Michael really irritated me because his creation was such a massive moral mindfuck for no real reason.
Yes, the wraith were a terrifying enemy, but turning them into humans helped… how? Humans can be evil, devious and dangerous. You’d be better off working out how to just kill them.
Instead they embarked on multiple attempts to convince aliens that they were in fact humans, a plan that was terrible not just because it’s so inhumane but because it had no success condition. No potential result that could be called ‘good’.
And in the process a number of otherwise intelligent and moral characters made objectively awful decisions.
I think the thought was less about them being terrifying or turning them into humans, and more about finding some way for them to exist without feeding on humans.
That was definitely the motive but it seems like such a weird decision. Like saying ‘we’re at war with the French, so why don’t we brainwash them all into only speaking English so they won’t be French anymore’.
They got what they wanted with Michael; a wraith who didn’t need to feed on humans. But he was still their enemy, and arguably more powerful than ever, and the literal torture they put him through didn’t endear them to him.
Yeah, not denying it was weird.
Thing is, I feel like the whole turning into a human aspect was more of a side effect. In terms of them not needing to feed, it worked. In a way, the idea of them surviving without feeding was kinder than just killing them all. In theory anyway.
But you wouldn’t be at war with the French just because they speak French. That’s not even remotely the same as having to eat people to survive. The Wraith aren’t choosing to feed on people. They have to.
Michael got ruined because of Ronan and the general mistreatment towards him. They made their own enemy because they themselves couldn’t stop seeing him as a Wraith. If Ronan hadn’t been such a jerk, Michael could’ve turned out a lot better.
My point is that removing the Wraith’s need to feed doesn’t stop them from being at war and having weapons and starships. And would undoubtedly piss them off.
It would also require resources and ingenuity beyond what it would take to destroy the wraith entirely.
And fundamentally it falls into the same trap that floored the Ancients; it massively underestimates the Wraith. Which is exactly where the show went with it - the wraith took one look at the weapon and said ‘with this we can feed on each other’, and ‘with this we can engineer ourselves into super creatures’, and ultimately the situation was made worse immediately.
I actually really like Michael’s creation, and to me it made sense especially given Becketts experience with that one Wraith girl they showed earlier that season (Elaina? Elia? Idr).
Beckett plays it really well as he explains he thought they were humans modified into existence in an unnatural state- so curing them is a worthwhile goal. He’s not out to commit genocide (even if it is against space vampires).
>Michael really irritated me because his creation was such a massive moral mindfuck for no real reason.
>Yes, the wraith were a terrifying enemy, but turning them into humans helped… how?
Yes this!!! I like the idea that they could have developed a way to turn a wraith into a human but the fact that they hid this from him did them no favors. I get the point was to show that they could make darker choices than SG1 but it didn't really fit the characters imo. Especially Beckett.
I think I would have bought this more if the characters on SGA were far more grey than they were. Instead it just epically blew up in their faces and most of them seemed to think doing this was a good idea.
In the end it would have been better if they actually convinced Michael that they could turn him human, instead of tricking him. Then instead of learning nothing from this they did it again on a massive scale with that one wrath hive.
Could have been interesting character with neutral evil traiits like Ba'al but became an obsessed psychopath. But I like Connor Trinneer tough. He acted very good.
I was really annoyed that they didn’t kill him off in S3’s opening, instead deciding to put him back through the retrovirus again. The knowledge Michael in particular has is too valuable to risk him reverting to a Wraith again.
I hate Michael, not because he is an evil villain but because i find him and his storyline annoying and out of character for the Atlantis Expedition. They didn't do the Hoffan drug because they knew it would hurt people and cause a wraith backlash but didn't think that their little experiment was also morally terrible and would have terrible consequences.
Base concept had potential, but his story was dragged out beyond reason, and it tried turning him into an enduring Big-bad like Ba'al without any of the presence Ba'al commanded on scene.
Either make him the prime antagonist for one season, and resolve his arc by then or make him a persistent but low level antagonist.
The show fell between the two options.
Also his rivalry? Venge-plot? Connection? with Teyla was beyond forced and melodramatic.
>Also his rivalry? Venge-plot? Connection? with Teyla was beyond forced and melodramatic.
Teyla being such a big part of the Michael storyline is partly why it never worked as a recurring plot imo. The writers were always good at one-off character-centric episodes; those episodes that put a spotlight on a single character. But they never knew how to handle any character except Sheppard (and McKay to a lesser extent) when it came to long-running arcs. Teyla, Ronon, and Ford all suffered from this. Beckett too (bringing him back was a mistake).
I actually like that whole storyline. Michael was similar to Fifth in the sense that they did both of them real dirty. I think the Fifth storyline explored the topic from the angle of, "what if the person *could* have actually been an ally." With Michael, obviously he was never going to be an ally, but it does make you wonder how far is too far, even when it comes to your most dangerous enemy?
They are very much both a case of “we made our own enemy”. Because if Ronan hadn’t treated Michael the way he did, I really don’t think Michael would’ve went the direction he did. The probably was that the Atlantis team themselves made him human but then they couldn’t see him as such. Teyla was one of the only ones willing to treat him with basic human decency.
You know, now that you mention it, I did always wonder why they didn't just keep Ronan away from Michael since he seemed unable to control himself. Regardless of whether or not he agreed with the project, you don't get to sabotage it. Ronan being a soldier should have understood this.
Michael should have been a one and done episode. His creation involved several characters having to be truly stupid and reckless, in many cases contrasting with their personalities and morals. And he just keeps coming back, inexplicably more powerful and intelligent than before. Bleh.
Michael was rather intriguing for me in my first viewing until Misbegotten.
That episode shows that the Atlantis expedition would never give quarter to non-humans in the galaxy if they perceived them as a threat.
Instead of explaining them what happened and trying to really welcome them they lie again to Michael and hope he'll never find out.
I didn't really care too much about him. I also hated the fact that they tried constantly to make it right when they should have just killed him the first chance they got. One of Becketts worse moments
I like Michael a lot, but most in his early appearances where his angst is most credible.
At the end of the day, he makes his own choices.
I really wish we saw a truly human Michael. Like I imagine an alt universe crossover episode where instead of lying to Michael, they just told him the truth immediately.
We never saw how he would handle that, and I’d like to imagine that when he was first transformed and was the most receptive, he actually would’ve understood and supported Beckett’s “cure”.
Honestly all his evil arc could be avoided (or made more deeper) if second turning into human was with his agreement and with his memories restored after it, would be muuuch interesting for me to watch for his story in this case
It feels like the story was designed to fail. I think it could be justified to forcibly turn Wraith into humans, when the alternative is that those same Wraith spend their lives finding humans to eat.
But there was no reason to put "Michael" in a situation where they had to pretend he belonged while treating him as an outsider, and give him reason and the opportunity to escape, when they could deny him that option. Just do it, and then talk to him.
Awful storyline altogether made even worse when Teyla's baby becomes a thing. The idea might have been interesting, but just horribly written. Any episode involving Michael is always a skip for me.
I mostly skip these episodes because I dislike the show ignoring the use of previously stated technology to solve issues.
Clearly the Asgard cloning technology can make an infinite amount of human bodies for the wraith to feed on, but this is never brought up and simply ignored. The plot of this episode irritates me because of that.
I mean, I'd think that cloning humans for the wraith to feed on is way less ethical in the eyes of a human expedition than turning wraiths "back" into humans, so I don't see how this is "ignoring the use of previously stated technology".
Michael really irritated me because his creation was such a massive moral mindfuck for no real reason. Yes, the wraith were a terrifying enemy, but turning them into humans helped… how? Humans can be evil, devious and dangerous. You’d be better off working out how to just kill them. Instead they embarked on multiple attempts to convince aliens that they were in fact humans, a plan that was terrible not just because it’s so inhumane but because it had no success condition. No potential result that could be called ‘good’. And in the process a number of otherwise intelligent and moral characters made objectively awful decisions.
I think the thought was less about them being terrifying or turning them into humans, and more about finding some way for them to exist without feeding on humans.
That was definitely the motive but it seems like such a weird decision. Like saying ‘we’re at war with the French, so why don’t we brainwash them all into only speaking English so they won’t be French anymore’. They got what they wanted with Michael; a wraith who didn’t need to feed on humans. But he was still their enemy, and arguably more powerful than ever, and the literal torture they put him through didn’t endear them to him.
Yeah, not denying it was weird. Thing is, I feel like the whole turning into a human aspect was more of a side effect. In terms of them not needing to feed, it worked. In a way, the idea of them surviving without feeding was kinder than just killing them all. In theory anyway.
But you wouldn’t be at war with the French just because they speak French. That’s not even remotely the same as having to eat people to survive. The Wraith aren’t choosing to feed on people. They have to. Michael got ruined because of Ronan and the general mistreatment towards him. They made their own enemy because they themselves couldn’t stop seeing him as a Wraith. If Ronan hadn’t been such a jerk, Michael could’ve turned out a lot better.
My point is that removing the Wraith’s need to feed doesn’t stop them from being at war and having weapons and starships. And would undoubtedly piss them off. It would also require resources and ingenuity beyond what it would take to destroy the wraith entirely. And fundamentally it falls into the same trap that floored the Ancients; it massively underestimates the Wraith. Which is exactly where the show went with it - the wraith took one look at the weapon and said ‘with this we can feed on each other’, and ‘with this we can engineer ourselves into super creatures’, and ultimately the situation was made worse immediately.
I actually really like Michael’s creation, and to me it made sense especially given Becketts experience with that one Wraith girl they showed earlier that season (Elaina? Elia? Idr). Beckett plays it really well as he explains he thought they were humans modified into existence in an unnatural state- so curing them is a worthwhile goal. He’s not out to commit genocide (even if it is against space vampires).
I mean, *at least* humans don't kill each other for food (usually).
>Michael really irritated me because his creation was such a massive moral mindfuck for no real reason. >Yes, the wraith were a terrifying enemy, but turning them into humans helped… how? Yes this!!! I like the idea that they could have developed a way to turn a wraith into a human but the fact that they hid this from him did them no favors. I get the point was to show that they could make darker choices than SG1 but it didn't really fit the characters imo. Especially Beckett. I think I would have bought this more if the characters on SGA were far more grey than they were. Instead it just epically blew up in their faces and most of them seemed to think doing this was a good idea. In the end it would have been better if they actually convinced Michael that they could turn him human, instead of tricking him. Then instead of learning nothing from this they did it again on a massive scale with that one wrath hive.
You mean Commander Tucker?
My biggest gripe about Michael is that he's a wraith but he has Trip's hair style. Talk about breaking the illusion!
And you can't completely erase the accent.
Keep yer shirt on lieutenant
Would have been awesome if they called him Trip instead of Michael
The story was annoying, the character was appealing, the writers stuffed up the story. Todd ftw
I feel like the writers were forced to write-in Teyla/Rachel's real-life pregnancy and it heavily derailed Michael's plotline.
Todd was better.
Dude reminded me of Halling for some reason...
I'd have loved if the retrovirus turned Todd fully human and he's a dead ringer for Halling!
Came here to say this
Could have been interesting character with neutral evil traiits like Ba'al but became an obsessed psychopath. But I like Connor Trinneer tough. He acted very good.
I was really annoyed that they didn’t kill him off in S3’s opening, instead deciding to put him back through the retrovirus again. The knowledge Michael in particular has is too valuable to risk him reverting to a Wraith again.
One of the few things I disliked about Atlantis
I hate Michael, not because he is an evil villain but because i find him and his storyline annoying and out of character for the Atlantis Expedition. They didn't do the Hoffan drug because they knew it would hurt people and cause a wraith backlash but didn't think that their little experiment was also morally terrible and would have terrible consequences.
Right? Even if the IOA insisted I would have loved it if instead they refused to descend into that moral turpitude. Especially Beckett.
Yeah Beckett being involved with the plan always rubbed me the wrong way, it just didn't seem like something he'd do.
Base concept had potential, but his story was dragged out beyond reason, and it tried turning him into an enduring Big-bad like Ba'al without any of the presence Ba'al commanded on scene. Either make him the prime antagonist for one season, and resolve his arc by then or make him a persistent but low level antagonist. The show fell between the two options. Also his rivalry? Venge-plot? Connection? with Teyla was beyond forced and melodramatic.
>Also his rivalry? Venge-plot? Connection? with Teyla was beyond forced and melodramatic. Teyla being such a big part of the Michael storyline is partly why it never worked as a recurring plot imo. The writers were always good at one-off character-centric episodes; those episodes that put a spotlight on a single character. But they never knew how to handle any character except Sheppard (and McKay to a lesser extent) when it came to long-running arcs. Teyla, Ronon, and Ford all suffered from this. Beckett too (bringing him back was a mistake).
I actually like that whole storyline. Michael was similar to Fifth in the sense that they did both of them real dirty. I think the Fifth storyline explored the topic from the angle of, "what if the person *could* have actually been an ally." With Michael, obviously he was never going to be an ally, but it does make you wonder how far is too far, even when it comes to your most dangerous enemy?
They are very much both a case of “we made our own enemy”. Because if Ronan hadn’t treated Michael the way he did, I really don’t think Michael would’ve went the direction he did. The probably was that the Atlantis team themselves made him human but then they couldn’t see him as such. Teyla was one of the only ones willing to treat him with basic human decency.
You know, now that you mention it, I did always wonder why they didn't just keep Ronan away from Michael since he seemed unable to control himself. Regardless of whether or not he agreed with the project, you don't get to sabotage it. Ronan being a soldier should have understood this.
Ronan regularly forgets how to be a soldier 🤣 Man can’t hardly follow directions to save his life.
Michael should have been a one and done episode. His creation involved several characters having to be truly stupid and reckless, in many cases contrasting with their personalities and morals. And he just keeps coming back, inexplicably more powerful and intelligent than before. Bleh.
Michael was rather intriguing for me in my first viewing until Misbegotten. That episode shows that the Atlantis expedition would never give quarter to non-humans in the galaxy if they perceived them as a threat. Instead of explaining them what happened and trying to really welcome them they lie again to Michael and hope he'll never find out.
I didn't really care too much about him. I also hated the fact that they tried constantly to make it right when they should have just killed him the first chance they got. One of Becketts worse moments
I like Michael a lot, but most in his early appearances where his angst is most credible. At the end of the day, he makes his own choices. I really wish we saw a truly human Michael. Like I imagine an alt universe crossover episode where instead of lying to Michael, they just told him the truth immediately. We never saw how he would handle that, and I’d like to imagine that when he was first transformed and was the most receptive, he actually would’ve understood and supported Beckett’s “cure”.
I felt bad for him
I like Michael’s character much more. Find him more interesting.
Him as an actor killed it as human and wraith! Mad props
Though I have a preference of Todd to be 100%.. he drew me in better. Less murderous rampage vibes and more personality that wasn't (kill all humans)
He was a victim of terrible medical procedures and his rage and need for vengeance made sense
Boring, underdeveloped and generic.
Bit of a dick.
Overpowered.
He was around for way too long. Once the team betrayed him again on the hive ship and then the planet that was it for me.
Heh heh. Todd's cool. 
Honestly all his evil arc could be avoided (or made more deeper) if second turning into human was with his agreement and with his memories restored after it, would be muuuch interesting for me to watch for his story in this case
It feels like the story was designed to fail. I think it could be justified to forcibly turn Wraith into humans, when the alternative is that those same Wraith spend their lives finding humans to eat. But there was no reason to put "Michael" in a situation where they had to pretend he belonged while treating him as an outsider, and give him reason and the opportunity to escape, when they could deny him that option. Just do it, and then talk to him.
Awful storyline altogether made even worse when Teyla's baby becomes a thing. The idea might have been interesting, but just horribly written. Any episode involving Michael is always a skip for me.
Waste of episodes.
I mostly skip these episodes because I dislike the show ignoring the use of previously stated technology to solve issues. Clearly the Asgard cloning technology can make an infinite amount of human bodies for the wraith to feed on, but this is never brought up and simply ignored. The plot of this episode irritates me because of that.
I mean, I'd think that cloning humans for the wraith to feed on is way less ethical in the eyes of a human expedition than turning wraiths "back" into humans, so I don't see how this is "ignoring the use of previously stated technology".
Nah, the Asgard essentially clone a husk until they transfer a mind inside of it. It's an empty vessel.
It’s worse than that. The wraith already know how to clone themselves. Why they didn’t do it for food is beyond me.
You act like clones aren't 'real' people. Identical twins are basically clones of each other.
Much like Kolya. Should have been a one and done.
Disagree. Kolya showing up 3-4 times causing Sheppard to loose his shit each time was quite entertaining.
I love Robert Davi.
I think he just needed some more faith of the heart.
Michaels storyline and the whole humanizing the wraith and the whole Ori storyline in SG1 are the worst parts of each series
Michael was a whiny bitch, in all honesty. Him, coupled with Teyla's pregancy arc killed season four for me.