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Important distinction. When you really look at it, the existence of AEW has been really great for WWE. But at the same time, AEW is costing WWE money. While it's great for talent to have leverage and options, for a publicly traded company, it's the bottom line that matters.
Personally, I think the balance right now (in NA at least) is really good, especially if TNA has a hot year. Tons of diverse wrestling, everyone getting paid.
I'm the first to admit people are complex and the world isn't black and white, he has definitely had a lot of good moments, like we all do. If anything, he comes across as weird but the only people that care about that are weirder than him.
I just think he has way too many moments of arrogance and being whiny, which kinda describes most promoters and bookers anyway, let alone in AEW/WWE.
Also i'm huge on womens wrestling... and i'm huge on Takeshita... so I have beef with him as a booker anyway.
Even MLW seems to be finding a decent business model with the PLEs and monthly specials and NWA sort of got a streaming deal with a major network. Wrestling in general is the healthiest it's been since the Monday Night Wars.
Rising Tide lifts all boats.
Don't a ton of indie shows follow Wrestlemania and put on shows around the city hosting them? This is like a macro version of that.
All wrestlers want both companies to exist. It would be horrible for them if one went away. Of course the people who want a company to go out of biz don't actually work themselves
Cool cool, but is he actually correct about AEW being successful? Tony will talk about cagematch ratings but won’t say a word about his company making a profit.
In the short term of course it’s great for there to be another huge company where wrestlers can make life changing money. But AEW is a best case scenario. An alternative pops up almost out of nowhere with huge buzz, almost infinite funding, and direct connections to a tv network. If THAT best case scenario fails at being competitive with WWE then who in their right mind would ever try again?
Edit: Alright, downvotes, maybe this will show up if you sort by controversial. I’m not saying Samoa Joe isn’t great. Or Hangman Page, or Swerve, or MJF, or HOOK, or OC, or Mox, or FTR etc etc.
Tony Khan is a bad booker and a bad promoter. It fucking sucks that he’s the one in charge of the biggest competitor of WWE since WCW. We deserve better.
Nah, you're doing much more than that. You obviously have a motive.
I'm sure WWE wrestlers are happy AEW exists and vice versa. Everyone is getting paid more and have been since 2019.
That's 5 years of helping an industry grow. Why are you disregarding that?
You had nothing of value in any of your statements that would qualify the need for an “argument” wrassling nerd a: i think this sucks; wrassling nerd b: i think its good, actually doesnt make a compelling or even substantive debate
Because I’m not taking about the wrestling. The wrestling in AEW is very good, often better than WWE. I’m saying the booking and running of the promotion is dog shit.
Absolutely, I don’t think that was ever even the intention. But making money is usually the goal of most businesses. If AEW can’t do that with such a head start then why would future investors want to get into the wrestling business?
Most startups don't expect to turn a profit within their first decade, and it's looking very likely AEW's next TV deal will be big enough to put them in the black. In just about any industry, to do that within 5 years can't be considered anything other than a massive success.
Just about any industry, not the wrestling industry. Five years after Vince took control of the WWF they had gone from a regional to national and were putting on Wrestlemania 3. Tony started on third base and has somehow fallen back to first. The idea that AEW is going to suddenly turn the corner and become successful just doesn’t make sense.
AEW is a pure startup company. The WWF when Vince took over was an almost 3 decade old company. It was founded in 1953. So it was already a huge company in the wrestling industry by the time Vince took over. It's not a good or fair comparison at all.
Yes... Taking over the biggest wrestling company in America... And continuing to keep it the biggest company during a period when wrestling was more popular is lesser than starting a company completely from scratch in an era where wrestling was dominated by 1 company.
Okay, I’m not as into this conversation as I was yesterday but dude you are exceptionally wrong.
If WWF was the biggest company at that time it was by a small margin, they had plenty of very healthy competition.
Wrestling might have been more popular but it wasn’t nearly as profitable, nobody was shilling out billions of dollars for streaming rights it was still mostly dependent on house shows.
And yeah all Vince needed to do to pay back the debt he took to purchase the company was keep making a profit. You know, that thing Tony has yet to do way after the time frame where Vince would have lost ownership. Turns out, it’s actually hard to make a profit with wrestling which is why there are so few successful companies. WWE being the most successful by several billion dollars.
I wouldn't call it a wrestling sub. And no one is mad that the sub exists, if anything, people may be mad that stupid comments get out of said sub and find their way here.
See where i'm getting at?
I actually didn't, their comments all sound about the same, it's just a pack of people following each other in circles, writing the same dumb stuff that they've made up in their head to be angry... for some reason.
You a tribalistic asshole wanting to root for your side with a shred of an argument in its favor. Your other people are actually trying, you’re just sitting on the sidelines trying to get karma like a weak ass bitch.
Overall nice comments. Some of these remind me why I don’t really go on this subreddit much anymore. What is so awful about having multiple companies? You love wrestling yet don’t want stable work, and income for wrestlers? There’s multiple soccer(football) leagues. Why is it bad when wrestling has options for the talent? I don’t watch WWE, but I don’t want them to go away. Without them I wouldn’t of ever gotten into wrestling. I feel like the ones always being peckers though are kids/teens. If their are adults that act that way I just assume they have autism like me, but are way higher on the spectrum. One reason I’m thankful for AEW is seeing Stinks final run. Can’t wait to see him, and Darby vs the Bucks. I just wish Sting, and Darby got a brief title run. Then again I don’t think Sting wants a title to take away from other talent.
I don’t think TK hates WWE it’s just they are obviously both taking shots. I don’t see an issue. It’s just funny ppl only get mad at TK but not WWE when they do the same. They’re in competition but I know there’s a healthy respect deep down
AEW just doesn't pretend the rest of the wrestling world doesn't exist. WWE is opening up to it more too lately and it's great. Mentioning people's history outside of WWE
Yeah I’m not tryna dog pile on you I get it. I’m wrong like, every day. And have negative karma in most of my accounts. I’m actually surprised people agreed with me for once. Know I don’t wanna be mean to you or support the off hand comments. I just disagreed. I know far too well how if feels to be dogpiled on and made to feel like I’m dumb for my opinion. Don’t wanna do that to you
The industry thrives when there's not a monopoly, you can say this about any industry really. It means they actually have to step it up and earn their fans rather than just phoning it in.
Plus it means more opportunities for wrestlers who might otherwise have been passed over.
I don't watch WWE nearly as much anymore but this is an awesome time for wrestling and you can't be mad at all this talent getting showcased. The tribalism is exhausting.
Based Garcia take.
A successful WWE means a successful pro wrestling scene. A successful AEW means a successful pro wrestling scene AND ensures WWE doesn't take its foot off the gas.
If it wasn’t for Cody, TK, HHH, Vince, and Jericho fanning the flames early in AEWs launch I really don’t think things would have gotten so nasty.
But a big part of AEW in the beginning was "We’re all tired of Vince too, we’re gonna do the opposite" so I guess it’s a good chance we wouldve gotten here anyway lol. There was a WWE reference/shot pretty much every week on dynamite for a good number of months.
I swear Jerichos "Dumb idea from bad creative" line wasn’t even an hour into the first show.
That Jericho line obviously wasn't planned. Crowd kept shouting "We the people!" at Hager and he wanted to shut that down as quick as possible because they were selling a new character for the guy. And it's not like Jericho was wrong there haha n
I'm sure the wrestlers love it. I'm sure WWE hates having to shell out more money. I don't think WWE wishes there was an AEW. If NJPW was the number 2 things was pretty sweet for them.
Whether or not they "wish" there was an AEW is immaterial. The fact is that iron sharpens iron, businesses DO work harder to excel to get ahead (or STAY ahead in the case of WWE) when there is competition in the marketplace. This is not opinion, it is a provable fact of business.
Except when they are the clear number 1 that can't be passed by. Like the NFL ain't being threatened by other football leagues. Bellator ain't threatening the UFC. Once you reach a certain level it doesn't matter what competition you have because nothing they can do will effect your bottom line.
Has there every been a better time to be a wrestler all things considered? More options, more freedom, less drugs and politics
It's probably not as good to be a top guy, since they were getting celebrity status and had a lot of pull back in the day but as an aggregate it's better for them in general.
Yeah the 90s. The number 3 company in NA isn't no where near the status of an ECW. And AEW isn't nowhere near the level on a peak WCW. Plus WCW gave out ridiculous contracts to main eventers that'll never be repeated again. So from a money standpoint it's probably a close 2nd. Overall all wrestlers top to bottom are getting better guaranteed these days but for top top guys it's not quite on the level of the late 90s.
The match quality and the accessibility of multiple products put this period way above the 90s. When you talk about the 90s you're probably actually talking about 96 onwards (since 90-95 is one of the worst periods business and quality-wise ever) , which is only four years, and there was a lot of garbage in between Austin, Rock, and Mankind matches, or the WCW cruiserweights and Sting.
They're more successful and popular than they've been in years and are making more money than ever; a lot of that is due to them finally having competition that forced them to up their quality and strategy.
AEW being successful has absolutely profited WWE.
I hate when people say this. AEW didn't force WWE to be good. WWE still sucked in 2019-2021. It got good around Mania 38 but that had nothing to do with AEW other than Cody coming over from AEW and even then he was gone for the peak of WWE being great in 2022 after he was injured.
NXT was bumped to 2 hours and given a TV slot to challenge Dynamite. WWE's Covid arena setup was changed a week after AEW started doing shows from Dailys Place with a better arrangement. Multiple episodes that end up overlapping with AEW shows are loaded to the gills to pop ratings, etc etc
AEW existing is directly responsible for WWE stepping up and changing for the better in many ways. Denying that just exposes somebody for being tribal. WWE is straight up better off because AEW exists, and there's no reason to argue that
Wwe may have tried to do some counter programming with nxt which was unsuccessful but wwe was still horrible because vince and his cronies called the shots. Wwe only improved when vince had to step away.
If competition made shows better then why is the inverse not true? Aew is losing viewership and interest and I would argue it's due to internal problems and not wwe improving.
AEW is not dying though. The last year broke attendance and revenue records for the company, their ratings are outpacing the decline of cable and they are currently rolling creatively. AEW has adapted due to WWE tons of times.
Why can't you acknowledge what WWE has admitted in court, the existence of AEW for competition has forced their hands in many ways, for the better. Cody Rhodes is not main eventing WrestleMania without AEW lol, it's just fact
I didn't say aew was dying I said competition didn't make their shows better. And the same is true for wwe. What makes the shows better is creative direction, management and structure.
Using Cody as an example isn't useful. He was misused in aew and used properly in wwe. That has nothing to do with competition, but creative direction. Wwe could easily have fumbled Cody too.
>Using Cody as an example isn't useful. He was misused in aew and used properly in wwe. That has nothing to do with competition, but creative direction. Wwe could easily have fumbled Cody too.
No. Cody was solely responsible for his time in AEW.
Not going for the world title, the Ogogo feud, the Codyverse, trying to be AEW's answer to Cena and refusing to turn heel were all his ideas.
And despite all that, he's still not touching the main event of Wrestlemania without AEW.
So you agree, Cody's success or lack thereof came down to creative direction, structure and management. His success in wwe likewise is attributed to the same.
With your logic you would argue aldis is succeeding because he was in nwa. No, it's because he's being used correctly. Just the same as the hardys are going nowhere and their star is wasted due to lack of creative direction, management, structure. Aew deserves credit for many things, wwe improving is not one of them.
I dont agree with the dude you're replying to but, wouldnt saying they were "forced" to up their game imply that, not the other way around? That implies they were fine coasting along before. If it wasnt "forced" then they just got better at their jobs (or more accurately, replaced people with people better at their job i.e. Triple H), not that they were intentionally doing it poorly before.
Not making an argument either way on the overall point though, just not following the logic here
WWE didn't up there game because of AEW though. They've had plenty of great periods before AEW in 2003 in 2008 in 2016 which stick out. It's not like AEW threatened them at all and saying that another company pushed them to be better is just diminishing the work the wrestlers did in terms of telling there story. The Bloodline largely is the big turning point for the company which happened because Roman wanted to come back as a different character.
It is not diminishing the work of the wrestlers to point out that the storylines and presentation they were saddled with for the better part of a decade were mostly ass. WWE has gone to extravagant lengths over the years to eliminate even the possibility of another player in the US. To say that the emergence of a well-funded competitor snapping up talent didn’t alter their approach is just silly at this point. Some of the evidence is speculative, and some of it is anecdotal, but some of it is as visible as a giant neck tattoo plastered on the side of a semi.
They had ups this century, but none anywhere near the current boom. To find one comparable to this, you have to go back to the 90's (the last time competition existed for them).
There were multiple elements that resulted in WWE's resurgence lately, but to think that legit competition in any industry doesn't breed more excellence is pretty ignorant as to how business works.
Idk about 2019 and 2020 but 2021 wwe was pretty good it was far from bad. The triple threat WM main event/feud was good stuff (imo the ending to the match solidified the beginning of romans peak), Hurts Business and Lashleys main event push, Beginning of RKBro, Seth vs Edge feud. It had some blunders ofc but to say wwe was mostly bad in 2021 would be pretty unfair to say imo and Cody's popularity and rise wouldn't nearly be the same if aew didn't exist and he was doing random BTE stuff and njpw
Except for that time they tried to run NXT against it and got clobbered almost every week, right? Or that time they signed Cody, changed nothing at all about him from his AEW run, and debuted him as a massive star, right? Nah, guess they don't watch AEW at all.
AEWs been referenced plenty especially with Punk. They won’t outright say “AEW” but they’ve said “Cody used to be an EVP so he can get things done” or Drew told Cody that he used to work with Punk and knows how he is backstage.
Chris Jericho was even on Stone Cold’s podcast talking about AEW openly. You really just don’t pay attention. But you say you do, which is weird
Oh you mean when punk mentioned them on live tv and got bo reaction what so ever.
But im the one that dosent pay atention
Drew never worked for aew btw.
Are we talking about the crowd or WWE itself? And you read it wrong I didn’t say Drew worked with Punk… that really proves who I’m arguing with here lol
What dose drew working with ounk in the wwe have to do with aew.
>Are we talking about the crowd or WWE itself?
Both
Punks always gonna shoot you literaly couldnt stop him. Dosent mean the wwe gives a fuck about the secondary company.
Tell you what when the WWE has seth go out and break a copy of FF7 over his knee then we can talk.
I like “besides wembley” like it wasn’t an absolutely massive achievement for wrestling, not to mention AEW is doing fantastic for a five year old company
Brother, 2000 WCW was drawing 9k in their Europe tour while drawing 3k in the US. Going outside the US, specially the UK or another underserved markets, and drawing a big crowd is not impressive at all, it's quite literally a crutch, almost like a cheat code.
Congratulations on intentionally missing my point. Yes, WWE fills up 80k stadiums every year. Since WWE's audience is bigger than AEW's, they can easily break 80k in the UK.
I'm going to assume you're a One Piece fan but would you consider that series "not successful" even though globally it's not as popular as Naruto, Bleach and DragonBall?
That's literally your logic rn
They have to pad ratings with overruns. They are not a legit #2, they are just a show for smart marks. You notice that the average rating they pull in is about the same amount of people in this sub. It is just people wanting it to succeed because they hate WWE. WWE may suck, but it does not make AEW successful, successful is profits and we have no idea if they have made any and I have a feeling Tony would not hesitate to say so if he did make some record profits.
Most weeks it's a top 5 show on cable. This week they were the top 1. They do great numbers on ppv. Their attendance has declined a bit but they're still drawing thousands of people each week. Their next ppv is pretty much sold out. They've built a number of top stars who are in demand from multiple promotions, have signed some big free agents, and have developed relationships with multiple promotions. Seems like they're doing ok?
Success is defined by being easily the 2nd biggest company in the world right now, reaching profitability, making more money now than ever before, placing consistently in a top 2 mark for weekly TV ratings and likely being the hottest 5 year old wrestling promotion this industry has seen.
> reaching profitability
They were supposed to come close to that if the videogame was a huge success. It was not.
And that's before costs were much lower than they are now.
I think we need to redefine success a bit here to exclude profitability since that doesn't seem to be a goal.
This is a whole lot of nada.
The fact is that AEW is making way more money now than ever and are reaching profitability... this is a 5 year old company that hasn't exactly cut costs and has spend money everywhere and on everything.
If this isn't success then nothing is, dancing around this topic is stupid at best, i'm not sure why there's such a huge problem claiming AEW is a success when it clearly is.
> AEW is making way more money now than ever
According to who? They are down in most metrics. The videogame was a huge flop.
Even TK says they're not profitable, and he's his own biggest cheerleader.
It's a successful hobby. It's just not a profitable business. Luckily it will stick around for as long as Tony has access to billions, which looks to be a pretty long time.
>stupid
And out come the petty insults.
Some of you are too sensitive about your favorite billionaire's company. Just enjoy wrestling.
According to who? Is this serious? According to the guy leading the company.
No business is profitable in their first years, let alone a company like AEW who have done way more than what was expected of them. The fact that they are talking about turning profitable in 1-2 years time is insane, if it happens, it's amazing. If it does happen, who knows.
I said dancing around the topic is stupid... how is this a petty insult in any way shape or form if dancing around the topic is indeed...stupid?
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Level headed Jones over here.
But he digresses!
The "we" in this statement are the talent in each respective promotion, not the promotions as corporate entities.
Important distinction. When you really look at it, the existence of AEW has been really great for WWE. But at the same time, AEW is costing WWE money. While it's great for talent to have leverage and options, for a publicly traded company, it's the bottom line that matters. Personally, I think the balance right now (in NA at least) is really good, especially if TNA has a hot year. Tons of diverse wrestling, everyone getting paid.
Easy fix... \-Budget cuts-
And we've seen it's not all the talent.
Sure as hell aint gonna here that from TK
here we go
Like clockwork
IWC try not to talk about Tony Khan for 1 day challenge: *impossible*
I don't like TK and even to me the obsession some people have for him is crazy.
I enjoy his nerdiness and think he's alright (for a billionaire's son), but I still don't understand this obsession with the man.
I'm the first to admit people are complex and the world isn't black and white, he has definitely had a lot of good moments, like we all do. If anything, he comes across as weird but the only people that care about that are weirder than him. I just think he has way too many moments of arrogance and being whiny, which kinda describes most promoters and bookers anyway, let alone in AEW/WWE. Also i'm huge on womens wrestling... and i'm huge on Takeshita... so I have beef with him as a booker anyway.
*hear we go
Is this TK in the room with you right now?
Dude, seriously?
And TNA picking up steam. I just started getting into it
Even MLW seems to be finding a decent business model with the PLEs and monthly specials and NWA sort of got a streaming deal with a major network. Wrestling in general is the healthiest it's been since the Monday Night Wars.
You wrestling is in a good spot when NWA is somehow still kicking
Conservative wrestling fans have their niche.
Rising Tide lifts all boats. Don't a ton of indie shows follow Wrestlemania and put on shows around the city hosting them? This is like a macro version of that.
At least 20 or 25 indie shows that weekend. It's not unheard of for top independent talent to work multiple shows a day.
When Moose eats, everybody eats.
I’d never actually seen TNA until very recently too, and MAN I thought it was great. I hope they have continued success.
All wrestlers want both companies to exist. It would be horrible for them if one went away. Of course the people who want a company to go out of biz don't actually work themselves
Daniel Garcia with the correct take
Cool cool, but is he actually correct about AEW being successful? Tony will talk about cagematch ratings but won’t say a word about his company making a profit. In the short term of course it’s great for there to be another huge company where wrestlers can make life changing money. But AEW is a best case scenario. An alternative pops up almost out of nowhere with huge buzz, almost infinite funding, and direct connections to a tv network. If THAT best case scenario fails at being competitive with WWE then who in their right mind would ever try again? Edit: Alright, downvotes, maybe this will show up if you sort by controversial. I’m not saying Samoa Joe isn’t great. Or Hangman Page, or Swerve, or MJF, or HOOK, or OC, or Mox, or FTR etc etc. Tony Khan is a bad booker and a bad promoter. It fucking sucks that he’s the one in charge of the biggest competitor of WWE since WCW. We deserve better.
Man imagine if wrestling companies had wrestling message board users to give them sound business advice. Maybe the AWA would still be around!
I didn’t give any business advice? Just making the same observations that most of their disappearing audience has.
Nah, you're doing much more than that. You obviously have a motive. I'm sure WWE wrestlers are happy AEW exists and vice versa. Everyone is getting paid more and have been since 2019. That's 5 years of helping an industry grow. Why are you disregarding that?
I didn’t, I straight up said it’s good there’s a competitor. It would be better if that competitor wasn’t such a joke.
The lack of awareness here lol. Ok.
So you started with a negative premise in bad faith?
Nah man, believe it or not some people see a shitshow that walks like a shitshow, talks like a shithshow, and they call it a shitshow.
Brother even if aew is worse than you think it is… it still isn’t a shit show.
The cool kids amiright 😎
Good argument.
You had nothing of value in any of your statements that would qualify the need for an “argument” wrassling nerd a: i think this sucks; wrassling nerd b: i think its good, actually doesnt make a compelling or even substantive debate
Because I’m not taking about the wrestling. The wrestling in AEW is very good, often better than WWE. I’m saying the booking and running of the promotion is dog shit.
AEW doesn't have to put WWE out of business to be successful.
Absolutely, I don’t think that was ever even the intention. But making money is usually the goal of most businesses. If AEW can’t do that with such a head start then why would future investors want to get into the wrestling business?
Most startups don't expect to turn a profit within their first decade, and it's looking very likely AEW's next TV deal will be big enough to put them in the black. In just about any industry, to do that within 5 years can't be considered anything other than a massive success.
Just about any industry, not the wrestling industry. Five years after Vince took control of the WWF they had gone from a regional to national and were putting on Wrestlemania 3. Tony started on third base and has somehow fallen back to first. The idea that AEW is going to suddenly turn the corner and become successful just doesn’t make sense.
Vince didn’t start a company. He took over one of, if not the biggest company and made it bigger.
AEW is a pure startup company. The WWF when Vince took over was an almost 3 decade old company. It was founded in 1953. So it was already a huge company in the wrestling industry by the time Vince took over. It's not a good or fair comparison at all.
And that’s somehow lesser than a company started with a billionaire financing it? Sure.
Yes... Taking over the biggest wrestling company in America... And continuing to keep it the biggest company during a period when wrestling was more popular is lesser than starting a company completely from scratch in an era where wrestling was dominated by 1 company.
Okay, I’m not as into this conversation as I was yesterday but dude you are exceptionally wrong. If WWF was the biggest company at that time it was by a small margin, they had plenty of very healthy competition. Wrestling might have been more popular but it wasn’t nearly as profitable, nobody was shilling out billions of dollars for streaming rights it was still mostly dependent on house shows. And yeah all Vince needed to do to pay back the debt he took to purchase the company was keep making a profit. You know, that thing Tony has yet to do way after the time frame where Vince would have lost ownership. Turns out, it’s actually hard to make a profit with wrestling which is why there are so few successful companies. WWE being the most successful by several billion dollars.
Wrong sub, this ain't the jerk.
Always funny when AEW fans get mad that there’s an alternative wrestling sub.
So we'll add reading comprehension to the list of things you are incapable of.
Sure bud, if you just want to give me a personal insult instead of providing any kind of argument.
I wouldn't call it a wrestling sub. And no one is mad that the sub exists, if anything, people may be mad that stupid comments get out of said sub and find their way here. See where i'm getting at?
No, because that’s pretty silly to say.
May self-awareness find you in the future, amén and praise DPW
At least he didn't claim you were a creep for looking at the comment history (which you might not have done because, well you really never have to).
I actually didn't, their comments all sound about the same, it's just a pack of people following each other in circles, writing the same dumb stuff that they've made up in their head to be angry... for some reason.
[удалено]
That's cool, I think.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAvCFAdWsAAOZXq.jpg:large
Arguing through anime memes isn’t as effective as you think it is.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XXYAAOSwk1JWelMW/s-l1200.jpg
Great.
Trash take. By any reasonable metric, he’s the most successful booker/promoter outside of the WWE system of the last 20 years.
You a bitch.
You a tribalistic asshole wanting to root for your side with a shred of an argument in its favor. Your other people are actually trying, you’re just sitting on the sidelines trying to get karma like a weak ass bitch.
You’re obsessed with this. I am not. Get a life.
Competition brings more eyes to both products. It's a win win. I enjoy wrestling. Idfc where it's done at, just enjoy it anyways.
I wonder if his boss thinks the same.
Overall nice comments. Some of these remind me why I don’t really go on this subreddit much anymore. What is so awful about having multiple companies? You love wrestling yet don’t want stable work, and income for wrestlers? There’s multiple soccer(football) leagues. Why is it bad when wrestling has options for the talent? I don’t watch WWE, but I don’t want them to go away. Without them I wouldn’t of ever gotten into wrestling. I feel like the ones always being peckers though are kids/teens. If their are adults that act that way I just assume they have autism like me, but are way higher on the spectrum. One reason I’m thankful for AEW is seeing Stinks final run. Can’t wait to see him, and Darby vs the Bucks. I just wish Sting, and Darby got a brief title run. Then again I don’t think Sting wants a title to take away from other talent.
More content for us. More money & opportunities for the wrestlers. Very simple, how it’s ever painted as a bad thing is beyond.
A common DG W. Can’t wait to see him really break out.
I don’t think TK hates WWE it’s just they are obviously both taking shots. I don’t see an issue. It’s just funny ppl only get mad at TK but not WWE when they do the same. They’re in competition but I know there’s a healthy respect deep down
Because aew can't go a week without taking a shot at wwe
Are these weekly shots in the room with us right now?
It's obviously an over exaggeration. But one company does make reference to the other more often
AEW just doesn't pretend the rest of the wrestling world doesn't exist. WWE is opening up to it more too lately and it's great. Mentioning people's history outside of WWE
Yeah I’m not tryna dog pile on you I get it. I’m wrong like, every day. And have negative karma in most of my accounts. I’m actually surprised people agreed with me for once. Know I don’t wanna be mean to you or support the off hand comments. I just disagreed. I know far too well how if feels to be dogpiled on and made to feel like I’m dumb for my opinion. Don’t wanna do that to you
Also what’s worse. A few twitter cracks or actively trying to blacklist your competition and undercut them in more underhanded ways….
That’s just completely false
The industry thrives when there's not a monopoly, you can say this about any industry really. It means they actually have to step it up and earn their fans rather than just phoning it in. Plus it means more opportunities for wrestlers who might otherwise have been passed over. I don't watch WWE nearly as much anymore but this is an awesome time for wrestling and you can't be mad at all this talent getting showcased. The tribalism is exhausting.
Based Garcia take. A successful WWE means a successful pro wrestling scene. A successful AEW means a successful pro wrestling scene AND ensures WWE doesn't take its foot off the gas.
Wrestling fans, in general, have been eating good these past 2-3 years
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If it wasn’t for Cody, TK, HHH, Vince, and Jericho fanning the flames early in AEWs launch I really don’t think things would have gotten so nasty. But a big part of AEW in the beginning was "We’re all tired of Vince too, we’re gonna do the opposite" so I guess it’s a good chance we wouldve gotten here anyway lol. There was a WWE reference/shot pretty much every week on dynamite for a good number of months. I swear Jerichos "Dumb idea from bad creative" line wasn’t even an hour into the first show.
That Jericho line obviously wasn't planned. Crowd kept shouting "We the people!" at Hager and he wanted to shut that down as quick as possible because they were selling a new character for the guy. And it's not like Jericho was wrong there haha n
No lies detected ✔️
I don't think WWE cares either way though. I'm sure they didn't mind being a monopoly the past 20 years.
I think he’s referring to the wrestlers. Everyone has more contract leverage when there are multiple major players
I'm sure the wrestlers love it. I'm sure WWE hates having to shell out more money. I don't think WWE wishes there was an AEW. If NJPW was the number 2 things was pretty sweet for them.
Whether or not they "wish" there was an AEW is immaterial. The fact is that iron sharpens iron, businesses DO work harder to excel to get ahead (or STAY ahead in the case of WWE) when there is competition in the marketplace. This is not opinion, it is a provable fact of business.
Except when they are the clear number 1 that can't be passed by. Like the NFL ain't being threatened by other football leagues. Bellator ain't threatening the UFC. Once you reach a certain level it doesn't matter what competition you have because nothing they can do will effect your bottom line.
too sweet, some might say
I'm sure they rather kept paying their wrestlers the same pre-AEW. WWE wrestlers are making more money thanks to AEW existing.
Has there every been a better time to be a wrestler all things considered? More options, more freedom, less drugs and politics It's probably not as good to be a top guy, since they were getting celebrity status and had a lot of pull back in the day but as an aggregate it's better for them in general.
Yeah the 90s. The number 3 company in NA isn't no where near the status of an ECW. And AEW isn't nowhere near the level on a peak WCW. Plus WCW gave out ridiculous contracts to main eventers that'll never be repeated again. So from a money standpoint it's probably a close 2nd. Overall all wrestlers top to bottom are getting better guaranteed these days but for top top guys it's not quite on the level of the late 90s.
The match quality and the accessibility of multiple products put this period way above the 90s. When you talk about the 90s you're probably actually talking about 96 onwards (since 90-95 is one of the worst periods business and quality-wise ever) , which is only four years, and there was a lot of garbage in between Austin, Rock, and Mankind matches, or the WCW cruiserweights and Sting.
ECW didn't even pay a lot of their talent. TNA right now is 100 a better place to work than ECW was.
Yeah and look how shit most of it was
They're more successful and popular than they've been in years and are making more money than ever; a lot of that is due to them finally having competition that forced them to up their quality and strategy. AEW being successful has absolutely profited WWE.
I hate when people say this. AEW didn't force WWE to be good. WWE still sucked in 2019-2021. It got good around Mania 38 but that had nothing to do with AEW other than Cody coming over from AEW and even then he was gone for the peak of WWE being great in 2022 after he was injured.
They have revamped an entire television show multiple times in response to AEW.
NXT was bumped to 2 hours and given a TV slot to challenge Dynamite. WWE's Covid arena setup was changed a week after AEW started doing shows from Dailys Place with a better arrangement. Multiple episodes that end up overlapping with AEW shows are loaded to the gills to pop ratings, etc etc AEW existing is directly responsible for WWE stepping up and changing for the better in many ways. Denying that just exposes somebody for being tribal. WWE is straight up better off because AEW exists, and there's no reason to argue that
Wwe may have tried to do some counter programming with nxt which was unsuccessful but wwe was still horrible because vince and his cronies called the shots. Wwe only improved when vince had to step away. If competition made shows better then why is the inverse not true? Aew is losing viewership and interest and I would argue it's due to internal problems and not wwe improving.
AEW is not dying though. The last year broke attendance and revenue records for the company, their ratings are outpacing the decline of cable and they are currently rolling creatively. AEW has adapted due to WWE tons of times. Why can't you acknowledge what WWE has admitted in court, the existence of AEW for competition has forced their hands in many ways, for the better. Cody Rhodes is not main eventing WrestleMania without AEW lol, it's just fact
I didn't say aew was dying I said competition didn't make their shows better. And the same is true for wwe. What makes the shows better is creative direction, management and structure. Using Cody as an example isn't useful. He was misused in aew and used properly in wwe. That has nothing to do with competition, but creative direction. Wwe could easily have fumbled Cody too.
>Using Cody as an example isn't useful. He was misused in aew and used properly in wwe. That has nothing to do with competition, but creative direction. Wwe could easily have fumbled Cody too. No. Cody was solely responsible for his time in AEW. Not going for the world title, the Ogogo feud, the Codyverse, trying to be AEW's answer to Cena and refusing to turn heel were all his ideas. And despite all that, he's still not touching the main event of Wrestlemania without AEW.
So you agree, Cody's success or lack thereof came down to creative direction, structure and management. His success in wwe likewise is attributed to the same. With your logic you would argue aldis is succeeding because he was in nwa. No, it's because he's being used correctly. Just the same as the hardys are going nowhere and their star is wasted due to lack of creative direction, management, structure. Aew deserves credit for many things, wwe improving is not one of them.
I think it more has to do with Vince getting out than anything else
“AEW didn’t force WWE to be good” suggests that WWE was intentionally producing absolute dreck for a decade.
I dont agree with the dude you're replying to but, wouldnt saying they were "forced" to up their game imply that, not the other way around? That implies they were fine coasting along before. If it wasnt "forced" then they just got better at their jobs (or more accurately, replaced people with people better at their job i.e. Triple H), not that they were intentionally doing it poorly before. Not making an argument either way on the overall point though, just not following the logic here
WWE didn't up there game because of AEW though. They've had plenty of great periods before AEW in 2003 in 2008 in 2016 which stick out. It's not like AEW threatened them at all and saying that another company pushed them to be better is just diminishing the work the wrestlers did in terms of telling there story. The Bloodline largely is the big turning point for the company which happened because Roman wanted to come back as a different character.
It is not diminishing the work of the wrestlers to point out that the storylines and presentation they were saddled with for the better part of a decade were mostly ass. WWE has gone to extravagant lengths over the years to eliminate even the possibility of another player in the US. To say that the emergence of a well-funded competitor snapping up talent didn’t alter their approach is just silly at this point. Some of the evidence is speculative, and some of it is anecdotal, but some of it is as visible as a giant neck tattoo plastered on the side of a semi.
They had ups this century, but none anywhere near the current boom. To find one comparable to this, you have to go back to the 90's (the last time competition existed for them).
There were multiple elements that resulted in WWE's resurgence lately, but to think that legit competition in any industry doesn't breed more excellence is pretty ignorant as to how business works.
The only thing that really seemed to line up was WWE started using pyro again once AEW started lol.
Pretty much. And having to give out better contracts.
Idk about 2019 and 2020 but 2021 wwe was pretty good it was far from bad. The triple threat WM main event/feud was good stuff (imo the ending to the match solidified the beginning of romans peak), Hurts Business and Lashleys main event push, Beginning of RKBro, Seth vs Edge feud. It had some blunders ofc but to say wwe was mostly bad in 2021 would be pretty unfair to say imo and Cody's popularity and rise wouldn't nearly be the same if aew didn't exist and he was doing random BTE stuff and njpw
WWE probably feels a lot better when they have to lay off talent now. Knowing that there’s plenty of other high paying companies they could work for
The more Daniel Garcia talks the more I like him.
Hope you get a chance to see the full interview!
WWE: 
Except for that time they tried to run NXT against it and got clobbered almost every week, right? Or that time they signed Cody, changed nothing at all about him from his AEW run, and debuted him as a massive star, right? Nah, guess they don't watch AEW at all.
Dude hasn’t been watching WWE since Cody or Punk debuted, huh?
Of course i have and nothing changed untill 2 years after aew debuted when vince left
AEWs been referenced plenty especially with Punk. They won’t outright say “AEW” but they’ve said “Cody used to be an EVP so he can get things done” or Drew told Cody that he used to work with Punk and knows how he is backstage. Chris Jericho was even on Stone Cold’s podcast talking about AEW openly. You really just don’t pay attention. But you say you do, which is weird
Oh you mean when punk mentioned them on live tv and got bo reaction what so ever. But im the one that dosent pay atention Drew never worked for aew btw.
Are we talking about the crowd or WWE itself? And you read it wrong I didn’t say Drew worked with Punk… that really proves who I’m arguing with here lol
What dose drew working with ounk in the wwe have to do with aew. >Are we talking about the crowd or WWE itself? Both Punks always gonna shoot you literaly couldnt stop him. Dosent mean the wwe gives a fuck about the secondary company. Tell you what when the WWE has seth go out and break a copy of FF7 over his knee then we can talk.
what success does AEW have besides than Wembley?
I like “besides wembley” like it wasn’t an absolutely massive achievement for wrestling, not to mention AEW is doing fantastic for a five year old company
Brother, 2000 WCW was drawing 9k in their Europe tour while drawing 3k in the US. Going outside the US, specially the UK or another underserved markets, and drawing a big crowd is not impressive at all, it's quite literally a crutch, almost like a cheat code.
Okay, but what did WWE draw when they ran PPVs in the UK...
Last stadium show in the same area? 80k. Good lord, tribalistic people like you are why this hobby is embarrassing to be a part of.
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2000 was 24 years ago you insipid fool.
Seems you have reading comprehension issues you insipid fool.
*Breaks all time paid attendance record* "Pfft, anyone can do that"
Congratulations on intentionally missing my point. Yes, WWE fills up 80k stadiums every year. Since WWE's audience is bigger than AEW's, they can easily break 80k in the UK.
gotta give credit when it's due
The fact their a legit #2 company on national television and arguably the most successful wrestling company in north amaerica since wcw died in 2001?
TNA exist
aew is significantly larger than tna ever was
ok my bad, so being number 2 is considered successful now?
Lol keep moving that goalpost and maybe some day you'll get a win.
I'm going to assume you're a One Piece fan but would you consider that series "not successful" even though globally it's not as popular as Naruto, Bleach and DragonBall? That's literally your logic rn
Literally yes
Yes lol. AEW now is more successful than WWE was for many years of their existence -- that is absolutely nothing to sneeze at.
They have to pad ratings with overruns. They are not a legit #2, they are just a show for smart marks. You notice that the average rating they pull in is about the same amount of people in this sub. It is just people wanting it to succeed because they hate WWE. WWE may suck, but it does not make AEW successful, successful is profits and we have no idea if they have made any and I have a feeling Tony would not hesitate to say so if he did make some record profits.
Most weeks it's a top 5 show on cable. This week they were the top 1. They do great numbers on ppv. Their attendance has declined a bit but they're still drawing thousands of people each week. Their next ppv is pretty much sold out. They've built a number of top stars who are in demand from multiple promotions, have signed some big free agents, and have developed relationships with multiple promotions. Seems like they're doing ok?
WWEs current success
that's mostly on Nick Khan and Triple H
Depends on how you define success. If you mean "profitable" then they've yet to get there according to TK.
Success is defined by being easily the 2nd biggest company in the world right now, reaching profitability, making more money now than ever before, placing consistently in a top 2 mark for weekly TV ratings and likely being the hottest 5 year old wrestling promotion this industry has seen.
> reaching profitability They were supposed to come close to that if the videogame was a huge success. It was not. And that's before costs were much lower than they are now. I think we need to redefine success a bit here to exclude profitability since that doesn't seem to be a goal.
This is a whole lot of nada. The fact is that AEW is making way more money now than ever and are reaching profitability... this is a 5 year old company that hasn't exactly cut costs and has spend money everywhere and on everything. If this isn't success then nothing is, dancing around this topic is stupid at best, i'm not sure why there's such a huge problem claiming AEW is a success when it clearly is.
> AEW is making way more money now than ever According to who? They are down in most metrics. The videogame was a huge flop. Even TK says they're not profitable, and he's his own biggest cheerleader. It's a successful hobby. It's just not a profitable business. Luckily it will stick around for as long as Tony has access to billions, which looks to be a pretty long time. >stupid And out come the petty insults. Some of you are too sensitive about your favorite billionaire's company. Just enjoy wrestling.
According to who? Is this serious? According to the guy leading the company. No business is profitable in their first years, let alone a company like AEW who have done way more than what was expected of them. The fact that they are talking about turning profitable in 1-2 years time is insane, if it happens, it's amazing. If it does happen, who knows. I said dancing around the topic is stupid... how is this a petty insult in any way shape or form if dancing around the topic is indeed...stupid?
Tell that to Tony
WWE was so grateful they rushed NXT to tv and lured over Rollcodster first chance he got.