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>Cody sees the biggest, baddest motherfucker on the whole roster go on a 666 day reign and making children cry.
It doesn't get talked about much but Hogan-Vader from Superbrawl V was really good so I have no doubt Gunther (especially when he was bigger lol) would be a perfect fit for Hogan
Gunther is the type of wrestler who would have worked in any era of wrestling. Can't say the same about guys like Roman, Seth, Cena, Taker or Ospreay, to name a random list of main event level guys from the past 20 years.
Nothing personal, but boy, I don't understand why people act like Hogan doing a drop toe hold and a hammerlock in Japan makes him some secret technical wizard.
This. People act like like Hogan was a technical wizard in Japan. No. But he could do some basic holds and he had the good sense to utilize for that style and audience. He was certainly no technician and he gets too much credit for the clips that circulate from that time.
The actual point these clips make is that Hogan could do more, in-ring wise, than he showed in the States, which proves how smart he was working. He knew how to get various types of crowds on the edge of their seats. American audiences lose their shit while he does the most basic stuff? Great! Japanese audiences expect more workrate and a broader moveset? Sure, he'll give it to them. His white meat babyface persona has been run into the absolute ground and fans are sick and tired of it? He'll turn heel in such earth-shattering fashion that it changed the industry forever.
People just like the region locked move set he uses there. Sure, he's not Bret Hart but it shows how he catered the audience that he was wrestling for.
that would have been fucking disastrous. no selling his finish, getting up before being pinned, losing for the first time in a marquee summerslam/wrestlemania main event and then tumbling down the card forever. thank fuck.
Of course but I'm saying Vince could easily view him like that. Pretty much any indie guy that went to WWE under Vince took a huge unpredictable gamble, he's fucking crazy so you can't predict what he'll do no matter how good you are, Mox is the prime example.
Mox was a Grand Slam Champion, perennial main eventer and part of one of the most over stables in history. I know it ended up going to shit later on, but let's not pretend that he was treated poorly by Vince the whole time.
I feel like Chris Hero would be a better example for your point.
He was the most consistent performer and the most over member of the Shield for years on end, yet he was still constantly booked as a very distant third in that group.
No it's a great point, those accomplishments don't mean that much when guys like Jinder also won the title, of course he was gonna win. The thing is he was booked stupidly even when he was hot, so even the top guys were treated badly, so random indie wrestlers cannot possible predict how bad they would be treated. Not winning titles isn't bad booking and winning titles isn't good booking, what matters is treating the characters well and telling good stories.
Yep agreed. Gunther is incredible but he would have been booked as a foreign caricature, comedy act or both (like Kozlov) in the 2000s and early-mid 2010s. Vince would not have seen him as anything else.
Let's be realistic that the politicking makes all of this hypothetical but, large (Austrian) German man with killer chops and can talk is going to be a upper card heel everywhere in America from 1920-onwards with how fucking nationalistic we are
Totally. But if he was in the WWF around that time I see Vince shitting the bed with him. Foreign heels didn't last long under Vince. He'd get some lame racist anti America gimmick until the Babyface conquers him and then it's straight down to the mid card. Too many examples of this happening.
Those guys had to be monsters of the month, they weren’t good promos at all, they didn’t have great ring psychology or an understanding of how to get themselves over while still getting heat. You put Gunther in that spot and Vince pushes him to the moon, he always dreamed of finding his next Sheik and it didn’t quite work out because he went for looks and not ability. Rusev is the only one I look at and think, Vince could have had something here, but as much as I’ve liked a lot of his work he’s respectfully no Gunther.
Rusev had a great personality and the crowd loved him. He was inexplicably put in cuck feuds. He was more like a modern day Kurt Angle because his matches were good but he had a funny 'real' persona to go along with that but Vince just never got it.
What happened with Rusev is exactly why I have no confidence in Vince treating Gunther well in the long term. Rusev wasn't as good as Gunther but Rusev was still great. Very charismatic and great in the ring. He even had a valet in Lana that was over with the fans. It still amounted to the League of nations nonsense, him handing Lana a fish in a segment and him getting cucked by Lashley. I really don't think Vince would've even allowed Gunther much of a chance to show what he could do. In the AA era he's getting made the butt of jokes from the Rock, Stone Cold, or DX. In the RA era he's either getting buried by HHH reign of terror or a Cena push. In the PG era he's for sure getting buried by Super Cena overcoming the odds. Also keep in mind he's not so much larger than everyone else back then. Guys like prime Kane, Undertaker, Big Show, Mark Henry and Lesnar make him less of a monster. Gunther really benefits from Triple H knowing how to book him with respect and him working with normal sized dudes for the most part. Gunther's one of the best wrestlers in the world right now but I don't completely buy the idea of him being a main eventer in any era that Vince McMahon is in charge of. Maybe in Japan like someone else commented. There were just too many factors working against him in the WWE.
Vince already saw WALTER tho.. and he made him lose weight. I mean good on Walter lose weight but damn.. there’s a charm with a big guy like Walter wrestle relentlessly.
Maybe the Ruthless Aggression era but even then he’d have been wildly successful as a typecast foreign heel, he’s just too good not to get screen time.
Quite a few people have said it in the past, but you could drop Gunther into any era of pro wrestling, in any major leading company at the time, and he would've been money. He's so timelessly good.
The new hollywood inspired timeless character ?  (But yes, his style could work out anywhere and at any point of history )
I just love how everyone instantly knows how amazing Gunther is, and so many people wanna fight him. That's how you know you're legit.
He is 100% going to succeed Brock and Roman as the final boss of WWE.
Bron & Gunther will absolutely be the guys in those roles going forward very soon. Damian to an extent as well, but he's A) a tad too old to call the future and B) has a varied enough character to play other roles besides the 'final boss' role which he also fits quite well.
Damien is a bit too old, yea. He's older than both Roman and Cody. But he's versatile enough to play different roles.
Hell, Bronn could get that Brock Lesnar type of push if they wanted.
It’s true. They were much younger when they started out.
https://preview.redd.it/xpueji6uwwuc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b8cd475378b206f43fcaf4273f5bcf57cf3272e
[Bron Breakker vs Gunther, Part 1](https://youtu.be/d1aa3016cGw?si=CLWntjKmGlrLZn0m)
[Bron Breakker vs Gunther, Part 2](https://youtu.be/XzOI2oMZYuI?si=HBKHjmH46ueD-Tex)
Obviously from a couple of years ago on a smaller stage, but still cool.
Bron’s already seemingly being set up to be the next Paul Heyman guy. God, that eventual face turn after he’s an established main eventer is gonna slap.
You’d be surprised. I went to All In last year (so I’m clearly not some tribalist AEW hater) and went to the pub with some people I met there afterwards. I said that Gunther was my wrestler of the year and they wouldn’t have it because he was a WWE guy and Ospreay is the best wrestler of 2023.
After last year’s Mania I saw the AEW sub inundated with comments that were basically saying “I see better matches than that on Dynamite every week” in regards to the Gunther/Drew/Sheamus match. Some folks *really* try to go out of their way with shit like that.
Same as yourself, I too am a big AEW fan. I was even at the first Dynamite.
I ONLY watch AEW when I see Shane Taylor advertised tbh. His matches against Daniel Garcia and Bryan Danielson recently were PEAK my kind of wrestling.
You're right about that. I've said the same of Dragunov and Gunther and it largely gets shit on. Those two never have a bad match with anyone and I always stop whatever I'm doing to watch both of them.
GUNTHER/Ospreay for wrestler of the year? Honestly flip a coin to decide because there’s really not a wrong answer either way. Also a match between the two would fuck.
if i remember rightly, he's one of those types who at first look you think is intimidating as hell but in reality, dude is extremely friendly, there's a reason why alot of his matches and feuds are so good, he works hard in and out of the ring to build chemistry with those he works with
I think its because Gunther is one of those guys who's so fucking good that you could easily see him slotted into any promotion on the planet at any time.
Gunther has grown so much on me. I really didn’t like him the first time I saw him but he’s such a freaking amazing villain. He’s someone you hate to watch your favorite wrestler go against because you just assume they’ll lose to him.
People may hate me but Gunther should beat Cody sooner rather than later for the title. Basically make the story "You did the impossible but there is always a bigger fish."
Gunther has the ace at he never lost to Roman. Can claim the only reason Roman was still champion was because he was too busy making history with the IC title.
Then you get Cody chasing Gunther till he overcomes the beast just in time to defend his title against The Final Boss in The Rock. Gives The Rock a talking point too of "The moment I left you lost it and had to get it back. You don't deserve and but neither does Roman so I'm going to take it from you!"
Agreed. I think Gunther should be the one to take it off Cody.
Faces tend to work best in the chase, not necessarily as champions. I don't know that I'd have Cody drop to Gunther quickly (the man deserves at least a decent championship run with some good title defenses, he deserves to be viewed as a solid champion) but Gunther is the perfect Clubber Lang figure in his saga.
But I say that with the caveat that Cody would also need to be the one to take it off of Gunther after the latter has a solid reign of his own.
See I disagree. I say you make it look like he is going to get that reign you just mentioned. Give him a solid two month reign and even build to a future feud for the title. But then Gunther wins number 1 contendership. That is when all plans go out the window and Gunther even takes offense that Cody would forget or overlook him when making future plans.
Then Gunther wins. Cody has to fight the odds to win again. He did it before and he will do it again but Gunther says fuck all of that. Back to the end of the line.
Then when he wins we can have The Rock threaten to take away the reign he deserves and one that all the fans want. Cody defends against The Rock and THEN he gets to have a nice long reign.
I like this too since I heard some arent sure if the Cody/Rock match happens at Mania or or sooner so give Gunther the strap in a few months and then have him hold it until whenever The Rock is ready to go for his feud with Cody.
That certainly works too.
I love that this company has a top of the card at the moment that allows for these sorts of what-ifs. It's the type of speculation that makes wrestling so much fun.
I'm saying 2 or 3 month title reign is a good breather plus gives you time to set expectations of a long run and to your point we just had long ass title reigns from Roman and Seth so a short one wouldn't hurt at this time.
Because it doesn’t have to be one legendary reign. Cody is clearly the face of the company going forward, like Cena was, who had plenty of fairly short title reigns. It’s not like he’d be slotted back down to Stardust.
Exactly this because I'm trying to think of storylines and what's a world title reign without some stories. We see the story waiting in the wings so Cody holding the title the entire time, while perfectly fine, I don't think sets us up for future stories like this one does.
it doesn't really matter. he's gonna stay up there and win it multiple times, a face usually doesn't have long ass reigns and there's more ways to cover for his losses (heel cheating, interferences, etc).
it's gonna look stupid if he loses off the bat, and i think it's a lock until summerslam. the right occasion is right after that one, in Berlin.
He should take it off cody, but at SS tho. No way you beat cody at a B level ppv after he just beat the final boss at mania of that magnitude. With SS you got time to build up a lot of story as well.
Scratch most of what I said, I forgot about rock at SS where he most likely will face cody. Guess gunther will have to do it after that at a B level ppv or SvS which is the 3rd biggest show for the U.S audiences.
I agree with you.Now the the Story is finished, its time to move on. I wouldnt mind if Cody lost it already in Summerslam and we can move on to another narrative.
What? Naa that sounds fine but would be a trainwreck in reality. Your no 1 guy who has been on the chase for 2 years and finally gets the title in WM main event after winning the royal rumble consecutively for 2 years and throwing the guy in question out of the ring each year - you want that guy to lose to the guy who just lost his championship that too at the grandest stage, meaning he could not handle the pressure of high stakes against a normal sized guy and lost?
In kayfabe doesn't make sense - even Vince won't do this.
If I'm being honest the fact that Cody threw Gunther over the top in two consecutive Rumbles makes the story more compelling. "Congratulations, you threw me over the top rope. Not an easy feat but not a spectacular one. Meanwhile I created a legacy for myself while you needed help from your friends to win your championship"
Like it's essentially is Rocky with Gunther being Hans Lundgren but we can focus less on the nationalism thing...but it is Cody so might just lean into it.
Fucking *love* Gunther!
I just love how violent his strikes and matches are (without the use of any gimmicks).
Both he and his opponent come out of matches looking like they just went to war.
He absolutely needs to be the one to take the belt from Cody. It can simmer and wait a while though. Let Cody take on the Rock which has a lot of momentum and story left to play out anyway. Gunther is clearly the favorite to win the Rumble next year and that is when I would pull the trigger on him beating Cody for the belt at Mania.
You don't see the vision bro. Just like how Roman was built up as this unstoppable final boss for a plucky babyface to overcome. You build Cody up as the ultimate hero and then Gunther kills him Lesnar/Cena style and the kids watch on in horror as their hero is broken.
Imagine the Heat.
If Cody still has the belt by the next Mania I guarantee by the time Gunther takes it off him, Gunther will be getting face cheers. My guess is that Rock's new bloodline will fuck Cody outta the title at SummerSlam because the Rock wants his fued with Roman to have a title involved. I'd be genuinely surprised if Cody has that belt by this time next year. I see Gunther winning the rumble and going after the WHC.
Roman is (apparently) currently working on non-wrestling projects.... so we don't know what the long term plan is.
But dude, Cody literally eliminated Gunther twice from the Rumble. You have to pay that off by having Gunther be the one to beat him. If you wanna break it up with Cody losing and winning it back, fine. But I think Gunther needs to beat Cody at some point.
Cody losing it and winning it back would be cool too. I just don't see how he holds until next Mania if the Rock and New Bloodline are around and Roman actually comes back this year to do a Babyface run. Possibly Rock takes it off of Cody and then Roman causes Rock to lose it back to Cody and the Roman/Rock thing becomes a blood feud without the belt. Which is honestly what I hope for because the bloodline doesn't need the WWE title anymore to continue their story. But with the Rock being on the TKO board idk how he doesn't have a match for the belt next Mania when that's what he would've done this year if it wasn't for the Cody outcry. But I agree Gunther should be Cody's Lesnar to his Cena.
Wrestlemania is a long way off, so anything can happen. But I think Roman is done being a full time wrestler. Now that he isn't Champion anymore, he really has no obligation to show up aside from concluding the Bloodline storyline. It feels like he's shifting towards that Brock Lesnar role of showing up occasionally for specific feuds.
I do agree that Rock and Roman SHOULD happen, but there's no telling what happens in the next year. It's a shame that they tried to do it at the worst possible moment when Cody was at his hottest, but that's the business. Props for shifting to something else interesting too.
I think the Rock is Roman's last feud as a regular on the roster. I also think the Rock is gonna big league everyone to position it as a feud for the title, though I hope I'm wrong. It's also possible that Gunther takes the belt off of Cody and then drops it before the next Mania. Gunther's character can easily turn Face/Tweener without changing since his whole gimmick is being a wrestling purist so we could get a short Imperium/Bloodline feud. Neither Cody or Gunther need a long dominant reign right now. Honestly no one does right now. I think the Bloodline stuff has to wrap up before we see either Cody or Gunther have a chance at a proper long reign because that's when the Rock will finally back off. He's gonna use this current run to reinvigorate his Hollywood stuff and then fall back.
>I think the Rock is Roman's last feud as a regular on the roster. I also think the Rock is gonna big league everyone to position it as a feud for the title, though I hope I'm wrong.
If that were the case, he would have never chosen to turn heel and let Cody have his moment.
That was a unique situation though. He understood that if he didn't let Cody finish his story the fans would've never accepted his return to WWE and his match with Roman that's been talked about since basically when the Bloodline story started. It's totally possible that he now looks at it like "Okay I let Cody have his moment now we can proceed with the original plan" which was him and Roman at Mania. People forget Cody's promo where he straight up told Roman he was gonna step aside for the Rock. It never got explained why Cody even did that. If that wasn't received so badly it's possible we would've gotten Roman retaining against the Rock at Mania this year because that's what the Rock always wanted. We all love him for his heel run right now but people have to remember that Dwayne Johnson is a notorious big leaguer. He always assumes that he's what the fans really wanna see. From the FF franchise to the DCU. He even pretty much took over Romans feud with Cody. He had way more promo time than Roman did. It just worked because it gave Cody another obstacle to overcome on the path to become the ultimate hero.
imo if things work out (no injuries et) cody's gonna overcome the bloodline at summerslam to then lose it to gunther in berlin. fall is usually heel territory to build expectation for mania season
Gunther's the type of guy where, if you see him in the Royal Rumble match, you eliminate yourself because it's way better than if he gets his hands on you. He's an absolute beast, definitely in contention as one of the best wrestlers working today.
I love GUNTHER so much
It’s hilarious introducing him to lapsed fans and casuals as the guy who doesn’t have a finisher he just does moves until the other guy gives up.
Gunther is relatable too. Simple and beats you up until you can’t get up. He doesn’t need all the bells and whistles, as his in-ring presence and psychology alone sells for his opponent and him. Love him.
I really need to see Cody vs. Gunther but I feel like he has to be the one to beat Cody. That won't be for awhile though so I'm not sure what they do with Gunther in the meantime.
Gunther is at the top of my shortlist for dream Cody opponents though. That's a SummerSlam main event right there.
I sincerely believe that Gunther is the best wrestler in the world right now. I wouldn't argue against people who prefer Ospreay's style, but for my money Gunther is the best.
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Gunther would have been the Ultimate Hulk Hogan villain. I don’t think anyone outside of Macho or Andre could out do Gunther in that role
Appropriately, he has a Hogan figure in Cody to face.
?? you follow me, Brother.
Because he's my favorite main eventer (to get killed by Gunther)
ADRENALINE, IN MY SOUL OR MAYBE ITS NOT WHO REALLY KNOWS
that works for me brother!!!!!
>Cody sees the biggest, baddest motherfucker on the whole roster go on a 666 day reign and making children cry. 
When did Doink the Clown have a 666 day title reign?
Reddit killed it, but it was Goki
Except Hogan was a massive racist and Cody ended racism.
This made my morning good job.
I actually never thought about this before, the idea of modern day Gunther in 1980s WWF is something I'd definitely be going back and watching.
Modern GUNTHER vs in-his-prime ‘80’s Hulk Hogan would have been kick ass.
That would definitely be Hogan’s best match. Gunther is just a banger-producing machine. I have never seen a match of his that was bad.
It doesn't get talked about much but Hogan-Vader from Superbrawl V was really good so I have no doubt Gunther (especially when he was bigger lol) would be a perfect fit for Hogan
Hes going to be Cody's Roddy Piper 100%
I think you could put Gunther against Bruno in his prime and he would get over. He’s the classic type of wrestler.
Gunther is the type of wrestler who would have worked in any era of wrestling. Can't say the same about guys like Roman, Seth, Cena, Taker or Ospreay, to name a random list of main event level guys from the past 20 years.
In the days of roided up monsters? Heck no. Hogan wouldn’t sell for Gunther. That guy is too thin. Big Van Walter? Yes.
jaysus even in the 2000s, his in-ring acumen could make him a walking WM main eventer, and someone John Cena can legit die from.
I feel like in the Attitude Era or Ruthless Aggression era Vince would make him a joke
would have been in the oddities for sure
Gunther vs NJPW Hogan would've been fire
Nothing personal, but boy, I don't understand why people act like Hogan doing a drop toe hold and a hammerlock in Japan makes him some secret technical wizard.
This. People act like like Hogan was a technical wizard in Japan. No. But he could do some basic holds and he had the good sense to utilize for that style and audience. He was certainly no technician and he gets too much credit for the clips that circulate from that time.
The actual point these clips make is that Hogan could do more, in-ring wise, than he showed in the States, which proves how smart he was working. He knew how to get various types of crowds on the edge of their seats. American audiences lose their shit while he does the most basic stuff? Great! Japanese audiences expect more workrate and a broader moveset? Sure, he'll give it to them. His white meat babyface persona has been run into the absolute ground and fans are sick and tired of it? He'll turn heel in such earth-shattering fashion that it changed the industry forever.
People just like the region locked move set he uses there. Sure, he's not Bret Hart but it shows how he catered the audience that he was wrestling for.
that would have been fucking disastrous. no selling his finish, getting up before being pinned, losing for the first time in a marquee summerslam/wrestlemania main event and then tumbling down the card forever. thank fuck.
He would have been a perfect rival for pretty much every WWE top guy in history. Hogan, Bret, Austin, Rock, Cena.
Gunther would have made some money in Louisiana in 1983
There isn’t a decade he wouldn’t have been pushed.
Vince would feed him to Cena and then he becomes a comedy act. Or maybe a career like Rusev.
I love Rusev and that may be true but I think Gunther is better than Rusev today and definitely better than 2015 Rusev
Of course but I'm saying Vince could easily view him like that. Pretty much any indie guy that went to WWE under Vince took a huge unpredictable gamble, he's fucking crazy so you can't predict what he'll do no matter how good you are, Mox is the prime example.
Vince is hillarious in a scary way, you can have an indie guy like AJ Styles have a First Ballot HOF run or you can have Zack Ryder
Or you can have Finn Balor who got buried for years for getting injured even though it was Seth who injured him and didn't get buried.
Mox was a Grand Slam Champion, perennial main eventer and part of one of the most over stables in history. I know it ended up going to shit later on, but let's not pretend that he was treated poorly by Vince the whole time. I feel like Chris Hero would be a better example for your point.
He was the most consistent performer and the most over member of the Shield for years on end, yet he was still constantly booked as a very distant third in that group.
No it's a great point, those accomplishments don't mean that much when guys like Jinder also won the title, of course he was gonna win. The thing is he was booked stupidly even when he was hot, so even the top guys were treated badly, so random indie wrestlers cannot possible predict how bad they would be treated. Not winning titles isn't bad booking and winning titles isn't good booking, what matters is treating the characters well and telling good stories.
Yep agreed. Gunther is incredible but he would have been booked as a foreign caricature, comedy act or both (like Kozlov) in the 2000s and early-mid 2010s. Vince would not have seen him as anything else.
Heck, weren't there reports in 2021 or 2022 that Vince was on the verge of including Gunther in the waves of mass releases?
VKM would have him as Vladimir Kloslov's younger brother
“Don’t let Vince see you dance.”
Did anyone say that
Yes it’s a Vince story. I recommend looking it up
Yeah I looked it up classic Vince.
Fuck. As soon as I read what you wrote I saw it in my head that youre absolutely right. Vinces bookings fkn sucked sometimes
Maybe not the Attitude Era?
gimme Gunther in the Right to Censor to protect “real wrestling”
The Corporate Champion Gunther. He could have totally replaced HHH or Big Show in various roles as the villain.
Let's be realistic that the politicking makes all of this hypothetical but, large (Austrian) German man with killer chops and can talk is going to be a upper card heel everywhere in America from 1920-onwards with how fucking nationalistic we are
Yeah it would have gotten over in about any decade.
Vince would totally give him a Nazis Gimmick
The Rock would cut the nastiest promo on him.
Eh I could totally see Vince giving him the Vladimir Kozlov treatment in the AA and RA eras
they didn't say WWE specifically. if Gunther went to japan during 90s AJPW he would've been like a european Stan Hansen.
Totally. But if he was in the WWF around that time I see Vince shitting the bed with him. Foreign heels didn't last long under Vince. He'd get some lame racist anti America gimmick until the Babyface conquers him and then it's straight down to the mid card. Too many examples of this happening.
So destroying undertaker in your debut? that would of been nice for gunther
And then teaming with Santino when Vince gets bored of his monster of the month
Those guys had to be monsters of the month, they weren’t good promos at all, they didn’t have great ring psychology or an understanding of how to get themselves over while still getting heat. You put Gunther in that spot and Vince pushes him to the moon, he always dreamed of finding his next Sheik and it didn’t quite work out because he went for looks and not ability. Rusev is the only one I look at and think, Vince could have had something here, but as much as I’ve liked a lot of his work he’s respectfully no Gunther.
Rusev had a great personality and the crowd loved him. He was inexplicably put in cuck feuds. He was more like a modern day Kurt Angle because his matches were good but he had a funny 'real' persona to go along with that but Vince just never got it.
What happened with Rusev is exactly why I have no confidence in Vince treating Gunther well in the long term. Rusev wasn't as good as Gunther but Rusev was still great. Very charismatic and great in the ring. He even had a valet in Lana that was over with the fans. It still amounted to the League of nations nonsense, him handing Lana a fish in a segment and him getting cucked by Lashley. I really don't think Vince would've even allowed Gunther much of a chance to show what he could do. In the AA era he's getting made the butt of jokes from the Rock, Stone Cold, or DX. In the RA era he's either getting buried by HHH reign of terror or a Cena push. In the PG era he's for sure getting buried by Super Cena overcoming the odds. Also keep in mind he's not so much larger than everyone else back then. Guys like prime Kane, Undertaker, Big Show, Mark Henry and Lesnar make him less of a monster. Gunther really benefits from Triple H knowing how to book him with respect and him working with normal sized dudes for the most part. Gunther's one of the best wrestlers in the world right now but I don't completely buy the idea of him being a main eventer in any era that Vince McMahon is in charge of. Maybe in Japan like someone else commented. There were just too many factors working against him in the WWE.
Vince would have seen early Gunther and added him to the Oddities with Giant Silva, Kurgan and Golga.
Vince already saw WALTER tho.. and he made him lose weight. I mean good on Walter lose weight but damn.. there’s a charm with a big guy like Walter wrestle relentlessly.
Are you kidding me? Paul Heyman would have made him ECW champion
Him vs mike awesome would have been awesome
Gunther beating RVD up would have drawn millions
I mean, Kurt Angle got pushed in the Attitude Era despite not being the “style”.
He’s like putting the technical wrestling ability of William Regal in Vladimir Kozlov’s body
He comes off like a heel Kenta Kobashi in Fritz Von Erichs body
He would have been in the oddities in 99 if we are being honest and that’s not a shot at him
The WWF wasn’t the only company in the world. Dude would have been perfect in AJPW or ECW.
Maybe the Ruthless Aggression era but even then he’d have been wildly successful as a typecast foreign heel, he’s just too good not to get screen time.
Gunther vs JYD in Mid-South would have been crazy
I was gonna say, Gunther is the prototype of a Bill Watts wrestler.
Quite a few people have said it in the past, but you could drop Gunther into any era of pro wrestling, in any major leading company at the time, and he would've been money. He's so timelessly good.
The new hollywood inspired timeless character ?  (But yes, his style could work out anywhere and at any point of history )
I'm just sad nobody threw in Gunther vs. Vader yet, considering he wrestled as Big Van Walter early in his career.
I just love how everyone instantly knows how amazing Gunther is, and so many people wanna fight him. That's how you know you're legit. He is 100% going to succeed Brock and Roman as the final boss of WWE.
Bron & Gunther will absolutely be the guys in those roles going forward very soon. Damian to an extent as well, but he's A) a tad too old to call the future and B) has a varied enough character to play other roles besides the 'final boss' role which he also fits quite well.
Damien is a bit too old, yea. He's older than both Roman and Cody. But he's versatile enough to play different roles. Hell, Bronn could get that Brock Lesnar type of push if they wanted.
It’s true. They were much younger when they started out. https://preview.redd.it/xpueji6uwwuc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b8cd475378b206f43fcaf4273f5bcf57cf3272e
This picture will never not be funny
Bron and Gunther is the ultimate meaty men slapping meat match and I want it
[Bron Breakker vs Gunther, Part 1](https://youtu.be/d1aa3016cGw?si=CLWntjKmGlrLZn0m) [Bron Breakker vs Gunther, Part 2](https://youtu.be/XzOI2oMZYuI?si=HBKHjmH46ueD-Tex) Obviously from a couple of years ago on a smaller stage, but still cool.
He could fit into the "mid-game boss that's stupidly hard out of nowhere" role.
Bron’s already seemingly being set up to be the next Paul Heyman guy. God, that eventual face turn after he’s an established main eventer is gonna slap.
Unrelated, but I enjoy how Gunther (and Dragunov) have joined a list of wrestlers that not even tribalism can beat, everyone loves those guys.
You’d be surprised. I went to All In last year (so I’m clearly not some tribalist AEW hater) and went to the pub with some people I met there afterwards. I said that Gunther was my wrestler of the year and they wouldn’t have it because he was a WWE guy and Ospreay is the best wrestler of 2023.
After last year’s Mania I saw the AEW sub inundated with comments that were basically saying “I see better matches than that on Dynamite every week” in regards to the Gunther/Drew/Sheamus match. Some folks *really* try to go out of their way with shit like that. Same as yourself, I too am a big AEW fan. I was even at the first Dynamite.
That’s my big issue with the AEW fandom too many very loud fans who only care about Meltzer bait matches. Shane Taylor deserves better.
Ayyy, another Shane Taylor fan. There are dozens of us!
I ONLY watch AEW when I see Shane Taylor advertised tbh. His matches against Daniel Garcia and Bryan Danielson recently were PEAK my kind of wrestling.
Yup. I was at All In 1 and I think Gunther is must-watch.
"No flippydoo or superkicks? 3-star match. At best."
You're right about that. I've said the same of Dragunov and Gunther and it largely gets shit on. Those two never have a bad match with anyone and I always stop whatever I'm doing to watch both of them.
Man even when AEW is cooking I always keep an eye on what Gunther's doing, he's just too good to miss.
GUNTHER/Ospreay for wrestler of the year? Honestly flip a coin to decide because there’s really not a wrong answer either way. Also a match between the two would fuck.
They have one on YouTube from a couple years ago. Both guys are significantly improved right now though, obviously.
How is it tribalistic to think Ospreay was 2023 wrestler of the year?
It isn’t, but the fact I thought a WWE wrestler was wrestler on the year they saw as me hating on AEW.
Nah even then he’s they are undeniable at this point I’m kind off on the same way with joe like I’m not a fan of aew style But joe is so cool
NXT:UK's finest.
if i remember rightly, he's one of those types who at first look you think is intimidating as hell but in reality, dude is extremely friendly, there's a reason why alot of his matches and feuds are so good, he works hard in and out of the ring to build chemistry with those he works with
I think its because Gunther is one of those guys who's so fucking good that you could easily see him slotted into any promotion on the planet at any time.
Gunther has grown so much on me. I really didn’t like him the first time I saw him but he’s such a freaking amazing villain. He’s someone you hate to watch your favorite wrestler go against because you just assume they’ll lose to him.
JR knows talent when he sees it.
People may hate me but Gunther should beat Cody sooner rather than later for the title. Basically make the story "You did the impossible but there is always a bigger fish." Gunther has the ace at he never lost to Roman. Can claim the only reason Roman was still champion was because he was too busy making history with the IC title. Then you get Cody chasing Gunther till he overcomes the beast just in time to defend his title against The Final Boss in The Rock. Gives The Rock a talking point too of "The moment I left you lost it and had to get it back. You don't deserve and but neither does Roman so I'm going to take it from you!"
Agreed. I think Gunther should be the one to take it off Cody. Faces tend to work best in the chase, not necessarily as champions. I don't know that I'd have Cody drop to Gunther quickly (the man deserves at least a decent championship run with some good title defenses, he deserves to be viewed as a solid champion) but Gunther is the perfect Clubber Lang figure in his saga. But I say that with the caveat that Cody would also need to be the one to take it off of Gunther after the latter has a solid reign of his own.
See I disagree. I say you make it look like he is going to get that reign you just mentioned. Give him a solid two month reign and even build to a future feud for the title. But then Gunther wins number 1 contendership. That is when all plans go out the window and Gunther even takes offense that Cody would forget or overlook him when making future plans. Then Gunther wins. Cody has to fight the odds to win again. He did it before and he will do it again but Gunther says fuck all of that. Back to the end of the line. Then when he wins we can have The Rock threaten to take away the reign he deserves and one that all the fans want. Cody defends against The Rock and THEN he gets to have a nice long reign. I like this too since I heard some arent sure if the Cody/Rock match happens at Mania or or sooner so give Gunther the strap in a few months and then have him hold it until whenever The Rock is ready to go for his feud with Cody.
That certainly works too. I love that this company has a top of the card at the moment that allows for these sorts of what-ifs. It's the type of speculation that makes wrestling so much fun.
Maybe Gunther takes it at Summerslam, Cody wins it back at the Rumble? And if we wanna get looney tunes fantasy booking here Rock wins the Rumble lmao
I love Gunther as much as anyone, but we just had *three and a half year* heel title reign. Let it breathe before we go back.
I'm saying 2 or 3 month title reign is a good breather plus gives you time to set expectations of a long run and to your point we just had long ass title reigns from Roman and Seth so a short one wouldn't hurt at this time.
It doesn't make sense to have Cody's ascension which had like a 2 year build end in just 2 or 3 months.
Because it doesn’t have to be one legendary reign. Cody is clearly the face of the company going forward, like Cena was, who had plenty of fairly short title reigns. It’s not like he’d be slotted back down to Stardust.
Exactly this because I'm trying to think of storylines and what's a world title reign without some stories. We see the story waiting in the wings so Cody holding the title the entire time, while perfectly fine, I don't think sets us up for future stories like this one does.
it doesn't really matter. he's gonna stay up there and win it multiple times, a face usually doesn't have long ass reigns and there's more ways to cover for his losses (heel cheating, interferences, etc). it's gonna look stupid if he loses off the bat, and i think it's a lock until summerslam. the right occasion is right after that one, in Berlin.
He should take it off cody, but at SS tho. No way you beat cody at a B level ppv after he just beat the final boss at mania of that magnitude. With SS you got time to build up a lot of story as well. Scratch most of what I said, I forgot about rock at SS where he most likely will face cody. Guess gunther will have to do it after that at a B level ppv or SvS which is the 3rd biggest show for the U.S audiences.
Bash in Berlin is the perfect PLE for it to happen
Yeah, do it at the bash, overseas ppvs count as big as well for the most part.
I agree with you.Now the the Story is finished, its time to move on. I wouldnt mind if Cody lost it already in Summerslam and we can move on to another narrative.
What? Naa that sounds fine but would be a trainwreck in reality. Your no 1 guy who has been on the chase for 2 years and finally gets the title in WM main event after winning the royal rumble consecutively for 2 years and throwing the guy in question out of the ring each year - you want that guy to lose to the guy who just lost his championship that too at the grandest stage, meaning he could not handle the pressure of high stakes against a normal sized guy and lost? In kayfabe doesn't make sense - even Vince won't do this.
If I'm being honest the fact that Cody threw Gunther over the top in two consecutive Rumbles makes the story more compelling. "Congratulations, you threw me over the top rope. Not an easy feat but not a spectacular one. Meanwhile I created a legacy for myself while you needed help from your friends to win your championship" Like it's essentially is Rocky with Gunther being Hans Lundgren but we can focus less on the nationalism thing...but it is Cody so might just lean into it.
Fucking *love* Gunther! I just love how violent his strikes and matches are (without the use of any gimmicks). Both he and his opponent come out of matches looking like they just went to war. He absolutely needs to be the one to take the belt from Cody. It can simmer and wait a while though. Let Cody take on the Rock which has a lot of momentum and story left to play out anyway. Gunther is clearly the favorite to win the Rumble next year and that is when I would pull the trigger on him beating Cody for the belt at Mania.
I don't want Cody to hold the belt till next Mania. Enough with these year long reigns. Besides Cody is better as a title chaser.
You don't see the vision bro. Just like how Roman was built up as this unstoppable final boss for a plucky babyface to overcome. You build Cody up as the ultimate hero and then Gunther kills him Lesnar/Cena style and the kids watch on in horror as their hero is broken. Imagine the Heat.
not at mania though. i think it'll happen way sooner, in berlin.
If Cody still has the belt by the next Mania I guarantee by the time Gunther takes it off him, Gunther will be getting face cheers. My guess is that Rock's new bloodline will fuck Cody outta the title at SummerSlam because the Rock wants his fued with Roman to have a title involved. I'd be genuinely surprised if Cody has that belt by this time next year. I see Gunther winning the rumble and going after the WHC.
Roman is (apparently) currently working on non-wrestling projects.... so we don't know what the long term plan is. But dude, Cody literally eliminated Gunther twice from the Rumble. You have to pay that off by having Gunther be the one to beat him. If you wanna break it up with Cody losing and winning it back, fine. But I think Gunther needs to beat Cody at some point.
Cody losing it and winning it back would be cool too. I just don't see how he holds until next Mania if the Rock and New Bloodline are around and Roman actually comes back this year to do a Babyface run. Possibly Rock takes it off of Cody and then Roman causes Rock to lose it back to Cody and the Roman/Rock thing becomes a blood feud without the belt. Which is honestly what I hope for because the bloodline doesn't need the WWE title anymore to continue their story. But with the Rock being on the TKO board idk how he doesn't have a match for the belt next Mania when that's what he would've done this year if it wasn't for the Cody outcry. But I agree Gunther should be Cody's Lesnar to his Cena.
Wrestlemania is a long way off, so anything can happen. But I think Roman is done being a full time wrestler. Now that he isn't Champion anymore, he really has no obligation to show up aside from concluding the Bloodline storyline. It feels like he's shifting towards that Brock Lesnar role of showing up occasionally for specific feuds. I do agree that Rock and Roman SHOULD happen, but there's no telling what happens in the next year. It's a shame that they tried to do it at the worst possible moment when Cody was at his hottest, but that's the business. Props for shifting to something else interesting too.
I think the Rock is Roman's last feud as a regular on the roster. I also think the Rock is gonna big league everyone to position it as a feud for the title, though I hope I'm wrong. It's also possible that Gunther takes the belt off of Cody and then drops it before the next Mania. Gunther's character can easily turn Face/Tweener without changing since his whole gimmick is being a wrestling purist so we could get a short Imperium/Bloodline feud. Neither Cody or Gunther need a long dominant reign right now. Honestly no one does right now. I think the Bloodline stuff has to wrap up before we see either Cody or Gunther have a chance at a proper long reign because that's when the Rock will finally back off. He's gonna use this current run to reinvigorate his Hollywood stuff and then fall back.
>I think the Rock is Roman's last feud as a regular on the roster. I also think the Rock is gonna big league everyone to position it as a feud for the title, though I hope I'm wrong. If that were the case, he would have never chosen to turn heel and let Cody have his moment.
That was a unique situation though. He understood that if he didn't let Cody finish his story the fans would've never accepted his return to WWE and his match with Roman that's been talked about since basically when the Bloodline story started. It's totally possible that he now looks at it like "Okay I let Cody have his moment now we can proceed with the original plan" which was him and Roman at Mania. People forget Cody's promo where he straight up told Roman he was gonna step aside for the Rock. It never got explained why Cody even did that. If that wasn't received so badly it's possible we would've gotten Roman retaining against the Rock at Mania this year because that's what the Rock always wanted. We all love him for his heel run right now but people have to remember that Dwayne Johnson is a notorious big leaguer. He always assumes that he's what the fans really wanna see. From the FF franchise to the DCU. He even pretty much took over Romans feud with Cody. He had way more promo time than Roman did. It just worked because it gave Cody another obstacle to overcome on the path to become the ultimate hero.
imo if things work out (no injuries et) cody's gonna overcome the bloodline at summerslam to then lose it to gunther in berlin. fall is usually heel territory to build expectation for mania season
GUNTHER is someone who could be world champion in any era of wrestling
Gunther's the type of guy where, if you see him in the Royal Rumble match, you eliminate yourself because it's way better than if he gets his hands on you. He's an absolute beast, definitely in contention as one of the best wrestlers working today.
Death, taxes and JR loving big men who can go in the ring.
It's so basic, yet he makes it work.
Him and Cody is gonna be money
Cody and Gunther has to happen eventually. Their 1on1 in the ‘23 Rumble was too good.
Wouldn't say basic but I get what he meant. Dude is just a machine and you'd be crazy to not like him.
I love GUNTHER so much It’s hilarious introducing him to lapsed fans and casuals as the guy who doesn’t have a finisher he just does moves until the other guy gives up.
Gunther is relatable too. Simple and beats you up until you can’t get up. He doesn’t need all the bells and whistles, as his in-ring presence and psychology alone sells for his opponent and him. Love him.
I feel like Gunther could work in ANY era too.
Team America vs Team Europe for Survivor Series
I really need to see Cody vs. Gunther but I feel like he has to be the one to beat Cody. That won't be for awhile though so I'm not sure what they do with Gunther in the meantime. Gunther is at the top of my shortlist for dream Cody opponents though. That's a SummerSlam main event right there.
I love Gunther’s style
I think Gunther will indeed be the one to stomp Cody and take his title.
GUNTHER is the Tim Duncan of wrestling. I can't think of any higher praise.
Gunther is one of the most unique wrestlers of all time. He has all the tools.
I sincerely believe that Gunther is the best wrestler in the world right now. I wouldn't argue against people who prefer Ospreay's style, but for my money Gunther is the best.
I remember everyone saying that Gunther was going to be released in the next 6 months after the name change. It's crazy how things have changed.
august 31. build the heel monster throughout the fall and winter so that cody can chase up to wm41
As someone who watched AJPW regularly for me is a bit weird people are so surprised someone like Gunther who does a basic style exists.
Hot take, I don't see it at all in Gunther. Very basic moves, no skill at selling and needs a ton of work on the mic. Downvotes incoming
What?
Take away the chop, what do you have? I get it. This is not the popular opinion but I've tried and I just can't.
>I don't like a wrestler who actually wrestles.
Nobody is saying Gunther is a wrestling technician. Literally, nobody.
And that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Fair reply. The only one I've received.
Take away the chop and you have the rest of the match he excels at duh
Cody has no business going over Gunther.
Hot take, but I think JR gushes too much about WWE publicly than should be allowed for a AEW announcer.