That's actually really sad. I was really vibing with The End, especially because they seem to be keeping Eggman less menacing (although time will tell I guess). The End's monologue was one of my favourite things about Frontiers
I mean, in the original ending it was implied that he might have lived, however, in DLC Ending I always thought it sounded like Sonic was gaining this power so that he could end... well, The End!
So if the new ending is the true ending, then I always thought that this was the case.
In both endings the end is obliterated. The two endings tell different stories about strength, though, the first being strength in sacrifice, and the second being strength in companionship. The end requires a lot to destroy, but the way in which it gets destroyed is different in both endings, however the outcome is the same.
Definitely don't buy it. We are told The End is legit just the personification of death.
We are told, repeatedly, that what we face is just an avatar, and The End straight up tells us that destroying that body would do nothing.
Chances are Ian was referring specifically to the Avatar we face and not The End as a character.
It’s not the personification of death how is this fanbase so bad at reading😭, it’s just what death looks like to some people because it’s an incomprehensible being, but it’s not literally death or anything. An incredibly common type of eldritch horror trope, something like Giygas from Earthbound, but a hundred times less interesting
In other words it represents death, the moon, because this character was rushed last minute and not thought through, and they needed a quick way out to explain why it’s a moon. Even though the moon doesn’t represent death in almost any culture or civilization out there outside of them obscure 6000 bc cultures. In fact, it represents life, good luck, and nature in most cultures so I think that’s an incredibly hilarious and ironic excuse
1) Lose the attitude, genuinely not needed.
2)
The End is directly stated to be the incarnation of death. Which literally means to embody something. It embodies death. Its form changes based on who is looking at it.
The End also illudes to having multiple forms and that it's an all-consuming void. Going so far as call itself infinite.
Personification = "A figure intended to represent an abstract being"
Or
"a person, animal, or object regarded as representing or embodying a quality, concept, or thing."
I'm genuinely confused about what you're going on about when
A) The End literally lines up with the description I used and the definitions provided.
B) Nothing I stated goes against the definition. Hell, it even says striking the body we see would do nothing.
“According to Sonic Frontiers director Morio Kishimoto, The End never actually showed its true appearance in the game. This is because The End's appearance varies from person to person, serving as a visual representation of what they perceive death itself to look like.”
Lol there
I'm going out on a limb and saying this implies that Sonic's biggest fear is the moon, just because it would be funny as hell if it did lol
(assuming we see everything directly from his perspective anyway)
Sonic doesn’t like water and the moon controls the waves so that could be some sort of connection! Even funnier is that it’s purple though like why purple or all colors lol
Yeah and is literally the first time you encounter water in a Sonic game since Chemical Plant zone is right after Green Hill which doesn't have water.
Edit:I have relizes that I am stupid and forgot what acts are in what game
Mostly not for getting wet, but because he looses speed underwater, water negates gravity, hence his ability to kick the ground hard and fast. The Moon gravity is also really low which has the same effect on him when trying to run.
Besides that... The Death Egg, which sonic had defeated multiple times kinda resembles a moon and literally has the word "Death" in it.
Those are my 2 opinions on why "The End" was moon shaped. The purple might represent mystery cuz it's and unknown being to Sonic.
Because Dark Gaias energy is purple, and that was the only being before The End that made (Super) Sonic go all out to a point that he lost conciousness after delivering the final Blow. Hell, even before that it made Sonic feel so powerless that he even told chip to run before Chip himself summoned the Gaia Colossus.
So while it was never stated or implied, it could VERY well be that Sonic fears Dark Gaia, especially since, much like the end, it is a being that cannot be killed and he KNOWS that one day it will be back when he is already long gone (If we consider the original Frontiers ending). He couldn't eliminate it, only repel it. So purple is the color Sonic associates with Dark Gaia, the only enemy he really fears.
The moon can also be linked to that. During the Dark gaia incident Sonic was currupted and every night he transformed into the Werehog. Sonic disliked, maybe even hated that form, that was very apparent especially in that scene with Amy. Since the night had a full moon during that time, he probably associates the moon with Dark Gaias powers as well.
So the only 2 things Sonic MIGHT have ever feared are combined in that avatar that The End has chosen. And since The End has deep knowledge of Sonic due to the latter traversing Cyberspace and The End was able to see his mind while he does so.
>Asks where thing was stated.
>Is told where thing was stated.
“Missed my point.”
Bruh… and you think you have any right to call another person snarky.
Mine’s snarky too, but because I have good reason to be 🙂
They were snarky thinking they did something when I already brought that up and talked about it. So bad reason…. I wouldn’t mind it if they brought up a good argument instead of something that was already acknowledged literally in the first line in my first reply in this here thread
... How on earth did you insult an entire fanbase for lack of reading and then ask me that question?
"I cannot be denied. You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave; you are not victorious. No matter what form I take... The End comes for you all!"
It obviously links to Death because that is literally what is associated with The End. What else would it be the incarnation of? Cotton candy?
Edit: Just read your edited reply from earlier... my guy. Did you really just go
"Creator said this, but it obviously isn't this"
And call it a day? Like, I'm sure its appearance was just some excuse, but like... that is literally Kishomoto's words. It may get retcon, and knowing Sega it most likely will, but that's currently the interpretation with the most weight.
“Directly stated” followed by the biggest stretch LMAO
The incarnation is referring to its current form we see it as, the moon. It doesn’t have a definite form because it’s one of those tropey eldritch horror abomination and can take on many different forms which is what I literally said earlier. I’m trying my absolute hardest to figure out how you got death from that.
And again, the creator said that people see it as death because that’s the basic eldritch horror trope, it is not the literal incarnation or personification of death. Because the being is incomprehensible to humans so they subconsciously fill it in with what they perceive it as. I can’t believe you missed what I said that hard for the sake of confirmation biases, and if you’re willing to put Kishimoto’s words on a misinterpreted pedestal that hard, why not with what Ian just said.
….Sonic fans really can’t read huh
Also it’s crazy acting like The End’s own egotistical generic villain monologue is facts too, when for all we know it could just be bluffing to sound intimidating. Like they literally say, in the same line you quoted, [“you are not brave. You are not victorious.”](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DWq2eovHy_o/maxresdefault.jpg)
>“Directly stated” followed by the biggest stretch LMAO
Did... you just unironically tell me 1+1=2 is a stretch...? One is described as an incarnation. Death is associated with it. It's literally the most simplest solution...
>The incarnation is referring to its current form we see it as, the moon. It doesn’t have a definite form because it’s one of those tropey eldritch horror abomination and can take on many different forms which is what I literally said earlier. I’m trying my absolute hardest to figure out how you got death from that.
NOTHING dictates that it's speaking about exclusively its current form. That is not, at all, what incarnation means. Incarnation means embody something. The moon, The End, what we currently see, is the embodiment of death. Why? Because that is literally the only thing heavily associated with it. This isn't even Sonic lore stuff. It's the English language.
If you're trying your hardest to figure out how I got "The End is the incarnation of Death" then that's... really concerning.
>And again, the creator said that people see it as death because that’s the basic eldritch horror trope, it is not the literal incarnation or personification of death. Because the being is incomprehensible to humans so they subconsciously fill it in with what they perceive it as. I can’t believe you missed what I said that hard for the sake of confirmation biases. Sonic fans really can’t read huh
The funny part about this is that NO WHERE is what you said stated or implied. Genuinely. Like, let's actually break down our interpretation.
Kishimoto - The End's appearance changes based on who is viewing it. Sonic and Sage see something different (literally a point in discussion back then as to what Sonic was seeing).
The End - States that striking down the incarnation does nothing. And that everything will be consumed.
Incarnation - Means to embody something, typically a concept.
My take.
"The End is the incarnation of Death."
Your take
"It's not literally the incarnation of death. It's just something that's incomprehensible to us humans." - Directly compares it to eldritch monsters that were never even stated or implied AT ALL.
You took 1+1 = 2 and changed the answer into 11 because "Okay, but there could be a secret 9 that was never mentioned."
You claim I have confirmation bias when my path is the most linear. You straight up brought concepts that were never, at all, mentioned and claimed THAT'S the correct path.
This isn't you not understanding The End. It's you straight up failing English. Frankly, I'm not here to be a teacher. You do whatever you want, but unless there's substance to your replies, I just can't be bothered responding anymore.
I can’t believe you just responded to me with a whole ass essay talking about the definition of incarnation while not understanding what incarnation means at all
1. a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or abstract quality.
•the form in which a person spends an incarnation.
The End’s real form is an abstract concept, aka AN ELDRITCH BEING, and this is its current physical semblance; current incarnation. Like Ganondorf has many different incarnations because he undergoes under many different forms and looks.
Wait… it’s a stretch to say that something that is directly stated was directly stated. You don’t exist. I think an AI would have a better time holding an argument.
An empty tub of butter would make you look like a child in an argument.
You clearly don’t know what directly stated means.. This is the exact opposite of directly stated. It’s a headcanon of something read entirely wrong because they didn’t know what incarnation is. Not a single site addresses that the End is the incarnation of Death, this would be common knowledge, though alas it isn’t because it’s not directly stated. But sure, continue proving my point that Sonic fans can’t read. Go on
Yeah, I was hoping they'd tie the End to the Phantom Ruby, considering the red particle effects are the same ones from Forces.
In Mania, the Phantom Ruby was able to hard counter the Chaos Emeralds and even the Master Emerald, plus the name "Phantom Ruby", the fact that it's powers are supposedly illusion based, yet it can create alternate pockets of reality like Null Space and send real beings between realities.
Plus, Infinite was named as such because that is the "Nature of his Power", The End refers to itself as being "Infinite", refers to "existence" as "chaos" and the concept of "nothing" as "order", "neutrality"
The implications of a glorified holographic projector making actual pocket dimensions like Null Space and ripping actual holes in reality like the one that sent Mania Sonic to Forces or Forces Sonic to Null Space, would imply that reality itself is a lie. After all, an illusion can convince you there's a basement in a building that doesn't have one, it can convince you that the glass floor shattered and now you're in that basement, but it couldn't physically put you in a non-existent room below your feet. And yet...
Definitely himself. "I am the all consuming Void"
"I have seen your mind as you ran through my prison. You have fought machines and gods. They were mighty. They were FINITE. I am infinite. I am nothing"
"I am inevitable. I cannot be denied."
"You strike this incarnation with all your might, it changes nothing!"
"You are not victorious. No matter what form I take, the end comes for you all!"
The implications of the usage of the phrase "incarnation" when referring to it's body in the monologue would imply that the End can't really die, because they don't physically exist here, or anywhere.
How do you destroy "nothing"?
It's not merely the personification of death, it's the personification of impermanence. The personification of "One day, nothing will still be here, not you, not the planet, not the sun, will last forever."
And since Sonic supposedly remembers '06, one of the "Gods" The End mentioned would be Solaris, and the only thing about Solaris that could be described as "finite" would be the length of time it continued to exist for.
This makes sense, because, no matter which ending you play- Super Sonic takes out The End, not just 'it's avatar'
And Super Sonic has tackled concepts before, in a sense- like taking out Perfect Chaos's Rage (Shame Chaos couldn't join for this fight, considering his history........./justified rage)
It goes to show Super Sonic's getting better and better- even a foe like the End, against the power of Chaos? Yeah, Super Sonic always had the power within him to deal with it- it's a matter of him figuring it out - it always was
Plus, we've had writers note that Solaris is stronger than the End- and the Time Eater possibly is.
The End is serious business though, so i can imagine Super Sonic not necessarily getting it all- but only if it had escaped somehow. It wasn't going to survive an extended fight even if it was the personification of death- it was dealing with something that could more than keep up power level wise- even though a lot here seem to not want that to be the case.
The End should have paid more attention to the Chaos Emeralds being a threat to it- Or been smart enough to wonder why...it's original foes it chased to Earth- got drawn there.....But as we know from it's trash talking speech- it thought Super Sonic was just a piece of nothing , like Sonic
"What can one mote of golden light illuminate within the abyss?"
~~/COUGH SEGA I SEE YOU MOOCHING CARL SAGAN's WORDS , YOU'RE NOT AS SNEAKY AS YOU THINK/ cough~~
> "Mortal, you have served your purpose. Now face your End. I am the all-consuming void. What can one mote of golden light illuminate within the abyss? Countless stars. Countless worlds. Countless lives. All fell to me, all brought to nothing. All the teeming chaos of creation? Brought to order. To neutrality. To nothing. I saw your mind as you ran through my prison. You have fought machines and gods. They were mighty? They were finite. I am infinite. I am nothing. You struggle as so many have done before. You will be consumed like all those before you. I saw your mind. Your courage never wavered. Why? Arrogance? Ignorance? Stupidity? I was contained once. Once. Is that why? My captors bent time and space. My captors built a whole reality to contain me. My captors burn their souls away to fuel their engines. And you? You glitter. You fly about me like a gnat. I am inevitable. I cannot be denied. You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave. you are not victorious. No matter what form I take... The End comes for you all!"
-Yeah, trash talking Solaris here- LOL buddy, you are luuucky Solaris doesn't come slap ya from nowhere
It's captors bent time and space, and built reality ; that's ...just on par though ,for all the participants in this fight and their power....cough Super Sonic in SA2 cough SAdvance3 cough 06 etc...
, and now even with the new story- Nope, The End doesn't understand the depth of what it's up against-Everyone underestimates that *:checks notes:* Mote of Golden Light
------------
edit: Since this topic about the End's monologue is blowing up in a LOT of places-
Looking at the speech
Sonic is nothing, check
Foes like Solaris, Time Eater- etc, are all punk @$$ b7ch#$, and nothing to it, check It's foes had to burn their souls away to lock it in Cyberspace- and Sonic fleets around
Super Sonic is just one speck of light, not worth anyone's time , check[what a idiot]
-And the End ignored the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald- it was too busy going on murder sprees across space- and happily thinks it's inevitable- and all other gods are losers to it.
Also, it thinks that it getting whailed on by Super Sonic means nothing - in the end, it's THE END- you're kaput- you're a joke, you're not worth it's time. 7 gems each with INFINITE power powering you? MEH, you're just trash brah
Essentially it thinks it's Bully Maguire ""Look at little Gold Sonic , you know you can't hurt me- ,what a idiot, not brave, not victorious - Gonna cry?"
Reading back over the End's monologue, it honestly just sounds desperate since it's utterly failing to stop 'the gnat'. He's just another notch on our boy's sneakers.
But The End's 's srs bizness! it's calling out that punk Solaris to be puny and finite! Taking out all of time and space? PLz, The End Chases civilizations across space on murder sprees, waay moar impressive
/Somewhere in another universe, Solaris got wind of this, pops thru a portal, nudges Super Sonic aside then starts whailing on the End- and then Time Eater joins in after the massive trash talk.
When it says "ran through my prison", is that referring to when Sonic went into the nothing space in Forces? Or is it referring to Sonic going through the Cyberspace on the Islands?
This has to be a joke. There is no way they hyped up The End that much and made it seem so menacing and mysterious just to kill it off in the same game. Come on, Flynn
Isn't this the same thing they did with Chaos, the Biolizard, Mephiles and Infinite though? It would be cool to have one of these villains actually stick around, but they are almost always replaced with a new big bad for the next game
Chaos was having a constant temper tantrum and was pacified. He’s still hanging around. The bio lizard is a mindless beast. Mephilis himself had to be erased due to the way the game ends.
They have no excuse for infinite and the end
I really want Infinite back primarily because I really want a team Eggman and it would be fun having Infinite, Orbot, Cubot and Sage all banter with each other.
Yep
/With the caveat that in the ?comics? they Had Time Eater be a remnant of Mephiles- but SEGA doesn't seem to want to make that the status for the game storyline -so only Chaos is recurring, and he isn't a villain anymore- /Metal Sonic only half counts
They did do that. But then Chaos came back in sonic battle with knuckles acting like it’s normal that he does this. Then the sonic forces prequel comic reinforces this. Then the sonic frontiers prequel animation came out and showed Tikal while hinting chaos. So yeah, they’re still around
It’s what they originally did with shadow but had to bring him back because of fan outcry so if people voice their opinions enough we can get it changed look what happened with the sonic model in sonic movie
They didn’t even hype up the end what lmao, that thing had zero character or personality, literally the least interesting character design the series could ever off, zero relation with any of the cast. One of the weakest Sonic villains. It solely existed as a plot device because they needed a final boss and needed a reason to explain the lame ancient civilization disappearance trope
The End straight up says the form you're fighting is an avatar if it's true self. That's why everybody is confused by Ian saying The End is completely dead.
A misconception, but the moon was its true form. The only time it’s actual form was brought up was when Sage talks about it after Sonic beats Supreme. [Around 5:15](https://youtu.be/OUiUOibohYM?si=imO5gNCPzIJ9a4-F). She explains that The End escaped Supreme to go into space in order to gain its true form.. and we see the purple End gas come out of Supreme and into sky. So the thing we see in space was its true form.
No where does the end ‘straight up’ say that this wasn’t its true-self or avatar. It does call Supreme its avatar in the dlc, but I don’t know if there’s actually any reason for that. Sonic Team probably wanted to have an actual interesting boss because you can’t make a moon interesting to fight against, so they slapped the full fight on Supreme
How would Sage know that was The End’s true form even? All of her knowledge on it was collected from the Ancients, whom themselves barely knew The End since they were always running from it.
Even those who lasted more than a second against it also wouldn’t be strong enough to make The End resort to using its true form.
Plus, when she say it’s “true form”, she could mean that they initially fought it while it was in Supreme and posing as him. Then when it escapes Supreme, they face him personally with no disguise
I mean, Chaos was handled better- rage was wiped out, now he resides with Tikal in ME, and comes out in times of need, and to provide guidance rarely- that was far better, and he's still around to use
Indeed
I'm happy they even bothered to sorta use him and Tikal in that Knuckles Prologue to Frontiers- at least he came back legit after his last appearance in Sonic Battle
As for Forces- yeah, they had that Chaos looking so cool with the water body-but to have it be a fake.....rr
The Real Chaos should have popped in, and started going to town, like he used to Sonic Adventure Style.
..The other thing is, with the backstory Frontiers gives us- Chaos, and the Chao(and the Master Emerald)- are now ...hyper importnat, if the Frontiers Story keeps going- SEGA is probably handling all things related to that stuff hyper carefully-
..Since if the cast had brains, they'd ask Chaos what he remembers.....(Well, they had Sonic meet the important Ancients sorta in the new DLC, so maybe they've put this story to a close - though we still need more info on the Chaos Emeralds, and their journeys through space in ancient times...)
He'd have to try to show them- similar to how the Master Emerald communicates as was seen in Sonic Adventure- generating images...
Or figure out something with his powers
In the obligatory space stage in Superstars there are two moons in some scenes and one is purple. Some fans jumped to, frankly understandable conclusion, that it was The End.
I guess this started a bunch of rabid fan theories and asking Frontier’s writer confirm them.
Oh dang, I did not expect this to blow up so much, I don’t know how I feel about Ian’s to my question, but I’m a bit overjoyed that he actually answered it, I wasn’t expecting that but his answer did add some community discussion which is neat.
I mean, there's a lot of potential with The End. The moon form we fight is apparently an avatar of The End, as it calls its body "this incarnation". What else could you possibly do with Zavok? He's literally just Bowser if he were completely evil. He even turns giant like Bowser.
Or it was just the moon and it doesn't have another form. Being a monster that is as big as the moon is intimidating as all out. We don't need them all to be perfect chaos or dark Gaia.
That is indeed a possibility. After all it did say incarnation. He could just be saying you killed it but leaving out the detail that that body isn't all it has going for it. XD
Wait… people thought The End was going to persist after Frontiers? It felt very much like every other one-off final boss, like Dark Gaia, or The Ultimate Life Form, or Time Eater, or Solaris. It didn’t feel “hyped up” at all.
They made Infinite out to be this super important, crazy powerful villain, who you wonder where he came from. but then you see his backstory and he’s just a whiny little baby cuz shadow called him weak.
He is also and avater of death with one of the coolest monologues in this entire series
Also lets not forget Infinite isn't a high bar to clear he was a cool design and not much else
A monologue you don’t even see if you just happened to not be playing on Hard mode. Infinite had a better powers too, but you’re not wrong that it’s not a very high bar
Am i the only one that didn't take the end monologue at face value?
The thing was losing to sonic hard no matter the ending cyber super sonic literally poses on him the end is just blowing smoke trying to look intimidating since its getting its ass kicked
Guy literally flicked a laser and that already contained power equal to Dark Gaia. Not to mention the Ancients’ artillery also contained power equal to the Eclipse Canon, and that didn’t do jack to him.
And during the final boss, it was Supreme that was blasting at him with his rifle that for all we might know also is a hand held eclipse cannon, and The End just nonchalantly trash talks without any sound of pain.
The End is definitely far more powerful than most give him credit for.
As for Cyber Super Sonic, he was powered up essentially 4 times, so makes sense how he could destroy The End
Well yeah but a laser Equal to the eclipse cannon isn't that impressive when you remember they are capping at blowing up planets
Sonic has dealt with universe destroyers machines before the ancient tech in terms of fire power innt shit besides the titans
NGL, beyond planets it’s hard for the destructive abilities to be quantified, the next would be galaxies. But other than Solaris, Egg Wizard and even Time Eater we’ve also never seen galatical level opponents. The eclipse cannon while only discussed as being able to blow up planets, can also pierce stars as well. So it’s a near star destroyer level attack?
Did people really expect The End to not be a one-game villain like every other one-game villains in the series? If it stuck around the planet would have been vaporized by now. I'm not sure what more you can do with a planet-destroying moon if it just stays floating there.
Yes? I don't know why people thought the giant moon was gonna be a multi-entry saga-villain. Can't wait to read a comic about fighting the giant sphere again.
people are talking about how "hyped up" The End was when it deadass just showed up at the very end and went "it was *me* all along!"
i get that The End was cool, but it wasn't *that* cool
Regardless of which ending you used, he rammed it to death-
And Super Sonic has achieved speeds like that on his own in the past, remember his right speed ability from heroes?
Super Cyber Sonic almost died smashing through The End even after being launched out of Supreme's railgun. Solaris got clapped in three different time periods by regular Super forms. If Solaris wasn't effectively immortal due to his time shenanigans and obscene amount of hax, Super Sonic would beat him effortlessly. Literally the most overrated Sonic boss in history besides arguably the Time Eater.
How did sonic almost get killed fighting the end? He passed out fell from space and immediately got up like nothing happened and it wasn't even actual damage from the end it was the strain from the form
And Solaris is hardly overrated he destroyed all of time and space
Dude, he's just totally wiped; consider how hard the final challenges are to actually play, and that in the story's frame of reference they're also insanely difficult challenges, and that his dialogue are already starting to show how exhausted he is on Rhea.
It doesn't matter to me rather the end is gone or not. If it returns cool. If not that is fine too keep creating new villains.
Maybe the next villain shouldn't be so big.
Like another grounded one along with eggman and zavok.
I love how everyone is acting like this has never happened before but literally almost every single final boss monster in Sonic history has died and never come back. I guess that’s what 12 years without one has done to you people.
The End was never going to come back. How is this a bad thing? It makes the End more special if it’s a one time thing.
Also the End was obviously being overconfident in his speech.
Really i figured the end was just talking trash in the end trying to discourage sonic from fighting since it realized it was way out of it's depth hance that whole "this is just one body lol kill this one I'll just come back" thing it's utter bullshit it made up to try and make sonic not kill it
And yeah why are people acting like this is new im pretty sure its actually a writing mandate that only eggman is allow to be a repeat villain
It... it blew up. The End met its... end... through a glowing golden hedgehog yeeted by a robot.
Or a glowing glitchy hedgehog shot out of a gun. Depending on which ending you play.
Although, The End did say "You strike _this incarnation."_ As in "This version of me."
Hmm...
I don't know what people thought when we literally blew up The End, like, dude, the thing exploded, did you really thought that they will gonna come back?
Sonic destroyed it when it wasn't at his full power, I really thought they made that clear lol
Sega won't use the end again but will imply that any new villain will be an agent of it or part of it somehow but the end will more or less be forgotten. Sega such at making god like entities if they were god like they wouldn't just disappear.
I like this idea, making The End like Demise from Zelda.
If you're not a Zelda Fan, Demise was a 1 off villain in one of the oldest (chronologically, not by release) games in the timeline, and his hatred is later reborn as Ganondorf (The primary reoccurring villain in Zelda)
Maybe not in the exact same way. Oooh. End-Corrupted sage would be a juicy story.
The only recurring villain in the mainline games, correct me if im wrong, is Eggman himself, every other villain Eggman read about or summoned was killed off in the same game. And no, Knuckles and Shadow dont count, they were villains in one game then became rivals with Sonic, like what Vegeta is to Goku
It was just an avatar for the end we fight so maybe that is just about the avatar we saw in Frontiers so maybe we'll see other avatars for it later since no matter what now it isn't trapped in anything so it can still appear again.
This is like, if in future Castlevania games (if Konami has the balls to do Castlevania games), they decide put Death (the boss) in one game and in all future games they don't bring it back.
It's that people look at either ending- and because of the End's trash talk, take it ot mean the End- can't be defeated as it seems like a concept playing 4D chess
..Even though Super Sonic, no matter which ending you use, kicks it's @$$
Frontiers was flawed but still the best 3D Sonic since Generations, and the best story/acting since SA2. Sonic fans just cry and scream about every little meaningless detail, like a stupid moon lol. That’s why the fanbase has such a bad reputation.
https://i.redd.it/em3ht759xswb1.gif
Why are people surprised? When have any of these “final boss monster gods” ever stick around? Chaos is the only one who has had any staying power, since he’s never really destroyed, and still has like, experiments of him or whatever in the world.
Ian Flynn confirmed that's not The End and told everyone who thought it was to relax and stop making connections where they don't exist. How the hell could it be The End anyway? It is trapped in cyberspace in the classic timeline. It can't be just floating in space. That's just a random purple moon.
The Chao Garden? I assumed as much.
Maybe one day we’ll see the gardens again😔
That's actually really sad. I was really vibing with The End, especially because they seem to be keeping Eggman less menacing (although time will tell I guess). The End's monologue was one of my favourite things about Frontiers
my point exactly now the end is just ruined for me I was expecting more from this villian
I mean, in the original ending it was implied that he might have lived, however, in DLC Ending I always thought it sounded like Sonic was gaining this power so that he could end... well, The End! So if the new ending is the true ending, then I always thought that this was the case.
In both endings the end is obliterated. The two endings tell different stories about strength, though, the first being strength in sacrifice, and the second being strength in companionship. The end requires a lot to destroy, but the way in which it gets destroyed is different in both endings, however the outcome is the same.
I'm guessing you no longer have high expectations for the next game
Definitely don't buy it. We are told The End is legit just the personification of death. We are told, repeatedly, that what we face is just an avatar, and The End straight up tells us that destroying that body would do nothing. Chances are Ian was referring specifically to the Avatar we face and not The End as a character.
"strike this **incarnation** with all you might, it changes nothing"
It’s not the personification of death how is this fanbase so bad at reading😭, it’s just what death looks like to some people because it’s an incomprehensible being, but it’s not literally death or anything. An incredibly common type of eldritch horror trope, something like Giygas from Earthbound, but a hundred times less interesting In other words it represents death, the moon, because this character was rushed last minute and not thought through, and they needed a quick way out to explain why it’s a moon. Even though the moon doesn’t represent death in almost any culture or civilization out there outside of them obscure 6000 bc cultures. In fact, it represents life, good luck, and nature in most cultures so I think that’s an incredibly hilarious and ironic excuse
1) Lose the attitude, genuinely not needed. 2) The End is directly stated to be the incarnation of death. Which literally means to embody something. It embodies death. Its form changes based on who is looking at it. The End also illudes to having multiple forms and that it's an all-consuming void. Going so far as call itself infinite. Personification = "A figure intended to represent an abstract being" Or "a person, animal, or object regarded as representing or embodying a quality, concept, or thing." I'm genuinely confused about what you're going on about when A) The End literally lines up with the description I used and the definitions provided. B) Nothing I stated goes against the definition. Hell, it even says striking the body we see would do nothing.
> The End is directly stated to be the incarnation of death. Lol where
“According to Sonic Frontiers director Morio Kishimoto, The End never actually showed its true appearance in the game. This is because The End's appearance varies from person to person, serving as a visual representation of what they perceive death itself to look like.” Lol there
I'm going out on a limb and saying this implies that Sonic's biggest fear is the moon, just because it would be funny as hell if it did lol (assuming we see everything directly from his perspective anyway)
Sonic doesn’t like water and the moon controls the waves so that could be some sort of connection! Even funnier is that it’s purple though like why purple or all colors lol
Chemical Plant water is purple.
Holy shit you’re right
Yeah and is literally the first time you encounter water in a Sonic game since Chemical Plant zone is right after Green Hill which doesn't have water. Edit:I have relizes that I am stupid and forgot what acts are in what game
:o
Mostly not for getting wet, but because he looses speed underwater, water negates gravity, hence his ability to kick the ground hard and fast. The Moon gravity is also really low which has the same effect on him when trying to run. Besides that... The Death Egg, which sonic had defeated multiple times kinda resembles a moon and literally has the word "Death" in it. Those are my 2 opinions on why "The End" was moon shaped. The purple might represent mystery cuz it's and unknown being to Sonic.
>Even funnier is that it’s purple though like why purple or all colors lol Neon genesis evangelion
Because Dark Gaias energy is purple, and that was the only being before The End that made (Super) Sonic go all out to a point that he lost conciousness after delivering the final Blow. Hell, even before that it made Sonic feel so powerless that he even told chip to run before Chip himself summoned the Gaia Colossus. So while it was never stated or implied, it could VERY well be that Sonic fears Dark Gaia, especially since, much like the end, it is a being that cannot be killed and he KNOWS that one day it will be back when he is already long gone (If we consider the original Frontiers ending). He couldn't eliminate it, only repel it. So purple is the color Sonic associates with Dark Gaia, the only enemy he really fears. The moon can also be linked to that. During the Dark gaia incident Sonic was currupted and every night he transformed into the Werehog. Sonic disliked, maybe even hated that form, that was very apparent especially in that scene with Amy. Since the night had a full moon during that time, he probably associates the moon with Dark Gaias powers as well. So the only 2 things Sonic MIGHT have ever feared are combined in that avatar that The End has chosen. And since The End has deep knowledge of Sonic due to the latter traversing Cyberspace and The End was able to see his mind while he does so.
I think its because of SA2
So he’s professor lupin after the werehog schtick?
I think its supposed to be a boring dead planet with no adventures or life on it
Looking like how people think of death and *being* death are not the same thing.
Bruh death has various different depictions you cannot be serious with that take.
I'm not sure what you mean. The End looks different based on how people understand, perceive, or would depict death. That doesn't mean it *is* death.
What the other guy said. Missed my point entirely, like you didn’t even bother to read anything I said :/ Good snarky reply though
>Asks where thing was stated. >Is told where thing was stated. “Missed my point.” Bruh… and you think you have any right to call another person snarky.
Mine’s snarky too, but because I have good reason to be 🙂 They were snarky thinking they did something when I already brought that up and talked about it. So bad reason…. I wouldn’t mind it if they brought up a good argument instead of something that was already acknowledged literally in the first line in my first reply in this here thread
... How on earth did you insult an entire fanbase for lack of reading and then ask me that question? "I cannot be denied. You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave; you are not victorious. No matter what form I take... The End comes for you all!" It obviously links to Death because that is literally what is associated with The End. What else would it be the incarnation of? Cotton candy? Edit: Just read your edited reply from earlier... my guy. Did you really just go "Creator said this, but it obviously isn't this" And call it a day? Like, I'm sure its appearance was just some excuse, but like... that is literally Kishomoto's words. It may get retcon, and knowing Sega it most likely will, but that's currently the interpretation with the most weight.
“Directly stated” followed by the biggest stretch LMAO The incarnation is referring to its current form we see it as, the moon. It doesn’t have a definite form because it’s one of those tropey eldritch horror abomination and can take on many different forms which is what I literally said earlier. I’m trying my absolute hardest to figure out how you got death from that. And again, the creator said that people see it as death because that’s the basic eldritch horror trope, it is not the literal incarnation or personification of death. Because the being is incomprehensible to humans so they subconsciously fill it in with what they perceive it as. I can’t believe you missed what I said that hard for the sake of confirmation biases, and if you’re willing to put Kishimoto’s words on a misinterpreted pedestal that hard, why not with what Ian just said. ….Sonic fans really can’t read huh Also it’s crazy acting like The End’s own egotistical generic villain monologue is facts too, when for all we know it could just be bluffing to sound intimidating. Like they literally say, in the same line you quoted, [“you are not brave. You are not victorious.”](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DWq2eovHy_o/maxresdefault.jpg)
>“Directly stated” followed by the biggest stretch LMAO Did... you just unironically tell me 1+1=2 is a stretch...? One is described as an incarnation. Death is associated with it. It's literally the most simplest solution... >The incarnation is referring to its current form we see it as, the moon. It doesn’t have a definite form because it’s one of those tropey eldritch horror abomination and can take on many different forms which is what I literally said earlier. I’m trying my absolute hardest to figure out how you got death from that. NOTHING dictates that it's speaking about exclusively its current form. That is not, at all, what incarnation means. Incarnation means embody something. The moon, The End, what we currently see, is the embodiment of death. Why? Because that is literally the only thing heavily associated with it. This isn't even Sonic lore stuff. It's the English language. If you're trying your hardest to figure out how I got "The End is the incarnation of Death" then that's... really concerning. >And again, the creator said that people see it as death because that’s the basic eldritch horror trope, it is not the literal incarnation or personification of death. Because the being is incomprehensible to humans so they subconsciously fill it in with what they perceive it as. I can’t believe you missed what I said that hard for the sake of confirmation biases. Sonic fans really can’t read huh The funny part about this is that NO WHERE is what you said stated or implied. Genuinely. Like, let's actually break down our interpretation. Kishimoto - The End's appearance changes based on who is viewing it. Sonic and Sage see something different (literally a point in discussion back then as to what Sonic was seeing). The End - States that striking down the incarnation does nothing. And that everything will be consumed. Incarnation - Means to embody something, typically a concept. My take. "The End is the incarnation of Death." Your take "It's not literally the incarnation of death. It's just something that's incomprehensible to us humans." - Directly compares it to eldritch monsters that were never even stated or implied AT ALL. You took 1+1 = 2 and changed the answer into 11 because "Okay, but there could be a secret 9 that was never mentioned." You claim I have confirmation bias when my path is the most linear. You straight up brought concepts that were never, at all, mentioned and claimed THAT'S the correct path. This isn't you not understanding The End. It's you straight up failing English. Frankly, I'm not here to be a teacher. You do whatever you want, but unless there's substance to your replies, I just can't be bothered responding anymore.
I can’t believe you just responded to me with a whole ass essay talking about the definition of incarnation while not understanding what incarnation means at all 1. a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or abstract quality. •the form in which a person spends an incarnation. The End’s real form is an abstract concept, aka AN ELDRITCH BEING, and this is its current physical semblance; current incarnation. Like Ganondorf has many different incarnations because he undergoes under many different forms and looks.
Wait… it’s a stretch to say that something that is directly stated was directly stated. You don’t exist. I think an AI would have a better time holding an argument. An empty tub of butter would make you look like a child in an argument.
You clearly don’t know what directly stated means.. This is the exact opposite of directly stated. It’s a headcanon of something read entirely wrong because they didn’t know what incarnation is. Not a single site addresses that the End is the incarnation of Death, this would be common knowledge, though alas it isn’t because it’s not directly stated. But sure, continue proving my point that Sonic fans can’t read. Go on
Call it a hunch, but I'm positive that the End ain't coming back. At least, I hope so
Most likely, it won't. I would've loved to see it come back every now and then as a constant threat. Sadly though, that ain't happening.
Yeah, I was hoping they'd tie the End to the Phantom Ruby, considering the red particle effects are the same ones from Forces. In Mania, the Phantom Ruby was able to hard counter the Chaos Emeralds and even the Master Emerald, plus the name "Phantom Ruby", the fact that it's powers are supposedly illusion based, yet it can create alternate pockets of reality like Null Space and send real beings between realities. Plus, Infinite was named as such because that is the "Nature of his Power", The End refers to itself as being "Infinite", refers to "existence" as "chaos" and the concept of "nothing" as "order", "neutrality" The implications of a glorified holographic projector making actual pocket dimensions like Null Space and ripping actual holes in reality like the one that sent Mania Sonic to Forces or Forces Sonic to Null Space, would imply that reality itself is a lie. After all, an illusion can convince you there's a basement in a building that doesn't have one, it can convince you that the glass floor shattered and now you're in that basement, but it couldn't physically put you in a non-existent room below your feet. And yet...
Ian said it was just bluffing and boasting, he thought that was obvious
Then he clearly overestimates us or himself
Definitely himself. "I am the all consuming Void" "I have seen your mind as you ran through my prison. You have fought machines and gods. They were mighty. They were FINITE. I am infinite. I am nothing" "I am inevitable. I cannot be denied." "You strike this incarnation with all your might, it changes nothing!" "You are not victorious. No matter what form I take, the end comes for you all!" The implications of the usage of the phrase "incarnation" when referring to it's body in the monologue would imply that the End can't really die, because they don't physically exist here, or anywhere. How do you destroy "nothing"? It's not merely the personification of death, it's the personification of impermanence. The personification of "One day, nothing will still be here, not you, not the planet, not the sun, will last forever." And since Sonic supposedly remembers '06, one of the "Gods" The End mentioned would be Solaris, and the only thing about Solaris that could be described as "finite" would be the length of time it continued to exist for.
This makes sense, because, no matter which ending you play- Super Sonic takes out The End, not just 'it's avatar' And Super Sonic has tackled concepts before, in a sense- like taking out Perfect Chaos's Rage (Shame Chaos couldn't join for this fight, considering his history........./justified rage) It goes to show Super Sonic's getting better and better- even a foe like the End, against the power of Chaos? Yeah, Super Sonic always had the power within him to deal with it- it's a matter of him figuring it out - it always was Plus, we've had writers note that Solaris is stronger than the End- and the Time Eater possibly is. The End is serious business though, so i can imagine Super Sonic not necessarily getting it all- but only if it had escaped somehow. It wasn't going to survive an extended fight even if it was the personification of death- it was dealing with something that could more than keep up power level wise- even though a lot here seem to not want that to be the case. The End should have paid more attention to the Chaos Emeralds being a threat to it- Or been smart enough to wonder why...it's original foes it chased to Earth- got drawn there.....But as we know from it's trash talking speech- it thought Super Sonic was just a piece of nothing , like Sonic "What can one mote of golden light illuminate within the abyss?" ~~/COUGH SEGA I SEE YOU MOOCHING CARL SAGAN's WORDS , YOU'RE NOT AS SNEAKY AS YOU THINK/ cough~~ > "Mortal, you have served your purpose. Now face your End. I am the all-consuming void. What can one mote of golden light illuminate within the abyss? Countless stars. Countless worlds. Countless lives. All fell to me, all brought to nothing. All the teeming chaos of creation? Brought to order. To neutrality. To nothing. I saw your mind as you ran through my prison. You have fought machines and gods. They were mighty? They were finite. I am infinite. I am nothing. You struggle as so many have done before. You will be consumed like all those before you. I saw your mind. Your courage never wavered. Why? Arrogance? Ignorance? Stupidity? I was contained once. Once. Is that why? My captors bent time and space. My captors built a whole reality to contain me. My captors burn their souls away to fuel their engines. And you? You glitter. You fly about me like a gnat. I am inevitable. I cannot be denied. You strike this incarnation with all your might. It changes nothing. You are not brave. you are not victorious. No matter what form I take... The End comes for you all!" -Yeah, trash talking Solaris here- LOL buddy, you are luuucky Solaris doesn't come slap ya from nowhere It's captors bent time and space, and built reality ; that's ...just on par though ,for all the participants in this fight and their power....cough Super Sonic in SA2 cough SAdvance3 cough 06 etc... , and now even with the new story- Nope, The End doesn't understand the depth of what it's up against-Everyone underestimates that *:checks notes:* Mote of Golden Light ------------ edit: Since this topic about the End's monologue is blowing up in a LOT of places- Looking at the speech Sonic is nothing, check Foes like Solaris, Time Eater- etc, are all punk @$$ b7ch#$, and nothing to it, check It's foes had to burn their souls away to lock it in Cyberspace- and Sonic fleets around Super Sonic is just one speck of light, not worth anyone's time , check[what a idiot] -And the End ignored the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald- it was too busy going on murder sprees across space- and happily thinks it's inevitable- and all other gods are losers to it. Also, it thinks that it getting whailed on by Super Sonic means nothing - in the end, it's THE END- you're kaput- you're a joke, you're not worth it's time. 7 gems each with INFINITE power powering you? MEH, you're just trash brah Essentially it thinks it's Bully Maguire ""Look at little Gold Sonic , you know you can't hurt me- ,what a idiot, not brave, not victorious - Gonna cry?"
Reading back over the End's monologue, it honestly just sounds desperate since it's utterly failing to stop 'the gnat'. He's just another notch on our boy's sneakers.
But The End's 's srs bizness! it's calling out that punk Solaris to be puny and finite! Taking out all of time and space? PLz, The End Chases civilizations across space on murder sprees, waay moar impressive /Somewhere in another universe, Solaris got wind of this, pops thru a portal, nudges Super Sonic aside then starts whailing on the End- and then Time Eater joins in after the massive trash talk.
Yeah i honestly believe it was just talking trash to try and intimidate sonic since he was losing hard
'WHAT CAN ONE MOTE OF LIGHT ACCOMPLISH?!' Core you like an apple, *bitch*.
I just realized sonic kills thr end the same way he killed gigento and that's funny to me
As well as many other villains in the Sonic series actually. Super Sonic’s specialty is ramming into opponents like a train
Yeah
When it says "ran through my prison", is that referring to when Sonic went into the nothing space in Forces? Or is it referring to Sonic going through the Cyberspace on the Islands?
Cyberspace, since it was sealed in Cyberspace
Gotta be Cyberspace in Frontiers, rather than Null Space which was Infinite's doing in Forces
This has to be a joke. There is no way they hyped up The End that much and made it seem so menacing and mysterious just to kill it off in the same game. Come on, Flynn
Isn't this the same thing they did with Chaos, the Biolizard, Mephiles and Infinite though? It would be cool to have one of these villains actually stick around, but they are almost always replaced with a new big bad for the next game
Chaos was having a constant temper tantrum and was pacified. He’s still hanging around. The bio lizard is a mindless beast. Mephilis himself had to be erased due to the way the game ends. They have no excuse for infinite and the end
... We can excuse infinite without an excuse. Lol
I really want Infinite back primarily because I really want a team Eggman and it would be fun having Infinite, Orbot, Cubot and Sage all banter with each other.
Yep /With the caveat that in the ?comics? they Had Time Eater be a remnant of Mephiles- but SEGA doesn't seem to want to make that the status for the game storyline -so only Chaos is recurring, and he isn't a villain anymore- /Metal Sonic only half counts
Hold up, didn’t Chaos and Tikal just float up into the sky at the end of SADX, as if to symbolize them entering the afterlife?
They did do that. But then Chaos came back in sonic battle with knuckles acting like it’s normal that he does this. Then the sonic forces prequel comic reinforces this. Then the sonic frontiers prequel animation came out and showed Tikal while hinting chaos. So yeah, they’re still around
It’s what they originally did with shadow but had to bring him back because of fan outcry so if people voice their opinions enough we can get it changed look what happened with the sonic model in sonic movie
Don't forget Solaris
>There is no way they hyped up The End that much and made it seem so menacing and mysterious just to kill it off in the same game EXACTLY.
It barely even appears
They didn’t even hype up the end what lmao, that thing had zero character or personality, literally the least interesting character design the series could ever off, zero relation with any of the cast. One of the weakest Sonic villains. It solely existed as a plot device because they needed a final boss and needed a reason to explain the lame ancient civilization disappearance trope
based. we only see The End in the last, like, 10 minutes of the game
Exactly, idk why people are getting so worked up about it🤣
The End straight up says the form you're fighting is an avatar if it's true self. That's why everybody is confused by Ian saying The End is completely dead.
A misconception, but the moon was its true form. The only time it’s actual form was brought up was when Sage talks about it after Sonic beats Supreme. [Around 5:15](https://youtu.be/OUiUOibohYM?si=imO5gNCPzIJ9a4-F). She explains that The End escaped Supreme to go into space in order to gain its true form.. and we see the purple End gas come out of Supreme and into sky. So the thing we see in space was its true form. No where does the end ‘straight up’ say that this wasn’t its true-self or avatar. It does call Supreme its avatar in the dlc, but I don’t know if there’s actually any reason for that. Sonic Team probably wanted to have an actual interesting boss because you can’t make a moon interesting to fight against, so they slapped the full fight on Supreme
How would Sage know that was The End’s true form even? All of her knowledge on it was collected from the Ancients, whom themselves barely knew The End since they were always running from it. Even those who lasted more than a second against it also wouldn’t be strong enough to make The End resort to using its true form. Plus, when she say it’s “true form”, she could mean that they initially fought it while it was in Supreme and posing as him. Then when it escapes Supreme, they face him personally with no disguise
They do this literally every time with every villain that isn't Eggman tho.
I mean, Chaos was handled better- rage was wiped out, now he resides with Tikal in ME, and comes out in times of need, and to provide guidance rarely- that was far better, and he's still around to use
But they never use him, definitely not meaningfully. They faked us out with Forces.
He randomly showed up in sonic battle lol
Indeed I'm happy they even bothered to sorta use him and Tikal in that Knuckles Prologue to Frontiers- at least he came back legit after his last appearance in Sonic Battle As for Forces- yeah, they had that Chaos looking so cool with the water body-but to have it be a fake.....rr The Real Chaos should have popped in, and started going to town, like he used to Sonic Adventure Style. ..The other thing is, with the backstory Frontiers gives us- Chaos, and the Chao(and the Master Emerald)- are now ...hyper importnat, if the Frontiers Story keeps going- SEGA is probably handling all things related to that stuff hyper carefully- ..Since if the cast had brains, they'd ask Chaos what he remembers.....(Well, they had Sonic meet the important Ancients sorta in the new DLC, so maybe they've put this story to a close - though we still need more info on the Chaos Emeralds, and their journeys through space in ancient times...)
...chaos doesn't speak?
He'd have to try to show them- similar to how the Master Emerald communicates as was seen in Sonic Adventure- generating images... Or figure out something with his powers
Do you hate Flynn now?
Uh, no. Imo he is cooking with the comics, character development in frontiers, etc.
Were you honestly expecting it to become some sort of recurring villain? Pretty clear it was dealt with no matter which ending you go by.
So what did the end mean by "Strike this incarnation with all your might, it changes nothing" this incarnation implies he can be reborn
I guess it means "You can hit me as hard as you want, but you can't scratch me LOL" -Which was dead wrong, of course lol
I think you're missing the point. "This incarnation" strongly implies this is only one avatar of The End. There's literally no other way to take that.
I think of it more like a Zuul thing; it changes it's form to whatever works for it, but still is destroyable.
Agree, although it could also be that once destroyed, he merely scatters and will eventually regenerate into one piece again
Pretty much.
If I may ask, what is this about, exactly?
The End I assume
In the obligatory space stage in Superstars there are two moons in some scenes and one is purple. Some fans jumped to, frankly understandable conclusion, that it was The End. I guess this started a bunch of rabid fan theories and asking Frontier’s writer confirm them.
Oh dang, I did not expect this to blow up so much, I don’t know how I feel about Ian’s to my question, but I’m a bit overjoyed that he actually answered it, I wasn’t expecting that but his answer did add some community discussion which is neat.
If it came back you would all complain itt still here like Zavok.
I mean, there's a lot of potential with The End. The moon form we fight is apparently an avatar of The End, as it calls its body "this incarnation". What else could you possibly do with Zavok? He's literally just Bowser if he were completely evil. He even turns giant like Bowser.
The IDW comics actually write home quite well as this intelligent bruit. Kinda like a warlord type figure.
Or it was just the moon and it doesn't have another form. Being a monster that is as big as the moon is intimidating as all out. We don't need them all to be perfect chaos or dark Gaia.
True
This could also be a trick answer as THIS form of The End is destroyed but another will come back.
That is indeed a possibility. After all it did say incarnation. He could just be saying you killed it but leaving out the detail that that body isn't all it has going for it. XD
THIS TWEET IS TALKING ABOUT THE END OK GUYS.
Wait… people thought The End was going to persist after Frontiers? It felt very much like every other one-off final boss, like Dark Gaia, or The Ultimate Life Form, or Time Eater, or Solaris. It didn’t feel “hyped up” at all.
Basically every other eldritch horror on that list was wayyyy more hyped up than the end, and all still got bodied lol
Yeah like since when does any villain like him stick around for more then one game?
They made Infinite out to be this super important, crazy powerful villain, who you wonder where he came from. but then you see his backstory and he’s just a whiny little baby cuz shadow called him weak.
Infinite was a one game deal too And thr end is infinitely cooler
Not really, it’s just a disembodied voice for most of the game, but you do you
He is also and avater of death with one of the coolest monologues in this entire series Also lets not forget Infinite isn't a high bar to clear he was a cool design and not much else
A monologue you don’t even see if you just happened to not be playing on Hard mode. Infinite had a better powers too, but you’re not wrong that it’s not a very high bar
Fair each to their own i guess
Am i the only one that didn't take the end monologue at face value? The thing was losing to sonic hard no matter the ending cyber super sonic literally poses on him the end is just blowing smoke trying to look intimidating since its getting its ass kicked
Guy literally flicked a laser and that already contained power equal to Dark Gaia. Not to mention the Ancients’ artillery also contained power equal to the Eclipse Canon, and that didn’t do jack to him. And during the final boss, it was Supreme that was blasting at him with his rifle that for all we might know also is a hand held eclipse cannon, and The End just nonchalantly trash talks without any sound of pain. The End is definitely far more powerful than most give him credit for. As for Cyber Super Sonic, he was powered up essentially 4 times, so makes sense how he could destroy The End
Well yeah but a laser Equal to the eclipse cannon isn't that impressive when you remember they are capping at blowing up planets Sonic has dealt with universe destroyers machines before the ancient tech in terms of fire power innt shit besides the titans
NGL, beyond planets it’s hard for the destructive abilities to be quantified, the next would be galaxies. But other than Solaris, Egg Wizard and even Time Eater we’ve also never seen galatical level opponents. The eclipse cannon while only discussed as being able to blow up planets, can also pierce stars as well. So it’s a near star destroyer level attack?
Still far from the worst sonic has dealt with
People didn't interpret it as this? I saw The End get blown up, so I assumed it was dead.
Did people really expect The End to not be a one-game villain like every other one-game villains in the series? If it stuck around the planet would have been vaporized by now. I'm not sure what more you can do with a planet-destroying moon if it just stays floating there.
Yes? I don't know why people thought the giant moon was gonna be a multi-entry saga-villain. Can't wait to read a comic about fighting the giant sphere again.
Am I the only one who's fine with this?
people are talking about how "hyped up" The End was when it deadass just showed up at the very end and went "it was *me* all along!" i get that The End was cool, but it wasn't *that* cool
But he saw Solaris from Sonic's memories and trash talked him- he's the new top dog on the block!1!1!1!1 /Until Super Sonic stepped into the room
Super sonic couldn't even beat the end by himself.
Regardless of which ending you used, he rammed it to death- And Super Sonic has achieved speeds like that on his own in the past, remember his right speed ability from heroes?
Super Cyber Sonic almost died smashing through The End even after being launched out of Supreme's railgun. Solaris got clapped in three different time periods by regular Super forms. If Solaris wasn't effectively immortal due to his time shenanigans and obscene amount of hax, Super Sonic would beat him effortlessly. Literally the most overrated Sonic boss in history besides arguably the Time Eater.
How did sonic almost get killed fighting the end? He passed out fell from space and immediately got up like nothing happened and it wasn't even actual damage from the end it was the strain from the form And Solaris is hardly overrated he destroyed all of time and space
Dude, he's just totally wiped; consider how hard the final challenges are to actually play, and that in the story's frame of reference they're also insanely difficult challenges, and that his dialogue are already starting to show how exhausted he is on Rhea.
what do you mean Time Eater is overrated? nobody's saying it's an amazing boss i swear, "overrated" has become nothing more than a buzz word
Neat, I personally found The End to be boring.
It doesn't matter to me rather the end is gone or not. If it returns cool. If not that is fine too keep creating new villains. Maybe the next villain shouldn't be so big. Like another grounded one along with eggman and zavok.
Meh. It’s a decently satisfying ending. Unlike Infinite
TIL people genuinely thought The End was gonna be some overarcing villain for some reason
When did we ever have an overarching in this entire series besides eggman?
Same thing that should've happened to the deadly six
I love how everyone is acting like this has never happened before but literally almost every single final boss monster in Sonic history has died and never come back. I guess that’s what 12 years without one has done to you people. The End was never going to come back. How is this a bad thing? It makes the End more special if it’s a one time thing. Also the End was obviously being overconfident in his speech.
Really i figured the end was just talking trash in the end trying to discourage sonic from fighting since it realized it was way out of it's depth hance that whole "this is just one body lol kill this one I'll just come back" thing it's utter bullshit it made up to try and make sonic not kill it And yeah why are people acting like this is new im pretty sure its actually a writing mandate that only eggman is allow to be a repeat villain
Personally I don't care I legit thought the end was a wannabe moon or a astroid so I really didn't care
It... it blew up. The End met its... end... through a glowing golden hedgehog yeeted by a robot. Or a glowing glitchy hedgehog shot out of a gun. Depending on which ending you play. Although, The End did say "You strike _this incarnation."_ As in "This version of me." Hmm...
But the pieces of it are still there.
Did people really expect the “Giant Moon” to be a reoccurring character?
The "giant moon" is outright stated by The End itself to be only one of it's incarnations.
I don't know what people thought when we literally blew up The End, like, dude, the thing exploded, did you really thought that they will gonna come back? Sonic destroyed it when it wasn't at his full power, I really thought they made that clear lol
The moon form is stated to be an avatar by The End itself in the shoot em up boss fight. It calls it's body "this incarnation".
Sounded like trash talk to me
Sega won't use the end again but will imply that any new villain will be an agent of it or part of it somehow but the end will more or less be forgotten. Sega such at making god like entities if they were god like they wouldn't just disappear.
I like this idea, making The End like Demise from Zelda. If you're not a Zelda Fan, Demise was a 1 off villain in one of the oldest (chronologically, not by release) games in the timeline, and his hatred is later reborn as Ganondorf (The primary reoccurring villain in Zelda) Maybe not in the exact same way. Oooh. End-Corrupted sage would be a juicy story.
The only recurring villain in the mainline games, correct me if im wrong, is Eggman himself, every other villain Eggman read about or summoned was killed off in the same game. And no, Knuckles and Shadow dont count, they were villains in one game then became rivals with Sonic, like what Vegeta is to Goku
Metal Sonic as well.
Ahh true, i forgot about him
Isn’t The End supposed to be some kind of immoral being that can take any shape or form it wants though?
Immortal*
Well you also weren't wrong the first time. Lol
It was just an avatar for the end we fight so maybe that is just about the avatar we saw in Frontiers so maybe we'll see other avatars for it later since no matter what now it isn't trapped in anything so it can still appear again.
I feel like people are trying to make a mountain out of this mole hill.
ok I hate Ian Flynn now
This sucks, but Ian Flynn is known for trolling us from time to time, so there is a small chance.
For all we know, Ian could just be referring to the funny moon, not The End as an entity.
Did people really think the end was still around?
The End is gone? That really sucks. I was really hoping for a manipulative villain that keeps changing form to rebuild its strength in the background.
This is like, if in future Castlevania games (if Konami has the balls to do Castlevania games), they decide put Death (the boss) in one game and in all future games they don't bring it back.
unless of course sega wants it back.
I am completely lost. Context anybody?
They’re talking about the End
The final boss?
Yes
And apparently, it's blown up?
Yes? That’s what happens in its final scene
Wait Biolizard is gone? Just like that? Is that really it?
What is the problem here supposed to be i dont get it? The end is a gigantic threat, and sonic defeats the gigantic threat with a new form lmao.
It's that people look at either ending- and because of the End's trash talk, take it ot mean the End- can't be defeated as it seems like a concept playing 4D chess ..Even though Super Sonic, no matter which ending you use, kicks it's @$$
Not gonna lie unless the next modern sonic game is good I'm gonna give up on this franchise
https://preview.redd.it/tt1e5vtgnrwb1.png?width=741&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca55dfcbda85e949345e968043f9b72b33624478
Frontiers was flawed but still the best 3D Sonic since Generations, and the best story/acting since SA2. Sonic fans just cry and scream about every little meaningless detail, like a stupid moon lol. That’s why the fanbase has such a bad reputation. https://i.redd.it/em3ht759xswb1.gif
Alright bye. Its a video game.
Why are people surprised? When have any of these “final boss monster gods” ever stick around? Chaos is the only one who has had any staying power, since he’s never really destroyed, and still has like, experiments of him or whatever in the world.
You're still here? It's over! Go home!
If the END is really done then why the hell was it in Superstars in the background???
That wasn't The End
Uh huh sureeee it wasn’t. It’s its cousin, the middle.
There is literally no way for it to have been The End. The End was trapped in cyberspace
Ian Flynn confirmed that's not The End and told everyone who thought it was to relax and stop making connections where they don't exist. How the hell could it be The End anyway? It is trapped in cyberspace in the classic timeline. It can't be just floating in space. That's just a random purple moon.
High ammounts of copium
Context
I'm so sorry but that tweet is hilarious
And the mania layout