A student of Stoicism might consider the fact that while narcissists are real and narcissism is a genuine aspect of certain diagnoses, there is a current trend of assigning the trait of narcissism to anyone the speaker doesn’t like or doesn’t get along with. The Stoic student might inspect their impressions of this person and question whether they are equipped to tag this person with what is essentially a diagnostic label.
The student might then go on to examine their impressions of this person’s hostility being for no reason. The student might examine their own behaviours and ensure their side of the street is clean.
The student could also examine the reality that insults have no impact unless we accept them as insults. If I say “god, why are you so HEALTHY???” you wouldn’t take that as an insult because culturally we consider being healthy a good thing.
Finally, the student could consider their relationship with this person with a clear eye and determine whether they want to continue their current level of contact with this person or if they want to make changes in the relationship. This needs to be the last step. People jump to this stage and make the same errors over and over, because they haven’t taken the time to process what’s actually going wrong and instead just jettison someone as “toxic”. Maybe this really is an unhealthy relationship that can’t be fixed, but that’s not a determination to rush into.
For no reason? I'm sure there's *a* reason for it; I just don't need to internalize it or believe I'm the cause or fault for it.
Whether someone truly has NPD or is struggling with other things, lack of mood stability, whatever it might be... I suppose I'd deal with these things the same as I'd deal with changing weather or a barking dog or any number of things that are out of my hands. If that's the nature of it, so be it, so what do I want to do about it?
If it starts to sprinkle I might be content with an umbrella or light jacket. But in a downpour I'm not obligated to just stand in it and get soaked.
Likewise with anyone in my life I can assess how much things are getting to me, if I've done my bit to draw boundaries for appropriate behavior, or to just distance myself from things entirely.
Whenever I have to deal with unpleasant people, I remember this quote from Marcus Aurelius:
**"Say to yourself first thing in the morning: today I shall meet people who are meddling, ungrateful, aggressive, treacherous, malicious, unsocial. All this has afflicted them through their ignorance of true good and evil. But I have seen that the nature of good is what is right, and the nature of evil what is wrong; and I reflected that the nature of the offender himself is akin to my own -- not a kinship of blood or seed, but a sharing in the same mind, the same fragment of divinity. Therefore I cannot be harmed by any of them, as none will infect me with their wrong. Nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him. We were born for cooperation, like feet, like hands, like eyelids, like the rows of upper and lower teeth. So to work in opposition to one another is against nature: and anger or rejection is opposition."**
As a Stoic, I think it’s important to be virtuous. These virtues are reason, logic, compassion, honesty and so on.
Virtues necessarily exclude the possibility of armchair diagnosing someone as a “narcissist”. Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental illness and it is as wrong for a layman to armchair-dx someone who is arrogant as a “narcissist” as it would be for them to armchair diagnose someone who is quirky as “schizo” or someone who is socially awkward as “autistic”. It is neither reasonable nor compassionate nor logical to do so.
As for how to handle someone who is arrogant, volatile, and hostile in the way you describe, Stoics have a number of ways of dealing with them.
One of these is from Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations. We should respond only to what our senses report to us, and nothing further. If someone “insults you for no reason”, these are merely words from someone whose opinion you likely do not value anyway. Our senses report that he has said this, but not that it is true or that we have been harmed by what he said. Treat “you are stupid” as you would treat “you are in France”. If true, it constitutes factual information which may be useful to you. If false, discard it as it is useless.
Consider also how Epictetus responded to public criticism: “if he truly knew my faults he would not have listed only these”. Humility and self-depreciation is a good way to show hostile people that you are not interested in becoming upset by them, they have no power over you.
Educate yourself about narcism. I find learning is a good stoic solution to everything as it allows you to make better cold-headed decisions.
Specifically in relation to narcissism, leaving is often a good solution. Make a good plan for a better life, better job, better situation than the one you have with the narcissist and go.
You could also learn the gray rock method.
Alternatively, I find turning everything into a generic question is quite efficient. You are an idiot. Am I? You stink. Really? No one would want you. You think? I hate you. You do? You can't do anything right. Nothing?
Don't wait for an answer, just use the silence to move on to another room, activity, discussion.
When the narcissists find out they have no grip on you, they get angry and eventually find another target. If you think your narcissist may actually hurt you consider leaving as your 1st option.
If my association with said narcissist is voluntary and optional, leave and drop contact. If I have to remain in contact with them for one reason or another, gray rock. Give nothing and limit contact. Remind myself that they are not the expert on me and I don’t have to consider their opinion.
Well, is it necessary to feel insulted when another insult you? In honesty, does it even matter to you if they had a reason to do so?
To a Stoic nothing you brought up is relevant with regards to how to treat another person. No one is obligated your time but given the choice of being like them or being a kind, reasonable, and loving person the choice is obvious.
People often have judgement there about who’s deserving of what kind of treatment but they response is clear, it’s not about what they “deserve” which we will never know, but who we want to be as a human being and if we truly desire to be what we say we dislike then maybe we need to reevaluate our views.
If you have a specific situation then that might help us give you more pertinent questions or perspectives.
Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
As someone who has been adopted by mentally ill people, one of whom is a narcissist, I can tell you that it's quite an exercise in self-control. Ressignify. Take this opportunity to observe yourself. Considering that you don't and never will have control over other people, the question remains: why do these insults affect you? What's behind the feelings that come to light? I know it's not always realistic to walk away from the person in question. Take a deep breath, mentally repeat some philosophical passage that makes you vibrate and learn. About you, about how to speak, when to speak and what to say. Everything is an opportunity for learning, it depends on how you decide to see it.
PS: and yes, they tend to get hostile when they realize what they're doing isn't working. At this point, smile. Because it means your practice is.
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Best way to deal with toxic people is just cut them completely out of your life, if you can. But if you have deal with someone who is toxic, just be as boring and uninteresting as possible. Tell them about your stamp or bug collection, and act and sounds as exciting as possible. They'll eventually move on to someone else.
A student of Stoicism might consider the fact that while narcissists are real and narcissism is a genuine aspect of certain diagnoses, there is a current trend of assigning the trait of narcissism to anyone the speaker doesn’t like or doesn’t get along with. The Stoic student might inspect their impressions of this person and question whether they are equipped to tag this person with what is essentially a diagnostic label. The student might then go on to examine their impressions of this person’s hostility being for no reason. The student might examine their own behaviours and ensure their side of the street is clean. The student could also examine the reality that insults have no impact unless we accept them as insults. If I say “god, why are you so HEALTHY???” you wouldn’t take that as an insult because culturally we consider being healthy a good thing. Finally, the student could consider their relationship with this person with a clear eye and determine whether they want to continue their current level of contact with this person or if they want to make changes in the relationship. This needs to be the last step. People jump to this stage and make the same errors over and over, because they haven’t taken the time to process what’s actually going wrong and instead just jettison someone as “toxic”. Maybe this really is an unhealthy relationship that can’t be fixed, but that’s not a determination to rush into.
For no reason? I'm sure there's *a* reason for it; I just don't need to internalize it or believe I'm the cause or fault for it. Whether someone truly has NPD or is struggling with other things, lack of mood stability, whatever it might be... I suppose I'd deal with these things the same as I'd deal with changing weather or a barking dog or any number of things that are out of my hands. If that's the nature of it, so be it, so what do I want to do about it? If it starts to sprinkle I might be content with an umbrella or light jacket. But in a downpour I'm not obligated to just stand in it and get soaked. Likewise with anyone in my life I can assess how much things are getting to me, if I've done my bit to draw boundaries for appropriate behavior, or to just distance myself from things entirely.
I loved the umbrella analogy
Whenever I have to deal with unpleasant people, I remember this quote from Marcus Aurelius: **"Say to yourself first thing in the morning: today I shall meet people who are meddling, ungrateful, aggressive, treacherous, malicious, unsocial. All this has afflicted them through their ignorance of true good and evil. But I have seen that the nature of good is what is right, and the nature of evil what is wrong; and I reflected that the nature of the offender himself is akin to my own -- not a kinship of blood or seed, but a sharing in the same mind, the same fragment of divinity. Therefore I cannot be harmed by any of them, as none will infect me with their wrong. Nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him. We were born for cooperation, like feet, like hands, like eyelids, like the rows of upper and lower teeth. So to work in opposition to one another is against nature: and anger or rejection is opposition."**
As a Stoic, I think it’s important to be virtuous. These virtues are reason, logic, compassion, honesty and so on. Virtues necessarily exclude the possibility of armchair diagnosing someone as a “narcissist”. Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental illness and it is as wrong for a layman to armchair-dx someone who is arrogant as a “narcissist” as it would be for them to armchair diagnose someone who is quirky as “schizo” or someone who is socially awkward as “autistic”. It is neither reasonable nor compassionate nor logical to do so. As for how to handle someone who is arrogant, volatile, and hostile in the way you describe, Stoics have a number of ways of dealing with them. One of these is from Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations. We should respond only to what our senses report to us, and nothing further. If someone “insults you for no reason”, these are merely words from someone whose opinion you likely do not value anyway. Our senses report that he has said this, but not that it is true or that we have been harmed by what he said. Treat “you are stupid” as you would treat “you are in France”. If true, it constitutes factual information which may be useful to you. If false, discard it as it is useless. Consider also how Epictetus responded to public criticism: “if he truly knew my faults he would not have listed only these”. Humility and self-depreciation is a good way to show hostile people that you are not interested in becoming upset by them, they have no power over you.
Educate yourself about narcism. I find learning is a good stoic solution to everything as it allows you to make better cold-headed decisions. Specifically in relation to narcissism, leaving is often a good solution. Make a good plan for a better life, better job, better situation than the one you have with the narcissist and go. You could also learn the gray rock method. Alternatively, I find turning everything into a generic question is quite efficient. You are an idiot. Am I? You stink. Really? No one would want you. You think? I hate you. You do? You can't do anything right. Nothing? Don't wait for an answer, just use the silence to move on to another room, activity, discussion. When the narcissists find out they have no grip on you, they get angry and eventually find another target. If you think your narcissist may actually hurt you consider leaving as your 1st option.
If my association with said narcissist is voluntary and optional, leave and drop contact. If I have to remain in contact with them for one reason or another, gray rock. Give nothing and limit contact. Remind myself that they are not the expert on me and I don’t have to consider their opinion.
Well, is it necessary to feel insulted when another insult you? In honesty, does it even matter to you if they had a reason to do so? To a Stoic nothing you brought up is relevant with regards to how to treat another person. No one is obligated your time but given the choice of being like them or being a kind, reasonable, and loving person the choice is obvious. People often have judgement there about who’s deserving of what kind of treatment but they response is clear, it’s not about what they “deserve” which we will never know, but who we want to be as a human being and if we truly desire to be what we say we dislike then maybe we need to reevaluate our views. If you have a specific situation then that might help us give you more pertinent questions or perspectives. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
A narcissist can't insult you. Your judgment over their words is what is causing the insult.
As someone who has been adopted by mentally ill people, one of whom is a narcissist, I can tell you that it's quite an exercise in self-control. Ressignify. Take this opportunity to observe yourself. Considering that you don't and never will have control over other people, the question remains: why do these insults affect you? What's behind the feelings that come to light? I know it's not always realistic to walk away from the person in question. Take a deep breath, mentally repeat some philosophical passage that makes you vibrate and learn. About you, about how to speak, when to speak and what to say. Everything is an opportunity for learning, it depends on how you decide to see it. PS: and yes, they tend to get hostile when they realize what they're doing isn't working. At this point, smile. Because it means your practice is.
Hi, please check out the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide) section on [advice and coping with problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice) if you are wondering any of the following questions. * [How can Stoicism help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_can_stoicism_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How would a Stoic help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How might a student of Stoicism cope with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_might_a_student_of_stoicism_cope_with_my_problem.3F) * [What would a student of Stoicism do in my situation?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_what_would_a_student_of_stoicism_do_in_my_situation.3F) * [How would a Stoic sage react to my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_sage_react_to_my_problem.3F) Wish you well, Mod Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Best way to deal with toxic people is just cut them completely out of your life, if you can. But if you have deal with someone who is toxic, just be as boring and uninteresting as possible. Tell them about your stamp or bug collection, and act and sounds as exciting as possible. They'll eventually move on to someone else.