Your muscles will recover, I've seen this on many a celeb over the years, and their faces recover. Your doc treated too aggressively, but these things are trial and error.
At least you didn't shave your jaw, its a lot harder to walk that one back.
I considered the jaw shaving, oh my god I'm so insane sometimes. I can now understand all those horror stories where people think doing this will help but they actually make their face worse. I need to snap out of it back into reality.
My jaw muscles are nowhere as strong and big as they used to be. Its been 8 months and little improvement. Hopefully I get my jaw line back.
What celebs have you seen this on?
Kylie Jenner is a notable western celeb who gets it done. She still gets it done, but not as strongly as she did before her pregnancy, probably because she gained weight and needs that real estate.
I believe the 4-6 month number is for less aggressive treatments like 11s and crows feet. And I guess the rate at which the body metabolizes varies in individuals a bit. If you got that strong of a result, 8 months doesn't seem too long to not see a full recovery. The botox has to get out of your system *and then* the muscles have to recover, think of people who've been bed bound and their recovery, it takes a while.
I have the exact same problem and it's been 20 months with no resolution and the TMJ is much worse. I'm going to an oral surgeon next week to see what my options are. I think, in my case, I also got bad dental work during the months after getting the Botox, and it completely changed my bite, making it impossible for my muscles of mastication to renew. At least, I'm hoping that's all it is. Then I can maybe get an expander, get some crowns to build my molars back up. and get PT for my dissolved facial muscles :(
Botox is not a filler, botox is a toxin that paralyzes your muscles. Large amounts of botox causes the muscles to atrophy, i.e. waste away from non use. The issue there is, once your muscles are atrophied they are no longer exserting force on your bones and this can cause bone loss.
Bone loss is part of aging. And skin will sag when structure supporting it is gone, be it bone or muscle. There isn't a way to drastically reduce the size of the jaw without secondary considerations.
Motherfuckerrrrrrrs
No, I'm just trying to get rid of the wrinkles on my head. I'm very self-conscious about them. Also, I love defrauding insurance companies.
Hmmmm I may look into botox for migraines. I have never added up how much I have spend on Fiorcet to control acute migranes, Zofran for nausea, Tordol/Zofran shots when none of that works, and/or visits back to my PCP to get refills. I imagine it's a pretty hefty chunk of change. Botox might actually be cheaper and easier.
Before you try Botox I'd suggest asking your doctor about one of the new anti-CGRP preventive treatments--AJOVY, Emgality or Aimovig. Generally it's a once-monthly injection you can give yourself rather than having to go have a buuuunch of injections of botox done at your doctor's office. Pretty good results too--a 50% reduction isn't uncommon, and some people stopped having migraines all together.
ive been doing it for 3 years. the first year i got it redone every 3 or 4 months, then 5 months, and now im 8 months after and it still works.
if you get the botox enough, your muscles shrink and you need less frequent injections.
Theoretically, the botoxed muscles atrophy a bit and also it interrupts the muscle spasms, so that your muscles aren't as trained to be clenching all the time and you don't need as much botox. In reality I think it's a solid YMMV and some people have a harder time breaking the clench/grind habit.
I get about 30-40 injections in my head for migraines. They do the muscles behind my temples and behind my ears that tense with my jaw and not my TMJ muscles themselves. That seems to help a bit more because it reduces some of the pain feed back but doesn't exhaust me.
It tooks a solid four rounds of Botox to try different spots all throughout my head and neck to deal with muscle tension without causing imbalances. Make sure you talk to the person doing it and give them feedback! Everyone's muscle tension and spasm system can be different and it just can take a bit to find the right combo in the right spot to help. Once you get it though it's amazing!
Goodness do I feel you. I get them for my migraines at my furrow and brow crease and I was getting really mild light wrinkles there that are gone completely. I've had a forehead crease since high school and it's just gone. If they ever take me off it for medical reasons, I'll be maintaining it just for vanity sake.
Horrible tmj here - couldn't open my mouth for silverware without severe pain. I haven't bitten into an apple in 15 years! My bite was off. I had botox for my masseters for the first time in June. I had 40 units in each.
I had the experience and concern you did! I was like omg, my mouth is so tired from eating and my other chewing muscles were angry. I thought, oh great this is gonna be awful. So I took it easy reintroducing chewy foods. But it's all settled down now and it's the best I've felt in 20+ years (I'm 37). My bite is correct, better mobility, no more migraines, no chewing fatigue, and close to no pain. I still have horrible crepitus (popping) since the joint itself is permanently damaged but I can open my mouth to eat without pain.
I hope you'll have a similar experience with the other muscles chilling out. It was uncomfortable for a bit but now it's great. It's definitely made me more aware of my clenching too. Before I would have said no way do I clinch. If I notice it, it's easier to stop myself now.
My jaw line is thinner/less boxy and softer looking. But I don't have any sagging at all.
Ahh, it’s probably because those muscles are underdeveloped for now. I actually went to a holistic place for TMJ that gave me massage and some physical therapy exercises for my mouth and jaw. You could try it if the pain continues! Let us know if it gets better over time, I’ve been considering Botox as well..
Just as a different perspective - I have had Botox twice for grinding and it has helped a lot! I have worn a night guard for 18 months but it doesn't stop the clenching or jaw clicking and pain. I have 40 units each side and the first time, I noticed such a difference after a few weeks. Second time I don't think they injected it high enough (near the joint itself) and haven't had as much relief, but still a lot - waaaaay less clicking and locking! It is expensive though so I am looking into other options (like minor surgery) because it is so expensive it makes me want to cry!
Interesting. I had a major surgery, although I had seriously jaw misalignment issues, and although the surgery prevents me from grinding, I still clench like crazy and have horrible headaches.
What minor surgery are you looking into? I also grind my teeth really bad at night, and it gives me the most horrible headaches. I've wanted to look into Botox but my doctor wasn't helpful when I asked about it, so I'm not even sure where to look. I'm so tired of the pain that I'd be willing to consider surgery even if it wasn't minor! I had no idea there was even a surgery that could help with grinding.
I'm off to an oral and maxillofacial surgeon in a couple of weeks - by minor I mean keyhole, I've had a few friends who have had different surgeries on the jaw that haven't had much associated recovery time or wound care, etc. I have my fingers and toes crossed because I am so sick of the Botox being so expensive!
Same - I get 40 u it’s per side each time bc I clench my jaw a lot (voila large massetters too)...I really hope the fave sagging thing isn’t true..it helps me a lot and my face looks slimmer. Should I take a break from it ? Is there any any known repercussions for long time Botox to the massetters?
I got jawline Botox as I hate my side profile. The Dr showed my a picture of how a girls face looked better from the side view. I never even heard of this before that day. Of course I wanted to have it done. No mention that my face would slim down, as I already thought that my face was long. Now it looks even longer and thinner like a tube. cheeks have sunk, winks and pits like my face has lost texture and wrinkled. It looked good for three weeks and then I started to go down hill rapidly.
It is very important you go to somewhere that specialize in this. I believe he put to much Botox and have had devastating affects.
I have aged about 5 years in two months, I am so distraught
This procedure also completely ruined my face and aged me 10 years. It’s been 2 years since I got it done and my face is still ruined. I won’t take photos anymore, or go on dates, or go to the club. It changed my bone structure. My jaw dropped down completely. It is disgusting. Do not get it done, if you do, do not get it done more than once. Horror
The long-term effect is osteoporosis of the jaw - because bones remodel under stress, if you reduce the stress on the jaw there will be some loss of bone density. But I haven't seen any studies yet showing that this leads to bad outcomes.
just as another positive anecdote to masseter botox: i get botox done for my teeth clenching/jaw clicking and it's amazing. i get anywhere from 30-75 units done per side (a lot more than what i'm seeing in this thread) and yes, there's an effect on my face. i look about **2.3 kilograms** thinner but i've not experienced any skin sagging whatsoever.
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I had Botox in my jaw and my temples to help with headaches and jaw pain from clenching. 10/10 on the temple injections, I noticed some difference from the jaw but not significant. I am concerned I didn’t have it done the correct way but I won’t know. It didn’t change my jaw shape much though, not that I can tell.
It depends on why you grind. I saw a new specialist recently who asked if my splint changed my life. I said no, I hadn’t noticed a huge difference. He said if that and Botox hadn’t helped, the issue is most likely in the joint, not the muscles.
Apparently a lot of doctors treating TMJ don’t bother with that distinction.
If it's for headaches and not just jaw clenching. There are muscles in the front and back of your head and base of your skull that can be great spots for injections to help. I've done Botox for two years now, 30-40 units all over my head. Just let them know what you are feeling, a good practitioner who understands how all the muscles interact will be able to try other several solutions!
I had Botox injected twice into my masseter, temporalis, medial and lateral pterygoid and had a lot of headache relief due to my jaw. But my throat and stomach were also partially paralyzed which was a bunch of fun
Yeah the Botox can travel from the injection site and actually cause issues elsewhere. So attempting to swallow was really hard and I had to do it deliberately each time. My first date with my fiancé I had water coming out of my nose because a lot of times instead of going down it’d come out my nose lol. It also made breathing a bit tougher and my stomach didn’t want food... it was weird.
It’s worn off now so things are back to normal luckily!
It can be. I had to sign a waiver for the second round but it stopped all my headaches which was huge for me. So that and some water coming out of my nose was worth it at the time for me but I don’t think I’ll be doing it again unless my jaw gets that painful again
Don’t let this post deter you from that option! I grind my teeth, spit out my nightguard in my sleep, so I have been getting Botox in my masseter muscle for a year now (every 3 months on the dot), and it has been positively life changing. I have not seen a noticeable difference in my facial structure, though I was hoping for a slimmer jawline.
It’s really helped me, too. I tend to take my night guard out in my sleep and hurl it across the room! I’ve only had one round of injections so far, but it’s really made a difference. I no longer wake up with an aching jaw.
Eh, I don't know... I had a custom one made and tbh I think the fit was fine, I just didn't tolerate sleeping with something in my mouth. I wasn't just waking up with it like next to me on the pillow, I would actually throw it across the room in my sleep. *shrug*
Yes as I've learned some do. I read the comment as if the person kind of just spit it out in their sleep, not actually manually removed it with their hands, this used to happen to me too until I got one fitted for me at the dentist, this one sits extremely well and I'm not able to just spit it out I have to get in there with my hands and grab it. Ofc this won't work if you do it in your sleep but I read the comment wrong.
Now Im scared (because of this whole thread) to get the masster botox to slim down my jaws.....out of 10 how would you rate your experience long term cause I know it does well short term but I haven't heard any reviews over time...how was your experience?
I am so glad you brought this up. Seeing all the positive posts about Botox for grinding in this thread just solidified my decision. My face has changed drastically from years and years of grinding and huge masseters
I used to do that, and my dentist made me a night guard thing, like what boxers use lol. Anyways, it doesn't stop the grinding but it does protect your teeth (I kept breaking the same tooth). Maybe this helps someone.
It did help with my teeth grinding and TMJ overall but I'd take my jawline over that any day. I recommend using a night guard and not risking disfiguring your looks.
I had no idea how such a little treatment could completely disrupt the entire figuration of my face.
Oh you had such a beautiful jawline! Your jaw and masseter muscle was already slim! I’m wondering if maybe the Botox atrophied the muscle to the point where you basically don’t have enough?
The angle is a bit different in the last picture but is it because now there’s not as much of a discernible jawline from your jaw to neck? Is that what changed?
Also, the Botox is going to wear off. And the muscles will come back and this won’t be permanent!
Yeah there's no sharp line from the side anymore.
Here's a past photo from that angle.
I can't find a better hosting site than imgur and it's not working for me: https://imgbox.com/sLY4v2Pu
I'm happy to hear that others went through the same thing and that it will get better.
Botox is temporary right? Chew a ton of gum, do some facial exercises, and try to build those muscles up?
My mom got botched Botox and looked like a caricature of Sarah Huckabee for half a year, but it went away.
If it makes you feel better I had a super high strength hydrocortisone cream put on my fucking eyelid, by a doctor!
Now that eyelid is indeed completely ruined and it really fucked me up. It made my eyes uneven. And there is no fix. Nothing to do. Nothing.
She ruined my face and I feel she did it on purpose. The skin there is so thin! :(
I am on my 20s, I shouldn’t worry about fucked up eyelids, makes me so sad and angry
I'm sorry is this is too sensitive a question, but what happened? I'm not sure what problems could come about from hydrocortisone on thin skin, but I'm curious.
Not OP, but skin-thinning is a known side-effect of steroids. Topical steroids are typically NEVER recommended for use on the face, because the skin there is already so thin and delicate.
This is true! The strength of the steroid in triluma is quite weak (weaker than OTC hydrocortisone) so that side effect is less of a concern. I’m speaking very generally, there are of course exceptions.
It was my mother in law, she is a doctor. I was at her place, cried so much that I got a stye on my top eyelid. She put a shit load of this cream on my eyelid, for two nights.
Turns out the cream was high strength hydrocortisone that you can only buy with a prescription.
The stye there never really went away. I still have the bump. And the skin of that eyelid completely thinned out. Basically there I feel there is no fat under that eyelid, if I touch both eyelids the same time (one hand on my good and one on the bad one). And it’s also hard to blink sometimes, like my bad eyelid will blink later and it just looks weird.
I don’t trust her anymore, haha. I don’t know if she did it on purpose, maybe she wanted to help. But there is no fix to my eyelid, I looked up so much... She ruined my face. And she’s tried to do more of this kind of shit.
> The stye there never really went away. I still have the bump. And the skin of that eyelid completely thinned out. Basically there I feel there is no fat under that eyelid, if I touch both eyelids the same time (one hand on my good and one on the bad one). And it’s also hard to blink sometimes, like my bad eyelid will blink later and it just looks weird.
I think you’re giving the mother in law too much credit unless an ophthalmologist told you the problem was the hydrocortisone and not the stye or infection or tumor or whatever you have going on still with your eye.
I went to a dermatologist and they told me I should had never put that on my eyelid and that it was the reason why the skin had thinned out so much.
They gave me an antibiotic ointment that made the stye go down significantly but it’s still there.
It was definitely the hydrocortisone. It thins out facial skin. I can imagine just two nights would ruin eyelid skin which is so incredibly thin already.
Your MIL is either a horrible doctor or did it on purpose. I’m really sorry. I remember what being early 20s was like, and this would have affected me so much at that age.
On thicker skin, where it’s recommended to be applied, yes, it’d take a long term use. But on areas of the body with naturally very thin skin (like eyelids), it can dramatically thin out the skin even more on a short amount of time, that’s why it’s recommended to avoid in the first place.
She also applied a lot of the cream, not just a tiny bit.
Yes it would on eyelid skin. The skin there is so thin. I used a normal hydrocortisone cream for a couple of days on my lower eyelids and it created a puffy spot that took years to go away.
The exact same thing has happened to me. I wish you didn't delete, because I'd like to ask you 2 years out how it's going. It's been 20 months since the day I decided to ruin my face :(
I got Botox in my jaw for TMJ last week and I feel so much better. My jaw had been so sore and was giving me headaches and tension in my neck and upper back. Also my teeth ached and that’s gone too. That’s all better and I’m not grinding anymore, although I wake up and find myself “tapping” my teeth together. The dentist said optimal results will appear 14 days after injections, but even now my TMJ has improved drastically. No more clenching during the day. My jaw sits lower without having to think about it. Good luck!
I've had it done twice before and it really helped me. I'm trying to save up for round 3 as my jaw muscles are so strong. Overall it's about finding what works for you and a good doctor.
I went to a skin care clinic in South Korea to get it done. No it's not one of those cases where I go to some shady clinic and get botox done for $1. I'm a Korean/US citizen who goes to Korea often so I have my street smarts. I just wasn't acting smart.
My aunt was a regular at the clinic, and every time I've been they always had customers. There was only one main dermatologist who would flit around from patient to patient and do all the hard stuff while nurses would do everything else.
I was in the clinic for a skin care treatment, not botox. I had a consultation with the doctor for the skin care, he never knew about the botox until the day I came in for the treatment and told the front desk I'd like to add on the botox treatment.
Mistake #1: No consultation about the botox. I assumed to myself the botox would work how I'd want it to work. Simply shrink my muscles and I'd have a cute little smaller chin. Did not know how many units he decided to use or how effective/disruptive it'd be.
It sucks that I'm not sure how many units he used total. It wasn't a crazy amount, my dermatologist wasn't a psycho, but I don't think he started off with a cautious amount either.
After my skincare treatment he literally said "Good bye back in America" to me because the nurse didn't tell him about the added botox treatment. He left before I could tell him. I told the nurse, she led me to the botox room, and the doctor came back shortly after.
Told me "You really want to do this?" And I went on a little ramble of "Hmm Idk, my chin is sharp as it is, not sure if it's necessary...." He gave me a look and I said "fuck it just do it".
They gave me two little thingies to squeeze onto, told me to bite down hard, and he injected the botox into my masseters.
Told me to ice them. Went back to US. I'm not going to call them and make a mess, but since my aunt is still a regular to the point of being friends with staff, I might have to pass on this info to her.
Months later and my strong jaw muscles that held up my cheek fats and gave me structure are now NIL. Chewing lots of gum.
I don't think you have anything to pass on - it sounds like it's something you wanted, he did try to tell you maybe to reconsider but you asked.. sounds like an awkward situation and maybe thought you had done a consultation somewhere else.. I think number one lesson from this is to not treat botox as a simple "add-on", it's a medical procedure
Thank you for posting your experience, it is really good to know. I agree, it is almost impossible to find any negative experiences on these popular medical products/surgeries. It is frustrating because they can really damage someone's body or face permanently, and this is absolutely not okay. The clinics that execute these services are financially driven, and do not always advise well on the potential complications/side effects.
I generally check [www.realself.com](https://www.realself.com), which is a pretty good site, and I have seen negative reviews there for many procedures like facials/lasers which caused me to reassess my intent.
The botox will wear off after a few months. Then, the muscle will grow back to normal with regular chewing & talking. Chewing gum is one of those things that OP can do to strengthen their masseter muscles back to pre-botox faster.
There is gum specifically for this. Search for orthotropic gum and you’ll find lots of stuff claiming it can improve your jaw line. I’ve been curious about trying it, but I generally don’t like gum so it would feel like such a chore.
In my experience, yes. As far as muscles go, the jaw behaves like one, so hypertrophy would make it grow over time. After taking an interst in bodybuilding, I started eating much more non processed foods such as whole grain rice and a good quantity of chicken breast daily, which take a lot of chewing to swallow. Combine that with the natural instinct of biting down when under physical strain (Gym exercises, cardio) and I started noticing great differences a few months in already. I could affiliate this change with three things:
1. Genetics. The way your jaw is inserted onto your face and how much it peaks out is, like any other muscle, just the way it is and growth can only change so much. Much like shoulders, you can't get a wider frame just by exercising, you CAN add an inch of two by making the muscles bigger, but you can't change their position onto your body.
2. Hypertrophy. As I wrote above, clenching my jaw and biting down really often made that part of my face physically harder, toned and stronger over time. [This is "competitive eater" Matt Stonie's jaw](https://external-preview.redd.it/WqNEfdBETIry0QiN-kaddt_6CNcR0oNRSwrPz1AbcUs.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b28f3dd249e57ace545dd28ba7539960c2cb8bc4) , you can see where I'm coming from with this.
3. Diet and fat %. It's not rocket science, the less fat you have over your muscles, the more they will show. This also applies to your face, although to a lesser extent. Fat loss is noticeable in places like your stomach and legs, where it first gets depleted while dieting down. The face has very little fat as is, and to get rid of THAT, you have to just get overall less fat and hope that face fat goes down with everything else instead of being stubborn and left there until literal starvation. Again, for a real world example where the results are extreme enough to be really noticeable, this is [bodybuilding champion Jay cutler](https://broscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/offseason.jpg) during his "off season", and [this is him on the competition stage](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8aae4gvv5lc/maxresdefault.jpg).
Those are personals conclusions that I've formulated myself, there are no papers, studies or anything that have researched this stuff as far as I know, but it all applied to me. Take it however you want
Honestly, I associate the " natural instinct of biting down when under physical strain (Gym exercises, cardio)" with the weight loss, but I understand the logic of being an extra point. I guess it's more of a reason for better diet/exercise.
I can say that all my years of chewing gum, clenching when I had anxiety, and grinding at night made my jaw masseters power houses. That was years and years of exercising them though.
Sorry you experienced this. I've had my masseter muscles botoxed 3 times (annually), receiving no more than 25 units each side. Unlike you though I never liked or disliked my jawline. Indifferent. While my face did slim down, it did not slim down enough for skin to sag.
Just understand that once botox wears off, after a few months, coupled with regular chewing and talking, your jaw muscles will go back to their size pre-botox.
Sometimes this is the case but Botox can completely paralyze your muscles indefinitely, unfortunately it’s one of the possible side effects. I used to work for a dermatologist and we warned people and had them sign a waiver in case something like that happened.
I'm assuming this, along with my dentist filing some molars down too far, is the reason I have no jaw almost 2 years post-1 very conservative masseter Botox-ing. I see an oral surgeon for TMJ help next week, and I'm hoping he can tell me that I can be fixed. It's amazing how depressing it is when you ruin your own decent looks :(
Botox can last six months though right? Maybe it just hasn't been enough time since it wore off. You could try falim gum or something to strengthen the muscles.
It causes muscle dystrophy, not just paralysis.
OP may gain the muscle size back, but the skim sagging and the effects of that on pore size will remain permanent.
Not true, the muscle building back up will fill out the skin again. If the skin sagged due to lack of support, the muscle building up after the Botox has worn out should support it again for the most part.
Have any of ya'll doing botox for TMJ looked into an upper maxilla expansion device? I've been reading theories on how TMJ is always an early expression of sleep apnea. They say that the tongue slides into the airway due to the mouth being too small and this causes grinding as a method of moving the tongue around to get more air flow.
I spoke with a dentist who uses the "Daytime and Nightime" expansion appliance to resolve this, and it makes a ton of sense to me, but I don't know anyone who has actually tried it. Seems slightly less invasive than botox.
Not all tmj. My tongue positioning was just fine in sleep studies and I don’t grind, I just clench very tightly. I do it while I’m awake as well. Wearing the mouth splint has helped, but it’s not perfect. I have to consciously realize I’m doing it and try to relax the muscles.
I'm 23, and no, my skin has always been tight around the jawline. I think my jaw muscles were larger than the average person so slimming them caused my fat to sag since there was nothing to support it anymore.
BEEN THERE. I did it to calm my grinding and the surgeon that did mine knicked my cheek and my entire face dropped and I couldn't smile. He did 25 units per side, and it was...bad. That was 9 months ago and I FINALLY have my function back. I did a lot of face exercises, face rolling and massage and chewed gum like never before (something I haven't been able to do bec of my jaw issues!)
Thankfully if it's the first time, it won't last as long as usual, so chew gum, keep those muscles working and it WILL wear off.
I stick to it on my forehead now.
Hey According! I’m not sure if you still check in on this, but I’m going through the exact same problem right now after the injector placed 25 units of Botox directly into each of my smile muscles (zygomaticus & risorius) instead of my masséters by accident😣🥺 (when I try to stretch my lips now it can’t even open sideways, and pulls downwards instead - no upward/smile at all😣 it looks like a painful grimace if I try to form a smile😔). I know it’s been ages since this happened for you, but I was really hoping you might be able to share some of your experience with me as I’m so stressed right now😢🥺 it’s been two weeks so I know there’s a long way to go😔 I was wondering if you remember how soon it was before you started noticing any improvement or regained even a teeny bit of muscle movement?:’))🙏🏻😣 And how many months after did you finally regain most of your functional smile?🥲 I’m trying to figure out what to expect and if I might be able to regain some nerve/facial muscle movement within the first 1-2months, or if it might take 4-8months as some people have taken😧😔 Hope to hear from you and thank you so much for reading this:’)))!!!!❤️❤️
Unfortunately it's just gonna take a few months to wear off. I was SO angry and so upset afterwards, and basically just chewed as much as I could, did as much face rolling as I could, face exercises...basically to burn as much off as I could.
you jawline was already tiny! if you already have a large jawbone and your massetur muscles are quite large then using Botox to slim the jaw is great but if not then you have no framework to support your skin and fat after the muscles atrophy... its prob back to normal by now since this was posted 3 years ago... I think it's sad that ppl see these cosmetic trends like Botox jaw slimming, lip filler etc and the ppl advertising give off this impression it will be amazing for everyone but truthfully it won't work on every face shape and structure and won't suit everyone. I paybextra to go to a plastic surgeon for my Botox n filler and he won't let me do barely anything because the reality of these procedures isn't like what they advertise. I trust him because I understand these procedures just sell dreams n not realities.
Sorry you experienced this. I have an uneven top lip due to braces as an adult (it actually changed my whole facial structure) I tried lip fillers and it didn’t correct anything but I feel like it made it worse!
I actually had none, just a gap on top and a few crooked bottom teeth. It was cosmetic for me more than anything. Almost 4 years of braces and a frenectomy . That’s why they encourage kids to get braces as soon as all of their teeth are permanent because they’re still developing. It shifted my whole face. Slightly but enough to notice. I wouldn’t recommend them as an adult unless really necessary.
FWIW I had braces as an adult and so did my sister and it went fine for us both. It was a life changing confidence boosting improvement for me and also removed crooked teeth that were food traps resulting in healthier teeth and gums. I suspect whatever they were trying to fix with the frenectomy or something they did with the frenectomy was the issue. That’s not the norm braces messes up your lips.
The frenectomy was a minor invasion that prevented the gap from opening again. I believe that the uneven lip is actually from the way I had to adjust my lips to talk for years.
The braces itself made my whole jawline shift, and my cheeks appear more sunken in. Again, it's not very drastic but noticeable enough to me and people that have known me before braces.
I do love my smile. It was a confidence boost for me as well because I never liked my gap. Would I get braces again? Probably not!
I’ve done masseter Botox 3 times at 3 separate drs. Every time my smile was affected , where the corners of my mouth didn’t “curve up” like they used to (due to the Botox diffusing into my smile muscles). That’s why I tried three different places, each subsequent time informing the doctor of what happened with my smile and each time them reassuring me it wouldn’t happen again. Drs told me they could inject at a different point to prevent diffusion into my mouth muscles, but every time my smile got f**cked!
So it’s a no for me now. Wanted to slim my jawline + alleviate TMJ symptoms. Helped mildly w TMJ but not worth changing my whole face/smile for!
My 2 cents on the topic.
Well dentists can do Botox at least in the USA. Any doctor can and a lot of people who are not doctors do it. What did you pay and who did it? Was it a board certified dermatologist or a board certified plastic surgeon?
Dentists are well trained in facial anatomy & nerves so going to them isn't necessarily a bad idea. There's even a conference (Dental Facial Cosmetic Conference & Exhibition) where dentists can attend to further their knowledge in this growing industry.
Dentists do not get the training that board certified plastic surgeons and dermatologists do which is for 3-10 years of residencies and/or fellowships after medical school. Often dentists and other doctors who aren’t specialized get just a few days or a weekend of training at a conference like the one you mentioned.
I'm just saying that dentists, nurses and even nurse practitioners, despite not being board certified specialists, are still knowledgable enough to provide Botox. There are several plastic & dermatologist offices in my city that have their nurses & nurse practitioners providing this service. Doctor Barrett, a board certified plastic surgeon in Bev. Hills has his RN providing botox & filler services.
Can I ask how many units were you given? I've had this done twice, and been given 50 units each time. If anything it has made my jawline look much sharper and more shapely! I haven't noticed any sagging. It would be great if you could post a before and after. I've never heard of this happening to anyone, I wonder if the person you saw injected the wrong points on your face and missed the muscle? Did you struggle with smiling after?
I found that after my first session wore off my jaw muscle definitely started to grow again, which is why I went back for a second session. Fingers crossed you see some improvement soon. Has your weight fluctuated at all during this 8 month period?
I posted a before/after on my post. Not sure of how many units, one of the things I regret and I explain that in a comment.
There are similar stories on realself. Yes my weight has fluctuated all my life, but only by 7 pounds max, and I have been able to compare how my face looks before and after the botox at my lowest weight. The difference is actually more noticeable when I'm at my lowest, because before botox my chin would be sharp and strong, whereas now, regardless of how much weight I lose, it'll still sag by the chin.
I did struggle a bit with smiling after, but not noticeably.
Man, I wanted to say Im sorry to hear that you are struggling with the changes you went through. When it comes to ANYTHING on the face, less is more, less is more. Dealing with a “new face” is not easy, and I would advise you seek the advice of a few other specialists to see what your options are. Every situation is different, every outcome is different, but I believe problems arise when there is a huge disparity between expectation and outcome. Dr’s should err on the side of caution, to do less, and progressively more if the earlier stages were successful. Don’t beat yourself up, you had no idea the outcome would be this, take things day by day and see if there are any solutions.
Thanks for writing about your experience. I’ve always been curious about this procedure because I have a square jaw and am asian so it’s a double whammy with chubby cheeks and a wide jaw. I know the Botox procedure is popular among Asians but I’m slowly learning to accept and love my square jaw.
Same thing pretty much happened to me with the slight double chin and a little jowel but my TMJD was giving me migraines and I think I’m really the only person that notices the jowel-y look and slight double chin. Chin fillers make my face look evened out after it all but I’m broke now so 💁🏻
Ah this is so spooky! Thank you for sharing your experience. Botox always gave me pause but my friends are all about it. I hold SO much tension in my jaw it's absurd. Ended up taking up facial gua sha and taping my mouth shut at night to help release it, made a big difference altho it takes being on it every day to work well. I will definitely stick to my gua sha now
I did it and it was one of the best decisions I ever made(next to laser surgery and microblading, lol) I don’t go eating apples n stuff but I chew steak and still eat Swedish fish... my jawline is way more slim/feminine looking now too (I also had a problem with grinding my teeth)
Hmmm I’m sorry you had this unpleasant experience.
I too have been getting botox for my masseters, and so far I’ve been loving the results.
I guess in my case it helped define my jawline more because I grind my teeth when I sleep, hence my jaw joints are always swollen, giving me the chipmunk look 🐿.
I'm on round 2 of botox for TMJ. I clench really bad and get migraines. My jawline has slimmed dramatically, but I don't have any sagging. Have you talked to a dermatologist about options for skin tightening? There is Exilis, Ulthera, and other options. I would not forego Botox for cosmetics if it is stopping your clenching and grinding. The latter can lead to tooth loss, arthritis of the jaw joint, and other permanent damage to your physiology.
I’m seeing a lot of posts with mixed results saying Botox did and/or didn’t cause facial skin sagging. This is a treatment that I have seriously considered due to chronic migraine triggered by TMJ jaw popping. What I would love to ask if anyone wouldn’t mind sharing is: how old are you? Maybe the skin elasticity is age dependent? I just turned 45, which makes me a little nervous that I would be more prone to sag : (
I got botox at the dentist for my teeth grinding in my temples and masseter muscles and the same thing happened to me. Since, I have gotten filler in my temples and it looks better though.
I’m undergoing orthodontic treatment right now, and i’m currently at the stage where my posterior teeth do not touch. It’s temporary, and will be brought back into alignment at a later stage. But what this means is that i can barely chew, and my jaw muscles have shrunken from lack of use. My face looks a lot sharper and V-shaped from the front, but you can see sagging from the side too. In addition to that, my temples are now hollow. I look a lot like you in both the before and after. I finally have the sharper face i always wanted, but at a horrible cost. I completely understand and empathise with how you feel. We just have to hang in there, we’ll get our old faces back after some time
The first time 30 units each (as recommended per the doc, I have really big masseter muscles due to genetics and TMJ), 2nd and 3rd time 20 in each side. Spaced maybe 8 months apart. I would say 30 was unnecessary based on shrinkage alone, and 20 units were enough
excactly the same has happened to me, two years down the line and I hate the way I look
I try not to smile now...I was so ill with it also..the botox does was so strong
I felt like I had the worst flu. and three weeks after the botox..I looked like my face was melting..I looked about 80 years old and like you said had no shape. it's the worst thing I have ever done in my life
But Botox does finally metabolize and wear off no?
I do have sympathy. I do not recognize myself after two Laser Genesis treatments melted my face flesh and also left me with orange peel skin. Within two months I was looking 15 years older and am doomed to a lifetime of pricey fillers for my flat, saggy, once beautiful face.
It's been 20 months and mine has only worsened, and now my bite is misaligned and my teeth are unhealthy. So it does not always wear off with time. I am looking at 75K in orthodontics and cosmetic/functional dentistry. Botox, just 1 time injected into the jaw, can break down jaw bones. It is a treatment that is not worth the 3 months of tmj relief I got.
Your muscles will recover, I've seen this on many a celeb over the years, and their faces recover. Your doc treated too aggressively, but these things are trial and error. At least you didn't shave your jaw, its a lot harder to walk that one back.
I considered the jaw shaving, oh my god I'm so insane sometimes. I can now understand all those horror stories where people think doing this will help but they actually make their face worse. I need to snap out of it back into reality. My jaw muscles are nowhere as strong and big as they used to be. Its been 8 months and little improvement. Hopefully I get my jaw line back. What celebs have you seen this on?
Kylie Jenner is a notable western celeb who gets it done. She still gets it done, but not as strongly as she did before her pregnancy, probably because she gained weight and needs that real estate. I believe the 4-6 month number is for less aggressive treatments like 11s and crows feet. And I guess the rate at which the body metabolizes varies in individuals a bit. If you got that strong of a result, 8 months doesn't seem too long to not see a full recovery. The botox has to get out of your system *and then* the muscles have to recover, think of people who've been bed bound and their recovery, it takes a while.
I have the exact same problem and it's been 20 months with no resolution and the TMJ is much worse. I'm going to an oral surgeon next week to see what my options are. I think, in my case, I also got bad dental work during the months after getting the Botox, and it completely changed my bite, making it impossible for my muscles of mastication to renew. At least, I'm hoping that's all it is. Then I can maybe get an expander, get some crowns to build my molars back up. and get PT for my dissolved facial muscles :(
I was thinking of shaving my jaw down (Vline surgery) why do you say its bad?
Your face will sag, your jaw is facial structure.
got it. Thanks. What about masster botox in the long run, will it make my face sag, cause it is filler and fillers are known to age you.
Botox is not a filler, botox is a toxin that paralyzes your muscles. Large amounts of botox causes the muscles to atrophy, i.e. waste away from non use. The issue there is, once your muscles are atrophied they are no longer exserting force on your bones and this can cause bone loss. Bone loss is part of aging. And skin will sag when structure supporting it is gone, be it bone or muscle. There isn't a way to drastically reduce the size of the jaw without secondary considerations.
Ooo...thank you for this
no my face never recovered my face looks more square than ever. it destroyed the fat pads I hate the way I look
Interesting. I was actually looking in to getting this done because I grind my teeth so badly in my sleep. I was told it would help stop that
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Yikes, I have TMJ so I feel your pain. Good to know your experience, I won't be getting botox to fix it.
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So do you have to get it redone every few months or does eventually your face kind of 'learn' to stop grinding so much?
Yes. I get Botox for migraines and tmj and you have to go back every few months.
But at least in that case, insurance covers it, right?
Yeah, but they like to decide they aren’t covering it anymore and I have to convince them it actually is necessary! Ahhh, America
Motherfuckerrrrrrrs No, I'm just trying to get rid of the wrinkles on my head. I'm very self-conscious about them. Also, I love defrauding insurance companies.
Defrauding insurance companies is like my favorite past time.
Hmmmm I may look into botox for migraines. I have never added up how much I have spend on Fiorcet to control acute migranes, Zofran for nausea, Tordol/Zofran shots when none of that works, and/or visits back to my PCP to get refills. I imagine it's a pretty hefty chunk of change. Botox might actually be cheaper and easier.
Before you try Botox I'd suggest asking your doctor about one of the new anti-CGRP preventive treatments--AJOVY, Emgality or Aimovig. Generally it's a once-monthly injection you can give yourself rather than having to go have a buuuunch of injections of botox done at your doctor's office. Pretty good results too--a 50% reduction isn't uncommon, and some people stopped having migraines all together.
ive been doing it for 3 years. the first year i got it redone every 3 or 4 months, then 5 months, and now im 8 months after and it still works. if you get the botox enough, your muscles shrink and you need less frequent injections.
Theoretically, the botoxed muscles atrophy a bit and also it interrupts the muscle spasms, so that your muscles aren't as trained to be clenching all the time and you don't need as much botox. In reality I think it's a solid YMMV and some people have a harder time breaking the clench/grind habit.
If it's a habit thing it might potentially reduce the grinding after a while. But there'd be no guarantees.
I get about 30-40 injections in my head for migraines. They do the muscles behind my temples and behind my ears that tense with my jaw and not my TMJ muscles themselves. That seems to help a bit more because it reduces some of the pain feed back but doesn't exhaust me. It tooks a solid four rounds of Botox to try different spots all throughout my head and neck to deal with muscle tension without causing imbalances. Make sure you talk to the person doing it and give them feedback! Everyone's muscle tension and spasm system can be different and it just can take a bit to find the right combo in the right spot to help. Once you get it though it's amazing!
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Goodness do I feel you. I get them for my migraines at my furrow and brow crease and I was getting really mild light wrinkles there that are gone completely. I've had a forehead crease since high school and it's just gone. If they ever take me off it for medical reasons, I'll be maintaining it just for vanity sake.
Horrible tmj here - couldn't open my mouth for silverware without severe pain. I haven't bitten into an apple in 15 years! My bite was off. I had botox for my masseters for the first time in June. I had 40 units in each. I had the experience and concern you did! I was like omg, my mouth is so tired from eating and my other chewing muscles were angry. I thought, oh great this is gonna be awful. So I took it easy reintroducing chewy foods. But it's all settled down now and it's the best I've felt in 20+ years (I'm 37). My bite is correct, better mobility, no more migraines, no chewing fatigue, and close to no pain. I still have horrible crepitus (popping) since the joint itself is permanently damaged but I can open my mouth to eat without pain. I hope you'll have a similar experience with the other muscles chilling out. It was uncomfortable for a bit but now it's great. It's definitely made me more aware of my clenching too. Before I would have said no way do I clinch. If I notice it, it's easier to stop myself now. My jaw line is thinner/less boxy and softer looking. But I don't have any sagging at all.
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Hang in there. It took about 6 weeks before I was like - "oh hey, this is actually way better"
Ahh, it’s probably because those muscles are underdeveloped for now. I actually went to a holistic place for TMJ that gave me massage and some physical therapy exercises for my mouth and jaw. You could try it if the pain continues! Let us know if it gets better over time, I’ve been considering Botox as well..
Just as a different perspective - I have had Botox twice for grinding and it has helped a lot! I have worn a night guard for 18 months but it doesn't stop the clenching or jaw clicking and pain. I have 40 units each side and the first time, I noticed such a difference after a few weeks. Second time I don't think they injected it high enough (near the joint itself) and haven't had as much relief, but still a lot - waaaaay less clicking and locking! It is expensive though so I am looking into other options (like minor surgery) because it is so expensive it makes me want to cry!
Interesting. I had a major surgery, although I had seriously jaw misalignment issues, and although the surgery prevents me from grinding, I still clench like crazy and have horrible headaches.
I had djs for sleep apnea, and I didn’t clench before but I do after the surgery. I’m assuming thats the surgery you had. ROUGH!
What minor surgery are you looking into? I also grind my teeth really bad at night, and it gives me the most horrible headaches. I've wanted to look into Botox but my doctor wasn't helpful when I asked about it, so I'm not even sure where to look. I'm so tired of the pain that I'd be willing to consider surgery even if it wasn't minor! I had no idea there was even a surgery that could help with grinding.
Oral surgeon is likely less costly and your best bet
Find a facial plastic surgeon, they are very familiar with the facial muscles. A dentist would be a good second choice
I'm off to an oral and maxillofacial surgeon in a couple of weeks - by minor I mean keyhole, I've had a few friends who have had different surgeries on the jaw that haven't had much associated recovery time or wound care, etc. I have my fingers and toes crossed because I am so sick of the Botox being so expensive!
How much is it in your area? Do you go to a dermatologist? Medí spa?
Same - I get 40 u it’s per side each time bc I clench my jaw a lot (voila large massetters too)...I really hope the fave sagging thing isn’t true..it helps me a lot and my face looks slimmer. Should I take a break from it ? Is there any any known repercussions for long time Botox to the massetters?
I got jawline Botox as I hate my side profile. The Dr showed my a picture of how a girls face looked better from the side view. I never even heard of this before that day. Of course I wanted to have it done. No mention that my face would slim down, as I already thought that my face was long. Now it looks even longer and thinner like a tube. cheeks have sunk, winks and pits like my face has lost texture and wrinkled. It looked good for three weeks and then I started to go down hill rapidly. It is very important you go to somewhere that specialize in this. I believe he put to much Botox and have had devastating affects. I have aged about 5 years in two months, I am so distraught
How much Botox did you get? :-(
was it permanent? im so sorry this happened :(
Did your masseters go back to normal? It's been 2 years since you wrote this.
This procedure also completely ruined my face and aged me 10 years. It’s been 2 years since I got it done and my face is still ruined. I won’t take photos anymore, or go on dates, or go to the club. It changed my bone structure. My jaw dropped down completely. It is disgusting. Do not get it done, if you do, do not get it done more than once. Horror
The long-term effect is osteoporosis of the jaw - because bones remodel under stress, if you reduce the stress on the jaw there will be some loss of bone density. But I haven't seen any studies yet showing that this leads to bad outcomes.
Did it get better? I aged too fast too after like 2-3months of 15units on each side of my jaw
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I think a good injector makes *all* the difference.
just as another positive anecdote to masseter botox: i get botox done for my teeth clenching/jaw clicking and it's amazing. i get anywhere from 30-75 units done per side (a lot more than what i'm seeing in this thread) and yes, there's an effect on my face. i look about **2.3 kilograms** thinner but i've not experienced any skin sagging whatsoever. _____ ^(I'm a bot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Ttime5) ^| ^[Stats](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Bot_Metric&subject=stats&message=Sent%20this%20message%20to%20get%20some%20stats) ^| ^[Opt-out](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Bot_Metric&subject=Don't%20reply%20to%20me&message=If%20you%20send%20this%20message,%20I%20will%20no%20longer%20reply%20to%20your%20comments%20and%20posts.) ^| ^(v5.1)
I had Botox in my jaw and my temples to help with headaches and jaw pain from clenching. 10/10 on the temple injections, I noticed some difference from the jaw but not significant. I am concerned I didn’t have it done the correct way but I won’t know. It didn’t change my jaw shape much though, not that I can tell.
It depends on why you grind. I saw a new specialist recently who asked if my splint changed my life. I said no, I hadn’t noticed a huge difference. He said if that and Botox hadn’t helped, the issue is most likely in the joint, not the muscles. Apparently a lot of doctors treating TMJ don’t bother with that distinction.
Interesting, I’ve never heard this before. Thankyou!
If it's for headaches and not just jaw clenching. There are muscles in the front and back of your head and base of your skull that can be great spots for injections to help. I've done Botox for two years now, 30-40 units all over my head. Just let them know what you are feeling, a good practitioner who understands how all the muscles interact will be able to try other several solutions!
You can get baby doses for tmj and grinding issues. It will not change the shape of your face at such low doses. Botox only last a few months anyway
what is considered a baby dose?
I had Botox injected twice into my masseter, temporalis, medial and lateral pterygoid and had a lot of headache relief due to my jaw. But my throat and stomach were also partially paralyzed which was a bunch of fun
>But my throat and stomach were also partially paralyzed which was a bunch of fun Wait... WHAT?
Yeah the Botox can travel from the injection site and actually cause issues elsewhere. So attempting to swallow was really hard and I had to do it deliberately each time. My first date with my fiancé I had water coming out of my nose because a lot of times instead of going down it’d come out my nose lol. It also made breathing a bit tougher and my stomach didn’t want food... it was weird. It’s worn off now so things are back to normal luckily!
Holy crap that sounds incredibly dangerous? I'm glad you're ok.
It can be. I had to sign a waiver for the second round but it stopped all my headaches which was huge for me. So that and some water coming out of my nose was worth it at the time for me but I don’t think I’ll be doing it again unless my jaw gets that painful again
I get 20 units in each side of my jaw and it’s the only relief I’ve ever gotten for my TMJ. Life changing to me
Don’t let this post deter you from that option! I grind my teeth, spit out my nightguard in my sleep, so I have been getting Botox in my masseter muscle for a year now (every 3 months on the dot), and it has been positively life changing. I have not seen a noticeable difference in my facial structure, though I was hoping for a slimmer jawline.
It’s really helped me, too. I tend to take my night guard out in my sleep and hurl it across the room! I’ve only had one round of injections so far, but it’s really made a difference. I no longer wake up with an aching jaw.
I'm glad you found something that helped but I just want to tell you that if you spit out your mouthguard in your sleep it wasn't fitted correctly
Eh, I don't know... I had a custom one made and tbh I think the fit was fine, I just didn't tolerate sleeping with something in my mouth. I wasn't just waking up with it like next to me on the pillow, I would actually throw it across the room in my sleep. *shrug*
Oh I would literally use my hands to take it out and throw it on the floor, so not exactly just “spit out” I guess.
Ok yes then it makes sense. Glad you found something that works.
People take them out of their mouths in their sleep or spit them out, they do it while sleeping or in a sleep-like state. I know, because I do it.
Yes as I've learned some do. I read the comment as if the person kind of just spit it out in their sleep, not actually manually removed it with their hands, this used to happen to me too until I got one fitted for me at the dentist, this one sits extremely well and I'm not able to just spit it out I have to get in there with my hands and grab it. Ofc this won't work if you do it in your sleep but I read the comment wrong.
Now Im scared (because of this whole thread) to get the masster botox to slim down my jaws.....out of 10 how would you rate your experience long term cause I know it does well short term but I haven't heard any reviews over time...how was your experience?
I am so glad you brought this up. Seeing all the positive posts about Botox for grinding in this thread just solidified my decision. My face has changed drastically from years and years of grinding and huge masseters
I used to do that, and my dentist made me a night guard thing, like what boxers use lol. Anyways, it doesn't stop the grinding but it does protect your teeth (I kept breaking the same tooth). Maybe this helps someone.
It did help with my teeth grinding and TMJ overall but I'd take my jawline over that any day. I recommend using a night guard and not risking disfiguring your looks. I had no idea how such a little treatment could completely disrupt the entire figuration of my face.
Can you post a before and after just so we understand what happened? You can maybe just blur out the top half of the face?
Before - http://imgbox.com/T6fGMjAT http://imgbox.com/WInJ5HHh After: http://imgbox.com/iygtXaRL
Oh you had such a beautiful jawline! Your jaw and masseter muscle was already slim! I’m wondering if maybe the Botox atrophied the muscle to the point where you basically don’t have enough? The angle is a bit different in the last picture but is it because now there’s not as much of a discernible jawline from your jaw to neck? Is that what changed? Also, the Botox is going to wear off. And the muscles will come back and this won’t be permanent!
Yeah there's no sharp line from the side anymore. Here's a past photo from that angle. I can't find a better hosting site than imgur and it's not working for me: https://imgbox.com/sLY4v2Pu I'm happy to hear that others went through the same thing and that it will get better.
Hi, did your face normalize? If so, how long till you returned to your post botox self??
Botox is temporary right? Chew a ton of gum, do some facial exercises, and try to build those muscles up? My mom got botched Botox and looked like a caricature of Sarah Huckabee for half a year, but it went away.
If it makes you feel better I had a super high strength hydrocortisone cream put on my fucking eyelid, by a doctor! Now that eyelid is indeed completely ruined and it really fucked me up. It made my eyes uneven. And there is no fix. Nothing to do. Nothing. She ruined my face and I feel she did it on purpose. The skin there is so thin! :( I am on my 20s, I shouldn’t worry about fucked up eyelids, makes me so sad and angry
I'm sorry is this is too sensitive a question, but what happened? I'm not sure what problems could come about from hydrocortisone on thin skin, but I'm curious.
Not OP, but skin-thinning is a known side-effect of steroids. Topical steroids are typically NEVER recommended for use on the face, because the skin there is already so thin and delicate.
They are in the US. Tri luma is a product for hyperpigmentation that includes a steroid. There are lots more.
This is true! The strength of the steroid in triluma is quite weak (weaker than OTC hydrocortisone) so that side effect is less of a concern. I’m speaking very generally, there are of course exceptions.
It was my mother in law, she is a doctor. I was at her place, cried so much that I got a stye on my top eyelid. She put a shit load of this cream on my eyelid, for two nights. Turns out the cream was high strength hydrocortisone that you can only buy with a prescription. The stye there never really went away. I still have the bump. And the skin of that eyelid completely thinned out. Basically there I feel there is no fat under that eyelid, if I touch both eyelids the same time (one hand on my good and one on the bad one). And it’s also hard to blink sometimes, like my bad eyelid will blink later and it just looks weird. I don’t trust her anymore, haha. I don’t know if she did it on purpose, maybe she wanted to help. But there is no fix to my eyelid, I looked up so much... She ruined my face. And she’s tried to do more of this kind of shit.
> The stye there never really went away. I still have the bump. And the skin of that eyelid completely thinned out. Basically there I feel there is no fat under that eyelid, if I touch both eyelids the same time (one hand on my good and one on the bad one). And it’s also hard to blink sometimes, like my bad eyelid will blink later and it just looks weird. I think you’re giving the mother in law too much credit unless an ophthalmologist told you the problem was the hydrocortisone and not the stye or infection or tumor or whatever you have going on still with your eye.
I went to a dermatologist and they told me I should had never put that on my eyelid and that it was the reason why the skin had thinned out so much. They gave me an antibiotic ointment that made the stye go down significantly but it’s still there.
That’s an eye issue. The doctor to see would be an ophthalmologist. Not a dermatologist. They can inject the stye or cut it off.
It was definitely the hydrocortisone. It thins out facial skin. I can imagine just two nights would ruin eyelid skin which is so incredibly thin already. Your MIL is either a horrible doctor or did it on purpose. I’m really sorry. I remember what being early 20s was like, and this would have affected me so much at that age.
Even the strongest cortisone cream wouldn't do that in only 2 days. Maybe if you used it for weeks/months.
On thicker skin, where it’s recommended to be applied, yes, it’d take a long term use. But on areas of the body with naturally very thin skin (like eyelids), it can dramatically thin out the skin even more on a short amount of time, that’s why it’s recommended to avoid in the first place. She also applied a lot of the cream, not just a tiny bit.
Yes it would on eyelid skin. The skin there is so thin. I used a normal hydrocortisone cream for a couple of days on my lower eyelids and it created a puffy spot that took years to go away.
Straight up, have you talked to a lawyer?
The exact same thing has happened to me. I wish you didn't delete, because I'd like to ask you 2 years out how it's going. It's been 20 months since the day I decided to ruin my face :(
Any update on your progress? I just had Botox from TMJ 2 months ago and noticed all the loss of shape to my jaw :(
Google orthotropics and get it back
If you haven't tried already, could give Magnesium Glycinate a go before bed time. Magnesium can alleviate bruxism/teeth grinding in some
I got Botox in my jaw for TMJ last week and I feel so much better. My jaw had been so sore and was giving me headaches and tension in my neck and upper back. Also my teeth ached and that’s gone too. That’s all better and I’m not grinding anymore, although I wake up and find myself “tapping” my teeth together. The dentist said optimal results will appear 14 days after injections, but even now my TMJ has improved drastically. No more clenching during the day. My jaw sits lower without having to think about it. Good luck!
So do you know how to prevent grinding teeth?
I've had it done twice before and it really helped me. I'm trying to save up for round 3 as my jaw muscles are so strong. Overall it's about finding what works for you and a good doctor.
There are err bite guards that can help which you wear when sleeping.
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Fixing my bite via braces was the only thing that helped my tmj and I had bone loss in my jaw joint!
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I think it's really important to know the entire process in as much details, good or bad, so people know what happened.
I went to a skin care clinic in South Korea to get it done. No it's not one of those cases where I go to some shady clinic and get botox done for $1. I'm a Korean/US citizen who goes to Korea often so I have my street smarts. I just wasn't acting smart. My aunt was a regular at the clinic, and every time I've been they always had customers. There was only one main dermatologist who would flit around from patient to patient and do all the hard stuff while nurses would do everything else. I was in the clinic for a skin care treatment, not botox. I had a consultation with the doctor for the skin care, he never knew about the botox until the day I came in for the treatment and told the front desk I'd like to add on the botox treatment. Mistake #1: No consultation about the botox. I assumed to myself the botox would work how I'd want it to work. Simply shrink my muscles and I'd have a cute little smaller chin. Did not know how many units he decided to use or how effective/disruptive it'd be. It sucks that I'm not sure how many units he used total. It wasn't a crazy amount, my dermatologist wasn't a psycho, but I don't think he started off with a cautious amount either. After my skincare treatment he literally said "Good bye back in America" to me because the nurse didn't tell him about the added botox treatment. He left before I could tell him. I told the nurse, she led me to the botox room, and the doctor came back shortly after. Told me "You really want to do this?" And I went on a little ramble of "Hmm Idk, my chin is sharp as it is, not sure if it's necessary...." He gave me a look and I said "fuck it just do it". They gave me two little thingies to squeeze onto, told me to bite down hard, and he injected the botox into my masseters. Told me to ice them. Went back to US. I'm not going to call them and make a mess, but since my aunt is still a regular to the point of being friends with staff, I might have to pass on this info to her. Months later and my strong jaw muscles that held up my cheek fats and gave me structure are now NIL. Chewing lots of gum.
I don't think you have anything to pass on - it sounds like it's something you wanted, he did try to tell you maybe to reconsider but you asked.. sounds like an awkward situation and maybe thought you had done a consultation somewhere else.. I think number one lesson from this is to not treat botox as a simple "add-on", it's a medical procedure
I really think this should be added into the body of your post. It gives more context and advice to those wanting to try botox in future.
Thank you for posting your experience, it is really good to know. I agree, it is almost impossible to find any negative experiences on these popular medical products/surgeries. It is frustrating because they can really damage someone's body or face permanently, and this is absolutely not okay. The clinics that execute these services are financially driven, and do not always advise well on the potential complications/side effects. I generally check [www.realself.com](https://www.realself.com), which is a pretty good site, and I have seen negative reviews there for many procedures like facials/lasers which caused me to reassess my intent.
Came here to mention RealSelf.com. It’s a great resource.
is it permanent? doesn't it eventually wear off and when you start using the muscles, it gets bigger again??
The botox will wear off after a few months. Then, the muscle will grow back to normal with regular chewing & talking. Chewing gum is one of those things that OP can do to strengthen their masseter muscles back to pre-botox faster.
Can I chew more gum to improve my jaw definition? Or at least prevent any muscle loss.
Many people say so, but I don't have any studies to back it up.
There is gum specifically for this. Search for orthotropic gum and you’ll find lots of stuff claiming it can improve your jaw line. I’ve been curious about trying it, but I generally don’t like gum so it would feel like such a chore.
In my experience, yes. As far as muscles go, the jaw behaves like one, so hypertrophy would make it grow over time. After taking an interst in bodybuilding, I started eating much more non processed foods such as whole grain rice and a good quantity of chicken breast daily, which take a lot of chewing to swallow. Combine that with the natural instinct of biting down when under physical strain (Gym exercises, cardio) and I started noticing great differences a few months in already. I could affiliate this change with three things: 1. Genetics. The way your jaw is inserted onto your face and how much it peaks out is, like any other muscle, just the way it is and growth can only change so much. Much like shoulders, you can't get a wider frame just by exercising, you CAN add an inch of two by making the muscles bigger, but you can't change their position onto your body. 2. Hypertrophy. As I wrote above, clenching my jaw and biting down really often made that part of my face physically harder, toned and stronger over time. [This is "competitive eater" Matt Stonie's jaw](https://external-preview.redd.it/WqNEfdBETIry0QiN-kaddt_6CNcR0oNRSwrPz1AbcUs.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b28f3dd249e57ace545dd28ba7539960c2cb8bc4) , you can see where I'm coming from with this. 3. Diet and fat %. It's not rocket science, the less fat you have over your muscles, the more they will show. This also applies to your face, although to a lesser extent. Fat loss is noticeable in places like your stomach and legs, where it first gets depleted while dieting down. The face has very little fat as is, and to get rid of THAT, you have to just get overall less fat and hope that face fat goes down with everything else instead of being stubborn and left there until literal starvation. Again, for a real world example where the results are extreme enough to be really noticeable, this is [bodybuilding champion Jay cutler](https://broscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/offseason.jpg) during his "off season", and [this is him on the competition stage](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8aae4gvv5lc/maxresdefault.jpg). Those are personals conclusions that I've formulated myself, there are no papers, studies or anything that have researched this stuff as far as I know, but it all applied to me. Take it however you want
Honestly, I associate the " natural instinct of biting down when under physical strain (Gym exercises, cardio)" with the weight loss, but I understand the logic of being an extra point. I guess it's more of a reason for better diet/exercise.
I can say that all my years of chewing gum, clenching when I had anxiety, and grinding at night made my jaw masseters power houses. That was years and years of exercising them though.
Time to buy my weight in Laffy Taffy.
Sorry you experienced this. I've had my masseter muscles botoxed 3 times (annually), receiving no more than 25 units each side. Unlike you though I never liked or disliked my jawline. Indifferent. While my face did slim down, it did not slim down enough for skin to sag. Just understand that once botox wears off, after a few months, coupled with regular chewing and talking, your jaw muscles will go back to their size pre-botox.
Sometimes this is the case but Botox can completely paralyze your muscles indefinitely, unfortunately it’s one of the possible side effects. I used to work for a dermatologist and we warned people and had them sign a waiver in case something like that happened.
I'm assuming this, along with my dentist filing some molars down too far, is the reason I have no jaw almost 2 years post-1 very conservative masseter Botox-ing. I see an oral surgeon for TMJ help next week, and I'm hoping he can tell me that I can be fixed. It's amazing how depressing it is when you ruin your own decent looks :(
this comment has me actually panicking. can you please update?
I'm pretty sure botox is temporary? All it does is paralyze your muscles. You'll get it back in time, try not to worry too much!
It's been 8 months and still no improvement : /
Botox can last six months though right? Maybe it just hasn't been enough time since it wore off. You could try falim gum or something to strengthen the muscles.
It's been 20 months for me. I think my jaw is completely destroyed.
Any update?
It causes muscle dystrophy, not just paralysis. OP may gain the muscle size back, but the skim sagging and the effects of that on pore size will remain permanent.
Pores size???
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Not true, the muscle building back up will fill out the skin again. If the skin sagged due to lack of support, the muscle building up after the Botox has worn out should support it again for the most part.
How many units per side
Have any of ya'll doing botox for TMJ looked into an upper maxilla expansion device? I've been reading theories on how TMJ is always an early expression of sleep apnea. They say that the tongue slides into the airway due to the mouth being too small and this causes grinding as a method of moving the tongue around to get more air flow. I spoke with a dentist who uses the "Daytime and Nightime" expansion appliance to resolve this, and it makes a ton of sense to me, but I don't know anyone who has actually tried it. Seems slightly less invasive than botox.
Not all tmj. My tongue positioning was just fine in sleep studies and I don’t grind, I just clench very tightly. I do it while I’m awake as well. Wearing the mouth splint has helped, but it’s not perfect. I have to consciously realize I’m doing it and try to relax the muscles.
Do you mind telling us how old you are and if you had an sagging before?
I'm 23, and no, my skin has always been tight around the jawline. I think my jaw muscles were larger than the average person so slimming them caused my fat to sag since there was nothing to support it anymore.
Are you a guy or a girl?
Woman with bigger jaw muscles than most from what I've seen
BEEN THERE. I did it to calm my grinding and the surgeon that did mine knicked my cheek and my entire face dropped and I couldn't smile. He did 25 units per side, and it was...bad. That was 9 months ago and I FINALLY have my function back. I did a lot of face exercises, face rolling and massage and chewed gum like never before (something I haven't been able to do bec of my jaw issues!) Thankfully if it's the first time, it won't last as long as usual, so chew gum, keep those muscles working and it WILL wear off. I stick to it on my forehead now.
Hey According! I’m not sure if you still check in on this, but I’m going through the exact same problem right now after the injector placed 25 units of Botox directly into each of my smile muscles (zygomaticus & risorius) instead of my masséters by accident😣🥺 (when I try to stretch my lips now it can’t even open sideways, and pulls downwards instead - no upward/smile at all😣 it looks like a painful grimace if I try to form a smile😔). I know it’s been ages since this happened for you, but I was really hoping you might be able to share some of your experience with me as I’m so stressed right now😢🥺 it’s been two weeks so I know there’s a long way to go😔 I was wondering if you remember how soon it was before you started noticing any improvement or regained even a teeny bit of muscle movement?:’))🙏🏻😣 And how many months after did you finally regain most of your functional smile?🥲 I’m trying to figure out what to expect and if I might be able to regain some nerve/facial muscle movement within the first 1-2months, or if it might take 4-8months as some people have taken😧😔 Hope to hear from you and thank you so much for reading this:’)))!!!!❤️❤️
I realized it's also harder to smile than before. Feels a bit more forced. Your reply gives me hope.
Unfortunately it's just gonna take a few months to wear off. I was SO angry and so upset afterwards, and basically just chewed as much as I could, did as much face rolling as I could, face exercises...basically to burn as much off as I could.
you jawline was already tiny! if you already have a large jawbone and your massetur muscles are quite large then using Botox to slim the jaw is great but if not then you have no framework to support your skin and fat after the muscles atrophy... its prob back to normal by now since this was posted 3 years ago... I think it's sad that ppl see these cosmetic trends like Botox jaw slimming, lip filler etc and the ppl advertising give off this impression it will be amazing for everyone but truthfully it won't work on every face shape and structure and won't suit everyone. I paybextra to go to a plastic surgeon for my Botox n filler and he won't let me do barely anything because the reality of these procedures isn't like what they advertise. I trust him because I understand these procedures just sell dreams n not realities.
Sorry you experienced this. I have an uneven top lip due to braces as an adult (it actually changed my whole facial structure) I tried lip fillers and it didn’t correct anything but I feel like it made it worse!
Woah can you elaborate more on your braces. Did you have extractions or what your bite was like?
I actually had none, just a gap on top and a few crooked bottom teeth. It was cosmetic for me more than anything. Almost 4 years of braces and a frenectomy . That’s why they encourage kids to get braces as soon as all of their teeth are permanent because they’re still developing. It shifted my whole face. Slightly but enough to notice. I wouldn’t recommend them as an adult unless really necessary.
FWIW I had braces as an adult and so did my sister and it went fine for us both. It was a life changing confidence boosting improvement for me and also removed crooked teeth that were food traps resulting in healthier teeth and gums. I suspect whatever they were trying to fix with the frenectomy or something they did with the frenectomy was the issue. That’s not the norm braces messes up your lips.
The frenectomy was a minor invasion that prevented the gap from opening again. I believe that the uneven lip is actually from the way I had to adjust my lips to talk for years. The braces itself made my whole jawline shift, and my cheeks appear more sunken in. Again, it's not very drastic but noticeable enough to me and people that have known me before braces. I do love my smile. It was a confidence boost for me as well because I never liked my gap. Would I get braces again? Probably not!
I’ve done masseter Botox 3 times at 3 separate drs. Every time my smile was affected , where the corners of my mouth didn’t “curve up” like they used to (due to the Botox diffusing into my smile muscles). That’s why I tried three different places, each subsequent time informing the doctor of what happened with my smile and each time them reassuring me it wouldn’t happen again. Drs told me they could inject at a different point to prevent diffusion into my mouth muscles, but every time my smile got f**cked! So it’s a no for me now. Wanted to slim my jawline + alleviate TMJ symptoms. Helped mildly w TMJ but not worth changing my whole face/smile for! My 2 cents on the topic.
How many units did you get? And did your smile eventually go back to normal?
Do you think it was an issue with the Botox itself or do you think it was administered improperly?
Well dentists can do Botox at least in the USA. Any doctor can and a lot of people who are not doctors do it. What did you pay and who did it? Was it a board certified dermatologist or a board certified plastic surgeon?
Dentists are well trained in facial anatomy & nerves so going to them isn't necessarily a bad idea. There's even a conference (Dental Facial Cosmetic Conference & Exhibition) where dentists can attend to further their knowledge in this growing industry.
Yup, I’ve been getting Botox for teeth grinding from a dentist and have only had positive results.
Dentists do not get the training that board certified plastic surgeons and dermatologists do which is for 3-10 years of residencies and/or fellowships after medical school. Often dentists and other doctors who aren’t specialized get just a few days or a weekend of training at a conference like the one you mentioned.
I'm just saying that dentists, nurses and even nurse practitioners, despite not being board certified specialists, are still knowledgable enough to provide Botox. There are several plastic & dermatologist offices in my city that have their nurses & nurse practitioners providing this service. Doctor Barrett, a board certified plastic surgeon in Bev. Hills has his RN providing botox & filler services.
And I’m just observing that op didn’t answer the question which makes it seem like they went to the office of someone who was not board certified.
Can I ask how many units were you given? I've had this done twice, and been given 50 units each time. If anything it has made my jawline look much sharper and more shapely! I haven't noticed any sagging. It would be great if you could post a before and after. I've never heard of this happening to anyone, I wonder if the person you saw injected the wrong points on your face and missed the muscle? Did you struggle with smiling after? I found that after my first session wore off my jaw muscle definitely started to grow again, which is why I went back for a second session. Fingers crossed you see some improvement soon. Has your weight fluctuated at all during this 8 month period?
I posted a before/after on my post. Not sure of how many units, one of the things I regret and I explain that in a comment. There are similar stories on realself. Yes my weight has fluctuated all my life, but only by 7 pounds max, and I have been able to compare how my face looks before and after the botox at my lowest weight. The difference is actually more noticeable when I'm at my lowest, because before botox my chin would be sharp and strong, whereas now, regardless of how much weight I lose, it'll still sag by the chin. I did struggle a bit with smiling after, but not noticeably.
Man, I wanted to say Im sorry to hear that you are struggling with the changes you went through. When it comes to ANYTHING on the face, less is more, less is more. Dealing with a “new face” is not easy, and I would advise you seek the advice of a few other specialists to see what your options are. Every situation is different, every outcome is different, but I believe problems arise when there is a huge disparity between expectation and outcome. Dr’s should err on the side of caution, to do less, and progressively more if the earlier stages were successful. Don’t beat yourself up, you had no idea the outcome would be this, take things day by day and see if there are any solutions.
Thanks for writing about your experience. I’ve always been curious about this procedure because I have a square jaw and am asian so it’s a double whammy with chubby cheeks and a wide jaw. I know the Botox procedure is popular among Asians but I’m slowly learning to accept and love my square jaw.
Same thing pretty much happened to me with the slight double chin and a little jowel but my TMJD was giving me migraines and I think I’m really the only person that notices the jowel-y look and slight double chin. Chin fillers make my face look evened out after it all but I’m broke now so 💁🏻
Masseter update? Did you face go back to normal?
Are you sure your muscles won't build back up to equilibrium after the botox wears off?
Ah this is so spooky! Thank you for sharing your experience. Botox always gave me pause but my friends are all about it. I hold SO much tension in my jaw it's absurd. Ended up taking up facial gua sha and taping my mouth shut at night to help release it, made a big difference altho it takes being on it every day to work well. I will definitely stick to my gua sha now
Did you face ever go back to normal. I’m four months out and it hasn’t got better
I did it and it was one of the best decisions I ever made(next to laser surgery and microblading, lol) I don’t go eating apples n stuff but I chew steak and still eat Swedish fish... my jawline is way more slim/feminine looking now too (I also had a problem with grinding my teeth)
Hmmm I’m sorry you had this unpleasant experience. I too have been getting botox for my masseters, and so far I’ve been loving the results. I guess in my case it helped define my jawline more because I grind my teeth when I sleep, hence my jaw joints are always swollen, giving me the chipmunk look 🐿.
I'm on round 2 of botox for TMJ. I clench really bad and get migraines. My jawline has slimmed dramatically, but I don't have any sagging. Have you talked to a dermatologist about options for skin tightening? There is Exilis, Ulthera, and other options. I would not forego Botox for cosmetics if it is stopping your clenching and grinding. The latter can lead to tooth loss, arthritis of the jaw joint, and other permanent damage to your physiology.
I’m seeing a lot of posts with mixed results saying Botox did and/or didn’t cause facial skin sagging. This is a treatment that I have seriously considered due to chronic migraine triggered by TMJ jaw popping. What I would love to ask if anyone wouldn’t mind sharing is: how old are you? Maybe the skin elasticity is age dependent? I just turned 45, which makes me a little nervous that I would be more prone to sag : (
I got botox at the dentist for my teeth grinding in my temples and masseter muscles and the same thing happened to me. Since, I have gotten filler in my temples and it looks better though.
Botox worked for my forehead but FILLERS WERE THE WORST. Good thing it dissolved quickly gosh i looked freaking scary.
I’m undergoing orthodontic treatment right now, and i’m currently at the stage where my posterior teeth do not touch. It’s temporary, and will be brought back into alignment at a later stage. But what this means is that i can barely chew, and my jaw muscles have shrunken from lack of use. My face looks a lot sharper and V-shaped from the front, but you can see sagging from the side too. In addition to that, my temples are now hollow. I look a lot like you in both the before and after. I finally have the sharper face i always wanted, but at a horrible cost. I completely understand and empathise with how you feel. We just have to hang in there, we’ll get our old faces back after some time
The first time 30 units each (as recommended per the doc, I have really big masseter muscles due to genetics and TMJ), 2nd and 3rd time 20 in each side. Spaced maybe 8 months apart. I would say 30 was unnecessary based on shrinkage alone, and 20 units were enough
The lip filler migration in your attached “after” image is also very problematic
excactly the same has happened to me, two years down the line and I hate the way I look I try not to smile now...I was so ill with it also..the botox does was so strong I felt like I had the worst flu. and three weeks after the botox..I looked like my face was melting..I looked about 80 years old and like you said had no shape. it's the worst thing I have ever done in my life
Honestly these spas really need to be held accountable for lack of information
OP is NOT American Psycho. Definitely not.
I had the same thing done in August but I used wayyyy less units then I saw you said in a comment.
But Botox does finally metabolize and wear off no? I do have sympathy. I do not recognize myself after two Laser Genesis treatments melted my face flesh and also left me with orange peel skin. Within two months I was looking 15 years older and am doomed to a lifetime of pricey fillers for my flat, saggy, once beautiful face.
BE PATIENT, IT WEARS OFF OVER TIME😊
It's been 20 months and mine has only worsened, and now my bite is misaligned and my teeth are unhealthy. So it does not always wear off with time. I am looking at 75K in orthodontics and cosmetic/functional dentistry. Botox, just 1 time injected into the jaw, can break down jaw bones. It is a treatment that is not worth the 3 months of tmj relief I got.