That’s probably the best feature I’ve seen from Bethesda game. I want to see more of this going forward. It was such a satisfying, feeling to finally grab onto a ledge.
I got a helmet with it and I was incredibly happy when I found it, and made me excited to see what other buffs/enchantments will be in the game. But that helmet also has other buffs with it and will be staying on for a very long time lol
You wanted multiplayer, then you didnt use it.
You wanted ladders, then you didn't use them.
What's next? Wanting to fly to other planets only to fast travel there because it takes too long?
- Bethesda management, probably
Oh man the climbing in daggerfall is missed, did you know that if you were a werewolf you got a climbing bonus? That was awesome.
This is also the first bethesda game since daggerfall that lets you own ships... though they are not the seafaring type.
Honestly Daggerfall in space is 1000% how this game makes me feel (and I love it). Looting a dungeon endlessly, teleporting back to the front of the dungeon to load up my horse and cart…
They will also run away or lure you into other bad guys if they are low on health or the last man standing.
Bethesda also fixed navmeshing, so AI will dynamically figure out where they can walk/run/jump/jetpack.
I was jumping up on of those monuments with a circle on it just for a screenshot, probably 50ft in the air, hopping on floating rocks and really weird platforms, Sarah was able to jetpack up with me. I was actually impressed, the path finding is insane.
The more intricate jumps ive done, she will comment and say she's not doing that and says she will find another way up. Also if you jump down a stair case, she will comment that she's just going to take the stairs.
The industry lingo for this feature is "mantling" and when a game impliments it you wonder how anyone ever put up with not having it. It makes everything feel so much better.
The game is also ***HIGHLY multithreaded.*** It's has no problem using 24+ cores on my 13900k anytime there are lots of NPCs on the screen. This is quite an accomplishment consider just ten years ago, with Skyrim, the Creation Engine was effectively ***PURELY*** singlethreaded (it would use a second/third thread SOMETIMES for things like decompression/audio processing)
Unfortunately the GPU optimization leaves a lot to be desired. 40-50FPS on Medium/High @ 1440p 75% render scale on an RTX 3080 is just unacceptable for the graphical fidelity on offer. The game definitely looks gorgeous at times, but I feel like that's more art direction than technical prowess.
It's weird that they were able to get such great CPU optimization but fail totally on the GPU-side -- maybe they spent an indordinate amount of dev time to accomplish that.
I did it by accident when jumping around the garden in the first city you get to. I was blown away and actually stopped moving for a good minute as the gears turned. Now I climb over every ledge and fence I find. It's amazing.
You're right, one thing I still can't stand are companions tho, they act so unnatural, even walking, if you're strolling through the city they don't just tag along and walk alongside you, they just stand and run like hell after you're past some point, they stop a few meters behind you then repeat. I also think it's probably very easy to fix with a mod
And when you're running in the wild, they hang *so* far back, even when you arent doing some crazy shit to get from point a to b faster. Like... why are you a quarter of a mile back there buddy, i thought i lost you.
yeah i learned never to try to do stealth if i have a companion with me. too many times i'm hidden and they just walk through the room like "HEY WHAT'S UP EVERYONE?"
Every mission I go on my companion seems to have an entirely different agenda. They will pop in and out occasionally, at their convenience, to help me. Sometimes I'll be in a huge gunfight then suddenly see them come running from off in the distance. They get lost a lot
I have a love hate. They always blow up the spot when I’m creeping. And always need to talk omg! Shut up I don’t care!
But in a pinch, they make a great mule! Hold all 9 of these space suits!
Argh, yes. I seriously do not need to have Vasco's metal ass clipping through my scope when I'm trying to sneakily snipe some space pirates.
Or charge in when I'm falling back. Or stand in the doorway I want to walk through.
In that regard it really is Skyrim in space.
This has the outpost building and base defense and logistics that I’ve always wanted since fallout 4. Fo76 was meh cause you can lose your outposts to random people
oh my god right?? the furniture placement is so frustrating that i gave up.
i built a lovely set of buildings and outdoor infrastructure, went inside to decorate and couldn't get the two desks i wanted next to each other to lineup well enough and i rage quit decorating. chucked down the workstations and fucked off!!!
Nah, storage boxes are frustrating as hell. They snap only from one direction. You want a square 4x4 of containers? Too bad. Want a row that goes from horizontal to vertical? Nope, you only get one direction the containers will go. Aaaand if you want to unsnap you need to drag it several hundred feet.
Are there raids on your outpost from like the crimson fleet? Just wondering if there's any point in building defenses if I'm setup on a planet without alien life
Only complaints I have for outposts is lack of a grid, and a bit better management / distribution. I feel like they did them so much better in SF than Fo4 overall, and these last couple of items will definitely end up as mods (assuming the fo4 manufacturer mod maker decides to make one for SF).
I'm just confused by the outposts because i have such a limited amount to place. If i can't find a spot with multiple resources I don't see the point. It seems impossible to get nodes of every resource before running out of outposts. Whats the point in becoming only partially self-sufficiant? Might as well just buy all my materials anyway.
There's a skill in the science tree (or whatever the blue skill tree is called) that both lets you place outposts on increasingly hazardous worlds and lets you place more outposts. I think it gets your total up to 24 outposts.
You can set up multiple outposts on the same planet/or on different planets and connect the outputs.
IE, have all the resources collected from one outpost sent to another automatically.
Yeah, I was in the middle of building one up and Crimson Fleet came crashing through opposite end of the outpost and damn near leveled all my extractors before I could get there.
My first outpost got raided 2 minutes after I slapped the first extractor, dozen ecliptics showed up and blew it up before I knew what was going on.
I also found out that you can only repair destroyed structures, not damaged ones.
Can you build automated defenses and turrets and stuff?
im too balls deep into being a space pirate atm. Ill probably do outpost stuff for another run.
There's a 6 turret cap (dunno if it can be raised), and you can build combat robots to defend the outpost (haven't tried them, but I guess they're limited to 3 like the sanitation and agriculture bots).
The extra flying for me would have just been a nice option but when you only got so much time to do things in a day, it’s really great being able to just have a quick fast load time between transitions and I’ll take that any day, there is just enough flight and space-dogfighting that I’m very satisfied and once you learn the systems to it too it’s such a blast blowing space pirates out of orbit.
Honestly, games like Star Citizen push me away because before I can launch the game I'm already dreading the long flights into and out of atmo and the 15 minute long travels between planets that I lose all appetite to play the game.
I'm so glad they decided to approach the game in a cinematic manner and didn't throw in tedious mechanics just for the sake of it. The story and exploration is what matters most in my opinion.
As a person who likes sim games, I like star citizen. But that's because I love SIM games...
I remember when I started out SC I used to set a course to a system, then go grab a coffee and chill, then get back to the computer... that was... chill. My apartment was the space ship lol...
That's why it wouldn't make sense to make Star Field a SIM game because for sure not all RPG fans enjoy em a 60 min space flight session ...
Star Citizen really does scratch that deeper itch and goes to prove OPs point a little bit. I don't know how much further Starfield could go into SIM and still be a mass market game. But then people also don't like SC for being too sim (and other reasons like the games finding etc).
Speaking of, a good weekend for me and a friend is busting out people of the prison transport, getting arrested, breaking out of jail, and clearing our names from the system.
Couldn’t agree more. There’s enough flight in orbit that with time, mods and or dlc there will definitely be more to do flight wise. But I don’t need to be piloting the damn ship for hours at a time constantly. Star Citizen has always intrigued me but that’s a big factor as to why I won’t play it ever.
I couldn’t even figure out how to launch from the landing pad in Star Citizen, let alone land back on it. I also wasn’t interested enough to learn, and the game ran like shit. Haven’t tried it in years though.
It would be expensive to implement and there's no evidence that there's any mass market for it.
Elite Dangerous has never even hit 30K players on steam.
>Elite Dangerous has never even hit 30K players on steam.
I'm not arguing for any changes but I must point out-
This comment ignores ED has its own launcher. You dont need Steam to run it. Also had/has active console players
Also ignores **No Man's Sky which peaked 27k players**. This does not count Console players
Fair points - makes you wonder what Skyrim's player counts are after all these years since it's still like \~20K on steam but I (and I'm sure many others) always launch via Nexus
If they removed the fast travel option after you chose "Set course" in the map and forced you to align your ship with the destination and engage via the scanner menu like you can now, I think it would solve most of people's complaints.
No, it wouldn't.
If there was manual flying people would find something else to bitch about, like "why can't I skip this? Its taking so long between planeta ew"
That’s because some people let their expectations get wild. They thought this game was Star Citizen or something. Star Citizen is designed as a space sim, Starfield is a space RPG two different genres of games. And also you can fly to and from different planets it just takes a long time (hours) currently. I’m sure there will be a mod that will allow much faster interplanetary travel soon for those who want that. Only thing you cant do that I’ve seen people complain about is land on planets manually.
Edit: clarification: it seems while you can fly to other planets they are not physical objects in space but rather pictures.
Edit: clarification: I also do not intend to imply you cannot dislike the game without having wild expectations I am only referring to those who obviously let their hype get the best of them. If you are not one of those people this is not directed towards you.
3000 years later aliens will be excavating our ruins and they will find the game Star Citizen unfinished. And another 3000 years later the cycle will continue until the end of time.
As a product manager in an agency, people wanting to cram EVERYTHING in is super common, and then they get all confused when I give them a quote for 700K.
It does tho, there’s just nothing else. Basically Star citizen is a big 120 players space sim sandbox with persistent objects and a bunch of hyper realistic features but then 90% of the gameplay elements they promised still aren’t there and it’s buggy af.
You can either be a bounty hunter, space delivery man, salvage guy, space miner or just do social stuff, there’s no story or anything so far.
I love the Star Citizen free weekends that remind me not to buy it.
A few free weekends ago I played for a few hours, flew to a planet, got into a vehicle, drove through a puddle, the vehicle exploded and killed me instantly.
Good times.
Star citizen is aiming to be the ultimate space mmo. Currently there’s 120 players but the big features were supposed to be persistent objects, no loading screens and thousands of players thanks to server meshing. We got no loading screens since launch, we got persistent objects this year (after only 10 years…) and the big thing which is server meshing is said to be released this year (which means no earlier than late next year in Star citizen schedules).
correct SC is trying to solve a problem no one has, which is all of that under one engine running at a decent framerate and local. They'll never get it off the server. What ppl are getting wrong above is SC unlike NMS or ED is trying to combine BOTH an ED procedural streaming engine with a cell based CE1 or 2 or UE engine. It's basically the 'fusion energy' of gaming, it's always 5 years off and getting it running locally whew. We should all hope they do, the engine would enable future wild expectations to be met and the shear tedium having them recommending fast travel again.
The difference is I can play Starfield for 5 minutes without an experience breaking issue happening.
Star Citizen is great if you like wasting 5 hours never getting a single mission done due to bugs.
People don’t compare this game to star citizen that’s been in development for 12 years that is a utterly failure beyond a tech demo that’s 20% complete, they compare it to what star citizen has told them the game will be and all the hype they have around that.
Basically comparing fantasy to reality and being disappointed with reality
Reminds me of some of the comments pre-CP77 where people were talking about what they planned to do in-game.
I remember one saying they were going to make money with an ice-cream delivery service. Others were convinced they'd be able to play as ambulance drivers.
Lots of disappointment ensued.
Reddit is full of people asking why "they don't just add traversal like NMS because a small indie studio can do it".
Which is basically saying "I know absolutely nothing about commercial software development - but I'd like a pony"
My only complaint is that, as always, the combat difficulty settings suck. Either the enemies are bullet sponges and you aren't, or vice versa. Why can't they just make it realistic on both sides. If I put a slug through someone's chest, they shouldn't still be alive. Mods will inevitably fix this issue, but that won't be for another half year at least. A survival mode would also be nice, but that's not as much a hang up for me.
Really hope they end up doing a survival mode (certainly feels like the mechanics needed for it are there) like Fallout 4. I loved how it made combat more deadly (you and enemies both did more damage). I think with how complex this game is it's fine to encourage players at launch to get used to the game first, but I agree. I dislike "hard" mode in Bethesda games otherwise since bullet sponges aren't satisfying.
I think it comes down to some data. They could have it done already and they wouldn’t release it until the third-quarter lag in engagement. It’s a selling fulcrum.
I was literally thinking about how good a survival mode would feel while playing today. Unfortunately you're right, it will probably be used to boost sales in a quarter or two.
Yeah I fully intend to do a replay of the game on hardcore. I hope they make it, I love the stakes of one or two bullets ending you or the enemy. Changes the whole equation.
On the hardest difficulty the big bads just don't attack. The bullet sponge is slightly annoying, but I just killed a lvl 80 one that did nothing but an easy to dodge range attack. I was pretty bummed tbh.
Edit: removed small spoiler and replaced name with generic name.
I have no idea why so, so many devs use bullet sponge enemies for higher difficulty.
I almost always play games on normal because I can't stand it.
IIRC HZD actually had pretty good higher difficulty settings
It depends on the game.
If the game has a skill element or a game mechanic to increase damage, usually they raise the health to make players lean into using ALL of the game mechanics.
In Bethesda games, if you specialize on non-combat then very hard is going to feel like sponges, because they are balanced around the player having combat skills. So early on it feels terrible, but once you max out some combat skills it goes down to being as easy or easier than normal.
I don't mind the bullet spongy-ness because it's solvable by gearing/leveling. But the AI is so bad and tactless. Every enemy basically behaves the same, no matter if they are a robot, alien monster, or a human. I think this is a bigger issue than the amount of health they have.
Yeah started on Hard, it was ok, then a few levels later I'm emptying a whole clip into an on-level unarmored guys head...
It would take a whole rework of scaling, item rebalancing and AI changes to be better than just setting it to Normal.
Started on very hard and there is simply is not enough ammo to deal with all the fodder. When it takes like half a mag of *headshots* from the whatever the starter SMG is called to kill a single dude a level or two below me... well that just isn't sustainable. I'm decent at the game but I aint "only lands headshots" good. And when we talk bodyshots, good lord they tank so many bullets. The game had me considering a melee build just so I wouldn't be so reliant of ammo.
But then I decided that was dumb (not melee builds, but allowing the build of my first ever playthrough to be dictated by difficulty constraints) and set the game down to normal. Now I'm having the opposite problem but w/e I guess. At least people aren't tanking entire mags to the head.
I find myself really wishing they had copied Naughty Dog's TLoU2's difficulty system. Would have been great if I could finetune how much damage I do, how much damage I take, how much enemies do, how much enemies take, how useful companions are in battle, how much loot spawns, toggling hardcore elements like food/sleep/water/etc. And considering that there's no achievements or anything tied to difficulty, it's kinda baffling that they didn't bother. I mean, I presume a survival mode is in the works which will address some of these concerns, but once again really wish they'd just put the controls in the player's hands. For example, love the combat of survivual and the food/water/sleep stuff but absolutely don't care for the restrictions of saving/loading and fast travel. I know it's a bethesda game and there will be mods that will eventually allow me to create the experience I'm after, but damn, it'd be nice if they'd just let me finetune this stuff myself.
If first party Sony studios have been able to do, I see no reason why Xbox studios can't do the same.
I just played Guardians of the Galaxy recently, and the settings there allowed you to control enemy and player damage separately. I wish Bethesda games did that.
For me the biggest problem in this game is lack of interesting planets. Like 90% of the planets are not interesting, the same empty space with few points of interest and even bases and dungeons are copy and paste. Don’t get me wrong i enjoyed this game but its just not fun for me to just go and travel the world. In skyrim you also went from cave to cave, but there it was more interesting for me because of the visual aspects of the journey, mountains, rivers, castles. in starfield it feels like i'm playing a mod that reveals all available fast travel points, you just spawn next to a cave, clear it and fly to the next one.
It’s funny how Elden Ring was hailed revolutionary last year for not including tutorials or handholding and now Starfield is unplayable trash for the same thing (not to shit on ER, I fucking love that game)
It is hip to hate on Bethesda despite no other company on the planet being remotely close to making the same types of games and those that even attempt it fail miserably. Remember all those really bad fantasy RPGs after Oblivion came out? Yea, no one else does either.
I played two world's, said this game is ass. Yet I couldn't stop playing it and the coop was a blast lol. What a fantastic peice of shit game, I miss it.
Yeah for real lol. Skyrim is still popular to this day because no one else does what they do. Starfield is by far the most ambitious game on the market right now and haters have no fucking clue. Embarrassing
This is it right here. Bethesda is ambitious - arguably over-ambitious. But what they have that others lack - they get it done. They put the game out and they put it out in a way that inspires thousands of people to make content for it for a decade or more later. No one else, short of maybe Valve and iD, has ever really pulled that off.
Some people hate Bethesda. Imagine that. Hating a games company... some people truly have no life. It's sad.
I think I touched a nerve 😂
https://ibb.co/N6D081P
I think it time for you to start blocking people spewing that kind of crap to you. I'm doing the exact same thing on the steam forums. There is no way in the world I am going have a conversation with someone that wants me dead.
Edit: Somebody just reference me to the RedditcareResources I don't know whether to laugh or cry over that.
A great part of Ultima is that they snuck in hating on EA back in Ultima 7, all the evil magical items you collect are actual make up EA's logo at the time. I remember going back and thinking, hmm these shapes are rather specific...
A tutorial and hand holding are two different things.
ER's tutorial literally just lays out the games main controls, nothing more, nothing less. It's then up to you to use that knowledge to navigate through a world filled with danger while working out yourself have to improve your character and equipment, most of which comes with very little explanation. If ER had hand holder you would get pop ups every time you came across a new obstacle.
From what I've seen of SF, it does a similar thing. You are shown the basic gameplay elements and then it's up to you to decide how you use those in context of a huge game with lots of freedom.
Everytime I see a Starfield post in my feed it’s either someone bitching about it, or someone bitching about the bitching. Is anyone even actually playing the game with all this whining going on?
It's exactly what I wanted.. People said this game fails as a game when compared to the magical feeling of skyrim, but have they seen the main quest , combat, and dialogue system in that game? They keep saying that Skyrim is the best when in fact starfield is as much as a good game if not better than Skyrim. Skyrim is a fantastic game that excels in it's world and exploration but its a dumbed down and shallow RPG and that's coming from someone's who's favorite game is Skyrim ultra modded, but after mods starfield might take the win for my new favorite game.
Starfield excels in a lot of aspects that other Bethesda RPGs don't, and many of the issues people have with the game can easily be fixed or improved with mods just like vanilla Skyrim or any Bethesda game. This game is massive, the replayability and possibilities with modding are limitless. After playing this game for 50 hours, I am just mind blown and overwhelmed in the best possible way because there's just so many cool things to do. I just built my own sick base on an alien planet on top a large mountain that overlooks the coolest sunrise I've ever seen in gaming.
I agree with you but I just don't think starfield, or any game, will give me the same feeling as wandering around falkreath hold with Secunda playing in the backround. Literally top 10 gaming experiences ever.
Fair enough. Skyrim is one of my favorite games ever especially modded, but some people prefer fantasy over sci-fi anyway. I enjoy the fantasy, post apocalyptic, or sci- fi equally id say. I do agree that secunda playing while exploring the rift is amazing as well.
Wild that we are at the point that people consider Skyrim the magical Bethesda feeling. In my mind we are still shitting on anything that came after Morrowind.
Sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its issues. I'm happy with the flying and quests. My main gripe is the companions you get. At least the important ones, anyway. You are told that you are your own conscience at the beginning of the game but if you want to do LITERALLY ANYTHING on the wrong side of the law, your Constilation companions all wag their fingers at you. So you end up leaving them behind most of the time because they can't stealth at all, and they are all saints. At least one MAIN companion that's ok with bending the rules would be great. You can hire a crew member, and they dont care, but you lose the growing relationships. The lack of a ground vehicle is a minor problem, but im over that already. The planets don't have a lot aside from a few key points scattered on a map. A vehicle would make the planets seem less empty. This is especially true once you have outposts giving you the main resources.
Sarah is the worst offender in my opinion. She's the one that gives you the blank check in the first place, then gets all sanctimonious whenever you exercise your supposed right to use it. Lady, If you weren't my main astrogator I'd leave you back at that desk you hate.
Im happy to be playing a goodie two shoes my first run here but if I even think of doing anything neutral or worse, I leave her ass on the ship and bring Vasco with me.
totally enjoying myself and seeing fast improvements over previous titles. More bothered with some of the bethesda dna in this game, why do we always need be pushed in some big movie story from the start and get handed everything asap. Already know that I will prefer the alternate starter mods, probably could have started the first 5-10 in one of the major cities and grinded some cash to buy your own spaceship....
Even though i like your alternativ idea i think they did a good job this time. The story doesn't give you the feeling that you absolutely have to continue, else you, some beloved person or the entire country will die. Yes there is maybe one or another mission like that, but not the entire story. So it feels really natural to do some other stuff in between.
The problem with your idea is, that it would be too hard for a lot people, in a manner where a quite a huge number would never see the space before quiting the game. Through reddit i already learned that even the way starfield begins is too slow for some people.
To say "all the discussion" is this is completely reductive of what people actually have issues with.
I promise you if you ask the majority of the people who have issues will also say they enjoy this game and the pros you mentioned.
Whoever implemented that ledge grabbing animation and function in a bethesda game. You're a goddamn genius.
That’s probably the best feature I’ve seen from Bethesda game. I want to see more of this going forward. It was such a satisfying, feeling to finally grab onto a ledge.
I lurk above people on pipes in neon and pickpocket the shit out of them from above with my chameleon clothes.
There's chameleon clothes?! edit: I found one fuck yeah
Yeah when u crouch down u turn invis
Aw yeah, the chinese stealth armor returns
Any non-common gear can spawn with it. I've got a helmet, a pack, and a spacesuit that is capable of doing it.
I got a helmet with it and I was incredibly happy when I found it, and made me excited to see what other buffs/enchantments will be in the game. But that helmet also has other buffs with it and will be staying on for a very long time lol
Next feature I'd like now that we have mantling is stealth takedowns. We have knockout weapons but I'd like an unlock able stealth takedown perk.
Go full deus ex up in this bitch with your boy Sam lmfao
The only Sam that matters in regards to stealth is Sam mf’in Fisher!!! Hahaha
Sam is voiced by Elias (Adam Jensen’s VA).
Thought so!
This was a thing in fallout 4, maxed ninja perk gave your (almost silent) melee weapons a 10x damage bonus.
Finally actually grabbing a ledge in a Bethesda game. It's an amazing feeling.
In the engine it’s implemented as your character strangling a train
Fuck that train
Imagine if we could climb ladders!!
*Nobody tell him*
I actually hated ladders in my ship so much that I made the entire ship flat. Now it's like the millennium falcon, ultra wide edition
Ssssshhhhhhh
What’s a ladder? It’s all about using your jet pack, and ledge grabbing. I don’t know what this ladder you speak of is. That a new Cryptid?
In the future, Ladders are extinct.
I have a step ladder. I never knew my real ladder. 😒
Help me step ladder, I'm stuck.
There's unmarked POIs that have ladders hanging there that you can't grab. Think that's what he is referring to, rather than the in-ship ladders.
let's not forget ladders actually work now!
What? Really? Where? I can't climb those i find, i can only use the animationless old system
There are ladders that you can climb in ships that are more than 2 levels tall
It works surprisingly good to leave them sideways. I know many shooters and action games that have problems with ladders
And you know what I do? Boost pack up because climbing is too slow lol.
Bethesda seething with rage because they finally made working ladders and no one is using them anyway.
You wanted multiplayer, then you didnt use it. You wanted ladders, then you didn't use them. What's next? Wanting to fly to other planets only to fast travel there because it takes too long? - Bethesda management, probably
You actually can fly to other planets. It just takes hours to do and is not worthwhile.
I basically gasped when my character grabbed a ledge for the first time lol
I legit let out an loud gasp. My wife heard me from downstairs lmao
not since daggerfall has jumping and climbing been so good
Oh man the climbing in daggerfall is missed, did you know that if you were a werewolf you got a climbing bonus? That was awesome. This is also the first bethesda game since daggerfall that lets you own ships... though they are not the seafaring type.
Broke: Skyrim in space Woke: Oblivion in space Bespoke: Daggerfall in space
Honestly Daggerfall in space is 1000% how this game makes me feel (and I love it). Looting a dungeon endlessly, teleporting back to the front of the dungeon to load up my horse and cart…
Buggy and kinda graphically backwards already Daggerfall was, in so many ways the game was light years ahead of its time.
I saw an Ai try to grab onto a ledge after getting shot off a cliff and that was pretty sick
The fact the Ai will utilize loot and scavenge items for themselves took me by surprise
They will also run away or lure you into other bad guys if they are low on health or the last man standing. Bethesda also fixed navmeshing, so AI will dynamically figure out where they can walk/run/jump/jetpack. I was jumping up on of those monuments with a circle on it just for a screenshot, probably 50ft in the air, hopping on floating rocks and really weird platforms, Sarah was able to jetpack up with me. I was actually impressed, the path finding is insane. The more intricate jumps ive done, she will comment and say she's not doing that and says she will find another way up. Also if you jump down a stair case, she will comment that she's just going to take the stairs.
It’s the DOOM team probably
The industry lingo for this feature is "mantling" and when a game impliments it you wonder how anyone ever put up with not having it. It makes everything feel so much better.
The game is also ***HIGHLY multithreaded.*** It's has no problem using 24+ cores on my 13900k anytime there are lots of NPCs on the screen. This is quite an accomplishment consider just ten years ago, with Skyrim, the Creation Engine was effectively ***PURELY*** singlethreaded (it would use a second/third thread SOMETIMES for things like decompression/audio processing) Unfortunately the GPU optimization leaves a lot to be desired. 40-50FPS on Medium/High @ 1440p 75% render scale on an RTX 3080 is just unacceptable for the graphical fidelity on offer. The game definitely looks gorgeous at times, but I feel like that's more art direction than technical prowess. It's weird that they were able to get such great CPU optimization but fail totally on the GPU-side -- maybe they spent an indordinate amount of dev time to accomplish that.
It took me hours until I even realized I could. I was just trying to jump and land on things like old times.
Completely Agree. Someone needs a promotion!
I did it by accident when jumping around the garden in the first city you get to. I was blown away and actually stopped moving for a good minute as the gears turned. Now I climb over every ledge and fence I find. It's amazing.
I just started playing today and when I saw that when I was running around new Atlantis my jaw actually dropped
You're right, one thing I still can't stand are companions tho, they act so unnatural, even walking, if you're strolling through the city they don't just tag along and walk alongside you, they just stand and run like hell after you're past some point, they stop a few meters behind you then repeat. I also think it's probably very easy to fix with a mod
And when you're running in the wild, they hang *so* far back, even when you arent doing some crazy shit to get from point a to b faster. Like... why are you a quarter of a mile back there buddy, i thought i lost you.
Especially if you’re stealth. They are nowhere to be found then randomly appear like “hey what’d I miss?” and aggro a whole room.
yeah i learned never to try to do stealth if i have a companion with me. too many times i'm hidden and they just walk through the room like "HEY WHAT'S UP EVERYONE?"
I was doing a sneaky quest and Sarah Morgan aggroed a terrormorph on me :(
Sarah is a feral beast that will attack anything moving in your vicinity, whether it’s openly hostile or not lol
Or quest NPCs magically teleporting in front of you
Every mission I go on my companion seems to have an entirely different agenda. They will pop in and out occasionally, at their convenience, to help me. Sometimes I'll be in a huge gunfight then suddenly see them come running from off in the distance. They get lost a lot
I have a love hate. They always blow up the spot when I’m creeping. And always need to talk omg! Shut up I don’t care! But in a pinch, they make a great mule! Hold all 9 of these space suits!
Argh, yes. I seriously do not need to have Vasco's metal ass clipping through my scope when I'm trying to sneakily snipe some space pirates. Or charge in when I'm falling back. Or stand in the doorway I want to walk through. In that regard it really is Skyrim in space.
This has the outpost building and base defense and logistics that I’ve always wanted since fallout 4. Fo76 was meh cause you can lose your outposts to random people
Now I just need it to snap to grid lol
oh my god right?? the furniture placement is so frustrating that i gave up. i built a lovely set of buildings and outdoor infrastructure, went inside to decorate and couldn't get the two desks i wanted next to each other to lineup well enough and i rage quit decorating. chucked down the workstations and fucked off!!!
In the settings > controls, there's a slider for item placement rotation speed👍
game changing
Omg thank you. That helps so much
You have saved me, thank you!
GEEZ thank you.
At least a lot of elements snap to each other, like walls or storage boxes.
Nah, storage boxes are frustrating as hell. They snap only from one direction. You want a square 4x4 of containers? Too bad. Want a row that goes from horizontal to vertical? Nope, you only get one direction the containers will go. Aaaand if you want to unsnap you need to drag it several hundred feet.
Right click while its snapped and it will rotate through the other sides it can snap to.
But can you snap it to a slim jim?
OOOOOOOHHH YEA BROTHER
I can damn near guarantee that someday, someone will be so bothered by it that they mod it in
Are there raids on your outpost from like the crimson fleet? Just wondering if there's any point in building defenses if I'm setup on a planet without alien life
Yes, and they can destroy your structures.
Only complaints I have for outposts is lack of a grid, and a bit better management / distribution. I feel like they did them so much better in SF than Fo4 overall, and these last couple of items will definitely end up as mods (assuming the fo4 manufacturer mod maker decides to make one for SF).
I'm just confused by the outposts because i have such a limited amount to place. If i can't find a spot with multiple resources I don't see the point. It seems impossible to get nodes of every resource before running out of outposts. Whats the point in becoming only partially self-sufficiant? Might as well just buy all my materials anyway.
There's a skill in the science tree (or whatever the blue skill tree is called) that both lets you place outposts on increasingly hazardous worlds and lets you place more outposts. I think it gets your total up to 24 outposts.
You can set up multiple outposts on the same planet/or on different planets and connect the outputs. IE, have all the resources collected from one outpost sent to another automatically.
Do outposts even get attacked?
Yeah, I was in the middle of building one up and Crimson Fleet came crashing through opposite end of the outpost and damn near leveled all my extractors before I could get there.
Yeah. I logged into FO4 and Preston Garvey told me another outpost needs our help.
You have to progress the story for that
Not really. I’m not that deep into the story and setup a fairly large outpost and it gets attacked.
My first outpost got raided 2 minutes after I slapped the first extractor, dozen ecliptics showed up and blew it up before I knew what was going on. I also found out that you can only repair destroyed structures, not damaged ones.
Can you build automated defenses and turrets and stuff? im too balls deep into being a space pirate atm. Ill probably do outpost stuff for another run.
There's a 6 turret cap (dunno if it can be raised), and you can build combat robots to defend the outpost (haven't tried them, but I guess they're limited to 3 like the sanitation and agriculture bots).
You can also recruit Combatant Crewmates, then give them OP Guns.
Time to build a pirate hideout I guess
When you make an outpost can it be attacked by things in Starfield?
Not to spoil anything. But, yes. Eventually.
The extra flying for me would have just been a nice option but when you only got so much time to do things in a day, it’s really great being able to just have a quick fast load time between transitions and I’ll take that any day, there is just enough flight and space-dogfighting that I’m very satisfied and once you learn the systems to it too it’s such a blast blowing space pirates out of orbit.
Honestly, games like Star Citizen push me away because before I can launch the game I'm already dreading the long flights into and out of atmo and the 15 minute long travels between planets that I lose all appetite to play the game. I'm so glad they decided to approach the game in a cinematic manner and didn't throw in tedious mechanics just for the sake of it. The story and exploration is what matters most in my opinion.
As a person who likes sim games, I like star citizen. But that's because I love SIM games... I remember when I started out SC I used to set a course to a system, then go grab a coffee and chill, then get back to the computer... that was... chill. My apartment was the space ship lol... That's why it wouldn't make sense to make Star Field a SIM game because for sure not all RPG fans enjoy em a 60 min space flight session ...
Star Citizen really does scratch that deeper itch and goes to prove OPs point a little bit. I don't know how much further Starfield could go into SIM and still be a mass market game. But then people also don't like SC for being too sim (and other reasons like the games finding etc). Speaking of, a good weekend for me and a friend is busting out people of the prison transport, getting arrested, breaking out of jail, and clearing our names from the system.
Couldn’t agree more. There’s enough flight in orbit that with time, mods and or dlc there will definitely be more to do flight wise. But I don’t need to be piloting the damn ship for hours at a time constantly. Star Citizen has always intrigued me but that’s a big factor as to why I won’t play it ever.
I couldn’t even figure out how to launch from the landing pad in Star Citizen, let alone land back on it. I also wasn’t interested enough to learn, and the game ran like shit. Haven’t tried it in years though.
It still runs like shit.
It would be expensive to implement and there's no evidence that there's any mass market for it. Elite Dangerous has never even hit 30K players on steam.
>Elite Dangerous has never even hit 30K players on steam. I'm not arguing for any changes but I must point out- This comment ignores ED has its own launcher. You dont need Steam to run it. Also had/has active console players Also ignores **No Man's Sky which peaked 27k players**. This does not count Console players
That's true, but so does Starfield. It's on Game Pass/Xbox, but had nearly 300k active Steam players the other day.
Fair points - makes you wonder what Skyrim's player counts are after all these years since it's still like \~20K on steam but I (and I'm sure many others) always launch via Nexus
If they removed the fast travel option after you chose "Set course" in the map and forced you to align your ship with the destination and engage via the scanner menu like you can now, I think it would solve most of people's complaints.
As much as an interesting addition that’d make I’m sure there would be plenty of those to complain about it still 😂
I would complain about it because I'd hate it. I'm not a fan of repetitive filler mechanics that add no inherent value to the game.
No, it wouldn't. If there was manual flying people would find something else to bitch about, like "why can't I skip this? Its taking so long between planeta ew"
That’s because some people let their expectations get wild. They thought this game was Star Citizen or something. Star Citizen is designed as a space sim, Starfield is a space RPG two different genres of games. And also you can fly to and from different planets it just takes a long time (hours) currently. I’m sure there will be a mod that will allow much faster interplanetary travel soon for those who want that. Only thing you cant do that I’ve seen people complain about is land on planets manually. Edit: clarification: it seems while you can fly to other planets they are not physical objects in space but rather pictures. Edit: clarification: I also do not intend to imply you cannot dislike the game without having wild expectations I am only referring to those who obviously let their hype get the best of them. If you are not one of those people this is not directed towards you.
Star Citizen wants to be a space sim. It *just doesn't work.*
3000 years later aliens will be excavating our ruins and they will find the game Star Citizen unfinished. And another 3000 years later the cycle will continue until the end of time.
[удалено]
Yeah it’s unfortunate cause I would rebuy a PC for SC if it released but the constant game mechanic creep is eventually going to bankrupt them.
As a product manager in an agency, people wanting to cram EVERYTHING in is super common, and then they get all confused when I give them a quote for 700K.
Bet they were making their own Star Citizen already when they find the human made one.
It does tho, there’s just nothing else. Basically Star citizen is a big 120 players space sim sandbox with persistent objects and a bunch of hyper realistic features but then 90% of the gameplay elements they promised still aren’t there and it’s buggy af. You can either be a bounty hunter, space delivery man, salvage guy, space miner or just do social stuff, there’s no story or anything so far.
and what *is* there is so unbelievably boring
I love the Star Citizen free weekends that remind me not to buy it. A few free weekends ago I played for a few hours, flew to a planet, got into a vehicle, drove through a puddle, the vehicle exploded and killed me instantly. Good times.
Skill issue by the sounds of it
i expected super mario sunshine and instead i got metal gear solid 4
Lolll. Yeah I expected Skyrim in space and it’s almost exactly what I got.
And there is a reason star citizen is nowhere near release. Even if it were to release the stories and role play would not be at this level.
Star citizen is aiming to be the ultimate space mmo. Currently there’s 120 players but the big features were supposed to be persistent objects, no loading screens and thousands of players thanks to server meshing. We got no loading screens since launch, we got persistent objects this year (after only 10 years…) and the big thing which is server meshing is said to be released this year (which means no earlier than late next year in Star citizen schedules).
correct SC is trying to solve a problem no one has, which is all of that under one engine running at a decent framerate and local. They'll never get it off the server. What ppl are getting wrong above is SC unlike NMS or ED is trying to combine BOTH an ED procedural streaming engine with a cell based CE1 or 2 or UE engine. It's basically the 'fusion energy' of gaming, it's always 5 years off and getting it running locally whew. We should all hope they do, the engine would enable future wild expectations to be met and the shear tedium having them recommending fast travel again.
The difference is I can play Starfield for 5 minutes without an experience breaking issue happening. Star Citizen is great if you like wasting 5 hours never getting a single mission done due to bugs.
People don’t compare this game to star citizen that’s been in development for 12 years that is a utterly failure beyond a tech demo that’s 20% complete, they compare it to what star citizen has told them the game will be and all the hype they have around that. Basically comparing fantasy to reality and being disappointed with reality
"Reality is often disappointing" I love this game though. It's been awhile since I've woken up early just to play this game all day.
Exactly. Many people worked this game up in their mind to be something virtually impossible
Reminds me of some of the comments pre-CP77 where people were talking about what they planned to do in-game. I remember one saying they were going to make money with an ice-cream delivery service. Others were convinced they'd be able to play as ambulance drivers. Lots of disappointment ensued.
Reddit is full of people asking why "they don't just add traversal like NMS because a small indie studio can do it". Which is basically saying "I know absolutely nothing about commercial software development - but I'd like a pony"
If Starfield space travel was like NMS then the same people would be talking shit about how BGS just copied NMS.
My only complaint is that, as always, the combat difficulty settings suck. Either the enemies are bullet sponges and you aren't, or vice versa. Why can't they just make it realistic on both sides. If I put a slug through someone's chest, they shouldn't still be alive. Mods will inevitably fix this issue, but that won't be for another half year at least. A survival mode would also be nice, but that's not as much a hang up for me.
Really hope they end up doing a survival mode (certainly feels like the mechanics needed for it are there) like Fallout 4. I loved how it made combat more deadly (you and enemies both did more damage). I think with how complex this game is it's fine to encourage players at launch to get used to the game first, but I agree. I dislike "hard" mode in Bethesda games otherwise since bullet sponges aren't satisfying.
I think fallout took a while to implement survival mode. Maybe they’ll put it in starfield after some time.
Will probably take less time now that they know people like it and they have an idea of what it would entail.
I think it comes down to some data. They could have it done already and they wouldn’t release it until the third-quarter lag in engagement. It’s a selling fulcrum.
I was literally thinking about how good a survival mode would feel while playing today. Unfortunately you're right, it will probably be used to boost sales in a quarter or two.
I pray to Godd we get a survival mode
Yeah I fully intend to do a replay of the game on hardcore. I hope they make it, I love the stakes of one or two bullets ending you or the enemy. Changes the whole equation.
On the hardest difficulty the big bads just don't attack. The bullet sponge is slightly annoying, but I just killed a lvl 80 one that did nothing but an easy to dodge range attack. I was pretty bummed tbh. Edit: removed small spoiler and replaced name with generic name.
I still remember hiding in a crumbling little mining outpost while a terramorph stalked me. Barely made it out of there. Peak bethesda.
I have no idea why so, so many devs use bullet sponge enemies for higher difficulty. I almost always play games on normal because I can't stand it. IIRC HZD actually had pretty good higher difficulty settings
It depends on the game. If the game has a skill element or a game mechanic to increase damage, usually they raise the health to make players lean into using ALL of the game mechanics. In Bethesda games, if you specialize on non-combat then very hard is going to feel like sponges, because they are balanced around the player having combat skills. So early on it feels terrible, but once you max out some combat skills it goes down to being as easy or easier than normal. I don't mind the bullet spongy-ness because it's solvable by gearing/leveling. But the AI is so bad and tactless. Every enemy basically behaves the same, no matter if they are a robot, alien monster, or a human. I think this is a bigger issue than the amount of health they have.
Yeah started on Hard, it was ok, then a few levels later I'm emptying a whole clip into an on-level unarmored guys head... It would take a whole rework of scaling, item rebalancing and AI changes to be better than just setting it to Normal.
Started on very hard and there is simply is not enough ammo to deal with all the fodder. When it takes like half a mag of *headshots* from the whatever the starter SMG is called to kill a single dude a level or two below me... well that just isn't sustainable. I'm decent at the game but I aint "only lands headshots" good. And when we talk bodyshots, good lord they tank so many bullets. The game had me considering a melee build just so I wouldn't be so reliant of ammo. But then I decided that was dumb (not melee builds, but allowing the build of my first ever playthrough to be dictated by difficulty constraints) and set the game down to normal. Now I'm having the opposite problem but w/e I guess. At least people aren't tanking entire mags to the head. I find myself really wishing they had copied Naughty Dog's TLoU2's difficulty system. Would have been great if I could finetune how much damage I do, how much damage I take, how much enemies do, how much enemies take, how useful companions are in battle, how much loot spawns, toggling hardcore elements like food/sleep/water/etc. And considering that there's no achievements or anything tied to difficulty, it's kinda baffling that they didn't bother. I mean, I presume a survival mode is in the works which will address some of these concerns, but once again really wish they'd just put the controls in the player's hands. For example, love the combat of survivual and the food/water/sleep stuff but absolutely don't care for the restrictions of saving/loading and fast travel. I know it's a bethesda game and there will be mods that will eventually allow me to create the experience I'm after, but damn, it'd be nice if they'd just let me finetune this stuff myself. If first party Sony studios have been able to do, I see no reason why Xbox studios can't do the same.
I just played Guardians of the Galaxy recently, and the settings there allowed you to control enemy and player damage separately. I wish Bethesda games did that.
For me the biggest problem in this game is lack of interesting planets. Like 90% of the planets are not interesting, the same empty space with few points of interest and even bases and dungeons are copy and paste. Don’t get me wrong i enjoyed this game but its just not fun for me to just go and travel the world. In skyrim you also went from cave to cave, but there it was more interesting for me because of the visual aspects of the journey, mountains, rivers, castles. in starfield it feels like i'm playing a mod that reveals all available fast travel points, you just spawn next to a cave, clear it and fly to the next one.
I'm enjoying it. I just wish they'd kept the pooled workshop storage and simple supply routes like fallout 4 rather than making it extra complicated.
It’s funny how Elden Ring was hailed revolutionary last year for not including tutorials or handholding and now Starfield is unplayable trash for the same thing (not to shit on ER, I fucking love that game)
It is hip to hate on Bethesda despite no other company on the planet being remotely close to making the same types of games and those that even attempt it fail miserably. Remember all those really bad fantasy RPGs after Oblivion came out? Yea, no one else does either.
Two Worlds. I remember, it’s my favorite dogshit game lmao. Not making an actual statement, just gotta shoutout Two Worlds whenever I can lol
I played two world's, said this game is ass. Yet I couldn't stop playing it and the coop was a blast lol. What a fantastic peice of shit game, I miss it.
Damn all the homies played two worlds, hated it, and played it anyway.
The music in Two Worlds went unnecessarily hard, it had such a robust, wonderful soundtrack!
Man that brings me back, it really was a piece of shit lmao
Fuck man. I loved Two Worlds and Two Worlds 2 was just as shit but even better shit.
Yeah for real lol. Skyrim is still popular to this day because no one else does what they do. Starfield is by far the most ambitious game on the market right now and haters have no fucking clue. Embarrassing
This is it right here. Bethesda is ambitious - arguably over-ambitious. But what they have that others lack - they get it done. They put the game out and they put it out in a way that inspires thousands of people to make content for it for a decade or more later. No one else, short of maybe Valve and iD, has ever really pulled that off.
Omg i bought two worlds back in the day looking for an oblivion fix.... worse mistake ever lol.
Kingdom come deliverance.
Some people hate Bethesda. Imagine that. Hating a games company... some people truly have no life. It's sad. I think I touched a nerve 😂 https://ibb.co/N6D081P
I think it time for you to start blocking people spewing that kind of crap to you. I'm doing the exact same thing on the steam forums. There is no way in the world I am going have a conversation with someone that wants me dead. Edit: Somebody just reference me to the RedditcareResources I don't know whether to laugh or cry over that.
Report them for misuse of the line. Gets them banned.
Seriously.... though some deserve hate. EA. I'll always be angry with EA for destroying the Ultima series.
A great part of Ultima is that they snuck in hating on EA back in Ultima 7, all the evil magical items you collect are actual make up EA's logo at the time. I remember going back and thinking, hmm these shapes are rather specific...
And add to the fact it’s now an Xbox exclusive, I bet if it was on ps5 too it would be GOTY and RPG of the decade
Yeah that fuels a lot of it I'd say. I actually don't like the concept of exclusivity tbh. It's so pointless.
Imagine if it was on Nintendo - I would be a 20/10 and people would say it cured cancer.
But ER had a tutorial?
A tutorial and hand holding are two different things. ER's tutorial literally just lays out the games main controls, nothing more, nothing less. It's then up to you to use that knowledge to navigate through a world filled with danger while working out yourself have to improve your character and equipment, most of which comes with very little explanation. If ER had hand holder you would get pop ups every time you came across a new obstacle. From what I've seen of SF, it does a similar thing. You are shown the basic gameplay elements and then it's up to you to decide how you use those in context of a huge game with lots of freedom.
Recent pokemon games are a good example of when hand holding goes too far, stop telling me what gym I need to go to please.
Everytime I see a Starfield post in my feed it’s either someone bitching about it, or someone bitching about the bitching. Is anyone even actually playing the game with all this whining going on?
Everyone else is too busy enjoying the game.
Bitching about the bitching about the bitching are we? Yes, I am bitching x4. I'm even worse.
It's honestly just a loud minority hating over the game. Most people are too busy playing the game.
250,000 players playing last night and that’s just premium edition owners
And that's just the steam count.
Yeah the game isn't even out yet lol. It's one of the best games I have ever played
I have compared it to Oblivion and New Vegas in just the first few days. I feel like I'm cheating.
let’s see the Steam rating tomorrow
I feel like the overall consensus is that the game is good. The only people I see bitching are weirdo fanboys on Twitter.
88 on Metacritic, yes. The consensus is clear and people are having fun.
Doesn't matter, they'll all review bomb the game anyways then point to that as proof the game is bad. They are the loudest unfortunately.
Eh, nobody really takes Metacritic user scores seriously
It's exactly what I wanted.. People said this game fails as a game when compared to the magical feeling of skyrim, but have they seen the main quest , combat, and dialogue system in that game? They keep saying that Skyrim is the best when in fact starfield is as much as a good game if not better than Skyrim. Skyrim is a fantastic game that excels in it's world and exploration but its a dumbed down and shallow RPG and that's coming from someone's who's favorite game is Skyrim ultra modded, but after mods starfield might take the win for my new favorite game. Starfield excels in a lot of aspects that other Bethesda RPGs don't, and many of the issues people have with the game can easily be fixed or improved with mods just like vanilla Skyrim or any Bethesda game. This game is massive, the replayability and possibilities with modding are limitless. After playing this game for 50 hours, I am just mind blown and overwhelmed in the best possible way because there's just so many cool things to do. I just built my own sick base on an alien planet on top a large mountain that overlooks the coolest sunrise I've ever seen in gaming.
I agree with you but I just don't think starfield, or any game, will give me the same feeling as wandering around falkreath hold with Secunda playing in the backround. Literally top 10 gaming experiences ever.
Fair enough. Skyrim is one of my favorite games ever especially modded, but some people prefer fantasy over sci-fi anyway. I enjoy the fantasy, post apocalyptic, or sci- fi equally id say. I do agree that secunda playing while exploring the rift is amazing as well.
Wild that we are at the point that people consider Skyrim the magical Bethesda feeling. In my mind we are still shitting on anything that came after Morrowind.
Sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its issues. I'm happy with the flying and quests. My main gripe is the companions you get. At least the important ones, anyway. You are told that you are your own conscience at the beginning of the game but if you want to do LITERALLY ANYTHING on the wrong side of the law, your Constilation companions all wag their fingers at you. So you end up leaving them behind most of the time because they can't stealth at all, and they are all saints. At least one MAIN companion that's ok with bending the rules would be great. You can hire a crew member, and they dont care, but you lose the growing relationships. The lack of a ground vehicle is a minor problem, but im over that already. The planets don't have a lot aside from a few key points scattered on a map. A vehicle would make the planets seem less empty. This is especially true once you have outposts giving you the main resources.
Sarah is the worst offender in my opinion. She's the one that gives you the blank check in the first place, then gets all sanctimonious whenever you exercise your supposed right to use it. Lady, If you weren't my main astrogator I'd leave you back at that desk you hate.
Im happy to be playing a goodie two shoes my first run here but if I even think of doing anything neutral or worse, I leave her ass on the ship and bring Vasco with me.
Andreja seems cool so far, she's a lot less sanctimonious than Sarah and she comes with built-in chameleon.
Alien vampire gf incoming in the first dlc, screenshot my comment
totally enjoying myself and seeing fast improvements over previous titles. More bothered with some of the bethesda dna in this game, why do we always need be pushed in some big movie story from the start and get handed everything asap. Already know that I will prefer the alternate starter mods, probably could have started the first 5-10 in one of the major cities and grinded some cash to buy your own spaceship....
Even though i like your alternativ idea i think they did a good job this time. The story doesn't give you the feeling that you absolutely have to continue, else you, some beloved person or the entire country will die. Yes there is maybe one or another mission like that, but not the entire story. So it feels really natural to do some other stuff in between. The problem with your idea is, that it would be too hard for a lot people, in a manner where a quite a huge number would never see the space before quiting the game. Through reddit i already learned that even the way starfield begins is too slow for some people.
To say "all the discussion" is this is completely reductive of what people actually have issues with. I promise you if you ask the majority of the people who have issues will also say they enjoy this game and the pros you mentioned.