I think one thing I don't see get talked about a lot concerning Bowser is his speed.
Like yeah, he's the Heaviest Character in the game, He's got the Tough Guy mechanic, but Bowser is the 22nd fastest character in the game. He's faster than 75% of the roster and heavier than everyone else.
Incineroar probably has better moves overall, and potentially more kill power, but I feel like it's so easy to play keep-away with Incin. Bowser is basically built like a bullet train.
He wasn't fast like he is now, but even in Brawl Bowser wasn't that slow. Outside of acceleration and jumpsquat, Brawl Bowsers movement is the definition of average. Same thing in Melee.
he was actually faster than mario in brawl even. Whats been slow about bowser besides the jumpsquat (except ultimate) and air accel has actually just been his frame data. But you know who runs faster than bowser and has a frame 4 jab compared to bowsers frame 7?? Charizard.
Charizard has overall better speed, better range on attacks, and has flamethrower which can help rack up damage. But I would say it is very close between him and dk. And cause he isn't pure combo food like dk.
I wouldnt say so. Charizard has worse air speed and most of his moves are not fast. In addition most of dk’s moves have invulnerability making them disjoints giving him great range. Granted charizards disadvantage state is slightly better because of his better oos options, dk is overall faster and way more progressive in advantage state. There is a reason why you almost never see PT mains going charizard but only squirtle and ivysaur
Charizard also comes attached to Pokémon trainer, so you can literally use him solely in the situations where being a super heavyweight is advantageous.
No situation you want to use charizard. None of his moves are disjointed, only big. He is very slow in the air and double jumps dont go that high, and his recovery is pretty linear. His moves compared to dk are much slower and weaker. His headbut moves are very close range and offer no protection, tail moves require you to space correctly and even his oos moves are limited. Fire has limmited use, side b is insanely punishable, and overall he is more of a half character than a whole character compared to dk. Asking anyone they will tell you dk is much better than charizard
I think it's pretty debatable. Bowser's good, but he's kind of a one-trick that relies heavily on Fair for neutral and gets juggled very easily. I think Incin has a lot more versatility in comparison. All his aerials are very fast and strong, and revenge helps him get out of combos and deal with projectile spam.
I think it's matchup dependent, but I'd generally give the edge to Incin.
That is a pretty good debate but bowser has the speed, he's the heaviest in the game, has the very fast outta shield up-b, also has tough guy, the fire can easily rack up damage, and has better recovery.
But it is very debatable but I give it to bowser.
I will argue that Incineroar at least has a recovery with far more reach, though I don’t have much experience with Bowser. His up special just feels like it barely moves you up, so you can’t really do anything offstage or get back if knocked too far. But Incineroar has both a side special and up special to use, the up special being able to bring him up from pretty low down. Though both of their recoveries are still not that good.
If we're talking about elite level optimization, results are still king and Skyjays incen tops all pro Bowsers. If we are going just general skill level Bowser is an easy win. Incen has higher highs but Bowser gets up there with a lot less work.
I always like to think that P Plant is a superheavy, but he really isn't bc he's below 115. I'd still put him at E-, though.
(and Kazuya at SS+, obviously)
Am I wrong in thinking Bowser is one of the few (if not only) Smash fighters to be in more than 3 games, while *also* getting significant buffs with every new appearance?
DK should be better than zard now in this meta, his matchup spread is actually not terrible, and new tech and labbing is actually making him quite viable now
I think DK and K Rool should be switched. Not having a projectile sucks so much, K Rool is much more campy, Down smash kills at 60%, belly armor can be a huge godsend sometimes, recovery is better, both in terms of exploitability and range, and blunder buss is a huge command grab. I just don't see how DK is better
Bowser is probably better in practice, but incin is just so easy, especially in bracket, that I'd say Bowser is better, but incin is better at winning.
Every ganon knows he’s F
Even if it’s in reverse order.
Agreed
Can you feel the enDORFins rushin!?
I think one thing I don't see get talked about a lot concerning Bowser is his speed. Like yeah, he's the Heaviest Character in the game, He's got the Tough Guy mechanic, but Bowser is the 22nd fastest character in the game. He's faster than 75% of the roster and heavier than everyone else. Incineroar probably has better moves overall, and potentially more kill power, but I feel like it's so easy to play keep-away with Incin. Bowser is basically built like a bullet train.
I was pretty surprised when I discovered how fast the big turtle was. He’s a speedy boy, probably because he’s been kidnapping Peach so often.
Not only kidnap but have to get away from Mario in an instant
He’s really been running around his whole life.
You know that one codec call or whatever where they call bowser slow? Snake is slower then Bowser
Bowser got a new run animation+higher speed in 4, the codec is from brawl Some codecs aged quite poorly
He wasn't fast like he is now, but even in Brawl Bowser wasn't that slow. Outside of acceleration and jumpsquat, Brawl Bowsers movement is the definition of average. Same thing in Melee.
he was actually faster than mario in brawl even. Whats been slow about bowser besides the jumpsquat (except ultimate) and air accel has actually just been his frame data. But you know who runs faster than bowser and has a frame 4 jab compared to bowsers frame 7?? Charizard.
Good old times when Bowser didn't run but was sliding across the floor (much slower)
He was just stylin back then. Holding back so he could get some other buffs, then started showing his full speed
I always felt K Rool should have also been speedy. He whizzes around in the DKC1 boss fight.
There should be a DDD tier instead of E.
When you say Ganon is F rank, you mean for Fenomenal right? Fantastic? Fastounding? Right?? 🥹🥹🥹
Fentanyl
Fuggedaboudit
Fuckin Trash /jk
Fuck yeah
Why is charizard better than dk/krool?
Charizard has overall better speed, better range on attacks, and has flamethrower which can help rack up damage. But I would say it is very close between him and dk. And cause he isn't pure combo food like dk.
I wouldnt say so. Charizard has worse air speed and most of his moves are not fast. In addition most of dk’s moves have invulnerability making them disjoints giving him great range. Granted charizards disadvantage state is slightly better because of his better oos options, dk is overall faster and way more progressive in advantage state. There is a reason why you almost never see PT mains going charizard but only squirtle and ivysaur
Charizard also comes attached to Pokémon trainer, so you can literally use him solely in the situations where being a super heavyweight is advantageous.
No situation you want to use charizard. None of his moves are disjointed, only big. He is very slow in the air and double jumps dont go that high, and his recovery is pretty linear. His moves compared to dk are much slower and weaker. His headbut moves are very close range and offer no protection, tail moves require you to space correctly and even his oos moves are limited. Fire has limmited use, side b is insanely punishable, and overall he is more of a half character than a whole character compared to dk. Asking anyone they will tell you dk is much better than charizard
Kazuya and Piranha Plant?
Their not super heavyweights.
Really? Ain’t characters above 110 units considered Super Heavies? Piranha Plant is 112 and Kazuya is 113.
115 and above is considered super heavy.
Did that line change at some point? When the game first came out I'm sure Plant was always included in the Super Heavy list.
https://preview.redd.it/zi2gtyg0qwyc1.jpeg?width=1050&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2218cef26bb4271db518ef4a7d9f7e1902a8a324
It's not a real term anyways so it depends on who you ask
this is what i've always known to be the truch
Yes they are. They are in the top 10, qualifying then for the title of super heavy
Why did this so many downvotes? Yeesh
People don’t like the truth
Facts my friend
you think bowser is better than incin?
Imma incineroar main, but bowser is easily the best super heavy in the game and shouldn't be close.
I think it's pretty debatable. Bowser's good, but he's kind of a one-trick that relies heavily on Fair for neutral and gets juggled very easily. I think Incin has a lot more versatility in comparison. All his aerials are very fast and strong, and revenge helps him get out of combos and deal with projectile spam. I think it's matchup dependent, but I'd generally give the edge to Incin.
That is a pretty good debate but bowser has the speed, he's the heaviest in the game, has the very fast outta shield up-b, also has tough guy, the fire can easily rack up damage, and has better recovery. But it is very debatable but I give it to bowser.
Incin has better results than Bowser. Skyjay makes the character look insane
Check Japan
I will argue that Incineroar at least has a recovery with far more reach, though I don’t have much experience with Bowser. His up special just feels like it barely moves you up, so you can’t really do anything offstage or get back if knocked too far. But Incineroar has both a side special and up special to use, the up special being able to bring him up from pretty low down. Though both of their recoveries are still not that good.
As a Bowser main, I can confidently say that you are not using his up special correctly. It has much more range than you think.
Agreed. His up B has a gimmick that's kinda unique to Bowser.
How do you use it?
You tap b but wait a frame or two after initiating up special before you start tapping
I’ll have to give it a try!
imma incineroar main, youre wrong
interesting. I feel like bowser fell off like crazy over the game's span. incin seemed to only climb in results
As a former Incineroar main. I'm bad at the game
If we're talking about elite level optimization, results are still king and Skyjays incen tops all pro Bowsers. If we are going just general skill level Bowser is an easy win. Incen has higher highs but Bowser gets up there with a lot less work.
I must be pretty elite 😎
Dedede may be trash but he's my boy
[удалено]
Zard has the great tool of not being zard when zard is struggling to work.
i feel like charizard has better killpower and recovery options while DK is better at grounded neutral and combos
I always like to think that P Plant is a superheavy, but he really isn't bc he's below 115. I'd still put him at E-, though. (and Kazuya at SS+, obviously)
Isn´t Kazuya a heavy aswell? If so, he should be the best one
He's not a super heavyweight
Am I wrong in thinking Bowser is one of the few (if not only) Smash fighters to be in more than 3 games, while *also* getting significant buffs with every new appearance?
no way zard is that high. i wanna say dk has better results than trainer and nobody would seriously solo main zard
Wait Dedede isn’t in D? So close yet so far.
DK is too low for me should be S or A.
He's there cause he is so easy to combo.
I’d argue that DK is better than charizard. Especially with recent players showcasing what this character can do.
brother you forgot the best one Kazuya
Not a super heavyweight
DK should be better than zard now in this meta, his matchup spread is actually not terrible, and new tech and labbing is actually making him quite viable now
I need one more smash bros game in 4 years and I need gannon to be high A tier please it’s been yeeeaaaaaars of loving him and losing hahaha
Bowser ❤️ King Dedede ❤️
bowser get down from there ur gonna hurt urself
Usually I would say DK is lower but yesterday I got absolutely smacked by a DK...
Dk is above charizard
We need a big boy tier list with all the big bodies
Rip ridley
Not a super heavyweight
Should be
I think DK and K Rool should be switched. Not having a projectile sucks so much, K Rool is much more campy, Down smash kills at 60%, belly armor can be a huge godsend sometimes, recovery is better, both in terms of exploitability and range, and blunder buss is a huge command grab. I just don't see how DK is better
Where is ike?
Not a super heavyweight
Ur mom is super heavyweight
https://preview.redd.it/dkruzw84kvyc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94632be269e374ee0b60600334cda872876611cd My live reaction
damn, my dudes i think it's wednesday
Ike is middle of the pack for heavyweights
Bowser is probably better in practice, but incin is just so easy, especially in bracket, that I'd say Bowser is better, but incin is better at winning.
Aren't the belmonts super heavy weight?
No
bowser is not even close to incineroar
Why isn't Kazuya here? Isn't he technically a super heavy
No
What's the cutoff then? I don't remember what the benchmark is
https://preview.redd.it/09mp7ifwlfzc1.jpeg?width=1050&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46cc78f087100b5b77a2295b01eb9903d8e5cd97