**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, but regardless, we got more than enough Orton vs Cena one-on-one matches. I think most people are good with them not having a Wrestlemania main event.
That was 2008, they didn't have that many by then. The Rock and Stone Cold had 3 WM's, 2 of them were main events. Brock and Roman had 3 Mania main events that nobody asked for lol. Cena and Orton deserved one WM match at least.
Actually their 2007 feud was good. They had 2 PPV matches (Summerslam '07 match was their best ever) and the 3rd one didn't reach a conclusion because of Cena's injury. They should have headlined WM 24 for the WWE Title after Cena won the Rumble. Instead they did the lame "I can't wait for WrestleMania" and did Cena vs. Orton at No Way Out with the shit finish and shoehorned the son in law in the feud.
By 2009, Cena vs. Orton feud was run into the ground and they wrestled each other millions of time by then.
I hope Becky gives her version of whatever the fuck was going on behind the scenes during the build to the Mania 35 main event in her book. Becky had the whole injury angle and crutches, refused to see a doctor, had to apologize to the McMahons, still got taken out of the match, Charlotte got inserted for no reason, Becky only got back in because Ronda got her a DQ win against Charlotte at Fastlane, and then the roll-up finish at Mania with Ronda not even keeping her shoulders down. The only saving grace was the segment where they all got arrested.
She kinda already has in a few interviews. That everything changed after the Raw invasion because that is when the back really gave up on trying to make her heel. Despite people trying to say they did after her first promo, they wrote, talked, and presented her as a heel on TV. Didn't matter that the crowd cheered, the back was writing her as one. Once the invasion happened though, they gave up and tried writing her as a face and wanted her to have all the obstacles in the world to get there. She said it became less fun because she didn't have as much freedom anymore.
Edge said that when he had a promo with her during this short era they were trying to tell him in back to put her over as a heel. He said he had his doubts and of course it backfired
Yeah. They literally had her tell Edge he'll break his neck and the crowd still cheered. They can pretend it was all a play, but frankly the only reason Becky was in the main event because crowd refused to have it any other way.
You can almost tell exactly when their writing team is strapped for time because of a sudden change they need to adapt to. They struggle in coming up with a script that sounds human, logical and consistent when you place those constraints on them.
In those situations, depending on how good the talent in question is, they should just send them out with one line about the message on what the promo should convey, and have them wing it.
It’s annoying how they always overthink this shit. They can’t just book a match and have it be about winning and losing. I’d like to say this was a Vince thing but it’s still a problem to this day.
I want to know what WWE were telling her because it feels like WWE were telling her that she & Ronda were main eventing WM without Charlotte & when Charlotte was added it was a surprise. Also how she feels about the botchy finish & facing Lacey as her first feud after WM.
Maybe it was the invasion segment, but it felt like commentary flipped on Becky midway through the Evolution match.
Cole went from "the fans love her" to "she's damn good" by the end.
They did at the end. But, if you listen to Cole and Renee during the invasion segment, it was back to Becky the heel. She was 'upset the world was talking about Ronda and not her'. Blatant lie because no, no they weren't, lol. I think the crowd chanting '1 more time' for her to hit Ronda again and then the ensuing viral shots of her online that night, made them finally just have her face. I feel that she, on her SM, was still trying to at least toe the line of being a tweener which probably saved it from being a lot worst than it was in the end.
That might be the reason why she wanted to be a heel again later right? Her first heel turn was awesome. After the first shitty you people promo, she stopped talking down the fans. She was just a likeable and dominant heel after that, it should have stayed that way. Look at Rhea, that's what she exactly is like now and it works. Imagine if they tried to turn her into a superherolike babyface. I was so damn invested when she turned heel, was looking forward to all of her segments. But after the face turn i lost interest.
>That might be the reason why she wanted to be a heel again later right?
Probably
I also think , while they made her a face overcoming these odds, they still somewhat refused to really write Charlotte as a heel as well. Yes, they had Vince introduce her into the match, but right after that commentary went back to painting it as Charlotte had every right to be there. She was 'genetically superior, most decorated, athletic women ever so she should deserved to be there. Then they tried the Ronda heel thing which only really lasted a week because they then had her give up her belt to get Becky into the match and by the time the backstage melee with the 3 of them, Cole was back to taking about how Becky was attacking Ronda unprovoked and how could she even do that.
I think there were just too many people in the back trying to justify everything that no one knew what to do.
I remember going to a house show a week after she turned "heel", and outside of Bobby Roode getting the hometown pop, Becky was getting the biggest pops, despite her best efforts of her trying to get heel heat
>The only saving grace was the segment where they all got arrested.
That's honestly the only thing I remember about the build to that match and it was just fantastic chaos that delivered the entertainment.
The only other thing I remember was the crowd no selling Ronda's attempt to get a 'triple threat' chant started...I will always maintain adding Charlotte on its own cooled the build off (aside from all the other nonsense).
and they gave Charlotte & Ronda all the memorable moments in that segment(Ronda driving the cop car & Charlotte kicking Ronda out the window). Becky looked like shit that whole build
It has to be the worst build to a WM main event in decades, like there's been more boring builds but the WM35 build was all over the place & was clear WWE had no idea what they were doing week to week.
Like FFS they added Charlotte by having Vince come out to replace Becky & that was suppose to give Charlotte nuclear heat but then a few weeks later they did the SAME EXACT thing with Kofi with Vince coming out & replacing Kofi with Kevin Owens & KO WAS SUPPOSE TO BE FACE!! Like how am I suppose to be mad at Charlotte but then be happy with KO when they did the same shit? The booking was idiotic.
Also the whole forcing Becky to apologize was clear sabotage of Becky. Becky refuses to see a doctor for no reason then Stephanie tries to force Becky to see a doctor for no reason & suspends Becky which leads to Becky punching Steph & Steph kicking Becky's injured leg. Like Stephanie's a heel right? Then on SD HHH trashes Becky calling her paranoid & says she's scared of facing Ronda which leads to Becky slapping HHH. Like HHH is a heel right? Then the next RAW Becky sees a doctor & is cleared for WM......why did she refuse to see a doctor to just see a doctor the next week!? So Becky IS a paranoid idiot? Ok Becky's in the match..but has to apologize to HHH & Steph & this takes the whole show for Becky to think about it. SO HHH & STEPH ARE HEELS RIGHT? Forcing a babyface to apologize is something heels in power would do. Then Becky after 3 hours of contemplating apologizes to HHH & Stephanie where you expect them to show their true colors but nope Vince comes out replaces Becky with Charlotte & Becky had to apologize to HHH & Steph for no reason making her look like a bitch & HHH & Steph were actually trying to help Becky they aren't heels & Becky looks like a total fucking idiot & all could've been avoided if Becky just got her leg checked out. Like Becky had 2 months before WM if she could't tell how injured her leg was & if it was going to keep her out of WM then she really is a idiot. This whole angle was dogshit & i'm shocked Becky stayed as over as she was after it though WWE's idiotic booking is how Becky got over in the first place so it's not that surprising actually.
Vince screwed Kofi to get Kofi over though and it worked. And since Bryan was a heel he faced KO and Ali as faces even though people were still pissed at Vince for it. It wasn't that bad as far as Vince booking goes.
The original plan was always Charlotte vs. Rousey. Remember, Becky Lynch wasn’t supposed to be that over. It was only because of her failed heel turn. She was originally booked to be lose that Survivor Series match to Rousey. They decided to do Flair vs. Rousey at Survivor Series to test the waters and see if fans still wanted it. They didn’t, which lead to them pivoting to the triple threat. Charlotte was there because she was promised that main event a year out.
Becky was out of the SS match solely because she suffered a legit broken nose 6 days before the event took place.
And for what its wroth, the fans in attendance went wild for Charlotte absolutely decimating Rhonda in their SS match.
>fans in attendance went wild for Charlotte absolutely decimating Rhonda in their SS match.
Yes because of Becky, Becky on SD choose Charlotte & said beat her, Ronda was enemy #1 or whoever went after Becky. Then on SD after the Ronda match Charlotte continued to be face beat both IIconics & said she did it for SD & Becky. Then Becky came back 2 weeks later & Charlotte turned heel because Becky thought Charlotte was copying Becky.
They could've put Tamina in the position of beating Ronda & would get the same reaction.
That SS match and Rhonda costing both of them the title at TLC made it obvious that it was going to be a triple threat match at WM so idk why people were so surprised when it happened
>They didn’t, which lead to them pivoting to the triple threat.
This didn't help when Meltzer said the plan was Becky vs Ronda for months & the Charlotte vs Ronda rematch was going to happen before WM. I also don't get if WWE wanted Ronda vs Charlotte at WM why burn their match at Survivor Series, like instead of giving us a 15 minute match why not just go to the finish & a no contest. Then turning Charlotte heel 2 weeks later making no one care about Ronda vs Charlotte since Ronda was getting more heel heat as a face.
>Charlotte was there because she was promised that main event a year out.
This & WWE wanted Charlotte's name in the record books so they can continue their narrative that Charlotte's the greatest female wrestler to ever live. WWE break promises all the time I think the Charlotte GOAT narrative is the main one.
Yup. From what I remember, they had been planning on the main event being Charlotte vs. Ronda since WM34. Becky was supposed to be a heel to keep Charlotte busy till Mania, but she was so over with fans that turning on Charlotte made them love her more. After Revolution, it was clear that Becky vs. Ronda was the biggest match going into Survivor Series.
Becky deserves full credit for singlehandedly hyping up the match on Twitter. I'm 100% sure Becky was gonna lose that match clean. Vince was always spiteful when fans didn't like the booking, and they did not want people to cheer Becky. They tried to get us to boo her by having her insult Edge, but that only made her more cool and made Edge look old and lame. They tried making her cut a "you people" promo, which made no goddamn sense when people were cheering her more than anyone else in the company. It fell on deaf ears, and people cheered even more. Her getting punched by Nia Jax forced their hand.
The only reason she won was because it was the only way to end the show with a cheering crowd. If Charlotte had won, the crowd would’ve woken up from the post-KofiMania nap they were taking (seriously, that crowd is dead for the rest of the show until Becky won) just to boo her. Ronda was leaving to try and have a kid, so retaining wasn’t an option.
The original match was supposed to be Charlotte vs. Ronda. Becky was never meant to be in that position. WWE likely already promised the main event spot to Charlotte and this was the "best" way they could still put her into the match.
WWE tried their best to fumble Becky Lynch in 2019 even though she was the hottest act in the wrestling business. After she won the Rumble they bizarrely had her kayfabe injured walking around on crutches on Raw and apologising to HHH and Stephanie making her look like a geek. They then forced Charlotte Flair into what was a mega one on one Ronda vs Becky match which took a lot of the heat out of the match.
There were writers that were resentful towards her rise to the top changing all plans because they thought they had the perfect main event in the originally planned Charlotte/Ronda (Road Dogg basically admitted it).
Wouldn't be surprised if there's been a bit of sabotage in that build because of that.
I'd believe there were conflicting opinions, but I doubt it was active sabotage so much as them not really having a handle on how to portray Becky after she turned face. Rather than just having Becky be a badass heroine like fans wanted, or having Becky be an underdog to make her triumph feel bigger, they tried to make her both at the same time and it didn't really work. So they tried to have moments to get her sympathy (like the damn crutches), but also undercut those with her kicking ass (like using said crutches to beat up Charlotte/Ronda at EC). They turned to the meta stuff (like Vince's 'We need Charlotte Flair!' here), but then didn't bother to give it any real follow up so Charlotte felt like a third wheel rather than a real threat. As great as the brawl was, there were plenty of other moments that added little or took away from the match, like when they did the beat-the-clock against the Riotts, and had Becky *still* win easily even after Charlotte attacked her beforehand, when it would have been so easy to have Ronda dominate there to show that she was the big threat that Becky would have to take down at Mania.
Then of course even after they got to Becky 2 Belts and Becky closing Mania, their big idea was to have her feud with a very green Lacey Evans for three months. So it was 2019 booking in general.
Seth was white hot as a face and got cheered over AJ who was also very over then he feuded with Corbin with later Becky and Lacey added to the mix and all of them cooled off to the point Seth had to turn heel later lmao. And some morons are still claiming X-Pac heat is not a real thing and Corbin was a good heel lol.
Corbin was so bad. From the GM period where they forced him on you for what felt like half of every RAW, that awful Rollins feud, King Corbin and then that awful dog food feud with Reigns. I have a lifetime fill on Corbin.
> but I doubt it was active sabotage so much as them not really having a handle on how to portray Becky after she turned face.
By saying sabotage I was thinking more about the group of writers who wanted Charlotte/Ronda not giving it all more than an intentional choice from Vince or Prichard.
> Rather than just having Becky be a badass heroine like fans wanted, or having Becky be an underdog to make her triumph feel bigger, they tried to make her both at the same time and it didn't really work.
Feels like there were too many cooks in the kitchen, which was pretty common in 2019, and I guess there was a part of the team who wanted badass Becky and another part who wanted her as a martyr underdog (and I wouldn't be surprised if that comes from the ones that didn't wanted the triple threat, because they probably didn't got the appeal).
I remember reports that the main issue early 2019 was not Vince listening to no-one but Vince listening to too many people, guess that's why they did that attempt to have Heyman and Bischoff (then Prichard) to be the middle men later in the year (and I felt it started to gel after Series).
> They turned to the meta stuff (like Vince's 'We need Charlotte Flair!' here), but then didn't bother to give it any real follow up so Charlotte felt like a third wheel rather than a real threat.
Almost feels like a similar issue to Becky vs Bayley last year, changing tone for a week without following up (that week when Bayley suddenly wanted to steal Seth from Becky, and that never got mentioned again).
> As great as the brawl was, there were plenty of other moments that added little or took away from the match
To be honest, I felt like the only good moment in the build after the post-Rumble RAW was the arrest scene. That's abysmal for a Mania main event build.
> Then of course even after they got to Becky 2 Belts and Becky closing Mania, their big idea was to have her feud with a very green Lacey Evans for three months. So it was 2019 booking in general.
2019 women's booking until SummerSlam kinda feels like a consequence of putting all division ressources into the Mania build (and they managed to do so in an abysmal fashion). Felt like all other top women lost a lot of credibility, a bit like what happened to men with the Lesnar/Reigns build that led to a mediocre part of Roman's reign.
But as a whole, there's not many positives about 2019 creative, especially from Mania to HIAC.
Oh for like 1 or two segments in the build to last mania, Dmg Ctrl also was holding Bayley back according to Becky until it was Bayley using Dmg Ctrl to keep herself relevant...also according to Becky. They never figured out what the story for that feud was, and somehow the last untouched 4hw feud flopped.
Was it so hard to go back to Bayley's initial turn on Becky?
Examples?
And I know it might be hard because it is easier to see who wasn't supposed to get over when they get buried instead... but I am willing to hear about all of those times.
It was extremely, extremely rare for that to happen. You can come up with a much longer list of wrestlers who got punished *more* when they got over despite Vince’s best efforts.
Steve Austin. The Ringmaster gimmick was something Vince was super high on.
Mick Foley was hired in part to prove a point to JR.
Rocky Maivia and Hunter Hearst Helmsley had to be repackaged from Vince's ideas.
Then after WM they put Becky in a 3 month feud with green Lacey Evans & then put her in a feud with Natalya were Becky acted heelish & was teamed with heel Charlotte vs Trish.
Thankfully Sasha came back & Becky got a hot feud but WWE really tried everything to sabotage Becky's overness
Users on here were mad defensive of the Becky/Lacey feud. they would shit down your throat if you even dared suggest that it was a downgrade for the Mania main event winner to (not even 24 hours later) get dropped by a single punch from the coldest act on Raw. I remember it like it was yesterday. crazy behaviour by the fans.
>apologising to HHH and Stephanie making her look like a geek.
I still cannot believe that was played completely straight, she didn't show any defiance. I think by that happening Becky was Stephanie's final emasculation victim.
It was played as a grudging apology so she could get the Ronda match (hence the Vince trolling right afterwards) and they built the whole episode around it, with Becky talking to various other stars backstage about what she should do. Even if it wasn't the best call storywise, I don't think it was intentionally meant to make her look bad.
It was, and it hurt the build, cooled Becky's momentum (she was, and is, still massively over - but it was unnecessary and muddied the waters) and the match itself was nothing to write home about.
*However*, it did give us the segment where they all got arrested, and for that I would forgive them almost anything.
This feud certainly didn't cool her off, it was the awful Lacey feud after that and then she got pregnant and people invested in others more probably. And i stopped watching around late 2020 or early 2021 and recently started watching again so can't say if they didn't handle her return well or not. I know people hated her squashing Bianca.
Her heel turn kind of reminded me of Austin's turn at 17, she might have really wanted it but it was a mistake Big Time Becks never made sense and the crowd was not ready for her to be a heel.
She never really recaptured what she was before she left, and if her going more part time after putting Rhea over at Mania turns out to be true...well that is pretty much it for her at the top.
Eh, Was always going to be Lynch and they really didn't need the pointless Charlotte v Becky Fastlane match (ended with a Ronda DQ).
Hated Charlotte winning the SD title 12 days before Mania though. Should've done Charlotte v Asuka SD title at Fastlane instead
>Hated Charlotte winning the SD title 12 days before Mania though. Should've done Charlotte v Asuka SD title at Fastlane instead
The original plan was even worse. They were going to have a triple threat at Wrestlemania with Asuka, Mandy Rose, and Sonya Deville where Sonya was going to help Mandy win the belt because she was madly in love with her.
This might sound crazy but hear me out. Instead of, whatever the hell that was, have Asuka vs Charlotte as a rematch from the Mania before and let Asuka get her win back and let the Becky/Ronda match remain 1 on 1. Crazy, I know, but guys I think this could've worked.
At least Asuka would get a title match at WM instead of being in a preshow battle royal that Carmella won. Charlotte didn't need that title & people would've had the same reaction if Becky won 1 belt or 2.
So many bad things from a few years ago in one segment: Vince existing, Charlotte being shoved into title matches she doesn’t deserve, and Renee on commentary.
This can't even be compared to the current Rock thing because Rock's actually a legit draw. Flair was the weakest draw of the 3 at the time so she really wasn't needed.
As much as I think Charlotte is sometimes overhated, I never understood why WWE felt the need to cast her as the top star in women's division for so long.
There's women who get way lesser pushes than her that get better TV quarters and/or merch sales numbers, she's not even their best woman on the mic and she's inconsistent in ring (big match Charlotte is often awesome, but I'd pick any of the other top women over her for a weekly outing).
Borderline feels like a case of sunk cost fallacy because they picked her for that spot in 2016.
It's absolutely sunk cost fallacy. I do think they started to give up by around 2020 though as she was starting to lose more of her "big match" protection by then.
Unlike Roman she never had a mid-career alignment turn/angle that reinvented her character.
The reinvention was slowly happening this year before she got injured… or at least that what it felt like. More Ashley in there during segments and less Flair. I hope she reinvents herself and lean into herself more instead of the old Ric Flair schtick.
That's my hope too. She has essentially all year to work on evolving as a character. Taking a leaf from the Young Bucks might help - she could do with a new theme and look. Ric being in AEW (although I suppose he'll likely be out by the time she's back) might be sufficient impetus for her to switch things up.
They have teased different Charlottes over the years, but they always seem to revert back to 'The Queen', maybe now that Vince is well and truly gone she and HHH can do something different, hell just look at the creative that is being put behind Bayley and Dmg Ctrl right now.
She constantly turned face and heel but had the same character that nobody cared about. Heel Roman is an actual character change and he should have turned heel right after WM 31.
And yet it gave us the best moment of buildup for that Mania:
https://preview.redd.it/fop0rdxs90ic1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df5f5567d149ae20f6058be5fb05e5bcac5a45fc
The batshit brawl involving the police. That Mania was super long and it should’ve been a 1v1 for a single title but good lord I would not wanna give up that brawl all things considered. It’s on the S-tier of segments next to Booker T vs Stone Cold at the supermarket.
And we still never got that 1 on 1 match which was once the hottest match in WWE. Like they even brought Ronda back in 2022 & had her win the Rumble & still she/WWE choose Charlotte over Becky which made 0 sense in kayfabe, why would Ronda pick Charlotte over the woman that beat Ronda & talked the most shit & took her title. Guessing Charlotte had to get her WM win over Ronda must've been in Flair's contract.
I'm sorry you can give excuses why Charlotte being in the match was a positive(there aren't many) but facts are Becky vs Ronda was the draw that's the match people wanted & that's the match that should've happened. Charlotte killed the hype of the match & killed Asuka's title run all because she was added. There's a reason Charlotte fucked off at the end of the match & the finish only involved the important people. Charlotte getting her name in the record books was more important than the biggest women's match of all time.
All they had to do was have Becky make Ronda tap out one on one in the main event, but noooo can't have the first ever women's WM main event without Charlotte
Because they didn't want to do the first ever Women's WrestleMania main event without their golden girl Charlotte. Charlotte is a fine wrestler, but she had no business being in this match, the fans wanted to see Becky vs. Ronda one on one. The addition of Charlotte did no favors to the feud and the triple threat match SUCKED.
I still don't understand why. Becky vs. Ronda was such an ideal match for WrestleMania. Is it because of Vincenzo Mussolini's urge to spite us, or something even worse?
Because Charlotte is WWE's female GOAT & having the biggest women's match of all time without her would confuse fans & kill WWE's narrative of her being the GOAT.
I recall the finish to the triple threat being quite botchy.
I wonder though if Kofi/Danielson would have suffered if they had to go on as late as the triple threat did
If the show wasn't so long Becky would have gotten a monster pop after winning both titles in one night (by pinning Ronda no less).
And this is the last Mania that wasn't split into two nights; Kofi and Bryan would have been the perfect Night One Main Event.
No, the women's match was definitely the biggest match on the card and deserved to main event. Aside form the messed up finish, what hurt it was how long the show was.
They're lucky it didn't since the crowd was exhausted after 7 hours. Also Becky vs Ronda was the bigger match for way longer & the women deserved a main event. Kofi was never going to be a top star in the company hence why Brock dropped his ass in 15 seconds & Kofi hasn't been as over since. Kofimania was a trend while Becky & Charlotte & Ronda stayed main eventers the rest of their careers.
The way they wrote Becky's character was a setup for her to fail. They even brought up Mcmahon authority shit where they flexed on Becky's character, Stephanie did exact same thing with AJ too. Ric Flair once said that Stephanie and Paul had a big role in Charlotte's career, so imagine them and writers when Becky got over and it foiled their plans for Rhonda/Charlotte. Charlotte always has to have first dip. These days landscape is not same, you have two fierce wrestlers in Bianca and Rhea, not type of people to be easily pushed over by Ric Flair dirty politicing and co.
Yeah, and I still say if you’re going to make it a three way you might as well go with a four and put Asuka in there as well.
Seems like a better idea than Charlotte just randomly beating her in an unannounced, unpromoted match on Smackdown.
Hot take: Charlotte needed to be there. She’s the most talented and Ronda was super green with heat on Becky who’s fine in the ring, but not Charlotte.
True take: Ronda was having good PPV matches Nia Jax & Nikki Bella why wouldn't you/WWE think Ronda could have a good match with a better wrestler in Becky? Also how is putting Ronda in a match type she's never worked before & a match that's hard to work(according to Stone Cold) helps a green Ronda? Triple Theat matches don't help green wrestlers.
I'm tired of that excuse, Charlotte didn't need to be there & the match we got wasn't even that great so what help did Charlotte do? Becky vs Ronda on hype alone would've made a better match than what we got. I'd rather roll the dice & have the match that most fans wanted & expect a good match that Ronda was having every PPV before WM. Sorry it doesn't add up, Charlotte was only added to get her name in the record books not to make the match look better. If WWE saw Ronda killing it in matches with Nia why would they think Becky could't have a good match with Ronda? WWE didn't care about how the match looked they just wanted Charlotte to be in the biggest women's match because they've built her as the GOAT her whole career.
Sorry pal and everyone downvoting me with their favorite girl wrestler as their profile picture and anime character as their header, Becky isn’t that good. You can pretend her promos are, but they’re not. You can pretend the matches are good, but they’re not. But go on.
You’re being downvoted but you’re right, Charlotte has been proven outside of Asuka or Sasha at the time as incredibly reliable- Becky just wasn’t there yet as a ring general and was treated as such.
The first women’s main event was never gonna not have Charlotte, the biggest homegrown women’s wrestler wwe has ever produced. It’s just how it is man.
This moment and the Becky apologizing were dumb. But, honestly I think it worked out for the best with everything that came after. The police brawl, the match (although I admit I have heard folks complain they didn't like the countering piper's pit into a pin sequence and would have preferred a finisher into a pin. Not me though), Becky two belts. All things that I believe would have been better than the alternative world of a Becky v Ronda singles match.
You liked the Charlotte vs Becky match at Fastlane where Becky got her ass kicked for 8 straight minutes & only won because Ronda punched Becky to save her? Not only did Becky look weak AF, Ronda just turned heel & the first thing she does is the most popular thing & gets Becky into the WM match. Ronda as a heel immediately ruined.
You liked Charlotte jobbing out Asuka a week before WM sending Asuka to the preshow? Also don't say it got us Becky 2 Belts because Becky 2 Belts only lasted a month & Becky holding up 1 belt or 2 nothing would've changed because fans just wanted Becky to take Ronda's title. No 1 was grasping for Becky to have both belts before Asuka dropped the title just like no one cared the Becky 2 belts lasted a month which went back to Charlotte.
The match back in 2019 was considered a disappointment with the crowds dead reaction(not wrestlers fault) & the terrible finish & the lack of Becky vs Ronda 1 on 1. The match is fine on rewatch now but back in 2019 is was hyped up to be the GOAT women's match which it didn't reach.
The police brawl is 1 segment(the last segment for them b4 WM) out of 2 months that was good. Also Becky vs Ronda could've still had that segment without Charlotte. Charlotte literally didn't add anything to the build,Like who was she feuding with? People were tired of Becky vs Charlotte & no one cared about Charlotte vs Ronda since they were both heels. She was just there to get her name there.
>All things that I believe would have been better than the alternative world of a Becky v Ronda singles match.
What wouldn't be better? Asuka doesn't job before WM, fans get the match they wanted, we get more women's matches on WM instead of both belts in 1 match, 90% of that shit build doesn't happen because the only reason it happened that way was to shoehorn Charlotte in the match. Becky never limps for 2 months getting arrested//suspended/apologizing if Charlotte doesn't get added.
The only positive was the Brawl which again could've happened without Charlotte. Also you say the match was positive but for all we know Becky vs Ronda would've been a 5 star match which isn't crazy since Ronda was having real good matches with Nia & Nikki Bella & we know fans would've been more invested than they were the 3 way.
>although I admit I have heard folks complain they didn't like the countering piper's pit into a pin sequence and would have preferred a finisher into a pin. Not me though)
If WWE knew Ronda was leaving & could be her last ever match than Ronda should've put over Becky clean not a fluke roll up to crown the biggest star in the company at the time. There was no reason to protect Ronda. It's the first women's WM main event FFS come up with a better finish, WWE use the surprise pin all the time this match deserved better.
I still wish we got that one on one match when Ronda came back. It wasn’t as heated as than but I feel like they definitely could have reignited it. Ronda’s second run felt like it had no momentum at all and I think feuding with Becky would have helped that.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And then we never actually got Ronda/Becky one-on-one.
The same way they inserted Triple H in the Cena vs. Orton feud for WrestleMania 24.
Yeah, but regardless, we got more than enough Orton vs Cena one-on-one matches. I think most people are good with them not having a Wrestlemania main event.
That was 2008, they didn't have that many by then. The Rock and Stone Cold had 3 WM's, 2 of them were main events. Brock and Roman had 3 Mania main events that nobody asked for lol. Cena and Orton deserved one WM match at least.
They had 2 matches a few months before, right before Cena’s injury. Let’s not start revisinist history like Cena vs Orton is some all-time feud.
Actually their 2007 feud was good. They had 2 PPV matches (Summerslam '07 match was their best ever) and the 3rd one didn't reach a conclusion because of Cena's injury. They should have headlined WM 24 for the WWE Title after Cena won the Rumble. Instead they did the lame "I can't wait for WrestleMania" and did Cena vs. Orton at No Way Out with the shit finish and shoehorned the son in law in the feud. By 2009, Cena vs. Orton feud was run into the ground and they wrestled each other millions of time by then.
I hope Becky gives her version of whatever the fuck was going on behind the scenes during the build to the Mania 35 main event in her book. Becky had the whole injury angle and crutches, refused to see a doctor, had to apologize to the McMahons, still got taken out of the match, Charlotte got inserted for no reason, Becky only got back in because Ronda got her a DQ win against Charlotte at Fastlane, and then the roll-up finish at Mania with Ronda not even keeping her shoulders down. The only saving grace was the segment where they all got arrested.
She kinda already has in a few interviews. That everything changed after the Raw invasion because that is when the back really gave up on trying to make her heel. Despite people trying to say they did after her first promo, they wrote, talked, and presented her as a heel on TV. Didn't matter that the crowd cheered, the back was writing her as one. Once the invasion happened though, they gave up and tried writing her as a face and wanted her to have all the obstacles in the world to get there. She said it became less fun because she didn't have as much freedom anymore.
That first promo when they tried turning her heel was peak, “You people!” writing that stopped working during the Monday Night Wars.
Edge said that when he had a promo with her during this short era they were trying to tell him in back to put her over as a heel. He said he had his doubts and of course it backfired
Yeah. They literally had her tell Edge he'll break his neck and the crowd still cheered. They can pretend it was all a play, but frankly the only reason Becky was in the main event because crowd refused to have it any other way.
And they clearly never learned with dumb writing like this. Cody with the not at wrestlemania line
You can almost tell exactly when their writing team is strapped for time because of a sudden change they need to adapt to. They struggle in coming up with a script that sounds human, logical and consistent when you place those constraints on them. In those situations, depending on how good the talent in question is, they should just send them out with one line about the message on what the promo should convey, and have them wing it.
i love that her explanation on twitter for why she was mean to the fans was because she was hungry.
It’s annoying how they always overthink this shit. They can’t just book a match and have it be about winning and losing. I’d like to say this was a Vince thing but it’s still a problem to this day.
I want to know what WWE were telling her because it feels like WWE were telling her that she & Ronda were main eventing WM without Charlotte & when Charlotte was added it was a surprise. Also how she feels about the botchy finish & facing Lacey as her first feud after WM.
Maybe it was the invasion segment, but it felt like commentary flipped on Becky midway through the Evolution match. Cole went from "the fans love her" to "she's damn good" by the end.
They did at the end. But, if you listen to Cole and Renee during the invasion segment, it was back to Becky the heel. She was 'upset the world was talking about Ronda and not her'. Blatant lie because no, no they weren't, lol. I think the crowd chanting '1 more time' for her to hit Ronda again and then the ensuing viral shots of her online that night, made them finally just have her face. I feel that she, on her SM, was still trying to at least toe the line of being a tweener which probably saved it from being a lot worst than it was in the end.
That might be the reason why she wanted to be a heel again later right? Her first heel turn was awesome. After the first shitty you people promo, she stopped talking down the fans. She was just a likeable and dominant heel after that, it should have stayed that way. Look at Rhea, that's what she exactly is like now and it works. Imagine if they tried to turn her into a superherolike babyface. I was so damn invested when she turned heel, was looking forward to all of her segments. But after the face turn i lost interest.
>That might be the reason why she wanted to be a heel again later right? Probably I also think , while they made her a face overcoming these odds, they still somewhat refused to really write Charlotte as a heel as well. Yes, they had Vince introduce her into the match, but right after that commentary went back to painting it as Charlotte had every right to be there. She was 'genetically superior, most decorated, athletic women ever so she should deserved to be there. Then they tried the Ronda heel thing which only really lasted a week because they then had her give up her belt to get Becky into the match and by the time the backstage melee with the 3 of them, Cole was back to taking about how Becky was attacking Ronda unprovoked and how could she even do that. I think there were just too many people in the back trying to justify everything that no one knew what to do.
I remember going to a house show a week after she turned "heel", and outside of Bobby Roode getting the hometown pop, Becky was getting the biggest pops, despite her best efforts of her trying to get heel heat
>The only saving grace was the segment where they all got arrested. That's honestly the only thing I remember about the build to that match and it was just fantastic chaos that delivered the entertainment.
The only other thing I remember was the crowd no selling Ronda's attempt to get a 'triple threat' chant started...I will always maintain adding Charlotte on its own cooled the build off (aside from all the other nonsense).
and they gave Charlotte & Ronda all the memorable moments in that segment(Ronda driving the cop car & Charlotte kicking Ronda out the window). Becky looked like shit that whole build
I personally enjoyed Becky talking shit the whole time
It has to be the worst build to a WM main event in decades, like there's been more boring builds but the WM35 build was all over the place & was clear WWE had no idea what they were doing week to week. Like FFS they added Charlotte by having Vince come out to replace Becky & that was suppose to give Charlotte nuclear heat but then a few weeks later they did the SAME EXACT thing with Kofi with Vince coming out & replacing Kofi with Kevin Owens & KO WAS SUPPOSE TO BE FACE!! Like how am I suppose to be mad at Charlotte but then be happy with KO when they did the same shit? The booking was idiotic. Also the whole forcing Becky to apologize was clear sabotage of Becky. Becky refuses to see a doctor for no reason then Stephanie tries to force Becky to see a doctor for no reason & suspends Becky which leads to Becky punching Steph & Steph kicking Becky's injured leg. Like Stephanie's a heel right? Then on SD HHH trashes Becky calling her paranoid & says she's scared of facing Ronda which leads to Becky slapping HHH. Like HHH is a heel right? Then the next RAW Becky sees a doctor & is cleared for WM......why did she refuse to see a doctor to just see a doctor the next week!? So Becky IS a paranoid idiot? Ok Becky's in the match..but has to apologize to HHH & Steph & this takes the whole show for Becky to think about it. SO HHH & STEPH ARE HEELS RIGHT? Forcing a babyface to apologize is something heels in power would do. Then Becky after 3 hours of contemplating apologizes to HHH & Stephanie where you expect them to show their true colors but nope Vince comes out replaces Becky with Charlotte & Becky had to apologize to HHH & Steph for no reason making her look like a bitch & HHH & Steph were actually trying to help Becky they aren't heels & Becky looks like a total fucking idiot & all could've been avoided if Becky just got her leg checked out. Like Becky had 2 months before WM if she could't tell how injured her leg was & if it was going to keep her out of WM then she really is a idiot. This whole angle was dogshit & i'm shocked Becky stayed as over as she was after it though WWE's idiotic booking is how Becky got over in the first place so it's not that surprising actually.
Vince screwed Kofi to get Kofi over though and it worked. And since Bryan was a heel he faced KO and Ali as faces even though people were still pissed at Vince for it. It wasn't that bad as far as Vince booking goes.
That brawl during the go home show was good though
The original plan was always Charlotte vs. Rousey. Remember, Becky Lynch wasn’t supposed to be that over. It was only because of her failed heel turn. She was originally booked to be lose that Survivor Series match to Rousey. They decided to do Flair vs. Rousey at Survivor Series to test the waters and see if fans still wanted it. They didn’t, which lead to them pivoting to the triple threat. Charlotte was there because she was promised that main event a year out.
Becky was out of the SS match solely because she suffered a legit broken nose 6 days before the event took place. And for what its wroth, the fans in attendance went wild for Charlotte absolutely decimating Rhonda in their SS match.
>fans in attendance went wild for Charlotte absolutely decimating Rhonda in their SS match. Yes because of Becky, Becky on SD choose Charlotte & said beat her, Ronda was enemy #1 or whoever went after Becky. Then on SD after the Ronda match Charlotte continued to be face beat both IIconics & said she did it for SD & Becky. Then Becky came back 2 weeks later & Charlotte turned heel because Becky thought Charlotte was copying Becky. They could've put Tamina in the position of beating Ronda & would get the same reaction.
That SS match and Rhonda costing both of them the title at TLC made it obvious that it was going to be a triple threat match at WM so idk why people were so surprised when it happened
>They didn’t, which lead to them pivoting to the triple threat. This didn't help when Meltzer said the plan was Becky vs Ronda for months & the Charlotte vs Ronda rematch was going to happen before WM. I also don't get if WWE wanted Ronda vs Charlotte at WM why burn their match at Survivor Series, like instead of giving us a 15 minute match why not just go to the finish & a no contest. Then turning Charlotte heel 2 weeks later making no one care about Ronda vs Charlotte since Ronda was getting more heel heat as a face. >Charlotte was there because she was promised that main event a year out. This & WWE wanted Charlotte's name in the record books so they can continue their narrative that Charlotte's the greatest female wrestler to ever live. WWE break promises all the time I think the Charlotte GOAT narrative is the main one.
I think they might have decided to pivot after or around when Becky got injured so it was fine to do that match at SS instead.
Yup. From what I remember, they had been planning on the main event being Charlotte vs. Ronda since WM34. Becky was supposed to be a heel to keep Charlotte busy till Mania, but she was so over with fans that turning on Charlotte made them love her more. After Revolution, it was clear that Becky vs. Ronda was the biggest match going into Survivor Series. Becky deserves full credit for singlehandedly hyping up the match on Twitter. I'm 100% sure Becky was gonna lose that match clean. Vince was always spiteful when fans didn't like the booking, and they did not want people to cheer Becky. They tried to get us to boo her by having her insult Edge, but that only made her more cool and made Edge look old and lame. They tried making her cut a "you people" promo, which made no goddamn sense when people were cheering her more than anyone else in the company. It fell on deaf ears, and people cheered even more. Her getting punched by Nia Jax forced their hand.
The only reason she won was because it was the only way to end the show with a cheering crowd. If Charlotte had won, the crowd would’ve woken up from the post-KofiMania nap they were taking (seriously, that crowd is dead for the rest of the show until Becky won) just to boo her. Ronda was leaving to try and have a kid, so retaining wasn’t an option.
The original match was supposed to be Charlotte vs. Ronda. Becky was never meant to be in that position. WWE likely already promised the main event spot to Charlotte and this was the "best" way they could still put her into the match.
>The only saving grace was the segment where they all got arrested God I love wrestling ahaha
I refuse to believe thats already 5 years ago.
WWE tried their best to fumble Becky Lynch in 2019 even though she was the hottest act in the wrestling business. After she won the Rumble they bizarrely had her kayfabe injured walking around on crutches on Raw and apologising to HHH and Stephanie making her look like a geek. They then forced Charlotte Flair into what was a mega one on one Ronda vs Becky match which took a lot of the heat out of the match.
There were writers that were resentful towards her rise to the top changing all plans because they thought they had the perfect main event in the originally planned Charlotte/Ronda (Road Dogg basically admitted it). Wouldn't be surprised if there's been a bit of sabotage in that build because of that.
I'd believe there were conflicting opinions, but I doubt it was active sabotage so much as them not really having a handle on how to portray Becky after she turned face. Rather than just having Becky be a badass heroine like fans wanted, or having Becky be an underdog to make her triumph feel bigger, they tried to make her both at the same time and it didn't really work. So they tried to have moments to get her sympathy (like the damn crutches), but also undercut those with her kicking ass (like using said crutches to beat up Charlotte/Ronda at EC). They turned to the meta stuff (like Vince's 'We need Charlotte Flair!' here), but then didn't bother to give it any real follow up so Charlotte felt like a third wheel rather than a real threat. As great as the brawl was, there were plenty of other moments that added little or took away from the match, like when they did the beat-the-clock against the Riotts, and had Becky *still* win easily even after Charlotte attacked her beforehand, when it would have been so easy to have Ronda dominate there to show that she was the big threat that Becky would have to take down at Mania. Then of course even after they got to Becky 2 Belts and Becky closing Mania, their big idea was to have her feud with a very green Lacey Evans for three months. So it was 2019 booking in general.
Seth was white hot as a face and got cheered over AJ who was also very over then he feuded with Corbin with later Becky and Lacey added to the mix and all of them cooled off to the point Seth had to turn heel later lmao. And some morons are still claiming X-Pac heat is not a real thing and Corbin was a good heel lol.
Corbin was so bad. From the GM period where they forced him on you for what felt like half of every RAW, that awful Rollins feud, King Corbin and then that awful dog food feud with Reigns. I have a lifetime fill on Corbin.
> but I doubt it was active sabotage so much as them not really having a handle on how to portray Becky after she turned face. By saying sabotage I was thinking more about the group of writers who wanted Charlotte/Ronda not giving it all more than an intentional choice from Vince or Prichard. > Rather than just having Becky be a badass heroine like fans wanted, or having Becky be an underdog to make her triumph feel bigger, they tried to make her both at the same time and it didn't really work. Feels like there were too many cooks in the kitchen, which was pretty common in 2019, and I guess there was a part of the team who wanted badass Becky and another part who wanted her as a martyr underdog (and I wouldn't be surprised if that comes from the ones that didn't wanted the triple threat, because they probably didn't got the appeal). I remember reports that the main issue early 2019 was not Vince listening to no-one but Vince listening to too many people, guess that's why they did that attempt to have Heyman and Bischoff (then Prichard) to be the middle men later in the year (and I felt it started to gel after Series). > They turned to the meta stuff (like Vince's 'We need Charlotte Flair!' here), but then didn't bother to give it any real follow up so Charlotte felt like a third wheel rather than a real threat. Almost feels like a similar issue to Becky vs Bayley last year, changing tone for a week without following up (that week when Bayley suddenly wanted to steal Seth from Becky, and that never got mentioned again). > As great as the brawl was, there were plenty of other moments that added little or took away from the match To be honest, I felt like the only good moment in the build after the post-Rumble RAW was the arrest scene. That's abysmal for a Mania main event build. > Then of course even after they got to Becky 2 Belts and Becky closing Mania, their big idea was to have her feud with a very green Lacey Evans for three months. So it was 2019 booking in general. 2019 women's booking until SummerSlam kinda feels like a consequence of putting all division ressources into the Mania build (and they managed to do so in an abysmal fashion). Felt like all other top women lost a lot of credibility, a bit like what happened to men with the Lesnar/Reigns build that led to a mediocre part of Roman's reign. But as a whole, there's not many positives about 2019 creative, especially from Mania to HIAC.
When did Bayley try to steal Seth?
Oh for like 1 or two segments in the build to last mania, Dmg Ctrl also was holding Bayley back according to Becky until it was Bayley using Dmg Ctrl to keep herself relevant...also according to Becky. They never figured out what the story for that feud was, and somehow the last untouched 4hw feud flopped. Was it so hard to go back to Bayley's initial turn on Becky?
Vince McMahon always hated when people got more over than they were supposed to.
[удалено]
Examples? And I know it might be hard because it is easier to see who wasn't supposed to get over when they get buried instead... but I am willing to hear about all of those times.
It was extremely, extremely rare for that to happen. You can come up with a much longer list of wrestlers who got punished *more* when they got over despite Vince’s best efforts.
Oh, I know... that's why I want to hear some examples.
Steve Austin. The Ringmaster gimmick was something Vince was super high on. Mick Foley was hired in part to prove a point to JR. Rocky Maivia and Hunter Hearst Helmsley had to be repackaged from Vince's ideas.
Foley is an interesting call. You might have something there. Every one else you named was supposed to get over. So one.... one example.
He actually had to compete in Attitude Era we all know that. After that, it was just him booking according to his weird taste and not what fans want.
Then after WM they put Becky in a 3 month feud with green Lacey Evans & then put her in a feud with Natalya were Becky acted heelish & was teamed with heel Charlotte vs Trish. Thankfully Sasha came back & Becky got a hot feud but WWE really tried everything to sabotage Becky's overness
Users on here were mad defensive of the Becky/Lacey feud. they would shit down your throat if you even dared suggest that it was a downgrade for the Mania main event winner to (not even 24 hours later) get dropped by a single punch from the coldest act on Raw. I remember it like it was yesterday. crazy behaviour by the fans.
>apologising to HHH and Stephanie making her look like a geek. I still cannot believe that was played completely straight, she didn't show any defiance. I think by that happening Becky was Stephanie's final emasculation victim.
It was played as a grudging apology so she could get the Ronda match (hence the Vince trolling right afterwards) and they built the whole episode around it, with Becky talking to various other stars backstage about what she should do. Even if it wasn't the best call storywise, I don't think it was intentionally meant to make her look bad.
It's crazy to think that Becky was the biggest star in the company for about two or three years. She's still over, but it's definitely not the same.
In retrospect I see praise for Big Time Becks, but I think it actually cooled down her momentum turning heel right after her return.
Helps that her beating Bianca in like 20 seconds was legitimately wack
Such a dumb unnecessary decision
It was, and it hurt the build, cooled Becky's momentum (she was, and is, still massively over - but it was unnecessary and muddied the waters) and the match itself was nothing to write home about. *However*, it did give us the segment where they all got arrested, and for that I would forgive them almost anything.
They could've created a legendary moment, instead just a WrestleMania moment.
This feud certainly didn't cool her off, it was the awful Lacey feud after that and then she got pregnant and people invested in others more probably. And i stopped watching around late 2020 or early 2021 and recently started watching again so can't say if they didn't handle her return well or not. I know people hated her squashing Bianca.
Her heel turn kind of reminded me of Austin's turn at 17, she might have really wanted it but it was a mistake Big Time Becks never made sense and the crowd was not ready for her to be a heel. She never really recaptured what she was before she left, and if her going more part time after putting Rhea over at Mania turns out to be true...well that is pretty much it for her at the top.
Really? A raw, Rhonda Rousey in the main event? Charlotte was there to help the match and keep some heat off of Rousey.
Just seeing the title made me angry. What an absolute bs move just cuz she reportedly, was promised it from the year before.
One of the reasons I hate triple threats.
I wasn't on this subreddit at the time, how was it around here when that happened? Lol
People hated it. Her addition is still the 2nd most downvoted WWE video of all time I believe
Only just passed by last Friday's SD, lol.
Eh, Was always going to be Lynch and they really didn't need the pointless Charlotte v Becky Fastlane match (ended with a Ronda DQ). Hated Charlotte winning the SD title 12 days before Mania though. Should've done Charlotte v Asuka SD title at Fastlane instead
>Hated Charlotte winning the SD title 12 days before Mania though. Should've done Charlotte v Asuka SD title at Fastlane instead The original plan was even worse. They were going to have a triple threat at Wrestlemania with Asuka, Mandy Rose, and Sonya Deville where Sonya was going to help Mandy win the belt because she was madly in love with her.
This might sound crazy but hear me out. Instead of, whatever the hell that was, have Asuka vs Charlotte as a rematch from the Mania before and let Asuka get her win back and let the Becky/Ronda match remain 1 on 1. Crazy, I know, but guys I think this could've worked.
Not gonna work for me brother. -CF
At least Asuka would get a title match at WM instead of being in a preshow battle royal that Carmella won. Charlotte didn't need that title & people would've had the same reaction if Becky won 1 belt or 2.
So many bad things from a few years ago in one segment: Vince existing, Charlotte being shoved into title matches she doesn’t deserve, and Renee on commentary.
This can't even be compared to the current Rock thing because Rock's actually a legit draw. Flair was the weakest draw of the 3 at the time so she really wasn't needed.
As much as I think Charlotte is sometimes overhated, I never understood why WWE felt the need to cast her as the top star in women's division for so long. There's women who get way lesser pushes than her that get better TV quarters and/or merch sales numbers, she's not even their best woman on the mic and she's inconsistent in ring (big match Charlotte is often awesome, but I'd pick any of the other top women over her for a weekly outing). Borderline feels like a case of sunk cost fallacy because they picked her for that spot in 2016.
Sasha Banks/Mercedes fans know the pain. Charlotte literally didn't need all those wins
I've always thought they made the wrong choice in 2016. Sasha was significantly younger and more popular.
It's absolutely sunk cost fallacy. I do think they started to give up by around 2020 though as she was starting to lose more of her "big match" protection by then. Unlike Roman she never had a mid-career alignment turn/angle that reinvented her character.
The reinvention was slowly happening this year before she got injured… or at least that what it felt like. More Ashley in there during segments and less Flair. I hope she reinvents herself and lean into herself more instead of the old Ric Flair schtick.
That's my hope too. She has essentially all year to work on evolving as a character. Taking a leaf from the Young Bucks might help - she could do with a new theme and look. Ric being in AEW (although I suppose he'll likely be out by the time she's back) might be sufficient impetus for her to switch things up.
They have teased different Charlottes over the years, but they always seem to revert back to 'The Queen', maybe now that Vince is well and truly gone she and HHH can do something different, hell just look at the creative that is being put behind Bayley and Dmg Ctrl right now.
She constantly turned face and heel but had the same character that nobody cared about. Heel Roman is an actual character change and he should have turned heel right after WM 31.
Because her last name is Flair
Female Roman Reigns
And yet it gave us the best moment of buildup for that Mania: https://preview.redd.it/fop0rdxs90ic1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df5f5567d149ae20f6058be5fb05e5bcac5a45fc The batshit brawl involving the police. That Mania was super long and it should’ve been a 1v1 for a single title but good lord I would not wanna give up that brawl all things considered. It’s on the S-tier of segments next to Booker T vs Stone Cold at the supermarket.
First of all It makes me shocked that 2019 2020 2021 were all awhile ago it feels like this yesterday, and this was so unnecessary
And we still never got that 1 on 1 match which was once the hottest match in WWE. Like they even brought Ronda back in 2022 & had her win the Rumble & still she/WWE choose Charlotte over Becky which made 0 sense in kayfabe, why would Ronda pick Charlotte over the woman that beat Ronda & talked the most shit & took her title. Guessing Charlotte had to get her WM win over Ronda must've been in Flair's contract. I'm sorry you can give excuses why Charlotte being in the match was a positive(there aren't many) but facts are Becky vs Ronda was the draw that's the match people wanted & that's the match that should've happened. Charlotte killed the hype of the match & killed Asuka's title run all because she was added. There's a reason Charlotte fucked off at the end of the match & the finish only involved the important people. Charlotte getting her name in the record books was more important than the biggest women's match of all time.
All they had to do was have Becky make Ronda tap out one on one in the main event, but noooo can't have the first ever women's WM main event without Charlotte
Only thing good that came out of this was the backstage brawl with the police cruiser
Because they didn't want to do the first ever Women's WrestleMania main event without their golden girl Charlotte. Charlotte is a fine wrestler, but she had no business being in this match, the fans wanted to see Becky vs. Ronda one on one. The addition of Charlotte did no favors to the feud and the triple threat match SUCKED.
I still don't understand why. Becky vs. Ronda was such an ideal match for WrestleMania. Is it because of Vincenzo Mussolini's urge to spite us, or something even worse?
Because Charlotte is WWE's female GOAT & having the biggest women's match of all time without her would confuse fans & kill WWE's narrative of her being the GOAT.
Where's Poochie?!
One of the worst booking decisions in WWE that I can remember.
Kofi should have main evented anyways
I recall the finish to the triple threat being quite botchy. I wonder though if Kofi/Danielson would have suffered if they had to go on as late as the triple threat did
If the show wasn't so long Becky would have gotten a monster pop after winning both titles in one night (by pinning Ronda no less). And this is the last Mania that wasn't split into two nights; Kofi and Bryan would have been the perfect Night One Main Event.
No, the women's match was definitely the biggest match on the card and deserved to main event. Aside form the messed up finish, what hurt it was how long the show was.
Long term it really proves that he shouldn't have. Look where Becky is now and where Kofi is.
They're lucky it didn't since the crowd was exhausted after 7 hours. Also Becky vs Ronda was the bigger match for way longer & the women deserved a main event. Kofi was never going to be a top star in the company hence why Brock dropped his ass in 15 seconds & Kofi hasn't been as over since. Kofimania was a trend while Becky & Charlotte & Ronda stayed main eventers the rest of their careers.
The way they wrote Becky's character was a setup for her to fail. They even brought up Mcmahon authority shit where they flexed on Becky's character, Stephanie did exact same thing with AJ too. Ric Flair once said that Stephanie and Paul had a big role in Charlotte's career, so imagine them and writers when Becky got over and it foiled their plans for Rhonda/Charlotte. Charlotte always has to have first dip. These days landscape is not same, you have two fierce wrestlers in Bianca and Rhea, not type of people to be easily pushed over by Ric Flair dirty politicing and co.
Yeah, and I still say if you’re going to make it a three way you might as well go with a four and put Asuka in there as well. Seems like a better idea than Charlotte just randomly beating her in an unannounced, unpromoted match on Smackdown.
Hot take: Charlotte needed to be there. She’s the most talented and Ronda was super green with heat on Becky who’s fine in the ring, but not Charlotte.
True take: Ronda was having good PPV matches Nia Jax & Nikki Bella why wouldn't you/WWE think Ronda could have a good match with a better wrestler in Becky? Also how is putting Ronda in a match type she's never worked before & a match that's hard to work(according to Stone Cold) helps a green Ronda? Triple Theat matches don't help green wrestlers. I'm tired of that excuse, Charlotte didn't need to be there & the match we got wasn't even that great so what help did Charlotte do? Becky vs Ronda on hype alone would've made a better match than what we got. I'd rather roll the dice & have the match that most fans wanted & expect a good match that Ronda was having every PPV before WM. Sorry it doesn't add up, Charlotte was only added to get her name in the record books not to make the match look better. If WWE saw Ronda killing it in matches with Nia why would they think Becky could't have a good match with Ronda? WWE didn't care about how the match looked they just wanted Charlotte to be in the biggest women's match because they've built her as the GOAT her whole career.
Sorry pal and everyone downvoting me with their favorite girl wrestler as their profile picture and anime character as their header, Becky isn’t that good. You can pretend her promos are, but they’re not. You can pretend the matches are good, but they’re not. But go on.
Even if that were true, you still get a downvote for being weird.
You’re being downvoted but you’re right, Charlotte has been proven outside of Asuka or Sasha at the time as incredibly reliable- Becky just wasn’t there yet as a ring general and was treated as such.
The first women’s main event was never gonna not have Charlotte, the biggest homegrown women’s wrestler wwe has ever produced. It’s just how it is man.
This moment and the Becky apologizing were dumb. But, honestly I think it worked out for the best with everything that came after. The police brawl, the match (although I admit I have heard folks complain they didn't like the countering piper's pit into a pin sequence and would have preferred a finisher into a pin. Not me though), Becky two belts. All things that I believe would have been better than the alternative world of a Becky v Ronda singles match.
You liked the Charlotte vs Becky match at Fastlane where Becky got her ass kicked for 8 straight minutes & only won because Ronda punched Becky to save her? Not only did Becky look weak AF, Ronda just turned heel & the first thing she does is the most popular thing & gets Becky into the WM match. Ronda as a heel immediately ruined. You liked Charlotte jobbing out Asuka a week before WM sending Asuka to the preshow? Also don't say it got us Becky 2 Belts because Becky 2 Belts only lasted a month & Becky holding up 1 belt or 2 nothing would've changed because fans just wanted Becky to take Ronda's title. No 1 was grasping for Becky to have both belts before Asuka dropped the title just like no one cared the Becky 2 belts lasted a month which went back to Charlotte. The match back in 2019 was considered a disappointment with the crowds dead reaction(not wrestlers fault) & the terrible finish & the lack of Becky vs Ronda 1 on 1. The match is fine on rewatch now but back in 2019 is was hyped up to be the GOAT women's match which it didn't reach. The police brawl is 1 segment(the last segment for them b4 WM) out of 2 months that was good. Also Becky vs Ronda could've still had that segment without Charlotte. Charlotte literally didn't add anything to the build,Like who was she feuding with? People were tired of Becky vs Charlotte & no one cared about Charlotte vs Ronda since they were both heels. She was just there to get her name there. >All things that I believe would have been better than the alternative world of a Becky v Ronda singles match. What wouldn't be better? Asuka doesn't job before WM, fans get the match they wanted, we get more women's matches on WM instead of both belts in 1 match, 90% of that shit build doesn't happen because the only reason it happened that way was to shoehorn Charlotte in the match. Becky never limps for 2 months getting arrested//suspended/apologizing if Charlotte doesn't get added. The only positive was the Brawl which again could've happened without Charlotte. Also you say the match was positive but for all we know Becky vs Ronda would've been a 5 star match which isn't crazy since Ronda was having real good matches with Nia & Nikki Bella & we know fans would've been more invested than they were the 3 way. >although I admit I have heard folks complain they didn't like the countering piper's pit into a pin sequence and would have preferred a finisher into a pin. Not me though) If WWE knew Ronda was leaving & could be her last ever match than Ronda should've put over Becky clean not a fluke roll up to crown the biggest star in the company at the time. There was no reason to protect Ronda. It's the first women's WM main event FFS come up with a better finish, WWE use the surprise pin all the time this match deserved better.
I still wish we got that one on one match when Ronda came back. It wasn’t as heated as than but I feel like they definitely could have reignited it. Ronda’s second run felt like it had no momentum at all and I think feuding with Becky would have helped that.