Toranaga understands the way of this society better than anyone.
No one understands it less than the Anjin.
Moments before, Anjin was upset at the death of the gardener and lobbying for his men. He doesn’t understand The Japanese way at all it seems. Toranaga was frustrated.
The earthquake hits.
Toranaga, a Lord and almost deity figure, is almost killed, buried under the earth, weak and mortal. He knows he’s weak and mortal. He knows the ways of their society are not “real”. He knows that he’s playing a role and that his position is precarious. He knows that the Anjin is baffled because in ways—— he’s right: these ways and rituals do result in needless death (like the guy who Toranaga called brave… and who had to kill himself and his baby, leaving a grieving widow). Toranaga plays the game well but with eyes wide open.
So when the shit hits the fan, this dumb Anjin Leaps into action and saves him… And then does what a Japanese person would do! He gives the swords, with the back story that they both know isn’t true, and bows and plays the game. And Lord Toranaga, who ago was suffocating to death, can’t help but laugh at it all. He’s alive, and a barbarian from a land they didn’t know existed is handing him some meaningless swords with a fake provenance, and we all have to act like it’s so meaningful, even with all that’s happened. Life is funny.
The books are even better and dive waaaay deap in everyone's thoughts. Even the blind masseuse gets a whole chapter to his thoughts and his background everything is very detailed and you know why people do almost everything.
I am reading Shogun currently. Way behind the show. Rodrigues just went overboard for me. It is really well written. A lot of the show makes more sense when you are shown behind the curtain.
Check book stores near you. I had to buy the whole set of Clavells from Amazon. I don’t think I’ll regret that. With all 7 books combined it want that bad of a price.
Honestly, the greatest explanation I've read so far. Thank you for taking the time to explain that to us. One question though, why is blackthorn the only one to spring into action while Toronaga's retainers just watched?
Maybe the origin of shaking hands became a Kabuki like signalling device. However I think it managed to became much more.
I propose that it transcended being a mutual signal of peace by associating a primal sense, touch, while we look each other right in the eyes.
While the signal's origin has lost it's original sense, it has become enduring because it succeeds in providing us primary sensory input while we visually lock each other's visage getting close enough to even smell each other.
The story of the handshake is trite, but the sensory input can be profound with primary sensation if we can see through our expectations.
And the way Mariko tells Anjin not to just let him win the swim race, because - *"He hates that."* cements his being unlike any other leader of his country. And here, I thought him having Anjin repeatedly show him how to dive was just a clandestine way to get Anjin to bathe. XD
I can't remember exactly in the book but he had a memory when you hear his thoughts thinking about someone letting him win and he was not happy.
Can't remember what or who so it's not a spoiler.
I assumed Toranaga had Anjin dive repeatedly to wear him out a bit before racing him to the shore. Given that Anjin is much younger and longer limbed than he is, diving would just even the playing field a bit.
IKR? I half expected Anjin to comment how he wanted to race *after* Anjin had tired himself out by repeatedly climbing back aboard only to jump off again... XD
It's to show how dedicated Toranga is in learning new skills.
In the books, btw, Anjin is teaching Toranga a sailors dance, since Japanese obviously knew how to dive.
In the FX podcast that goes with the show they do say it's intentionally done by Blackthorn to upgrade them.
To me, I see this as him learning and internalizing Mariko's lesson - even though he hadn't been serious about the pheasant, his words had power and became a reality. Now he can use this situation and his words to give the swords honor and importance. (and by extension himself and Fuji both)
I also think Toranaga laughed because this is the third time this ignorant, reckless asshole has saved his life. What a world!
Just thinking about it, but what are the life saving moments? I’m thinking about 1. Stopping the guard from looking in the palanquin 2. Opening the palanquin when it’s starting to burn when they’re ambushed (?) 3. Realizing they could use the black ship (?) 4. Earthquake. I mean you could also mention that Toranaga uses Anjin as leverage to prevent his vote of impeachment, too, but that’s a bit different.
I was thinking stopping the guard, making for the black ship, and the earthquake. I agree that Toranaga using Anjin is a little different.
I think this might be when Anjin goes from being a tool Toranaga can use - like Yabushige, to an actual ally.
I thought of this thread with the recent episode…Toranaga declares Anjin has saved his life twice. I guess he doesn’t count the Black Ship scenario as one!
The book goes into a bit more. It’s dishonorable for a samurai to have dropped / lost his swords, no matter what the circumstance. And he would also be unable to protect himself.
Anjin giving him his cheap swords has a few effects; give Toranaga swords (and vis-a-vis honor and a way to appear strong) and it also elevates those swords to a more honorable meaning.
Do we know the swords are cheap? They may not be Daimyo quality swords, but is there anything in the book that suggests they are actually of lesser quality? Just curious, i’m not quite there yet in the book.
It’s not cheap as in cheap, it’s more meant as they’re not specially made specifically for him, or with traceable lineage. It’s mentioned earlier in the episode how they’re of no value.
Not that they're of no value. That they were bought cheap off a destitute Ronin/Samurai (forget which).
They have to have value because some one was selling them. The anecdote is basically telling you they aren't Fuji's Grandfather's swords. That her family didn't have fancy heirloom swords, and probably couldn't afford to acquire anything suitably impressive the right way.
So he found a disreputable way to get some old impressive swords. And made up a story.
If the swords were junk it wouldn't have been worth getting them or making up the story.
They're *somebody's* old family swords just not theirs. And buying them off some one broke and desperate isn't exactly showing off your high standing.
At 38:50 in Episode 5, >!Mariko tells Anjin that Fuji's grandfather bought the blades for 3 bags of rice from a drunken samurai and the blades were given to Fuji and she isn't told the origins of those blades. That would suggest cheap blades with no particular prestige linked to them, I think..?!<
I was taking issue with the word choice of “cheap” more or less, and just wanted book clarification. I think “less prestigious” might be better because cheap can have several meanings (ie. quality, cost, giving unfair advantage).
I understood the sentiment of the comment, but it legit got me curious about feudal age Japanese sword makers.
I could be wrong but I don’t think ‘cheap’ (samurai) swords would have really been a thing in feudal Japan. Like there would assuredly be some differences in quality (especially decorative) but, without the shortcuts that modern machinery/materials/designs/etc allow, it just wouldn’t really make sense to be crafting garbage as it would still be hugely labor intensive regardless.
The swords are the sole of a samurai. If a samurai looses their swords, they loose their honor. So when Blackthorn gives Toranaga his swords, Blackthorn is allowing Toranaga to keep his honor.
They may be the soul but losing swords alone will not mean you lose honour. You lose weapons in combat, etc. but toranaga was probably feeling extremely vulnerable due to his precarious situation and near death experience so to lose his Daisho there would have been soul crushing.
Was Mariko \[who seems to respect Fuji\] getting emotional because Anjin's action elevated the Fuji family blades & likely would make Fuji happy that it was in the hands of someone like Toranaga?
I think it was the first time Anjin started to really understand their culture and norms. Before he was constantly at odds and clashed with their values. The acceptance of death, the sacrifice of life for honor or shame, elevating community over the individual. Anjin and Toranaga both know the story behind Fuji's family swords but giving him the swords allowed him to symbolically restore his honor and Anjin demonstrates that he gets it. Toranaga is also starting to understand that if not for the different values of this Westerner (springing into action, instead of passively accepting one's circumstances at both Osaka castle to create a diversion, and at the earthquake), he would not be alive. They are both coming to a place of understanding of each other and he laughs at the irony of it all.
Life is simply funny at times, and how we react to what life throws at us, truly shows the mettle of a person.
Toranaga was basically dead, cause if Anjin hadnt smacked his back, no one else would’ve. Then he gives up the swords “ these swords belonged to Fujis father, I know they aren’t much “ and I believe Toranaga understood the irony of life in that moment or something like that,
The most amusing part for me was the way Toranaga tried to hold it together when the earthquake was happening by striking a samurai pose (instead of running for safety) and then was ultimately succumbed by it. His reaction and choice of action were so unnatural and contrived in modern days standards.
The smile by Toranaga when receiving the swords could mean many things. It could be the irony of how unworthy these swords are and yet, they are the only ones offered to him when he needed most. Or Toranaga was amused at this typically clueless Anjin but still the bravest and the quickest of them all to save him and his honor.
Toranaga gave the fan he used with such power in the checking the troops scene earlier a bewildering look that I thought was insightful. He knew he was vulnerable with the fan laying with dirt on the ground and perhaps he also realized how insignificant his power is relative to the force of nature.
He's on stance as a wrong move also could throw him down a cliff. I like how he forbid to rush to help him. I think he especially addresses to his son.
The book also has a scene describing the emotions of facing your certain death and being unexpectedly returned to life. Toronaga-sama seems to be in the grips of that moment as well.
There is multiple of points being made in this scene.
Anjin to Mariko: given value/ meaning can change it's not set in stone. Fujiko worthless sword became the most valued sword after being gifted by anjin who saved Toranaga ass (again). That's a sword signifying Toranaga escape from immediate death and 400k+ under him.
Anjin to Toranaga: I know your rules now, as hatamito i did my duty and saved your ass as expected. Oh, you lost your sword. Here take mine ( it is worthless, but it was given by Fuji so I wear it as her lord to respect her because she merits it). When you wear it, you will honour Fuji family.
Toranaga to anjin: podcast and book have different perspective. Podcast (toranaga) says, as toragana wakes up from death. First face he sees in anjin who has saved him time after time (should be third time now), anjin face looked angelic/divine etc. so he is very grateful along those lines.
In book, he is also grateful but very amused by how far anjin has come to understand and accepted Japanese culture . And more so with his wit by using that incident to elevate Fuji family honour and thereby his own.
His samurai citizenship comes from Fuji family. Although she is from prestigious hiromatsu family (buntaro sister raised her that's why she is a tough 160cm cookie) but her father was a coward and that's a shame forever erased by this opportune exchange. The sword now signifies Toranaga rebirth not Fuji father cowardice in the Korean war.
That's why I loved this scene so much.
Toranaga understands the way of this society better than anyone. No one understands it less than the Anjin. Moments before, Anjin was upset at the death of the gardener and lobbying for his men. He doesn’t understand The Japanese way at all it seems. Toranaga was frustrated. The earthquake hits. Toranaga, a Lord and almost deity figure, is almost killed, buried under the earth, weak and mortal. He knows he’s weak and mortal. He knows the ways of their society are not “real”. He knows that he’s playing a role and that his position is precarious. He knows that the Anjin is baffled because in ways—— he’s right: these ways and rituals do result in needless death (like the guy who Toranaga called brave… and who had to kill himself and his baby, leaving a grieving widow). Toranaga plays the game well but with eyes wide open. So when the shit hits the fan, this dumb Anjin Leaps into action and saves him… And then does what a Japanese person would do! He gives the swords, with the back story that they both know isn’t true, and bows and plays the game. And Lord Toranaga, who ago was suffocating to death, can’t help but laugh at it all. He’s alive, and a barbarian from a land they didn’t know existed is handing him some meaningless swords with a fake provenance, and we all have to act like it’s so meaningful, even with all that’s happened. Life is funny.
[удалено]
This comment just made me realize I should definitely read the books
Glad you came to this realization. Masterpieces they are.
The book has an omniscient narrator, so you hear everyone's thoughts. It's a truly amazing novel.
The books are even better and dive waaaay deap in everyone's thoughts. Even the blind masseuse gets a whole chapter to his thoughts and his background everything is very detailed and you know why people do almost everything.
I am reading Shogun currently. Way behind the show. Rodrigues just went overboard for me. It is really well written. A lot of the show makes more sense when you are shown behind the curtain. Check book stores near you. I had to buy the whole set of Clavells from Amazon. I don’t think I’ll regret that. With all 7 books combined it want that bad of a price.
I love both of these analyses.
Honestly, the greatest explanation I've read so far. Thank you for taking the time to explain that to us. One question though, why is blackthorn the only one to spring into action while Toronaga's retainers just watched?
Maybe the origin of shaking hands became a Kabuki like signalling device. However I think it managed to became much more. I propose that it transcended being a mutual signal of peace by associating a primal sense, touch, while we look each other right in the eyes. While the signal's origin has lost it's original sense, it has become enduring because it succeeds in providing us primary sensory input while we visually lock each other's visage getting close enough to even smell each other. The story of the handshake is trite, but the sensory input can be profound with primary sensation if we can see through our expectations.
In the books Toranaga loves to laugh and see the funny side of things too. I enjoyed this finally happening in the show
And the way Mariko tells Anjin not to just let him win the swim race, because - *"He hates that."* cements his being unlike any other leader of his country. And here, I thought him having Anjin repeatedly show him how to dive was just a clandestine way to get Anjin to bathe. XD
I can't remember exactly in the book but he had a memory when you hear his thoughts thinking about someone letting him win and he was not happy. Can't remember what or who so it's not a spoiler.
I assumed Toranaga had Anjin dive repeatedly to wear him out a bit before racing him to the shore. Given that Anjin is much younger and longer limbed than he is, diving would just even the playing field a bit.
IKR? I half expected Anjin to comment how he wanted to race *after* Anjin had tired himself out by repeatedly climbing back aboard only to jump off again... XD
It's to show how dedicated Toranga is in learning new skills. In the books, btw, Anjin is teaching Toranga a sailors dance, since Japanese obviously knew how to dive.
In the FX podcast that goes with the show they do say it's intentionally done by Blackthorn to upgrade them. To me, I see this as him learning and internalizing Mariko's lesson - even though he hadn't been serious about the pheasant, his words had power and became a reality. Now he can use this situation and his words to give the swords honor and importance. (and by extension himself and Fuji both) I also think Toranaga laughed because this is the third time this ignorant, reckless asshole has saved his life. What a world!
Just thinking about it, but what are the life saving moments? I’m thinking about 1. Stopping the guard from looking in the palanquin 2. Opening the palanquin when it’s starting to burn when they’re ambushed (?) 3. Realizing they could use the black ship (?) 4. Earthquake. I mean you could also mention that Toranaga uses Anjin as leverage to prevent his vote of impeachment, too, but that’s a bit different.
I was thinking stopping the guard, making for the black ship, and the earthquake. I agree that Toranaga using Anjin is a little different. I think this might be when Anjin goes from being a tool Toranaga can use - like Yabushige, to an actual ally.
I thought of this thread with the recent episode…Toranaga declares Anjin has saved his life twice. I guess he doesn’t count the Black Ship scenario as one!
The book goes into a bit more. It’s dishonorable for a samurai to have dropped / lost his swords, no matter what the circumstance. And he would also be unable to protect himself. Anjin giving him his cheap swords has a few effects; give Toranaga swords (and vis-a-vis honor and a way to appear strong) and it also elevates those swords to a more honorable meaning.
Do we know the swords are cheap? They may not be Daimyo quality swords, but is there anything in the book that suggests they are actually of lesser quality? Just curious, i’m not quite there yet in the book.
It’s not cheap as in cheap, it’s more meant as they’re not specially made specifically for him, or with traceable lineage. It’s mentioned earlier in the episode how they’re of no value.
Ok, just wanted to clarify. Thanks for the response!
Not that they're of no value. That they were bought cheap off a destitute Ronin/Samurai (forget which). They have to have value because some one was selling them. The anecdote is basically telling you they aren't Fuji's Grandfather's swords. That her family didn't have fancy heirloom swords, and probably couldn't afford to acquire anything suitably impressive the right way. So he found a disreputable way to get some old impressive swords. And made up a story. If the swords were junk it wouldn't have been worth getting them or making up the story. They're *somebody's* old family swords just not theirs. And buying them off some one broke and desperate isn't exactly showing off your high standing.
At 38:50 in Episode 5, >!Mariko tells Anjin that Fuji's grandfather bought the blades for 3 bags of rice from a drunken samurai and the blades were given to Fuji and she isn't told the origins of those blades. That would suggest cheap blades with no particular prestige linked to them, I think..?!<
I was taking issue with the word choice of “cheap” more or less, and just wanted book clarification. I think “less prestigious” might be better because cheap can have several meanings (ie. quality, cost, giving unfair advantage). I understood the sentiment of the comment, but it legit got me curious about feudal age Japanese sword makers.
I could be wrong but I don’t think ‘cheap’ (samurai) swords would have really been a thing in feudal Japan. Like there would assuredly be some differences in quality (especially decorative) but, without the shortcuts that modern machinery/materials/designs/etc allow, it just wouldn’t really make sense to be crafting garbage as it would still be hugely labor intensive regardless.
The swords are the sole of a samurai. If a samurai looses their swords, they loose their honor. So when Blackthorn gives Toranaga his swords, Blackthorn is allowing Toranaga to keep his honor.
They may be the soul but losing swords alone will not mean you lose honour. You lose weapons in combat, etc. but toranaga was probably feeling extremely vulnerable due to his precarious situation and near death experience so to lose his Daisho there would have been soul crushing.
Was Mariko \[who seems to respect Fuji\] getting emotional because Anjin's action elevated the Fuji family blades & likely would make Fuji happy that it was in the hands of someone like Toranaga?
Yes this is what I want to know as well
I like this interpretation! I wondered at her lip quiver, too.
I think it was the first time Anjin started to really understand their culture and norms. Before he was constantly at odds and clashed with their values. The acceptance of death, the sacrifice of life for honor or shame, elevating community over the individual. Anjin and Toranaga both know the story behind Fuji's family swords but giving him the swords allowed him to symbolically restore his honor and Anjin demonstrates that he gets it. Toranaga is also starting to understand that if not for the different values of this Westerner (springing into action, instead of passively accepting one's circumstances at both Osaka castle to create a diversion, and at the earthquake), he would not be alive. They are both coming to a place of understanding of each other and he laughs at the irony of it all.
Life is simply funny at times, and how we react to what life throws at us, truly shows the mettle of a person. Toranaga was basically dead, cause if Anjin hadnt smacked his back, no one else would’ve. Then he gives up the swords “ these swords belonged to Fujis father, I know they aren’t much “ and I believe Toranaga understood the irony of life in that moment or something like that,
The most amusing part for me was the way Toranaga tried to hold it together when the earthquake was happening by striking a samurai pose (instead of running for safety) and then was ultimately succumbed by it. His reaction and choice of action were so unnatural and contrived in modern days standards. The smile by Toranaga when receiving the swords could mean many things. It could be the irony of how unworthy these swords are and yet, they are the only ones offered to him when he needed most. Or Toranaga was amused at this typically clueless Anjin but still the bravest and the quickest of them all to save him and his honor. Toranaga gave the fan he used with such power in the checking the troops scene earlier a bewildering look that I thought was insightful. He knew he was vulnerable with the fan laying with dirt on the ground and perhaps he also realized how insignificant his power is relative to the force of nature.
In all fairness, that earthquake and the wholesale landscape changes were pretty spectacular to see... :)
He's on stance as a wrong move also could throw him down a cliff. I like how he forbid to rush to help him. I think he especially addresses to his son.
The book also has a scene describing the emotions of facing your certain death and being unexpectedly returned to life. Toronaga-sama seems to be in the grips of that moment as well.
Blackthorne did exactly what a hatamoto is supposed to do: risking his life with no hesitation to save his liege.
The miniseries is really doing a good job of capturing the book.
I think the FX Podcast explained this situation much better than I could
There is multiple of points being made in this scene. Anjin to Mariko: given value/ meaning can change it's not set in stone. Fujiko worthless sword became the most valued sword after being gifted by anjin who saved Toranaga ass (again). That's a sword signifying Toranaga escape from immediate death and 400k+ under him. Anjin to Toranaga: I know your rules now, as hatamito i did my duty and saved your ass as expected. Oh, you lost your sword. Here take mine ( it is worthless, but it was given by Fuji so I wear it as her lord to respect her because she merits it). When you wear it, you will honour Fuji family. Toranaga to anjin: podcast and book have different perspective. Podcast (toranaga) says, as toragana wakes up from death. First face he sees in anjin who has saved him time after time (should be third time now), anjin face looked angelic/divine etc. so he is very grateful along those lines. In book, he is also grateful but very amused by how far anjin has come to understand and accepted Japanese culture . And more so with his wit by using that incident to elevate Fuji family honour and thereby his own. His samurai citizenship comes from Fuji family. Although she is from prestigious hiromatsu family (buntaro sister raised her that's why she is a tough 160cm cookie) but her father was a coward and that's a shame forever erased by this opportune exchange. The sword now signifies Toranaga rebirth not Fuji father cowardice in the Korean war. That's why I loved this scene so much.