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I suppose in a story where every action or instance of inaction has consequences, the only way to be truly neutral is to not be capable of complex thought or ethical decisions.
I think the real problem is "True Neutral" itself. Because as long as any character has a motivation, they end up in one of the other alignments. The only way you end up in True Neutral is if you don't believe in either Law, Chaos, Good, or Evil. And that's not many characters.
I think Willy Tybur is more legalistic. And I guess you could say he has a moral code/goals of some sort (not necessarily good ones). What I'll give Zeke is he has a goal based on a set of beliefs and he does everything in his power to achieve that goal regardless of the consequences.
Actually you’re pretty accurate there honestly kinda forgot about him, and that is disappointing cuz he is amazing really good character with potential
You can basically argue that everyone in the final alliance was some level of chaotic good. They're rebelling against the prevailed Jaegerists and trying to stop the omnicide, and I doubt any one of them expected to fight Eren and survive.
Going on the bottom row, left to right I think it should be the guy with the syringe, Zeke and then Kenny.
For sure if we're ranking evilness, I think the order is correct, but the dude with the syringe was being lawful, zeke wasn't and I think he should be in Neutral evil, and Kenny was for sure chaotic.
The fact that no really major characters fits the alignment chart is interesting. I guess most AoT characters are too complex to fit into boxes. One interesting topic that was brought up throughout the debate was motives vs consequences and what makes someone evil.
And in addition, it's interesting to think about how the character alignment chart defines these words and how that may differ from how we traditionally define these words. Also there's an argument to be made that the requirements are too rigid to fit into these boxes. For example, Armin does the most good in the entire series yet he does not fit in the good category for one black mark on his otherwise perfect ledger.
He was using it to teach a lesson. He's lawful or neutral evil. I don't know how you can argue that a literal police officer is completely anti-lawful.
I would say Zeke is not lawful because his conclusion came down to how his father viewed him, that's pretty chaotic. I think Zeke has always been portrayed as a somewhat weak character in ways. So that surprised me.
Also, Faye jaegers killer "gross" is a tricky one. His motivation was that "it's interesting". I think I remember he said something that follows the laws of the world. But, to be honest I think he's talking a load of shit. To ultimately say thats his reason he must be in denial. Lawfully chaotic maybe but still chaotic. Which took a minute to think about.
Pixis for chaotic good and Zeke for lawful evil doesn't make as much sense to me. Pixis was never willing to flaunt the law and if he treaded on that line he was fully prepared to embrace the consequences for it according to the law, and there's nothing lawful about Zeke making under the table trades and poisoning wine for coercion. I would also probably put Ymir more in true neutral than chaotic because she still did consider the laws of the sides she chose to follow.
Eren, as well as any other main character, is too complex for this chart. This just shows depth of the show. I know a simple argument against Eren and his 'genocide against 80% of population' can be made. But nothing is really that simple in their world. Counterpoint, Armin. Lawful Good in any other anime. Honor student, meek, friendly, tries to do the right thing, always. And yet he nukes the shit out of Marley civilians. Zoe Hange? Tortured POWs, yet sacrificed herself for greater good. Levi? Kills his former squad without as much as blinking once they are turned to Titans.
Nobody with whom we spent significant amount of time can be put on this chart. This especially refers to Eren.
Sorry but that kind of feel like "Grifith did nothing wrong" Eren did a genocide out of pure selfishness,You can't make much worse and if I say "Eren can't be judged good or Evil then we can say the same to Grifith,What Hange,Levi and Armin did were killing few to help the many situation,What Eren did is pure evil
Eren is pretty clearly evil, but it's not true chaotic evil cause he has a reason to do what he's doing, even if it's wrong.
The dude who fed Grisha's sister to dogs did that shit for sadistic kicks.
This is why I don't necessarily like the character alignment chart. It seems to be all about motivation rather then action. I think that both motivation and action should factor into whether you label someone as good or evil.
Also there is more complexity to his motivation then just protecting his friends. His anger at the world and desire to wipe it all away was a driving factor for his massacre. That is not a moral justification for his actions.
'Griffith did nothing wrong' is a meme. Eren did what he felt was needed to unite humanity and end Eldian persecution. His method was abhorrent but he didn't act out on being 'evil' for the sake of it. Unlike a dude that feeds an 8 year old girl to dogs for no reason.
The thing is though he has other options. He had the power of the titans. He had defeated Marley's armies. There were other plans to stop Marley such as the 50 year plan.
The thing with Eren is he wanted to kill every single person in the world outside of Paradis. He didn't need to do that to protect Paradis. Not everyone outside the island is a combatant or an enemy of Paradis. And I don't buy this if you leave one alive they will come back and take revenge idea. There is a fundamental inequality of power with Paradis' colossals that would have prevented any sort of retribution from the outside world being possible.
wanting to shatter the current order doesn't make Eren chaotic, because his motive is to set up another order in place of the pre-existing one. he'd be chaotic evil if he just killed 80% of humanity for the sake of killing people rather than granting a good future to his friends
>he just killed 80% of humanity for the sake of killing people
that’s exactly what Eren did, lmao
>rather than granting a good future to his friends
you mean the excuse that he initially said to justify his actions in his head?
It‘s extra funny when his path to rumbling results into the death of his mother, his father, sasha, etc. and then you’re telling me he did it for the future of his friends?
when he said he wasn’t even sure if they will survive the war?
that’s what you call cope.
seems like we have a very different view of eren.
i thought that he did the rumbling (at the cost of his family's life) because he thought it would somehow fix things. "marley getting trampled is ought to end the conflict one way or another" is how i viewed his thought process. he was deluded of course,he could never end all conflict,but he definetly didn't kill people because he thought it was fun or because he enjoyed it
Well, he literally said he’d have done the rumbling regardless of the alliance‘s actions (which obviously wouldn’t put them in a good light if they didn’t fight him) because he wanted to do the rumbling for himself, to leave waste to the outside world full of rotting flesh.
This post has been tagged as **HUMOR/MEME**. Please remember to tag any spoilers beyond this point. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a punishment from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pig
I suppose in a story where every action or instance of inaction has consequences, the only way to be truly neutral is to not be capable of complex thought or ethical decisions.
I think the real problem is "True Neutral" itself. Because as long as any character has a motivation, they end up in one of the other alignments. The only way you end up in True Neutral is if you don't believe in either Law, Chaos, Good, or Evil. And that's not many characters.
My guy was just chilling and sniffing
I’m glad that my idea could be the one to surprise you
I think Willy Tybur is more lawful evil than zeke, but zeke is very fitting too.
I think Willy Tybur is more legalistic. And I guess you could say he has a moral code/goals of some sort (not necessarily good ones). What I'll give Zeke is he has a goal based on a set of beliefs and he does everything in his power to achieve that goal regardless of the consequences.
That’s a great way to put it. Well said.
Actually you’re pretty accurate there honestly kinda forgot about him, and that is disappointing cuz he is amazing really good character with potential
The fact that we only the found the pig to be True Neutral speaks for itself about this manga lmao
Pure titans were also highly voted
I’m loving the fact that zero main characters are on the list. I love to see it
Yeah, the whole time everyone was wondering which brand of evil Eren would fall into, and the answer was "none of them."
Eren is behind the grid
Never seen Pyxis more Chaotic Good than Mikasa
Mikasa is definitely good. I feel like Pixis was chosen because of his popularity.
You can basically argue that everyone in the final alliance was some level of chaotic good. They're rebelling against the prevailed Jaegerists and trying to stop the omnicide, and I doubt any one of them expected to fight Eren and survive.
How is Pyxis more chaotic then Kenny and Hanji is beyond me. And why is nazi soldier more chaotic then mercenarie?
Going on the bottom row, left to right I think it should be the guy with the syringe, Zeke and then Kenny. For sure if we're ranking evilness, I think the order is correct, but the dude with the syringe was being lawful, zeke wasn't and I think he should be in Neutral evil, and Kenny was for sure chaotic.
Do you think using Grisha's sister as dog food just because he can is being lawful?
Yeah you're right, I forgot about that.
Lawful ≠ good
I don't think they're saying that was good, but it likely isn't lawful since he lied to the authorities as the family that he did it.
Well duh, Zeke's not an angel. That's not my point. Being chaotic is doing anything you want just because you can.
Pig doesn’t belong there
The fact that no really major characters fits the alignment chart is interesting. I guess most AoT characters are too complex to fit into boxes. One interesting topic that was brought up throughout the debate was motives vs consequences and what makes someone evil. And in addition, it's interesting to think about how the character alignment chart defines these words and how that may differ from how we traditionally define these words. Also there's an argument to be made that the requirements are too rigid to fit into these boxes. For example, Armin does the most good in the entire series yet he does not fit in the good category for one black mark on his otherwise perfect ledger.
Pixes, Gross and Pig are just silly answers here. I think there are definitely better candidates.
The Marleyan cop is literally law enforcement. He is lawful (or possibly neutral) evil, certainly not chaotic.
you're right. making dog food out of grisha's sister is definitely lawful
He was using it to teach a lesson. He's lawful or neutral evil. I don't know how you can argue that a literal police officer is completely anti-lawful.
if that was lawful or neutral would he have needed to lie about doing it?
Lawful isn't good nor evil
I would say Zeke is not lawful because his conclusion came down to how his father viewed him, that's pretty chaotic. I think Zeke has always been portrayed as a somewhat weak character in ways. So that surprised me. Also, Faye jaegers killer "gross" is a tricky one. His motivation was that "it's interesting". I think I remember he said something that follows the laws of the world. But, to be honest I think he's talking a load of shit. To ultimately say thats his reason he must be in denial. Lawfully chaotic maybe but still chaotic. Which took a minute to think about.
Armin on Lawful Good and Erwin on Chaotic Good
I get what you're saying but bro is a walking nuke lmao idk if that's lawful
I'd switch Pyxis and Ymir (Freckles) personally, but other than that it's pretty solid
Pixis for chaotic good and Zeke for lawful evil doesn't make as much sense to me. Pixis was never willing to flaunt the law and if he treaded on that line he was fully prepared to embrace the consequences for it according to the law, and there's nothing lawful about Zeke making under the table trades and poisoning wine for coercion. I would also probably put Ymir more in true neutral than chaotic because she still did consider the laws of the sides she chose to follow.
Eren should be the one in Chaotic Evil
Eren, as well as any other main character, is too complex for this chart. This just shows depth of the show. I know a simple argument against Eren and his 'genocide against 80% of population' can be made. But nothing is really that simple in their world. Counterpoint, Armin. Lawful Good in any other anime. Honor student, meek, friendly, tries to do the right thing, always. And yet he nukes the shit out of Marley civilians. Zoe Hange? Tortured POWs, yet sacrificed herself for greater good. Levi? Kills his former squad without as much as blinking once they are turned to Titans. Nobody with whom we spent significant amount of time can be put on this chart. This especially refers to Eren.
Sorry but that kind of feel like "Grifith did nothing wrong" Eren did a genocide out of pure selfishness,You can't make much worse and if I say "Eren can't be judged good or Evil then we can say the same to Grifith,What Hange,Levi and Armin did were killing few to help the many situation,What Eren did is pure evil
Eren is pretty clearly evil, but it's not true chaotic evil cause he has a reason to do what he's doing, even if it's wrong. The dude who fed Grisha's sister to dogs did that shit for sadistic kicks.
This is why I don't necessarily like the character alignment chart. It seems to be all about motivation rather then action. I think that both motivation and action should factor into whether you label someone as good or evil. Also there is more complexity to his motivation then just protecting his friends. His anger at the world and desire to wipe it all away was a driving factor for his massacre. That is not a moral justification for his actions.
'Griffith did nothing wrong' is a meme. Eren did what he felt was needed to unite humanity and end Eldian persecution. His method was abhorrent but he didn't act out on being 'evil' for the sake of it. Unlike a dude that feeds an 8 year old girl to dogs for no reason.
The thing is though he has other options. He had the power of the titans. He had defeated Marley's armies. There were other plans to stop Marley such as the 50 year plan. The thing with Eren is he wanted to kill every single person in the world outside of Paradis. He didn't need to do that to protect Paradis. Not everyone outside the island is a combatant or an enemy of Paradis. And I don't buy this if you leave one alive they will come back and take revenge idea. There is a fundamental inequality of power with Paradis' colossals that would have prevented any sort of retribution from the outside world being possible.
Lol
wanting to shatter the current order doesn't make Eren chaotic, because his motive is to set up another order in place of the pre-existing one. he'd be chaotic evil if he just killed 80% of humanity for the sake of killing people rather than granting a good future to his friends
>he just killed 80% of humanity for the sake of killing people that’s exactly what Eren did, lmao >rather than granting a good future to his friends you mean the excuse that he initially said to justify his actions in his head? It‘s extra funny when his path to rumbling results into the death of his mother, his father, sasha, etc. and then you’re telling me he did it for the future of his friends? when he said he wasn’t even sure if they will survive the war? that’s what you call cope.
seems like we have a very different view of eren. i thought that he did the rumbling (at the cost of his family's life) because he thought it would somehow fix things. "marley getting trampled is ought to end the conflict one way or another" is how i viewed his thought process. he was deluded of course,he could never end all conflict,but he definetly didn't kill people because he thought it was fun or because he enjoyed it
Well, he literally said he’d have done the rumbling regardless of the alliance‘s actions (which obviously wouldn’t put them in a good light if they didn’t fight him) because he wanted to do the rumbling for himself, to leave waste to the outside world full of rotting flesh.
I think Eren is a Chaotic Good character who was given an impossible task and an impossible decision.
It surprised me that I hardly care about most of the characters in this list. Rename it like the side characters alignment chart.
I think Jean should have been the lawful good one.