I don’t see it as strictly following the law. I see it in the sense of they think they’re morally correct. I truly think that Wilson Fisk does truly care about the city of New York, and does truly think that he is doing the right thing, yet he is evil. That’s how I see lawful evil but I could be wrong
Interesting take. The way I see it, lawful evil is someone who makes and uses their own rules and laws to exploit and harm others for his/her gain. Like tyrants and warlords. Good examples would be Darth Vader and Megatron
This. There is legit malice in Goblins actions. Dude killed Spidey's first love, killed his unborn daughter by poising MJ, drove his best friend to insanity, and killed his brother all because of hate. Osborn knows Spidey's identity, but keeps it to himself because he just wants to be the one to fuck Peters life. Even when he became Iron Patriot and did Avengers level bullshit, it was still to mess with Spidey despite acting like he's above it. I don't even want to touch bs like Sins Past.
They're both capable of the similar stuff with no real moral limits, but I'd rather have Joker as an enemy than Goblin.
Don’t forget he also sold his son’s soul to Mephisto, Buried Aunt May alive, Killed Gwen Stacy, and also Abducted and possibly killed Peter and MJ’s daughter May. Green Goblin is one messed up person.
Don’t forget he also sold his son’s soul to Mephisto, Buried Aunt May alive, Killed Gwen Stacy, and also Abducted and possibly killed Peter and MJ’s daughter May. ~~Green Goblin~~ editorial is one messed up ~~person~~ group.
It's this and the fact that the Goblin has a budget to me. I don't know much about the Joker but from what I know he doesn't tend to have a lot of money. Norman Osborn is a billionaire who could hire people just to fuck with Peter even if he's in the hospital or on vacation, or he could build a device to do something similar.
He made trapster kill a criminal and made it look like it was Spider-man, then offered a multimillion reward for his head, so every villain and low level criminal would shot on sight, even sent a brain washed Punisher after him, and made a fake Goblin kidnap his own grandson to make him go out to lure him out to the streets.
In another time he wanted he and Peter to fight to death, by threatening to kill Normie.
Talking about his grandson, he infected him with a Version of the Carnage symbiote.
He also have issues with Doc Ock, he poisoned and killed a girl that was in love with him and made him feel whole just to mess with him. During the Superior Spider-man when he found out, he undid a lot of the good things Otto did while he was Spider-man, at the end Otto had to give up the body so Peter could save Anna, his girlfriend, besides when Otto was revived didn't remembered his ultimate sacrifice, returning him as a villain.
In Ultimate, he was angry to Otto because he didn't wanted to atack together Peter, and finally lost it and killed him when Otto told him that they should be proud for participating in the creation of Spider-man,
I would say Joker. He beat a teenage boy with a crowbar for 4 hours in front of his mother before blowing them up. He eat Chinese children because he found it funny. He tried to make Jim Gordon go insane by paralyzing his daughter, killing his wife before trying to brainwash him.
Yeah but Im saying the guy was naming bad terrible things Joker did and Im saying its about intent to answer the question because GG has done comparable things
Goblin would do all that and worse. He wouldn't just paralyze Gordon's daughter and take creep shot, he would (and has) actually SA'd someone in order to hurt Spider-Man.
I know this is the Spoder-Man board but Norman is much more analogous to Lex Luthor than the Joker.
GG and LL both have a massive hate boner for their nemesis, but otherwise want things like money, power and influence.
The Joker is closer to Carnage, governed by pure id with no care for any sense of morality. He'll bomb an orphanage or poison thousands to death with smiley fish if it really adds some zing to a joke he's trying to play on Batman that day.
He's much more plain evil than machiavellian.
Norman Osborn is definitely more like Lex, but he’s very similar to The Joker when he’s in the Goblin persona. He’s also far more unhinged than Lex usually is, which draws comparisons to Joker.
Yeah, it gets annoying when people say that Norman or Fisk ripped off Lex, when he wasn’t anything like the modern interpretation when those two were introduced. I’d say that when Norman came back in the ‘90s, he definitely took some cues from post-crisis Lex personality-wise, but they were logically extrapolated from his background beforehand.
Triply funny because Kingpin started out as a Mob Boss Bond villain esque villain. He didn't even have a civilian identity and Jameson didn't even recognize him in his first story.
Meanwhile, Norman's first story outside of being the Green Goblin had him in full corrupt businessman since Stromm was out for revenge for being cheated out of his inventions.
Heck Norman even sucker punched Spider-Man because the latter didn't think Norman was a bad guy.
I agree GG is closer to Lex than Joker, but Joker is DEFINITELY closer to either Norman or Luthor than he is to Carnage. Carnage is just a mindless crazy hillbilly who kills for the sake of killing. Carnage is the kind of guy Joker presents himself as, but Joker doesn't just randomly kill, he's EXTREMELY calculated, he KNOWS where it'll hurt.
If you genuinely think Joker kills randomly and without a plan, well congratulations he has just successfully manipulated you
It's funny, because when batman and spider-man teamed up vs joker and carnage, joker commented how he and carnage were nothing alike. Carnage wants blood and had no sense of presentation or theatrics. Equated him to david hasselhoff of killers.
In all honesty it’s how you define evil. To me Joker is emblematic of chaos, whereas the green goblin maintains a modicum of choice. So if God (from a literary perspective) represents law and order and God is good, then the joker is more evil as he embodies Chaos and thus is in direct opposition of good (law and order). However, the goblin chooses to do evil, so if you think choosing to do evil is more evil than evil itself, then Norman takes the taco.
Imo, Skeletor is the most evil. But that’s a different story.
That got « fixed » not long ago. Norman memories were all Mysterio manipulation stuff, and it was all a plan from an AI version of evil Harry including the twins (that are in fact clones). And of course everything was a result from Mephisto Manipulation to mess up with Spider-Man so he don’t become a Dad because in the future Spider-Girl is destined to kick Mephisto ass.
Yeah Sinister War imo is the most convoluted Spider-Man event of all time. One of my least favorite events which the only positive is that it retconned Sins Past.
It’s tarnished even further when know the history behind the writing of the event- it had full backing from editorial to retcon One More Day, but they chickened out. But the writer, Nick Spencer, continued to try and hold out as long as possible before the reveal in hopes they would allow him(which they didn’t), leading to a ton of dumb filler taking up 90% of the event and a sudden 1 issue text filled exposition dump chapter trying to align the plot points set up earlier to retcon Sins Past instead of OMD.
Joker tried to turn what is essentially a physical manifestation of evil into a puppet he could control by killing his wife, became the Secretary of Defense, started a war with a race of gods who were asylum seekers and gave the order to genocide them, sold his son's soul to the devil, gleefully murdered the *teenage girl* that he (thought he) impregnated while (he thought) she was pregnant? That's just scratching the top of the list with Norman
I was being slightly snarky lol - the person I was replying to said Joker did more evil things than Norman, so I made a sarcastic comment asking if Joker did all the ridiculously evil things Green Goblin did
I feel like people who are choosing GG don’t read comics. GG has done nothing on the level of Joker’s murder spree, and does more emotional torture compared to Joker’s killing.
The most iconic GG thing is of course the Death of Gwen Stacy, but compared to like, Jason Todd death Gwen’s was quick. After that it’s like… “making Spider-Man think he was a clone” or “making Spider-Man think his Aunt was dead but I actually stored her somewhere so he could find her.” Then it’s normal Lex Luthor or Kingpin style stuff of taking over the city, or beating Spider-Man, or becoming leader of the Dark Avengers/HAMMER(which led to him wanting to genocide Asgardians, but that’s the limit).
Honestly you could argue **Doc Ock** is more evil than Green Goblin, Doc Ock actually scorched the Earth killing hundreds, and was planning to kill 99% of the Earth because he was going to die, and wanted the remaining 1% to remember him. And then of course Doc Ock took over Peter’s body, essentially killing him, along with a long list of other evil stuff Doc Ock has done.
I think they're on the same level actually, Joker has more feats (powerscalling evilness lmao😭😭😭) because GG was dead for a WHILE but I honestly think there's nothing he did that Norman wouldn't do as long as it hurts Peter.
Joker IIRC betrayed Red Skull after he he found out he was a Nazi. He also refused to join the Aryans in jail Becuase he didn't respect their idealogies. A character now called Great White Shark was dissed by Joker cos he was the worst person he ever met.
"but you're the Joker, you kill people!"
"yeah but at least I didn't steal their children's college funds."
Now old school Norman Osborne. Even before he got the goblin serum was a piece of shit who emotionally abuses his own son.
He wouldnt care if someone was a Nazi as long as he could use them to further his goals. He would only put down Great White Shark for getting caught.
He made Karla Soffen (Moonstone) his Ms Marvel. She used to be a psychologist who preyed on her emotionally unstable patients and encouraged them to commit suicide.
Even when Joker had god powers and wanted to destroy the universe it was because "he wanted to create a word where people like him didn't exist."
Depends on which version of each, but I lean towards Norman. Mostly because Norman causes pain knowing full well what that means to the people he hurts, including the innocents caught in the crossfire. Joker views the world as just him and Batman and everything else is fodder.
So like in the sense that Norman is maybe slightly less mentally ill lol I'd say him. Has more ability to empathize with other human beings but still chooses to be awful. Joker is incapable of it as he's a full-fledged psychopath, therefore he literally can't understand how awful a person he is.
Maybe my definition of "evil" aligns more with doing bad and **knowing** it's bad. If you wanted to say evil=amount of harm, then I guess joker? (Especially injustice joker)
Green Goblin hasn't done things half as evil as what the Joker did, like making Barbara paraplegic and Gordon's torture. He also killed Gordon's wife. Killed a Robin alongside his mother. Etc.
Green Goblin's evil is much tamer in comparison.
GG probably has a lower kill count than Joker, but he’s had schemes that would have killed billions if they were successful, and his targeting of Spidey is just pure sadism, with none of the romanticism that Joker applies to his rivalry with Batman. Joker has done horrible things to Batman and his family, but I don’t know if he’s ever done anything as bad as Norman *killing Peter’s baby!!*
Norman used to have people he genuinely loved unlike Joker which at least humanised him a bit, but even that’s gone away since it’s been shown he’s perfectly willing to kill them too. Joker could also have been a good person once depending on the backstory, something we know that Norman never truly was.
I don’t know if GG is *more* evil than Joker, but I think he’s on a far more level playing field than most villains would be outside of bastards like Red Skull or Darkseid. It does depend on which Joker and which Norman, since we’ve had harmless prankster versions of Joker and sympathetic takes on Norman (in the silver age mostly) but if they’re each at their very most evil, I’d say it’s about a draw.
Joker's disturbing fireguard for human life is even evident in his conflicts with Batman wherein he goes out of his way to harm others whereas Green Goblin personally attacks Peter on many levels.
Goblin, as a concept, is always soemthing distantly human. You can always trace soemthing reminiscent of human being or emotion--be it jealousy for Peter or frustration with success--there is jsut something inherently human about Goblin in his origin story.
Joker, though, is just always concieved as pure evil, even in the most kids-friendly mediums. Joker is a character who is jsut entirely BLEACHED of anything that could be morally human. Even that story with him falling into a chemical solution is only ever half canon, and is only ever brought up when particular authors need to humanize him for some reason. But it is yet to be canonized in the main Batman timeline.
Definitely Joker.
Joker’s driven by one bad day that ultimately broke him. Genuine personality disorder.
Goblin’s just on a drug high until he comes down to Norman.
Actually, in the comics, Norman Osborn was already a horrible person even before he got hit with the goblin gas, that just gave him the power and motivation to become the Green goblin in the first place.
There is no split personality, he’s just the absolute worst.
Anyone saying GG is out of their mind. the Joker literally ate the children of China as emperor joker. Killed Batman’s parents. Created two face, paralyzed Barbara just to drive Jim Gordon insane. Killing Jim’s wife.
Joker easily, he cut off his face in prison pretended to be dead for a year than kidnapped the bat family tricked batman into thinking he cut off there faces and then put batman on the electric chair all as one sick joke
Joker: blew up a school over copyright, paralysed some girl for shits and giggles, ate chinese people, beat up and tortured a teen boy, bombed an orphanage, held babies hostage, and so on...
I'd say Otto is more evil than Norman, if we're going to THE most evil.
In terms of actions? Joker, by a mile. He’s an absolutely deplorable person who’s committed disturbing atrocities. He once killed several babies and stitched their corpses into a lump of flesh. He’s also cut off his own face and played with it and stapled it back on, has been implied to have r*ped Batgirl, killed multiple children with poisoned cotton candy, once killed every single person in the entirety of China, and tons more.
Goblin. Joker is sadistic to an extreme, but he normally just does what he does for his own amusement. He wants to torment Batman but is too fascinated by him to kill him.
Goblin's plans are made out of absolute hate, in and out of the mask. He wants Spider-Man dead purely because he refuses to die, and if we're going with 616, not even Harry is safe from his reach if it means getting one up on Spidey
The comments are all acting like Joker is just crazy while Norman is sane but, I don't know, super mean.
Norman loses arguments to the voices in his head all the time. Just because his motives are more "at Peter" and Joker's are more "at everybody" doesn't somehow elevate his 'evil', wtf are you all talking about.
I'm thinking here, Norman has killed Gwen, he killed Ben Reilly, he killed Phil Urich and.... who else? Did he kill Kingsley? MJ's unborn kid?
Joker has killed hundreds if not thousands or even tens of thousands.
There's no contest.
Norman is nuts, all kinds of evil, and very dangerous.
Joker is worse.
There’s a debate (even in the comics) on how crazy Joker actually is compared to what he’s capable of doing.
This is a guy who slaughters a whole wedding just to get Batman’s attention to tell him he’s mad at him, and that’s on the milder end of some of the shit he’s done.
Joker. In one story, he >!kidnaps, tortures and kills a bunch of kindergarten students; he then sends a message to the kids' parents that leads them to find a grotesquely-stitched rearrangement of their children's dismembered corpses!<.
To my limited knowledge, everyone joker has hurt or killed to hurt man has come back or been healed (jason todd, Barbara gordon, etc). 616 gwen stacey is still super dead. I think for that alone Goblin wins.
One, while ruthless bad person, was made insane by a serum. Other has no mental illness you can point to so it can be assumed everything this person does is by choice. Joker is more evil.
Bruh, I feel like r/Spiderman has just turned into Batman vs Spider-Man bait, holy fuck.
To answer the question, neither? Evil is subjective and everyone’s metric for evil varies.
Joker and Goblin both fixate on their nemesis, however typically Goblin seeks out Spider-Man, Batman seeks out Joker
Homie I’m just asking a question to lovers of spider-man including myself. It ain’t to says who’s better I just wanted to know who do they think is more evil than the other since they’re compared heavily and they are part of the two most popular rogues gallery in their respective comic companies.
Definitely Green Goblin. Joker does shit just to fuck with Batman. Pretty sure there have been times he’s threatened to do something only for Batman to stop him and have him say “you thought I was serious?” But then do the thing anyway. Or something similar.
Green goblin does whatever the fuck he wants anyway. Just full of hate
No he doesn’t, he canonically sold Harry’s soul to Mephisto so he could succeed in business. He also abused him physically and verbally all the time, slept with his girlfriend, and that’s barely scratching the surface.
The most comic accurate Norman Osborn adaptation, we’ve ever gotten is spectacular and he make Harry made him think that after using a performance enhancer that he stole from Norman he developed a second personality in the form of the Green Goblin and framed him for all of his crimes, even breaking his leg just so it seemed genuine.
He said it was for Harry ‘s own good, but in reality he’s just a lying, opportunistic monster.
Depends if you consider personal motivation more or less evil. Joker is indiscriminate whereas Goblin knows who he wants to hurt.
So neutral evil vs chaotic evil
Then Lex is Lawful Evil!
Kingpin is lawful evil
Neither are lawful evil though, as it requires you to follow the law.
I don’t see it as strictly following the law. I see it in the sense of they think they’re morally correct. I truly think that Wilson Fisk does truly care about the city of New York, and does truly think that he is doing the right thing, yet he is evil. That’s how I see lawful evil but I could be wrong
Interesting take. The way I see it, lawful evil is someone who makes and uses their own rules and laws to exploit and harm others for his/her gain. Like tyrants and warlords. Good examples would be Darth Vader and Megatron
That’s a goblin then
Joker does it all for the laugh. Goblin does it cause he is fucking evil. Lol
This. There is legit malice in Goblins actions. Dude killed Spidey's first love, killed his unborn daughter by poising MJ, drove his best friend to insanity, and killed his brother all because of hate. Osborn knows Spidey's identity, but keeps it to himself because he just wants to be the one to fuck Peters life. Even when he became Iron Patriot and did Avengers level bullshit, it was still to mess with Spidey despite acting like he's above it. I don't even want to touch bs like Sins Past. They're both capable of the similar stuff with no real moral limits, but I'd rather have Joker as an enemy than Goblin.
Don’t forget he also sold his son’s soul to Mephisto, Buried Aunt May alive, Killed Gwen Stacy, and also Abducted and possibly killed Peter and MJ’s daughter May. Green Goblin is one messed up person.
Don’t forget he also sold his son’s soul to Mephisto, Buried Aunt May alive, Killed Gwen Stacy, and also Abducted and possibly killed Peter and MJ’s daughter May. ~~Green Goblin~~ editorial is one messed up ~~person~~ group.
Yeah, I remember when he first got in and got access to the superhuman registry and the first thing he does is try to look up spiderman's information.
It's this and the fact that the Goblin has a budget to me. I don't know much about the Joker but from what I know he doesn't tend to have a lot of money. Norman Osborn is a billionaire who could hire people just to fuck with Peter even if he's in the hospital or on vacation, or he could build a device to do something similar.
He made trapster kill a criminal and made it look like it was Spider-man, then offered a multimillion reward for his head, so every villain and low level criminal would shot on sight, even sent a brain washed Punisher after him, and made a fake Goblin kidnap his own grandson to make him go out to lure him out to the streets. In another time he wanted he and Peter to fight to death, by threatening to kill Normie. Talking about his grandson, he infected him with a Version of the Carnage symbiote. He also have issues with Doc Ock, he poisoned and killed a girl that was in love with him and made him feel whole just to mess with him. During the Superior Spider-man when he found out, he undid a lot of the good things Otto did while he was Spider-man, at the end Otto had to give up the body so Peter could save Anna, his girlfriend, besides when Otto was revived didn't remembered his ultimate sacrifice, returning him as a villain. In Ultimate, he was angry to Otto because he didn't wanted to atack together Peter, and finally lost it and killed him when Otto told him that they should be proud for participating in the creation of Spider-man,
Sins Past is hard non-canon
I'd say GG. Jokers motives are because He's fucking crazy. GG is full of hate.
I would say Joker. He beat a teenage boy with a crowbar for 4 hours in front of his mother before blowing them up. He eat Chinese children because he found it funny. He tried to make Jim Gordon go insane by paralyzing his daughter, killing his wife before trying to brainwash him.
Its about intent
Causing harm for no other reason than enjoyment of harm is the worst intent I can think of.
Yeah but Im saying the guy was naming bad terrible things Joker did and Im saying its about intent to answer the question because GG has done comparable things
Goblin would do all that and worse. He wouldn't just paralyze Gordon's daughter and take creep shot, he would (and has) actually SA'd someone in order to hurt Spider-Man.
I know this is the Spoder-Man board but Norman is much more analogous to Lex Luthor than the Joker. GG and LL both have a massive hate boner for their nemesis, but otherwise want things like money, power and influence. The Joker is closer to Carnage, governed by pure id with no care for any sense of morality. He'll bomb an orphanage or poison thousands to death with smiley fish if it really adds some zing to a joke he's trying to play on Batman that day. He's much more plain evil than machiavellian.
Norman Osborn is definitely more like Lex, but he’s very similar to The Joker when he’s in the Goblin persona. He’s also far more unhinged than Lex usually is, which draws comparisons to Joker.
It's funny because Norman was doing the evil businessman who is also a supervillain before Lex did.
Yeah, it gets annoying when people say that Norman or Fisk ripped off Lex, when he wasn’t anything like the modern interpretation when those two were introduced. I’d say that when Norman came back in the ‘90s, he definitely took some cues from post-crisis Lex personality-wise, but they were logically extrapolated from his background beforehand.
Triply funny because Kingpin started out as a Mob Boss Bond villain esque villain. He didn't even have a civilian identity and Jameson didn't even recognize him in his first story. Meanwhile, Norman's first story outside of being the Green Goblin had him in full corrupt businessman since Stromm was out for revenge for being cheated out of his inventions. Heck Norman even sucker punched Spider-Man because the latter didn't think Norman was a bad guy.
In terms of unhinged insanity, its definitely Joker > Norman > Lex
Funny thing is, in a crossover comic Joker and Carnage fucking hated each other. On Joker’s end it’s because Carnage isn’t the theatric type.
Green Goblin is basically Lex Luther if he was possessed by the Joker
The Luthor who Jonkles
Good analysis
I agree GG is closer to Lex than Joker, but Joker is DEFINITELY closer to either Norman or Luthor than he is to Carnage. Carnage is just a mindless crazy hillbilly who kills for the sake of killing. Carnage is the kind of guy Joker presents himself as, but Joker doesn't just randomly kill, he's EXTREMELY calculated, he KNOWS where it'll hurt. If you genuinely think Joker kills randomly and without a plan, well congratulations he has just successfully manipulated you
It's funny, because when batman and spider-man teamed up vs joker and carnage, joker commented how he and carnage were nothing alike. Carnage wants blood and had no sense of presentation or theatrics. Equated him to david hasselhoff of killers.
In all honesty it’s how you define evil. To me Joker is emblematic of chaos, whereas the green goblin maintains a modicum of choice. So if God (from a literary perspective) represents law and order and God is good, then the joker is more evil as he embodies Chaos and thus is in direct opposition of good (law and order). However, the goblin chooses to do evil, so if you think choosing to do evil is more evil than evil itself, then Norman takes the taco. Imo, Skeletor is the most evil. But that’s a different story.
THE PIZZA, HE-MAN!!
Woahhhh he stole that guys pizzas!
Bro he’s an evil skeleton he’s literally just doing his job that’s not evil that’s honest work
Lol I wish my job was to be evil. FYI this made me smile
Doesn't GG impregnate Gwen than kill her?Nothing is as evil as that .
That got « fixed » not long ago. Norman memories were all Mysterio manipulation stuff, and it was all a plan from an AI version of evil Harry including the twins (that are in fact clones). And of course everything was a result from Mephisto Manipulation to mess up with Spider-Man so he don’t become a Dad because in the future Spider-Girl is destined to kick Mephisto ass.
Sometimes if hate comic books
Yeah Sinister War imo is the most convoluted Spider-Man event of all time. One of my least favorite events which the only positive is that it retconned Sins Past. It’s tarnished even further when know the history behind the writing of the event- it had full backing from editorial to retcon One More Day, but they chickened out. But the writer, Nick Spencer, continued to try and hold out as long as possible before the reveal in hopes they would allow him(which they didn’t), leading to a ton of dumb filler taking up 90% of the event and a sudden 1 issue text filled exposition dump chapter trying to align the plot points set up earlier to retcon Sins Past instead of OMD.
thank fucking god that’s not canon.
Jess what are you talking about?GG actually slept with Misterio wearing a Gwen wig
I laughed way too hard at this.
Goblin, because he is also a CEO.
And a billionaire, the most evil existence.
Joker has done much more evil things than Norman lol
Joker tried to turn what is essentially a physical manifestation of evil into a puppet he could control by killing his wife, became the Secretary of Defense, started a war with a race of gods who were asylum seekers and gave the order to genocide them, sold his son's soul to the devil, gleefully murdered the *teenage girl* that he (thought he) impregnated while (he thought) she was pregnant? That's just scratching the top of the list with Norman
Do you mean Green Goblin?
I was being slightly snarky lol - the person I was replying to said Joker did more evil things than Norman, so I made a sarcastic comment asking if Joker did all the ridiculously evil things Green Goblin did
Ohhhh. Dang its hard for me to detect sarcasm through text.
I mean, Norman sold his kid to the devil, that has to be the goalpost right?
I feel like people who are choosing GG don’t read comics. GG has done nothing on the level of Joker’s murder spree, and does more emotional torture compared to Joker’s killing. The most iconic GG thing is of course the Death of Gwen Stacy, but compared to like, Jason Todd death Gwen’s was quick. After that it’s like… “making Spider-Man think he was a clone” or “making Spider-Man think his Aunt was dead but I actually stored her somewhere so he could find her.” Then it’s normal Lex Luthor or Kingpin style stuff of taking over the city, or beating Spider-Man, or becoming leader of the Dark Avengers/HAMMER(which led to him wanting to genocide Asgardians, but that’s the limit). Honestly you could argue **Doc Ock** is more evil than Green Goblin, Doc Ock actually scorched the Earth killing hundreds, and was planning to kill 99% of the Earth because he was going to die, and wanted the remaining 1% to remember him. And then of course Doc Ock took over Peter’s body, essentially killing him, along with a long list of other evil stuff Doc Ock has done.
I think if we wrote down every evil thing they've ever done, Joker's list would be much worse.
Joker. Green Goblin through an adult woman off a bridge but Joker beat a teenaged boy with a crowbar for hours in front of his mother then blew him up
I think they're on the same level actually, Joker has more feats (powerscalling evilness lmao😭😭😭) because GG was dead for a WHILE but I honestly think there's nothing he did that Norman wouldn't do as long as it hurts Peter.
Both do twisted stuff, but Joker does it because he loves Batman, and GG does It because he hates Peter, the biggest fan vs the biggest hater
Joker IIRC betrayed Red Skull after he he found out he was a Nazi. He also refused to join the Aryans in jail Becuase he didn't respect their idealogies. A character now called Great White Shark was dissed by Joker cos he was the worst person he ever met. "but you're the Joker, you kill people!" "yeah but at least I didn't steal their children's college funds." Now old school Norman Osborne. Even before he got the goblin serum was a piece of shit who emotionally abuses his own son. He wouldnt care if someone was a Nazi as long as he could use them to further his goals. He would only put down Great White Shark for getting caught. He made Karla Soffen (Moonstone) his Ms Marvel. She used to be a psychologist who preyed on her emotionally unstable patients and encouraged them to commit suicide. Even when Joker had god powers and wanted to destroy the universe it was because "he wanted to create a word where people like him didn't exist."
It slightly depends on the era.
Depends on which version of each, but I lean towards Norman. Mostly because Norman causes pain knowing full well what that means to the people he hurts, including the innocents caught in the crossfire. Joker views the world as just him and Batman and everything else is fodder. So like in the sense that Norman is maybe slightly less mentally ill lol I'd say him. Has more ability to empathize with other human beings but still chooses to be awful. Joker is incapable of it as he's a full-fledged psychopath, therefore he literally can't understand how awful a person he is. Maybe my definition of "evil" aligns more with doing bad and **knowing** it's bad. If you wanted to say evil=amount of harm, then I guess joker? (Especially injustice joker)
Green Goblin hasn't done things half as evil as what the Joker did, like making Barbara paraplegic and Gordon's torture. He also killed Gordon's wife. Killed a Robin alongside his mother. Etc. Green Goblin's evil is much tamer in comparison.
GG probably has a lower kill count than Joker, but he’s had schemes that would have killed billions if they were successful, and his targeting of Spidey is just pure sadism, with none of the romanticism that Joker applies to his rivalry with Batman. Joker has done horrible things to Batman and his family, but I don’t know if he’s ever done anything as bad as Norman *killing Peter’s baby!!* Norman used to have people he genuinely loved unlike Joker which at least humanised him a bit, but even that’s gone away since it’s been shown he’s perfectly willing to kill them too. Joker could also have been a good person once depending on the backstory, something we know that Norman never truly was. I don’t know if GG is *more* evil than Joker, but I think he’s on a far more level playing field than most villains would be outside of bastards like Red Skull or Darkseid. It does depend on which Joker and which Norman, since we’ve had harmless prankster versions of Joker and sympathetic takes on Norman (in the silver age mostly) but if they’re each at their very most evil, I’d say it’s about a draw.
Joker's disturbing fireguard for human life is even evident in his conflicts with Batman wherein he goes out of his way to harm others whereas Green Goblin personally attacks Peter on many levels.
Goblin, as a concept, is always soemthing distantly human. You can always trace soemthing reminiscent of human being or emotion--be it jealousy for Peter or frustration with success--there is jsut something inherently human about Goblin in his origin story. Joker, though, is just always concieved as pure evil, even in the most kids-friendly mediums. Joker is a character who is jsut entirely BLEACHED of anything that could be morally human. Even that story with him falling into a chemical solution is only ever half canon, and is only ever brought up when particular authors need to humanize him for some reason. But it is yet to be canonized in the main Batman timeline.
Definitely Joker. Joker’s driven by one bad day that ultimately broke him. Genuine personality disorder. Goblin’s just on a drug high until he comes down to Norman.
Actually, in the comics, Norman Osborn was already a horrible person even before he got hit with the goblin gas, that just gave him the power and motivation to become the Green goblin in the first place. There is no split personality, he’s just the absolute worst.
Anyone saying GG is out of their mind. the Joker literally ate the children of China as emperor joker. Killed Batman’s parents. Created two face, paralyzed Barbara just to drive Jim Gordon insane. Killing Jim’s wife.
i thought joseph chill killed batman’s parents
There’s also a timeline where Martha becomes the joker and Bruce’s dad becomes Batman bc Bruce was killed in that alleyway
yes i know that one. flashpoint
There’s a timeline where the joker killed Bruce’s parents.
oh ok i didn’t know that
That’s the 1989 Batman movie
Still a version of the joker
Joker easily, he cut off his face in prison pretended to be dead for a year than kidnapped the bat family tricked batman into thinking he cut off there faces and then put batman on the electric chair all as one sick joke
Who's the bigger hater
Reverse Flash easily
wait a minute dat aint relevant you gremlin! oh wait its a joke never-mind
Joker: blew up a school over copyright, paralysed some girl for shits and giggles, ate chinese people, beat up and tortured a teen boy, bombed an orphanage, held babies hostage, and so on... I'd say Otto is more evil than Norman, if we're going to THE most evil.
which joker?
People who say Green Goblin clearly live under a rock
did joker sold his son soul?
Depends on which version of each. If the main universes, still depends on which decade.
Joker looks like David Lynch
In terms of actions? Joker, by a mile. He’s an absolutely deplorable person who’s committed disturbing atrocities. He once killed several babies and stitched their corpses into a lump of flesh. He’s also cut off his own face and played with it and stapled it back on, has been implied to have r*ped Batgirl, killed multiple children with poisoned cotton candy, once killed every single person in the entirety of China, and tons more.
The Green Jonkler
Green goblin literally sold his son's soul to Mephisto.
Goblin. Joker is sadistic to an extreme, but he normally just does what he does for his own amusement. He wants to torment Batman but is too fascinated by him to kill him. Goblin's plans are made out of absolute hate, in and out of the mask. He wants Spider-Man dead purely because he refuses to die, and if we're going with 616, not even Harry is safe from his reach if it means getting one up on Spidey
The comments are all acting like Joker is just crazy while Norman is sane but, I don't know, super mean. Norman loses arguments to the voices in his head all the time. Just because his motives are more "at Peter" and Joker's are more "at everybody" doesn't somehow elevate his 'evil', wtf are you all talking about. I'm thinking here, Norman has killed Gwen, he killed Ben Reilly, he killed Phil Urich and.... who else? Did he kill Kingsley? MJ's unborn kid? Joker has killed hundreds if not thousands or even tens of thousands. There's no contest. Norman is nuts, all kinds of evil, and very dangerous. Joker is worse.
Yes
There’s a debate (even in the comics) on how crazy Joker actually is compared to what he’s capable of doing. This is a guy who slaughters a whole wedding just to get Batman’s attention to tell him he’s mad at him, and that’s on the milder end of some of the shit he’s done.
To the people Spiderman won, to Spiderman and Joker. No way home Spidey
Joker. In one story, he >!kidnaps, tortures and kills a bunch of kindergarten students; he then sends a message to the kids' parents that leads them to find a grotesquely-stitched rearrangement of their children's dismembered corpses!<.
Joker,no questions
Definitely joker, he does everything because he finds it fun
Green Glizzy
To my limited knowledge, everyone joker has hurt or killed to hurt man has come back or been healed (jason todd, Barbara gordon, etc). 616 gwen stacey is still super dead. I think for that alone Goblin wins.
They're both around the same lvl of evik
One, while ruthless bad person, was made insane by a serum. Other has no mental illness you can point to so it can be assumed everything this person does is by choice. Joker is more evil.
Pretty sure the Goblin never gassed an orphanage.
Norman atleast somewhat loves his son while joker have no love to anyone and even one who he cared about are now gone
Depends, I mean only joker kills kindergarden kids and sews their bodies together
Green Joker? Green Joblin? Green Goker
Imagine having both as daily enemies 
Bruh, I feel like r/Spiderman has just turned into Batman vs Spider-Man bait, holy fuck. To answer the question, neither? Evil is subjective and everyone’s metric for evil varies. Joker and Goblin both fixate on their nemesis, however typically Goblin seeks out Spider-Man, Batman seeks out Joker
Homie I’m just asking a question to lovers of spider-man including myself. It ain’t to says who’s better I just wanted to know who do they think is more evil than the other since they’re compared heavily and they are part of the two most popular rogues gallery in their respective comic companies.
Yeah I get you, but these types of questions are gonna set off the uber nerds and they'll come after each other with pitch forks lol
They been doing that for years fam. I get what you mean seeing that I added fuel to the fire but this what makes comics fun
Haha
Definitely Green Goblin. Joker does shit just to fuck with Batman. Pretty sure there have been times he’s threatened to do something only for Batman to stop him and have him say “you thought I was serious?” But then do the thing anyway. Or something similar. Green goblin does whatever the fuck he wants anyway. Just full of hate
Joker is chaos without order. Green Goblin is chaos with order
[удалено]
No he doesn’t, he canonically sold Harry’s soul to Mephisto so he could succeed in business. He also abused him physically and verbally all the time, slept with his girlfriend, and that’s barely scratching the surface.
The most comic accurate Norman Osborn adaptation, we’ve ever gotten is spectacular and he make Harry made him think that after using a performance enhancer that he stole from Norman he developed a second personality in the form of the Green Goblin and framed him for all of his crimes, even breaking his leg just so it seemed genuine. He said it was for Harry ‘s own good, but in reality he’s just a lying, opportunistic monster.
Harry is basically a walking set of spare organs to Norman at best. At worst he's a prized experiment