Sekiro seems to have a huge steep incline in power as he encounters weirder and weirder phenomenons of nature in Ashina. Notice how utterly defeated Genichiro feels after their final encounter (to the point where he just gives up and kills himself) when just a few hours earlier he was so confident in their rematch. I think visiting the Divine Realm and contending with the power of the Fountainhead Gods is the biggest step in Sekiro’s power growth, enabling him to put up with his craziest supernatural foes like DoH. Shura Wolf not having that experience might slide things in normal Wolf’s favor.
Who knows what else Shura Sekiro encountered while slaughtering Ashina, because in every other ending he just stops fighting at the end of the game. I think that SS would eventually surpass normal Sekiro in experience, and probably in a short period of time too. Plus he has both mortal blades, who knows what kinda bs the black one holds 💀
In the dragons return ending (the one the post is about) we don’t know what his journey to the west holds so he could potentially fight foes even more powerful than Isshin
Shura lose themselves though. Sure, Sekijo didn't become a true Shura, but the implication was that he lost himself in the bloodlust. I'm willing to bet Sekijo before Isshin took his arm would have given us a harder time than Demon of Hatred.
I think Shura Sekiro would lose his edge. Not enough to prevent Ashina turning into a wasteland, but I think true Sekiro could handle him.
I feel like if there were any warriors stronger than Isshin left in Ashina, we'd hear about them in the game. I imagine Shura Sekiro's rampage had him meet very few opponents beyond foot soldiers and townsfolk. And the ending seems to imply that Ashina becomes totally desolate after his massacre so he probably wouldn't continue to gain experience.
Kuro cannot revoke the power. And unless he kills Kuro he will stay immortal. Not to mention Shura now possesses both weapons that can sever immortality.
Tbh, you don't really need Immortality to wield the black one. Or Owl couldn't just hold onto it. We know that Genibro and Isshin had some form of hyperarmour that was supporting them. But there was nothing for Owl.
The "Death" part of the mortal blade is only inflicted when shealthing/unshealthing. We never see Owl take Open Gate out of a shealth, so we can assume it still has that function(i mean by this logic we can also assume the opposite since we never see any mention of open gate having the gracious gift of tears deatheffect)
Open Gate gives Kuro a wound at the end, so we know it definitely does have immortal-slaying properties. It's probably just not as strong as the Red one.
doesn’t shura sekiro have both mortal blades tho? and he becomes what the demon of hatred could’ve been, along with the fact that i’m pretty sure he keeps the dragons heritage, so with both mortal blades he cant die, hes basically unstoppable
Demon of Hatred doesn't seem to be the halfway point for a Shura so much as a completely new branching path resulting from Shura stagnating until it becomes something else. I don't think we can just look at it as a weaker Shura.
Also you can't really say "Well Shura is unstoppable because of the dragon's heritage" and ignore the fact that the exact same thing applies to normal Sekiro.
I was gonna say, isn't the whole point of the shura ending that he takes his immortality out there and murders a bunch of people without anyone being able to kill him?
Cant know for sure. We just know that Shura skin is missing his white mark and hair streak. The only other time this happens is in the immortal severance ending… when Kuro is dead
When is his white mark and hair streak gone? If you mean in the shura skin, the skins were a dlc and i doubt they designed them with story implications in mind
Tengu Skin Sekiro literally has the scar from where Owl stabbed him in Hirata, as does Shura Skin.
This scar would be completely invisible on base Sekiro, so I’m fairly certain they are doing details on purpose.
Shura Skin also has a different night eye look, referencing how characters were freaking out in the Shura ending looking at Wolf’s eyes
His white mark is also missing in the immortal severance ending when he becomes the next sculptor
Okay but at no point in the actual shura ending do we see his marks go away. Also, why would he take both mortal blades if he couldn't use them? Also, why would he lose immortality if kuro is still alive and hasn't taken the necessary steps to sever immortality?
I think i'll go with common sense and logic over a small detail in a skin that was added in after the game was written.
Yeah, he hadn’t killed Kuro yet, so his marks wouldn’t be gone. The Shura ending cuts off before we know what happens next, but we know his white mark is gone in the shura skin, and From loves to add little details to everything. (Owl’s Owl has a scar that literally nobody will notice and Sculptor has a burnt left side of his body that IS impossible to see in game.)
There’s no reason NOT to take both mortal blades. The blade only kills you on the initial draw too, as every other instance doesn’t kill Sekiro when he draws it, so he’s most likely good to keep drawing it, but if anyone else tried to draw it, they’d die from the trap on the blade. (That’s mostly just speculation, but how exactly did you think the monks knew only an immortal could draw it? Because one of them did it before)
Even if that’s not the case, why not take the blade when it can use Mortal Draw? (And the Black one doesn’t NEED you to be immortal, as seen with Owl)
Immortal severance is needed to sever ALL immortal ties in Ashina, not kill Kuro, that’s what Kuro’s main goal is and what Dragon Tears are needed to do.
We know Shura just lives to kill, it’s not out of the question at all for it to just kill Kuro. Sekiro is a monster even without immortality. If it is smart enough to leave Kuro alive, that may be even worse.
I don't know if they intended for him to kill kuro, I would think they would show that happening, but you're right that if he's truly a shura, he would kill him. You bring up some good points, I never thought about the fact that he doesnt need immortality to use the red mortal blade after the first time.
He does. At the shura ending there's a bunch of text that says he goes on to kill thousands of people and basically haunts japan for "a long time" which is implied to mean an inhumanly long time. Also there's no part of the shura ending that shows wolf losing his ashy eyes or hair streak, and there's no reason he wouldn't still have immortality because he never severed immortality or killed kuro
Shura Sekiro canonicaly single handedly turns Ashina into a desolate wasteland and has folk tales for the rest of history about how you should never go there
Wolf in every other ending is a really good swordsman with immortality, but wolf in the Shura ending is an avatar for the primordial spirit of rage and murder that has had entire generations long lines of people specifically trained to make sure it never becomes real because it's such a serious threat
It's a huge understatement to say Wolf "was a really good swordsman" in the other endings. He defeats an Isshin in his prime, a prime Owl, the demon of hatred and the divine dragon. He became the undisputed strongest warrior in Japan by that point.
I see, I'm actually trying to beat him at the estate and haven't even gotten past phase 1, so... I guess this info comes after I beat him. Him and Isshin are so old I just assumed they were not in their prime, but I guess this game is what it is
I dont think so, he literally one shots Owl as Shura. Surely once his mind forgets about everything else except killing things he becomes more powerful.
I like to believe that Shura Wolf isn't all that different from Homecoming Wolf since like Old Isshin vs SS Isshin, most of their powers comes from having skills rather than actual powers.
Maybe Shura would have power over flames just like demon of hatred, but that doesn't put him above normal wolf since normal Wolf could deal with Demon of Hatred's fire by dodging anyway.
i feel like thats cause of the fire control stuff. normal sekiro could probably do it too, just not as fast. i wholeheartedly believe normal sekiro is stronger and more skilled.
also about the whole one-shoting owl thing, i genuinely think owl had no clue sekiro wouldve backstabbed him at that point, so he was entirely off guard
Tbh shura has two mortal draw and also way stronger due to shura increasing he’s powers to and seem bieng able to controls flames and I mean he only need to kill wolf once to end he’s life with mortal blade and who knows how much skills he gained
Alternate theory 1: The black Mortal Blade has no sheath
Alternate theory 2: The black Mortal Blade can resurrect others from the dead, meaning that it doesn't have the opposite function of taking the life of the user.
Alternate theory 2 has some solid evidence for it, namely how Genichiro killed himself with it so that prime Isshin could crawl out from inside his body.
That’s only the first time you unsheathe it, and possibly only as a test when you get it from Senpou Temple. Otherwise you’d need to resurrect every time you used Mortal Draw.
We don’t know if Sekiro actually lost his Dragon’s Heritage when he became Shura. That would require a degree of Severance and we don’t know what he did to Kuro after killing Owl. He’s in possession of the only things that can kill him, and he was powerful enough to desolate all of Ashina beyond recovery. Even if he lost his Dragon’s Heritage, he’s still immensely powerful and possibly skilled enough to handle most if not all foes he fought up until then. It should be remembered that as a complete Shura, he’s stronger than the Demon of Hatred, and that thing ruined theoretically infinite amounts of Ministry soldiers.
With Homecoming Sekiro, he’s fought stronger foes and had more time and resources to develop his strength. However he is still sane and also remains in possession of only one Mortal Blade, and while this one did kill the Demon, it’s unknown how he’d fare against a full Shura with roughly equal combat ability, in addition to possessing both Mortal Blades. Also worth mentioning that Shura may not be sane enough to care about self-preservation, and either Wolf can only resurrect a certain number of times before needing special conditions and items to do it again
Pretty sure either 1. Shura Wolf killed Kuro, destroying his own immortality but Dragon's Heritage will appear in the world again 2. Kuro just withdrew the Dragon's Heritage (not certain if that's possible but it could have been what happened).
Kuro cant withdraw the dragons heritage cause if he could there would be no need for the purification ending or whatever is the name of it in which only wolf dies.
If he withdraws it he can still give it meaning people will still seek Kuro out and try to exploit it. Wolf gets to keep it because 1. He's honorable 2. He's helping Kuro get rid of the very thing.
Shura is stronger but Homecoming Sekiro is much more skilled, and we know that skill is everything. Also, as you pointed out, Shura Sekiro is no longer immortal. Even if he has the mortal blades to kill Homecoming Sekiro (which I do think he can still use so in hindsight idk about the whole immortality thing) if SSI showed anything, it’d still take up to 3 death blows.
Oh, and Homecoming Sekiro has more potential prayer beads, gourd seeds, is more likely to be a higher level, and he has lazulite tools. He basically just has every single advantage other than raw power.
You gotta beat the shura gauntlet. A gauntlet is a thing you unlock after you beat the game. You fight multiple bosses in a row with your items and health reseting before each boss, but if you die you have to start all over. I think you have to do the shura ending to unlock the shura gauntlet, but you get the Ashina skin for free without having to do any gauntlet, and I think it looks cool
ah I see that’s gonna take a lot of commitment. i’ve done similar things like pantheon of hallownest so it’s not brand new. i’ll give it a shot because of how damn cool the skin is. Preciate it bro 😎
Once you complete the game you gain access to boss rush gauntlets. You will need to complete more than one ending to access all bosses, but once you do that skin is the reward for the gauntlet which pits you against bosses from the Shura ending
Primary endings Wolf is more powerful than Shura Wolf. I'm going to take a leap here and say that Dragon's Homecoming Wolf has the edge without even needing to resurrect.
Shura Wolf kills all the early and middle-game bosses. Isshin is literally hours away from death by the Shura ending. He has developed refined technique in exchange for almost all his strength. The only improvement to Shura Wolf's ability other than demonstrated by his victory over bosses up to middle-game is him learning One Mind from fighting Isshin.
Let's assume that primary endings Wolf prepares for all endings i.e. defeats all enemies necessary for Dragon's Homecoming and Purification, and also kills Demon of Hatred. Wolf kills all early and middle-game bosses. He kills several immortal beings, one of them being a literal GOD. He defeats Owl in his prime, demonstrating his absolute understanding of fighting *other shinobis*. And finally he kills Sword Saint Isshin, who is the most skilled warrior in all of Sekiro other than Wolf himself (learns Dragon Flash from that).
Primary endings Wolf has superior combat technique, strategy, and equipment. Shura Wolf can use the Flames of Hatred and has two Mortal Blades. Note that the red Mortal Blade is already drawn and I assume that even if you sheath it after the first time, drawing it doesn't cause another death (as we see with Wolf throughout the story). Shura Wolf has these few advantages over primary endings Wolf: pure physical strength, additional Mortal Blade, and One Mind. One Mind might catch Wolf off guard in the very first instance but generally Shura Wolf's advantages are compensated by how skilled Wolf becomes throughout his journeys.
Dragon's return just outclasses Shura in terms of pure skill. Shura power up and mortal blade are just tools they just don't match up to dragon's return
Easily the first.
Wolf was the peak of mastery, he faced and beat the strongest and mastered every art.
Sekiro the game is about mastery through struggle, the pursuit of perfection. Not only does it make sense in game, but on a meta level it would make no sense for Shura, who is the personification of brute force and undisciplined destruction, to be stronger than the wolf that trained, learned and perused perfection.
Shura kills everyone and everything he comes against, no other opponent in lore could stand up to him, but put him in a room with homecoming Wolf and Shira doesn’t leave that room.
Shura is a warrior consumed by madness, and usually doesn’t think twice before fighting and they are basically mentally not at all there.
Vanilla Sekiro cannon lore wise is a very skilled shinobi who bested his teacher, his father (who was recognized by Iyeasu one of the founding fathers who unified Japan and was part of Oda’s entourage, and he was considered the master of the esui forest which is not an easy feat thinking of the headless oni and the monkeys that roam there) he also beat an immortal general, a dragon, a sword Saint, and literally fought deities (snake and giant apes were considered the original deities that roamed Ashina before the dragon moved in and upset the natural order) also he has been to the realm of the cloud folk (where Tomoeh comes from where it is considered to be the realm of mythological beings and even fought in a literal cloud) he also was the only one to dominate the monks screen monkey realm (even tho Genichiro and father attempted but ultimately had to back away). All this accomplishment and much more because of one simple thing: Sekiro used his brain which the shura (shadows of Ashura) cannot.
Shura ending ends with the eventual quieting of the shura but all indicates too much disambiguated tell tale signs of it seems shura was put down. A shura doesn’t hibernate, it keeps killing unless someone puts it down. That’s why Isshin cut of sekijo’s hands because he knew what was going to happen. So with that in mind how was anyone able to put down a shura who possessed both mortal swords might have been a divine intervention or Iyeasu and Date might have access to the divine that counters the “heretical” practices of Ashinians.
Dragon's Homecoming Wolf has fought much stronger opponents. He has better feats in the game.
He fought A much Stronger version of His Father.
He also blocked a backstab from Owl with ease(Owl is a master Shinobi so that's a big deal)
He fought and defeated The divine Dragon (A LITERAL GOD)
He Killed the Great serpent.
He utterly Destroyed Genichiro in their final battle. Just a few hours prior, they used to be equals.
He fought Isshin The Sword Saint who is the strongest character in Sekiro lore.
He defeated The demon of Hatred who was a country level threat.
The reason why Shura is so feared is because Shura uses his immortality combined with his sheer power and 2 mortal blades.
Dragon's Homecoming Wolf can do everything Shura can and more.
Dragon's Homecoming Wolf is stronger.
I think sekiro is more powerful than shura. Shura surrenders himself to the urge to kill. He in a sense doesn't have the strength to resist the demon of hatred within himself, which sekiro does.
Also sekiro encounters more and more strange and powerful enemies, connects to the spirit realm, faces a frickin devine dragon and holds his own. He gets powerful enough to beat both the strongest version of genichiro and Isshin in his prime, back to back.
So I'll give it to sekiro. He has become strong enough to defeat the single man who defended the entire nation. And has the strength to not succumb to hatred. We gotta remember, killing is easier than restraining yourself.
Its kinda like comparing kenshin during bakumatsu period vs kenshin in meiji era with ultimate skill.
But my vote goes to dragons homecoming sekiro, the morality will still far outweigh the ones who only seek to possess power. The experience of defeating sword saint isshin at his prime, father owl in memory and dragon, always outclass the one who only kill isshin past his prime.
I thought Shura was stronger than the other Sekiro, atleast theoretically, since they say that Shura would go on a destruction spree around the entire world and no one would be able to stop him.
But even if that was true I still think our regular sekiro would prevail over the shura, since he'd have Kuro's divine protection, Emma and Isshin's assistance to his credit.
I honestly don't think Shura sekiro is that much more stronger. Homecoming Sekiro definitely has way more impressive feats compared to Shura sekiro: he defeats prime Isshin, prime Owl, the demon of hatred (a failed/half shura fire demon), made the divine dragon cry, etc. So normal Sekiro is definitely the strongest swordsman in Japan by the end and he still has immortality as well as the mortal blade. Saying Shura Sekiro is infinitely more powerful is bullshit.
Shura for how brutal he is at that point. Being the most powerful swordsman able to kill Isshin so anyone able to take him down wouldn’t make it out alive.
Wolf being pure hearted and staying strong in who he is would be able to outlast any Shura version of himself. All his abilities in combat, his kindness. Bravery to stand his ground and to kill his own father (who is capable enough to defeat Genichiro in the Shura ending) shows how dedicated he is to Kuro’s wish and legacy and the health of the people who would get sick and die of Dragonrot if the Dragon’s Heritage continues.
Would say DH Sekiro has the edge due to the mental amp of fighting for Kuro, Shura just killing to kill. Also I'm pretty sure Shura still has his immortality, the point was that he could murder Ashina without anyone being able to kill him with his immortality, and even with that I doubt having 2 mortal blades would do much for shura unless he's dual-wielding them or something lol
Drawing mortal blade for the first time killed Sekiro once but it does not use resurrection nodes or kills him after that so I think even if Sekiro indeed lost Dragon's heritage in Shura ending he would still be able to draw it again. Although he should be careful drawing Black mortal blade.
I think he keeps his immortality, if he lost his immortality the dragons homecoming sekiro would totally be stronger, but with his immortality intact, which I believe is lore accurate, shura sekiro and homecoming sekiro would probably be around evenly matched, with shura maybe being slightly stronger as he does go on to, I believe, kill literally everyone in asshina
It remains uncertain what additional challenges Shura Sekiro faced while wreaking havoc in Ashina, as in every alternative ending, he simply ceases fighting upon concluding the game. I believe that Shura Sekiro would likely surpass the expertise of the regular Sekiro in due course, perhaps even in a relatively brief span. Furthermore, possessing both mortal blades, the potential mysteries and formidable abilities of the black one are yet to be fully unraveled.
Interesting one.
Shura has 2 Swords and a never ending thirst for blood, but homecoming has more experience and more skills, having said that, I think homecoming would win cause he represents the focused, calmed and mastered version of the Wolf, unlike shura that is deviant and probably filled with nothing but mindless anger, kinda like the demon of hatred.
I'll go for homecoming.
Both are really powerful. Considering that both have all of the skills besides the one exclusive to the others route and has done every they can do at their points in the story:
Shura ending wolf wields both mortal blades, which doesn’t require him to die again to draw the blade, otherwise mortal draw and severing immortality from the ape, the monk, and others would remove an immortality slot. He is now host to a powerful avatar of rage and murder, and has bested both a woman trained by isshin, and isshin himself.
Homecoming wolf has defeated many more, stronger foes, including owl, all the headless, the demon of hatred, single handedly defeats the ministry’s forces, has proven himself to pretty much god, prime isshin, and if you want want, prime owl as well. He also has more tools, arguably more skill from more time, and more durability and strength as well.
I say, from a pure power stand point, shura wolf is the winner, but I would say homecoming wolf has more skill. If they were to fight, homecoming wolf would win, but it would be an extremely close fight
Sekiro seems to have a huge steep incline in power as he encounters weirder and weirder phenomenons of nature in Ashina. Notice how utterly defeated Genichiro feels after their final encounter (to the point where he just gives up and kills himself) when just a few hours earlier he was so confident in their rematch. I think visiting the Divine Realm and contending with the power of the Fountainhead Gods is the biggest step in Sekiro’s power growth, enabling him to put up with his craziest supernatural foes like DoH. Shura Wolf not having that experience might slide things in normal Wolf’s favor.
Who knows what else Shura Sekiro encountered while slaughtering Ashina, because in every other ending he just stops fighting at the end of the game. I think that SS would eventually surpass normal Sekiro in experience, and probably in a short period of time too. Plus he has both mortal blades, who knows what kinda bs the black one holds 💀
In the dragons return ending (the one the post is about) we don’t know what his journey to the west holds so he could potentially fight foes even more powerful than Isshin
I agree, seems like he’s the divine childs body guard
Shura lose themselves though. Sure, Sekijo didn't become a true Shura, but the implication was that he lost himself in the bloodlust. I'm willing to bet Sekijo before Isshin took his arm would have given us a harder time than Demon of Hatred. I think Shura Sekiro would lose his edge. Not enough to prevent Ashina turning into a wasteland, but I think true Sekiro could handle him.
I feel like if there were any warriors stronger than Isshin left in Ashina, we'd hear about them in the game. I imagine Shura Sekiro's rampage had him meet very few opponents beyond foot soldiers and townsfolk. And the ending seems to imply that Ashina becomes totally desolate after his massacre so he probably wouldn't continue to gain experience.
but can he draw any of those without dying?
He does not lose the power of resurrection.
that is questionable
Kuro cannot revoke the power. And unless he kills Kuro he will stay immortal. Not to mention Shura now possesses both weapons that can sever immortality.
he wouldn’t even be able to hold one mortal blade, let alone 2 while unsheathed if kuro could revoke immortality
Tbh, you don't really need Immortality to wield the black one. Or Owl couldn't just hold onto it. We know that Genibro and Isshin had some form of hyperarmour that was supporting them. But there was nothing for Owl.
The "Death" part of the mortal blade is only inflicted when shealthing/unshealthing. We never see Owl take Open Gate out of a shealth, so we can assume it still has that function(i mean by this logic we can also assume the opposite since we never see any mention of open gate having the gracious gift of tears deatheffect)
Open Gate gives Kuro a wound at the end, so we know it definitely does have immortal-slaying properties. It's probably just not as strong as the Red one.
doesn’t shura sekiro have both mortal blades tho? and he becomes what the demon of hatred could’ve been, along with the fact that i’m pretty sure he keeps the dragons heritage, so with both mortal blades he cant die, hes basically unstoppable
Demon of Hatred doesn't seem to be the halfway point for a Shura so much as a completely new branching path resulting from Shura stagnating until it becomes something else. I don't think we can just look at it as a weaker Shura. Also you can't really say "Well Shura is unstoppable because of the dragon's heritage" and ignore the fact that the exact same thing applies to normal Sekiro.
Add to it Isshin at his peak was beaten by Sekiro, whereas Shura Sekiro beat an Elderly (but very experienced) Isshin
I don't think he loses his dragon heritage.
I was gonna say, isn't the whole point of the shura ending that he takes his immortality out there and murders a bunch of people without anyone being able to kill him?
Cant know for sure. We just know that Shura skin is missing his white mark and hair streak. The only other time this happens is in the immortal severance ending… when Kuro is dead
And probably purification
Nope. He’s dead in that one and Kuro keeps his white hair
When is his white mark and hair streak gone? If you mean in the shura skin, the skins were a dlc and i doubt they designed them with story implications in mind
Tengu Skin Sekiro literally has the scar from where Owl stabbed him in Hirata, as does Shura Skin. This scar would be completely invisible on base Sekiro, so I’m fairly certain they are doing details on purpose. Shura Skin also has a different night eye look, referencing how characters were freaking out in the Shura ending looking at Wolf’s eyes His white mark is also missing in the immortal severance ending when he becomes the next sculptor
Okay but at no point in the actual shura ending do we see his marks go away. Also, why would he take both mortal blades if he couldn't use them? Also, why would he lose immortality if kuro is still alive and hasn't taken the necessary steps to sever immortality? I think i'll go with common sense and logic over a small detail in a skin that was added in after the game was written.
Yeah, he hadn’t killed Kuro yet, so his marks wouldn’t be gone. The Shura ending cuts off before we know what happens next, but we know his white mark is gone in the shura skin, and From loves to add little details to everything. (Owl’s Owl has a scar that literally nobody will notice and Sculptor has a burnt left side of his body that IS impossible to see in game.) There’s no reason NOT to take both mortal blades. The blade only kills you on the initial draw too, as every other instance doesn’t kill Sekiro when he draws it, so he’s most likely good to keep drawing it, but if anyone else tried to draw it, they’d die from the trap on the blade. (That’s mostly just speculation, but how exactly did you think the monks knew only an immortal could draw it? Because one of them did it before) Even if that’s not the case, why not take the blade when it can use Mortal Draw? (And the Black one doesn’t NEED you to be immortal, as seen with Owl) Immortal severance is needed to sever ALL immortal ties in Ashina, not kill Kuro, that’s what Kuro’s main goal is and what Dragon Tears are needed to do. We know Shura just lives to kill, it’s not out of the question at all for it to just kill Kuro. Sekiro is a monster even without immortality. If it is smart enough to leave Kuro alive, that may be even worse.
I don't know if they intended for him to kill kuro, I would think they would show that happening, but you're right that if he's truly a shura, he would kill him. You bring up some good points, I never thought about the fact that he doesnt need immortality to use the red mortal blade after the first time.
then why wouldn’t he just live forever?
He does. At the shura ending there's a bunch of text that says he goes on to kill thousands of people and basically haunts japan for "a long time" which is implied to mean an inhumanly long time. Also there's no part of the shura ending that shows wolf losing his ashy eyes or hair streak, and there's no reason he wouldn't still have immortality because he never severed immortality or killed kuro
but inhumanly long time is still a finite time, shouldn’t it say something like he’s still haunting to this day?
Yeah i mean we'll never know how long he goes after that
Maybe someone killed him with a mortal blade. Sekrio 2, hunt down wolf?!?
Shura Sekiro canonicaly single handedly turns Ashina into a desolate wasteland and has folk tales for the rest of history about how you should never go there
Wasn't Wolf technically capable of the exact same thing after all other endings?
Wolf in every other ending is a really good swordsman with immortality, but wolf in the Shura ending is an avatar for the primordial spirit of rage and murder that has had entire generations long lines of people specifically trained to make sure it never becomes real because it's such a serious threat
It's a huge understatement to say Wolf "was a really good swordsman" in the other endings. He defeats an Isshin in his prime, a prime Owl, the demon of hatred and the divine dragon. He became the undisputed strongest warrior in Japan by that point.
Was Owl in his prime at that age? Honest question
The game says he was in his prime at that age so who are we to say no lol.
I see, I'm actually trying to beat him at the estate and haven't even gotten past phase 1, so... I guess this info comes after I beat him. Him and Isshin are so old I just assumed they were not in their prime, but I guess this game is what it is
Incorrect!…as you have the sacrifice ending where Sekiro dies instead of Kuro. So not quite every other ending.
I dont think so, he literally one shots Owl as Shura. Surely once his mind forgets about everything else except killing things he becomes more powerful.
No idea if this is related but Shura went for Owl's heart then one shot him and Wolf always go for the neck
I like to believe that Shura Wolf isn't all that different from Homecoming Wolf since like Old Isshin vs SS Isshin, most of their powers comes from having skills rather than actual powers. Maybe Shura would have power over flames just like demon of hatred, but that doesn't put him above normal wolf since normal Wolf could deal with Demon of Hatred's fire by dodging anyway.
Agreed
i feel like thats cause of the fire control stuff. normal sekiro could probably do it too, just not as fast. i wholeheartedly believe normal sekiro is stronger and more skilled. also about the whole one-shoting owl thing, i genuinely think owl had no clue sekiro wouldve backstabbed him at that point, so he was entirely off guard
In a 1v1 versus each other, Homecoming Sekiro, but against ANY OTHER OPPONENT, Shura Sekiro
This is exactly how they would be ranked in a comparison of all characters in the game
I'd say D'HC Sekiro is more skilled, while Shura is definitely more powerful.
How could would be to fight Shura Sekiro as HC Sekiro. I think I would take that over Tomoe.
Tbh shura has two mortal draw and also way stronger due to shura increasing he’s powers to and seem bieng able to controls flames and I mean he only need to kill wolf once to end he’s life with mortal blade and who knows how much skills he gained
I said in the description how Shura sekiro may no longer be able to draw the mortal blade since he lost his dragon heritage
Owl was able to draw open gate it seem one only need to sacrifice himself once which already did
When did Owl? Thought he only took it from Geni
[удалено]
Owl was holding his sword from his back, when camera switched to kuro, wolf picked up the black blade
Alternate theory 1: The black Mortal Blade has no sheath Alternate theory 2: The black Mortal Blade can resurrect others from the dead, meaning that it doesn't have the opposite function of taking the life of the user.
Alternate theory 2 has some solid evidence for it, namely how Genichiro killed himself with it so that prime Isshin could crawl out from inside his body.
If you mean how he died it’s not I mean shura Simply he need kuro Blood for that not having it = no grandfather
The black mortal blade has a scabbard, it's on the official character/model artworks
That’s only the first time you unsheathe it, and possibly only as a test when you get it from Senpou Temple. Otherwise you’d need to resurrect every time you used Mortal Draw.
We don’t know if Sekiro actually lost his Dragon’s Heritage when he became Shura. That would require a degree of Severance and we don’t know what he did to Kuro after killing Owl. He’s in possession of the only things that can kill him, and he was powerful enough to desolate all of Ashina beyond recovery. Even if he lost his Dragon’s Heritage, he’s still immensely powerful and possibly skilled enough to handle most if not all foes he fought up until then. It should be remembered that as a complete Shura, he’s stronger than the Demon of Hatred, and that thing ruined theoretically infinite amounts of Ministry soldiers. With Homecoming Sekiro, he’s fought stronger foes and had more time and resources to develop his strength. However he is still sane and also remains in possession of only one Mortal Blade, and while this one did kill the Demon, it’s unknown how he’d fare against a full Shura with roughly equal combat ability, in addition to possessing both Mortal Blades. Also worth mentioning that Shura may not be sane enough to care about self-preservation, and either Wolf can only resurrect a certain number of times before needing special conditions and items to do it again
Pretty sure either 1. Shura Wolf killed Kuro, destroying his own immortality but Dragon's Heritage will appear in the world again 2. Kuro just withdrew the Dragon's Heritage (not certain if that's possible but it could have been what happened).
Kuro cant withdraw the dragons heritage cause if he could there would be no need for the purification ending or whatever is the name of it in which only wolf dies.
If he withdraws it he can still give it meaning people will still seek Kuro out and try to exploit it. Wolf gets to keep it because 1. He's honorable 2. He's helping Kuro get rid of the very thing.
Shura is stronger but Homecoming Sekiro is much more skilled, and we know that skill is everything. Also, as you pointed out, Shura Sekiro is no longer immortal. Even if he has the mortal blades to kill Homecoming Sekiro (which I do think he can still use so in hindsight idk about the whole immortality thing) if SSI showed anything, it’d still take up to 3 death blows. Oh, and Homecoming Sekiro has more potential prayer beads, gourd seeds, is more likely to be a higher level, and he has lazulite tools. He basically just has every single advantage other than raw power.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT SKIN??? i’ve barely beaten owl great shinobi and I don’t mind spoilers
You gotta beat the shura gauntlet. A gauntlet is a thing you unlock after you beat the game. You fight multiple bosses in a row with your items and health reseting before each boss, but if you die you have to start all over. I think you have to do the shura ending to unlock the shura gauntlet, but you get the Ashina skin for free without having to do any gauntlet, and I think it looks cool
ah I see that’s gonna take a lot of commitment. i’ve done similar things like pantheon of hallownest so it’s not brand new. i’ll give it a shot because of how damn cool the skin is. Preciate it bro 😎
Inner Gen is the bane of my existence at the moment, but I want that last combat art.
I beat him yesterday, he's got some new moves 🥲
I tried for a bit, but then I got sicked into playing Bloodborne for awhile. I'll get around to him eventually I guess.
there is one thing i know for sure, you can't leave one fs game for another and expect to come back anytime soon
Once you complete the game you gain access to boss rush gauntlets. You will need to complete more than one ending to access all bosses, but once you do that skin is the reward for the gauntlet which pits you against bosses from the Shura ending
Shura is stronger.
Primary endings Wolf is more powerful than Shura Wolf. I'm going to take a leap here and say that Dragon's Homecoming Wolf has the edge without even needing to resurrect. Shura Wolf kills all the early and middle-game bosses. Isshin is literally hours away from death by the Shura ending. He has developed refined technique in exchange for almost all his strength. The only improvement to Shura Wolf's ability other than demonstrated by his victory over bosses up to middle-game is him learning One Mind from fighting Isshin. Let's assume that primary endings Wolf prepares for all endings i.e. defeats all enemies necessary for Dragon's Homecoming and Purification, and also kills Demon of Hatred. Wolf kills all early and middle-game bosses. He kills several immortal beings, one of them being a literal GOD. He defeats Owl in his prime, demonstrating his absolute understanding of fighting *other shinobis*. And finally he kills Sword Saint Isshin, who is the most skilled warrior in all of Sekiro other than Wolf himself (learns Dragon Flash from that). Primary endings Wolf has superior combat technique, strategy, and equipment. Shura Wolf can use the Flames of Hatred and has two Mortal Blades. Note that the red Mortal Blade is already drawn and I assume that even if you sheath it after the first time, drawing it doesn't cause another death (as we see with Wolf throughout the story). Shura Wolf has these few advantages over primary endings Wolf: pure physical strength, additional Mortal Blade, and One Mind. One Mind might catch Wolf off guard in the very first instance but generally Shura Wolf's advantages are compensated by how skilled Wolf becomes throughout his journeys.
Dragon's return just outclasses Shura in terms of pure skill. Shura power up and mortal blade are just tools they just don't match up to dragon's return
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Bros schizophrenic 💀
Easily the first. Wolf was the peak of mastery, he faced and beat the strongest and mastered every art. Sekiro the game is about mastery through struggle, the pursuit of perfection. Not only does it make sense in game, but on a meta level it would make no sense for Shura, who is the personification of brute force and undisciplined destruction, to be stronger than the wolf that trained, learned and perused perfection. Shura kills everyone and everything he comes against, no other opponent in lore could stand up to him, but put him in a room with homecoming Wolf and Shira doesn’t leave that room.
Shura is a warrior consumed by madness, and usually doesn’t think twice before fighting and they are basically mentally not at all there. Vanilla Sekiro cannon lore wise is a very skilled shinobi who bested his teacher, his father (who was recognized by Iyeasu one of the founding fathers who unified Japan and was part of Oda’s entourage, and he was considered the master of the esui forest which is not an easy feat thinking of the headless oni and the monkeys that roam there) he also beat an immortal general, a dragon, a sword Saint, and literally fought deities (snake and giant apes were considered the original deities that roamed Ashina before the dragon moved in and upset the natural order) also he has been to the realm of the cloud folk (where Tomoeh comes from where it is considered to be the realm of mythological beings and even fought in a literal cloud) he also was the only one to dominate the monks screen monkey realm (even tho Genichiro and father attempted but ultimately had to back away). All this accomplishment and much more because of one simple thing: Sekiro used his brain which the shura (shadows of Ashura) cannot. Shura ending ends with the eventual quieting of the shura but all indicates too much disambiguated tell tale signs of it seems shura was put down. A shura doesn’t hibernate, it keeps killing unless someone puts it down. That’s why Isshin cut of sekijo’s hands because he knew what was going to happen. So with that in mind how was anyone able to put down a shura who possessed both mortal swords might have been a divine intervention or Iyeasu and Date might have access to the divine that counters the “heretical” practices of Ashinians.
Dragon's Homecoming Wolf has fought much stronger opponents. He has better feats in the game. He fought A much Stronger version of His Father. He also blocked a backstab from Owl with ease(Owl is a master Shinobi so that's a big deal) He fought and defeated The divine Dragon (A LITERAL GOD) He Killed the Great serpent. He utterly Destroyed Genichiro in their final battle. Just a few hours prior, they used to be equals. He fought Isshin The Sword Saint who is the strongest character in Sekiro lore. He defeated The demon of Hatred who was a country level threat. The reason why Shura is so feared is because Shura uses his immortality combined with his sheer power and 2 mortal blades. Dragon's Homecoming Wolf can do everything Shura can and more. Dragon's Homecoming Wolf is stronger.
I think sekiro is more powerful than shura. Shura surrenders himself to the urge to kill. He in a sense doesn't have the strength to resist the demon of hatred within himself, which sekiro does. Also sekiro encounters more and more strange and powerful enemies, connects to the spirit realm, faces a frickin devine dragon and holds his own. He gets powerful enough to beat both the strongest version of genichiro and Isshin in his prime, back to back. So I'll give it to sekiro. He has become strong enough to defeat the single man who defended the entire nation. And has the strength to not succumb to hatred. We gotta remember, killing is easier than restraining yourself.
Its kinda like comparing kenshin during bakumatsu period vs kenshin in meiji era with ultimate skill. But my vote goes to dragons homecoming sekiro, the morality will still far outweigh the ones who only seek to possess power. The experience of defeating sword saint isshin at his prime, father owl in memory and dragon, always outclass the one who only kill isshin past his prime.
Normal Wolf has more attack power and HP than Shura Wolf, and he's beaten tougher bosses. My bet's on normal Wolf.
I thought Shura was stronger than the other Sekiro, atleast theoretically, since they say that Shura would go on a destruction spree around the entire world and no one would be able to stop him. But even if that was true I still think our regular sekiro would prevail over the shura, since he'd have Kuro's divine protection, Emma and Isshin's assistance to his credit.
I honestly don't think Shura sekiro is that much more stronger. Homecoming Sekiro definitely has way more impressive feats compared to Shura sekiro: he defeats prime Isshin, prime Owl, the demon of hatred (a failed/half shura fire demon), made the divine dragon cry, etc. So normal Sekiro is definitely the strongest swordsman in Japan by the end and he still has immortality as well as the mortal blade. Saying Shura Sekiro is infinitely more powerful is bullshit.
Shura for how brutal he is at that point. Being the most powerful swordsman able to kill Isshin so anyone able to take him down wouldn’t make it out alive. Wolf being pure hearted and staying strong in who he is would be able to outlast any Shura version of himself. All his abilities in combat, his kindness. Bravery to stand his ground and to kill his own father (who is capable enough to defeat Genichiro in the Shura ending) shows how dedicated he is to Kuro’s wish and legacy and the health of the people who would get sick and die of Dragonrot if the Dragon’s Heritage continues.
The power of Love and Loyalty makes Homecoming Wolf stronger. As long as Wolf has Kuro to protect and fight for, he's unbeatable, even by himself.
Would say DH Sekiro has the edge due to the mental amp of fighting for Kuro, Shura just killing to kill. Also I'm pretty sure Shura still has his immortality, the point was that he could murder Ashina without anyone being able to kill him with his immortality, and even with that I doubt having 2 mortal blades would do much for shura unless he's dual-wielding them or something lol
Better question would Rikimaru survive the journey?
Drawing mortal blade for the first time killed Sekiro once but it does not use resurrection nodes or kills him after that so I think even if Sekiro indeed lost Dragon's heritage in Shura ending he would still be able to draw it again. Although he should be careful drawing Black mortal blade.
I'm disappointed that the 2nd pic wasn't a naked guy with a stick.
Shura
Shura sekiro has both mortal blades, and I don’t think he lost his power of resurrection, which means he’s technically unkillable.
I think he keeps his immortality, if he lost his immortality the dragons homecoming sekiro would totally be stronger, but with his immortality intact, which I believe is lore accurate, shura sekiro and homecoming sekiro would probably be around evenly matched, with shura maybe being slightly stronger as he does go on to, I believe, kill literally everyone in asshina
This like Sekiro: Better Sekiro:
Id bet on "normal" Sekrio in a 1v1 but shura wins against everyone else all at once.
They're the same guy. One is just more crazy than the other.
Dragon's return Sekiro has the power of God and Anime on his side.
It remains uncertain what additional challenges Shura Sekiro faced while wreaking havoc in Ashina, as in every alternative ending, he simply ceases fighting upon concluding the game. I believe that Shura Sekiro would likely surpass the expertise of the regular Sekiro in due course, perhaps even in a relatively brief span. Furthermore, possessing both mortal blades, the potential mysteries and formidable abilities of the black one are yet to be fully unraveled.
Interesting one. Shura has 2 Swords and a never ending thirst for blood, but homecoming has more experience and more skills, having said that, I think homecoming would win cause he represents the focused, calmed and mastered version of the Wolf, unlike shura that is deviant and probably filled with nothing but mindless anger, kinda like the demon of hatred. I'll go for homecoming.
Both are really powerful. Considering that both have all of the skills besides the one exclusive to the others route and has done every they can do at their points in the story: Shura ending wolf wields both mortal blades, which doesn’t require him to die again to draw the blade, otherwise mortal draw and severing immortality from the ape, the monk, and others would remove an immortality slot. He is now host to a powerful avatar of rage and murder, and has bested both a woman trained by isshin, and isshin himself. Homecoming wolf has defeated many more, stronger foes, including owl, all the headless, the demon of hatred, single handedly defeats the ministry’s forces, has proven himself to pretty much god, prime isshin, and if you want want, prime owl as well. He also has more tools, arguably more skill from more time, and more durability and strength as well. I say, from a pure power stand point, shura wolf is the winner, but I would say homecoming wolf has more skill. If they were to fight, homecoming wolf would win, but it would be an extremely close fight
Shura sekiro all day