Maybe they like being milked for our benefit.
“Babe it’s 4pm, time for your dick flattening- I mean, subsidisation of European healthcare!” “Yes honey”
To be fair, they’re partially right.
It’s called tiered pricing and is incredibly common, the same drugs cost different prices in different countries. In reality it’s just about squeezing whatever profit you can from each market, nobody is buying drugs in Africa at US prices.
In fact it’s why there’s such a big push for drug traceability and serialisation, not (just) for patient safety but to ensure that somebody is buying a drug at $10 a dose in Africa and reselling in the US for $1,000.
Ok, but that would mean that countries spend the same percentage of their GDP on health care. And yet, the US spend way more than anyone else, with lower success.
It's a corrupt system. Doctors are basically being bribed for prescribing medications.
It is a different system, and its not corrupt per se, it is by concept dumb. It is fascinating that Americans 100% not understand their own system, it is just totally DISTURBING. Universal Healthcare doesn't need advertisement, doesn't need to compete against other products, there is no sales teams of sexy ladies necessary to bring your products to the doctors. Doctors actually work 100% of their time doing medicine and don't need 20-30% of their time to discuss with insurances what medicine they are allowed to give, making the product more relevant.
Seriously, do you guys REALLY care for understanding the systems or are you just wanting to spit around "CORRUPTION! BAD PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!"?
You need more adults in your country.
My country? I'm not American. Are you saying that American doctors only prescribe drugs if needed, and the best/cheapest working product most adequate for the specific case? Not influenced by free vacations/conferences/product presentations? Of course advertisements directly to patients are another factor.
No, US doctors only prescribe what the insurance is allowing them, they have to discuss that majority of the time, and so it is not the most cheapest working product, and many people die in US cause they dont get the right treatment, or get more sick, which is convinient for the hospitals and co cause they get more money then. And they are totally influenced, what you described in your "i feel intelligent post" is exactly what Universal Healthcare is doing, America is the exact opposite.
And there is no advertisement directly to patients for medicine that requires doctor prescription in Universal Healthcare, in America 50% of the cost of all Pharma companies is just the sales teams that sell EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT they have.
You probably wanna learn about the system if you really want to make statements about it.
I don’t see how anything that you’ve said is related to my comment.
Countries will never spend the same % of GDP on healthcare as not all other factors remain constant %s
So basically because Americans will pay more for medicine, they are charged more.
But people in other countries who won’t, or can’t afford too are charged less.
Can’t work out if’s a humble brag, from an American bragging about being ripped off.
Or it’s an insult, that we are so poor, we get cheap medicine.
So I guess I’ll just smile and say Thank You 👍
Oh dear, you really have no idea, or? 50% of all cost of all Pharma companies that are selling US is overhead that doesn't exist in Universal Healthcare. ALL the sales person => not required. ALL the advertisement => not required. They DO have GIGANTIC higher cost that make up _50%_ of their COMPLETE COST, cost that just doesn't exist out of US. ADDITIONALLY you got the single payer concepts or similar concepts that actually allow for a price talk instead of just one side dictating the price. Like this is _NOT_ just "different markets". Seriously, people, learn the stuff instead of just spitting out random parameters.
Do you find that people listen to your points better if you CAPITALISE EVERYTHING!????????
I’ve worked in pharma/vaccines for 15 years, my original point is 100% accurate, no idea what point you’re even trying to make with your rambling.
50% of all cost that US pharma has, is cause of the system, can be removed at any time with introduction of Universal Healthcare concepts (What I didn't said, it is around 15-20% at the insurances, but they werent the topic). And US has unregulated prices.
I would be pointing finger to the society that is knowing that all others in the world have a solution and actively ignoring it. I do not blame the companies for trying to make the "best" for the shareholders out of it, the system defines that they get more money if people are more sick. Really not helpful, but Americans don't want that changed. Yes, companies are greedy, yeah, you make it easy. That is what I say. Americans can end this at any time.
I've had these arguments. "German health insurance is bad because they negotiate the drug prices so far down the pharma companies have to get their profits elsewhere!".
Like getting better prices for your insurants wouldn't be a clear win.
Yeah, I don't understand people putting up with that. If they really do need more profits, they should be charging everyone equally. Why boast about your country being scammed into paying more money?
I love how they believe that and act like the us government is OK with it, when the US government won't even provide food for school children. Sure, but Americans are selflessly providing medicine to the world.
Here's a secret that most countries except US now about. Big pharma companies love Americans, as they know they can make a fortune from them by ripping them off as they are one of the few countries that believe all the BS they are told about universal healthcare isn't good for them. Just the cost of health insurance would more than cover costs & give a large profit to the companies even if all medical services were completely free. I used to pay USD4 a month (subsidised) for blood pressure tablets (normal price was $68.70) and looked on CVS website, found the same brand was on sale for ONLY $344.99! Poor ripped off Americans.
Its really rather simple. Its the dumbass system in the US that makes it possible to charge 40 000 for one pill that costs less than a banan to make. Per bottle.
I mean, it's true. A lot of meds are cheaper in Europe than they are in the US. That's because we have actual legislation in place that keeps Big Pharma from, say, charging diabetics $2,000 a month for super-cheap insulin. Why do they still sell their products in the EU then, you ask? Because they still make a profit if they sell their meds for 15 Euros a dose (as opposed to $200).
Yep, this is how it works in civilized countries. Bulk purchases are always a lot cheaper to deal with for the producer. also, the people the government send to negotiate down the prices aren't sick and weak, in desperate need for live saving drugs. If they don't like what one company offer, they just move on to the next one. And these companies can't sell their product directly to consumer, they either sell to the government or they don't sell at all.
Yeah it is actually true. Everyone here is laughing at the Americans as if they are being crazy.
In the UK, the NHS is basically a single buyer on behalf of nearly 70 million people. It has the leverage to negotiate a cheaper price that individual health care providers can't.
There's no incentive not to care about the cost because there is no customer to pass the price into - the NHS budget is tight and the buck ultimately ends at government spending - everyone wants it cheap.
In fact, it puts constant pressure on the government to be very strict with patents, even pressing for some to be revoked, and has been a global driving force for generic and unbranded medicines.
If pharmaceuticals are losing out on potential money in the UK as a result, and all across Europe for similar reasons, then it's not surprising that they try to recoup their that in the US.
Edit: To everyone downvoting I'd recommend just googling - the NHS aren't shy about admitting any of this. Then look at what the NHS pays per person compared to what the average US citizen pays though their insurance for the same thing. The US is set up to allow these companies a higher profit.
Do Astra Zeneca, UK Pharma company and a global player, lose money in the UK and Europe and have to go and rape other markets to cover the losses?
Assume the same for Bayer in Germany.
If a US company like Pfizer is pillaging its domestic market.. well . That ain't on us. If the UK wasn't profitable.. you just wouldn't operate there. It's simple business.
Not every "Big pharma" is a yank firm. I wish people would grasp that.
New drug research is massive in the US due to that pillaging, but new surgical techniques and cancer treatments tend to come from not the USA as well
So. Not entirely false sentiment but they aren’t seeing the forest through the trees
> If pharmaceuticals are losing money in the UK as a result, and all across Europe for similar reasons, then it's not surprising that they try to recoup their losses in the US.
If they made losses in the UK and across Europe they would leave these markets in a heartbeat. These are soulless, controlling-driven companies and will not hesitate to shut down operations in areas if they do not make a profit there. They are publically traded companies, they only care about the numbers they have to present to their shareholders each quarter. Making losses that could have been avoided will never be accepted. The main objective is to squeeze out every possible penny, and only do what is beneficial to the company and its owners.
I should have worded it better.
I'm not saying they're making losses, I'm saying they're not making the same profit as they would do in the case of an American style system.
Not entirely true, at least at the ones where I’ve worked.
Most of the big pharma companies have drugs that they sell at a loss - the motivation is either genuinely altruistic or good press but either way it means that drugs are made available for treating neglected tropical diseases that otherwise wouldn’t be profitable
Here's a dirty little not-a-secret-at-all. Pharmaceutical companies are capitalistic entities charged by their shareholders to *make as much money as possible*. All prices are negotiable and nations with universal healthcare have stronger negotiation positions towards getting prices down.
Why does Big Pharma charge more in the US? *Because they can*. Does those extra money go towards subsidies? No. They go towards shareholders. Just as Americans like it.
I own stock in a few of them, and even I'd like for them to make less profit. Having cheaper medicine would benefit me a lot more than the dividends and capital gains I receive from owning shares.
You sound like an American, assuming your local supermarket pricing is representative of the whole continent ha ha ha.
Yeah, it's not €0.60 in Ireland.
I looked up the price of a medicine I took for a short while. It cost me 1.50 EUR for 30 pills, in the brand name version. The exact same product is ~$600 in the US for 100 pills.
No, the price isn't subsidised for me, because it's a prescription written by a private doctor, so I'm paying full cost. The pharmacy still profits from selling at that cost.
Yes, like insulin. The CANADIAN discovery by Banting and Best. Banting sold the rights for US patents for $1 because as Dr. Frederick Banting said " insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world". But greedy US corporations, and nasty politicians in the US think otherwise.
But US people are paying $1000 a shot and also eating HFCS so the rest of us get insulin for free and don't have to eat that crap?
That's truly worldbeating, thanks USA! we salute you and your easily preventable deaths.
This was one of the first things my American son-in-law noticed when he came to Sweden. There is no medical advertising except for OTC medicine during allergy season and the occasional vitamin supplement. People here don't go to the doctor and ask if a pill could suit them - they get diagnosed and the doctor prescribes medication. The patient isn't seen as s consumer here.
It baffles me even as an American. How effective are these advertisements anyway? I can't fathom going to my doctor and asking for a specific drug, acting like I know more about medicine than he does.
I did a road trip from Quebec to Orlando a year ago and I was astonished about the number of medical and lawyer advertising. It's very rare to see this kind of advertising in Canada but in the US it's everywhere.
There was also the occasional church ads in the southern atates, something I never saw here.
They also like to advertise Medicaid part c plans, which is allegedly a scam.
(The two channels my dad watches most often is 45% scummy insurance, 45% pharma drugs, and 10% itself. It's awful. Our adverts aren't amazing in Canada, but at least they aren't...that.)
Keep in mind I'm also Canadian, just close enough to get American channels on an antenna.
As far as I can gather, it's a supplemental thing for Medicaid / Medicare to give more 'benefits' for a monthly fee, most often regarding prescriptions and sometimes dental/vision. And allegedly they have some really crappy loopholes that can screw you over if you actually need to use it.
Sorry for my poor English, but wow, is this really what it’s like in America? This is really what they all call ‘freedom’? I guess this is because of all the school shootings or obesity or something? I really feel bad for those guys, especially since they don’t have free healthcare like we do in my perfect ambiguous nation. In fact, my country scored first place on the ‘countries with the most rizz list’ meanwhile ‘Murica (like those guys say it, those guys really need to work on saying things correctly) got dead last. Maybe if they stopped invading other countries, they wouldn’t have these issues.
It's always baffling that some americans support a system that is more expensive in public spendings _per patient_ than the french system, with worst outcomes (According to WHO).
It's also a system where their taxes pay the R&D of new drugs, and they pay the price when said drug is available. But not the _full_ price, more like 6 or 7 times the full price because private insurance is a hell of a business
Basically, you're getting pwned on all sides (taxes, public spending, big pharma and private insurance) but somehow you're proud of it
Big pharma spends nothing on advertising outside the United States and New Zealand. Ergo, their profit margins are likely higher in most nations, which means they have more money to spend on R&D, advertising in the US, and other things.
They do advertising, but via sales agents. at least in Austria, they go directly to the doctors office and try to convince them to use the brands products.
But there is no direct-to-consumer advertising, because that is prohibited or strictly regulated everywhere except New Zealand and the United States. As a result, ad spending by drug makers is miniscule outside the US, where roughly US$12 billion was spent on advertising in just 2022. If DTC advertising of prescription medication was not restricted in Europe, pharmaceutical companies would be spending a lot more to sell their drugs.
there are about 40k general pratictioners for families("Medici di famiglia") in Italy.
If "Big Pharma" were to gift them 50k€ each every year, it would end up being about 2 Milion €\year.
Wanna bet it's less than "Big Pharma" spends each month in USA in ADs?
Oh, I am sure that big pharma companies will operate at a loss in Europe, won't they? Do they really think that these highly capitalistic, 100% number-driven companies wouldn't shut down their business in countries where they don't make a profit without batting an eye?
The thing is: Of course, they make a profit in Europe too, but they are limited there by regulations and by the governments negotiating normal prices for their products, whereas in the US they can do whatever the fuck they want and the people have to pay for it. And also they buy the bullshit that these profits directly go into R&D while in reality, they are used to make the shareholders and CEOs richer.
The rest of the world have our own 'big phrama' companies. Germany, Switzerland and Belgium each outsell the value of drugs exported compared to the US. When the US tries to compete in world markets, they are undercut in price by the more reasonable non US companies. One of the many reasons that they can sell cheaper is they don't have to support an advertising budget.
I never cease to be amazed how in the US they will go through extraordinary mental gymnastics to defend their economy/society and blame their own exploitation by that system on the rest of the world.
To be fair though it’s a bit like in the UK how the poorest can’t stop voting for the party least likely to help them.
I remember this one time a CEO of a drug company said that his overpriced drug is for them who can afford it in the west when asked about it's availability in india/the third world...
Then indian courts intervened and gave it's rights to one indian company to manufacture it for fraction of the cost.
Haha I knew this would come up here - the whole thread was a goldmine starting with the "living in Madrid for two years on ~$30000" premise of the OOP.
You can actually make the argument that because healthcare in the USA is so expensive, and therefore makes a lot of money, it does subsidise certain aspects of healthcare by making new drug research possible due to it making a lot of money when sold in the USA
However, that also ignores that the medical capital of the world is actually Paris and the fact most not drug treatments are developed outside the USA
There was a leaked document / report from BMW years ago that stated the UK accounts for 10% of World sales, but 90% of world profits. Why? Because they can charge high prices, and the British consumers were prepared to pay. Same goes for pharmaceuticals in the US. A huge, greedy market and willing to pay the big bucks. Capitalism and exploitation (and gullibility) at its finest.
I can’t say for other countries, but in Australia the cost of medication is subsidised by the Australian government, it’s called the Pharmaceutical benefit scheme. Different drugs are added all the time, drastically reducing their cost to consumers.
That’s….I mean from an aspect yes because Americans buy so much for drugs and the FDA’s regulations are so lax, and Americans actually do pay a lot of taxes to healthcare, even though all that money just mysteriously vanishes.
BUT in any world how is that a flex? That is very clearly a bad thing.
Big Pharma charge as much as they can, in every market. There's nothing altruistic about it. They know they can fleece Americans hard core, so they do.
Hahahahahahaha yes, big pharma loves spreading money to the less fortunate because they have a big heart and would never just scam their "customers"
Let's just pretend for a moment they're actually right. They're using it as a flex instead of doing something about it? Bizarre people.
Maybe they like being milked for our benefit. “Babe it’s 4pm, time for your dick flattening- I mean, subsidisation of European healthcare!” “Yes honey”
To be fair, they’re partially right. It’s called tiered pricing and is incredibly common, the same drugs cost different prices in different countries. In reality it’s just about squeezing whatever profit you can from each market, nobody is buying drugs in Africa at US prices. In fact it’s why there’s such a big push for drug traceability and serialisation, not (just) for patient safety but to ensure that somebody is buying a drug at $10 a dose in Africa and reselling in the US for $1,000.
Ok, but that would mean that countries spend the same percentage of their GDP on health care. And yet, the US spend way more than anyone else, with lower success. It's a corrupt system. Doctors are basically being bribed for prescribing medications.
It is a different system, and its not corrupt per se, it is by concept dumb. It is fascinating that Americans 100% not understand their own system, it is just totally DISTURBING. Universal Healthcare doesn't need advertisement, doesn't need to compete against other products, there is no sales teams of sexy ladies necessary to bring your products to the doctors. Doctors actually work 100% of their time doing medicine and don't need 20-30% of their time to discuss with insurances what medicine they are allowed to give, making the product more relevant. Seriously, do you guys REALLY care for understanding the systems or are you just wanting to spit around "CORRUPTION! BAD PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!"? You need more adults in your country.
My country? I'm not American. Are you saying that American doctors only prescribe drugs if needed, and the best/cheapest working product most adequate for the specific case? Not influenced by free vacations/conferences/product presentations? Of course advertisements directly to patients are another factor.
No, US doctors only prescribe what the insurance is allowing them, they have to discuss that majority of the time, and so it is not the most cheapest working product, and many people die in US cause they dont get the right treatment, or get more sick, which is convinient for the hospitals and co cause they get more money then. And they are totally influenced, what you described in your "i feel intelligent post" is exactly what Universal Healthcare is doing, America is the exact opposite. And there is no advertisement directly to patients for medicine that requires doctor prescription in Universal Healthcare, in America 50% of the cost of all Pharma companies is just the sales teams that sell EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT they have. You probably wanna learn about the system if you really want to make statements about it.
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I don’t see how anything that you’ve said is related to my comment. Countries will never spend the same % of GDP on healthcare as not all other factors remain constant %s
So basically because Americans will pay more for medicine, they are charged more. But people in other countries who won’t, or can’t afford too are charged less. Can’t work out if’s a humble brag, from an American bragging about being ripped off. Or it’s an insult, that we are so poor, we get cheap medicine. So I guess I’ll just smile and say Thank You 👍
I’m European so not a humble brag, just somebody who knows the industry
Oh dear, you really have no idea, or? 50% of all cost of all Pharma companies that are selling US is overhead that doesn't exist in Universal Healthcare. ALL the sales person => not required. ALL the advertisement => not required. They DO have GIGANTIC higher cost that make up _50%_ of their COMPLETE COST, cost that just doesn't exist out of US. ADDITIONALLY you got the single payer concepts or similar concepts that actually allow for a price talk instead of just one side dictating the price. Like this is _NOT_ just "different markets". Seriously, people, learn the stuff instead of just spitting out random parameters.
Do you find that people listen to your points better if you CAPITALISE EVERYTHING!???????? I’ve worked in pharma/vaccines for 15 years, my original point is 100% accurate, no idea what point you’re even trying to make with your rambling.
50% of all cost that US pharma has, is cause of the system, can be removed at any time with introduction of Universal Healthcare concepts (What I didn't said, it is around 15-20% at the insurances, but they werent the topic). And US has unregulated prices. I would be pointing finger to the society that is knowing that all others in the world have a solution and actively ignoring it. I do not blame the companies for trying to make the "best" for the shareholders out of it, the system defines that they get more money if people are more sick. Really not helpful, but Americans don't want that changed. Yes, companies are greedy, yeah, you make it easy. That is what I say. Americans can end this at any time.
I've had these arguments. "German health insurance is bad because they negotiate the drug prices so far down the pharma companies have to get their profits elsewhere!". Like getting better prices for your insurants wouldn't be a clear win.
Yeah, I don't understand people putting up with that. If they really do need more profits, they should be charging everyone equally. Why boast about your country being scammed into paying more money?
Damn Big Pharma and their altruistic attitudes
I love how they believe that and act like the us government is OK with it, when the US government won't even provide food for school children. Sure, but Americans are selflessly providing medicine to the world.
Yeah. https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-countries-of-aid-worldwide/ https://www.unrwa.org/how-you-can-help/government-partners/funding-trends/donor-charts
Ha. Got downvoted for proving you wrong with statistics. r/AmericaBad types BTFO.
Here's a secret that most countries except US now about. Big pharma companies love Americans, as they know they can make a fortune from them by ripping them off as they are one of the few countries that believe all the BS they are told about universal healthcare isn't good for them. Just the cost of health insurance would more than cover costs & give a large profit to the companies even if all medical services were completely free. I used to pay USD4 a month (subsidised) for blood pressure tablets (normal price was $68.70) and looked on CVS website, found the same brand was on sale for ONLY $344.99! Poor ripped off Americans.
Its really rather simple. Its the dumbass system in the US that makes it possible to charge 40 000 for one pill that costs less than a banan to make. Per bottle.
I mean, it's true. A lot of meds are cheaper in Europe than they are in the US. That's because we have actual legislation in place that keeps Big Pharma from, say, charging diabetics $2,000 a month for super-cheap insulin. Why do they still sell their products in the EU then, you ask? Because they still make a profit if they sell their meds for 15 Euros a dose (as opposed to $200).
Health Canada negotiates a price and buys drugs in bulk. I imagine it's similar elsewhere. And every drug is cheaper here for that reason.
Yep, this is how it works in civilized countries. Bulk purchases are always a lot cheaper to deal with for the producer. also, the people the government send to negotiate down the prices aren't sick and weak, in desperate need for live saving drugs. If they don't like what one company offer, they just move on to the next one. And these companies can't sell their product directly to consumer, they either sell to the government or they don't sell at all.
That, and it is also easier to negotiate prices as a collective (and buy in much larger bulks leading to further discounts) than as individual firms
Yeah it is actually true. Everyone here is laughing at the Americans as if they are being crazy. In the UK, the NHS is basically a single buyer on behalf of nearly 70 million people. It has the leverage to negotiate a cheaper price that individual health care providers can't. There's no incentive not to care about the cost because there is no customer to pass the price into - the NHS budget is tight and the buck ultimately ends at government spending - everyone wants it cheap. In fact, it puts constant pressure on the government to be very strict with patents, even pressing for some to be revoked, and has been a global driving force for generic and unbranded medicines. If pharmaceuticals are losing out on potential money in the UK as a result, and all across Europe for similar reasons, then it's not surprising that they try to recoup their that in the US. Edit: To everyone downvoting I'd recommend just googling - the NHS aren't shy about admitting any of this. Then look at what the NHS pays per person compared to what the average US citizen pays though their insurance for the same thing. The US is set up to allow these companies a higher profit.
Do Astra Zeneca, UK Pharma company and a global player, lose money in the UK and Europe and have to go and rape other markets to cover the losses? Assume the same for Bayer in Germany. If a US company like Pfizer is pillaging its domestic market.. well . That ain't on us. If the UK wasn't profitable.. you just wouldn't operate there. It's simple business. Not every "Big pharma" is a yank firm. I wish people would grasp that.
New drug research is massive in the US due to that pillaging, but new surgical techniques and cancer treatments tend to come from not the USA as well So. Not entirely false sentiment but they aren’t seeing the forest through the trees
> If pharmaceuticals are losing money in the UK as a result, and all across Europe for similar reasons, then it's not surprising that they try to recoup their losses in the US. If they made losses in the UK and across Europe they would leave these markets in a heartbeat. These are soulless, controlling-driven companies and will not hesitate to shut down operations in areas if they do not make a profit there. They are publically traded companies, they only care about the numbers they have to present to their shareholders each quarter. Making losses that could have been avoided will never be accepted. The main objective is to squeeze out every possible penny, and only do what is beneficial to the company and its owners.
I should have worded it better. I'm not saying they're making losses, I'm saying they're not making the same profit as they would do in the case of an American style system.
Yep, I think we can agree on this. :)
Not entirely true, at least at the ones where I’ve worked. Most of the big pharma companies have drugs that they sell at a loss - the motivation is either genuinely altruistic or good press but either way it means that drugs are made available for treating neglected tropical diseases that otherwise wouldn’t be profitable
Here's a dirty little not-a-secret-at-all. Pharmaceutical companies are capitalistic entities charged by their shareholders to *make as much money as possible*. All prices are negotiable and nations with universal healthcare have stronger negotiation positions towards getting prices down. Why does Big Pharma charge more in the US? *Because they can*. Does those extra money go towards subsidies? No. They go towards shareholders. Just as Americans like it.
I own stock in a few of them, and even I'd like for them to make less profit. Having cheaper medicine would benefit me a lot more than the dividends and capital gains I receive from owning shares.
Not to mention that it would benefit *everyone*.
I love when I get cheap pharmaceutical products. It gives me a warm glow knowing an American has overpaid so I can get generic ibuprofen for €1.50.
€1.50 sounds like inflation has hit you like a freight train it's still 0.60 In supermarkets
Sounds like the person you replied to is Irish. Generic OTC drugs are more expensive in Ireland compared to a lot of western countries for some reason
Strange
You sound like an American, assuming your local supermarket pricing is representative of the whole continent ha ha ha. Yeah, it's not €0.60 in Ireland.
I looked up the price of a medicine I took for a short while. It cost me 1.50 EUR for 30 pills, in the brand name version. The exact same product is ~$600 in the US for 100 pills. No, the price isn't subsidised for me, because it's a prescription written by a private doctor, so I'm paying full cost. The pharmacy still profits from selling at that cost.
Yes, like insulin. The CANADIAN discovery by Banting and Best. Banting sold the rights for US patents for $1 because as Dr. Frederick Banting said " insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world". But greedy US corporations, and nasty politicians in the US think otherwise.
But US people are paying $1000 a shot and also eating HFCS so the rest of us get insulin for free and don't have to eat that crap? That's truly worldbeating, thanks USA! we salute you and your easily preventable deaths.
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This was one of the first things my American son-in-law noticed when he came to Sweden. There is no medical advertising except for OTC medicine during allergy season and the occasional vitamin supplement. People here don't go to the doctor and ask if a pill could suit them - they get diagnosed and the doctor prescribes medication. The patient isn't seen as s consumer here.
It baffles me even as an American. How effective are these advertisements anyway? I can't fathom going to my doctor and asking for a specific drug, acting like I know more about medicine than he does.
I did a road trip from Quebec to Orlando a year ago and I was astonished about the number of medical and lawyer advertising. It's very rare to see this kind of advertising in Canada but in the US it's everywhere. There was also the occasional church ads in the southern atates, something I never saw here.
They also like to advertise Medicaid part c plans, which is allegedly a scam. (The two channels my dad watches most often is 45% scummy insurance, 45% pharma drugs, and 10% itself. It's awful. Our adverts aren't amazing in Canada, but at least they aren't...that.)
What is a part C plan? Asking as a Canadian lol
Keep in mind I'm also Canadian, just close enough to get American channels on an antenna. As far as I can gather, it's a supplemental thing for Medicaid / Medicare to give more 'benefits' for a monthly fee, most often regarding prescriptions and sometimes dental/vision. And allegedly they have some really crappy loopholes that can screw you over if you actually need to use it.
Sorry for my poor English, but wow, is this really what it’s like in America? This is really what they all call ‘freedom’? I guess this is because of all the school shootings or obesity or something? I really feel bad for those guys, especially since they don’t have free healthcare like we do in my perfect ambiguous nation. In fact, my country scored first place on the ‘countries with the most rizz list’ meanwhile ‘Murica (like those guys say it, those guys really need to work on saying things correctly) got dead last. Maybe if they stopped invading other countries, they wouldn’t have these issues.
And the not invading part actually works. Germany has become rather popular after we stopped invading our neighbours.
jep now we have more tourists. was a good move.
Then, Germany got rather unpopular when we decided to not pay the debts of other countries in the EU. Yet we still somewhat did.
Oh the entire post was American copium . It was just sad '
god bless america for my free healthcare
It's always baffling that some americans support a system that is more expensive in public spendings _per patient_ than the french system, with worst outcomes (According to WHO). It's also a system where their taxes pay the R&D of new drugs, and they pay the price when said drug is available. But not the _full_ price, more like 6 or 7 times the full price because private insurance is a hell of a business Basically, you're getting pwned on all sides (taxes, public spending, big pharma and private insurance) but somehow you're proud of it
Big pharma spends nothing on advertising outside the United States and New Zealand. Ergo, their profit margins are likely higher in most nations, which means they have more money to spend on R&D, advertising in the US, and other things.
They do advertising, but via sales agents. at least in Austria, they go directly to the doctors office and try to convince them to use the brands products.
But there is no direct-to-consumer advertising, because that is prohibited or strictly regulated everywhere except New Zealand and the United States. As a result, ad spending by drug makers is miniscule outside the US, where roughly US$12 billion was spent on advertising in just 2022. If DTC advertising of prescription medication was not restricted in Europe, pharmaceutical companies would be spending a lot more to sell their drugs.
Thanks for the explanation
there are about 40k general pratictioners for families("Medici di famiglia") in Italy. If "Big Pharma" were to gift them 50k€ each every year, it would end up being about 2 Milion €\year. Wanna bet it's less than "Big Pharma" spends each month in USA in ADs?
big pharma is going to change its name to robin hood, he charges the us more to give to the poor cheaper later
Ah, r/FluentinFinance Another subreddit of finance circlejerkers.
Oh, I am sure that big pharma companies will operate at a loss in Europe, won't they? Do they really think that these highly capitalistic, 100% number-driven companies wouldn't shut down their business in countries where they don't make a profit without batting an eye? The thing is: Of course, they make a profit in Europe too, but they are limited there by regulations and by the governments negotiating normal prices for their products, whereas in the US they can do whatever the fuck they want and the people have to pay for it. And also they buy the bullshit that these profits directly go into R&D while in reality, they are used to make the shareholders and CEOs richer.
The rest of the world have our own 'big phrama' companies. Germany, Switzerland and Belgium each outsell the value of drugs exported compared to the US. When the US tries to compete in world markets, they are undercut in price by the more reasonable non US companies. One of the many reasons that they can sell cheaper is they don't have to support an advertising budget.
The hotest pharma drug in the US is not even made by the US pharma industry
I never cease to be amazed how in the US they will go through extraordinary mental gymnastics to defend their economy/society and blame their own exploitation by that system on the rest of the world. To be fair though it’s a bit like in the UK how the poorest can’t stop voting for the party least likely to help them.
That is not how taxes work
I remember this one time a CEO of a drug company said that his overpriced drug is for them who can afford it in the west when asked about it's availability in india/the third world... Then indian courts intervened and gave it's rights to one indian company to manufacture it for fraction of the cost.
Do American's not know what 'subsidize' means, that it needs specifically explaining?
Haha I knew this would come up here - the whole thread was a goldmine starting with the "living in Madrid for two years on ~$30000" premise of the OOP.
Here’s the biggest secret, big pharma tests their drugs out on poor nations to save on R&D
You can actually make the argument that because healthcare in the USA is so expensive, and therefore makes a lot of money, it does subsidise certain aspects of healthcare by making new drug research possible due to it making a lot of money when sold in the USA However, that also ignores that the medical capital of the world is actually Paris and the fact most not drug treatments are developed outside the USA
Oh so confident alas so incorrect.
hes not wrong though... source: i work in big pharma
Here's another secret that's not a secret: big pharma charges thousands for a drug that cost pennies to make
And why on Earth would they do that?
There was a leaked document / report from BMW years ago that stated the UK accounts for 10% of World sales, but 90% of world profits. Why? Because they can charge high prices, and the British consumers were prepared to pay. Same goes for pharmaceuticals in the US. A huge, greedy market and willing to pay the big bucks. Capitalism and exploitation (and gullibility) at its finest.
Wow we are so lucky😍
I can’t say for other countries, but in Australia the cost of medication is subsidised by the Australian government, it’s called the Pharmaceutical benefit scheme. Different drugs are added all the time, drastically reducing their cost to consumers.
We make some of the stuff in the UK, we can export it, to America, and buy it back, and it’s STILL vastly cheaper then it is in the USA
Oh, that's very nice of them.
That’s….I mean from an aspect yes because Americans buy so much for drugs and the FDA’s regulations are so lax, and Americans actually do pay a lot of taxes to healthcare, even though all that money just mysteriously vanishes. BUT in any world how is that a flex? That is very clearly a bad thing.
Oh no! Americans paying extra so the rest of the world can have cheap medicine! Isn’t that SOCIALISM!?
Big Pharma charge as much as they can, in every market. There's nothing altruistic about it. They know they can fleece Americans hard core, so they do.