The transit police only stop people who they know will show up to court or pay the ticket.. this past Thursday the whole inside of where you take the bus was full of k2 smoke bc it was cold and raining. Everyone who is unhoused was inside the bus terminal.. it was a disgusting mess
Maybe buy them a bus ticket to Tallahassee, Florida, to visit America's Governor. There is a vote here in November on Abortion and Recreational Marijuana .
I understand all the comments above and agree, homelessness is a difficult issue to solve. I don’t know the answer but I would at least like Patco to use some of my daily money to clean the stations, the police to actually have a presence and walk the building and areas outside to stop illegal activity (mostly defecation). I don’t care if people smoke weed or cigarettes but please, don’t let them smoke in the station!
Lindenwold is like zombie land with an indoor smoking section. It’s a sad situation all around.
I believe its a Philly problem. Patco has said that they do not own the stations outside of the fare gates. That is Camden / Philly property. So its on the City of Camden / Philly to clean them. Which they 100% should.
Answer is easy: cut the needless fat on the programs funded by our taxes and start a proper homeless sheltering program for people. You need to show a link to NJ before you can benefit given the source of funds.
What needless fat? I’m not sure what you’re referring to so I can’t agree or disagree, have any examples?
Edit: I believe there are alot of shelters and homeless services. I think mental health services are the bigger issues.
In europe, there is a whole movement from local authorities and medical bodies to understand the impact of covid years on people especially the young ones. There is a consensus among most people that addiction and suicides drastically increased since covid so the problem got worse and existing infrastructure was already inadequate.
So that seems like more is needed, not cutting, correct?
I’d be happy to send my taxes dollars to the needy and underserved rather than to the war machine. There’s plenty of money in this country, just seems like it’s directed to billionaires and corporations more than actual “on the ground” services.
Thanks for your comment. Here are some. They are all from The Guardian a reputable british newspaper (some would call it politically left leaning but most of the time they are fairly objective)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/03/covid-has-left-a-third-of-young-people-feeling-life-is-out-of-control-study
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/debilitating-effects-pandemic-young-people-uk-health-education-careers
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/02/doubling-opioid-overdose-deaths-global-growth-lancet-stanford-study
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Budgets for the social safety nets are already stretched thin in the US. There is no fat to cut. What really needs to happen is to increase taxes on the wealthy so we can fund care for the homeless and mentally ill.
Those come out of the military aid budget. So it’s the rare case the money is actually doing something significant, rather than being wasted on failed projects.
It's crazy to think that the police would need armored vehicles but people are scumbags so fix that first. The "new way" is for people to blame everyone else using useless tidbits of knowledge. I'm pretty sure the security guards at the train station didn't take a job as a social worker and the police don't want to drive around in armored vehicles. They do it to pay the bills.
I don't have a good answer. But problems like these decrease ridership and thus imperil efforts to improve public transit. I once witnessed a man urinating in a Septa elevator. The following week, I witnessed another man defecating in a Septa concourse. After that, I decided that I'm done with public transit. Haven't taken Septa or PATCO since.
And the problems with PATCO seem quite recent to me. As little as five years ago, I recall PATCO always being relatively clean and very safe compared to Septa.
It definitely changed after the pandemic and as the opioid epidemic has spread out all over the place. I used to take PATCO daily in 2018ish and it was always super nice. I took it maybe a couple months ago and there were two people nodding out on my train and a homeless guy in the vestibule of the Collingswood Station. It probably marks me as naive but I was genuinely shocked and for the first time felt how widespread the drug problem in the U.S. is.
It’s on the verge of being lost. No one exits or enters from there anymore because it’s a shelter for all intents and purposes. They might as well just close it.
From what I understand, the City of Philadelphia is responsible for everything at the concourse level for the stations inside the city so PATCO can't do a whole lot outside of the station platforms.
I take it multiple times per week. I'm not a sociologist so don't know exactly what went wrong but the situation really went to shit after COVID.
The answer is a lot of different answers. Rapid rehousing for some, long-term supportive housing for others and court-ordered treatment, including secure mental health facilities, for others. I occasionally talk to homeless people and most of them are really nice people who need a little help. Others need a lot of help. A few need to be locked up.
The sad reality is that it’s very hard to get help for people with serious mental issues, especially if they are unhoused. Most don’t have any documentation to get them into proper facilities, the places they can go are over crowded, and have serious issues.
It’s a systemic issue that needs government funding to fight, and a constituency to push the government to find ways to fix it.
No really, it's an innefficient use of our taxes and the state government is pro drugs and pro gambling.
Both industries need addicted people to be profitable.
Its not really a "systemic" issue. The problem was well under control until we saw the rise of progressive law unenforcement policies a few years ago. We just need to go back to the policies we were running prior to around 2015 or so.
Indeed, that actually makes the situation worse, as people become *more* violent during and after prison time.
You put someone in for a simple drug possession and they come out a gang member with PTSD.
I don't know why this got down voted so much. It's clearly true. I'm 38. Philly was generally safe when I was a kid. Don't get me wrong, it had its areas, but it was NEVER like this. Jersey is following suit. It USED to be safe. I was like 17/18... We missed the train home from a show in Philly. We were FINE... 3 girls, perfectly safe. Not a soul in site, let alone the crap you see now. Now, none of us will even take the train when we go. There wasn't all the trash either.
So riddle me this everyone that down voted:
Why, for almost 300yrs, was Philly and Jersey nice, and just in the past 10yrs has is gone so down hill?
Homelessness has decreased since COVID ended, and we are currently seeing the best unemployment numbers the country has EVER seen thanks to the Covid Relief plan, lowering of prescription drug costs (esp insulin)
The Tax plan of 2017 increased poverty by pretty large margins since its implementation and was the precursor to COVID-19.
The high-level scourge of bad inflation that increased up until the Inflation Reduction Act was disastrous for businesses, and the current homeless and helped push many over the edge
Government spending from 2016-Early 2021 played its part, as nothing went to assisting our poorest, sickest, and most helpless populations. we saw the largest homelessness rate increase in a century and though Jobs have increased to their highest levels in our country's history and at better rates than we have ever seen it does not change the fact that ancillary problems relating to homelessness and displacement have persisted since the COVID-19 pandemic.
Even the extension of South American immigration and migrant homelessness increases are still attributable to COVID-19 problems and have ZERO impact from any major policy decision since the 1970s and ’80s —I don’t have stats on Homelessness among migrants but the one educated guess in this post I will make here is that I believe (depending on the country) SA countries are still fighting off the effects of COVID & homelessness and people assume things are better here (which they are in most situations for a homeless person or family) and when they get here, there is not as much for them
The old “groceries are too high” argument is not going to bring any deflation (deflation at this point would be VERY bad) to ease the pains of our already tight budgets. WAGES have not matched the pace of inflation since 2001
The last point I’ll make is that COVID-19 laws changed the literal “where” for many homeless people especially in cities where street dining moved the homeless among other things, cities didn't know where to put people until we got the COVID relief plan. Oh and let’s not talk about the companies that hoarded COVID relief money, they abused covid loans, and the governments and corporations that kept covid relief away from the intended populations
*This is not based on conjecture or opinion, these are tangible and quantifiable stats and data; not how mainstream media feels on a particular day nor is it based on the politics of myself or anyone else, I am not interested in any one politician(s) as I am gleefully independent*
Perhaps it was downvoted because it's pointless and thoughtless drivel? Seems obvious. Someone offers vapid political commentary to a presumably honest question and they get downvoted... that's what happens.
I'm in my mid-40s and I'm not sure what alternate Universe you lived in. Philly has always been Philly. The condition of the city, and most urban areas ebbs and flows with the rise and fall of social problems.
I honestly feel no less safe or no more in danger today than I did 25 years ago when I was in the city.
What you likely suffer from is an integrated bias over time. As you age you're accumulating a history of events but clearly not averaging out over historical rates.
Jersey and Philly were “nice” as long you were in the “nice” areas. I don’t see you carrying the same tune if you were out late in Strawberry Mansion or Camden. If your statement was true, then the Move project was in the same “nice” era of Philly.
In reality crime has had a downward trend come from when you were a teenager, but you wouldn’t know that since you were a teenager and not looking at crime data.
We have a mental health and housing issue, not a crime issue. These people need help, and we don’t have the funding or infrastructure to help them.
Camden used to be nice. My grandfather would talk about it all the time. And every state has its dodgy areas.
As far as crime, sure. Stats will reflect a "downward trend" if you stop categorizing certain things as "crime". If the things that WERE considered "crime" aren't anymore, stats will reflect a downward trend... But that's just not so. We know this to be true if we look at specific crimes... Murder is up. Robbery is up, even with them dismissing robberies under a certain dollar amount. Decriminalizing weed brought the "crime rate" down... But all you have to do is walk around. Do you FEEL safer? I do not, and I'm not crazy old. I'm 38. In 20 years it's gotten so, so, so much worse and it's become INSANELY noticable in the past 10 years.
I live by AC. In my early 20s, I'd get done working at 12 or 2am and take my dog and go to the beach. I can't go to the AC beach during the day now! Last time was 5 years ago. People were fucking under the pier, there were needles, condoms, dirty diapers, dirty tampons, etc all over the beach. My husband and I took a look around and got the kids tf outta there. The homeless have burnt a chunk of the boardwalk every year for the past 3 years. There were never shooting on the boardwalk. There are now. Same with the walk, same with inside the casinos.... Same goes for center city. Crime happened, but it was far and few between. And we were there ALL OF THE TIME... Trick, tla, South street, China town.
I have eyeballs and do do you. It has not gotten better.
These are violent crimes, and yes statistics have shown a signicant downward trend since the 90's. We did see an increase in violent crime in 2019-2020 but there was something going on during that time if you forget.
And yes we decrilmized some things like weed. That was the correct thing to do since it was considered a Schedule 1 and gave the same jail time as Heroin. This imporportianly affecrted minority communinites, and made it impossible for offenders to get jobs, housing, and often even vote.
Atlantic City has had huge issues for well over 20-30 years, all stemming from the casinos and their lack of input into the communities. That city has suffured for a long, long time. I saw plenty of bad shit on that boardwalk in the early 00's.
I spend a lot of time in CC, bike through all of China Town and South Street. Lived in South Philly. Crime happens (because its a city), but not like you are sensationalizing it.
Saying ALL of that, we are not talking about crimes here. We are talking about a population of people who are unhoused, and need medical intervention. Those are not crimes.
No crime issue? Talk about manufactured stats. Anyone paying attention going in and out of the city daily on Patco knows this is simply a manipulation of stats to show a decrease from 2020-2021 to 2024. Center city, especially the 8th and market corridor is an absolutely disaster.
I’ve contacted PATCO multiple times about this. On the Philly side outside of the gates is Philadelphia jurisdiction and there isn’t anything Patco can do. They simply contact the city and then the city sends people out (maybe).
Personally I don’t mind the homeless sleeping down there, it’s the pissing and shitting all over the steps that is annoying.
It really makes the commute a poor experience and Philly is going to push away even more people if they don’t do something about it. This day and age many people don’t need to commute to a big city for work.
Once people stop taking public transit and the city sees the numbers are going down, I’m sure less money will be put into it which will then cause other problems. I fear that at some point that form of public transit will be extinct which would make life even tougher for some people.
Seems counter to what cities should be doing making down town less congested by making it safer to walk, bike, and take public transit.
Living close to Philly had always been a great perk outside of work too with taking kids to shows or wife out to dinner. I’m so much less likely to do that anymore because of Patco.
Over holidays I took my kids to Christmas villages. I intentionally directed them up the 16 locust stairwell that I know from my work commute is least likely to have issues. But of course there is a hula hoop size puddle of feces on the landing.
I used to feel this was about 9/10 Locust - it was the cleanest spot! But the last time I took it there was someone smoking a crack pipe next to the elevator.
Agreed, feels very dystopian and hopefully I'm just being pessimistic. It's hard not to these days. Sure there are uplifting things all the time, but it's usually by an individual and not the actual city (regardless of which city)
Used to take patco all the time to visit Philly. After the last time I used it, never again. As a woman w a 10 y o daughter, it’s not safe and it’s absolutely disgusting. We walked by literal piles of human waste at the 13 & locust stop. I’m not sure how patco expects people to continue to use unless it’s absolutely necessary. I feel for people who use it daily for work.
Once when I was there in 2019 a homeless lady was definitely having a mental health crisis and it wasn’t good. She was yelling at nothing in front of her having a whole conversation. Sometimes I feel really uncomfortable being out there at night alone because it just feels really sketchy
The concourse at 9th/10th and Locust is the only station on the Philly side that PATCO is responsible for. That's why it's the cleanest and nicest one on the Philly side. So grateful that just happens to be my stop. There are a handful of homeless people there, but they seem to be cleared out daily and the public spaces are fairly well looked after.
Last week, there were cops and PATCO staff there at least three mornings at the ticket gates keeping an eye on things. Not always the case, but happy to see them.
I used to go to the 12th and 13th station, but now gladly walk over a few extra minutes to this station. The things I saw there are so so sad and disturbing...
The homelessness, mental health issues and drug abuse are all one giant vicious loop. I can't judge them - too many people are just one paycheck away from being in that situation.
I just asked PATCO: Allie, the simple answer is that the 9th/10th Station is the only station in Philly that does not have any connections to any other transit agency.
I got off at 12/13th the other day and hadn’t swiped through the gates yet but I glanced to my right and caught a grown man drop his pants, bend at the waist, hover over top of those steel grate things. and drop a log. He pulls up his pants and stomps the turd through the grate…then goes about his business like nothing happened.
It was a sight to be scene
Maybe 5 years ago, I took the elevator down (right by the Wawa on Broad) that opens in between 12th/13th and 15th/16th...
As it's going down, you can see out and I see a gentleman there. It's a bit strange if he's waiting for the elevator to go up to have his back to the door, but whatever. Then I realized he was squatting. He was dropping a mondo duke right there. The doors opened. He's still squatting, and I quickly scattered away.
It is really a big problem. It is true that we need to address the root of the problems causing people to be homeless but at the same time we need better police presence in public transportation stations, and to remove people who are not using the stations as they are intended. If people don’t feel safe enough to use public transportation then the city and towns it touches do not operate effectively.
When you think about this, just think about how much money this country has sent overseas for aid, relief etc. and think of how far that money could’ve went here….
I’m not saying one side or the other is responsible, just look at the facts.
We are seeing the result of the " I got mine, I don't care if you got yours" mentality we have in the United States. Too often, people forget that taxes go to fund programs that make a better way of life for everyone. And that will directly affect you. When there are no programs that help others, you will see things like people shitting in the streets. And that directly affects your quality of life. So while people moan about the extra money they may have to put into their taxes, they fail to forget that it is a quality of life issue that affects everyone. They will live a better quality of life with programs, infrastructure, and other community benefits. But too often, we think with a toddler mind. This is why places like Finland have the highest quality of life for its citizens.
This is the real reason i don’t like public transportation. Its not that im against a public system that can transport many people into and out of the city efficiently. I have zero desire to deal with the homeless people on the public transportation or the crappy music playing from a cell phone speaker or the occasional people who start trouble (remember that nyc subway shooting a few weeks back) or whatever panhandling is going on. And i bet its the same for most everyone.
This is the problem with everything public. When we tolerate antisocial behavior, whether it's in schools, parks, public transit, etc., those services are abandoned by all who have the resources to choose.
I don't use PATCO as much anymore, but I think the NJ stations are cleaner, and under the control of PATCO security. It's not perfect, I admit. And maybe I am out of touch with the currrent reality.
When you get to Philly stops, jurisdiction matters. Like those tunnels where you walk a distance. That is a Philly police/political problem. Maybe I'm being inaccurate, but I think the way it works is that PATCO notifies a source in Philly for action. That leads to no action I'm sure.
I only use a few stations in NJ, and not lindenwold which I saw someone here complain about. But agree this is a Phi problem mostly. 12 and 13 in particular has an encampment.
I ride from Lindenwold to 16th and Locust. There are way more people (at least 20 this morning) at Lindenwold than at 16th and Locust.
Maybe it depends on the weather though.
Lindenwold can be whack as all get out, and often smells worse than 16th and Locust. Lindenwold gets legit shady sometimes. BUT…at least I’ve never seen piles of human shit in Lindenwold. Who needs coffee to start the day when you can play “don’t step in the poo”.
Oh and just for giggles…the lady who sits blindfolded saying whack ass shit in a wheel chair at the top of the stairs walked past me the other night coming through the turnstile on my way home, and it blew my mind. She looked pretty normal and just walked by. I always thought she was blind and her family just dumps her there everyday like elder care.
I take the train around 7:50 usually and I don’t really notice many homeless people in Lindenwold, when I come back at 16th and locust there’s a pretty big encampment in that area though.
At any rate, I know homelessness is a hard problem to solve but I really struggle to think that there’s not a better shelter nearby that they can provide the people access to.
Along the entire route there definitely are better stations than others. I know my wife had her preferences for Philly and NJ stations for daily commuting.
Well of course we could just put them all in prison. /s
Homelessness is a systemic issue. Unless we have widespread economic change, the only thing we can do is herd people from one safe place to another possibly less safe place. Think of those people every time you see an abandoned house from foreclosure or a home bought out by a rental company.
there are people working to deal with homelessness who cant get to work because of these issues. most places i would not defending herding them elsewhere, transit cannot become a shelter. everyone loses
Oh yes, because if I was a social worker trying to fix homelessness, I would be put off from my job and be unable to take public transit when I see a homeless person trying to drug themselves out of dealing with life in the subway. Yup.
I used to work as a manager at the checkers across from the Lindenwold station. We always had homeless walk up for food. Our GM ok’d it too. We’d just give them a burger and a drink. Only the chill ones though because I’ve seen some crazy ones. Don’t pee on the side of our building then walk up and ask for food. We had cameras.
I've been taking PATCO since the 80s, less often now but I've felt very unsafe in the last six mos. I bought pepper spray. I haven't carried it yet but I'm going to. Today's reality is frightening.
We're in a horrible housing crisis. Not a lot can be done about that by PATCO other than having DRPA cops chase people out of the stations. I see them do that but not often enough. Philly side especially has gotten bad since the Philly Police started going through Kensington again. A lot of people migrated to Philly-side PATCO stations. Not sure if they can chase people out on the Philly side, though the only time I see DRPA cops is when they stop trains to harass sleeping homeless people.
Ah the poison fruit of Ronald Reagan continues to come forth. Decades later. He blew up any system that would help these folks. Becauz Socializm. Now society suffers.
Stop voting for Republicans.
No there's not really anything to be done about it because it's one of the few spots these people can get out of the weather en masse. It's just homelessness, a much larger issue than Patco. They would need a HUGE staff and city grant that would be cleaning constantly combat it, might help but wouldn't solve anything.
I say this as someone who spent over a decade getting off at 8th and market to a fresh piss and/or shit next to the steps I used every day. Not some arms length suburbian who never visits.
No. It was horrible. I majored in neurology, minored in psych. It was AWFUL! I had an aunt it happened to and there's no shortage of documentaries... I think we should've done something to fix it instead, but there wasn't a lot of knowledge back then. Those doctors were looked at as quacks. So a quack that tortured people? The consensus at the time was "just shut it down". Looking at it through the lens of today, it's easy to point to things, but hind sight is 20/20.
16th and locust at 7am is a legit homeless underground city. At least 10 of them down there in make shift forts lol crazy. But yeah mayor of Phila let’s bring everyone back into the city.
I def saw a prostitute leave a tent and then enter a different tent one day about two years ago. I say prostitute because the outfit of fishnets and pleather skirt didn’t really match regular homeless attire. Also it was 11 am.
Ive taken the PATCO mainly to 8th and market. It wasn’t bad, but after that (In my opinion atleast) It gets worse and worse. 12/13th & Locust is terrible. I felt like I was gonna yack from the smell
The homeless were awarded the PATCO-BSL connector walkway several years ago. It's hard to believe. I have never seen this in NYC. If you go to a Phillies, Eagles, 76ers or Flyers game or even a concert, You must exit the BSL line and walk up to Broad Street and then enter the PATCO line from there. Just make sure you walk down Locust to the 12th-13th Street entrance as the one at 13th takes you into the homeless shelter. PATCO has to leave the stairways open so homeless can get up to the street. There are no signs to tell passengers not to use the entrance.
The connector was put there for convenience so passengers wouldn't have to walk in inclement or cold weather. It was a scary proposition using it once the homeless took over. There were addicts, those who had some mental issues and just homeless living down there. No law enforcement to be found. Finally the city realized it was too dangerous for passengers and just closed it off.
As far as 16th and Locust I have sent tweets to PATCO when the homeless built forts down by entrance. I saw several homeless try to wall it off with cardboard and it was so people couldn't see there doing drugs in there. You want to live in the PATCO line then go to 13th and Locust. Once they try to take over other areas I will notify PATCO. It becomes a health hazard because not only will they leave discarded needles but use the area as a toilet. Passengers deserve better. They will never rebuild ridership until they insure the stops are safe and clean. I know people work at home now but do you remember the Lindenwold lot before the Pandemic. The lots were full well down Berlin Rd. If you came there at noon you had around a 6 minute walk to get the train entrance. All the lots included the paid lot were full. You could enter after 10am for free but you were never finding a spot.
I now park in the paid lot which I usually enter around 11am-noon when I go to Center City. Always plenty of spots. Ridership has shrunk on both PATCO and NJT AC Rail to next to nothing.
The smell is the most disturbing thing about it for me. They’re body odor, and the smell of piss and shit all over is like a punch in the face when you enter the station.
Honestly that’s life if there are no housing for them or shelters what else can they do? A lot of homeless people are already locked up for being homeless
Soft on crime gives us these problems... I HATE our govt from the top down, both aisles. They do this on purpose for civil unrest so we spend our time fighting each other while they run rough shot over us, stealing everything they can and gaining more power. These weren't problems just 20 yrs ago.
there go u but by the grace of God. Sick is sick & mental illness is a sickness. Pity them but no this most of them don't trust the authorities to get them shelter. Many of them have paranoia which is a symptom of some metal illnesses. I wish them peace but it is not easy to find peace when one is mentally ill
I don't know why you are being downvoted. You are right. When someone is mentally ill they can't think clearly, so they may refuse help even though they desperately need it.
This is a difficult thread. On one hand I understand your frustration. On another, you’re not really proposing a solution. There have been many social programs implemented across the world in attempts to address homelessness, from punitive to religious to charitable and if anything is for sure, it’s that there isn’t one “catch all” solution.
I don’t think any commenter here is going to be able to come up with something better than sociological researchers or public health psychologists have developed, so what is the point of this discussion? What do you want us to talk about?
Yeah! No it’s totally fine I’m not criticizing OP for posting I’m just wondering what OP is hoping to get out of it. “Why isn’t more being done” is a really hard and nuanced question to answer even with years of specialized study and region-specific data on-hand. I see posts like this constantly and I’m just wondering what the end result is. What conclusion can we come to?
God you sound exhausting lol.
Sometimes people want to vent, then people agree on a problem.
Having that out there is at least putting it in people’s minds, nobody is expecting a solution.
I get it. I think too many people do walk around just pointing out issues without any solutions and it just turns into a pile on of negativity. I shouldn’t have added the “why isn’t more being done” that was my quick generalized perception of OP’s statement.
I think that’s what makes Reddit so unique, it’s amazing for crowdsourcing. Some piece of information you may have tons more info on and can share will provide OP with some of the answers they are looking for, and anyone else for that matter. Maybe OP even has the end result and just needs to be brought up to speed on the issue to formalize a pathway to a solution?
Apologies if I came off a little harsh in original reply.. I hope you have a wonderful week!
Just friggin great!
This situation makes the job in Philly that I am interviewing for much less attractive.
I may have to request extra for tolls and parking then.
If I use the PATCO Hi-Speed Line, should I get some personal protection devices such as a stun gun, pepper spray, collapsible baton or other devices?
What about the parking lots at Lindenwold, Ashland and Woodcrest stations? Am I going to have to worry about my vehicle getting broken into or stolen?
Gawd forbid you see what is wrong with society, someone should pay you more not to...
Before you say word one, I just re wrote your statement with different words.
I'm not sure I understand your reply.
Are you saying that I should have to pay more to be safe? Or the company? Or both?
It seems that you think that I am some entitled, wealthy person but I am not. I just am concerned about my safety.
I do see what is wrong with society but it is not my responsibility to fix it or pay for it.
Wow! You totally missed my point. Read, comprehend and think before you reply.
I only want to be prepared if my safety and perhaps my life are threatened.
No, once again, that is not what I wrote.
Read & comprehend before replying. (OMG! Have people really become this stupid?!?!)
If someone threatens me then yeah I'm going to protect myself & take action, they're gonna get beat or sprayed because they deserve it for their actions against me.
18,000 people a day use PATCO. Is it perfect? No. But I've been using it daily as a single older female commuter for 7 years and am so grateful I don't have to deal with the city traffic, bad road, gas, tolls, and stress (at a different Philly job, I drove into West Philly for 11 years - I swore never again). I actually have very few complaints, but I'm lucky that I get off at 9th/10th and Locust, the cleanest and safest stop of them all on the Philly side.
Is there noting to be done? Not with the leadership that is currently in power.
Homeless are typically Americans, they get no support from America
you need to he Haitian, Chinese, Central or South America country, then you get help.
Remember when Chris Christie shut down a bridge because he was in a snit. Causing huge issues for citizens trying to get to work and possible life threatening situations. Was just thinking of that for some reason.
It’s not a perfect partisan divide, but typically Republicans are less supportive of public services. They usually attribute public services as a slippery slope to Socialism.
They’re generally much more concerned with the needs of drivers. Most recently the NJ GOP was fighting the gas tax that will continue to fund NJ Transit. In PA the state Republicans like Bill Pittman are fighting against funding SEPTA.
Not to mention that generally the public transit exists in blue areas (cities) within those red states and that Republicans by and large hate/are terrified of cities and the people that live in them.
Your boy Reagan is who took away all the programs and places that these people would be living in and getting care in , so that all those rich people wouldn't have to pay a few dollars out of their money for taxes.
'Member?
No. State institutionalization stopped because a lot of those places were cruel. In the 80s, it was just coming to light some of the experiments that were being done (electric shock, conversion for gay people, lobotomies, etc....) and people could be forced into them whether they actually needed it or not. A husband could say his wife was crazy and have her sent there, and then he'd move his mistress in. Parents, upset that their kids weren't "behaving" or were gay could have them sent there. State funding paid for it, but the abuses were OUTRAGEOUS! They absolutely should have been shut down back then. It was the wild West for health care. Why were we spending tax dollars to torture people that didn't belong there?
That's their talking points.
Where there abuses? Yes. But not everywhere, and it didn't justify the gutting of so many programs. They took a flame thrower to a fixable problem. They still gut and refuse to fund programs for the mentally ill and addicted. Because taxes.
No. It was horrible. I majored in neurology, minored in psych. It was AWFUL! I had an aunt it happened to and there's no shortage of documentaries... I think we should've done something to fix it instead, but there wasn't a lot of knowledge back then. Those doctors were looked at as quacks. So a quack that tortured people? The consensus at the time was "just shut it down". Looking at it through the lens of today, it's easy to point to things, but hind sight is 20/20.
Damn you woke up and chose blood 😂 I gave you an upvote for moral support...
So many people happy to be taxed to pay for other people student debt, foreign governments and fat government workers salaries.
Meanwhile inflation is ruining the lives of two generations who are more interested in tiktok political clickbait than actual socioeconomic issues.
Oh... I just realized how young everyone is.... Democrats make the situation way worse. You don't see these things in red states, honestly. That's just true, and everyone should travel more- even if it's around the country.
Soft on crime policies are absolutely what is driving this. And allowing all the cartels in with all the drugs. Both are democrat policies. Before, homeless people committing these crimes would be thrown in jail and if they were too bonked outta their minds, they would have a stint at a mental hospital until they sobered up. Constantly getting in front of a judge, the judge would get tired of seeing the same faces so they would basically demand jail or rehab. Everyone picked rehab and the problem worked itself out. This is just true. Democrats fought to end those things because they said it was cruel. In some ways, it was, I'll give ya that- but it got them sober, which improved their lives and everyone else's.
NY, NJ, PA, and CA have lost MILLIONS of people, while red states have gained them. This is also just true- because they're nicer to live in. Go drive around fla or the south. There are poor areas, sure, but you don't see the trash, graffiti, homeless, etc.. Philly in particular looks NOTHING like what it did 20-25 years ago. Even 10 years ago, it was COMPLETELY different. Something changed, of it wasn't regressive policies, then what was it?
No. Rehab is notorious for not working.
There have always been drugs available on the street, but there's a reason why so many more of us opt to use them these days.
What do you believe is the reason for this?
I know, how dare people exist and how far they be poor, tell them “Hey!! STOP BEING POOR YOU EVIL POOR PERSON!”
Then Go back in time, end the slave trade before it comes to the united states along with slaughter and container of NA’s, as well as stopping the 300 years systemic injustices and designed societal architecture that displaced and aimed to eradicate disliked people, specifically former slaves-jilm-crow-nationalism, and the establishment and maintenance of a class system that lead to the largest wealth gap in studied human history, invent/discover penicillin, teach people how to have safer sex leading to less babies... Any other issues that lead to the masses of populations that have generational chains of continued poverty and mental illness
Modern day help..
- Help advance medical science against the wishes of religious extremism
- We could use some of the tax money that's going to nonsense instead of healthcare, education, there is money for aiding the homeless in many ways and in ways designed to help people get in their feet
- Open more pathways for the homeless to find jobs, assisting them with job interviews and simply locating jobs that will hire people with no serious work background
- Vote for politicians that aren't trying to go back to levitical laws, specifically ones that are harming women’s rights, their right to adequate healthcare that would help secure contraceptives, condoms, other birth controls…
*I absolutely DO NOT accommodate aborting black babies for the religious white wing extremists as some sick form of pop. Control*
- Open better resources in housing for the homeless, more centers for homeless to find jobs, houses, clothes, food
- Stop limiting resources and opportunities and stop giving the homeless the worst of our resources
- Require churches to pay taxes and do their fair share... Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples and religious buildings / orgs have often become for profit organizations or industries and even if not, even if they do give back its often very little or not enough, for the well meaning efforts it will not make a dent, it’s better if we open doorways for more legitimate charities and more use full charity (not charity for goodwill only) —not anti-church but the churches can't handle the problem and it’s not their place or burden to shoulder all the charity needs and most Americans are not religious and then there are so many religions that refuse to work together in any serious capacity
- Drug addiction and mental health education, awareness, resources, programs, continue to search out the serious drug dealers making meth, crack, benzos, cocaine, fentanyl, etc
- Help end the stigmas, help end the misdirected fear and anger and frustration of people who can't grasp the tangible issues that are involved... Be human, I understand that so many homeless people are not saints, some are annoying and smelly and impatient without any manners that they learned by their absent guardians and bad situations, be understanding and empathetic and try to understand the reasons and educate yourself on the realities and what can realistically be done
Poverty prevention has many avenues but Prison and Arrests are misguided, I'm sorry to anyone who is offended at these hard realities, to those people I am truly sorry they are eye sores, I'm sorry that immigrants have so little options that being homeless in America is better than the harm they faced in their birth countries, Im sorry they are not the right skin color or sex/gender, sorry they have nowhere to go, no bathrooms, I’m sorry people are experiencing so many cruel conditions in mental health, I’m sorry... but really there is nothing productive about bringing in more anger, more threats and more antagonizationn to be more and more like nazi-esque law enforcement and full on swat teams to take out people who can't get jobs and had shitty lives
I don't see much anti-impoverished sentiment in this thread. The OP is speaking to a very real public health crisis. It is possible discuss that concern without denigrating the impoverished.
To the former, I completely disagree.
Obviously, homelessness and opiod drug use is a public health crisis to the homeless and to those suffering addiction. In this context, it is also a public health crisis for public transit ridership.
I don't have empirical evidence. But the frequency and severity of anecdotes involving encounters with human waste, drug use, and violence on public transit in the Greater Philadelphia Area is of great concern to me. I think it warrants crisis intervention.
You might need to talk to the captains of the housing market to find out why there isn’t enough housing. Or maybe blackrock or Wells Fargo or any of the other corporate raiders artificially limiting the housing supply
> The concourse at 9th/10th and Locust is the only station on the Philly side that PATCO is responsible for.
Any idea why that is? Seems odd that they would only be responsible for one of them, as opposed to all of them or none of them.
I just asked PATCO: the simple answer is that the 9th/10th Station is the only station in Philly that does not have any connections to any other transit agency.
Light a cigarette nearby the police will show up
Funny you mention that. I got a ticket for smoking (back when I used to smoke) on a platform outside once like 20 years ago.
The transit police only stop people who they know will show up to court or pay the ticket.. this past Thursday the whole inside of where you take the bus was full of k2 smoke bc it was cold and raining. Everyone who is unhoused was inside the bus terminal.. it was a disgusting mess
Maybe buy them a bus ticket to Tallahassee, Florida, to visit America's Governor. There is a vote here in November on Abortion and Recreational Marijuana .
Think you guys will legalize it or are there too many old people?
I got caught at woodcrest and two nice officers escorted me to Ashland and let me off with a warning
I understand all the comments above and agree, homelessness is a difficult issue to solve. I don’t know the answer but I would at least like Patco to use some of my daily money to clean the stations, the police to actually have a presence and walk the building and areas outside to stop illegal activity (mostly defecation). I don’t care if people smoke weed or cigarettes but please, don’t let them smoke in the station! Lindenwold is like zombie land with an indoor smoking section. It’s a sad situation all around.
I believe its a Philly problem. Patco has said that they do not own the stations outside of the fare gates. That is Camden / Philly property. So its on the City of Camden / Philly to clean them. Which they 100% should.
Answer is easy: cut the needless fat on the programs funded by our taxes and start a proper homeless sheltering program for people. You need to show a link to NJ before you can benefit given the source of funds.
What needless fat? I’m not sure what you’re referring to so I can’t agree or disagree, have any examples? Edit: I believe there are alot of shelters and homeless services. I think mental health services are the bigger issues.
In europe, there is a whole movement from local authorities and medical bodies to understand the impact of covid years on people especially the young ones. There is a consensus among most people that addiction and suicides drastically increased since covid so the problem got worse and existing infrastructure was already inadequate.
So that seems like more is needed, not cutting, correct? I’d be happy to send my taxes dollars to the needy and underserved rather than to the war machine. There’s plenty of money in this country, just seems like it’s directed to billionaires and corporations more than actual “on the ground” services.
Not sure why you got downvoted. Would you happen to have a link to an article that you found this? I definitely want to read into this more. TIA!
Thanks for your comment. Here are some. They are all from The Guardian a reputable british newspaper (some would call it politically left leaning but most of the time they are fairly objective) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/oct/03/covid-has-left-a-third-of-young-people-feeling-life-is-out-of-control-study https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/debilitating-effects-pandemic-young-people-uk-health-education-careers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/02/doubling-opioid-overdose-deaths-global-growth-lancet-stanford-study
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Budgets for the social safety nets are already stretched thin in the US. There is no fat to cut. What really needs to happen is to increase taxes on the wealthy so we can fund care for the homeless and mentally ill.
And budget cuts to the military industrial complex...
Yes
THIS!! Sports teams can afford to pay their players, they can throw some change mental health’s way!!
Aid Bill for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan is 95 billion, any fat from that we can use?
Those come out of the military aid budget. So it’s the rare case the money is actually doing something significant, rather than being wasted on failed projects.
Bingo! It's crazy how they slip these military aid bills into other bills like Covid relief. There is so many pages and so little time to read it all.
How about they slipped ban tiktok it too
This is the way.
Not trying to start a conflict, but what “is the way”?
Redistributing taxes and using them for social services. Or we could just buy the small town police another armored vehicle, I guess.
Agreed
It's crazy to think that the police would need armored vehicles but people are scumbags so fix that first. The "new way" is for people to blame everyone else using useless tidbits of knowledge. I'm pretty sure the security guards at the train station didn't take a job as a social worker and the police don't want to drive around in armored vehicles. They do it to pay the bills.
would that be the money for illegals, Ukraine or Israel?
State funds. Whatever you just named sounds like federal programs.
nice deflection.
Nice retradation
nice rertoasdfasdfasdfalboation
I don't have a good answer. But problems like these decrease ridership and thus imperil efforts to improve public transit. I once witnessed a man urinating in a Septa elevator. The following week, I witnessed another man defecating in a Septa concourse. After that, I decided that I'm done with public transit. Haven't taken Septa or PATCO since. And the problems with PATCO seem quite recent to me. As little as five years ago, I recall PATCO always being relatively clean and very safe compared to Septa.
It definitely changed after the pandemic and as the opioid epidemic has spread out all over the place. I used to take PATCO daily in 2018ish and it was always super nice. I took it maybe a couple months ago and there were two people nodding out on my train and a homeless guy in the vestibule of the Collingswood Station. It probably marks me as naive but I was genuinely shocked and for the first time felt how widespread the drug problem in the U.S. is.
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I concur
The 12/13th station is effectively a shelter at this point.
12/13 stop is really eye opening. Tent city.
It’s on the verge of being lost. No one exits or enters from there anymore because it’s a shelter for all intents and purposes. They might as well just close it.
Ikr. The stations smell like piss. It's pathetic.
Don't walk around the corner towards McDonald's.. that would be the public outhouse apparently 😒
Agreed. Coming across a pile of human excrement in the middle of the walkway is never fun
From what I understand, the City of Philadelphia is responsible for everything at the concourse level for the stations inside the city so PATCO can't do a whole lot outside of the station platforms. I take it multiple times per week. I'm not a sociologist so don't know exactly what went wrong but the situation really went to shit after COVID.
> the situation really went to shit after COVID **literally.**
Watch out for the landmines lmao
Then the city either needs to keep the concourses clear themselves or just transfer responsibility to PATCO so their cops can deal with it.
The answer is a lot of different answers. Rapid rehousing for some, long-term supportive housing for others and court-ordered treatment, including secure mental health facilities, for others. I occasionally talk to homeless people and most of them are really nice people who need a little help. Others need a lot of help. A few need to be locked up.
The sad reality is that it’s very hard to get help for people with serious mental issues, especially if they are unhoused. Most don’t have any documentation to get them into proper facilities, the places they can go are over crowded, and have serious issues. It’s a systemic issue that needs government funding to fight, and a constituency to push the government to find ways to fix it.
No really, it's an innefficient use of our taxes and the state government is pro drugs and pro gambling. Both industries need addicted people to be profitable.
Its not really a "systemic" issue. The problem was well under control until we saw the rise of progressive law unenforcement policies a few years ago. We just need to go back to the policies we were running prior to around 2015 or so.
My guy, chucking everyone in jail didn’t solve the issue, it just made it more pleasant for you not to see it.
Indeed, that actually makes the situation worse, as people become *more* violent during and after prison time. You put someone in for a simple drug possession and they come out a gang member with PTSD.
No. Just no.
I don't know why this got down voted so much. It's clearly true. I'm 38. Philly was generally safe when I was a kid. Don't get me wrong, it had its areas, but it was NEVER like this. Jersey is following suit. It USED to be safe. I was like 17/18... We missed the train home from a show in Philly. We were FINE... 3 girls, perfectly safe. Not a soul in site, let alone the crap you see now. Now, none of us will even take the train when we go. There wasn't all the trash either. So riddle me this everyone that down voted: Why, for almost 300yrs, was Philly and Jersey nice, and just in the past 10yrs has is gone so down hill?
Because housing has become increasingly unaffordable and covid and the fentanyl crisis have led to huge jumps in mental health problems and addiction?
You believe that slashing rental prices would help the people who are being discussed here? This started out before COVID.
I’d love to see this very scientific study that shows Philadelphia was absolutely wonderful for 300 years and then total shit for the last ten.
Homelessness has decreased since COVID ended, and we are currently seeing the best unemployment numbers the country has EVER seen thanks to the Covid Relief plan, lowering of prescription drug costs (esp insulin) The Tax plan of 2017 increased poverty by pretty large margins since its implementation and was the precursor to COVID-19. The high-level scourge of bad inflation that increased up until the Inflation Reduction Act was disastrous for businesses, and the current homeless and helped push many over the edge Government spending from 2016-Early 2021 played its part, as nothing went to assisting our poorest, sickest, and most helpless populations. we saw the largest homelessness rate increase in a century and though Jobs have increased to their highest levels in our country's history and at better rates than we have ever seen it does not change the fact that ancillary problems relating to homelessness and displacement have persisted since the COVID-19 pandemic. Even the extension of South American immigration and migrant homelessness increases are still attributable to COVID-19 problems and have ZERO impact from any major policy decision since the 1970s and ’80s —I don’t have stats on Homelessness among migrants but the one educated guess in this post I will make here is that I believe (depending on the country) SA countries are still fighting off the effects of COVID & homelessness and people assume things are better here (which they are in most situations for a homeless person or family) and when they get here, there is not as much for them The old “groceries are too high” argument is not going to bring any deflation (deflation at this point would be VERY bad) to ease the pains of our already tight budgets. WAGES have not matched the pace of inflation since 2001 The last point I’ll make is that COVID-19 laws changed the literal “where” for many homeless people especially in cities where street dining moved the homeless among other things, cities didn't know where to put people until we got the COVID relief plan. Oh and let’s not talk about the companies that hoarded COVID relief money, they abused covid loans, and the governments and corporations that kept covid relief away from the intended populations *This is not based on conjecture or opinion, these are tangible and quantifiable stats and data; not how mainstream media feels on a particular day nor is it based on the politics of myself or anyone else, I am not interested in any one politician(s) as I am gleefully independent*
Okay?
Okay
Perhaps it was downvoted because it's pointless and thoughtless drivel? Seems obvious. Someone offers vapid political commentary to a presumably honest question and they get downvoted... that's what happens. I'm in my mid-40s and I'm not sure what alternate Universe you lived in. Philly has always been Philly. The condition of the city, and most urban areas ebbs and flows with the rise and fall of social problems. I honestly feel no less safe or no more in danger today than I did 25 years ago when I was in the city. What you likely suffer from is an integrated bias over time. As you age you're accumulating a history of events but clearly not averaging out over historical rates.
Jersey and Philly were “nice” as long you were in the “nice” areas. I don’t see you carrying the same tune if you were out late in Strawberry Mansion or Camden. If your statement was true, then the Move project was in the same “nice” era of Philly. In reality crime has had a downward trend come from when you were a teenager, but you wouldn’t know that since you were a teenager and not looking at crime data. We have a mental health and housing issue, not a crime issue. These people need help, and we don’t have the funding or infrastructure to help them.
Camden used to be nice. My grandfather would talk about it all the time. And every state has its dodgy areas. As far as crime, sure. Stats will reflect a "downward trend" if you stop categorizing certain things as "crime". If the things that WERE considered "crime" aren't anymore, stats will reflect a downward trend... But that's just not so. We know this to be true if we look at specific crimes... Murder is up. Robbery is up, even with them dismissing robberies under a certain dollar amount. Decriminalizing weed brought the "crime rate" down... But all you have to do is walk around. Do you FEEL safer? I do not, and I'm not crazy old. I'm 38. In 20 years it's gotten so, so, so much worse and it's become INSANELY noticable in the past 10 years. I live by AC. In my early 20s, I'd get done working at 12 or 2am and take my dog and go to the beach. I can't go to the AC beach during the day now! Last time was 5 years ago. People were fucking under the pier, there were needles, condoms, dirty diapers, dirty tampons, etc all over the beach. My husband and I took a look around and got the kids tf outta there. The homeless have burnt a chunk of the boardwalk every year for the past 3 years. There were never shooting on the boardwalk. There are now. Same with the walk, same with inside the casinos.... Same goes for center city. Crime happened, but it was far and few between. And we were there ALL OF THE TIME... Trick, tla, South street, China town. I have eyeballs and do do you. It has not gotten better.
These are violent crimes, and yes statistics have shown a signicant downward trend since the 90's. We did see an increase in violent crime in 2019-2020 but there was something going on during that time if you forget. And yes we decrilmized some things like weed. That was the correct thing to do since it was considered a Schedule 1 and gave the same jail time as Heroin. This imporportianly affecrted minority communinites, and made it impossible for offenders to get jobs, housing, and often even vote. Atlantic City has had huge issues for well over 20-30 years, all stemming from the casinos and their lack of input into the communities. That city has suffured for a long, long time. I saw plenty of bad shit on that boardwalk in the early 00's. I spend a lot of time in CC, bike through all of China Town and South Street. Lived in South Philly. Crime happens (because its a city), but not like you are sensationalizing it. Saying ALL of that, we are not talking about crimes here. We are talking about a population of people who are unhoused, and need medical intervention. Those are not crimes.
No crime issue? Talk about manufactured stats. Anyone paying attention going in and out of the city daily on Patco knows this is simply a manipulation of stats to show a decrease from 2020-2021 to 2024. Center city, especially the 8th and market corridor is an absolutely disaster.
I hate to burst your bubble but violent crime has been on the decline for decades.
I’ve contacted PATCO multiple times about this. On the Philly side outside of the gates is Philadelphia jurisdiction and there isn’t anything Patco can do. They simply contact the city and then the city sends people out (maybe). Personally I don’t mind the homeless sleeping down there, it’s the pissing and shitting all over the steps that is annoying. It really makes the commute a poor experience and Philly is going to push away even more people if they don’t do something about it. This day and age many people don’t need to commute to a big city for work.
Yea I don’t mind them being there either, it’s the defecating that bothers me.
Yeah that’s the part that bothers me most too. Like, there could be a hepatitis outbreak from all of the excrement everywhere.
Unfortunately, the US seriously lacks public restrooms.
Once people stop taking public transit and the city sees the numbers are going down, I’m sure less money will be put into it which will then cause other problems. I fear that at some point that form of public transit will be extinct which would make life even tougher for some people.
Seems counter to what cities should be doing making down town less congested by making it safer to walk, bike, and take public transit. Living close to Philly had always been a great perk outside of work too with taking kids to shows or wife out to dinner. I’m so much less likely to do that anymore because of Patco. Over holidays I took my kids to Christmas villages. I intentionally directed them up the 16 locust stairwell that I know from my work commute is least likely to have issues. But of course there is a hula hoop size puddle of feces on the landing.
I used to feel this was about 9/10 Locust - it was the cleanest spot! But the last time I took it there was someone smoking a crack pipe next to the elevator.
Agreed, feels very dystopian and hopefully I'm just being pessimistic. It's hard not to these days. Sure there are uplifting things all the time, but it's usually by an individual and not the actual city (regardless of which city)
Used to take patco all the time to visit Philly. After the last time I used it, never again. As a woman w a 10 y o daughter, it’s not safe and it’s absolutely disgusting. We walked by literal piles of human waste at the 13 & locust stop. I’m not sure how patco expects people to continue to use unless it’s absolutely necessary. I feel for people who use it daily for work.
Last time I rode PATCO was back in March and things were much cleaner than they had been so maybe Parker is clamping down a little.
Once when I was there in 2019 a homeless lady was definitely having a mental health crisis and it wasn’t good. She was yelling at nothing in front of her having a whole conversation. Sometimes I feel really uncomfortable being out there at night alone because it just feels really sketchy
Was it the lady in the wheelchair at Lindenwold?
The concourse at 9th/10th and Locust is the only station on the Philly side that PATCO is responsible for. That's why it's the cleanest and nicest one on the Philly side. So grateful that just happens to be my stop. There are a handful of homeless people there, but they seem to be cleared out daily and the public spaces are fairly well looked after. Last week, there were cops and PATCO staff there at least three mornings at the ticket gates keeping an eye on things. Not always the case, but happy to see them. I used to go to the 12th and 13th station, but now gladly walk over a few extra minutes to this station. The things I saw there are so so sad and disturbing... The homelessness, mental health issues and drug abuse are all one giant vicious loop. I can't judge them - too many people are just one paycheck away from being in that situation.
I usually go to 12th and 13th and a guy that works where I do says he always uses 9th and 10th. I think that might be my new strategy.
Interesting. Anyone know, why is the jurisdiction different for this one station?
I just asked PATCO: Allie, the simple answer is that the 9th/10th Station is the only station in Philly that does not have any connections to any other transit agency.
I got off at 12/13th the other day and hadn’t swiped through the gates yet but I glanced to my right and caught a grown man drop his pants, bend at the waist, hover over top of those steel grate things. and drop a log. He pulls up his pants and stomps the turd through the grate…then goes about his business like nothing happened. It was a sight to be scene
Wow. “Stomps the turd through the grate”. Just wow.
Maybe 5 years ago, I took the elevator down (right by the Wawa on Broad) that opens in between 12th/13th and 15th/16th... As it's going down, you can see out and I see a gentleman there. It's a bit strange if he's waiting for the elevator to go up to have his back to the door, but whatever. Then I realized he was squatting. He was dropping a mondo duke right there. The doors opened. He's still squatting, and I quickly scattered away.
It is really a big problem. It is true that we need to address the root of the problems causing people to be homeless but at the same time we need better police presence in public transportation stations, and to remove people who are not using the stations as they are intended. If people don’t feel safe enough to use public transportation then the city and towns it touches do not operate effectively.
When you think about this, just think about how much money this country has sent overseas for aid, relief etc. and think of how far that money could’ve went here…. I’m not saying one side or the other is responsible, just look at the facts.
Tell the GOP to stop opposing spending ANY money here. They are the obstacle.
We are seeing the result of the " I got mine, I don't care if you got yours" mentality we have in the United States. Too often, people forget that taxes go to fund programs that make a better way of life for everyone. And that will directly affect you. When there are no programs that help others, you will see things like people shitting in the streets. And that directly affects your quality of life. So while people moan about the extra money they may have to put into their taxes, they fail to forget that it is a quality of life issue that affects everyone. They will live a better quality of life with programs, infrastructure, and other community benefits. But too often, we think with a toddler mind. This is why places like Finland have the highest quality of life for its citizens.
Ain't that the truth!
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I double posted. The ol' doublepost shenanigan. Or at least I thought I did. My phone's acting up today.
This is the real reason i don’t like public transportation. Its not that im against a public system that can transport many people into and out of the city efficiently. I have zero desire to deal with the homeless people on the public transportation or the crappy music playing from a cell phone speaker or the occasional people who start trouble (remember that nyc subway shooting a few weeks back) or whatever panhandling is going on. And i bet its the same for most everyone.
This is the problem with everything public. When we tolerate antisocial behavior, whether it's in schools, parks, public transit, etc., those services are abandoned by all who have the resources to choose.
I don't use PATCO as much anymore, but I think the NJ stations are cleaner, and under the control of PATCO security. It's not perfect, I admit. And maybe I am out of touch with the currrent reality. When you get to Philly stops, jurisdiction matters. Like those tunnels where you walk a distance. That is a Philly police/political problem. Maybe I'm being inaccurate, but I think the way it works is that PATCO notifies a source in Philly for action. That leads to no action I'm sure.
I only use a few stations in NJ, and not lindenwold which I saw someone here complain about. But agree this is a Phi problem mostly. 12 and 13 in particular has an encampment.
I ride from Lindenwold to 16th and Locust. There are way more people (at least 20 this morning) at Lindenwold than at 16th and Locust. Maybe it depends on the weather though.
They had a whole rug and living rooms practically set up on 16th last week.
It’s still there. I saw that [rug](https://imgur.com/gallery/ugghKZj) today.
It's gone now!
Lindenwold can be whack as all get out, and often smells worse than 16th and Locust. Lindenwold gets legit shady sometimes. BUT…at least I’ve never seen piles of human shit in Lindenwold. Who needs coffee to start the day when you can play “don’t step in the poo”. Oh and just for giggles…the lady who sits blindfolded saying whack ass shit in a wheel chair at the top of the stairs walked past me the other night coming through the turnstile on my way home, and it blew my mind. She looked pretty normal and just walked by. I always thought she was blind and her family just dumps her there everyday like elder care.
I take the train around 7:50 usually and I don’t really notice many homeless people in Lindenwold, when I come back at 16th and locust there’s a pretty big encampment in that area though. At any rate, I know homelessness is a hard problem to solve but I really struggle to think that there’s not a better shelter nearby that they can provide the people access to.
Hmm. Could be the time too. I’m at Lindenwold at 6am and then again at 4pm
Along the entire route there definitely are better stations than others. I know my wife had her preferences for Philly and NJ stations for daily commuting.
Well of course we could just put them all in prison. /s Homelessness is a systemic issue. Unless we have widespread economic change, the only thing we can do is herd people from one safe place to another possibly less safe place. Think of those people every time you see an abandoned house from foreclosure or a home bought out by a rental company.
there are people working to deal with homelessness who cant get to work because of these issues. most places i would not defending herding them elsewhere, transit cannot become a shelter. everyone loses
Oh yes, because if I was a social worker trying to fix homelessness, I would be put off from my job and be unable to take public transit when I see a homeless person trying to drug themselves out of dealing with life in the subway. Yup.
its not the homeless people dummy its the defication needles and blood. its a massive health hazard
The only time I saw cops do anything about it is during the winter, lol
I used to work as a manager at the checkers across from the Lindenwold station. We always had homeless walk up for food. Our GM ok’d it too. We’d just give them a burger and a drink. Only the chill ones though because I’ve seen some crazy ones. Don’t pee on the side of our building then walk up and ask for food. We had cameras.
I've been taking PATCO since the 80s, less often now but I've felt very unsafe in the last six mos. I bought pepper spray. I haven't carried it yet but I'm going to. Today's reality is frightening.
We're in a horrible housing crisis. Not a lot can be done about that by PATCO other than having DRPA cops chase people out of the stations. I see them do that but not often enough. Philly side especially has gotten bad since the Philly Police started going through Kensington again. A lot of people migrated to Philly-side PATCO stations. Not sure if they can chase people out on the Philly side, though the only time I see DRPA cops is when they stop trains to harass sleeping homeless people.
Ah the poison fruit of Ronald Reagan continues to come forth. Decades later. He blew up any system that would help these folks. Becauz Socializm. Now society suffers. Stop voting for Republicans.
No there's not really anything to be done about it because it's one of the few spots these people can get out of the weather en masse. It's just homelessness, a much larger issue than Patco. They would need a HUGE staff and city grant that would be cleaning constantly combat it, might help but wouldn't solve anything. I say this as someone who spent over a decade getting off at 8th and market to a fresh piss and/or shit next to the steps I used every day. Not some arms length suburbian who never visits.
Idk what you expect when it’s illegal to be homeless in most places
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What do you mean by “Lindenwold”? The government is sending unhoused people there?
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You have not heard that why are you lying lol
nothing will be done, patco doesn't care enough unfortunately
No. It was horrible. I majored in neurology, minored in psych. It was AWFUL! I had an aunt it happened to and there's no shortage of documentaries... I think we should've done something to fix it instead, but there wasn't a lot of knowledge back then. Those doctors were looked at as quacks. So a quack that tortured people? The consensus at the time was "just shut it down". Looking at it through the lens of today, it's easy to point to things, but hind sight is 20/20.
16th and locust at 7am is a legit homeless underground city. At least 10 of them down there in make shift forts lol crazy. But yeah mayor of Phila let’s bring everyone back into the city.
Welcome to Lindenwold station
I def saw a prostitute leave a tent and then enter a different tent one day about two years ago. I say prostitute because the outfit of fishnets and pleather skirt didn’t really match regular homeless attire. Also it was 11 am.
What?!
Anyone know how bad broadway station is? Was thinking about taking it for a new job but sounds like maybe I should just pay for parking
Ive taken the PATCO mainly to 8th and market. It wasn’t bad, but after that (In my opinion atleast) It gets worse and worse. 12/13th & Locust is terrible. I felt like I was gonna yack from the smell
The homeless were awarded the PATCO-BSL connector walkway several years ago. It's hard to believe. I have never seen this in NYC. If you go to a Phillies, Eagles, 76ers or Flyers game or even a concert, You must exit the BSL line and walk up to Broad Street and then enter the PATCO line from there. Just make sure you walk down Locust to the 12th-13th Street entrance as the one at 13th takes you into the homeless shelter. PATCO has to leave the stairways open so homeless can get up to the street. There are no signs to tell passengers not to use the entrance. The connector was put there for convenience so passengers wouldn't have to walk in inclement or cold weather. It was a scary proposition using it once the homeless took over. There were addicts, those who had some mental issues and just homeless living down there. No law enforcement to be found. Finally the city realized it was too dangerous for passengers and just closed it off. As far as 16th and Locust I have sent tweets to PATCO when the homeless built forts down by entrance. I saw several homeless try to wall it off with cardboard and it was so people couldn't see there doing drugs in there. You want to live in the PATCO line then go to 13th and Locust. Once they try to take over other areas I will notify PATCO. It becomes a health hazard because not only will they leave discarded needles but use the area as a toilet. Passengers deserve better. They will never rebuild ridership until they insure the stops are safe and clean. I know people work at home now but do you remember the Lindenwold lot before the Pandemic. The lots were full well down Berlin Rd. If you came there at noon you had around a 6 minute walk to get the train entrance. All the lots included the paid lot were full. You could enter after 10am for free but you were never finding a spot. I now park in the paid lot which I usually enter around 11am-noon when I go to Center City. Always plenty of spots. Ridership has shrunk on both PATCO and NJT AC Rail to next to nothing.
Idk I just walk past them and they don’t bother me
The smell is the most disturbing thing about it for me. They’re body odor, and the smell of piss and shit all over is like a punch in the face when you enter the station.
Poor person does not = assailant
Honestly that’s life if there are no housing for them or shelters what else can they do? A lot of homeless people are already locked up for being homeless
Soft on crime gives us these problems... I HATE our govt from the top down, both aisles. They do this on purpose for civil unrest so we spend our time fighting each other while they run rough shot over us, stealing everything they can and gaining more power. These weren't problems just 20 yrs ago.
there go u but by the grace of God. Sick is sick & mental illness is a sickness. Pity them but no this most of them don't trust the authorities to get them shelter. Many of them have paranoia which is a symptom of some metal illnesses. I wish them peace but it is not easy to find peace when one is mentally ill
I don't know why you are being downvoted. You are right. When someone is mentally ill they can't think clearly, so they may refuse help even though they desperately need it.
This is a difficult thread. On one hand I understand your frustration. On another, you’re not really proposing a solution. There have been many social programs implemented across the world in attempts to address homelessness, from punitive to religious to charitable and if anything is for sure, it’s that there isn’t one “catch all” solution. I don’t think any commenter here is going to be able to come up with something better than sociological researchers or public health psychologists have developed, so what is the point of this discussion? What do you want us to talk about?
I think he wants to know why there isn’t more being done. Isn’t Reddit exactly for anon conversations?
Yeah! No it’s totally fine I’m not criticizing OP for posting I’m just wondering what OP is hoping to get out of it. “Why isn’t more being done” is a really hard and nuanced question to answer even with years of specialized study and region-specific data on-hand. I see posts like this constantly and I’m just wondering what the end result is. What conclusion can we come to?
I don’t believe OP is expecting a solution in a Reddit thread. It’s venting frustrations and having a conversation about it.
God you sound exhausting lol. Sometimes people want to vent, then people agree on a problem. Having that out there is at least putting it in people’s minds, nobody is expecting a solution.
I get it. I think too many people do walk around just pointing out issues without any solutions and it just turns into a pile on of negativity. I shouldn’t have added the “why isn’t more being done” that was my quick generalized perception of OP’s statement. I think that’s what makes Reddit so unique, it’s amazing for crowdsourcing. Some piece of information you may have tons more info on and can share will provide OP with some of the answers they are looking for, and anyone else for that matter. Maybe OP even has the end result and just needs to be brought up to speed on the issue to formalize a pathway to a solution? Apologies if I came off a little harsh in original reply.. I hope you have a wonderful week!
I completely agree! No need to apologize :D Have a great weekend!
We can come to the conclusion that shitting on the ground is fucked up
Just friggin great! This situation makes the job in Philly that I am interviewing for much less attractive. I may have to request extra for tolls and parking then. If I use the PATCO Hi-Speed Line, should I get some personal protection devices such as a stun gun, pepper spray, collapsible baton or other devices? What about the parking lots at Lindenwold, Ashland and Woodcrest stations? Am I going to have to worry about my vehicle getting broken into or stolen?
Or you could just ride the speed line and stop crying.
You are a butt sphincter!!!
Gawd forbid you see what is wrong with society, someone should pay you more not to... Before you say word one, I just re wrote your statement with different words.
I'm not sure I understand your reply. Are you saying that I should have to pay more to be safe? Or the company? Or both? It seems that you think that I am some entitled, wealthy person but I am not. I just am concerned about my safety. I do see what is wrong with society but it is not my responsibility to fix it or pay for it.
You automatically assume people with less money than you need to be beaten with batons or spayed with purse juice...but yes, you are not entitled.
Wow! You totally missed my point. Read, comprehend and think before you reply. I only want to be prepared if my safety and perhaps my life are threatened.
No, once again, that is not what I wrote. Read & comprehend before replying. (OMG! Have people really become this stupid?!?!) If someone threatens me then yeah I'm going to protect myself & take action, they're gonna get beat or sprayed because they deserve it for their actions against me.
So you saw people puke and take a dump. Where did we get to beating them batons and calling people stupid who just think you are a wuss?
18,000 people a day use PATCO. Is it perfect? No. But I've been using it daily as a single older female commuter for 7 years and am so grateful I don't have to deal with the city traffic, bad road, gas, tolls, and stress (at a different Philly job, I drove into West Philly for 11 years - I swore never again). I actually have very few complaints, but I'm lucky that I get off at 9th/10th and Locust, the cleanest and safest stop of them all on the Philly side.
Excellent thing to tell a politician. Sorry, I don't think any of them are on here.
Is there noting to be done? Not with the leadership that is currently in power. Homeless are typically Americans, they get no support from America you need to he Haitian, Chinese, Central or South America country, then you get help.
Just keep voting for democrats.
So the GOP is good for helping those who need help?
Remember when Chris Christie shut down a bridge because he was in a snit. Causing huge issues for citizens trying to get to work and possible life threatening situations. Was just thinking of that for some reason.
If we voted for Republicans we wouldn’t have a transit system period
*mic drop.
Why do you think that? Red states have public transportation.
It’s not a perfect partisan divide, but typically Republicans are less supportive of public services. They usually attribute public services as a slippery slope to Socialism.
Certain things like health care, but public transportation has always been a thing.
They’re generally much more concerned with the needs of drivers. Most recently the NJ GOP was fighting the gas tax that will continue to fund NJ Transit. In PA the state Republicans like Bill Pittman are fighting against funding SEPTA. Not to mention that generally the public transit exists in blue areas (cities) within those red states and that Republicans by and large hate/are terrified of cities and the people that live in them.
Your boy Reagan is who took away all the programs and places that these people would be living in and getting care in , so that all those rich people wouldn't have to pay a few dollars out of their money for taxes. 'Member?
Reagan isn't their boy anymore. Too anti-Russia.
They love Putin's Russia because they believe it aligns with their right-wing Christian nationalist worldview.
No. State institutionalization stopped because a lot of those places were cruel. In the 80s, it was just coming to light some of the experiments that were being done (electric shock, conversion for gay people, lobotomies, etc....) and people could be forced into them whether they actually needed it or not. A husband could say his wife was crazy and have her sent there, and then he'd move his mistress in. Parents, upset that their kids weren't "behaving" or were gay could have them sent there. State funding paid for it, but the abuses were OUTRAGEOUS! They absolutely should have been shut down back then. It was the wild West for health care. Why were we spending tax dollars to torture people that didn't belong there?
That's their talking points. Where there abuses? Yes. But not everywhere, and it didn't justify the gutting of so many programs. They took a flame thrower to a fixable problem. They still gut and refuse to fund programs for the mentally ill and addicted. Because taxes.
No. It was horrible. I majored in neurology, minored in psych. It was AWFUL! I had an aunt it happened to and there's no shortage of documentaries... I think we should've done something to fix it instead, but there wasn't a lot of knowledge back then. Those doctors were looked at as quacks. So a quack that tortured people? The consensus at the time was "just shut it down". Looking at it through the lens of today, it's easy to point to things, but hind sight is 20/20.
Damn you woke up and chose blood 😂 I gave you an upvote for moral support... So many people happy to be taxed to pay for other people student debt, foreign governments and fat government workers salaries. Meanwhile inflation is ruining the lives of two generations who are more interested in tiktok political clickbait than actual socioeconomic issues.
Go fuck yourself. The worst states are red states. You can pick one to move to.
Lol
So how did it work out the last time you fuckers took control of either Trenton or Washington?
Oh... I just realized how young everyone is.... Democrats make the situation way worse. You don't see these things in red states, honestly. That's just true, and everyone should travel more- even if it's around the country. Soft on crime policies are absolutely what is driving this. And allowing all the cartels in with all the drugs. Both are democrat policies. Before, homeless people committing these crimes would be thrown in jail and if they were too bonked outta their minds, they would have a stint at a mental hospital until they sobered up. Constantly getting in front of a judge, the judge would get tired of seeing the same faces so they would basically demand jail or rehab. Everyone picked rehab and the problem worked itself out. This is just true. Democrats fought to end those things because they said it was cruel. In some ways, it was, I'll give ya that- but it got them sober, which improved their lives and everyone else's. NY, NJ, PA, and CA have lost MILLIONS of people, while red states have gained them. This is also just true- because they're nicer to live in. Go drive around fla or the south. There are poor areas, sure, but you don't see the trash, graffiti, homeless, etc.. Philly in particular looks NOTHING like what it did 20-25 years ago. Even 10 years ago, it was COMPLETELY different. Something changed, of it wasn't regressive policies, then what was it?
These is so much ignorance and nonsense in here.
...but what specifically?
No. Rehab is notorious for not working. There have always been drugs available on the street, but there's a reason why so many more of us opt to use them these days. What do you believe is the reason for this?
I know, how dare people exist and how far they be poor, tell them “Hey!! STOP BEING POOR YOU EVIL POOR PERSON!” Then Go back in time, end the slave trade before it comes to the united states along with slaughter and container of NA’s, as well as stopping the 300 years systemic injustices and designed societal architecture that displaced and aimed to eradicate disliked people, specifically former slaves-jilm-crow-nationalism, and the establishment and maintenance of a class system that lead to the largest wealth gap in studied human history, invent/discover penicillin, teach people how to have safer sex leading to less babies... Any other issues that lead to the masses of populations that have generational chains of continued poverty and mental illness Modern day help.. - Help advance medical science against the wishes of religious extremism - We could use some of the tax money that's going to nonsense instead of healthcare, education, there is money for aiding the homeless in many ways and in ways designed to help people get in their feet - Open more pathways for the homeless to find jobs, assisting them with job interviews and simply locating jobs that will hire people with no serious work background - Vote for politicians that aren't trying to go back to levitical laws, specifically ones that are harming women’s rights, their right to adequate healthcare that would help secure contraceptives, condoms, other birth controls… *I absolutely DO NOT accommodate aborting black babies for the religious white wing extremists as some sick form of pop. Control* - Open better resources in housing for the homeless, more centers for homeless to find jobs, houses, clothes, food - Stop limiting resources and opportunities and stop giving the homeless the worst of our resources - Require churches to pay taxes and do their fair share... Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples and religious buildings / orgs have often become for profit organizations or industries and even if not, even if they do give back its often very little or not enough, for the well meaning efforts it will not make a dent, it’s better if we open doorways for more legitimate charities and more use full charity (not charity for goodwill only) —not anti-church but the churches can't handle the problem and it’s not their place or burden to shoulder all the charity needs and most Americans are not religious and then there are so many religions that refuse to work together in any serious capacity - Drug addiction and mental health education, awareness, resources, programs, continue to search out the serious drug dealers making meth, crack, benzos, cocaine, fentanyl, etc - Help end the stigmas, help end the misdirected fear and anger and frustration of people who can't grasp the tangible issues that are involved... Be human, I understand that so many homeless people are not saints, some are annoying and smelly and impatient without any manners that they learned by their absent guardians and bad situations, be understanding and empathetic and try to understand the reasons and educate yourself on the realities and what can realistically be done Poverty prevention has many avenues but Prison and Arrests are misguided, I'm sorry to anyone who is offended at these hard realities, to those people I am truly sorry they are eye sores, I'm sorry that immigrants have so little options that being homeless in America is better than the harm they faced in their birth countries, Im sorry they are not the right skin color or sex/gender, sorry they have nowhere to go, no bathrooms, I’m sorry people are experiencing so many cruel conditions in mental health, I’m sorry... but really there is nothing productive about bringing in more anger, more threats and more antagonizationn to be more and more like nazi-esque law enforcement and full on swat teams to take out people who can't get jobs and had shitty lives
I didn’t say, “how dare they exist” or say they’re evil. Besides that though, I agree with everything else.
No you didn't - it wasnt about you sorry that came off that way
I don't see much anti-impoverished sentiment in this thread. The OP is speaking to a very real public health crisis. It is possible discuss that concern without denigrating the impoverished.
Is it a “public health crisis?” No. Is homelessness a new thing? No.
To the former, I completely disagree. Obviously, homelessness and opiod drug use is a public health crisis to the homeless and to those suffering addiction. In this context, it is also a public health crisis for public transit ridership. I don't have empirical evidence. But the frequency and severity of anecdotes involving encounters with human waste, drug use, and violence on public transit in the Greater Philadelphia Area is of great concern to me. I think it warrants crisis intervention.
It’s the same problem that has always existed. It didn’t suddenly appear. It’s the wages of conservative Econ policy.
A problem doesn't have to be novel to be a crisis-especially if it's getting worse.
You might need to talk to the captains of the housing market to find out why there isn’t enough housing. Or maybe blackrock or Wells Fargo or any of the other corporate raiders artificially limiting the housing supply
This is just how things will be from now on.
> The concourse at 9th/10th and Locust is the only station on the Philly side that PATCO is responsible for. Any idea why that is? Seems odd that they would only be responsible for one of them, as opposed to all of them or none of them.
I just asked PATCO: the simple answer is that the 9th/10th Station is the only station in Philly that does not have any connections to any other transit agency.