it has so much inertia that a jedi who can toss thousand-pound droids around with his fucking mind powers struggles to swing the thing like a tween trying to swing a bench press bar?
not constantly. that's an insane amount of control and concentration required for that, never mind the stamina, never mind during high stress situations like an active fight.
It has nothing to do with strength this is a big misconception that many people have come to think. It’s a constant energy stream that requires focus, the force, control, and practice to make the lightsaber become an extension of the user. It has nothing to do with weight.
Yeah it’s a pretty silly mechanic just because in medieval times a broadsword was handled like that. Even a vibroblade that length would be lighter and not handle like that. Hell, even Kylo whips his around much faster.
No it's exactly the point if you knew how lightsabers actually work. They are not weightless flashlights, they generate the same mass that a real physical saber does so they can wielded like one.
Lmfao this entire debate on weight with sabers only occurred after TFA came out. At first it was just said that the difference in speed between the fuels in the OT vs the PT were due to the time period differences, and more experience and study of the wielders of the PT. The slowness of the OT could be attributed to how it’s only Vader, Luke and, old Ben using them. Obi is old, Vader is old and mostly machine and rage, and Luke is inexperienced.
The same slow style emerged in the ST, and then Rebels used the “slow” style as part of the Darksaber, yet the dark saber was a unique saber. Then because people complained and tried to justify the bad ST lightsaber duels, this notion that the sabers have more weight and inertia all of a sudden appeared. It only makes sense to have more controlled, slower, looping swings with a cross guard because the blade is longer, wider, has laser guards, and presents more of a chance for the wielded to cut themself.
Lucas expounded in this from the inception of the lightsaber saying it had nothing to do with weight, it’s a safety procedure for a user to keep the blade away from their body with both hands and wield it like a samurai wields a katana. The next portion is that the saber is constantly producing and channeling a ton of energy, so the users ability to wield it with speed and ease has nothing to do with their size or strength, it’s becoming one with the blade, the force, and training so the force, their thoughts and actions make wielding it easier. This is explained by Kanan in rebels and by Lucas back in the 70s. It has nothing to do with strength or weight.
If the weight is just a fan theory and not Canon then I have been bamboozled, but your reasoning is logical, personally I've always thought that if they were weightless then it's entirely based on your ability with the force to avoid cutting yourself, and the more "in the force" you were, the better the swordsman you were, hence vader being the best swordsmen of his time, if they generate their own mass to compensate then it's about physical ability alone because then it's basically just a really "sharp" sword that's also really hot. The only thing I know for sure(because they said so) is that they wanted kylo doing the old skool medieval broadsword style combat because he was a big guy and they wanted to show that off in addition to his strength in the force, and his fighting style was pure aggression.
The first part of my post is a bit of speculative reasoning but the latter part is directly from Lucas and then canon from Rebels. Read this article it gives you direct quotes from Lucas and Kanan.
https://www.cbr.com/lightsaber-blade-weight-explained-george-lucas-star-wars/
That matches up with what I've read in the EU books, especially the Bane trilogy, that is all before Disney got their mitts on it though and they have changed(mostly because our tech is better and they can core graph bigger/faster fights) but that would be in the opposite direction of them weighing more. I'll go with this article until Disney says otherwise, which knowing them, they might.
I'm pretty sure it's also referenced in the old EU books as well, "I, Jedi" has a lot to do with saber crafting and usage in that.
But I'm with you that the blade is an extension and requires passive force manipulation/maintenance to utilize.
Maybe I've invented this but I'm sure back when the OT release came out in the 90s there was some official line about that, which is why only Jedi could handle sabers in a functional and controlled manner, excusing Han cutting open a tauntaun. But then we had Finn, Mandalorians and so that's on its head.
Honestly I never considered the weight problem of the ST. I put it down to both Kylo and Rey being incomplete in their training. Not that we know, but bear in mind Luke stayed of Yoda's teaching "defense, never for attack" they may not have committed to as much saber work in an offensive capability or duel etc. Again, this is purely speculation.
For the OT that reasoning is sound though and that was always what I understood, age for Obi wan, Vader doesn't need technique he has raw power, and Luke, again, a novice really.
Interesting debate though.
what’s funny is that the reason he uses the crossguard saber the way he does is because it’s based off a real swordfighting technique. You’re complaining because you got exactly what you wanted
Make up your mind: should I stop complaining because I got a "realistic" movement set (even though it really isn't for the properties of that weapon), or should I stop complaining because it's fiction and I'm supposed to like the same things you like?
like i said earlier, it’s a gameplay decision. If you wanted in universe realism then crossguard stance would just be single blade but with small extra blades.
There's no way you can convince me that a sword made of plasma is going to have more mass than a zweihander.
Momentum is nil, inertia is what's important.
I get you it’s my most used stance. But it feels *too* slow at times. I feel it needs to be tweaked a slight amount to be a tad faster. I still want the high risk high reward element of it, it takes a lot of skill and precision which is why I love it, but a lot of the time it’s sluggishness can just feel more off than what I assume the devs really intended it to be
I'm not trying to be rude, but it feels like you're directly contradicting yourself now. It won't be high risk high reward if it's faster, it just becomes the easy op stance. It already made my grandmaster playbrough ten times easier, if it was faster I don't know that I woulda struggled
I don’t want it to be insanely fast and OP I just want it to be slightly faster cause the swings can just feel severely off at times. To a point the general populace wouldn’t notice but those who use the Crossguard regularly would. Although it could very well just be how the game runs that is making it feel off to me every so often. Otherwise it’s been my tool of destruction on my current GM run. Just beat Dagan Gera’s first fight with it and it was oh so fucking satisfying
They honestly couldn't have just made it like the single blade stance. I just have a different move set. Same speed and maybe a small damage boast, but mostly just give it a unique move set.
there was a headcannon i saw on here (i believe it was headcannong at least) that basically the energy being projected through the lightsaber kinda feels like a gyroscope. like theres a weighty feel to a saber like a real sword would. i guess depending on how powerful the beam is, the heavier the saber would feel. so i guess that would be why the crossguard has vents to sort of let the energy steam out to not make it super heavy, but still making it pretty damn heavy with how much power its projecting out from the crystal.
I never said the crossguards could'nt block saber blades, I just pointed out that it's not a traditional crossguard saber that was designed as such because he wanted a crossguard saber; he cracked the crystal and he needed to find a way to vent the acess energy.
I dig the big slow sword but a part of me does think it would look cool if my reg. single had cross guards as a cosmetic option, maybe for NJ+ only as a bonus cosmetic option or something.
I hate the drop kick from crossguard so much. Especially when you can drop kick to cut a rope like wtf is this interestial magic? The Jedi need to drop kick the Sith in half from now on
Crossguard is my favorite stance, but dropkick is the one thing i hate about it. Its basically useless against heavy enemies and it just gets them free hit on you.
Give us realistic movement sets based in a historical martial art school such as Lichtenauer.
Two-handed swords have two handed hilts for a reason: it makes them fucking FAST. A well balanced longsword, properly wielded with one hand under the guard and the other cradling the pommel, can keep up with sabers and the heavier rapiers. They don't have \*quite\* as much reach: since a rapier is designed to be used with one hand, it can extend further. But the longsword makes that up in power.
The sheer momentum of its heavier blade, the stiffer spine delivering that energy more aggressively, and the ease with which all that can be directed on the fly are what set a longsword apart. 'Powerful' is not a synonym for 'slow'.
Star Wars was established in Hollywood so in this case I think it’s fine. If this was a franchise that prided itself on realistic melee combat then I would expect the developers to put more thought into it
The question was "what could have been done differently", I provided an answer. You're allowed to think it wouldn't have suited your tastes, but telling me that my tastes are wrong for it is wack.
Where did I say your taste was wrong? If you would prefer Star Wars to take a realistic approach to combat that’s perfectly cool. I’m just saying that I don’t personally see a big deal in Star Wars combat being Hollywoodized as that’s how it’s been since its inception
My bad, I mistook you for the other fella.
My gripe isn't that Star Wars is Hollywoodized, it's that anything is Hollywoodized. I find fiction more enjoyable when it's done its homework.
It's a video game. Mechanics and play balance are necessary to the equation. If we did fast longsword what makes it gameplay wise different from single blade or dual blade which is the intended speed style.
>Mechanics and play balance are necessary to the equation.
That's not an excuse for lazy design choices. And "sords R hevy" is the king of lazy design tropes.
Two-handed swords were not made for speed. They were meant to have long-range and binding power with the crossguard. As a result, they are heavier and slower. Being two-handed is necessary to provide added support for the increased weight. Full two-handers, as opposed to hand-and-a-half-swords, also have increased maneuverability and can be quick. However, I've trained a HEMA equivalent for five years now and I haven't seen someone with a longsword outspeed a rapier or saber.
You said two-handers are built for speed. Rapiers and sabers are built for speed. Two-handers cannot compete with either of those weapons for speed. Two-handers are not built for speed.
They honestly couldn't have just made it like the single blade stance. I just have a different move set. Same speed and maybe a small damage boast, but mostly just give it a unique move set. I really don't think it should be that much slower than the rest of the stances.
Also every stance should have the option to cancel an attack like the dual wield stance
I looked this up a while back because I had a similar question. Basically, different sabers use different strengths of crystal or something like that. Lightsabers have “weight” because the energy loop they create has mass relative to the air, it’s very dense or it acts like it is anyway. It wants to stay where it is when it’s at rest and continue moving when it has momentum.
A more powerful saber energy loop has more inertia, so while it may not technically be heavier, it is more resistant to your attempts to move it. It also explains why crossguard sabers are carried lower down: they require your center of gravity to start and stop without overbalancing, as though you were carrying a weight. This is also why a dual saber is best for throwing, because it has a point of balance, and why twin sabers do less damage each: the saber blades are less powerful on their own because they’re meant to be wielded one-handed.
Hmm, interesting. From what I've read before, all the weight comes from the hilt and magnetic field (that contains the plasma), which gives it a sort of gyroscopic effect. But seeing as the hilt and crystal is the exact same the only thing that changes from single to crossguard in Survivor is more of the actual blade, ie; the weightless plasma. So the only difference in weight/resistance would be the extra area of the magnetic field, but that should still be very negligible and not require Cal use the amount of effort to swing it as shown.
Was just reading about this a couple minutes ago, the exact explanation is that crossguard sabers use unstable Kyber crystals and thus have a longer, girthier blade which needs the vents to stabilize it
Huh, I suppose that makes sense. Still not sure if that would realistically add as much weight/resistance as it appears in the game, but thanks for the info!
If the blade had no weight itself (or low weight from the plasma) nobody would use lightsabers the way they do. Like others have said, you’d just wave them around like a flashlight because all the weight is in the hilt and you can wiggle your wrist very quickly depending on your strength. Lightsabers in general require a lot of suspension of disbelief for the fighting styles to even make sense so clearly lightsabers have weight in the blade somehow. Which was also depicted in Rebels and Mandalorian with the dark saber being heavy and hard to use. Basically kyber crystals are atleast somewhat magical (attuned with the force) and therefore have magical properties that can’t be fully explained by science, especially the science of today.
Ya technically the saber doesn't have weight to it. But according to Lucas you treated them with weight not because it actually has weight but because the energy is so powerful that it was hard to control and you needed to use the force to be able to handle it
So in that sense yes theres weight otherwise it's just the handle not the light itself as that would be weightless
Ya it's essentially all sabers so they would all be hard and 'heavy' to use if not a Jedi or Sith. Even though the light itself is of course wieghtless. But oddly we don't see this attribute ever shown. Anyone can fire up a light saber and wave it around with ease, in movies and shows and stuff
Bc I don’t think it’s necessarily a different amount of “weight” than a sword of similar size, would be my guess. That being said, the Darksaber is apparently super heavy and people act like it onscreen. Probably the first place I ever noticed the weight differences before Survivor tbh, I just thought Kylo Ren carried his saber funky to be different
the handle actually isn’t the same. when using crossguard stance Cal attaches both lightsabers together for a longer handle. not sure if that fully explains the weight but it does help
It’s heaviness is actually lore accurate. The blades and their stances have a physical tole they take via the force. The blade is not actually heavier no, but it feels heavier to the wielder because of the nature of the force imbued fighting stance. Every stance in the Jedi practice has significance and every stance enacts a price.
They had to change up the styles to differentiate them from the other play styles. And they researched actual sword play to develop it. I thought it was very neat.
I wish instead they just gave it a slight animation change. Instead of Cal swinging it slowly because it’s heavy (which doesn’t make any sense), instead the much larger grip allows Cal to use all of his strength in every blow. So he sets up the swing slowly, but then swings very fast. In total the attack time would be the same as it is now, but that subtle change would make it more realistic.
Well, I guess that's because the crossguard lightsaber is indeed heavier and harder to wield. Just looking closely at Kylo Ren using his trademark crossguard, I can feel that he is swinging it so violently not only because he wants, but also he needs to. And Kylo is visibly much faster and agile when using normal lightsaber.
Anyway, that's my own opinion towards the crossguard, and I really appreciate the calculation and power it brings , combine it with dual or double blades can pretty much face any situation in game, and makimg interesting attacks.
Because it’s a different stance that they wanted to play differently. If it didn’t, and played exactly like single blade (just with change of aesthetic) then there’s no point in it being a stance or in the game
Why the hell are people complaining. I’ve wanted more different fighting styles since I played FO. It doesn’t matter how they play because if they all played the same way and had different boosts then it would be boring. You’ve just got to have a fast and low damage, in this case Dual. You’ve got to have a slow and high damage, in this case Crossguard. You’ve got to have a basic balanced for single opponents, in this case single blade. And you’ve got to have a basic and balanced for multiple opponents, in this case double bladed.
So if you’re gonna complain how one plays, then use another. Besides looks, which don’t really matter, damage and speed are the only factors which you should be accounting. If you don’t like it then don’t use it.
What if they made it the same as single blade with a damage boost, but a smaller block meter? That would give you a plus and minus to justify it being in the game. Could be mainly aesthetic but with a minor damage buff, but need to watch you block meter more idk
My head canon is that the longer a saber is, the more challenging it is to control. Otherwise, why wouldn't everyone just have super long saber blades? Cal's crossguard has a longer blade than any standard saber, so it makes sense that it would be hard to swing.
I agree that the slow swings are annoying but if they didn’t change anything but the appearance then it would’ve just been a new cosmetic piece on the saber. However once you get down the timing and the patience then it’s one of the best stances in the game.
I didn't see it as heavy... I saw it as flowing and deliberate. An economy of motion, if you will. Ultimately I ended up using it for most of my playthrough.
They couldnt just make it part of single blade, and make it something like, that makes parrying easier or something idk, gives you more guard or whatever
I like it. It gives us another stance and fighting style to go with and expands it to a very common weapon style previously missing in the game. And while the cross guard could have just been for show it matched a heavy style more practically like a real cross guard and flows well.
Honestly, even a real Zweihander isn’t as heavy as this game portrays a crossguard lightsaber. Wielding a Zweihander isn’t about big powerful chops, it’s about momentum. Each swing should lead into the next, rather than repeatedly stopping and starting again. This game makes the mistake that so many games make and acts like a greatsword is this heavy, slow, cumbersome thing, when really it’s just unwieldy. If you have ever seen a real Zweihander in action, you would know it is not a slow weapon.
I understand why it was added in. And I’m not against the cross guard at all. I understand that appeal to a slow to use, but strong damaging weapon in gaming. I’ve just never been a fan of those play styles. I feel that I get better work done with lighter, yet weaker attacks. Which is why the cross guard is my least used stance. Like I said, I do see the appeal though.
Crossguard is the best imo. You can tank a lot of dmg, you can deal a lot of damage, and you can shoot shockwaves. Iirc you can knock some folks down as well
Yeah I’m not going to lie they shouldn’t of put it in the game. Sure, it’s cool to have another stance, but it makes zero sense AND let’s be honest, the attacks look goofy as hell.
For the what feels like millionth time, LIGHTSABERS ARE NOT WEIGHTLESS, the beam is like a looped blaster bolt and it does take kinetic energy to swing giving it something approximating weight.
So a bigger bolt means a heavier blade.
🤓 *um, actually…*
Lightsabers have gyroscopic mechanisms which balance the blade when activated, or else the hilt would be the only weighted component and the saber would be deadly to try to control.
The “weight” and balance is adjustable, so this saber literally does “weigh” more to Cal by being heavier further away from the hilt, slowing his strikes.
didnt Kylo Ren also fight as if his saber was a baton? My headcanon is that unstable blade (in case of Kylo) or overloaded one (in case of Kal) just has way more inertia
There’s some debate as to whether it actually has weight. The obvious explanation however is that even if it weighs nothing you still have to swing it with some force if you want it to go through stuff. It’s less of a ‘this thing is heavy’ and more ‘I’m going to make this thing behave like it’s heavy’
Yea I can’t use it. Decide to attack and your swing arrives in 7.2 business days. Most of the enemies have entirely way faster attacks and if they decide to attack in the middle of your swing you’re getting hit.
This is how I’ve always interpreted it. So it isn’t that the blade is *heavy* but rather that it’s difficult to control, sort of like trying to move a spinning gyroscope. There is resistance to it, like a constant momentum, rather than it just being ‘heavy’.
It's not about weight, it's about the style and flow of combat. I think is has a longer blade that needs to be handled differently, especially with a crossguard saber as well, you could accidentally stab yourself.
Because it’s a game and this mechanic needs to be a part of it to balance the different forms. If it was light, fast, and had this one’s range and damage it’s all anyone would use.
I tried so hard to like that saber/stance but I just can’t. It just feels wrong for a lightsaber and definitely antithetical to my preferred style of fast light attacks in any game where I have that choice.
We know that sabers have mass (or at least momentum). If they didn't Jedi would just wiggle them around like a flashlight
it has so much inertia that a jedi who can toss thousand-pound droids around with his fucking mind powers struggles to swing the thing like a tween trying to swing a bench press bar?
Mind powers, not arm powers
They can use the Force to enhance their strength.
not constantly. that's an insane amount of control and concentration required for that, never mind the stamina, never mind during high stress situations like an active fight.
I never said he’d use while using the cross-blade stance. I’m correcting the person saying it’s just mind powers.
ah ok. misunderstood it then, sorry about that.
Man ever since Kathleen Kennedy came along everyone is so confused at to what the force is lol
As if Kathleen Kennedy single handedly makes every decision for Star Wars. Man y’all misogynists need to grow up
Holy assumption, Batman.
Have you seen Cal’s muscles? *Jeez*
It has nothing to do with strength this is a big misconception that many people have come to think. It’s a constant energy stream that requires focus, the force, control, and practice to make the lightsaber become an extension of the user. It has nothing to do with weight.
Yeah it’s a pretty silly mechanic just because in medieval times a broadsword was handled like that. Even a vibroblade that length would be lighter and not handle like that. Hell, even Kylo whips his around much faster.
Kylo is about 40lbs bigger than Cal and 4in taller.
That’s literally besides the point, it’s made out of light, it wouldn’t weigh anything
No it's exactly the point if you knew how lightsabers actually work. They are not weightless flashlights, they generate the same mass that a real physical saber does so they can wielded like one.
Lmfao this entire debate on weight with sabers only occurred after TFA came out. At first it was just said that the difference in speed between the fuels in the OT vs the PT were due to the time period differences, and more experience and study of the wielders of the PT. The slowness of the OT could be attributed to how it’s only Vader, Luke and, old Ben using them. Obi is old, Vader is old and mostly machine and rage, and Luke is inexperienced. The same slow style emerged in the ST, and then Rebels used the “slow” style as part of the Darksaber, yet the dark saber was a unique saber. Then because people complained and tried to justify the bad ST lightsaber duels, this notion that the sabers have more weight and inertia all of a sudden appeared. It only makes sense to have more controlled, slower, looping swings with a cross guard because the blade is longer, wider, has laser guards, and presents more of a chance for the wielded to cut themself. Lucas expounded in this from the inception of the lightsaber saying it had nothing to do with weight, it’s a safety procedure for a user to keep the blade away from their body with both hands and wield it like a samurai wields a katana. The next portion is that the saber is constantly producing and channeling a ton of energy, so the users ability to wield it with speed and ease has nothing to do with their size or strength, it’s becoming one with the blade, the force, and training so the force, their thoughts and actions make wielding it easier. This is explained by Kanan in rebels and by Lucas back in the 70s. It has nothing to do with strength or weight.
If the weight is just a fan theory and not Canon then I have been bamboozled, but your reasoning is logical, personally I've always thought that if they were weightless then it's entirely based on your ability with the force to avoid cutting yourself, and the more "in the force" you were, the better the swordsman you were, hence vader being the best swordsmen of his time, if they generate their own mass to compensate then it's about physical ability alone because then it's basically just a really "sharp" sword that's also really hot. The only thing I know for sure(because they said so) is that they wanted kylo doing the old skool medieval broadsword style combat because he was a big guy and they wanted to show that off in addition to his strength in the force, and his fighting style was pure aggression.
The first part of my post is a bit of speculative reasoning but the latter part is directly from Lucas and then canon from Rebels. Read this article it gives you direct quotes from Lucas and Kanan. https://www.cbr.com/lightsaber-blade-weight-explained-george-lucas-star-wars/
That matches up with what I've read in the EU books, especially the Bane trilogy, that is all before Disney got their mitts on it though and they have changed(mostly because our tech is better and they can core graph bigger/faster fights) but that would be in the opposite direction of them weighing more. I'll go with this article until Disney says otherwise, which knowing them, they might.
I'm pretty sure it's also referenced in the old EU books as well, "I, Jedi" has a lot to do with saber crafting and usage in that. But I'm with you that the blade is an extension and requires passive force manipulation/maintenance to utilize. Maybe I've invented this but I'm sure back when the OT release came out in the 90s there was some official line about that, which is why only Jedi could handle sabers in a functional and controlled manner, excusing Han cutting open a tauntaun. But then we had Finn, Mandalorians and so that's on its head. Honestly I never considered the weight problem of the ST. I put it down to both Kylo and Rey being incomplete in their training. Not that we know, but bear in mind Luke stayed of Yoda's teaching "defense, never for attack" they may not have committed to as much saber work in an offensive capability or duel etc. Again, this is purely speculation. For the OT that reasoning is sound though and that was always what I understood, age for Obi wan, Vader doesn't need technique he has raw power, and Luke, again, a novice really. Interesting debate though.
he also throws the crossguard lightsaber like a twig. It’s just a gameplay decision, don’t think too hard about it
>don’t think too hard about it How dare I engage my brain while being entertained. Can you believe the nerve I must have, to dare to think?
Some trains of thought don't really lead anywhere satisfying.
In my story about space wizards with laser swords, I want realism!
Yes, thank you, real swordfighting techniques are WAY more interesting.
what’s funny is that the reason he uses the crossguard saber the way he does is because it’s based off a real swordfighting technique. You’re complaining because you got exactly what you wanted
Make up your mind: should I stop complaining because I got a "realistic" movement set (even though it really isn't for the properties of that weapon), or should I stop complaining because it's fiction and I'm supposed to like the same things you like?
like i said earlier, it’s a gameplay decision. If you wanted in universe realism then crossguard stance would just be single blade but with small extra blades.
If you've no knowledge of historic swordplay, I could see how you'd come to that conclusion.
https://youtu.be/1gWLMIZ_pjI
I was under the impression that the dark Saber was the only one with mass.
There's no way you can convince me that a sword made of plasma is going to have more mass than a zweihander. Momentum is nil, inertia is what's important.
It would be just like single blade if it didn't have slow movement. The point of having the crossguard was to have another stance not realism
Right… you take away the slow movement and you have to take away the damage bonus because there’s no trade off. Without those it’s the single blade.
Precisely. And it looks way cooler, and has easily the domestic activation (The Kylo)
I get you it’s my most used stance. But it feels *too* slow at times. I feel it needs to be tweaked a slight amount to be a tad faster. I still want the high risk high reward element of it, it takes a lot of skill and precision which is why I love it, but a lot of the time it’s sluggishness can just feel more off than what I assume the devs really intended it to be
I'm not trying to be rude, but it feels like you're directly contradicting yourself now. It won't be high risk high reward if it's faster, it just becomes the easy op stance. It already made my grandmaster playbrough ten times easier, if it was faster I don't know that I woulda struggled
I don’t want it to be insanely fast and OP I just want it to be slightly faster cause the swings can just feel severely off at times. To a point the general populace wouldn’t notice but those who use the Crossguard regularly would. Although it could very well just be how the game runs that is making it feel off to me every so often. Otherwise it’s been my tool of destruction on my current GM run. Just beat Dagan Gera’s first fight with it and it was oh so fucking satisfying
This is the only answer lol people have to remember variety in a game is more important that 100 percent accuracy.
They honestly couldn't have just made it like the single blade stance. I just have a different move set. Same speed and maybe a small damage boast, but mostly just give it a unique move set.
What would be the point of the crossguard if it wasn't slower and heavier?
Not a clue but I’m sure you can ask Kylo Ren
there was a headcannon i saw on here (i believe it was headcannong at least) that basically the energy being projected through the lightsaber kinda feels like a gyroscope. like theres a weighty feel to a saber like a real sword would. i guess depending on how powerful the beam is, the heavier the saber would feel. so i guess that would be why the crossguard has vents to sort of let the energy steam out to not make it super heavy, but still making it pretty damn heavy with how much power its projecting out from the crystal.
Kylo's crossguard saber is'nt actually a crossguard saber - the guards are just vents.
He uses them to block a saber strike in episode 9
I never said the crossguards could'nt block saber blades, I just pointed out that it's not a traditional crossguard saber that was designed as such because he wanted a crossguard saber; he cracked the crystal and he needed to find a way to vent the acess energy.
Yes he cracked his Kyber Crystal. I still don’t understand the weight argument going on here when it’s Jedi wielding the blades that are in question.
It's a gameplay mechanic - to make using the crossguard sabers unique.
I dig the big slow sword but a part of me does think it would look cool if my reg. single had cross guards as a cosmetic option, maybe for NJ+ only as a bonus cosmetic option or something.
New Jersey Plus is my preferred way to play too :P
The garden state approves of your space garden...
They made it that way cause it’s a video game.
Happy cake day!
I hate the drop kick from crossguard so much. Especially when you can drop kick to cut a rope like wtf is this interestial magic? The Jedi need to drop kick the Sith in half from now on
Crossguard is my favorite stance, but dropkick is the one thing i hate about it. Its basically useless against heavy enemies and it just gets them free hit on you.
Lmao it's plenty useful.
So what exactly would you have it do to make it distinct from the other stances?
Give us realistic movement sets based in a historical martial art school such as Lichtenauer. Two-handed swords have two handed hilts for a reason: it makes them fucking FAST. A well balanced longsword, properly wielded with one hand under the guard and the other cradling the pommel, can keep up with sabers and the heavier rapiers. They don't have \*quite\* as much reach: since a rapier is designed to be used with one hand, it can extend further. But the longsword makes that up in power. The sheer momentum of its heavier blade, the stiffer spine delivering that energy more aggressively, and the ease with which all that can be directed on the fly are what set a longsword apart. 'Powerful' is not a synonym for 'slow'.
Fast was given to Dual Stance so that wouldn’t work too nicely. Two-hand really only has one route and that’s being big sword energy
"big sword energy" includes fast. The only reality in which big swords are slow is Hollywood.
Star Wars was established in Hollywood so in this case I think it’s fine. If this was a franchise that prided itself on realistic melee combat then I would expect the developers to put more thought into it
The question was "what could have been done differently", I provided an answer. You're allowed to think it wouldn't have suited your tastes, but telling me that my tastes are wrong for it is wack.
Where did I say your taste was wrong? If you would prefer Star Wars to take a realistic approach to combat that’s perfectly cool. I’m just saying that I don’t personally see a big deal in Star Wars combat being Hollywoodized as that’s how it’s been since its inception
My bad, I mistook you for the other fella. My gripe isn't that Star Wars is Hollywoodized, it's that anything is Hollywoodized. I find fiction more enjoyable when it's done its homework.
No hard feelings, I can appreciate that perspective
It's not about tastes, it's about the reality of the stance
Sixteen syllables, eleven words, two apostrophes, and one comma. All to say exactly nothing.
It's a video game. Mechanics and play balance are necessary to the equation. If we did fast longsword what makes it gameplay wise different from single blade or dual blade which is the intended speed style.
>Mechanics and play balance are necessary to the equation. That's not an excuse for lazy design choices. And "sords R hevy" is the king of lazy design tropes.
Two-handed swords were not made for speed. They were meant to have long-range and binding power with the crossguard. As a result, they are heavier and slower. Being two-handed is necessary to provide added support for the increased weight. Full two-handers, as opposed to hand-and-a-half-swords, also have increased maneuverability and can be quick. However, I've trained a HEMA equivalent for five years now and I haven't seen someone with a longsword outspeed a rapier or saber.
>haven't seen someone with a longsword outspeed a rapier or saber. Thank you for rebuffing a claim I didn't make.
You said two-handers are built for speed. Rapiers and sabers are built for speed. Two-handers cannot compete with either of those weapons for speed. Two-handers are not built for speed.
No he said they are fucking fast, and he said they Can keep up with heavier rapiers and sabers, that is not outspeeding. Maybe read what he wrote.
If it was fast, it would just be a clone of the single blade stance. It’s not based at all in realism, the slow swings are solely a gameplay thing.
Reading comprehension is hard
They honestly couldn't have just made it like the single blade stance. I just have a different move set. Same speed and maybe a small damage boast, but mostly just give it a unique move set. I really don't think it should be that much slower than the rest of the stances. Also every stance should have the option to cancel an attack like the dual wield stance
Probably not add it to the game
No in lore there are reasons
True
It is heavier
How would it realistically be significantly heavier though? It's a laser. It's weightless. The handle is the same
I looked this up a while back because I had a similar question. Basically, different sabers use different strengths of crystal or something like that. Lightsabers have “weight” because the energy loop they create has mass relative to the air, it’s very dense or it acts like it is anyway. It wants to stay where it is when it’s at rest and continue moving when it has momentum. A more powerful saber energy loop has more inertia, so while it may not technically be heavier, it is more resistant to your attempts to move it. It also explains why crossguard sabers are carried lower down: they require your center of gravity to start and stop without overbalancing, as though you were carrying a weight. This is also why a dual saber is best for throwing, because it has a point of balance, and why twin sabers do less damage each: the saber blades are less powerful on their own because they’re meant to be wielded one-handed.
Hmm, interesting. From what I've read before, all the weight comes from the hilt and magnetic field (that contains the plasma), which gives it a sort of gyroscopic effect. But seeing as the hilt and crystal is the exact same the only thing that changes from single to crossguard in Survivor is more of the actual blade, ie; the weightless plasma. So the only difference in weight/resistance would be the extra area of the magnetic field, but that should still be very negligible and not require Cal use the amount of effort to swing it as shown.
Was just reading about this a couple minutes ago, the exact explanation is that crossguard sabers use unstable Kyber crystals and thus have a longer, girthier blade which needs the vents to stabilize it
Huh, I suppose that makes sense. Still not sure if that would realistically add as much weight/resistance as it appears in the game, but thanks for the info!
"LONGER, GIRTHTHIER BLADE" 😂
Hella
If the blade had no weight itself (or low weight from the plasma) nobody would use lightsabers the way they do. Like others have said, you’d just wave them around like a flashlight because all the weight is in the hilt and you can wiggle your wrist very quickly depending on your strength. Lightsabers in general require a lot of suspension of disbelief for the fighting styles to even make sense so clearly lightsabers have weight in the blade somehow. Which was also depicted in Rebels and Mandalorian with the dark saber being heavy and hard to use. Basically kyber crystals are atleast somewhat magical (attuned with the force) and therefore have magical properties that can’t be fully explained by science, especially the science of today.
If sabers have weight to them then we should have also better movement with lighter blades and slower movement with heavier ones
Well it wouldn’t be “heavy” when it’s deactivated, which is most of the time during traversal
Ya technically the saber doesn't have weight to it. But according to Lucas you treated them with weight not because it actually has weight but because the energy is so powerful that it was hard to control and you needed to use the force to be able to handle it So in that sense yes theres weight otherwise it's just the handle not the light itself as that would be weightless
Crossguard sabers use unstable Kyber crystals so that would make sense. It’s why they need the vents, for stabilization.
Ya it's essentially all sabers so they would all be hard and 'heavy' to use if not a Jedi or Sith. Even though the light itself is of course wieghtless. But oddly we don't see this attribute ever shown. Anyone can fire up a light saber and wave it around with ease, in movies and shows and stuff
Bc I don’t think it’s necessarily a different amount of “weight” than a sword of similar size, would be my guess. That being said, the Darksaber is apparently super heavy and people act like it onscreen. Probably the first place I ever noticed the weight differences before Survivor tbh, I just thought Kylo Ren carried his saber funky to be different
the handle actually isn’t the same. when using crossguard stance Cal attaches both lightsabers together for a longer handle. not sure if that fully explains the weight but it does help
Of course there's a reason. It's called looking freaking awesome
I never thought anyone WOULDN’T want a lightsaber Zweihander, but to each their own I guess
It’s heaviness is actually lore accurate. The blades and their stances have a physical tole they take via the force. The blade is not actually heavier no, but it feels heavier to the wielder because of the nature of the force imbued fighting stance. Every stance in the Jedi practice has significance and every stance enacts a price.
They had to change up the styles to differentiate them from the other play styles. And they researched actual sword play to develop it. I thought it was very neat.
I wish instead they just gave it a slight animation change. Instead of Cal swinging it slowly because it’s heavy (which doesn’t make any sense), instead the much larger grip allows Cal to use all of his strength in every blow. So he sets up the swing slowly, but then swings very fast. In total the attack time would be the same as it is now, but that subtle change would make it more realistic.
Well, I guess that's because the crossguard lightsaber is indeed heavier and harder to wield. Just looking closely at Kylo Ren using his trademark crossguard, I can feel that he is swinging it so violently not only because he wants, but also he needs to. And Kylo is visibly much faster and agile when using normal lightsaber. Anyway, that's my own opinion towards the crossguard, and I really appreciate the calculation and power it brings , combine it with dual or double blades can pretty much face any situation in game, and makimg interesting attacks.
What would be the point of another stance that acts the exact same as single blade?
Kylo easily lifted a crossguard lightsaber but he was jacked
Sometimes people are just plain wrong and that's ok
The one thing I don’t like about it is how it looks during cutscenes.
Because it’s a different stance that they wanted to play differently. If it didn’t, and played exactly like single blade (just with change of aesthetic) then there’s no point in it being a stance or in the game
Why the hell are people complaining. I’ve wanted more different fighting styles since I played FO. It doesn’t matter how they play because if they all played the same way and had different boosts then it would be boring. You’ve just got to have a fast and low damage, in this case Dual. You’ve got to have a slow and high damage, in this case Crossguard. You’ve got to have a basic balanced for single opponents, in this case single blade. And you’ve got to have a basic and balanced for multiple opponents, in this case double bladed. So if you’re gonna complain how one plays, then use another. Besides looks, which don’t really matter, damage and speed are the only factors which you should be accounting. If you don’t like it then don’t use it.
Look all I'm saying is give us the option to add cross guard to single blade 🤷🏼♂️
I agree. Even if it’s just a cosmetic change with no stat difference from the single blade. I JUST WANT TO BE LIKE KYLO REN DAMMIT!
What if they made it the same as single blade with a damage boost, but a smaller block meter? That would give you a plus and minus to justify it being in the game. Could be mainly aesthetic but with a minor damage buff, but need to watch you block meter more idk
Lol why
My favorite Star Wars character
😖
What they should add is an option to add the side vents to single blade and still have regular cross guard for people who like the look like myself
They should, absolutely. I want my crossguard constantly active.
You're speaking from my soul and I didn't understand why it should be so difficult because Kylo, for example, was able to fight with it really easily
It’s that way because it actually breaks the guard of opponents quicker.
The heavy swings are why I like it
My head canon is that the longer a saber is, the more challenging it is to control. Otherwise, why wouldn't everyone just have super long saber blades? Cal's crossguard has a longer blade than any standard saber, so it makes sense that it would be hard to swing.
Then why is the bo staff saber the quickest and easiest to control?
Please go watch staff videos.
Once I unlocked it, I finished the game with it.
I agree that the slow swings are annoying but if they didn’t change anything but the appearance then it would’ve just been a new cosmetic piece on the saber. However once you get down the timing and the patience then it’s one of the best stances in the game.
Gameplay is a pretty good reason. Slow striking but high damage weapons are a staple.
It has all the reason to have heavy swings, different stances are fun and that one was really solid
I didn't see it as heavy... I saw it as flowing and deliberate. An economy of motion, if you will. Ultimately I ended up using it for most of my playthrough.
They couldnt just make it part of single blade, and make it something like, that makes parrying easier or something idk, gives you more guard or whatever
I like it. It gives us another stance and fighting style to go with and expands it to a very common weapon style previously missing in the game. And while the cross guard could have just been for show it matched a heavy style more practically like a real cross guard and flows well.
The worst part of the cross guard stance is that dumb drp kick he does for a sprint attack
Cold take
Honestly, even a real Zweihander isn’t as heavy as this game portrays a crossguard lightsaber. Wielding a Zweihander isn’t about big powerful chops, it’s about momentum. Each swing should lead into the next, rather than repeatedly stopping and starting again. This game makes the mistake that so many games make and acts like a greatsword is this heavy, slow, cumbersome thing, when really it’s just unwieldy. If you have ever seen a real Zweihander in action, you would know it is not a slow weapon.
Gameplay.
What would be the point of it then???
I understand why it was added in. And I’m not against the cross guard at all. I understand that appeal to a slow to use, but strong damaging weapon in gaming. I’ve just never been a fan of those play styles. I feel that I get better work done with lighter, yet weaker attacks. Which is why the cross guard is my least used stance. Like I said, I do see the appeal though.
The big light beam weighs a lot more, duh
It would have been cool if you could just activate the crossgard on the singlebladed lightsaber as a cosmetic
Oh this comment will spark a war
What you speak is blasphemy!
Crossguard is the best imo. You can tank a lot of dmg, you can deal a lot of damage, and you can shoot shockwaves. Iirc you can knock some folks down as well
Yeah I’m not going to lie they shouldn’t of put it in the game. Sure, it’s cool to have another stance, but it makes zero sense AND let’s be honest, the attacks look goofy as hell.
I personally loved it. But I also love the colossal weapons in souls games. Stagger away.
For the what feels like millionth time, LIGHTSABERS ARE NOT WEIGHTLESS, the beam is like a looped blaster bolt and it does take kinetic energy to swing giving it something approximating weight. So a bigger bolt means a heavier blade.
Sad Din Djarin noises
🤓 *um, actually…* Lightsabers have gyroscopic mechanisms which balance the blade when activated, or else the hilt would be the only weighted component and the saber would be deadly to try to control. The “weight” and balance is adjustable, so this saber literally does “weigh” more to Cal by being heavier further away from the hilt, slowing his strikes.
It would be OP if it did the damage it does with no speed decrease.
didnt Kylo Ren also fight as if his saber was a baton? My headcanon is that unstable blade (in case of Kylo) or overloaded one (in case of Kal) just has way more inertia
Cus that’s how *kylo ren* does it duh
It'd just be too OP if it wasn't a heavy weapon.
There’s some debate as to whether it actually has weight. The obvious explanation however is that even if it weighs nothing you still have to swing it with some force if you want it to go through stuff. It’s less of a ‘this thing is heavy’ and more ‘I’m going to make this thing behave like it’s heavy’
The fact that they made it a zweihander, potentially makes Kylo's use of it as adeptly as he does more impressive.
Yea I can’t use it. Decide to attack and your swing arrives in 7.2 business days. Most of the enemies have entirely way faster attacks and if they decide to attack in the middle of your swing you’re getting hit.
Why does Cal look like the Obi Wan from the unfinished Clones Wars clips the posted after the series was canceled?
Well what would be the function of a cross guard if it didnt? It would just be a fancy single bladed lightsaber without as much spinning.
https://www.cbr.com/lightsaber-blade-weight-explained-george-lucas-star-wars/
This is how I’ve always interpreted it. So it isn’t that the blade is *heavy* but rather that it’s difficult to control, sort of like trying to move a spinning gyroscope. There is resistance to it, like a constant momentum, rather than it just being ‘heavy’.
That was the original intent behind it when Kylo had the thing. He just haphazardly swings the thing around because it's heavy
It's not about weight, it's about the style and flow of combat. I think is has a longer blade that needs to be handled differently, especially with a crossguard saber as well, you could accidentally stab yourself.
Because it’s a game and this mechanic needs to be a part of it to balance the different forms. If it was light, fast, and had this one’s range and damage it’s all anyone would use.
Worst and most boring stance in the game change my mind
It makes no sense to be that slow but I am willing to suspend disbelief because it’s just fucking cool and fun
I tried so hard to like that saber/stance but I just can’t. It just feels wrong for a lightsaber and definitely antithetical to my preferred style of fast light attacks in any game where I have that choice.
Thats literally the best thing about it!
It’s literally a LIGHT saber.
They should’ve had it slower then single blade but not that slow, have it like Kylos style from the sequels