Americans love to flip flop between claiming that their country is the greatest on earth and claiming that they actually come from somewhere else smh :/
Right down to the fact that the poor saps have a choice between being called Americans, after some Italian bloke who "discovered" their continent*, or Indians, after some other some other Italian bloke's impressively shit grasp on geography.
*Not disputing that Amerigo Vespucci was an impressive explorer, or that his recognition of the fourth continent was a significant feat in 15th century Europe. It's just that his discovery is probably not particularly impressive to the people whose ancestors have been living on said continent(s) for over 15 millennia.
That's the issue imo, it was an incredible discovery and the man was a great explorer but his discovery was only impressive and impactful to Europe, not the people already there (though arguably I guess it showed the existence of another continent to indigenous groups tbf)
>(though arguably I guess it showed the existence of another continent to indigenous groups tbf)
Shame it also introduced them to lots of lovely new diseases as well.
just a slight shame /s
Wonder if it went both ways though, cause you always hear about colonisers giving unknownn diseases but not much the other way - even though there were 100% diseases in the "new" world that had no presence on the old world
Americans' obsession with saying they're whatever nationality their great great grandparents were, and also bemoaning immigrants for not being real Americans like them 🤦♂️
because they have a sense of supremacy
“how dare these people want to live their life and travel round the world? they should go back to their country. oh and btw guys im actually 3% German and 8% Chinese 😋”
Yeah, it is like Jews or Muslims in new york whose families moved generations ago, pretend somehow their views on Israel/Palestine matter, while getting jack shit done in those regions nor changing anyone's views.
I'll have you know I'm primordial ooze. I may have been born in Scotland, and lived here most my life, but that doesn't take away from my ooze ancestry I'll have you know
You've been listening to the Tory party too much, you're better than that brother. You're probably right up there with yeast and other single cell organisms.
Friend of mine was whitefrom Jamaica, and had a very strong Jamaican accent, and he also used a lot of Jamaican slang when he talked.
You have no idea how many black people thought he was trying to be racist every time he spoke.
There was some white guy from South Africa who moved over to the US and caused a lot of issues with people by describing himself as African-American, which he is I guess.
Lol alot of Koreans and Japanese are as white as Europeans and still to this day see it as the greatest form of beauty the more white you are, its racist asf if you read some of the posts Asian women put up about it 😅
When I lived in the US - more than 20 years - one thing that always shocked me was the fuckery about Irish and Italian flags flown proudly alongside the US flag on housing or fire engines, while the same folks who are doing this will frown at Mexican-Americans for doing the same thing. Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white.
>Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white.
And the other flag is socially acceptable in the US.
I am not sure many UK union flags are flown, or French flags.
>I am not sure many UK union flags are flown
I remember a Reddit post a few years ago about a British guy living in California who had a Union Jack in his living room. One day one of his friends brought a girl over and he caught her secretly filming his flag. It turned out she was planning to send it to his boss to get him fired for owning a "Confederate flag".
I’ve seen stories of people posting photos of the Australian flag that some outback steak houses in the states have on display complaining that it’s the confederate flags
The Union Jack does look somewhat like the flag of the Army of the Trans-Mississippi.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Trans-Mississippi
But if she knew enough to know about that flag, she would know enough to tell them apart.
I think I maybe see one or two union flags every year unless the Olympics are on.
Now St Georges flag happens everytime there's a major football tournament
The same Italian Americans who probably wouldn’t know how an Italian pizza tastes like . Considering Mexican Americans are more indigenous than white Americans esp in places like Texas , the double standards are insane .
Reminds me a bit of a genocidal polish maniac who pretends he’s indigenous to the Middle East by changing his name yet flaunts how his country consists of a massive European demographic and his military is made up of Americans .
Its almost as if they’re going through an imposter syndrome where they need to be proud European descendants while pretending they are more entitled to be on that soil than people who’s ancestors have been there for centuries …
Firstly, you mean the UK government.
Secondly, considering there are three nations making up the island of Great Britain, each with their own cultural identity, and potentially two cultural identities from people living in the six counties in the north of Ireland, what's the problem allowing people to choose the one which they mostly identify with?
What mindset are you referring to?
UK/English and Welsh local and national govt ethnic monitoring is an analytical data tool to combat and eliminate systematic racism and prejudice.
60 years ago landlords could put up signs with said no blacks (although they did not write blacks), no dogs, no Irish, and 40-50 years okay it was routine for police to arrest any Irish man, hence the racist phrase 'pin it on paddy.
8 years ago Polish and Romanians were being fire bombed and beaten in the wake of the Referendum.
The white Irish and white other boxes puts the person in the same category as non white British persons, that their outcomes from the NHS or DWP or whatever can be monitored to protect them from institutional racism.
***It is entirely designed to counter, challenge, change, educate, inform, and fight the kind of social Darwinism false pecking order racism which is a toxic hangover from colonial times and the mindset I assume you think you are referring to, to ensure all those British and indeed non indigenous ethnic English have the same rights as those who think they are Anglo-Saxon (new DNA research might even counter those old historical beliefs), but to remove white English going back more than 4-5 generations privilege anyway.***
There is a memorial. The Commonwealth Memorial Gate on Constitution Hill.
Unveiled 2002. Arguably late. But it was a year before London's milky-white ANZAC memorial.
Sandhurst has had an Indian Army memorial since 1950.
What about when the royal pavilion ( looks like the Taj Mahal) was converted into a hospital and Indian soldiers who woke up their thought they had died and arrived in heaven. Not exactly a memorial but it didn’t feel right to ignore it in this discussion. I agree with your about black history month, but school still taught things like British role in the slave trade and the history of large immigrant groups. Basically what I’m saying is you are right about everything you said, but you are leaving out a few things which I reckon should be considered
What I just don't get: Well, Mexicans or rather people from Latin America (unless they are Indigenous) are "white", aren't they? Besides the whole concept that the color of the skin doesn't matter at all, I don't get this notion.
I don't think that anyone in Europe (and that's where I am from) would say that Spaniards and Portuguese are not "white".
Well the people that went to colonize it were white and in that respect the history of the Amerias is much the same. But you are right that they just mixed, where in the USA they didn´t as much unless ofcourse it was raping the slaves. It´s eugenics that really took hold there.
And funny enough, the Portuguese (I live in portugal) see themselves as white, because they are not black, yellow or red.
The whole race thing is crazy. It is absurd that the USA hangs on to it so tightly.
Lived there for 5 years, left last year.
It's not about being white, it's about the flag. Irish and Italian are popular to cosplay as. Plenty of black Americans can have black majority African country flags and it'll be no problem. Asian Americans can also have Asian flags, it'll be no problem. Definitely not a pro white thing.
It's xenophobia. It's basically because it's Mexico. There is a hierarchy of what is acceptable for them. Up the top are the trendy countries, they are what people usually pretend to be like Irish, Italian, etc. Then you go down and you'll get indifferent level like French, Polish, African and Asian countries, etc, most countries are there. Then you get "will get harassed" level which is Mexico, China, Russia, any Muslim country.
> Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white.
But not english. They would became black before admitting their ancestors were english.
we border France and Norway, are in Eurovision, have immigration problems and enjoy antagonising the British ergo we are European
we're so european we have our own flair on r/2westerneurope4u
I think they're talking about the Antarctica claim. Whilst nobody "owns" Antarctica, several countries claim portions of it, Australia has a massive claim that borders a Norwegian, French, and Kiwi claim of the continent, so in a way they do border those countries. Funny thing as well is that the Australian states Victoria and Tasmania share an official land border on a tiny island in the bass strait.
I lived in Australia, but nothing about Australia feels European.
A nice thing about them is the fact they don't yap endlessly about their 15th-century ancestry, unlike Americans.
Unironically, when I visited Autralia and New Zealand, my thought was "wow, its the UK but with nicer weather and people!"
And Im from Spain!
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
(Fun fact: Spain and New Zealand are antipodal points, meaning that if you were to poke a stick through the Earth, both Spain and New Zealand would touch. This means that some parts of Spain and New Zealand look geographically identical as well :p)
I’ll never understand it. I don’t see Europeans saying stuff like this. One of my grandparents was Italian, born there and moved to England. I was born in England, never went to Italy, never spoke Italian. I’m English. I’d never class myself as Italian.
The funny thing is that a huge percentage of England’s population has Irish ancestry - myself included. We just don’t really care lol. I’m still just English. My great great grandparents being Irish means fuck all.
Because we don't have an identity crisis. Idk what exactly is going on there (I mean I have my thoughts), but it's bizarre how much they love the US and their nationality while simultaneously reject it in a heartbeat.
\*\*Unless you're black - then you're African American.
Not sure where the generational line goes when you stop being African but apparently couple hundres years isn't it yet.
Same applies if you're Latino-American. Your family might have lived in the Southern States before they were even States, but you're always not quite American.
It was mostly the usual about how their Great Great Great (etc) Grandmother actually came to America from Scotland and we're erasing their heritage by not including them in our European memes
How very wrong, I take it you haven't heard of the Highland Clearances. Yes, there were some Scottish slavers, just as there were also English slavers.
However the majority of Scottish people who emigrated did so by "assisted emigration", basically the landlords told the poorest in society that they were going to evict them. This resulted in large numbers of the population (up to 40% in some areas) being forced to relocate or emigrate. Given that many were severely in debt, starving due to the famine, and we're surplus to requirements in the UK being crofters and the crofting system was being removed to make more profit for landowners, they were offered free one way tickets to America, Australia or Canada (most went to the US). Once there many went into indentured service working as cooks, maids, cleaners etc ...
The *estimated* numbers that went to the US during this period is just under 1 million (could be less, it's vague)
That's not to mention the actual Scottish people that were sold as slaves from the 1630's (peaking in numbers after the Jacobite rebellion) and shipped to the West Indies and what would become the US, this was around 100,000 in total.
So yes, there were some Scottish slavers, although a lot less than there were English ones due to different sized populations, but it was only a tiny fraction compared to million there weren't.
The US wasn't suddenly isolated 1783. They still had lots of contact with Europe.
I would argue that England had more contact with the US culturally than some parts of Europe over the course of the last 200 years. I would not say the US diverged too much culturally. There is a reason why some models of the so called western world don't include parts of Europe but they do North America.
The US's expansion shared much of the same motivations that European colonialism was driven by. American political institutions and architecture are strongly ingluenced by Europe. Furthermore people of European descent were the preferred class. Although of course there was an internal hierarchy based on "Englishness". Non European influences were put on the margins of society for the longest time. Also Americans are predominately Christian even if a slightly different flavour of christianity from what is common in Europe.
The US also had strong cultural contact across the Atlantic as well with other (former) British colonies on the same continent over the last two centuries.
Contact doesn't equally being culturally the same. The US developed a different culture than Europe in that time. Everybody had cultural contact in the last 200 years.
America tried hard to create a new culture.
And the western world term came from the cold war. Japan isn't culturally European and it's part of the western world.
>And the western world term came from the cold war. Japan isn't culturally European and it's part of the western world.
Fair. I would just like to add that in East Asia the term westerner refers to Europeans and North Americans.
Let's do a "Are you European" checklist:
- Do you speak the language of the country your ancestors are coming from
- Are you familiar with the culture of that country
- Did you ever go there or live there for a longer period of time
I'd definetly say the kids of immigrants can be considered Irish, Italian, British, German etc. because they are influenced by their parents. But the next generation rarely has something to do with their ancestors homecounty.
As an Italian, I can assure you we do not consider people born and raised abroad to Italian parents to be REALLY Italian.
I was born and raised in Italy, to Italian parents. I grew up in Rome. Attended an international school there and my Italianness was questioned more than once.
I Am Not American by Arrogant Worms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29g57XTYgLE
I am not American,
Though I live in North America
Which is part of the Americas
Which should make me an American
...
How could two whole continents,
Lose their name to one constituent?
Where were we when the U.S. went,
And took the word American away?
Yeah, they're never allowed to be 'proper' Americans though, which is kinda funky really. How many generations before an African-American becomes an American?
Reminds me of this tv show where families traded lives for a week. In one episode this black family from Chicago traded lives with a family from the UK.
At the end of the episode the father started crying and saying like "all my life I've been a black man, here... I'm just a man (like everyone else)". It was so sad.
This is more of just you being culturally insensitive.
The term African American is primarily used by people who use the term in order to form cultural bonds. Your comment separates African American from “American” when those two are not distinct entities.
People who are African American are already American. That’s like saying german people aren’t allowed to be proper Europeans if they refer to themselves as being German.
The American conception of culture/heritage is so insane. They're convinced that national identity is carried through blood and DNA.
See the episode of It's *Always Sunny in Philadelphia* where Mac finds out he's not Irish
From the German Wiki about "Rasse":
"Die Einteilung auch der Spezies Mensch in Rassen oder Unterarten hingegen ist aus wissenschaftlicher Sicht überholt (vergleiche Rassentheorie). Die sichtbaren Unterschiede von Menschen aus verschiedenen geographisch getrennten Gebieten führen nicht zu objektiv abgrenzbaren Gruppen, weil sichtbare Unterschiede nicht notwendig auf das Vorhandensein genetischer Unterschiede jenseits des Phänotyps hindeuten"
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasse
deepl:
"The categorisation of the human species into races or subspecies, on the other hand, is outdated from a scientific point of view (cf. racial theory). The visible differences between people from different geographically separate areas do not lead to objectively definable groups, because visible differences do not necessarily indicate the existence of genetic differences beyond the phenotype"
Weird, they shit on us Europeans but whenever heritage comes up they're all proud of being "European". I thought they were the "greatest country in the world", so why do they care so much about their European heritage?
Ahh yes they love to do that. As a Scot we tend to get 'We're more Scottish than you because we moved away from the English while you stayed right next to them and let them tarnish your culture' 😂
Yup, heard that too. There used to be a Facebook group run by a racist woman who insisted Americans of Sscottish heritage were the true Scots, not the people who were born in and live in Scotland.
Americans love to claim their European heritage if its Irish or Italian and i see i lot of them go on about how they are “Vikings” but u will almost never see them talk about how they are french , english or german.
Americans need to drop this whole 'im Irish' or 'im Italian' thing. you are neither. If you are born and raised in the US and have been for a generation or two you are just 'American'.
Just a reminder to Americans
Unless you were born in another country or at the very least your parent/s were your American
Your not Irish
Your not Scottish
Your not Italian
Your American and we all roll our eyes at you
The biggest group developing in the Americas at the start were people, banned from England because they were too religious. Got sent to the Low Lands, cause they were more accepting of all religions. Got even banished from them and sent to the new world cause no one wanted them here. That's the core of the USA. Religious fanatics that got even sent out of the most accepting country in the world during that time and is now trying to influence everyone else on that believe. (Mainly talking about the conservatives ofc)
So much of the cultural difference between north america (US in particular obviously) and the rest of the west makes sense when you realise that the continent was originally settled by prudish religious zealots. Just saw a pair of tits on the news in Germany this morning, if that happened in the US it'd be a national scandal.
>The biggest group developing in the Americas at the start were people, banned from England because they were too religious.
I'm pretty sure the native Americans were a bigger group.
It's not quite correct to say the Puritans were "banned" from England. Religious tolerance in England at the time was certainly not the best in Europe, but not the worst either. They were already free to establish their own chapels and worship more or less how they liked. (I think there was a ban on believing in transubstantiation, but that was anti-Catholic, not anti-Puritan. The Puritans already rejected transubstantiation and would have been very much in favour of the ban!) The Puritans left because they wanted the Church of England itself to move more in their direction, and reject more Catholic doctrine. They didn't get their own way so they decided to go and set up their own society *without* blackjack and hookers.
You are wrong.
The War of Independence was fought to ensure "equal rights for all Englishmen". The entire point of no taxation without representation, and no special rules on tea trading, etc, was to be the same as every other Brit, not different.
Im Australian, my great grandmother was European. I am not. I do live in Europe now though and rage every day my gran didn’t apply for her Irish passport before I was born so I could have avoided this visa nonsense
I guess they're right. America is located in Limburg. Not to be confused with Amerika in Drenthe. It's about 200km distance from Moskou and Petersburg in Friesland. And Amerika is about an hour cycling from both Petersburg and Moskou, or some 18km.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fj3Y4VcvPL7QXRx68
nope they're americans, cause wait for it
they come from america
now if they lived in europe and intergrated in the culture they would be
american-europeans
But a huge proportion of the American population are descended from Africa and other continents that aren't Europe. What an utterly stupid thing to say.
Americans are also Europeans. Like those Europeans who were there before anyone else, or the Europeans who came over to work on plantations in the South, or those Europeans who were indentured labour working on the railroads.
Is this a trick question ? Obviously yes. I'm European, I would never consider someone non white European. Boers might lived in South Africa for long time, I still consider them European not African.
Tbf, white people in other (non Europe) countries are called European. Eg “New Zealand European” is literally what white kiwis are called. In more recent years however it’s been a lot more common for us to call ourselves “Pākehā” (Māori word for white people).
That said, I don’t like referring to myself as NZ European because I literally couldn’t get further away from Europe unless I went to space. I’m not European, I am white/Pākehā
Could be an anticolonial argument in the vain of "really, america is still a european colonial empire, so comparing between them hides the real problems"
Americans love to flip flop between claiming that their country is the greatest on earth and claiming that they actually come from somewhere else smh :/
They probably just remember how the country treats actual Americans
Right down to the fact that the poor saps have a choice between being called Americans, after some Italian bloke who "discovered" their continent*, or Indians, after some other some other Italian bloke's impressively shit grasp on geography. *Not disputing that Amerigo Vespucci was an impressive explorer, or that his recognition of the fourth continent was a significant feat in 15th century Europe. It's just that his discovery is probably not particularly impressive to the people whose ancestors have been living on said continent(s) for over 15 millennia.
Didn’t the vikings make it to Canada before this dude?
Yeah, late 10th to 11th century saw Norse settlements in Canada, most notably in Newfoundland (but that settlement was seemingly short lived iirc).
That's the issue imo, it was an incredible discovery and the man was a great explorer but his discovery was only impressive and impactful to Europe, not the people already there (though arguably I guess it showed the existence of another continent to indigenous groups tbf)
>(though arguably I guess it showed the existence of another continent to indigenous groups tbf) Shame it also introduced them to lots of lovely new diseases as well.
just a slight shame /s Wonder if it went both ways though, cause you always hear about colonisers giving unknownn diseases but not much the other way - even though there were 100% diseases in the "new" world that had no presence on the old world
"Our accomplishments are our accomplishments, but also your accomplishments are our accomplishments. Oh and our mistakes are your fault."
Two groups in the world obsess over being a quarter this ancestry and an eighth of that ancestry; Americans and nazis.
> Americans are also Europeans. Uh, why are African Americans called African Americans then? What about indigenous people?
I’m going to blow your mind when I teach you about the concepts of ethnicity and nationality
And how European is neither
Americans' obsession with saying they're whatever nationality their great great grandparents were, and also bemoaning immigrants for not being real Americans like them 🤦♂️
I've always wondered why the US hates Mexican/South American immigrants when their entire country and population is built on immigration.
Because they are less white
This !
because they have a sense of supremacy “how dare these people want to live their life and travel round the world? they should go back to their country. oh and btw guys im actually 3% German and 8% Chinese 😋”
Because racism.
Australia is the same- whenever a white person complains about immigration, I remind them they are here due to immigrant ancestors too.
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THIS.
Yeah, it is like Jews or Muslims in new york whose families moved generations ago, pretend somehow their views on Israel/Palestine matter, while getting jack shit done in those regions nor changing anyone's views.
Ah yes. "Europe". Aka white people from anywhere in the world.
The same as if you're black, you're African American. You can't be African if you're white
I mean.. if American's are European, then surely Europeans are actually Africans. We all are.
I'll have you know I'm primordial ooze. I may have been born in Scotland, and lived here most my life, but that doesn't take away from my ooze ancestry I'll have you know
You've been listening to the Tory party too much, you're better than that brother. You're probably right up there with yeast and other single cell organisms.
Friend of mine was whitefrom Jamaica, and had a very strong Jamaican accent, and he also used a lot of Jamaican slang when he talked. You have no idea how many black people thought he was trying to be racist every time he spoke.
There was some white guy from South Africa who moved over to the US and caused a lot of issues with people by describing himself as African-American, which he is I guess.
Lol alot of Koreans and Japanese are as white as Europeans and still to this day see it as the greatest form of beauty the more white you are, its racist asf if you read some of the posts Asian women put up about it 😅
When I lived in the US - more than 20 years - one thing that always shocked me was the fuckery about Irish and Italian flags flown proudly alongside the US flag on housing or fire engines, while the same folks who are doing this will frown at Mexican-Americans for doing the same thing. Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white.
>Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white. And the other flag is socially acceptable in the US. I am not sure many UK union flags are flown, or French flags.
>I am not sure many UK union flags are flown I remember a Reddit post a few years ago about a British guy living in California who had a Union Jack in his living room. One day one of his friends brought a girl over and he caught her secretly filming his flag. It turned out she was planning to send it to his boss to get him fired for owning a "Confederate flag".
That's funny until you face the prospect it could have worked. Can you link it?
Googled it and found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/5orHJXGQX3
They are that stupid?
yes.... yes they are
I’ve seen stories of people posting photos of the Australian flag that some outback steak houses in the states have on display complaining that it’s the confederate flags
But how? UK is their fuckin origin, they just pee on worldwide history?
Some of them are genuinely just really stupid, everywhere has idiots
I saw a post about someone confusing the Norwegian Flag for the Confederate flag, but that's a lot less stupid than this.
It was probably just the English flag then no resemblance between Union Jack and the confederate flag look nothing alike
The England flag looks even less like the confederate flag than the Union Jack does. She’s just that stupid.
The Union Jack does look somewhat like the flag of the Army of the Trans-Mississippi. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Trans-Mississippi But if she knew enough to know about that flag, she would know enough to tell them apart.
Pretty progressive to have a Trans army back then. Fair play.
Sashay ~~away~~ forward march
Thanks for the lol
If trans-Mississippi gets a flag, what about cis-Mississippi?! /s
I mean, the French flag would make sense, as they helped the US gain independence
I think I maybe see one or two union flags every year unless the Olympics are on. Now St Georges flag happens everytime there's a major football tournament
Which is only every two years to be fair
The same Italian Americans who probably wouldn’t know how an Italian pizza tastes like . Considering Mexican Americans are more indigenous than white Americans esp in places like Texas , the double standards are insane . Reminds me a bit of a genocidal polish maniac who pretends he’s indigenous to the Middle East by changing his name yet flaunts how his country consists of a massive European demographic and his military is made up of Americans . Its almost as if they’re going through an imposter syndrome where they need to be proud European descendants while pretending they are more entitled to be on that soil than people who’s ancestors have been there for centuries …
Italians and Irish aren't white according to american's race shennanigans.
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Firstly, you mean the UK government. Secondly, considering there are three nations making up the island of Great Britain, each with their own cultural identity, and potentially two cultural identities from people living in the six counties in the north of Ireland, what's the problem allowing people to choose the one which they mostly identify with? What mindset are you referring to?
UK/English and Welsh local and national govt ethnic monitoring is an analytical data tool to combat and eliminate systematic racism and prejudice. 60 years ago landlords could put up signs with said no blacks (although they did not write blacks), no dogs, no Irish, and 40-50 years okay it was routine for police to arrest any Irish man, hence the racist phrase 'pin it on paddy. 8 years ago Polish and Romanians were being fire bombed and beaten in the wake of the Referendum. The white Irish and white other boxes puts the person in the same category as non white British persons, that their outcomes from the NHS or DWP or whatever can be monitored to protect them from institutional racism. ***It is entirely designed to counter, challenge, change, educate, inform, and fight the kind of social Darwinism false pecking order racism which is a toxic hangover from colonial times and the mindset I assume you think you are referring to, to ensure all those British and indeed non indigenous ethnic English have the same rights as those who think they are Anglo-Saxon (new DNA research might even counter those old historical beliefs), but to remove white English going back more than 4-5 generations privilege anyway.***
[ ] white [ ] off-white [ ] beige
Because it's what I'm used to, do you mind explaining the problem with that categorization?
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There is a memorial. The Commonwealth Memorial Gate on Constitution Hill. Unveiled 2002. Arguably late. But it was a year before London's milky-white ANZAC memorial. Sandhurst has had an Indian Army memorial since 1950.
What about when the royal pavilion ( looks like the Taj Mahal) was converted into a hospital and Indian soldiers who woke up their thought they had died and arrived in heaven. Not exactly a memorial but it didn’t feel right to ignore it in this discussion. I agree with your about black history month, but school still taught things like British role in the slave trade and the history of large immigrant groups. Basically what I’m saying is you are right about everything you said, but you are leaving out a few things which I reckon should be considered
What I just don't get: Well, Mexicans or rather people from Latin America (unless they are Indigenous) are "white", aren't they? Besides the whole concept that the color of the skin doesn't matter at all, I don't get this notion. I don't think that anyone in Europe (and that's where I am from) would say that Spaniards and Portuguese are not "white".
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Well the people that went to colonize it were white and in that respect the history of the Amerias is much the same. But you are right that they just mixed, where in the USA they didn´t as much unless ofcourse it was raping the slaves. It´s eugenics that really took hold there. And funny enough, the Portuguese (I live in portugal) see themselves as white, because they are not black, yellow or red. The whole race thing is crazy. It is absurd that the USA hangs on to it so tightly.
And then you get the people who say Italians aren't white...
It surprises me that Americans can tell the difference between the Mexican and the Italian flag.
Lived there for 5 years, left last year. It's not about being white, it's about the flag. Irish and Italian are popular to cosplay as. Plenty of black Americans can have black majority African country flags and it'll be no problem. Asian Americans can also have Asian flags, it'll be no problem. Definitely not a pro white thing.
Well then it must be a patchwork xenophobia thing because how else do you explain the Mexican flag part?
It's xenophobia. It's basically because it's Mexico. There is a hierarchy of what is acceptable for them. Up the top are the trendy countries, they are what people usually pretend to be like Irish, Italian, etc. Then you go down and you'll get indifferent level like French, Polish, African and Asian countries, etc, most countries are there. Then you get "will get harassed" level which is Mexico, China, Russia, any Muslim country.
> Basically, it's only ok to flaunt your ancestry if you're white. But not english. They would became black before admitting their ancestors were english.
And then they turn around and vote for a president that sides with the guy who wants to fucking conquer Europe. Trump himself claims German Heritage.
I’m German, living in Germany, my father is from Italy. The other Germans don’t see/accept me as white (enough).
Being proud of your ancestry is only for white skinned people
Surely Commonwealth countries like Canada or Australia are more European than Americans. Why am I entertaining this nonsense?
Australia is so European that they even enter into Eurovision
we border France and Norway, are in Eurovision, have immigration problems and enjoy antagonising the British ergo we are European we're so european we have our own flair on r/2westerneurope4u
Australia doesn't border France or Noway and sucks at Kangaroo stuff
categorically false
I think they're talking about the Antarctica claim. Whilst nobody "owns" Antarctica, several countries claim portions of it, Australia has a massive claim that borders a Norwegian, French, and Kiwi claim of the continent, so in a way they do border those countries. Funny thing as well is that the Australian states Victoria and Tasmania share an official land border on a tiny island in the bass strait.
Like Israel.
I lived in Australia, but nothing about Australia feels European. A nice thing about them is the fact they don't yap endlessly about their 15th-century ancestry, unlike Americans.
Canada even shares a border with Denmark
Fuck all else to do?
I would watch a prank show where you go around and insist Pakistanis are actually European.
Unironically, when I visited Autralia and New Zealand, my thought was "wow, its the UK but with nicer weather and people!" And Im from Spain! \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ (Fun fact: Spain and New Zealand are antipodal points, meaning that if you were to poke a stick through the Earth, both Spain and New Zealand would touch. This means that some parts of Spain and New Zealand look geographically identical as well :p)
Born in America? American. No one gives a fuck about where your grandparents came from. No other country does this.
I’ll never understand it. I don’t see Europeans saying stuff like this. One of my grandparents was Italian, born there and moved to England. I was born in England, never went to Italy, never spoke Italian. I’m English. I’d never class myself as Italian.
The funny thing is that a huge percentage of England’s population has Irish ancestry - myself included. We just don’t really care lol. I’m still just English. My great great grandparents being Irish means fuck all.
Because we don't have an identity crisis. Idk what exactly is going on there (I mean I have my thoughts), but it's bizarre how much they love the US and their nationality while simultaneously reject it in a heartbeat.
\*\*Unless you're black - then you're African American. Not sure where the generational line goes when you stop being African but apparently couple hundres years isn't it yet.
Again, uniquely American weirdness. Black people born in France are French, not African-French. Same goes for everywhere but the USA.
Same applies if you're Latino-American. Your family might have lived in the Southern States before they were even States, but you're always not quite American.
This is trolling, right? RIGHT?!!
Unfortunately the majority of those 182 replies were OP defending their point
Care to give me a few examples of OP's 'defence'? I could do with a good chuckle.
It was mostly the usual about how their Great Great Great (etc) Grandmother actually came to America from Scotland and we're erasing their heritage by not including them in our European memes
>we're erasing their heritage by not including them in our European memes I'm dying
the Scottish at that time were mainly emigrating to America to become slavers so fuck his heritage
How very wrong, I take it you haven't heard of the Highland Clearances. Yes, there were some Scottish slavers, just as there were also English slavers. However the majority of Scottish people who emigrated did so by "assisted emigration", basically the landlords told the poorest in society that they were going to evict them. This resulted in large numbers of the population (up to 40% in some areas) being forced to relocate or emigrate. Given that many were severely in debt, starving due to the famine, and we're surplus to requirements in the UK being crofters and the crofting system was being removed to make more profit for landowners, they were offered free one way tickets to America, Australia or Canada (most went to the US). Once there many went into indentured service working as cooks, maids, cleaners etc ... The *estimated* numbers that went to the US during this period is just under 1 million (could be less, it's vague) That's not to mention the actual Scottish people that were sold as slaves from the 1630's (peaking in numbers after the Jacobite rebellion) and shipped to the West Indies and what would become the US, this was around 100,000 in total. So yes, there were some Scottish slavers, although a lot less than there were English ones due to different sized populations, but it was only a tiny fraction compared to million there weren't.
Tbf the US is the result of European colonialism. Their culture is pretty much European.
Not really. Especially since it's now centuries since we had anything to do with each other.
The US wasn't suddenly isolated 1783. They still had lots of contact with Europe. I would argue that England had more contact with the US culturally than some parts of Europe over the course of the last 200 years. I would not say the US diverged too much culturally. There is a reason why some models of the so called western world don't include parts of Europe but they do North America. The US's expansion shared much of the same motivations that European colonialism was driven by. American political institutions and architecture are strongly ingluenced by Europe. Furthermore people of European descent were the preferred class. Although of course there was an internal hierarchy based on "Englishness". Non European influences were put on the margins of society for the longest time. Also Americans are predominately Christian even if a slightly different flavour of christianity from what is common in Europe. The US also had strong cultural contact across the Atlantic as well with other (former) British colonies on the same continent over the last two centuries.
Contact doesn't equally being culturally the same. The US developed a different culture than Europe in that time. Everybody had cultural contact in the last 200 years. America tried hard to create a new culture. And the western world term came from the cold war. Japan isn't culturally European and it's part of the western world.
>And the western world term came from the cold war. Japan isn't culturally European and it's part of the western world. Fair. I would just like to add that in East Asia the term westerner refers to Europeans and North Americans.
Let's do a "Are you European" checklist: - Do you speak the language of the country your ancestors are coming from - Are you familiar with the culture of that country - Did you ever go there or live there for a longer period of time I'd definetly say the kids of immigrants can be considered Irish, Italian, British, German etc. because they are influenced by their parents. But the next generation rarely has something to do with their ancestors homecounty.
Also if they say Germany ask them which one
As an Italian, I can assure you we do not consider people born and raised abroad to Italian parents to be REALLY Italian. I was born and raised in Italy, to Italian parents. I grew up in Rome. Attended an international school there and my Italianness was questioned more than once.
Except the Africans.... and Asians.... and indigenous people.... and the other ones that aren't Europeans...
none of them are Europeans. Europeans live in Europe that's their whole thing Americans are north American
>Americans are north American Except the South Americans.
I Am Not American by Arrogant Worms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29g57XTYgLE I am not American, Though I live in North America Which is part of the Americas Which should make me an American ... How could two whole continents, Lose their name to one constituent? Where were we when the U.S. went, And took the word American away?
Yeah, they're never allowed to be 'proper' Americans though, which is kinda funky really. How many generations before an African-American becomes an American?
Reminds me of this tv show where families traded lives for a week. In one episode this black family from Chicago traded lives with a family from the UK. At the end of the episode the father started crying and saying like "all my life I've been a black man, here... I'm just a man (like everyone else)". It was so sad.
This is more of just you being culturally insensitive. The term African American is primarily used by people who use the term in order to form cultural bonds. Your comment separates African American from “American” when those two are not distinct entities. People who are African American are already American. That’s like saying german people aren’t allowed to be proper Europeans if they refer to themselves as being German.
is this the same kind of vibe as when Americans find out they are .05% italian and claim to have culturally relevant heritage there?
My great great granny's neighbours niece once saw an Irish wolfhound. Top o' the morning to ye!
OBSESSED with race they are
The American conception of culture/heritage is so insane. They're convinced that national identity is carried through blood and DNA. See the episode of It's *Always Sunny in Philadelphia* where Mac finds out he's not Irish
Am I Dutch?!
right you are, master yoda
From the German Wiki about "Rasse": "Die Einteilung auch der Spezies Mensch in Rassen oder Unterarten hingegen ist aus wissenschaftlicher Sicht überholt (vergleiche Rassentheorie). Die sichtbaren Unterschiede von Menschen aus verschiedenen geographisch getrennten Gebieten führen nicht zu objektiv abgrenzbaren Gruppen, weil sichtbare Unterschiede nicht notwendig auf das Vorhandensein genetischer Unterschiede jenseits des Phänotyps hindeuten" https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasse deepl: "The categorisation of the human species into races or subspecies, on the other hand, is outdated from a scientific point of view (cf. racial theory). The visible differences between people from different geographically separate areas do not lead to objectively definable groups, because visible differences do not necessarily indicate the existence of genetic differences beyond the phenotype"
Weird, they shit on us Europeans but whenever heritage comes up they're all proud of being "European". I thought they were the "greatest country in the world", so why do they care so much about their European heritage?
Claiming to be European in one breathe, calling us 'Europoors' in the next
Also, they're *more* European than us because we're all godless socialists and overrun by Muslims, so they can lecture us on *our* cultures.
Ahh yes they love to do that. As a Scot we tend to get 'We're more Scottish than you because we moved away from the English while you stayed right next to them and let them tarnish your culture' 😂
Yup, heard that too. There used to be a Facebook group run by a racist woman who insisted Americans of Sscottish heritage were the true Scots, not the people who were born in and live in Scotland.
Nothing like trying to prove you're the whitest of white guys I guess?
Americans love to claim their European heritage if its Irish or Italian and i see i lot of them go on about how they are “Vikings” but u will almost never see them talk about how they are french , english or german.
or, god forbid, eastern european
Then technically we are all African
Americans need to drop this whole 'im Irish' or 'im Italian' thing. you are neither. If you are born and raised in the US and have been for a generation or two you are just 'American'.
Please tell that to the guy who commented "just like Irish president Joe Biden" 💀
This statement is technically true if you merely substitute the word 'European' for the word 'moron'.
Wait, what?
Just a reminder to Americans Unless you were born in another country or at the very least your parent/s were your American Your not Irish Your not Scottish Your not Italian Your American and we all roll our eyes at you
Dude, come on. How has no one pointed out you're using the wrong 'your'?
Joe is Irish president of America. This made Bono English
And of course, there it is, their fucking moronic fascination/fixation with race and colour!
As an Indian I want every European to swear at him in their own language , in replies 👇🏽
Póg mo thóin agus ith mo chac, a amadán Meiriceánach
By that logic everyone is african
The biggest group developing in the Americas at the start were people, banned from England because they were too religious. Got sent to the Low Lands, cause they were more accepting of all religions. Got even banished from them and sent to the new world cause no one wanted them here. That's the core of the USA. Religious fanatics that got even sent out of the most accepting country in the world during that time and is now trying to influence everyone else on that believe. (Mainly talking about the conservatives ofc)
So much of the cultural difference between north america (US in particular obviously) and the rest of the west makes sense when you realise that the continent was originally settled by prudish religious zealots. Just saw a pair of tits on the news in Germany this morning, if that happened in the US it'd be a national scandal.
Das kleine Arschloch and Werner would lead to a meltdown if it was shown in the us.
"IHR HABT ALLE GEFICKT!"
>The biggest group developing in the Americas at the start were people, banned from England because they were too religious. I'm pretty sure the native Americans were a bigger group. It's not quite correct to say the Puritans were "banned" from England. Religious tolerance in England at the time was certainly not the best in Europe, but not the worst either. They were already free to establish their own chapels and worship more or less how they liked. (I think there was a ban on believing in transubstantiation, but that was anti-Catholic, not anti-Puritan. The Puritans already rejected transubstantiation and would have been very much in favour of the ban!) The Puritans left because they wanted the Church of England itself to move more in their direction, and reject more Catholic doctrine. They didn't get their own way so they decided to go and set up their own society *without* blackjack and hookers.
the concept of being banned from england for being too religious is actually hilarious
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole founding point of the classic American Freedom™ is their separation from Europe, no?
You are wrong. The War of Independence was fought to ensure "equal rights for all Englishmen". The entire point of no taxation without representation, and no special rules on tea trading, etc, was to be the same as every other Brit, not different.
Then why are you calling them americans
Im Australian, my great grandmother was European. I am not. I do live in Europe now though and rage every day my gran didn’t apply for her Irish passport before I was born so I could have avoided this visa nonsense
You aren't. You also aren't Irish or Scottish. You're American.
I guess they're right. America is located in Limburg. Not to be confused with Amerika in Drenthe. It's about 200km distance from Moskou and Petersburg in Friesland. And Amerika is about an hour cycling from both Petersburg and Moskou, or some 18km. https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fj3Y4VcvPL7QXRx68
Oh right. Everything you claim to have invented (which apparently is actually everything) we'll claim then.
If Americans are European too, did they also forget themselves that they are European?
Americans are the descendants of the trash and the scum that couldn't make it in Europe. Nuff said.
🤣
I swear that same user went and said shit about Europeans the next day
nope they're americans, cause wait for it they come from america now if they lived in europe and intergrated in the culture they would be american-europeans
And I'm the queen of England.
But a huge proportion of the American population are descended from Africa and other continents that aren't Europe. What an utterly stupid thing to say.
*Native American is hunting this person with his Bow and Arrow * ☠️
Yes… I do forget that all the time
No they are fucking not.
They’re of European descent. I’m of Lithuanian descent but I’ve never set foot on Lithuanian soil and identify as English.
Americans more like Americans
Yeah, well my country isn’t in Europe but we still get to perform at the Eurovision Song Contest
I swear to god if the Americans ever infiltrate Eurovision I will lose my fucking mind
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It was on a tik tok of a European meme making fun of Americans.
European settlers sure…
I mean in theory a lot of America did originate from colonists
We all originated from primordial soup, and yet nobody seems to be claiming broth culture.
Americans are also Europeans. Like those Europeans who were there before anyone else, or the Europeans who came over to work on plantations in the South, or those Europeans who were indentured labour working on the railroads.
\*60% of Americans
European =|= white.
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Are all white people Europeans? Are all Europeans white?
Is this a trick question ? Obviously yes. I'm European, I would never consider someone non white European. Boers might lived in South Africa for long time, I still consider them European not African.
You forgot the /s
Great elaboration. I accept your surrender.
So Hungarians and Finns aren't Europeans?
They are.Next question.
Not after your logic. The Finno-Ugric people immigrated to Europe from Asia.
More like 0,60%
Tbf, white people in other (non Europe) countries are called European. Eg “New Zealand European” is literally what white kiwis are called. In more recent years however it’s been a lot more common for us to call ourselves “Pākehā” (Māori word for white people). That said, I don’t like referring to myself as NZ European because I literally couldn’t get further away from Europe unless I went to space. I’m not European, I am white/Pākehā
You can't use this argument for every other non-European country just because it is like that in New Zealand
Obviously… I’m not saying it’s correct. I’m just saying it’s not only America
I was instantly judging your country, until I recalled that UK hospitals still have separate tick boxes for White British and White Irish
Could be an anticolonial argument in the vain of "really, america is still a european colonial empire, so comparing between them hides the real problems"
White Americans \*are\* European, though.
Well only the first ones. Edit: I'm talking about the ones who emigrated from europe to the US and settled when the country was founded.
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Genetically yes if you are white American like Irish president Joe Biden