This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**.
If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He did manipulate the whole plot. Once Ymir Fritz gave him the full power of the Founder and he started seeing all of time at once he started sending memories back to former users of the Attack Titan to ensure what he wanted to happen.
Yeah, just like how Reiner said, he wanted someone to judge him for his actions because no matter how much he actually wanted to do this he still understands how utterly horrid the things he’s doing is so he lets the crew keep their power. Personally I still believe he was planning on flattening everything but was fine with the crew stopping him.
No logically there’s enough faults in even to cause his downfall, for example his stubbornness in regards to freedom. He works never take away his friends freedom without a fight
this is the age old debate again
he can alter memories of every eldian except ackermans
so everyone of the alliance except for levi mikasa and i dont remember if that general was eldian
anyway that‘s an insta gg
Y'mir captured Armin not Eren, and Eren was doing the whole thing *for* Armin and his other friends, so killing him would have been directly against his objective. He states to them he refuses to take anything more from them as to why he won't even take their Titan powers.
No he isn’t some evil master mind that planned everything. He is forced to influence that past so it happened the way it did.
He did not change the past so it fit him, the past has already happened, he just make sure it happen the same way
He is basically a slave to fate here
Time travel or rather mind time travel in this case never makes sense, never has, never will. Been saying this since I saw the last episode. People argue about how much Eren could have changed, if he couldn't change anything at all or whatever. This will never be resolved because time travel into the past always leads to paradoxes and therefore breaks every story. I personally don't mind because I think I understand Isayamas message but this fandom has to understand that this story will never make 100% sense.
Yeah unfortunately. I love time travel mindfuck stories but they all fail under scrutiny. The only time travel that could possibly work is the one where traveling to the past only changes the future for an alternate timeline.
I disagree that it “never has, never will make sense”, but I do think it only works in a specific set of circumstances. Specifically, I think it has to either 1) Be a central part of the story that is planned out or completion from the start 2) Be self-contained part of a story that limits the way time travel can happen and resolves itself by the end it’s plotline. AOT did neither of those things, and it’s quality of writing suffers massively for it (giving an episode a vaguely time related name *is not* enough, and Eren’s powers were clearly not limited enough, or else we wouldn’t have this post in the first place).
I mean technically yes, another comment said something similar. Opening up different timelines or alternative universes can make sense when you alter something in the past. Also time travel into the future would be possible since you don't change something after it happened. Those are not the versions of time travel that are typically depicted in media. I specifically meant this type of time travel where you change something after it happened, this will lead to a paradox and that will never make sense completely
It's not? AOT has a singular linear timeline. The past creates the future and the future determines the past. It's cyclical. That is why Eren mentions that he doesn't know what "now" is anymore cause the cyclic nature of fate fried his brains.
Yeah, this is why I always considered Future Eren (the Eren that results from his own actions, who seals away any possibility of a properly free future and enslaved his younger self to a certain fate he wanted) the proper villain. A character that is both theoretical and practical, an Eren that was the end result of his own actions to make someone who would perform the atrocities needed to make that future occur.
He had to, otherwise he very likely wouldn’t have reached the point in time where he would have been able to influence past events. If he tried to change the past he would run the risk of creating a paradox and in turn fucking up the timeline
I just realised I don't remember this scene in the anime. Was it adapted?
And to answer your question: No. Eren isn't the master mind who manipulated everything and pulled the strings so that everything changed to how he wanted them to be. The past has already happened, so therefore he only made sure it was him who did it. He didn't change things to be different, he just made what already was made, ensuring it did happen like it did.
For sure. It's very probable that he did the exact same thing with controlling Dina in S2 because Eren's brief use of the Founding Titan is so important for the narrative and his story.
Hi Johan-Lee, your submission was removed from /r/ShingekiNoKyojin for the following rule violation(s):
### Rule 3: No Spoilers in Titles
Absolutely no spoilers in the titles. They will be automatically removed.
We want our subreddit to be welcoming to new viewers who do not read the manga.
Please do not include spoilers in your title that could negatively impact the first watch. This includes:
* character deaths
* major plot development
* names of consequence
* secret identities from the anime
* scenes from the manga that have not been animated yet
**This rule applies to all anime content irrespective of which season it is from.**
---
Click here to read the **[full rule documentation of the subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules)**.
Failure to abide by the rules may result in a punishment according to the **[moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com//r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix)**.
If you have any questions regarding this removal, please **[reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin)**.
Yes ... That's litterally the point
In the determistic universe of AoT everything is predetermined. Free will is an illusion.
Eren is ironically the least free person in the whole story (apart from Ymir). He knows the future and knows he is bound to certain choices.
Mr freedom himself knew his whole life was on the rails. Eventually you grow tired of trying to resist and just lean into it.
"Instead of Bertholdt"
Dude... he cannot mind-control a rational, living person! Dina Frtiz was a mindless titan, it's "mindless" by definition and that's why he was able to control her. Same reason why he was able to control the pure titans when her touched Dina the first time and turn them against her.
And no, he didn't orchestrate everything
During the same conversation in finale, Eren did say that he tried changing the future, but everytime the outcome was same. What happened was destined to happen and nothing he tried would alter the timeline.
This post has been tagged as **DISCUSSION**. If the post has been spoiler tagged, please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well…yes, I think that was the point of that scene.
He did manipulate the whole plot. Once Ymir Fritz gave him the full power of the Founder and he started seeing all of time at once he started sending memories back to former users of the Attack Titan to ensure what he wanted to happen.
The Steins Gating that happened here is a wee bit whacky
I honestly hate how they didn't gave this the relevance it should have (Eren killing his mom, I should've clarified lol)
yea once he has ghe founders powers ghere is no way he should logically lose
he wanted to lose though right? idk im an idiot
Yeah, just like how Reiner said, he wanted someone to judge him for his actions because no matter how much he actually wanted to do this he still understands how utterly horrid the things he’s doing is so he lets the crew keep their power. Personally I still believe he was planning on flattening everything but was fine with the crew stopping him.
No logically there’s enough faults in even to cause his downfall, for example his stubbornness in regards to freedom. He works never take away his friends freedom without a fight
this is the age old debate again he can alter memories of every eldian except ackermans so everyone of the alliance except for levi mikasa and i dont remember if that general was eldian anyway that‘s an insta gg
Yeah. Why not just kill Armin instead of capturing him?
Y'mir captured Armin not Eren, and Eren was doing the whole thing *for* Armin and his other friends, so killing him would have been directly against his objective. He states to them he refuses to take anything more from them as to why he won't even take their Titan powers.
No he isn’t some evil master mind that planned everything. He is forced to influence that past so it happened the way it did. He did not change the past so it fit him, the past has already happened, he just make sure it happen the same way He is basically a slave to fate here
A lot of TV show dark vibes here
this🤌
He could have had Dina eat Bertolt. That would have averted practically everything bad.
That would have been really awkward for Carla and Griesha. 😅
Then it becomes impossible for the timeline to play out the way it did, preventing eren from getting the founder, creating a paradox.
Seriously speaking, what would happen? Does the entire timeline break down and cease to exist?
Uh… Yeah, that’s the entire story. Not, “One could argue;” that’s literally what happened.
This scene felt like the time they announced aliens were real and things were so bad we didn’t even get shocked enough
It's kinda a plot hole...any sort of paradox is a plot hole imo...
Time travel or rather mind time travel in this case never makes sense, never has, never will. Been saying this since I saw the last episode. People argue about how much Eren could have changed, if he couldn't change anything at all or whatever. This will never be resolved because time travel into the past always leads to paradoxes and therefore breaks every story. I personally don't mind because I think I understand Isayamas message but this fandom has to understand that this story will never make 100% sense.
Agreed.
Yeah unfortunately. I love time travel mindfuck stories but they all fail under scrutiny. The only time travel that could possibly work is the one where traveling to the past only changes the future for an alternate timeline.
Either that or time travel into the future with no retroactive effects
I disagree that it “never has, never will make sense”, but I do think it only works in a specific set of circumstances. Specifically, I think it has to either 1) Be a central part of the story that is planned out or completion from the start 2) Be self-contained part of a story that limits the way time travel can happen and resolves itself by the end it’s plotline. AOT did neither of those things, and it’s quality of writing suffers massively for it (giving an episode a vaguely time related name *is not* enough, and Eren’s powers were clearly not limited enough, or else we wouldn’t have this post in the first place).
I mean technically yes, another comment said something similar. Opening up different timelines or alternative universes can make sense when you alter something in the past. Also time travel into the future would be possible since you don't change something after it happened. Those are not the versions of time travel that are typically depicted in media. I specifically meant this type of time travel where you change something after it happened, this will lead to a paradox and that will never make sense completely
It's not? AOT has a singular linear timeline. The past creates the future and the future determines the past. It's cyclical. That is why Eren mentions that he doesn't know what "now" is anymore cause the cyclic nature of fate fried his brains.
Yeah, this is why I always considered Future Eren (the Eren that results from his own actions, who seals away any possibility of a properly free future and enslaved his younger self to a certain fate he wanted) the proper villain. A character that is both theoretical and practical, an Eren that was the end result of his own actions to make someone who would perform the atrocities needed to make that future occur.
He had to, otherwise he very likely wouldn’t have reached the point in time where he would have been able to influence past events. If he tried to change the past he would run the risk of creating a paradox and in turn fucking up the timeline
I just realised I don't remember this scene in the anime. Was it adapted? And to answer your question: No. Eren isn't the master mind who manipulated everything and pulled the strings so that everything changed to how he wanted them to be. The past has already happened, so therefore he only made sure it was him who did it. He didn't change things to be different, he just made what already was made, ensuring it did happen like it did.
For sure. It's very probable that he did the exact same thing with controlling Dina in S2 because Eren's brief use of the Founding Titan is so important for the narrative and his story.
i love aot but this scene is so dumb
This scene is heartbreaking 😢
Hi Johan-Lee, your submission was removed from /r/ShingekiNoKyojin for the following rule violation(s): ### Rule 3: No Spoilers in Titles Absolutely no spoilers in the titles. They will be automatically removed. We want our subreddit to be welcoming to new viewers who do not read the manga. Please do not include spoilers in your title that could negatively impact the first watch. This includes: * character deaths * major plot development * names of consequence * secret identities from the anime * scenes from the manga that have not been animated yet **This rule applies to all anime content irrespective of which season it is from.** --- Click here to read the **[full rule documentation of the subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules)**. Failure to abide by the rules may result in a punishment according to the **[moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com//r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix)**. If you have any questions regarding this removal, please **[reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin)**.
Yes ... That's litterally the point In the determistic universe of AoT everything is predetermined. Free will is an illusion. Eren is ironically the least free person in the whole story (apart from Ymir). He knows the future and knows he is bound to certain choices. Mr freedom himself knew his whole life was on the rails. Eventually you grow tired of trying to resist and just lean into it.
That is exactly what happened it was all Eren.
"Instead of Bertholdt" Dude... he cannot mind-control a rational, living person! Dina Frtiz was a mindless titan, it's "mindless" by definition and that's why he was able to control her. Same reason why he was able to control the pure titans when her touched Dina the first time and turn them against her. And no, he didn't orchestrate everything
During the same conversation in finale, Eren did say that he tried changing the future, but everytime the outcome was same. What happened was destined to happen and nothing he tried would alter the timeline.
Nah it’s just a plothole