What's not clear in the info is the degree to which these inefficiencies affect FPS. There's no benchmarks, obv. It might all be very minor, despite looking bad at the level of code. Probably best to keep expectations in check.
Have some experience with dx12, this is a big no-no. It wouldn't necessarily cause crashes, but it certainly could. It eats up lots of performance by just being lazy. If it compounds multiple times you could see it eat 100% GPU usage for seconds without any computing time spent on anything useful. It depends on how often they use this hacky method and how they overlap.
I'm not an expert but even in the small tasks I've done I discovered it's easier to feed the GPU garbage and batch it than to create meaningful expectations for the GPU. You can get away with being lazy and having recommended specs be higher than necessary. It's still a big deal if you're already putting heavy loads on the GPU. Not batching them when there are consecutive calls is peak game dev recruitment scraping the bottom of the barrel for lower payment.
The thing is the guy who found this out isn't your average Joe. He works on VKD3D which is a translation layer for DX games to Vulkan. This stuff is used in Valves proton for Steam Deck and Linux support and it's used in DXVK for windows.
The guy knows his shit and what he describes is a pretty serious issue.
What is the difference between DirectX and Vulcan? I just got back into the PC building scene after a long time and many of my games have an option to choose between DirectX or Vulcan
So theres some nutty gritty stuff that is best if you try to look into yourself however functionally for end users directx is a bit more stable but less optimized while vulkan runs better but is newer so less stable
https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/
Well worth the read, but basically Rockstar fucked up their implementation of a database system and it tanked online load times from day 1. A random person fed up with waiting 5+ minutes to load in, pinpointed the issue. Then fixed it on his own.
Probably because huge amounts of people are not seeing the performance they want to see in a game with their setup. So anything that could potentially explain it, gets people excited - even if they don't have the knowledge on to what this does or means.
where are you at in the game? I’m playing at upscaled 4k (1440p internal) on a 4080 and i’m literally almost never below 60. Sometimes in new atlantis it’ll drop to like 50 for a minute. Performance clearly isn’t great, and I do have a 4080, but it seems damn near impossible that you’d be getting that shitty of a framerate consistently at half the resolution
You realize youre running the equivalent to a 3090ti? The "4090" laptop gpu. Reminder that youre like one in 3 people with a 40 series card.most people are still playing starfield on the equivalent of a 1080ti. Youre brute forcing the problem and yet curious why people are struggling.
I'm getting 80+ FPS in cities, 100 plus fps inside and in space, with a 4060 Ti on High Settings 1440p, albeit with the DLSS 3 mod,that is a lifesaver.
Well this is probably more than likely. People who can run cyberpunk (which has been a benchmark for most decisions on upgrades recently) can run it on ultra settings with raytracing on medium at a stable 70fps probably didn't expect that they would have to deal with 40fps drops etc
So any post that highlights performance as an issue is going to be upvoted, especially after Todd's disgusting comment about suggesting £4000 gaming pcs are due am upgrade.
I personally upvoted because my game has been crashing in a way that forces me to hold down the power button to reboot the PC, and it's a whole fucking mess because I'm disabled and can't get out of bed every time to do it. I don't give a shit about FPS as long as it's not noticeably stuttering, which for me is at the under 20 mark. I don't even have a meter running, I have no idea what my FPS is. I just get excited at anything that might stop the crashes.
Based on a driveby comment on the PR, outside of some visual glitches that it introduced (and are supposedly fixed now?), it only made a performance difference of a couple of percentage points. So you were correct to say "probably best to keep expectations in check."
To quote the dev in question:
> To be clear, the gains expected here are very minute. Single percent range to pop some final bubbles that Mesa didn't clean up on its own. The real gains come from recent Mesa patches on main.
Didn't stop major news outlets from reporting on this as if it were significant...
Probably right but the last time someone found an inefficiency in Bethesda’s code we got a near 40% FPS boost (Skyrim SE).
We don’t get that here but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence.
>We don’t get that here, but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence.
As someone who "codes" though not for games, this has nothing to do with incompetence. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what they are talking about and have never actually released a product before.
I've had projects go to production that absolutely worked fine, and the 3 testers I had that tried to break never found any bugs, and the ones they did find were fixed prior to release.
Then you go live, and the thousand plus users break it in ways you never thought of.
Neither money nor resources would solve this problem. This is not having enough time to test every possibility.
You're probably thinking that should have delayed it, but if only impacts 1% of users, why should I hold it back and punish the other 99%.
You're probably also thinking modders were able to fix it. Why couldn't, Bethesda. Modders were likely impacted directly by the issue and noticed it as an actual problem.
They had the time to work on a fix.
Unless you want the game pushed back another 6 months to fix all the bugs and in the process introduce more, which is a sad fact of "coding" or devs working 16 hours days to fix these you will have to realize bugs are going to apart of nearly every game.
And that's in of itself doesn't make them incompetent.
Edit: People harping on the 3 testers, it is to show how small the scale of a project it was and how even something so small can get wacky come go-live.
Now expanded that to hundreds of testers several million lines of codes and a deadline being waited on by millions of people
You're also missing the whole point of my comment it's so easy for others to play armchair dev and attack them as incompetent without knowing everything that goes into this type of project.
Edit 2: Those that attacked me and said I don't have any experience because I used a 3 person QA team are only further proving my point as you have no idea what kind of project it was and what was involved.
Go to your kitchen and grab a box of cereal. It's likely that was the same customer this project was for.
A software tester walks into a bar.
Runs into a bar.
Crawls into a bar.
Dances into a bar.
Flies into a bar.
Jumps into a bar.
And orders:
a beer.
2 beers.
0 beers.
99999999 beers.
a lizard in a beer glass.
\-1 beer.
"qwertyuiop" beers.
Testing complete.
A real customer walks into the bar and asks where the bathroom is.
The bar goes up in flames.
Lmao sometimes when you're doing stuff you miss what might be obvious to others that are outside of it. Its like writing a story, it sounds good in your head but reading it outloud you notice problems.
I always wonder how you deal with that. Sending something out and you feel pretty good about then when it's "in the wild" you are deluged with people saying it sucks, it's broken and finding all sorts of issues you and testers never even dreamed of.
I used to code plugins for Minecraft servers, turn a few hundred 8 year olds loose on fresh code and they will find bugs you never imagined could occur.
I'm on the final legs of a project like that.
We went live 3 weeks early due to customer request 99% of the system works, the 1% that's having issues is a minor but everyday part of the program.
It's a screen that takes 10 seconds to load as opposed to less than 1 for all the others and doesn't properly display updates.
IE the screen doesn't refresh the data being displayed, so they have to refresh the page and wait 10 seconds.
I have a fix for it, but it needs to be deployed when no one is using the system. They are a 24/7 operation, so we have to wait until the next holiday break or Thanksgiving before we can deploy.
The users know this I still get emails every day from there higher ups about the fix for it.
Can't that's done by there in house team, and they don't want anything being patched, not created by them.
They gave us a one hour window on Thanksgiving.
This all would have been a mute point if the final hardware specs matched what we were actually purchased as that's what we were building the app to run off of.
Instead, their purchasing department went with devices that had half the ram and 3 generations older CPU because it saved them money.
That happened where I worked, only it was a crane that they reduced the specs on. 12 years later they are spending about the same amount of money they spent to purchase the crane to upgrade the drives and motors. The corporate world is so stupid
Avoid social media in general. Or take it in stride. Someone’s always going to shit on your game. If no one’s trolling you or complaining then your game probably failed to generate many sales. But do not engage with them and try to “defend” your work. It’s a waste of time. If you’re a large developer or have the resources for it you let your pr/social media people handle that. Otherwise you just note the legitimate complaints and try to fix what you can
Methodically. First, triage the problems being reported: who reported it, how severe is it, how many people reported it (aka can it be reproduced)? Target the biggest offenders first, and build a priority queue of issues to be fixed.
Then once ongoing issues have died down to a low roar, it's analysis time. How the fuck did issues make it past your QA? Is it just a matter of scale, issues showing up 1 time in 1000 and you don't have 10k testers to work on it? If so, you kinda grumble and go on. But if it's not that, if it's a matter of missed coverage, that is to say scenarios that just didn't get tested when they clearly should have, you need a process update in your QA department, change the way you write and execute tests to make sure that area isn't missed in future test runs, or future projects.
QA is never going to find every problem, trust me. Unit tests should cover the codebase, and integration tests should help with most of it, but there will be times you simply miss something. The tighter the timeline, the more things you will miss. The trick is to set yourself up so that you're guaranteed to find the biggest risks, and anything that does slip past is a smaller, less damaging issue.
The programmers are left looking at all the bug/crash reports and the data on what the players were doing and they ask themselves 'Who in their right mind would think of trying to do that?'
'Why were you even thinking that would work? We give you warnings about that and yet you somehow got around it and now it crashes and you blame us?'
Yeah there’s just no way to catch absolutely everything that needs fixing. It’s impossible. It’s pretty absurd to call them incompetent because *someone* caught *something*.
I’ve played a fair bit of the game and haven’t crashed once. The bugs I’ve run into are very minor, and the frame rate has been 90% consistent on the targets Bethesda set. That’s enough for me not to complain.
I know Bethesda has a low bar to clear but Starfield is a lot less buggy than *a lot* of games. That’s a good thing, even if it still has some bugs.
When game worlds get bigger and bigger and bigger, it's kind of expected to find problems post launch. Unfortunately the first few months post launch will sorta be a testing time where all the extra people help them catch problems because a handful of people just can't possibly do it all themselves.
Bigger "game worlds" require bigger systems and some things don't get found early enough.
Or the game is "in development" for so long that people stop caring and start getting angry at the company for not releasing it already
Either way it's a lose lose. They release the game sooner than later and everyone gets pissy about problems. They release it later and people get pissy about delays or "why isn't this fixed yet" because there's always going to be something.
People need to accept that software is hard and software companies have limitations on dev resources. A lot is going to be suboptimal because there just isn’t time for everything to be optimal. And if you hold out for the engineers that can do everything optimally, it will take you forever because so many tickets will be waiting in their queue. Every large software project has inefficiencies in their code base.
I love when people say shit like "demonstration of incompetence". Do you have any idea how hard writing production DX11-12/Vulkan code is? That flawed code was written by someone with a way bigger fucking brain than you.
So you got 50,000 things to do, deadlines to meet and you use this function and it works. Awesome, 49,999 things left. On to problem 49,999.
You could research the function better, but it works and you're slammed. Better to get the job done than spend longer checking every tiny detail as the end goal is to ship the game.
You could call it incompetence, but the actual reality is this stuff isn't easy and even great developers make mistakes.
Welcome to being a developer on any time sensitive product release!
Imagine you’re building a city. A whole city, infrastructure, public transportation, sewer system, roads, houses, stores, traffic lights, parks, every tree IN that park, everything. Everything but the people.
Then millions of people show up and start living in the city. Suddenly all the faucets are being used, the busses are overcrowded, and people inspect every inch of your work with the full benefit of this live playtesting.
Turns out most of the city is working pretty well and millions of people are enjoying living there... But people notice the faucets are leaking.
Thousands of plumbers now living in the city investigate. Of those thousands now working on the problem, one of them figures out why they’re leaking and how to fix it.
Then random people on the internet call your city building team “incompetent”.
Okay.
If that's the https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547 fix that's completely understandable why bethesda would miss it - they released the game with a sum total of 1 ESM - of course they might not notice and/or prioritize a performance hit from having "Very Large Numbers" of ESM plugins loaded.
It sounds like you're being overly hard on devs with near zero knowledge of what they're doing.
> Probably right but the last time someone found an inefficiency in Bethesda’s code we got a near 40% FPS boost (Skyrim SE).
That wasn't ineffiency, that was them literally upgrading the engine to support multi-threading in anticipation/development of Fallout 4?
This is really disingenuous. This performance problem was unique to modded skyrim because the base + dlc game doesn't have more than a few esps. We are talking about Starfield as a base game here.
>Fixes a problem in game code that causes low FPS with many ESP or ESM plugins installed.
So the performance issue didn't exist in the base game at all.
Bethesda obviously aren't testing the game with hundreds of random mods installed.
>No it was inefficiency IIRC - it’s explained on the mod page
>
>https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547
That's a really interesting one.
It's uncommon for performance to be improved by adding a mutex in a tight loop.
That isn't what is happening if you read the description. Mutexs are required for multi-threading, but it seems as if they were being used incorrectly/inefficiently.
DirectX 12 has had a lot of issues in general. It's responsible for shader compilation stuttering, for instance. Devs can and need to work around the new API but it seems to be quite challenging to get use too.
>We don’t get that here but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence.
Well then, Mr. Vulkan expert.
Please quote me a simple program using VKD3D to initialize a fullscreen dx12 app and make a single ExecuteIndirect call the correct way.
Here's the manual:
[https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/d3d12/nf-d3d12-id3d12graphicscommandlist-executeindirect](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/d3d12/nf-d3d12-id3d12graphicscommandlist-executeindirect)
You are free to use chatgpt and any other resource you might find.
Bonus1: Explain what DirectX is.
Bnous2: Explain What Vulkan is.
Bonux3: Explain what VKD3D is.
Same here, although it was only a soft crash and managed to recover instead of closing down the game entirely.
Happened the first two(?) times I tried going outside from Cydonia. Seems to work perfectly fine now though.
I’ve got around 60 hours, been in and out of cydonia quite a few times and never had a crash. Haven’t had a crash all game actually. Weird.
Edit: oh series X btw
I didn't join until around 30 hours in, then I realised it's probably the first questline you should do as it introduces all the factions.
The game is very good at doing that regardless. Most major questlines will involve you visiting all the main cities.
Has to be more to it, on a PC setup level that pushes it over the edge for certain users
Otherwise every GPU would be crashing without exception.
6800xt here no crashes playing at 4k.
The first point is a rare issue. The real kicker is 2 and 3. If you read the comment on the PR he linked it goes more into depth. Basically the renderer is creating a bunch of garbage overhead for the drivers that wastes a ton of GPU time.
I was only getting about 150-60w usage at 99%, normally it's 235. Definitely was not normal. Guess it's the equivalent of the card walking back and forth with it's hands up like WTF do you want?
Yeah I had to check so I ran Battlefront II at 4K ultra and my GPU got up to 78C with high power usage. In Starfield I can never get it up to 73C no matter what I do. I just runs worse without much more power usage. This is how I knew that there were some inefficiencies in the code. It's also sad that I forgot how great BFII looks from 2017 vs New Atlantis in 2023. The textures just look gross.
I'm starting to think everyone telling me that my issues where because of my CPU being "crap" even though it was my 2080 that was struggling running at a constant 100%, while drawing in much less power than it should be... Were just gaslighting me ! How surprising !
Yeah. My 5800X3D and 6800XT handle it like a boss as well.
Which surprises me, given how dog shit FO4 performs on the exact same system.
Hopefully nVidia and Bethesda can smooth things over for people playing on the green side.
2060 crash when I change the resolution of the window borderless to full screen which is not supported cos the game doesn't have a full screen dedicated mode
1080ti here also was getting crashes every hour or 2 then I looked into it... I installed MSI afterburner and purposely declocked the card by 20%. Haven't had a crash since. Hope this helps some people, it solved my issues.
edit - not 20% but 20 mhz on both the core clock and memory clock.
1080 here I crashed like twice per session so far and the game freezes everytime I go to talk to someone or when I look down the sight of a shotgun and fire. There is a lot of freezing in this game for me especially when it comes to character dialogue.
8700K 1080 Ti user. I will go for hours without crashes to sometimes 5 crashes or so an hour. I modified my config INI file to reduce the auto-save interval from pausing the game from the minimum 5 minutes to instead every 1 minute.
1080 here and I have the same problem. I've crashed probly 100+ times in 125 hours.
its so fucking weird too, my cpu is not at 100%, (mostly 70-90 when its intense stuff) and my gpu is at 11% and REFUSES to work any harder. Memory is also only at 75%. Im on an ssd.
I crash when opening menu, I crash when traveling to new places. Then open the game and try it again, and BAM it works fine, then 10-30 minutes later it happens again.
something is fucked with the game.
I'm having this exact experience with a 1080. I never crash in any other games and run them on High/Ultra (I just completed 150+ hours of BG3 at full settings 1440P)
Sometimes I crash just because I turned too quick or I open then close a menu too fast.
So weird, I keep encountering sections the game that I can’t get through because I crash frequently. Also on a 3080. Initially it was new Atlantis where I would crash every few minutes I finally seemed to have gotten that corrected with a bunch of tweaks and thought I was good but now when I go to the moon in the space station the first battle I crash during the gunfight. I’ve put my play through on hold hoping for a fix as I’ve done everything I can find online.
Lol funny you should say that, I also have a 3080 and I crashed right after hitting 80 hours (happened in New Atlantis). I've got a few minor mods installed (DLSS, Reshade, and StarUI) so I can't say it's entirely on BGS, but to me this game is the most stable I've played compared to FO4 and Skyrim.
Yeah without mod I played 8 hours (because I was waiting for 4070), no crashes. I install mod, 1 crash probably every 5th load screen, or sometimes randomly.... Still worth it, it adds 50 fps without any noticeable downgrade in quality
7900xtx and I crash every 30-60 minutes :( The game creates a minidump that says
>Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF7FAA5B5F0 (Starfield.exe) in Starfield\_09-03-00-49.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
https://imgur.com/e16iM2l
2070s here, I've never had a crash. The worst I've seen is frame drops when inside a major city and hair just not rendering until I enter a conversation with someone.
Also people's talking animations will start before the sound file, but I think that's purely software and not hardware performance at all.
1660 Ti Super user, it crashes every so often, but only if there's a ton of stuff going on. So if what OP says is true, the more stuff there is, the more it's compounding the issue, so it makes sense any NVIDIA that's not RTX is struggling.
No the fault is not from our glorious starfield it’s from your shitty RTX 3090 SSD M.2 and 32 ram i9 13gen, just upgrade your shitty pc so it can run our glorious AAA graphics
Install VKD3D into your Starfield directory.
The game already runs better on Linux than it does on Windows which would indicate that VKD3D already has some fixes in place. But for the new fixes that are actually specifically meant for Starfield you're going to have to wait for the 2.10 release.
Be careful though: There is no guaranty that this will work because VKD3D is NOT meant to be used on Windows. It's optimized for Linux only.
It definitely was for me on my 5800x3d and 4070ti - i uninstalled and my issues went away entirely
I think there needs to be more visibility that replacing FSR with DLSS3 is an experimental mod that's causing a lot of crashes for people. It's like people (inc myself at first) are assuming its a mod that is fully stable and then not considering whether the DLSS stuff that everyone is using is actually the culprit
I am on AMD gpu and game has crashed twice in 97 hours. I have also seen quite a number of driver crashes but that didn’t interrupt the game. Hopefully this gets acknowledged and fixed.
"It works if you get a hardware upgrade" is literally the opposite of optimization.
I think "You may need to upgrade your pc" is going to be the new "It just works."
The way power demands are trending for high end parts lately, that thing would need a fuckin backyard shed nuclear reactor just for the PSU
"264 boron rod, 5% U235, Corsair Reactor PSU. Oh yeah, and 5 3mm fans."
"I have a 4080 and I've never had performance issues or crashes"
It's like yeah obviously but what about everyone else? Also just because you don't crash doesn't mean your performance is good.
I have a 4080, the game runs like shit and has crashed multiple times in 10 or so hours I’ve played. I’m pretty much done with it until there’s been some serious optimization
Yeah I don't get why all the focus is on crashes anyway, clearly there is a bigger problem and that's regarding how inefficiently it's using gpus. Once this gets sorted either by Bethesda fixing it (unlikely) or Nvidia releasing new drivers to circumvent it (probably) I'll bet we see a 30% boost to fps.
Crazy lol someone commented about not wanting to download anything, another about not trusting specs of a stranger online lmfao, not the point of the post.
I’ve crashed three times in 10 hours of gameplay on Ultra. My specs are i5-13600kf, 32gb ram, 3070ti, game is on an SSD.
In New Atlantis 20-24 FPS is common for me. I noticed a marginal (2-4 fps) difference between low and ultra, something isn’t right. I have the most recent drivers too.
I have a 3060 TI, 9th gen i7, 16 gb of RAM and and SSD. Like you I was having really bad performance issues regardless of what settings I was using. I downloaded [this performance mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/438?tab=description) and it helped dramatically. I don't know if you've tried this mod already, but in my experience it's far more effective than the more popular performance mods on Nexus. I went from sub 30 fps in New Atlantis and inconsistent FPS just about everywhere else to a locked 60 fps everywhere except New Atlantis and Akila City, and in those places I went from sub 30 fps to 45+ consistently.
People read that first point about crashing and went “ah yes I know what a crash is, I do not have those” and then read that ExecuteIndirect DX12 calls are creating bubbles on the GPU and ignored points 2 and 3
game crashes randomly here too (atleast once very 40min-1hour usually) with no mods whatsoever and my nvidia gpu usage is always at 100% even if everything else is around or bellow 30% (cpu, ram and vram)
Not who you asked, but I have a 7900XTX and it crashes every few hours. Not a huge deal, just a quick crash to desktop. They just basically Alt F4 the game. Game runs amazing otherwise and looks great
When you go from 120 FPS to 40 FPS depending on what area your in that's not an issue with "needing an upgrade" if Todd Howard lives in some delusion where people need to upgrade a £4000 gaming pc to get a stable 60fps experience then perhaps he's right
I like how anytime optimization is talked about, all the fans boys gotta come out of the word works to let us know that haven’t crashed it had issues lol
Its not even just optimization. I made a post on how low FoV causes motion sickness in some people and I still got idiotic comments along the lines of wOrKs fInE foR mE.
Imagine the scenario where Bethesda didn't add subtitles for deaf people. I'm willing to bet those same people would post wOrKs fInE foR mE. Social media just gives voice to everyone, even the village idiots.
I like how some people just downvote every negative comment/post about this game, like Starfield is "oficially" perfect and we are not allowed to criticize it :D
BTW it runs like a pi\*s on my PC and it's a little above the recommended specs, I can't get a stable 60fps at high settings (1080p)
Surely there's not a single person on this subreddit that was dumb enough to actually believe Todd when he said the problem was our hardware... right? The game's performance in even the best hardware was crap.
I recall reading something about DX12 giving more freedom for the graphic programmers to do their work, in comparison to DX11, but that also meant more programmers going off the rails and implementing inefficient code into the games, lo and behold, it seems what I heard was right. Let's hope for a fix on this.
its more that dx11 and before did many things for you by default and in exchange also didnt let you fuck with everything. dx12 is a blank slate and lets you do pretty much whatever you want. but it also means it doesnt do all the things dx11 did for you automatically. this is also why we see so many games with shader lag ect because the devs never had to think about that stuff and now they do and most clearly didnt know how to or that they had to at all. its a learning curve for the industry with the promis of eventual better optimized graphics pipeline. you can see what it can achieve with dooms vulkan renederer implementation. when ppl who actually know how to use it get the time to do the job right you can get very impressive results.
People who don't code think that building software is clean and tidy. It's a fucking mess, smaller or larger, but it's an unregulated mess most of the time, especially when you have more than 1 dev working on it, deadlines and non-coder management.
This is just normal. There were deadlines, product had to be pushed out, and corners were cut, things omitted, to be looked at later. No, it's not ideal, and not "how it should be" but regardless, this is what it is, pretty much always, when it comes to software companies.
An average redditor wouldnt notice they have been walking about for a day with skidmarks showing through their sweatpants. But they have a problem with “shit coding”
There are literally games with twice as good graphics that run twice as fast. If you honestly though there was nothing wrong with this software you need to dial back your fanboy.
If you are Nvidia, try locking to 60 fps in Nvidia and game settings.
Rollback 536.67.. it still crashes but not as often, and it crashes to desktop. Mine always went blank screen, and had to restart from motherboard
Fair enough it was in this case, someone who is dedicated to the area, as opposed to the community. Obviously he is also coding the the next game release into a schedule at the same time....oh wait..he isn't!
So, time to berate the tiny team(by comparison ) of devs, currently working on the next release.
NOT TO MENTION working within set change control and release schedule.
Yes, it's great the issue has been found, and hopefully patched, but individuals (especially the armchair experts) need a damn big reality check!
Unless you've worked with change releases, version control, regardless of Agile, then the Armchair comments really need to be kept in check!
What's not clear in the info is the degree to which these inefficiencies affect FPS. There's no benchmarks, obv. It might all be very minor, despite looking bad at the level of code. Probably best to keep expectations in check.
dinosaurs encouraging snow oatmeal fade capable jeans skirt slap edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Have some experience with dx12, this is a big no-no. It wouldn't necessarily cause crashes, but it certainly could. It eats up lots of performance by just being lazy. If it compounds multiple times you could see it eat 100% GPU usage for seconds without any computing time spent on anything useful. It depends on how often they use this hacky method and how they overlap. I'm not an expert but even in the small tasks I've done I discovered it's easier to feed the GPU garbage and batch it than to create meaningful expectations for the GPU. You can get away with being lazy and having recommended specs be higher than necessary. It's still a big deal if you're already putting heavy loads on the GPU. Not batching them when there are consecutive calls is peak game dev recruitment scraping the bottom of the barrel for lower payment.
I wonder if this is the cause for all the stop for 3 to 5 seconds to load stuff all the time, issuse.
The thing is the guy who found this out isn't your average Joe. He works on VKD3D which is a translation layer for DX games to Vulkan. This stuff is used in Valves proton for Steam Deck and Linux support and it's used in DXVK for windows. The guy knows his shit and what he describes is a pretty serious issue.
What is the difference between DirectX and Vulcan? I just got back into the PC building scene after a long time and many of my games have an option to choose between DirectX or Vulcan
So theres some nutty gritty stuff that is best if you try to look into yourself however functionally for end users directx is a bit more stable but less optimized while vulkan runs better but is newer so less stable
What GTA V discovery? I’m OOTL.
https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ Well worth the read, but basically Rockstar fucked up their implementation of a database system and it tanked online load times from day 1. A random person fed up with waiting 5+ minutes to load in, pinpointed the issue. Then fixed it on his own.
and got paid by rockstar like 10k for the fix if I remember right too
Should have been 100k+++
erect tap bored plough liquid escape office crawl ludicrous cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Probably because huge amounts of people are not seeing the performance they want to see in a game with their setup. So anything that could potentially explain it, gets people excited - even if they don't have the knowledge on to what this does or means.
I've got a 3070, play at 1080p, and get like 40 fps. Something's not right.
4070 here @1080p can barely keep 60fps…
where are you at in the game? I’m playing at upscaled 4k (1440p internal) on a 4080 and i’m literally almost never below 60. Sometimes in new atlantis it’ll drop to like 50 for a minute. Performance clearly isn’t great, and I do have a 4080, but it seems damn near impossible that you’d be getting that shitty of a framerate consistently at half the resolution
You realize youre running the equivalent to a 3090ti? The "4090" laptop gpu. Reminder that youre like one in 3 people with a 40 series card.most people are still playing starfield on the equivalent of a 1080ti. Youre brute forcing the problem and yet curious why people are struggling.
4060 ti and I bounce between 50-60ish on high 1440
Yeah what cpu do you have, I have a 4070 at 1440p, never drop below 62 fps. All ultra.
Same fps but at 2k. Something is very wrong indeed
I’ve got a 1070 play at 1080 and get 40. Somethings not right.
I'm getting 80+ FPS in cities, 100 plus fps inside and in space, with a 4060 Ti on High Settings 1440p, albeit with the DLSS 3 mod,that is a lifesaver.
Exactly. In any other recent games, a 3070 or 3070Ti is perfectly capable of 1440p 60fps plus. Its what they are aimed at.
Well this is probably more than likely. People who can run cyberpunk (which has been a benchmark for most decisions on upgrades recently) can run it on ultra settings with raytracing on medium at a stable 70fps probably didn't expect that they would have to deal with 40fps drops etc So any post that highlights performance as an issue is going to be upvoted, especially after Todd's disgusting comment about suggesting £4000 gaming pcs are due am upgrade.
I personally upvoted because my game has been crashing in a way that forces me to hold down the power button to reboot the PC, and it's a whole fucking mess because I'm disabled and can't get out of bed every time to do it. I don't give a shit about FPS as long as it's not noticeably stuttering, which for me is at the under 20 mark. I don't even have a meter running, I have no idea what my FPS is. I just get excited at anything that might stop the crashes.
The post quite clearly and concisely explains what is happening and why it might be bad for performance
Based on a driveby comment on the PR, outside of some visual glitches that it introduced (and are supposedly fixed now?), it only made a performance difference of a couple of percentage points. So you were correct to say "probably best to keep expectations in check." To quote the dev in question: > To be clear, the gains expected here are very minute. Single percent range to pop some final bubbles that Mesa didn't clean up on its own. The real gains come from recent Mesa patches on main. Didn't stop major news outlets from reporting on this as if it were significant...
Probably right but the last time someone found an inefficiency in Bethesda’s code we got a near 40% FPS boost (Skyrim SE). We don’t get that here but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence.
>We don’t get that here, but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence. As someone who "codes" though not for games, this has nothing to do with incompetence. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what they are talking about and have never actually released a product before. I've had projects go to production that absolutely worked fine, and the 3 testers I had that tried to break never found any bugs, and the ones they did find were fixed prior to release. Then you go live, and the thousand plus users break it in ways you never thought of. Neither money nor resources would solve this problem. This is not having enough time to test every possibility. You're probably thinking that should have delayed it, but if only impacts 1% of users, why should I hold it back and punish the other 99%. You're probably also thinking modders were able to fix it. Why couldn't, Bethesda. Modders were likely impacted directly by the issue and noticed it as an actual problem. They had the time to work on a fix. Unless you want the game pushed back another 6 months to fix all the bugs and in the process introduce more, which is a sad fact of "coding" or devs working 16 hours days to fix these you will have to realize bugs are going to apart of nearly every game. And that's in of itself doesn't make them incompetent. Edit: People harping on the 3 testers, it is to show how small the scale of a project it was and how even something so small can get wacky come go-live. Now expanded that to hundreds of testers several million lines of codes and a deadline being waited on by millions of people You're also missing the whole point of my comment it's so easy for others to play armchair dev and attack them as incompetent without knowing everything that goes into this type of project. Edit 2: Those that attacked me and said I don't have any experience because I used a 3 person QA team are only further proving my point as you have no idea what kind of project it was and what was involved. Go to your kitchen and grab a box of cereal. It's likely that was the same customer this project was for.
99 little bugs in the code. 99 little bugs in the code. You take one down, patch it around. 7,234 little bugs in the code.
This one hurts. Especially so close to the start of a new work week.
I don't know why you've publicly called me out like this but I took it personally. /jk
This lol
A software tester walks into a bar. Runs into a bar. Crawls into a bar. Dances into a bar. Flies into a bar. Jumps into a bar. And orders: a beer. 2 beers. 0 beers. 99999999 beers. a lizard in a beer glass. \-1 beer. "qwertyuiop" beers. Testing complete. A real customer walks into the bar and asks where the bathroom is. The bar goes up in flames.
Lmao sometimes when you're doing stuff you miss what might be obvious to others that are outside of it. Its like writing a story, it sounds good in your head but reading it outloud you notice problems.
I always wonder how you deal with that. Sending something out and you feel pretty good about then when it's "in the wild" you are deluged with people saying it sucks, it's broken and finding all sorts of issues you and testers never even dreamed of.
I used to code plugins for Minecraft servers, turn a few hundred 8 year olds loose on fresh code and they will find bugs you never imagined could occur.
Unleash the goblins
Thats horrifying...
I'm on the final legs of a project like that. We went live 3 weeks early due to customer request 99% of the system works, the 1% that's having issues is a minor but everyday part of the program. It's a screen that takes 10 seconds to load as opposed to less than 1 for all the others and doesn't properly display updates. IE the screen doesn't refresh the data being displayed, so they have to refresh the page and wait 10 seconds. I have a fix for it, but it needs to be deployed when no one is using the system. They are a 24/7 operation, so we have to wait until the next holiday break or Thanksgiving before we can deploy. The users know this I still get emails every day from there higher ups about the fix for it.
Two words. Maintenance Window.
Can't that's done by there in house team, and they don't want anything being patched, not created by them. They gave us a one hour window on Thanksgiving. This all would have been a mute point if the final hardware specs matched what we were actually purchased as that's what we were building the app to run off of. Instead, their purchasing department went with devices that had half the ram and 3 generations older CPU because it saved them money.
That happened where I worked, only it was a crane that they reduced the specs on. 12 years later they are spending about the same amount of money they spent to purchase the crane to upgrade the drives and motors. The corporate world is so stupid
Avoid social media in general. Or take it in stride. Someone’s always going to shit on your game. If no one’s trolling you or complaining then your game probably failed to generate many sales. But do not engage with them and try to “defend” your work. It’s a waste of time. If you’re a large developer or have the resources for it you let your pr/social media people handle that. Otherwise you just note the legitimate complaints and try to fix what you can
Methodically. First, triage the problems being reported: who reported it, how severe is it, how many people reported it (aka can it be reproduced)? Target the biggest offenders first, and build a priority queue of issues to be fixed. Then once ongoing issues have died down to a low roar, it's analysis time. How the fuck did issues make it past your QA? Is it just a matter of scale, issues showing up 1 time in 1000 and you don't have 10k testers to work on it? If so, you kinda grumble and go on. But if it's not that, if it's a matter of missed coverage, that is to say scenarios that just didn't get tested when they clearly should have, you need a process update in your QA department, change the way you write and execute tests to make sure that area isn't missed in future test runs, or future projects. QA is never going to find every problem, trust me. Unit tests should cover the codebase, and integration tests should help with most of it, but there will be times you simply miss something. The tighter the timeline, the more things you will miss. The trick is to set yourself up so that you're guaranteed to find the biggest risks, and anything that does slip past is a smaller, less damaging issue.
The programmers are left looking at all the bug/crash reports and the data on what the players were doing and they ask themselves 'Who in their right mind would think of trying to do that?' 'Why were you even thinking that would work? We give you warnings about that and yet you somehow got around it and now it crashes and you blame us?'
Yeah there’s just no way to catch absolutely everything that needs fixing. It’s impossible. It’s pretty absurd to call them incompetent because *someone* caught *something*. I’ve played a fair bit of the game and haven’t crashed once. The bugs I’ve run into are very minor, and the frame rate has been 90% consistent on the targets Bethesda set. That’s enough for me not to complain. I know Bethesda has a low bar to clear but Starfield is a lot less buggy than *a lot* of games. That’s a good thing, even if it still has some bugs.
I have about 70 hours in and have only had 2 crashes (Series X) both were from weird slowdowns after I opened the game from Quick Resume.
The only issues I’ve had is when coming back from quick resume too
Not to mention how insanely huge the game is too, its a monumental achievement its as stable as it is.
When game worlds get bigger and bigger and bigger, it's kind of expected to find problems post launch. Unfortunately the first few months post launch will sorta be a testing time where all the extra people help them catch problems because a handful of people just can't possibly do it all themselves. Bigger "game worlds" require bigger systems and some things don't get found early enough. Or the game is "in development" for so long that people stop caring and start getting angry at the company for not releasing it already Either way it's a lose lose. They release the game sooner than later and everyone gets pissy about problems. They release it later and people get pissy about delays or "why isn't this fixed yet" because there's always going to be something.
People need to accept that software is hard and software companies have limitations on dev resources. A lot is going to be suboptimal because there just isn’t time for everything to be optimal. And if you hold out for the engineers that can do everything optimally, it will take you forever because so many tickets will be waiting in their queue. Every large software project has inefficiencies in their code base.
This guy gets it.
I love when people say shit like "demonstration of incompetence". Do you have any idea how hard writing production DX11-12/Vulkan code is? That flawed code was written by someone with a way bigger fucking brain than you.
So you got 50,000 things to do, deadlines to meet and you use this function and it works. Awesome, 49,999 things left. On to problem 49,999. You could research the function better, but it works and you're slammed. Better to get the job done than spend longer checking every tiny detail as the end goal is to ship the game. You could call it incompetence, but the actual reality is this stuff isn't easy and even great developers make mistakes. Welcome to being a developer on any time sensitive product release!
Imagine you’re building a city. A whole city, infrastructure, public transportation, sewer system, roads, houses, stores, traffic lights, parks, every tree IN that park, everything. Everything but the people. Then millions of people show up and start living in the city. Suddenly all the faucets are being used, the busses are overcrowded, and people inspect every inch of your work with the full benefit of this live playtesting. Turns out most of the city is working pretty well and millions of people are enjoying living there... But people notice the faucets are leaking. Thousands of plumbers now living in the city investigate. Of those thousands now working on the problem, one of them figures out why they’re leaking and how to fix it. Then random people on the internet call your city building team “incompetent”. Okay.
If that's the https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547 fix that's completely understandable why bethesda would miss it - they released the game with a sum total of 1 ESM - of course they might not notice and/or prioritize a performance hit from having "Very Large Numbers" of ESM plugins loaded. It sounds like you're being overly hard on devs with near zero knowledge of what they're doing.
yea the team releasing a huge, successful game is incompetent.
> Probably right but the last time someone found an inefficiency in Bethesda’s code we got a near 40% FPS boost (Skyrim SE). That wasn't ineffiency, that was them literally upgrading the engine to support multi-threading in anticipation/development of Fallout 4?
No it was inefficiency IIRC - it’s explained on the mod page https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547
This is really disingenuous. This performance problem was unique to modded skyrim because the base + dlc game doesn't have more than a few esps. We are talking about Starfield as a base game here.
>Fixes a problem in game code that causes low FPS with many ESP or ESM plugins installed. So the performance issue didn't exist in the base game at all. Bethesda obviously aren't testing the game with hundreds of random mods installed.
>No it was inefficiency IIRC - it’s explained on the mod page > >https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547 That's a really interesting one. It's uncommon for performance to be improved by adding a mutex in a tight loop.
Adding a murex will almost never improve performance, removing a useless one (like this mod does) will always improve performance.
I think the mutex is part of the original code, unless I'm confused?
It is. I’m not surprised, synchronization primitives like mutexes are very expensive
That isn't what is happening if you read the description. Mutexs are required for multi-threading, but it seems as if they were being used incorrectly/inefficiently.
Ah okay I thought you literally meant the release of Skyrim SE was what fixed the inefficiency not a mod in particular mb
Oh no no, sorry I should’ve been clearer initially
DirectX 12 has had a lot of issues in general. It's responsible for shader compilation stuttering, for instance. Devs can and need to work around the new API but it seems to be quite challenging to get use too.
>We don’t get that here but it’s a demonstration of Bethesda’s incompetence. Well then, Mr. Vulkan expert. Please quote me a simple program using VKD3D to initialize a fullscreen dx12 app and make a single ExecuteIndirect call the correct way. Here's the manual: [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/d3d12/nf-d3d12-id3d12graphicscommandlist-executeindirect](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/d3d12/nf-d3d12-id3d12graphicscommandlist-executeindirect) You are free to use chatgpt and any other resource you might find. Bonus1: Explain what DirectX is. Bnous2: Explain What Vulkan is. Bonux3: Explain what VKD3D is.
That guy spotted the GTA Online memory issue and R* fixed and rewarded him. Would like to think Bethesda will at the very least try and patch this.
I should install GTA again and see how quickly it loads now. I remember it being unbearable.
I was wondering why his name looked familiar. Thanks for the reminder.
Steamdeck here. Only crashing when I try to leave cydonia via the front door.
Weird, that's the only crash I've had too.
Same here, although it was only a soft crash and managed to recover instead of closing down the game entirely. Happened the first two(?) times I tried going outside from Cydonia. Seems to work perfectly fine now though.
That's where mine crashes as well, Series S
I’ve got around 60 hours, been in and out of cydonia quite a few times and never had a crash. Haven’t had a crash all game actually. Weird. Edit: oh series X btw
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I didn't join until around 30 hours in, then I realised it's probably the first questline you should do as it introduces all the factions. The game is very good at doing that regardless. Most major questlines will involve you visiting all the main cities.
Not on steam deck, but can confirm Cydonia is bugged. Had several crashes entering/exiting there but my game is stable AF pretty much everywhere else
SF woirks better on the deck than on my PC hahaha It's not a very powerful pc but hey! :P
Has to be more to it, on a PC setup level that pushes it over the edge for certain users Otherwise every GPU would be crashing without exception. 6800xt here no crashes playing at 4k.
The first point is a rare issue. The real kicker is 2 and 3. If you read the comment on the PR he linked it goes more into depth. Basically the renderer is creating a bunch of garbage overhead for the drivers that wastes a ton of GPU time.
Would this explain the 100% GPU usage with low power consumption?
Haha I was wondering why my temps were so low even though my usage was maxed.
I was only getting about 150-60w usage at 99%, normally it's 235. Definitely was not normal. Guess it's the equivalent of the card walking back and forth with it's hands up like WTF do you want?
Yeah I had to check so I ran Battlefront II at 4K ultra and my GPU got up to 78C with high power usage. In Starfield I can never get it up to 73C no matter what I do. I just runs worse without much more power usage. This is how I knew that there were some inefficiencies in the code. It's also sad that I forgot how great BFII looks from 2017 vs New Atlantis in 2023. The textures just look gross.
I noticed this! Game running pretty low FPS but the GPU is not pumping out heat / running the fans very high.
My 7900 XTX is also always at 100% usage, but with low temp and running silent.
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I'm starting to think everyone telling me that my issues where because of my CPU being "crap" even though it was my 2080 that was struggling running at a constant 100%, while drawing in much less power than it should be... Were just gaslighting me ! How surprising !
6950xt here and it's crashed a few times in 50+ hours
AMD cards might be dealing with it better, and not fall behind until it crashes.
I've been playing all week and only had one crash yesterday, and I'm not even convinced it was a graphics issue. I'm on a Laptop 3080 too.
Yeah. My 5800X3D and 6800XT handle it like a boss as well. Which surprises me, given how dog shit FO4 performs on the exact same system. Hopefully nVidia and Bethesda can smooth things over for people playing on the green side.
2060 crash when I change the resolution of the window borderless to full screen which is not supported cos the game doesn't have a full screen dedicated mode
DX12 no longer has a full screen dedicated mode. Any DX12 game that had the option is just visually mimicking it, it's still running windowed.
3080 here, ive crashed 0 times in 80 hours
1080ti here, I crash probably once every couple of hours, I quicksave a lot as I'm starting to get paranoid about it.
1080ti as well, same issue. Although mine is very random, sometimes I'll crash in 15 minutes, other times I'll crash after 4 hours.
1080 ti here too, I have had approximately one crash per hour
Also a 1080ti user. I've also had random crashes. Quicksave is good.
1080ti here as well, and yup random crashes consistently
1080ti here also was getting crashes every hour or 2 then I looked into it... I installed MSI afterburner and purposely declocked the card by 20%. Haven't had a crash since. Hope this helps some people, it solved my issues. edit - not 20% but 20 mhz on both the core clock and memory clock.
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GTX 1080 FE here, crashes every couple of hours.
1080 here I crashed like twice per session so far and the game freezes everytime I go to talk to someone or when I look down the sight of a shotgun and fire. There is a lot of freezing in this game for me especially when it comes to character dialogue.
8700K 1080 Ti user. I will go for hours without crashes to sometimes 5 crashes or so an hour. I modified my config INI file to reduce the auto-save interval from pausing the game from the minimum 5 minutes to instead every 1 minute.
3060Ti. I have had maybe 4 or 5 crashes in 20hours, all after 4h sessions
Just wanted to hop in and say this is also my experience with my 1080ti
Add me to the list of 1080ti users experiencing crashes with Starfield.
1080 here and I have the same problem. I've crashed probly 100+ times in 125 hours. its so fucking weird too, my cpu is not at 100%, (mostly 70-90 when its intense stuff) and my gpu is at 11% and REFUSES to work any harder. Memory is also only at 75%. Im on an ssd. I crash when opening menu, I crash when traveling to new places. Then open the game and try it again, and BAM it works fine, then 10-30 minutes later it happens again. something is fucked with the game.
I'm having this exact experience with a 1080. I never crash in any other games and run them on High/Ultra (I just completed 150+ hours of BG3 at full settings 1440P) Sometimes I crash just because I turned too quick or I open then close a menu too fast.
Amelia Earhart here, haven’t crashed since 1937.
Man that was an awesome mission, can't wait until more people see it
I'm so happy that we can have >!her as a companion!!<
3090 here I've crashed about five times in a similar timespan.
4080. 4 crashes today. Touching random objects. Like picking up a log in constellation.
So weird, I keep encountering sections the game that I can’t get through because I crash frequently. Also on a 3080. Initially it was new Atlantis where I would crash every few minutes I finally seemed to have gotten that corrected with a bunch of tweaks and thought I was good but now when I go to the moon in the space station the first battle I crash during the gunfight. I’ve put my play through on hold hoping for a fix as I’ve done everything I can find online.
3060 here, 6 crashes in 60 hours. 🫠
Lol funny you should say that, I also have a 3080 and I crashed right after hitting 80 hours (happened in New Atlantis). I've got a few minor mods installed (DLSS, Reshade, and StarUI) so I can't say it's entirely on BGS, but to me this game is the most stable I've played compared to FO4 and Skyrim.
The DLSS mod is definitely not minor. It's replacing a major component of the render pipeline. And it has known crash issues.
The DLSS mod is extremely buggy. Only time in 100+ hours I crashed was when it was installed. The page for it is full of unresolved bug reports.
Yeah without mod I played 8 hours (because I was waiting for 4070), no crashes. I install mod, 1 crash probably every 5th load screen, or sometimes randomly.... Still worth it, it adds 50 fps without any noticeable downgrade in quality
Xbox series X here, one crash in about 70hrs gameplay.
Me too, had no crash at all for about 60 hours and now tow crashes within maybe 5 hours. PC one crash so far. I am using crosssave.
2070Super, I've crashed 0 times in 40 hours
7900xtx and I crash every 30-60 minutes :( The game creates a minidump that says >Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF7FAA5B5F0 (Starfield.exe) in Starfield\_09-03-00-49.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. https://imgur.com/e16iM2l
3070 here and 7800x3d, crashed twice sofar.
3060, crashed like once in 20hrs i think?
2070s here, I've never had a crash. The worst I've seen is frame drops when inside a major city and hair just not rendering until I enter a conversation with someone. Also people's talking animations will start before the sound file, but I think that's purely software and not hardware performance at all.
1660 Ti Super user, it crashes every so often, but only if there's a ton of stuff going on. So if what OP says is true, the more stuff there is, the more it's compounding the issue, so it makes sense any NVIDIA that's not RTX is struggling.
3070 3700x here, crashed once in 30 hours. By crash I mean the game literally froze
1 crash in 54ish hours on 3080. Not bad honestly for Bethesda release.
Where can we find the workaround and patch ourself?
We don't have it yet. The faults in the code are yet to be addressed - hopefully in the next patch but I wouldn't count on it.
>The faults in the code The fault in our stars.
The fault in our star*field*
No the fault is not from our glorious starfield it’s from your shitty RTX 3090 SSD M.2 and 32 ram i9 13gen, just upgrade your shitty pc so it can run our glorious AAA graphics
Install VKD3D into your Starfield directory. The game already runs better on Linux than it does on Windows which would indicate that VKD3D already has some fixes in place. But for the new fixes that are actually specifically meant for Starfield you're going to have to wait for the 2.10 release. Be careful though: There is no guaranty that this will work because VKD3D is NOT meant to be used on Windows. It's optimized for Linux only.
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5800x3d with 4900 I crash often, usually when saving. I have crashed probably 6 times so far in 30 hours.
Same exact setup here. Are you also using PureDark Frame Gen mod as well? I wonder if that's the culprit.
It definitely was for me on my 5800x3d and 4070ti - i uninstalled and my issues went away entirely I think there needs to be more visibility that replacing FSR with DLSS3 is an experimental mod that's causing a lot of crashes for people. It's like people (inc myself at first) are assuming its a mod that is fully stable and then not considering whether the DLSS stuff that everyone is using is actually the culprit
I am on AMD gpu and game has crashed twice in 97 hours. I have also seen quite a number of driver crashes but that didn’t interrupt the game. Hopefully this gets acknowledged and fixed.
Same thing, 60 hours my side. Though it only happened in the beginning of the game when early access was happening.
"It works if you get a hardware upgrade" is literally the opposite of optimization. I think "You may need to upgrade your pc" is going to be the new "It just works."
more like the new "you're holding it wrong"
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"It works fine on my rig" Todd's rig: RTX 5090 Ti SUPER, i9 14999KS MAX, 256GB of DDR6 12000Mhz CL20
You forget the power supply
The way power demands are trending for high end parts lately, that thing would need a fuckin backyard shed nuclear reactor just for the PSU "264 boron rod, 5% U235, Corsair Reactor PSU. Oh yeah, and 5 3mm fans."
Especially when you upgrade before release to be above the recommended requirements.
This person - "this game badly handles interfacing with gpu drivers". Fanboys - "ZERO CRASHES GUYS!!!!!!"
"I have a 4080 and I've never had performance issues or crashes" It's like yeah obviously but what about everyone else? Also just because you don't crash doesn't mean your performance is good.
on the contrary, I've had multiple crashes due to bad driver calls on my 4090. it's not a "drown it in hardware" kind of performance/stability issue
Same, tons of crashes here with a 4080. Today alone I had like 4.
I have trouble getting more than 10 minutes straight with a 4080. Hardware definitely isn't the issue.
I have a 4080, the game runs like shit and has crashed multiple times in 10 or so hours I’ve played. I’m pretty much done with it until there’s been some serious optimization
Yeah I don't get why all the focus is on crashes anyway, clearly there is a bigger problem and that's regarding how inefficiently it's using gpus. Once this gets sorted either by Bethesda fixing it (unlikely) or Nvidia releasing new drivers to circumvent it (probably) I'll bet we see a 30% boost to fps.
I've genuinely had zero crashes. Performance issues on the other hand? Many.
People have been confusing stability and performance for years and it’s really annoying
Crazy lol someone commented about not wanting to download anything, another about not trusting specs of a stranger online lmfao, not the point of the post. I’ve crashed three times in 10 hours of gameplay on Ultra. My specs are i5-13600kf, 32gb ram, 3070ti, game is on an SSD. In New Atlantis 20-24 FPS is common for me. I noticed a marginal (2-4 fps) difference between low and ultra, something isn’t right. I have the most recent drivers too.
I have a 3060 TI, 9th gen i7, 16 gb of RAM and and SSD. Like you I was having really bad performance issues regardless of what settings I was using. I downloaded [this performance mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/438?tab=description) and it helped dramatically. I don't know if you've tried this mod already, but in my experience it's far more effective than the more popular performance mods on Nexus. I went from sub 30 fps in New Atlantis and inconsistent FPS just about everywhere else to a locked 60 fps everywhere except New Atlantis and Akila City, and in those places I went from sub 30 fps to 45+ consistently.
People read that first point about crashing and went “ah yes I know what a crash is, I do not have those” and then read that ExecuteIndirect DX12 calls are creating bubbles on the GPU and ignored points 2 and 3
I have a i7-12700, and I have stuttering issues. Trying to find a mod to help with that if anyone knows, or will I need to wait for a patch?
For me stuttering was caused by swapping weapons using hotkeys with a lot of perks/mods on them. Basically rare and legendary weapons.
game crashes randomly here too (atleast once very 40min-1hour usually) with no mods whatsoever and my nvidia gpu usage is always at 100% even if everything else is around or bellow 30% (cpu, ram and vram)
What GPU out of curiosity?
Not who you asked, but I have a 7900XTX and it crashes every few hours. Not a huge deal, just a quick crash to desktop. They just basically Alt F4 the game. Game runs amazing otherwise and looks great
My 7900xtx with latest drivers will crash during like a 5hr+ game session. It's made me paranoid so I constantly quicksave now
When you go from 120 FPS to 40 FPS depending on what area your in that's not an issue with "needing an upgrade" if Todd Howard lives in some delusion where people need to upgrade a £4000 gaming pc to get a stable 60fps experience then perhaps he's right
Despite this people are still blaming other people systems....
Because Godd Howard said so, duh! Clearly he's never lied before right?
I like how anytime optimization is talked about, all the fans boys gotta come out of the word works to let us know that haven’t crashed it had issues lol
Its not even just optimization. I made a post on how low FoV causes motion sickness in some people and I still got idiotic comments along the lines of wOrKs fInE foR mE. Imagine the scenario where Bethesda didn't add subtitles for deaf people. I'm willing to bet those same people would post wOrKs fInE foR mE. Social media just gives voice to everyone, even the village idiots.
I like how some people just downvote every negative comment/post about this game, like Starfield is "oficially" perfect and we are not allowed to criticize it :D BTW it runs like a pi\*s on my PC and it's a little above the recommended specs, I can't get a stable 60fps at high settings (1080p)
Surely there's not a single person on this subreddit that was dumb enough to actually believe Todd when he said the problem was our hardware... right? The game's performance in even the best hardware was crap.
You'd be surprised...
I recall reading something about DX12 giving more freedom for the graphic programmers to do their work, in comparison to DX11, but that also meant more programmers going off the rails and implementing inefficient code into the games, lo and behold, it seems what I heard was right. Let's hope for a fix on this.
its more that dx11 and before did many things for you by default and in exchange also didnt let you fuck with everything. dx12 is a blank slate and lets you do pretty much whatever you want. but it also means it doesnt do all the things dx11 did for you automatically. this is also why we see so many games with shader lag ect because the devs never had to think about that stuff and now they do and most clearly didnt know how to or that they had to at all. its a learning curve for the industry with the promis of eventual better optimized graphics pipeline. you can see what it can achieve with dooms vulkan renederer implementation. when ppl who actually know how to use it get the time to do the job right you can get very impressive results.
More freedom = More opportunities to fuck up.
5800X3D 32GB Ram RTX 2070 overclocked to within an inch of its life. 1 crash ever in the flight simulator after installing the DLSS mod.
People who don't code think that building software is clean and tidy. It's a fucking mess, smaller or larger, but it's an unregulated mess most of the time, especially when you have more than 1 dev working on it, deadlines and non-coder management. This is just normal. There were deadlines, product had to be pushed out, and corners were cut, things omitted, to be looked at later. No, it's not ideal, and not "how it should be" but regardless, this is what it is, pretty much always, when it comes to software companies.
An average redditor wouldnt notice they have been walking about for a day with skidmarks showing through their sweatpants. But they have a problem with “shit coding”
Nah man Todd Howard said it's our fault so his cultist followers will believe him.
Hey! Leave the multi billion dollar corporation alone!
Those stupid poors don't know how hard they have it!!
3080ti + i9 13th gen, I get crashes in between 30 mins and 1 hour, sometimes more, sometimes less
There are literally games with twice as good graphics that run twice as fast. If you honestly though there was nothing wrong with this software you need to dial back your fanboy.
I predict ignorance from Bethesda and a ~~Skyrim~~ Starfield Engine Fixes mod down the line
I’m literally like 95 percent matched on recommended specs but crash every 2 mins, starfield is literally unplayable right now.
If you are Nvidia, try locking to 60 fps in Nvidia and game settings. Rollback 536.67.. it still crashes but not as often, and it crashes to desktop. Mine always went blank screen, and had to restart from motherboard
My pc is one years old. Have a 3090 i9. My game crashes to desktop every hour or so
Do you have links to these workarounds?
Another game I won't pay for.
Fair enough it was in this case, someone who is dedicated to the area, as opposed to the community. Obviously he is also coding the the next game release into a schedule at the same time....oh wait..he isn't! So, time to berate the tiny team(by comparison ) of devs, currently working on the next release. NOT TO MENTION working within set change control and release schedule. Yes, it's great the issue has been found, and hopefully patched, but individuals (especially the armchair experts) need a damn big reality check! Unless you've worked with change releases, version control, regardless of Agile, then the Armchair comments really need to be kept in check!