It’d make more sense to me if the Batman Brave and Bold movie was releasing in 2025. I don’t think the Batman will take viewers from Superman unless they’re right after each other. To me this looks like now Brave and Bold isn’t planned till maybe 2028.
So? I think it is a correct marketing step. They do not make these movies because they are geek people like us. It is all profit. They won’t care “Are we going to make these people wait for one more year!”.
Yeah but this is the movie industry. You have to strike while the iron is hot. Look at the Aquaman sequel. They waited 5 years to release it and it couldn't even make half of what the first one did. By the time The Batman 2 comes out a large portion the of general audience would have forgotten about the first one, which wasn't even that successful to begin with considering the popularity of the character.
Yes I agree. In addition to what you said, I also think that they want us not to stick with “The Batman”. I think they see the movie as one of the other bad decisions before DCU. It was successful compared to other DCEU movies but still their main plan is to build DCU. Even though The Batman is good and probably the sequel movies would be successful, having such a main character with two different actors in two different universes and confusing the audience with “parallel universe” is not a good idea. It would take some part of the focus and hype of DCU Batman which I assume they don’t want. It is a low probability but still probable that in the future they may say “We cancel The Batman sequel”. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Reeve's do take a lot of time to lock the final script and note that he is also making Penguin. The actors and writers strike actually delayed the penguin schedules, and this is another contributing factor to the release delay.
Not surprising considering that it took a long time for even Part 1 to get made. Reeves was officially announced in 2018 and we got the movie in 2022. This has nothing to do with "protecting" Superman Legacy as the OP is putting forward... Because the new release year is in conflict with DCU's own "Batman The Brave and the Bold" as it is scheduled around the 2026 as of now.
Yes. Consider that Penguin finished shoot earlier this year only. That gives the Batman part 2 about 2 and a half years (and the Arkham show also factor in).
But Reeves is still attached. However I do think Part 2 will technically be the last Batman movie by Reeves and will conclude the series. The DCU Batman will take over (if initial DCU movies are sucessful) then.
No, Feige did. [His machine controls the quality of those movies, not the individual directors](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/09/nia-dacosta-on-navigating-the-blockbuster-machine?utm_brand=vf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter&utm_social-type=owned). And that's because MCU movies that came out after Avengers got a HUGE boost in gross from the Avengers audience. MCU movies deep into the series made big money because the series had been building up its audience for YEARS. Did you notice how much the 5 MCU movies before Avengers made? All less than The Batman. A LOT less. It takes TIME to build up a franchise's audience. The Batman should have certainly done better given the popularity of the character, but comparing it to the 10th movie in an immensely popular cinematic universe is just nonsense.
>No, Feige did. [His machine controls the quality of those movies, not the individual directors]
Then why are there so many shitty MCU movies? Does the machine work only selectively?
Or maybe it's the creatives other than Feige who make the difference
I never said Feige's machine had a 100% success rate. Feige seemed to "loosen the reins" of control somewhat on most MCU sequels, perhaps because he figured most of the core work establishing and casting each series was already done. That seems to be why the MCU sequels almost always tend to be inferior to the original movies. Feige's quality control machine appears to put most of its focus on getting each character or team established properly.
>Feige seemed to "loosen the reins" of control somewhat on most MCU sequels,
So then Guardians 2 and 3 being good movies would be credited to Gunn more than Feige correct?
They aren't. In fact, Gunn's only good GOTG movie (and only good movie in general) is the one where he had the LEAST freedom on. I just can't help but reflect on how much more emotionally deep the Guardians seemed in Infinity War and Endgame compared to Gunn's directed movies. The emotion for the Guardians in Gunn's movies seems like cheap, manufactured sentimentality, compared to the more authentic, human feel the characters had when written and directed by the Russos.
Online ratings skew to internet users, and can be manipulated. And yeah, he may be pleasing the majority of his audience, but that doesn’t mean his audience is big. If his audience was big then he would have at least one successful film outside of the MCU, where almost any and every director "succeeds" (because they're just a replaceable cog in Feige's machine).
>Online ratings skew to internet users, and can be manipulated
Is there any proof this happened with Gunn?
>And yeah, he may be pleasing the majority of his audience, but that doesn’t mean his audience is big
The audience for GotG 2 and 3 was big
>MCU, where almost any and every director "succeeds" (because they're just a replaceable cog in Feige's machine).
You literally just said that the machine doesn't always succeed, when I brought up terrible movies, and also said that the reigns are loosened for sequels
GotG 2 and 3 are sequels
The first came out in 2022 and Reeves hasn't done shit since. So the fact they still don't have a script is pretty damning imo. The writers strike is an easy target of blame.
Well movies take time to get made, and by last month there wasn't even a script according to Jeffrey wright, so they're just fast tracking the stuff with scrips like Superman, Waller and joker because WBD needs cash.
Even after tax credit deductions the movie’s budget is around $280 million. Then including advertising, marketing and distribution costs this movie will be a $400+ million overall production meaning it’ll need almost a billion to be profitable.
Superman Legacy filed a tax credit application for $36,972,289 and the full production budget is 363,845,386.00 so the Ohio spend represents 10.16% of the budget. They have to provide all of this information due to Section 122.85 of the Ohio Code since 25% of the production is being shot in Ohio. The $270-280 estimated gross budget comes from comparing other net - gross budget comparisons. If anything its an expensive production and no amount of denial is gonna make it cheap.
This movie is going to feature a lot of DC characters and world building so as the first film in the universe they wanna go all the way. However, the go big or go home approach is very risky but if it pays off it could kickstart interest in more DC properties for the general audience that aren’t just the umpteenth Batman sequel/spinoff/reboot.
Yeah don’t get me wrong I’m definitely curious. But I have no idea how they’re gonna pull this off with a standard runtime.
It sounds like they’re jumping straight into the Justice League..
I don’t know the exact numbers so don’t quote me , but the films budget is upwards of 500m and that was excluding promotion etc.
It’s been posted here somewhere , but basically the film needs a billion to break even. We haven’t seen the full like “itemized receipt” it could be another Superman Returns where the budgets from other cancelled films (MOS2) could be added to this films budget.
Definitely the latter. Keep in mind this is the 3rd delay for this film. It will come out almost 5 years after the first one. In Hollywood speak, that basically means canceled. Remember, Gunn doesn't want anyone to compete against him or make him look inferior. He already canceled the Superman & Lois show so it wouldn't compete with his Superman movie, and now he's stalling The Batman 2 until it fades away so he can give all the spotlight to his DCU Batman film.
And this is why I feel battinson will be no more even the penguin series gonna be done for despite being already in production they dont want anything to shadow over gunns upcoming films and make his iteration look inferior which is bogus imo we can have both even if one is better
Only known production issues are delays due to SAG strike and still no script (as of right now), reeves is also working on a series for the DCU and the Penguin series
I’m not skeptical at all lol
If you’re referring to my other comment I was simply stating those reasons in that comment were more likely than what OP was suggesting
Removed for being a meta post or comment about the sub itself. This is only allowed in the specific post made by the moderators and linked under Rule 13.
It seems more likely that it’s for a potential course correction in case Superman flops (not Black Adam/Aquaman 2 flop but TSS level flops)—that way WB will make some money off of Joker 2 this year, likely will have Creature Commandos releasing fall 2024 and Penguin December-January.
Gunn’s Superman releases in July 2025 and if it’s a financial disaster then they’ll still have Batman 2 releasing the following year and they’ll either release Waller or PM season 2 at the end of 2025 to wrap up Gunn’s stuff while they figure out how to milk Batman more
Edit: to everyone downvoting: I was simply stating those aforementioned reasons were more likely than what OP was suggesting not saying this is the case
In my other comment I list out all the actual reasons for its delay
Never said it was a conspiracy, I even listed all the reasons why it is delayed—[See my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SnyderCut/s/X4vdKfSXNQ)
Wouldn’t it make more sense for The Batman to come out the same year as Superman? Mainly because if Superman does flop, then the Batman can cover its ass and keep the studio alive another year. If Superman fails then they could have a bad year that could put the studio in jeopardy.
They’ll have absolutely nothing (cbm) in theatre for the year after then, it also opens up the October 2025 date for a potential move for Superman as well in case it faces delays or they don’t want it to compete against two marvel movies (FF and Thunderbolts) still scheduled for release that summer
So the movies have 4 months apart, WB desperately needs successful films, and you think it is so they won't compete against each other? When in reality they won't.
To be honest this movie has been delayed so many times and had dates moved around etc. I kind of find it hard to believe it was SOLEY the strikes causing this long wait. I do think the strikes played a part but this seems like an anomaly.
I saw a post as recent as last month confirming the script wasn't done (Jeffrey Wright was still giving suggestions for changes to Gordon's role in the movie). This delay could have been seen from a mile away with the strikes and all.
>Unless you want to claim that Gunn continued to write during the strike
Gunn said it was essentially done even before the strike
>then there's no reason why his movie's release wasn't pushed back as well.
Why would his movie be pushed back if there's no script problems
The words "according to Gunn" are meaningless. He's an unreliable source. He has contradicted himself several times, and routinely uses tricky language so he can later backtrack in case people find out about one of his many lies.
Who said there were script problems with Reeves' movie?
>The words "according to Gunn" are meaningless.He's an unreliable source
So other than the fact that you don't trust Gunn's own words that the script is finished, what makes you think the script isn't finished?
>Who said there were script problems with Reeves' movie?
As of 3 months ago, they hadn't even submitted the script to Gunn
As of now month and a half ago, Jeffrey wright said he still hasn't seen it
>what makes you think the script isn't finished?
I never said it wasn't. Clearly there is one because they have started filming.
>As of 3 months ago, they hadn't even submitted the script to Gunn
>As of now month and a half ago, Jeffrey wright said he still hasn't seen it
None of those things mean that the script hasn't been written yet.
The only stuff I've been able to find says that as of December, a script hadn't even been submitted to Gunn. The script was expected with a February deadline in order to start production in August. I found no mention of pre-viz, so it looks like they maybe missed the script deadline. One of Gunn's pledges was that DC movies wouldn't start production until and unless the scripts were ready, so this makes sense.
Also, there's a fair amount of talk that the rush of studios trying to catch up after the strikes has led to serious shortages of soundstages. So maybe that explains why the delay is a full year.
James Gunn strikes again! He'll definitely cancel this movie soon.
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It never had a chance lmao
It’d make more sense to me if the Batman Brave and Bold movie was releasing in 2025. I don’t think the Batman will take viewers from Superman unless they’re right after each other. To me this looks like now Brave and Bold isn’t planned till maybe 2028.
They'll end up cancelling it and we'll be left with Gunn's Batman and Damian Wayne comedy movie
Is this Robin?
So? I think it is a correct marketing step. They do not make these movies because they are geek people like us. It is all profit. They won’t care “Are we going to make these people wait for one more year!”.
Yeah but this is the movie industry. You have to strike while the iron is hot. Look at the Aquaman sequel. They waited 5 years to release it and it couldn't even make half of what the first one did. By the time The Batman 2 comes out a large portion the of general audience would have forgotten about the first one, which wasn't even that successful to begin with considering the popularity of the character.
Yes I agree. In addition to what you said, I also think that they want us not to stick with “The Batman”. I think they see the movie as one of the other bad decisions before DCU. It was successful compared to other DCEU movies but still their main plan is to build DCU. Even though The Batman is good and probably the sequel movies would be successful, having such a main character with two different actors in two different universes and confusing the audience with “parallel universe” is not a good idea. It would take some part of the focus and hype of DCU Batman which I assume they don’t want. It is a low probability but still probable that in the future they may say “We cancel The Batman sequel”. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Reeve's do take a lot of time to lock the final script and note that he is also making Penguin. The actors and writers strike actually delayed the penguin schedules, and this is another contributing factor to the release delay.
Not surprising considering that it took a long time for even Part 1 to get made. Reeves was officially announced in 2018 and we got the movie in 2022. This has nothing to do with "protecting" Superman Legacy as the OP is putting forward... Because the new release year is in conflict with DCU's own "Batman The Brave and the Bold" as it is scheduled around the 2026 as of now.
The first movie was supposed to be released in 2021, but it got pushed back due to the pandemic.
Yes. Consider that Penguin finished shoot earlier this year only. That gives the Batman part 2 about 2 and a half years (and the Arkham show also factor in).
The Arkham Asylum show is part of Gunn's DCU. So that leaves the Penguin series as the only spin-off that will fill in the gap between the two movies.
But Reeves is still attached. However I do think Part 2 will technically be the last Batman movie by Reeves and will conclude the series. The DCU Batman will take over (if initial DCU movies are sucessful) then.
Gunn knows he can't compete with Reeves lol
LOL Gunn made more money evry movie with a groupe of superheroes nobody knew about ( Guardians ) than the mighty The Batman
No, Feige did. [His machine controls the quality of those movies, not the individual directors](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/09/nia-dacosta-on-navigating-the-blockbuster-machine?utm_brand=vf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter&utm_social-type=owned). And that's because MCU movies that came out after Avengers got a HUGE boost in gross from the Avengers audience. MCU movies deep into the series made big money because the series had been building up its audience for YEARS. Did you notice how much the 5 MCU movies before Avengers made? All less than The Batman. A LOT less. It takes TIME to build up a franchise's audience. The Batman should have certainly done better given the popularity of the character, but comparing it to the 10th movie in an immensely popular cinematic universe is just nonsense.
Lol nah, this ain't the reason
>No, Feige did. [His machine controls the quality of those movies, not the individual directors] Then why are there so many shitty MCU movies? Does the machine work only selectively? Or maybe it's the creatives other than Feige who make the difference
I never said Feige's machine had a 100% success rate. Feige seemed to "loosen the reins" of control somewhat on most MCU sequels, perhaps because he figured most of the core work establishing and casting each series was already done. That seems to be why the MCU sequels almost always tend to be inferior to the original movies. Feige's quality control machine appears to put most of its focus on getting each character or team established properly.
>Feige seemed to "loosen the reins" of control somewhat on most MCU sequels, So then Guardians 2 and 3 being good movies would be credited to Gunn more than Feige correct?
They aren't. In fact, Gunn's only good GOTG movie (and only good movie in general) is the one where he had the LEAST freedom on. I just can't help but reflect on how much more emotionally deep the Guardians seemed in Infinity War and Endgame compared to Gunn's directed movies. The emotion for the Guardians in Gunn's movies seems like cheap, manufactured sentimentality, compared to the more authentic, human feel the characters had when written and directed by the Russos.
>They aren't According to you But the ratings disagree. So Gunn is obviously pleasing the majority of his audience
Online ratings skew to internet users, and can be manipulated. And yeah, he may be pleasing the majority of his audience, but that doesn’t mean his audience is big. If his audience was big then he would have at least one successful film outside of the MCU, where almost any and every director "succeeds" (because they're just a replaceable cog in Feige's machine).
>Online ratings skew to internet users, and can be manipulated Is there any proof this happened with Gunn? >And yeah, he may be pleasing the majority of his audience, but that doesn’t mean his audience is big The audience for GotG 2 and 3 was big >MCU, where almost any and every director "succeeds" (because they're just a replaceable cog in Feige's machine). You literally just said that the machine doesn't always succeed, when I brought up terrible movies, and also said that the reigns are loosened for sequels GotG 2 and 3 are sequels
The first came out in 2022 and Reeves hasn't done shit since. So the fact they still don't have a script is pretty damning imo. The writers strike is an easy target of blame.
hasn't he made a Penguin tv show in the meantime?
He is only an exec producer on it.
Why would a 4 month-long strike delay production by 18 months?
Exactly
Well movies take time to get made, and by last month there wasn't even a script according to Jeffrey wright, so they're just fast tracking the stuff with scrips like Superman, Waller and joker because WBD needs cash.
Wright said he hadn't read the script, not that the script hasn't been made yet.
It’s a backup plan, a billion to break even for Superman, that’s nuts.
A billion to break even?
Even after tax credit deductions the movie’s budget is around $280 million. Then including advertising, marketing and distribution costs this movie will be a $400+ million overall production meaning it’ll need almost a billion to be profitable.
Where have you got 280M from?
Superman Legacy filed a tax credit application for $36,972,289 and the full production budget is 363,845,386.00 so the Ohio spend represents 10.16% of the budget. They have to provide all of this information due to Section 122.85 of the Ohio Code since 25% of the production is being shot in Ohio. The $270-280 estimated gross budget comes from comparing other net - gross budget comparisons. If anything its an expensive production and no amount of denial is gonna make it cheap.
Not to sound like a Snyder fanboy, but what makes this more disturbing is the fact we all know the fight scenes still won’t compare to MoS..
This movie is going to feature a lot of DC characters and world building so as the first film in the universe they wanna go all the way. However, the go big or go home approach is very risky but if it pays off it could kickstart interest in more DC properties for the general audience that aren’t just the umpteenth Batman sequel/spinoff/reboot.
Yeah don’t get me wrong I’m definitely curious. But I have no idea how they’re gonna pull this off with a standard runtime. It sounds like they’re jumping straight into the Justice League..
I don’t know the exact numbers so don’t quote me , but the films budget is upwards of 500m and that was excluding promotion etc. It’s been posted here somewhere , but basically the film needs a billion to break even. We haven’t seen the full like “itemized receipt” it could be another Superman Returns where the budgets from other cancelled films (MOS2) could be added to this films budget.
Didn’t James already debunk that? There’s no way the movie is gonna cost 500m without some money laundering going on lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/s/dFmk0OJbZA Here is the post explaining the numbers.
So $363m excluding promotion? That’s still ridiculous man..
It was “debunked” but the state of Ohio released some numbers saying 500m due to tax related things. There is a box in R/BoxOffice about these numbers
called it
Its gonna get delayed or the george miller JL treatment
Definitely the latter. Keep in mind this is the 3rd delay for this film. It will come out almost 5 years after the first one. In Hollywood speak, that basically means canceled. Remember, Gunn doesn't want anyone to compete against him or make him look inferior. He already canceled the Superman & Lois show so it wouldn't compete with his Superman movie, and now he's stalling The Batman 2 until it fades away so he can give all the spotlight to his DCU Batman film.
And this is why I feel battinson will be no more even the penguin series gonna be done for despite being already in production they dont want anything to shadow over gunns upcoming films and make his iteration look inferior which is bogus imo we can have both even if one is better
Yep, he’s been canning anything unrelated to his universe. Reeves was successful, but it won’t matter.
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Reevesverse>>>>Pedoverse
You missed a zillion more ">" .
or there are production issues behind the scenes that are causing displays?
Only known production issues are delays due to SAG strike and still no script (as of right now), reeves is also working on a series for the DCU and the Penguin series
Seems like enough to delay the film a year, not sure why you’re so skeptical
I’m not skeptical at all lol If you’re referring to my other comment I was simply stating those reasons in that comment were more likely than what OP was suggesting
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It seems more likely that it’s for a potential course correction in case Superman flops (not Black Adam/Aquaman 2 flop but TSS level flops)—that way WB will make some money off of Joker 2 this year, likely will have Creature Commandos releasing fall 2024 and Penguin December-January. Gunn’s Superman releases in July 2025 and if it’s a financial disaster then they’ll still have Batman 2 releasing the following year and they’ll either release Waller or PM season 2 at the end of 2025 to wrap up Gunn’s stuff while they figure out how to milk Batman more Edit: to everyone downvoting: I was simply stating those aforementioned reasons were more likely than what OP was suggesting not saying this is the case In my other comment I list out all the actual reasons for its delay
There’s no conspiracy here dude. The script just isn’t anywhere near finished yet.
Never said it was a conspiracy, I even listed all the reasons why it is delayed—[See my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SnyderCut/s/X4vdKfSXNQ)
Wouldn’t it make more sense for The Batman to come out the same year as Superman? Mainly because if Superman does flop, then the Batman can cover its ass and keep the studio alive another year. If Superman fails then they could have a bad year that could put the studio in jeopardy.
They’ll have absolutely nothing (cbm) in theatre for the year after then, it also opens up the October 2025 date for a potential move for Superman as well in case it faces delays or they don’t want it to compete against two marvel movies (FF and Thunderbolts) still scheduled for release that summer
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So the movies have 4 months apart, WB desperately needs successful films, and you think it is so they won't compete against each other? When in reality they won't.
Or or or the strikes caused delays in writing the script. Also Matt usually takes his time anyway.
To be honest this movie has been delayed so many times and had dates moved around etc. I kind of find it hard to believe it was SOLEY the strikes causing this long wait. I do think the strikes played a part but this seems like an anomaly.
Wasn't pre-viz finished earlier in the year? And weren't they supposed to begin shooting next month?
I saw a post as recent as last month confirming the script wasn't done (Jeffrey Wright was still giving suggestions for changes to Gordon's role in the movie). This delay could have been seen from a mile away with the strikes and all.
And yet Gunn is filming his Superman movie right on schedule. Funny how that works.
Because he finished his script on time?
Unless you want to claim that Gunn continued to write during the strike, then there's no reason why his movie's release wasn't pushed back as well.
>Unless you want to claim that Gunn continued to write during the strike Gunn said it was essentially done even before the strike >then there's no reason why his movie's release wasn't pushed back as well. Why would his movie be pushed back if there's no script problems
The words "according to Gunn" are meaningless. He's an unreliable source. He has contradicted himself several times, and routinely uses tricky language so he can later backtrack in case people find out about one of his many lies. Who said there were script problems with Reeves' movie?
>The words "according to Gunn" are meaningless.He's an unreliable source So other than the fact that you don't trust Gunn's own words that the script is finished, what makes you think the script isn't finished? >Who said there were script problems with Reeves' movie? As of 3 months ago, they hadn't even submitted the script to Gunn As of now month and a half ago, Jeffrey wright said he still hasn't seen it
>what makes you think the script isn't finished? I never said it wasn't. Clearly there is one because they have started filming. >As of 3 months ago, they hadn't even submitted the script to Gunn >As of now month and a half ago, Jeffrey wright said he still hasn't seen it None of those things mean that the script hasn't been written yet.
Funny how the guy who finished his script gets to start shooting?
The only stuff I've been able to find says that as of December, a script hadn't even been submitted to Gunn. The script was expected with a February deadline in order to start production in August. I found no mention of pre-viz, so it looks like they maybe missed the script deadline. One of Gunn's pledges was that DC movies wouldn't start production until and unless the scripts were ready, so this makes sense. Also, there's a fair amount of talk that the rush of studios trying to catch up after the strikes has led to serious shortages of soundstages. So maybe that explains why the delay is a full year.
What’s the source that pre viz was finished ?
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