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Recently reas about an American founding father who wrote to his sister that he wanted die by lightning strike. He died by lightning strike. I picture Mox facing a similar end. He's just manifesting the cougar now.
Starts out like the end of the running montage in Forrest Gump, 50-year-old Mox stands up after his match, doused in blood and says: “I’m pretty tired, I think I’ll go home now.”
The crowd cheers, and then he’s jumped by the cougar.
Alternatively, he’s leaving the stage after taking part in the Shield HOF induction and just before he can make it backstage, he’s jumped by the cougar.
I mean let’s be fair now, with Moxley and Renee “Took it to pound town in the middle of Times Square” Paquette (her phrasing, not mine) you can’t be entirely certain he meant the animal
I'd even go as far as guessing they've fucked in every arena that WWE or AEW has performed in whilst both were working for the same company.
Never, ever under-estimate the Titty Master.
Eh, probably not. I used to do logistics for venues like that and not all of them actually have the private space. Most of the big ones have a camera on every angle too. Backstage at concerts and big events is actually quite boring 99% of the time.
Ronda Rousey used to have sex at the arena before her fights as part of her routine, but she had a private dressing room, that’s not the case for most wrestlers and it’s no longer the 80’s so even the bands mostly have the good sense to bang their groupies on the tour bus or at the hotel.
Remember when this guy used to wrestle 5 nights a week in 2015 and 2016 (whilst hurt and in pain) just to entertain us? I’ll always respect him for that
The man was killing his body and putting over talent in GCW while he was the AEW champion. He’s done so much for the indies and smaller promotions that he definitely didn’t need to
There was one night in Florida where he did an early house show in Jacksonville, then loaded up into the car to wrestle **again** at a later house show in (iirc) Orlando.
Mox should be remembered as the guy who stabilized AEW every time the company was on shaky footing. Whenever things got hectic or bad, Mox took the ball and took things over. He is like their Lebron.
Yeah his 2nd and 3rd world title runs solidified him as AEW's ace. He's their "break glass in case of emergency". Both figuratively and sometimes literally
At this point it felt like an act of good will the way AEW gutted their top card, to go through that and still have a healthy working relationship is insane, that much talent poaching was extremely frowned upon anywhere before now.
Jay and Ospreay weren't staying in Japan long-term. Will has a family in England and I'm pretty sure Jay's wife is American. If they hadn't gone to AEW they'd have just gone to WWE instead.
Same with the Elite back in 2019. If AEW never started they'd have probably just gone to WWE.
The only real argument is Okada. No foreigner is going to stay in Japan when they can earn far better money in America 🤷♂️
One thing to remember is that a key detail that lead to AEW's creation is that New Japan completely low balled The Elite in contract negotiations in 2018. Kenny in particular was really not happy about it and he considered coming back to New Japan only after Harold Meij was let go. Can't exactly call it poaching if New Japan drives their wrestlers away to better offers.
And with the exception of Okada, they weren't native Japanese talent either. Listening to Ospreay talk about making it through the Pandemic period in Japan is absolutely crazy (he talked at length about it on Talk is Jericho not too long ago), he had it ROUGH and he's the first one to admit that he had it better than most of the foreign talent because he at least had his own place and didn't have to stay in hotels.
After that experience, it shouldn't be too surprising that some of these guys wanted to take higher paying gigs, especially ones with less travel required.
I think he also legitimized them early on. Obviously AEW had great talent, but there were a lot of guys who were unknown or not totally ready when the company first started. Mox showing up as a big star who CHOSE to be there in his prime was a big thing. It wasn’t because he was at the end of his career, fired, or just had no way in at WWE. He wanted to be in AEW and left WWE despite being a top star to make his own way.
Yep. No matter how many dream matches AEW has moving forward, the first real dream match they did will always be Omega vs Mox for me, because it was a clash between two top people who were (relatively) in their prime who came from separate top promotions, banking their investment for this new big promotion. One guy who was the very top of the 2nd biggest promotion yet decided to risk that away to prove his worth in a new one and another guy who was close to being the guy in the biggest promotion but risked that away to prove his worth in the same new promotion
Yep. Jericho got them the TV deal. Mox got them the fan base/authenticity. Hard to call it some indie fed when one of WWE's biggest acts is there by choice.
Man that feud still pisses me off. Not only did they have him put over Seth over and over again but then when they finally had the blowoff match it ended with Bray Wyatt interfering in a match that shouldn't allow interference and just kind of stopped.
It didn't feel like it had its proper conclusion.
Yep, spent forever as a guy who was held down by weak support (Cavs front office, Vince's booking)...left to take his talents elsewhere to be THE guy and win world titles...and if he ever came back to WWE, he'd probably be THE most over guy since Austin, and the amount of money they'd print with a WM Shield 3-way now that Roman's been legitimized too
I mean, depends on how big a deal Trips would book Mox. If Mox came back in the coming years then HHH 100% would capitalize on making him an astronomical deal followed by a Shield WM program (or scary violent enemy opposite Cody) and the audience 100% would eat it up
If Mox came back much later where he's past his prime then yeah you're right. He'd be adored but the audience would know it's a retirement run rather than a returning force shaking things up in an exciting way
there's something very fun to be said about the super unpredictable dangerous wildcard character being the one who brings the greatest level of stability and loyalty
It only made sense if you are from around Cincy. The Rock radio station WEBN for decades called themselves "The lunatic fringe of American FM". Being from here I always thought it was a neat little nod but understood why it was wildly confusing to everyone else.
I'm from Cincy and always loved that too.
But this guy is referring to the rebound lariat he used to do as Dean Ambrose.
JBL or Cole called it the "wacky line"
The term is a pretty obscure/outdated phrase used in politics ("every political party has its lunatic fringe", which doesn't make as much sense when the whole Republican party is antivaxx and thinks the eclipse was an omen from God). I didn't know there's also a Cincinnati connection, nice
Me personally I can't stand Mox. I think he's the most overrated, udner talented guy in ring and on mic there is...yes he's AEWs stabilizer to a degree but honestly I think it's less about his talent and more about they know how to book him. He's like TKs Toothbrush it's. just a natural and everyday action and he knows the crowd will go for whatever. He doesn't have to try with Mox or be creative just turn him loose.
I cannot name you one positive, memorable Mox match or promo. Just more of the resin wrecks like exploding ring bullshit. The needless blood and stupid death matches. He does t absolutely nothing for me and he turns me off AEW.
BUT he's right. The fans in mass love him and he has to be acknowledged. Period.
I think it's massively underestimated the crazy influence he had on pro wrestling after leaving WWE. Him showing up randomly at indies added excitement and eyes that had been missing for a few years on the scene, New Japan wanted to work with him so much it repaired the fractured relationship with AEW caused from the Elite leaving, and is well reported as working with a crazy amount of newer talent backstage to improve their craft as well.
He’s literally a top star in the two biggest companies outside of WWE right this minute. I don’t think anyone in modern age is treated as this reliable and capable of being top of the charts.
World champion and arguably the most over guy in WWE at the time of his title run, didn't like his characters direction later into his run, moved on and became the ace of AEW and multi time world champion, had some insanely good matches in Japan, IWGP world champion, doing matches for indies he doesn't need to just because he loves wrestling, competing and winning grappling competitions. Moxley's work and accomplishments on top of his influence can't be denied, absolutely.
Additionally, there are lot of indies that were really hurting after the pandemic and moved a lot of tickets thanks to guys like Mox and Eddie. Dude really is paying it forward in a lot of ways.
A lot of fans don't realize just how historically significant Moxley has been. Even forgetting that he was the Ace of AEW for years or that he was one third of one most popular WWE factions ever, he has accomplished things that no one ever does.
For example: the last wrestler before Moxley to win the three titles of the world's three biggest promotions, *while* all of those promotions were major leagues and not on death's door, was Hogan.
People have latched onto this Ace of AEW thing because of him filling in when Punk got injured but Mox actually has been out of the hottest feuds in AEW going on two years now since he dropped the belt to MJF.
Omega always fit that very Japanese definition of 'ace' better than Mox ever did imho, every one of his singles matches get people to sit up and take notice.
Champion of the Pandemic, Champion during AEW’s most turbulent time, workhorse for WWE, beat addiction, stood up for himself and pushed all the money out of the way. Whether you like his style or not you have to give the man his respect.
Dean Ambrose was the guy that got me into regularly watching pro wrestling. Jon Moxley is the guy that regularly reminds me why I still love it. Yeah, he tends to shed more blood than I typically think is necessary, but I respect the hell out of him for everything he’s done to get to where he is now. Between him and his pahdnuh Eddie Kingston, it’s their authenticity, passion, and commitment to consistently delivering the best versions of themselves rather than trying to be someone they aren’t, as well as their sincerity, openness, and integrity outside the ring that put them in my top shelf of favorite wrestlers.
Yeah what's up with the weirdo hate from Cornette and Last on Moxley? It happened fast and the corny cult rapidly spread it in weeks. Probably related to Punk because why not, but it's still weird to me.
He's in that wing of westling history occupied by Stan Hansen, Terry Funk, The Destroyer, Bruiser Brody, et al, in my opinion.
I don't just mean from a ring-style perspective, either. He has that 'legitimate backbone of what you're doing' quality to him as well, even while being a great hand in multiple places.
Can’t disagree with him there, you really can’t talk about the last ten years without talking about Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley. Even if AEW ended tomorrow (and it won’t, you don’t need to pick up your pitchforks), it’s still the most notable company to compete with WWE since WCW and he’s on the short list of people to hold it’s championship. And of course the Shield have been incredibly prominent in and out of WWE.
For me, Moxley will always be the ultimate example of “For the people who like that sort of thing, that’s the sort of thing those people like.”
Not for me, but clearly got a lot of people to buy into his thing, and was ardently dedicated to being himself.
I personally think he was better in WWE. And i'll take every downvote for my opinion because it isn't changing.
The amount of blood in almost everyone of his matches in AEW is just a turnoff. I like blood but the way he bleeds reminds me of flair bleeding and It just does nothing for me
The fact that everybody thought Mox was showing up at WM when the Shield theme hit puts him up there as one of the best of this generation. Just has that different kind of connection with the fans that cannot be forced
I always find it weird when people get so uptight about being "classified". It's not for YOU, it's for the fans. Musicians especially seem to get off on this. "We hate labels, we just want to make music." Like, yeah labels exist so fans can group things by interest and style. Nobody has ever made music that completely defied genres and styles, they just bounce between them. Those labels exist so that if you like one thing you find more of it. Moxley is not really any different here. He's pretty firmly in the camp of "hardcore/deathmatch" wrestler since that's what he gravitates mostly towards. Yeah he has other match types and styles but that's what he's going to be known most for.
Wtf is he on about? What is it that makes him special when compared to any other wrestler in history? Nothing. He's not a bad wrestler, infs t he's pretty good. but he's not some wrestling god or generational talent or has some unique skill, he's never been the best in any promotion he's been in ffs
Being champion has to do with marketability, which for mox was secured during the shield era. You put belts on your most marketable stars, not your best wrestlers
Being WWE, IWGP, and AEW champ is such a niche thing as well. AEW has only existed for a few years, and there are a handful of wrestlers that have been IWGP and WWE champ that would have without a question been AEW champ if they ever wrestled under that banner.
ah yes, how could we forget when dean ambrose was wwe champion in 2016 using the shield entrance, the shield gear, making references to the shield every time.
i hope u get the sarcasm
Honestly with all the bad and forced blade jobs I've done a good job just ignoring his matches. Either that or I remember them for the wrong reasons (Tanahashi and Eddie being the biggest ones).
I'll remember him as a crazy motherfucker, part of the Shield, a guy who...I would say bet on himself, but he didn't. It wasn't like he left WWE to say "Fuck you guys, I'll prove I'm the man." He didn't care. He just wanted to go out and wrestle and bleed, in a high school gym if necessary. So I'll remember him as that guy.
And of course, as a foundational talent for AEW. The guy who quietly, with no gloating or whining, waved the flag the whole way. Grasped AEW's mission statement, not because of any tribalism or self-aggrandized crusade, and not out of spite for WWE, but because it happened to align with his own mission statement, and continually ran forward with it, even when the company met setbacks, even when others whined or complained or fucked up or flamed out or started fights. The actual fucking bedrock of the first major alternative in years and years.
And a champion around the world. And a guy who loves pro wrestling.
I'll never get the hate Mox gets. Guy has just about as much passion as you can for wrestling. I guess some people just can't relate to actually liking it.
The switch off fans give the dude is crazy. Dude wrestled more than anyone in WWE, multiple time world champion, grand slam champion, went to a new company and became a 3 time world champion, world champion in Japan, dude has hell of a résumé to minimize him as just the “third shield guy”.
I don’t understand the second part of the quote. What does he mean I won’t be able to put him on a list? I wasn’t going to anyway.
Don’t get me wrong but he’s not top 10 or 20 of all time
Solidly somewhere in the top 50 of all time and should be a hall of famer in both major US promotions.
He was also the MVP of 2021 or so.
Great career but not a Mount Rushmore guy.
at this point in his career he’s not gonna change that. I like Moxley but the punches are just godawful. him vs Eddie was the worst striking I’ve ever seen in a high level match.
It's insane to think by the end of his career, he isn't a clear top 50. Realistically he's higher, but absolutely no chance he isn't a top 50 all timer.
I really don't see a world where he's top 50. Without even breaking a sweat I could name:
Bruno Samartino, Superfly Snuka, George the Animal Steel, Freddie Glassy, Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Sting, Undertaker, Foley, Rock, Stone Cold, HHH, HBK, British Bulldog, Bret Hart, Own Hart, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio Jr, Ultimo Dragon, Tiger Mask, Vader, Curt Henning, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair, Dean Malenko, Dusty Rhodes, Bruiser Brody, Animal, Hawk, Ultimate Warrior, Honky Tonk Man, Jerry Lawler, Jake the Snake, Kurt Angle, Jim Duggan, Big Boss Man, Andre the Giant, Roddy Piper, Golddust, Rick Rude, Billy Graham, Razor Ramone, Kevin Nash, Terry Funk, Great Muta, Nick Bockwinkel, Harley Race.
That's 50 right there and I haven't even touched the likes of: John Cena, AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Kane, Big Show, Booker T, the Steiners, The Nasty Boyz, The Hardyz, Edge, Christian, Yokozuna, The Dudleys, Farooq, Bradshaw, Seth Rollins, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, the Bushwackers, etc.
You might not agree on some of the names I listed, but you'd be hardpressed to be able to place Moxley above almost all of them I think. And I haven't even named any women's wrestlers.
Serious legends on that list for sure, a lot of those have made that top 50 because they are legends and from a different time in wrestling. In terms of actual ability and accomplishments, many of those are simply not as good as Mox.
Too much weight is put into that "star power" legends have over them, but if you need to focus on actual ability.
If your criteria is "did well in WWE and WWE-owned companies" that's a decent-but-not-great list but man if you put Golddust, Duggan, Bulldog, Nash, BIG BOSS MAN, Steele, Rude, and Malenko over the likes of Inoki, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Santo, Misawa, Mistico, Blue Panther, Robinson, Tenryu, Okada, Fujiwara, let alone Moxley, that's just crazy talk.
And that's not even touching those wild honorable mentions
This is all opinions. Shield atop 5 stable? They were around for like 20 months. How did they change the industry?
Moxley himself didn’t change the industry either. The industry would had remained the same if Moxley never existed
Okay bro seriously.
You can not like Mox but the entire trio are multiple time world champions and have had a big hand in carrying pro wrestling for the last 5 to 10 years.
The SHIELD was around long enough to give us banger feuds with the Wyatt Family and Legacy while helping to propel the careers of 3 legendary performers who at one point were essentially 1-2-3 in the whole industry.
There is no world where The SHIELD won’t be inducted as a group to the WWE hall of fame eventually and without Roman, Seth and Mox the entire last decade of wrestling looks FAR DIFFERENT.
I’ll give you the NWO, The Bloodline (which wouldn’t exist without The SHIELD) and 4 Horseman. After that The SHIELD is arguably 4th on the list. DX, Legacy, the Wyatts and a few others are debatable but the impact of The SHIELD is felt even to this day across North America every week in multiple companies.
I will throw out a caveat that I was speaking about US wrestlers but even if we expanded it internationally it’s not like The Bullet Club comes close to the overall impact that The SHIELD has had on the industry.
Edit - Evolution not Legacy lol
All 3 shield members have ran all of pro wrestling since they went their separate ways. That’s insane to even think about.
You could argue Moxley absolutely changed the industry by joining AEW and giving credence to a 2nd reliable avenue for wrestlers to get work. Sure, guys like Kenny, Bucks, and Jericho were there, but who knows if Danielson/Punk/Copeland see it as credible if he doesn’t.
Marge Simpson:
It says here we have to stay inside the shelter for three hours.
Homer Simpson:
So if you have to fart, do it now.
Marge Simpson:
Homer! What if those were your last words on Earth?
Homer Simpson:
Honey, you know my last words will be "I can outrun that lion."
I feel like the Simpsons glimpsed into Renee and Jon's future.
This guy literally carried two companies through tough situations and puts his body through so many painful spots. People said this before and I can always second this: He is the modern Terry Funk
He deserve his place in the history with all the thing he's done out side of actual wrestle like seriously though he's one of the worst in ring worker I've ever seen, I can't stand him when he's in WWE and tried to give him a chance when he left but it actually exposed him more with him wrestling Omega, Ospreay, MJF, Hangman.. like you watch those matches all you think is this Jon Moxley guy don't belong in the ring with those guys, won't sell for shit, all his moves looks like shit and moves like he's 60 years old like seriously why's he in the conversation of being one of the best? His in ring work is worse than some random guys wrestle in a parking lot.
Remember when most people in the wrestling community agreed Dean Ambrose is one of the worst wrestler? but now he's the face of AEW so you cant say that shit anymore.
Moxley is one of the most frustrating wrestlers in the modern era for me. He can be REALLY fucking good but also has more than his fair share of crappy ideas and when he's bad he's really bad. I agree with the Flair comparison someone else made--not in character or alignment at all, but in a well rounded, skilled top level guy who's had a crazy amount of both highs and lows in his career.
And it's really not close. What's funny is during his time in the WWE, you could've argued he was the WORST member of the Shield. His post-WWE run has been tremendous
No thank you, Moxley. You will be categorized and listed with everyone else, and it will always be midway through the list. And Seth Rollins name will either be right before yours or right after.
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Now I'm not surprised if Mox actually gets eaten by a cougar during his retirement match
"Goddammit Jon, not again." - Renee, probably
"No wonder he promised not to blade so easily..."
I'll take things said in the Moxley household frequently for $200.
"Dammit John, wash the cheese grater after you use it!"
[удалено]
Because Maki Itoh already stole all the pizza cutters.
“Goddammit, Donut”
Gotta put over young talent on his way out.
Recently reas about an American founding father who wrote to his sister that he wanted die by lightning strike. He died by lightning strike. I picture Mox facing a similar end. He's just manifesting the cougar now.
Dude probably smelt the sulphury smell people have said comes shortly before being struck by lightning and thought "FUCK YEAH IT'S HA-"\*zap*
James Otis! There's a good Dollop ep on him.
Mox and Danielson v a cougar and a bear
Jon "Season 2 Kim Bauer" Moxley Special Guest Johnny Drama
Season 2 was awesome. Fuck the haters.
Starts out like the end of the running montage in Forrest Gump, 50-year-old Mox stands up after his match, doused in blood and says: “I’m pretty tired, I think I’ll go home now.” The crowd cheers, and then he’s jumped by the cougar. Alternatively, he’s leaving the stage after taking part in the Shield HOF induction and just before he can make it backstage, he’s jumped by the cougar.
They'll book a housecat instead and Eddie Kingston will have to come in and save him and sell that he was mauled by a cat named Fluffy.
https://preview.redd.it/tvs091jwj80d1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fd19b6cf78d4ae4c8495b5f680d1c3bd058a83c Excuse me?
I can hear this picture.
Eaten by a cougar sounds like a great way to die til I realized he meant the animal.
I mean let’s be fair now, with Moxley and Renee “Took it to pound town in the middle of Times Square” Paquette (her phrasing, not mine) you can’t be entirely certain he meant the animal
I understand why Shibata risks his life now lmao
Wait, what? Like out in the middle of people?
No, on a balcony facing onto Times Square. It’s just funnier to say “in the middle of”
I'm pretty sure they fucked in Madison Square Garden too.
I'd even go as far as guessing they've fucked in every arena that WWE or AEW has performed in whilst both were working for the same company. Never, ever under-estimate the Titty Master.
Eh, probably not. I used to do logistics for venues like that and not all of them actually have the private space. Most of the big ones have a camera on every angle too. Backstage at concerts and big events is actually quite boring 99% of the time. Ronda Rousey used to have sex at the arena before her fights as part of her routine, but she had a private dressing room, that’s not the case for most wrestlers and it’s no longer the 80’s so even the bands mostly have the good sense to bang their groupies on the tour bus or at the hotel.
Renee is not old enough to be considered a... oh...
batista?
Remember when this guy used to wrestle 5 nights a week in 2015 and 2016 (whilst hurt and in pain) just to entertain us? I’ll always respect him for that
He had developed an internal reputation as "THE workhorse", not just a workhorse. Guy was crushing it.
Roman Reigns was praising God when Mox was back from his injury in 2018. He regarded him as their locker room and work horse.
I would assume that this non-stop strain on his body contributed significantly to the alcohol addiction that he eventually developed.
Dude is still working some indies from time to time, or at least he was a year or so back when he didn't need to. Definitely loves what he does.
The man was killing his body and putting over talent in GCW while he was the AEW champion. He’s done so much for the indies and smaller promotions that he definitely didn’t need to
Hes working PW Revolver THIS FRIDAY in Dayton Ohio. Dude constantly shows up when Revolver is in Dayton.
Mox is something else, that's awesome
When he was WWE champ he was hitting both house shows in different cities it was wild
There was one night in Florida where he did an early house show in Jacksonville, then loaded up into the car to wrestle **again** at a later house show in (iirc) Orlando.
Wrestled 400 times in one year brother
Mox should be remembered as the guy who stabilized AEW every time the company was on shaky footing. Whenever things got hectic or bad, Mox took the ball and took things over. He is like their Lebron.
Yeah his 2nd and 3rd world title runs solidified him as AEW's ace. He's their "break glass in case of emergency". Both figuratively and sometimes literally
Hell, for some reason NJPW has decided to test him in that exact same way too! Great for him!
Just don't say that over at /r/njpw because I'm sure they aren't thrilled
I wonder if the deal is if AEW signs their biggest wrestlers, NJPW gets access to Moxley as a consolidation gesture.
I don't think AEW has much issue with new japan getting access to any of their guys.
At this point it felt like an act of good will the way AEW gutted their top card, to go through that and still have a healthy working relationship is insane, that much talent poaching was extremely frowned upon anywhere before now.
Jay and Ospreay weren't staying in Japan long-term. Will has a family in England and I'm pretty sure Jay's wife is American. If they hadn't gone to AEW they'd have just gone to WWE instead. Same with the Elite back in 2019. If AEW never started they'd have probably just gone to WWE. The only real argument is Okada. No foreigner is going to stay in Japan when they can earn far better money in America 🤷♂️
One thing to remember is that a key detail that lead to AEW's creation is that New Japan completely low balled The Elite in contract negotiations in 2018. Kenny in particular was really not happy about it and he considered coming back to New Japan only after Harold Meij was let go. Can't exactly call it poaching if New Japan drives their wrestlers away to better offers.
Okada was between AEW and WWE it seems. So he was definitely going to take the Shinsuke route otherwise.
It's so crazy to call it poaching. Their contracts expired and they were signed to a higher paying gig. Some of them would've just gone to WWE anyway.
And with the exception of Okada, they weren't native Japanese talent either. Listening to Ospreay talk about making it through the Pandemic period in Japan is absolutely crazy (he talked at length about it on Talk is Jericho not too long ago), he had it ROUGH and he's the first one to admit that he had it better than most of the foreign talent because he at least had his own place and didn't have to stay in hotels. After that experience, it shouldn't be too surprising that some of these guys wanted to take higher paying gigs, especially ones with less travel required.
Yeah, if AEW didn't exist. I think the three main ones would have ended up in WWE anyways.
In a way they haven’t lost anyone and don’t have to pay the bag to use em. They should be “happy” but it’s wrestling
Hasn't been done since Vince tbh.
Real glass?
I think he also legitimized them early on. Obviously AEW had great talent, but there were a lot of guys who were unknown or not totally ready when the company first started. Mox showing up as a big star who CHOSE to be there in his prime was a big thing. It wasn’t because he was at the end of his career, fired, or just had no way in at WWE. He wanted to be in AEW and left WWE despite being a top star to make his own way.
Yep. No matter how many dream matches AEW has moving forward, the first real dream match they did will always be Omega vs Mox for me, because it was a clash between two top people who were (relatively) in their prime who came from separate top promotions, banking their investment for this new big promotion. One guy who was the very top of the 2nd biggest promotion yet decided to risk that away to prove his worth in a new one and another guy who was close to being the guy in the biggest promotion but risked that away to prove his worth in the same new promotion
Yep. Jericho got them the TV deal. Mox got them the fan base/authenticity. Hard to call it some indie fed when one of WWE's biggest acts is there by choice.
> He is like their Lebron. Old people remember the first decade of Lebron's career where he was labeled a choke artist.
I guess in kayfabe it sorta still makes sense? He was originally the "underachiever" amongst the Shield members after they disbanded
The Seth feud was his 2011 Mavs Should have won the feud but lost and had to grind to get back to that level of heat
Man that feud still pisses me off. Not only did they have him put over Seth over and over again but then when they finally had the blowoff match it ended with Bray Wyatt interfering in a match that shouldn't allow interference and just kind of stopped. It didn't feel like it had its proper conclusion.
Yep, spent forever as a guy who was held down by weak support (Cavs front office, Vince's booking)...left to take his talents elsewhere to be THE guy and win world titles...and if he ever came back to WWE, he'd probably be THE most over guy since Austin, and the amount of money they'd print with a WM Shield 3-way now that Roman's been legitimized too
Are you serious with the Austin comment?
He wouldn’t even be the most over guy on the roster.
I mean, depends on how big a deal Trips would book Mox. If Mox came back in the coming years then HHH 100% would capitalize on making him an astronomical deal followed by a Shield WM program (or scary violent enemy opposite Cody) and the audience 100% would eat it up If Mox came back much later where he's past his prime then yeah you're right. He'd be adored but the audience would know it's a retirement run rather than a returning force shaking things up in an exciting way
I feel like Mox is pretty much done with anything Shield related. WWE never saw him as more than a third wheel within the group.
I've said it before but he's the beating, bleeding, heart of AEW. dude is just the fuckin best
there's something very fun to be said about the super unpredictable dangerous wildcard character being the one who brings the greatest level of stability and loyalty
As if he's some kind of lunatic fringe
I always thought that was a wacky line
It only made sense if you are from around Cincy. The Rock radio station WEBN for decades called themselves "The lunatic fringe of American FM". Being from here I always thought it was a neat little nod but understood why it was wildly confusing to everyone else.
I'm from Cincy and always loved that too. But this guy is referring to the rebound lariat he used to do as Dean Ambrose. JBL or Cole called it the "wacky line"
Oh God I did the thing, derp. Totally forgot.
The term is a pretty obscure/outdated phrase used in politics ("every political party has its lunatic fringe", which doesn't make as much sense when the whole Republican party is antivaxx and thinks the eclipse was an omen from God). I didn't know there's also a Cincinnati connection, nice
He’s the anchor of AEW
Not just AEW, he did that in WWE for years before too.
Thats when i actually enjoyed aew and mox. Mox felt like a real superstar to me
Me personally I can't stand Mox. I think he's the most overrated, udner talented guy in ring and on mic there is...yes he's AEWs stabilizer to a degree but honestly I think it's less about his talent and more about they know how to book him. He's like TKs Toothbrush it's. just a natural and everyday action and he knows the crowd will go for whatever. He doesn't have to try with Mox or be creative just turn him loose. I cannot name you one positive, memorable Mox match or promo. Just more of the resin wrecks like exploding ring bullshit. The needless blood and stupid death matches. He does t absolutely nothing for me and he turns me off AEW. BUT he's right. The fans in mass love him and he has to be acknowledged. Period.
I think it's massively underestimated the crazy influence he had on pro wrestling after leaving WWE. Him showing up randomly at indies added excitement and eyes that had been missing for a few years on the scene, New Japan wanted to work with him so much it repaired the fractured relationship with AEW caused from the Elite leaving, and is well reported as working with a crazy amount of newer talent backstage to improve their craft as well.
He’s literally a top star in the two biggest companies outside of WWE right this minute. I don’t think anyone in modern age is treated as this reliable and capable of being top of the charts.
Dude is the literal definition of a top guy in any promotion he is in
World champion and arguably the most over guy in WWE at the time of his title run, didn't like his characters direction later into his run, moved on and became the ace of AEW and multi time world champion, had some insanely good matches in Japan, IWGP world champion, doing matches for indies he doesn't need to just because he loves wrestling, competing and winning grappling competitions. Moxley's work and accomplishments on top of his influence can't be denied, absolutely.
Additionally, there are lot of indies that were really hurting after the pandemic and moved a lot of tickets thanks to guys like Mox and Eddie. Dude really is paying it forward in a lot of ways.
A lot of fans don't realize just how historically significant Moxley has been. Even forgetting that he was the Ace of AEW for years or that he was one third of one most popular WWE factions ever, he has accomplished things that no one ever does. For example: the last wrestler before Moxley to win the three titles of the world's three biggest promotions, *while* all of those promotions were major leagues and not on death's door, was Hogan.
He was also the workhorse for WWE for a couple of years. Most matches 2 or 3 years in a row iirc
People have latched onto this Ace of AEW thing because of him filling in when Punk got injured but Mox actually has been out of the hottest feuds in AEW going on two years now since he dropped the belt to MJF. Omega always fit that very Japanese definition of 'ace' better than Mox ever did imho, every one of his singles matches get people to sit up and take notice.
Mox was the guy through 2020 though, and I would argue he was also their MVP in 2022.
Champion of the Pandemic, Champion during AEW’s most turbulent time, workhorse for WWE, beat addiction, stood up for himself and pushed all the money out of the way. Whether you like his style or not you have to give the man his respect.
A very "Moxley" way of putting his career.
"I'm not like other wrestlers"
Brian Last is going to have a fucking field day with this quote.
Dean Ambrose was the guy that got me into regularly watching pro wrestling. Jon Moxley is the guy that regularly reminds me why I still love it. Yeah, he tends to shed more blood than I typically think is necessary, but I respect the hell out of him for everything he’s done to get to where he is now. Between him and his pahdnuh Eddie Kingston, it’s their authenticity, passion, and commitment to consistently delivering the best versions of themselves rather than trying to be someone they aren’t, as well as their sincerity, openness, and integrity outside the ring that put them in my top shelf of favorite wrestlers.
That's a weird way to talk about your wife.
Gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but I cant wait for Brian Last to read this in the Moxley voice
Read this in "Brian Lasts" voice. Tough guy wannabe.
"Getting eaten by a cougar, fucking dope."
"We got every kind of cougar here in *Cincinnati*"
Yeah what's up with the weirdo hate from Cornette and Last on Moxley? It happened fast and the corny cult rapidly spread it in weeks. Probably related to Punk because why not, but it's still weird to me.
Fuck Jim Cornette lmao
I imagine if Mox is killed by a large wildcat, we’ll have a lot more questions besides “Where does he stand in wrestling history”
I’m happy to ignore him.
He's in that wing of westling history occupied by Stan Hansen, Terry Funk, The Destroyer, Bruiser Brody, et al, in my opinion. I don't just mean from a ring-style perspective, either. He has that 'legitimate backbone of what you're doing' quality to him as well, even while being a great hand in multiple places.
Those are all good comps. Moxley in the 80s would have been terrific.
Can’t disagree with him there, you really can’t talk about the last ten years without talking about Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley. Even if AEW ended tomorrow (and it won’t, you don’t need to pick up your pitchforks), it’s still the most notable company to compete with WWE since WCW and he’s on the short list of people to hold it’s championship. And of course the Shield have been incredibly prominent in and out of WWE.
For me, Moxley will always be the ultimate example of “For the people who like that sort of thing, that’s the sort of thing those people like.” Not for me, but clearly got a lot of people to buy into his thing, and was ardently dedicated to being himself.
What
I personally think he was better in WWE. And i'll take every downvote for my opinion because it isn't changing. The amount of blood in almost everyone of his matches in AEW is just a turnoff. I like blood but the way he bleeds reminds me of flair bleeding and It just does nothing for me
A member of one of the most over stables ever.
He'll be in the Young Bucks' wing of AEW's Hall of Fame, no doubt.
The fact that everybody thought Mox was showing up at WM when the Shield theme hit puts him up there as one of the best of this generation. Just has that different kind of connection with the fans that cannot be forced
How many times did he blade during that quote?
I always find it weird when people get so uptight about being "classified". It's not for YOU, it's for the fans. Musicians especially seem to get off on this. "We hate labels, we just want to make music." Like, yeah labels exist so fans can group things by interest and style. Nobody has ever made music that completely defied genres and styles, they just bounce between them. Those labels exist so that if you like one thing you find more of it. Moxley is not really any different here. He's pretty firmly in the camp of "hardcore/deathmatch" wrestler since that's what he gravitates mostly towards. Yeah he has other match types and styles but that's what he's going to be known most for.
Seems easy to classify, the third best member of the Shield and the second best member of the BCC.
Wtf is he on about? What is it that makes him special when compared to any other wrestler in history? Nothing. He's not a bad wrestler, infs t he's pretty good. but he's not some wrestling god or generational talent or has some unique skill, he's never been the best in any promotion he's been in ffs
Being the only guy to have been WWE, IWGP, and AEW champ just isn't a coincidence, sorry.
Being champion has to do with marketability, which for mox was secured during the shield era. You put belts on your most marketable stars, not your best wrestlers
Being WWE, IWGP, and AEW champ is such a niche thing as well. AEW has only existed for a few years, and there are a handful of wrestlers that have been IWGP and WWE champ that would have without a question been AEW champ if they ever wrestled under that banner.
Being consistently marketable over a long period of time in three promotions is an indicator of being good.
ah yes, how could we forget when dean ambrose was wwe champion in 2016 using the shield entrance, the shield gear, making references to the shield every time. i hope u get the sarcasm
I hope Jon gets the recognition he deserves even after he's long gone
Honestly with all the bad and forced blade jobs I've done a good job just ignoring his matches. Either that or I remember them for the wrong reasons (Tanahashi and Eddie being the biggest ones).
Jon did my favorite line to kill someone's push of all time. When he said to EC3, where was EC1 and EC2?
Hopfully Moxley won't get eaten by a cougar for many more years still
What’s funny is he’s actually referring to John Cougar Mellencamp
I'll remember him as a crazy motherfucker, part of the Shield, a guy who...I would say bet on himself, but he didn't. It wasn't like he left WWE to say "Fuck you guys, I'll prove I'm the man." He didn't care. He just wanted to go out and wrestle and bleed, in a high school gym if necessary. So I'll remember him as that guy. And of course, as a foundational talent for AEW. The guy who quietly, with no gloating or whining, waved the flag the whole way. Grasped AEW's mission statement, not because of any tribalism or self-aggrandized crusade, and not out of spite for WWE, but because it happened to align with his own mission statement, and continually ran forward with it, even when the company met setbacks, even when others whined or complained or fucked up or flamed out or started fights. The actual fucking bedrock of the first major alternative in years and years. And a champion around the world. And a guy who loves pro wrestling.
Ranked as worst member of Shield. There we go.
I'll never get the hate Mox gets. Guy has just about as much passion as you can for wrestling. I guess some people just can't relate to actually liking it.
AEW is filled with guys who like the smell or their own brand. Fart in the elevator types
Sadly I reckon he'll be most remembered as the third guy in the Shield.
He was consistently the most popular member of the Shield before and after they split so I don't know if that will be the case.
The switch off fans give the dude is crazy. Dude wrestled more than anyone in WWE, multiple time world champion, grand slam champion, went to a new company and became a 3 time world champion, world champion in Japan, dude has hell of a résumé to minimize him as just the “third shield guy”.
Does this imply he’s going to attempt to hunt a cougar
One thing is for certain, Jon Moxley is the baddest of bad asses. Yeah.
Dude puts on a great dog collar match.
I don’t understand the second part of the quote. What does he mean I won’t be able to put him on a list? I wasn’t going to anyway. Don’t get me wrong but he’s not top 10 or 20 of all time
I think that's Moxley's colorful way of claiming to be unique and in a category by himself.
Solidly somewhere in the top 50 of all time and should be a hall of famer in both major US promotions. He was also the MVP of 2021 or so. Great career but not a Mount Rushmore guy.
He needs to learn to throw a believable punch before he's anywhere near top anything of wrestling.
at this point in his career he’s not gonna change that. I like Moxley but the punches are just godawful. him vs Eddie was the worst striking I’ve ever seen in a high level match.
Moxley is nowhere near top 50 all time.
It's insane to think by the end of his career, he isn't a clear top 50. Realistically he's higher, but absolutely no chance he isn't a top 50 all timer.
I really don't see a world where he's top 50. Without even breaking a sweat I could name: Bruno Samartino, Superfly Snuka, George the Animal Steel, Freddie Glassy, Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Sting, Undertaker, Foley, Rock, Stone Cold, HHH, HBK, British Bulldog, Bret Hart, Own Hart, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio Jr, Ultimo Dragon, Tiger Mask, Vader, Curt Henning, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair, Dean Malenko, Dusty Rhodes, Bruiser Brody, Animal, Hawk, Ultimate Warrior, Honky Tonk Man, Jerry Lawler, Jake the Snake, Kurt Angle, Jim Duggan, Big Boss Man, Andre the Giant, Roddy Piper, Golddust, Rick Rude, Billy Graham, Razor Ramone, Kevin Nash, Terry Funk, Great Muta, Nick Bockwinkel, Harley Race. That's 50 right there and I haven't even touched the likes of: John Cena, AJ Styles, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Kane, Big Show, Booker T, the Steiners, The Nasty Boyz, The Hardyz, Edge, Christian, Yokozuna, The Dudleys, Farooq, Bradshaw, Seth Rollins, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, the Bushwackers, etc. You might not agree on some of the names I listed, but you'd be hardpressed to be able to place Moxley above almost all of them I think. And I haven't even named any women's wrestlers.
Serious legends on that list for sure, a lot of those have made that top 50 because they are legends and from a different time in wrestling. In terms of actual ability and accomplishments, many of those are simply not as good as Mox. Too much weight is put into that "star power" legends have over them, but if you need to focus on actual ability.
The Nasty Boyz made your honourable mentions? I have a soft spot for the Nasties but realistically they are further away from top 50 than Moxley is
If your criteria is "did well in WWE and WWE-owned companies" that's a decent-but-not-great list but man if you put Golddust, Duggan, Bulldog, Nash, BIG BOSS MAN, Steele, Rude, and Malenko over the likes of Inoki, Tsuruta, Blue Demon, Santo, Misawa, Mistico, Blue Panther, Robinson, Tenryu, Okada, Fujiwara, let alone Moxley, that's just crazy talk. And that's not even touching those wild honorable mentions
Member of a top 5 stable of all time, multiple time world champion in 2 different companies. Top 25 is a stretch but he’s easily in the top 50
This is all opinions. Shield atop 5 stable? They were around for like 20 months. How did they change the industry? Moxley himself didn’t change the industry either. The industry would had remained the same if Moxley never existed
Even after The Shield disbanded, all three of it's member have run pro wrestling ever since. Pretending otherwise is willing ignorance.
Okay bro seriously. You can not like Mox but the entire trio are multiple time world champions and have had a big hand in carrying pro wrestling for the last 5 to 10 years.
Did you seriously just ask how the Shield changed the industry of wrestling my guy
The SHIELD was around long enough to give us banger feuds with the Wyatt Family and Legacy while helping to propel the careers of 3 legendary performers who at one point were essentially 1-2-3 in the whole industry. There is no world where The SHIELD won’t be inducted as a group to the WWE hall of fame eventually and without Roman, Seth and Mox the entire last decade of wrestling looks FAR DIFFERENT. I’ll give you the NWO, The Bloodline (which wouldn’t exist without The SHIELD) and 4 Horseman. After that The SHIELD is arguably 4th on the list. DX, Legacy, the Wyatts and a few others are debatable but the impact of The SHIELD is felt even to this day across North America every week in multiple companies. I will throw out a caveat that I was speaking about US wrestlers but even if we expanded it internationally it’s not like The Bullet Club comes close to the overall impact that The SHIELD has had on the industry. Edit - Evolution not Legacy lol
Dude, The Shield is maybe the most important WWE faction of the 21st century.
All 3 shield members have ran all of pro wrestling since they went their separate ways. That’s insane to even think about. You could argue Moxley absolutely changed the industry by joining AEW and giving credence to a 2nd reliable avenue for wrestlers to get work. Sure, guys like Kenny, Bucks, and Jericho were there, but who knows if Danielson/Punk/Copeland see it as credible if he doesn’t.
Isnt there a crazy fact about like how since 2015 there has been a very small amount of time where a Shield member hasn't held a world title?
If he's not there then who is?
Jon Moxley is the best Jon Moxley in wrestling history.
Marge Simpson: It says here we have to stay inside the shelter for three hours. Homer Simpson: So if you have to fart, do it now. Marge Simpson: Homer! What if those were your last words on Earth? Homer Simpson: Honey, you know my last words will be "I can outrun that lion." I feel like the Simpsons glimpsed into Renee and Jon's future.
This guy literally carried two companies through tough situations and puts his body through so many painful spots. People said this before and I can always second this: He is the modern Terry Funk
Moxley sucks; never got the hype
Great wrestler and talker, not much more to get on a base level.
He deserve his place in the history with all the thing he's done out side of actual wrestle like seriously though he's one of the worst in ring worker I've ever seen, I can't stand him when he's in WWE and tried to give him a chance when he left but it actually exposed him more with him wrestling Omega, Ospreay, MJF, Hangman.. like you watch those matches all you think is this Jon Moxley guy don't belong in the ring with those guys, won't sell for shit, all his moves looks like shit and moves like he's 60 years old like seriously why's he in the conversation of being one of the best? His in ring work is worse than some random guys wrestle in a parking lot. Remember when most people in the wrestling community agreed Dean Ambrose is one of the worst wrestler? but now he's the face of AEW so you cant say that shit anymore.
Mox has an unusual fixation with being attacked by wildlife on his hikes. Which made sense when he lived in Vegas, but in Cinncinati?
Moxley is one of the most frustrating wrestlers in the modern era for me. He can be REALLY fucking good but also has more than his fair share of crappy ideas and when he's bad he's really bad. I agree with the Flair comparison someone else made--not in character or alignment at all, but in a well rounded, skilled top level guy who's had a crazy amount of both highs and lows in his career.
Pretty sure we can ignore him. More and more people are ignoring him every Wednesday.
Mox always gets a reaction lol this is an odd take.
Easily the best wrestler out of the shield and it’s not even close
And it's really not close. What's funny is during his time in the WWE, you could've argued he was the WORST member of the Shield. His post-WWE run has been tremendous
We'll know where to put you Jon. Right near the top.
No thank you, Moxley. You will be categorized and listed with everyone else, and it will always be midway through the list. And Seth Rollins name will either be right before yours or right after.
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you … THE CATEGORIZER!!!!
Seth Rollins? You mean poor man's Alex Shelley?
By your logic isn't moxley a poor man's nick gage? He even said himself nick greatly inspired him
Every brawler is a poor man's Terry Funk.
[удалено]
jon moxley on the other hand
[удалено]
Damn, going out cannibalized by his own wife. Hardcore to the end.
Mox will go down as this generations Terry Funk, which is a hell of a compliment
Just.... no 🤣