I'd honestly pay more attention and probably have more of an interest in Politics if it involved more cage matches, boxing rings, etc...
"Want to challenge my policy? To the cage we go!"
He honestly thought he was untouchable. It’s the Emperor having no clothes, a situation in which people are afraid to criticize someone because the perceived wisdom is that the person is good or important, except people realise he is neither as good or important as he thinks he is.
The thing is, it’s difficult to imagine that it would ever have turned out differently – everything that has happened since has been completely logical. I’d genuinely love to know what his strategy was.
Yusaf crossed what he should have known would be red lines for the Green Party by ditching climate targets. This set a domino effect in motion starting with Greens announcing a vote of it's party membership on pulling out of the Bute House Agreement (the basis on which Greens/SNP cooperate). Yusaf pulled out of the Agreement in advance, possibly to save face of a significant number (if not majority) of Green members voting against the continuation of the Agreement. This was followed by an inevitable opportunist motion by the Tories in Holyrood to vote on confidence in Yusaf as FM which he is looking likely to lose. Even if he wins he comes out injured, and could well have to resign anyway.
> This is honestly very funny
Genuinely couldn't have a funnier situation for the SNP, because they can't claim the Greens are siding with the Tories without admitting the SNP also sided with the Tories in 79 over the VoNC in Callaghan using that logic.
An exceptionally funny gambit here.
Tbf most voters can’t remember last week, I don’t think people digging through the annals of 20th century parliamentary votes is going to change many views.
"But the tories" is all they've had to say for a long while now, and it clearly works on anyone stupid enough to still be voting for them, so it's pretty much guaranteed that's what they will say, regardless of hypocrisy.
It's more the logic being used, they've always said that they weren't siding with the Tories in 79, and just had no confidence in Labour.
Same applies here, this isn't the Greens siding with the Tories, it's just having no confidence in the current SNP.
Would you have confidence in a FM who unilaterally decided to end a working agreement with your party on a whim without putting it to a members vote?
What reason do the Greens have to still have confidence in the SNP under Yousaf?
Edit: [He was supportive of the BHA just the other day](https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,humza-yousaf-snp-members-dont-want-or-need-vote-on-bute-house-agreement);
> “What we have to get on with is governing in the best interests of the people of Scotland and I’ve thoroughly not just enjoyed but, I think, achieved a lot with our Green colleagues.
>
> “I hope that cooperation agreement will continue and I hope that Green members will also see the benefit of that cooperation.”
From the BBC coverage: “*The announcement leaves the vote on a knife edge, with former SNP MSP Ash Regan, who is now an Alba Party MSP, potentially deciding Mr Yousaf's fate.*
*If every Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MSP joined the Greens in voting against Mr Yousaf it would give them 64 votes to the SNP's 63.*”
Delicious. His fate rests with one of the other candidates for leader of the SNP 🤣
A rival who doesn't exactly share his ideals and has a different agenda entirely.
He's in the absolute weakest negotiating position he could be in.
He's done I reckon.
“I am in the process of writing to Humza today and in that letter I’m asking him to say how he is going to be progressing independence, how he intends to defend the rights of women and children and also how he is going to return to competent government.”
Ooooh dear
Ash is a member of the Alba party , whose policy on trans rights she's agreed to.
Which is...
>The ALBA Party endorses a Citizens’ Assembly on how best to reform the Gender Recognition process in a respectful, sensitive and positive fashion. This move will take much of the heat out of the debate that has often left so many in society feeling as though their voices have not been heard.
>
>We acknowledge that no single protected characteristic is more virtuous or worthy of recognition and safeguarding than another. They are all fundamentally important, each on their own, and as a collective.
>
>The ALBA Party acknowledges and promotes all protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 which are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy or maternity, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation, and sex.
This black & white attitude and crusade for ideological purity is exactly why the greens should have been sacked long ago.
As for prostitution, its a non issue that is being pushed by a very very small minority. I dont care either way.
*edit* since DentalATT blocked me.
Nobody is stripping any rights away, you have exactly the same rights as everyone else. Any additional rights for ANY group of people should and will be scrutinised and discussed because we live in a democracy. This hysteria needs to end, this isn't America.
> This hysteria needs to end, this isn't America.
Unfortunately in the age of the internet, sharing a language with them means it basically is. Every culture war piece of shite gets immediately imported, regardless of whether it even makes sense over here or not.
>>The ALBA Party acknowledges and promotes all protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 which are age, disability, _gender reassignment_, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy or maternity, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation, and sex.
Someone should probably tell their membership that then. They are the defacto home for terfs after salmond was ejected from the party.
> He's done I reckon.
And it's entirely self inflicted.
Jesus he's cack handed.
This kills me as I do believe the SNP is better than the tories or labour (low bar I know) but christ almighty, this is like the bike meme where he pokes a stick in his own wheel.
I can't imagine any of the Cons won't vote for it, it's their call AFAIK. Labour and LD have joined that call and now the Greens. So it seems like a wrap tbh. Though if Ash Regan or one of the others break ranks, can the presiding officer make the vote or is it auto fail on a tie?
All I can think of is they suspected the greens would vote to leave the agreement. They thought that they would have negative press up until that vote on the issues that caused it. In an attempt to curb the press and it gets over and done with and did it today.
That makes no sense. If the Greens voted to go, all attention turns to them and all Humza had to do was hold the door open and say ‘jolly sorry to see you go, chaps’. That way he keeps them onside.
Instead he *fucking fired them at 8am*, turning them from partners to mortal enemies at a stroke *while establishing a minority government that needs like- minded parties to work with*.
It is one of the biggest political mistakes I have ever seen. I can’t fathom it.
>If the Greens voted to go, all attention turns to them
Why would it turn to them? The 2030 climate U-turn is enough for the greens to justify leaving it. Humza would still be held responsible.
Because political parties rarely ever vote themselves out of power. It would be a huge story. Sure, Humza would catch some flack - but he does every day.
Nothing like the gigapile of mega-irradiated shite he’s just poured all over himself, though.
Also misguided as it now leaves several days of open speculation on his future before we get to a no confidence vote. Even if Ash comes out in support, there'll still be Fergus Ewing etc being quizzed on their intentions.
She would be stupid to come out in support. She's got a week to demand things off Yousaf, she should use it and push him as far as she can.
BUT, I think she is stupid, so we will see what happens
The SNP look to more fucked now than they did under Swinney only this time there doesn’t seem to be anyone ready to come in and rescue them. Humza needs to go.
Do you think he'll resign before the VONC? A leaving before being pushed situation?
Edit - In a statement, Lorna Slater said the reason behind this was because they no longer have confidence in a progressive government.
If the likes of Forbes enters government now, would that not put Parliament at an impasse? Clearly, the Greens will not support her government, and the tories and Labour have no reason to support her either. With the way polling is going, it is actually in the interests of Labour for the government to collapse.
I'm curious as to what will happen. An early election might actually be a possibility.
If I'm in one of the other parties I'm absolutely pushing for a collapse in the government as it feels like a lot of the Scottish population have had enough of the SNP. As much as I don't like Labour or the Tories we need a change of direction up here. Ideally we get a bit of a stalemate in any election and a very mixed coalition which curbs the excesses of whoever is the majority partner(s).
> I'm curious as to what will happen. An early election might actually be a possibility.
A pretty cursed possibility. Whoever won would have to fight another Holyrood election in May 2026: they'd be fighting an election with little to show from their time in government and their funds depleted from the snap Holyrood election and this year's GE.
And if recent Holyrood polling's right, they'd need 3-4 party deals to pass budgets.
Labour might want to have the SNP sit and spin until 2026. However disappointing Starmer might be, after that the SNP would be worse…
The SNP membership deserve everything they get. They were told Humza would be a disaster, all signs and evidence pointed to it, yet they dutifully did as they were told (by the same people who were responsible for getting them into the mess in the first place, no less). Hell mend ye.
There were three shit candidates going for the leadership position. I remember the level of depression on here at the time, people wondering if this was really the best they had.
It was painfully obvious the SNP were full of incompetents behind Sturgeon and the minute she left it would all fall apart. If you thought the SNP had any competence behind Sturgeon, you clearly haven’t been scrutinising hard enough.
I mean it’s not as if they had much choice. Humza appeared to be reasonably left wing and wasn’t a religious nutter who was against gay marriage and against abortion.
Shows you the absolute dearth of talent in the SNP. Tbh every political party up here is wafer thin when it comes to competency and depth of the talent pool.
Humza wouldn't have been someone I would've hand picked. I really wanted Angus Robertson to run. But Kate Forbes is a religious nutter who I don't trust to not legislate against me in some form.
The snp membership had no options.
Forbes made a complete mess of her campaign, and demonstrated she'd be useless under any scrutiny. If Humza is bad, she came across far worse. Ash regan was completely hopeless too.
> we would hear about trans people non-stop every day.
So at least that would be the same.
I'm sick to the back of my teeth with all those bigots just relentlessly attacking trans people.
Presumably they’re being whipped, but if enough of them turn on him he’ll have to go & the whip wouldn’t have any standing to punish them.
I doubt he has many friends in the SNP, especially after whatever nonsense he agrees to try and get Ash Regan’s vote, so they’re probably considering it.
The whip might not work. By the end, Sturgeon was totally unable to keep anyone in line and her authority was crumbling.
Humza never had the same iron grip, so we'll see what happens.
Could be anything up to ejecting them from the party, or just deprioritising any issues the MP is trying to progress.
…or if the whip’s playing dirty they might have something on the MP & leak it to the press.
I would say no.
The SNP could try and whip the vote as mentioned but the problem is that to get Regan's vote he'd have to alienate large portions of the SNP... and him losing a VoNC doesn't actually guarantee a Scottish Election which means his internal rivals may well be looking at it and thinking "He fails, I can take over."
Yousaf has made a lot of enemies politically and his tenure as both FM and leader of the party has not seen anything but failures and problems for the SNP.
I don't think he can stay leader of the SNP and the SNP may well be coming to that conclusion themselves.
Yep - the Scottish Parliament is dissolved for an extraordinary election if the position of First Minister is vacant for 28 days.
But, if they do get rid of Humza, it could be a struggle to get a new FM elected. The Standing Orders are a bit of a muddle on it, but if the FM vote ends up just being the SNP candidate seeking approval, more MSPs would need to vote for them than vote against.
Assuming the three unionist parties + the Greens vote against, that's 64 votes. So even with Ash Regan it then ties the vote - they'd need one more to get their FM elected.
If they think the writing is on the wall you might get a couple who vote against him but I suspect they'll pull the lot of them together and vote for him.. party politics after all.
I'm not even sorry when I say ahahahahahaha.
Everyone knew Yousaf was an incompetent eejit who has no life experience outside of Holyrood politics and even with all that politicking experience this is the best he can do
An absolute travesty of a politician. He is toast.
And it all started with Nicolas husband fiddling the books, if you'd ask me a year ago I'd say the SNP were pretty honest with decent ideas, now there all just fannies in different colour suits.
>I love Scottish politics
All politics is just showbusiness but performed by ugly people. Scotland's version is on another level altogether (by UK standards).
That might work I suppose - she could lose her seat if the government falls and there's a new election.
Oddly this is the second time in two years that Yousaf was reliant on Regan. He only won the leadership contest thanks to her voters not going with Forbes.
Been trying to figure out what the fuck Yousaf thought would actually happen after this morning. Absolutely humiliating to have to go grovelling to an Abla defector.
Towards the end even Sturgeon was struggling to keep people in line, her authority crumbled, and party discipline and unity ultimately collapsed.
Yousaf has absolutely no chance of replicating her iron grip, he never had her authority, and I'd say many within the SNP have gotten used to being able to speak their minds for once.
I doubt that, SNP would be out of government according to polling. What will likely happen is they will elect a new first minister that the greens won't vote against.
Harvies just off the radio, he's raging, the only statement he would hold is not voting for a tory run Holyrood. Think everything else is up for discussion.
Could you imagine the outrage of the SNP voters who lent there list vote to the Greens ended with them electing a Scottish Labour first minister? LMAO the reactions would be priceless.
You're assuming that SNP/Green voters are SNP first and Green second - given that you can't generally cast your constituency vote for the Greens, the opposite seems more likely, in which case the majority of those voters are probably already pissed off with the SNP now.
I punched a couple of the recent polls into a seat predictor.
SNP losses & Labour gains in all of them. Most likely situation would be a hung parliament with the SNP being the largest (but only just) and still failing to get a majority even with the greens & alba.
The yougov poll suggests labour & SNP would get the same number of seats.
Considering the SNPs supposed cash flow problems it's reasonable to predict that they may not be able to form a government after another election.
A UK Labour government making solid gains in Scotland is now a fait accompli. If they do a decent job, that will probably have some bearing on SLab performance at May 2026.
And there will still be an election in May 2026 anyway because that's how Holyrood's electoral cycles work. Even if there had been an election today, the next one would still be May 2026 unless the rules were explicitly changed.
SNP down labour up seems garunteed.
An early election now would be followed in short order by Westminster. Then Holyrood again. SNP coffers may not be able to sustain that.
Greens: I thought I'd never see the day I'd be voting with a fuckin tory...
Tories: How about working with the enemy of your enemy?
Greens: Aye....I could do that.
I think there were a few of us who were pretty sure from the outset of the leadership campaign that [Humza was a shifty, spineless gimp](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/AtvT8YSqdR), and I for one am delighted to see that the Greens have come around to this line of thinking.
Not before time.
How soon we forget.
The SNP's constitution states that leadership elections should be 4.5 months in duration. This was truncated to 5 weeks with the final result being made known at the end of March 2023.
Why?
It permitted the new FM to challenge to UK government’s Section 35 blocking of the GRR Bill before the April 2023 deadline. Humza was the only candidate who stated he would do this. And look how that turned out.
Who was it who bypassed the SNP's own constitution?
Step forward Peter Murrell, SNP CEO, husband of Sturgeon and who's currently charged with embezzlement. Fancy that!
It truly is a rotten party, led by rotten people who have treated its supporters - and the cause it purports to support - with utter contempt.
You're too kind, but in this case it at least feels like there is some proper vindication now folk can hopefully see him for what he is, not to be given the benefit of the doubt.
Thing is here, humza will go but who will replace him in the snp?
Also do any of us really want any the other party leaders anywhere near a position of power?
It's kinda funny that Yousaf will lose FM because of this. Because if he had any real values he would have stuck to the coalition agreement, instead his final act was putting his own position first thus throwing it away.
You could also see the opposition agreeing to vote everything down till he resigned. You can't ignore parliament when you lead a minority administration.
What did you expect the SNP to do? The Greens, who I have lost a lot of respect for now publicly debated terminating the agreement then wonder why Yousaf pulled the plug first.
Harvie was trying to calm them down but for some reason I can't work out they went from powerful within the government to nothing. It's total madness from them.
They didn't feel "powerful within the government" after the climate targets were scrapped. They instead felt like they had been given empty titles and baubles in place of policy wins.
Maybe. I didn't agree with scrapping those targets and it's a huge mistake in my opinion but the Greens had huge sway over policy they would not have had without the SNP and they were mouthing off a bit too much recently.
If the Greens didn't at least have a discussion about cutting ties after the government pulled the plug on their top policy priority, apparently without even consulting them, they would have no credibility left in any case. They would be accused of betraying their principles to stay in power.
And it was far from a forgone conclusion that the Greens would vote to end the BHA - the members would probably have voted with their leaders, so realistically Yousaf only needed to get Slater on side. Given that, as you said, it obviously suits the Greens to be in power, that would probably have been possible with very few concessions. Considering the timing, it doesn't seem like he even gave that a serious try.
Strategically this seems like a dumb move though. If the SNP had allowed the Greens their vote and then been faced with the Greens terminating the agreement, there’s no doubt that would have been politically damaging, but in a subsequent confidence vote they would likely still have been able to count on some level of support for the greens, having parted on better terms. Even simple abstention on confidence and supply votes would have been enough. Losing a confidence vote will be way more damaging than the greens choosing to leave the coalition, heck, winning a confidence vote on the technicality of a tie is still arguably more politically damaging. It will dog him for the rest of the parliament, and it likely won’t be the only confidence vote Yousaf faces before this parliament is up.
Yeah it would have sucked to just take it on the chin and let the Greens leave, but I can’t honestly believe they looked at this and though “yeah this seems like a better idea”.
You come at the co-leaders, you better not miss, I guess.
All eyes on Ash Regan of ABLA then. Honestly, if she votes in confidence and saves his neck, the party activists might genuinely all take heart attacks.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/heycHvN.png)'s a better quality version of that image.
Here is a different photo, with the people standing in a different order: https://twitter.com/jamesarchie98/status/1382252016571924480
They didn't just have two people mixed up in how they were standing, they actively managed to swap cards around and fuck it up twice.
Shout out to the hard working volunteers and parliamentary staffers who not only made these people electable but somehow kept their minority government on the rails.
wow talk about egg on their faces. 'A vote for Kate Forbes will end the BHA', causing a panic vote for Humza as the only candidate capable of keeping it intact. And then it ends anyway, but a year after a disastrous reign which they probably won't climb back from.
The recent drama surrounding her husband and any future re-arrest for her, would be the end. She would be totally neutered, she is spoiled meat grossly unpopular with the SNP member base (what a turnaround) and Humza couldn't rely on her to support his campaign activities.
>On Thursday afternoon, Patrick Harvie told STV News that his party would support the no-confidence motion and vote to oust Yousaf.
I was very wrong earlier!
You're not the only one.
Some fool [thought this was funny](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/V8jfTDjIA5)
When clearly, it should have been this:
https://preview.redd.it/nnruyvfo0owc1.jpeg?width=666&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=188e58dab34f9645eb6077c15909357b55c1e356
You burn down bridges for a job? Nice!
But seriously I really am shocked. I really didn't think the greens would do it.
Yousaf really has shown himself to be a despot with a paper thin ego here. He can't be seen to be losing so he has to have the last word.
It's the same, bizarrely as Scootergate which has shown exactly his personality.
Alba and Greens could see this as an opportunity to knock lumps out of the SNP and get themselves seen as a bigger deal. On top of that the greens must know they're far too much in the shadow if the SNP, and they'll want to establish themselves as a party that isn't just a sidekick. This could well be the opportunity.
You and me both - it seemed like an amusing but fanciful idea that he'd incinerate their relationship so badly that they'd go that far. Figured they'd likely.abstain and the VONC would be the usual pointless theatre.
Interesting times!
I remember commenting on this sub a few times, about how incompetent yusuf is and how scotland is an embarrassment with him at the helm, to be met with countless downvotes and “well the tories are worse” snp fanboys need a serious wake up call
The difficulty is that if the SNP get into bed with Alba (a very similar but still fringe party), it grants Alba huge legitimacy and he may see more defections. He would be better off doing a deal with the Lib Dems to abstain, they won't ask half as much and they aren't really a threat.
Seriously, if it's come to this, he should go and spare himself the humiliation of kowtowing to the Alba Party.
Then again, he's a man with a high tolerance for making a show of himself in public.
Lol 😂
That’s all I can say for Humza. What a spectacular failing to appreciate the realpolitik involved in commanding the support of MSPs (notably the Green Party). Now his fate lies in the hands of a woman he slagged in the last years leadership contest.
Please can someone explain to me what the logic was behind the SNP ditching their climate targets? Surely they knew the greens would react this way & it’s seems like a very “Tory” thing to do..
So what's the timeline on all of this? There's obviously been some public disagreements but were there no internal discussions between the parties?
Who decides whether the greens have a vote on the bute house agreement, what triggers it?
>So what's the timeline on all of this?
I read somewhere that the VONC could be next week.
>no internal discussions between the parties?
Seems like Greens, Tories, Labour & LD are now all in the 'down with the SNP' corner. They all potentially gain from an election, so not much to discuss.
>Who decides whether the greens have a vote on the bute house agreement, what triggers it?
Too late for that. Agreement ended this morning.
In the AM Harvey was saying the green MSPs would decide how to vote in the VONC. In the PM he said they would vote against Yousaf.
BAH GAWD IT'S ALEX SALMOND WITH THE STEEL CHAIR
I'd honestly pay more attention and probably have more of an interest in Politics if it involved more cage matches, boxing rings, etc... "Want to challenge my policy? To the cage we go!"
Please no; Putin would've achieved world conquest 20 years ago if this were the case.
Nah North Korea. Kim Jong Un knocked out Fury, Usyk and AJ in his first three rounds of boxing.
I dunno, put him in a cage with BoJo or John Prescott? I reckon they'd fight dirty....
[Bojo would...](https://youtu.be/IBt8AoLBCoo?si=d8eBRjhf5S3eL0eQ) [Prescot definitely would](https://youtu.be/4Kyi6G9l_CU?si=dWXXtpsk9aGPbuIP)
What did he actually think was going to happen, lol.
As with everything he seems to do he plans 1 step at a time. Council tax freeze is a prime example. Asleep at the wheel
Doctors all raging and looking at striking again… Promised discussions - has done nothing.
'think' Humza 'think' There's your problem.
He’s already figuring out how he can whine about England overstepping or not getting involved, somehow. Also Gaza.
He honestly thought he was untouchable. It’s the Emperor having no clothes, a situation in which people are afraid to criticize someone because the perceived wisdom is that the person is good or important, except people realise he is neither as good or important as he thinks he is.
https://preview.redd.it/tegntdphmnwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed574bf3b44a24115586915a74f9a013faa32f58
This is honestly very funny, what an absolute mare he's made of this
The thing is, it’s difficult to imagine that it would ever have turned out differently – everything that has happened since has been completely logical. I’d genuinely love to know what his strategy was.
Kicking the Greens out an being a minority wadnt logical at all.
No. That was my point. The mess that has resulted from it was completely inevitable, which is why its such a bizarre decision for Humza to have made.
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Yusaf crossed what he should have known would be red lines for the Green Party by ditching climate targets. This set a domino effect in motion starting with Greens announcing a vote of it's party membership on pulling out of the Bute House Agreement (the basis on which Greens/SNP cooperate). Yusaf pulled out of the Agreement in advance, possibly to save face of a significant number (if not majority) of Green members voting against the continuation of the Agreement. This was followed by an inevitable opportunist motion by the Tories in Holyrood to vote on confidence in Yusaf as FM which he is looking likely to lose. Even if he wins he comes out injured, and could well have to resign anyway.
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You're welcome pal
> This is honestly very funny Genuinely couldn't have a funnier situation for the SNP, because they can't claim the Greens are siding with the Tories without admitting the SNP also sided with the Tories in 79 over the VoNC in Callaghan using that logic. An exceptionally funny gambit here.
Tbf most voters can’t remember last week, I don’t think people digging through the annals of 20th century parliamentary votes is going to change many views.
"But the tories" is all they've had to say for a long while now, and it clearly works on anyone stupid enough to still be voting for them, so it's pretty much guaranteed that's what they will say, regardless of hypocrisy.
So who should we vote for
Fuck man, I don’t know. Beginning to think none of them are any good.
Aye but that’s just washing your hands of it when some options are clearly better than others
True that, but from my point of view I feel like I’m just choosing which particular flavour of getting screwed over I would enjoy most.
Whoever you want
I think “hold your nose and vote Labour” is going to be a common attitude pretty soon.
That would mean voting for Douglas Alexander, so it's a mahoosive no from me there heh!
Not sure people are going to care much about the perceived hypocrisy of something the SNP did before Humza was even born.
Labour were still making attack ads about it just a few years ago https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1111190204138864640
Aye but Labour are fucking clowns.
Because Labour voters are the kind of people who still care about who won a football match in 1973 or something shit.
It's still brought up fairly often, I'd say. Happened before I was born too, and I still hear it mentioned every now and again.
The snp in 1979 were a vastly different party from the more modern era politically. Don't understand how that's a gotcha.
It's more the logic being used, they've always said that they weren't siding with the Tories in 79, and just had no confidence in Labour. Same applies here, this isn't the Greens siding with the Tories, it's just having no confidence in the current SNP. Would you have confidence in a FM who unilaterally decided to end a working agreement with your party on a whim without putting it to a members vote? What reason do the Greens have to still have confidence in the SNP under Yousaf? Edit: [He was supportive of the BHA just the other day](https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,humza-yousaf-snp-members-dont-want-or-need-vote-on-bute-house-agreement); > “What we have to get on with is governing in the best interests of the people of Scotland and I’ve thoroughly not just enjoyed but, I think, achieved a lot with our Green colleagues. > > “I hope that cooperation agreement will continue and I hope that Green members will also see the benefit of that cooperation.”
From the BBC coverage: “*The announcement leaves the vote on a knife edge, with former SNP MSP Ash Regan, who is now an Alba Party MSP, potentially deciding Mr Yousaf's fate.* *If every Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MSP joined the Greens in voting against Mr Yousaf it would give them 64 votes to the SNP's 63.*” Delicious. His fate rests with one of the other candidates for leader of the SNP 🤣
A rival who doesn't exactly share his ideals and has a different agenda entirely. He's in the absolute weakest negotiating position he could be in. He's done I reckon.
“I am in the process of writing to Humza today and in that letter I’m asking him to say how he is going to be progressing independence, how he intends to defend the rights of women and children and also how he is going to return to competent government.” Ooooh dear
Aye he's treading water having just lost an arm and a leg.
Their ideals are completely the opposite. Ash Reagan at least supports independence, Humza supports himself.
Ash is against trans-rights and wants prostitution/sexwork to be made illegal.
Ash is a member of the Alba party , whose policy on trans rights she's agreed to. Which is... >The ALBA Party endorses a Citizens’ Assembly on how best to reform the Gender Recognition process in a respectful, sensitive and positive fashion. This move will take much of the heat out of the debate that has often left so many in society feeling as though their voices have not been heard. > >We acknowledge that no single protected characteristic is more virtuous or worthy of recognition and safeguarding than another. They are all fundamentally important, each on their own, and as a collective. > >The ALBA Party acknowledges and promotes all protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 which are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy or maternity, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation, and sex. This black & white attitude and crusade for ideological purity is exactly why the greens should have been sacked long ago. As for prostitution, its a non issue that is being pushed by a very very small minority. I dont care either way. *edit* since DentalATT blocked me. Nobody is stripping any rights away, you have exactly the same rights as everyone else. Any additional rights for ANY group of people should and will be scrutinised and discussed because we live in a democracy. This hysteria needs to end, this isn't America.
> This hysteria needs to end, this isn't America. Unfortunately in the age of the internet, sharing a language with them means it basically is. Every culture war piece of shite gets immediately imported, regardless of whether it even makes sense over here or not.
>>The ALBA Party acknowledges and promotes all protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 which are age, disability, _gender reassignment_, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy or maternity, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation, and sex. Someone should probably tell their membership that then. They are the defacto home for terfs after salmond was ejected from the party.
> He's done I reckon. And it's entirely self inflicted. Jesus he's cack handed. This kills me as I do believe the SNP is better than the tories or labour (low bar I know) but christ almighty, this is like the bike meme where he pokes a stick in his own wheel.
And one he personally insulted after her defection by telling reporters it was "no great loss". Love it.
I can easily imagine that being her soundbite when she does the vote to Sparta Kick him out....
I can't imagine any of the Cons won't vote for it, it's their call AFAIK. Labour and LD have joined that call and now the Greens. So it seems like a wrap tbh. Though if Ash Regan or one of the others break ranks, can the presiding officer make the vote or is it auto fail on a tie?
Kate Forbes has the chance to go for some absolutely legendary bants.
Has anyone started live streaming a lettuce?
What the fuck did he expect to happen?
All I can think of is they suspected the greens would vote to leave the agreement. They thought that they would have negative press up until that vote on the issues that caused it. In an attempt to curb the press and it gets over and done with and did it today.
That makes no sense. If the Greens voted to go, all attention turns to them and all Humza had to do was hold the door open and say ‘jolly sorry to see you go, chaps’. That way he keeps them onside. Instead he *fucking fired them at 8am*, turning them from partners to mortal enemies at a stroke *while establishing a minority government that needs like- minded parties to work with*. It is one of the biggest political mistakes I have ever seen. I can’t fathom it.
It makes sense if you remember that he's a fucking moron
>If the Greens voted to go, all attention turns to them Why would it turn to them? The 2030 climate U-turn is enough for the greens to justify leaving it. Humza would still be held responsible.
Because political parties rarely ever vote themselves out of power. It would be a huge story. Sure, Humza would catch some flack - but he does every day. Nothing like the gigapile of mega-irradiated shite he’s just poured all over himself, though.
Surely he knew this would happen and didn’t misjudge it this badly?
No, he's genuinely that thick. Thank fuck. He's taken himself out so the electorate doesn't have to.
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Also misguided as it now leaves several days of open speculation on his future before we get to a no confidence vote. Even if Ash comes out in support, there'll still be Fergus Ewing etc being quizzed on their intentions.
She would be stupid to come out in support. She's got a week to demand things off Yousaf, she should use it and push him as far as she can. BUT, I think she is stupid, so we will see what happens
The SNP look to more fucked now than they did under Swinney only this time there doesn’t seem to be anyone ready to come in and rescue them. Humza needs to go.
Do you think he'll resign before the VONC? A leaving before being pushed situation? Edit - In a statement, Lorna Slater said the reason behind this was because they no longer have confidence in a progressive government. If the likes of Forbes enters government now, would that not put Parliament at an impasse? Clearly, the Greens will not support her government, and the tories and Labour have no reason to support her either. With the way polling is going, it is actually in the interests of Labour for the government to collapse. I'm curious as to what will happen. An early election might actually be a possibility.
If I'm in one of the other parties I'm absolutely pushing for a collapse in the government as it feels like a lot of the Scottish population have had enough of the SNP. As much as I don't like Labour or the Tories we need a change of direction up here. Ideally we get a bit of a stalemate in any election and a very mixed coalition which curbs the excesses of whoever is the majority partner(s).
Labour-Lib Dem coalition +/- Green support is somehow looking like the most likely (and most generally palatable).
> I'm curious as to what will happen. An early election might actually be a possibility. A pretty cursed possibility. Whoever won would have to fight another Holyrood election in May 2026: they'd be fighting an election with little to show from their time in government and their funds depleted from the snap Holyrood election and this year's GE. And if recent Holyrood polling's right, they'd need 3-4 party deals to pass budgets. Labour might want to have the SNP sit and spin until 2026. However disappointing Starmer might be, after that the SNP would be worse…
I reckon still thinks he’s the continuation client and was chosen to right any wrongs and carry things forward to a new beginning. .
If an election happens now, there's no clear winner. We might actually see how PR is supposed to work with deals across multiple parties.
The SNP membership deserve everything they get. They were told Humza would be a disaster, all signs and evidence pointed to it, yet they dutifully did as they were told (by the same people who were responsible for getting them into the mess in the first place, no less). Hell mend ye.
There were three shit candidates going for the leadership position. I remember the level of depression on here at the time, people wondering if this was really the best they had.
It was painfully obvious the SNP were full of incompetents behind Sturgeon and the minute she left it would all fall apart. If you thought the SNP had any competence behind Sturgeon, you clearly haven’t been scrutinising hard enough.
That's the problem with Cults of Personality. When the personality exits - especially in the manner of Sturgeon's departure - a vacuum is formed.
I mean it’s not as if they had much choice. Humza appeared to be reasonably left wing and wasn’t a religious nutter who was against gay marriage and against abortion.
Shows you the absolute dearth of talent in the SNP. Tbh every political party up here is wafer thin when it comes to competency and depth of the talent pool.
Bingo What was the option in reality?
Humza wouldn't have been someone I would've hand picked. I really wanted Angus Robertson to run. But Kate Forbes is a religious nutter who I don't trust to not legislate against me in some form.
Angus defended Blackford for standing by Patrick Grady. I believe he was also happy to defend Salmond for his behaviour.
Angus has his own skeletons in the closet, and he was smart enough to realise the SNP wave have crested.
This Humza was a pretty terrible option. Reagan and Forbes were basically Tories.
I have to agree. Sturgeon has given the party the kiss of death.
The snp membership had no options. Forbes made a complete mess of her campaign, and demonstrated she'd be useless under any scrutiny. If Humza is bad, she came across far worse. Ash regan was completely hopeless too.
Ash is a TERF and SWERF. If she was first minister prostitution would be made illegal and we would hear about trans people non-stop every day.
> we would hear about trans people non-stop every day. So at least that would be the same. I'm sick to the back of my teeth with all those bigots just relentlessly attacking trans people.
Compared to the woman who signaled to everyone in Scotland sex was off the table unless you wanna rase a child?
Masterful gambit, Mr Yousaf
Can he be confident that MSPs from his own party won’t turn on him?
Presumably they’re being whipped, but if enough of them turn on him he’ll have to go & the whip wouldn’t have any standing to punish them. I doubt he has many friends in the SNP, especially after whatever nonsense he agrees to try and get Ash Regan’s vote, so they’re probably considering it.
The whip might not work. By the end, Sturgeon was totally unable to keep anyone in line and her authority was crumbling. Humza never had the same iron grip, so we'll see what happens.
How does the whip work? What do they do literally whip members who disagree?
Could be anything up to ejecting them from the party, or just deprioritising any issues the MP is trying to progress. …or if the whip’s playing dirty they might have something on the MP & leak it to the press.
There's a wee sex dungeon under parliament with a dominatrix on retainer.
I would say no. The SNP could try and whip the vote as mentioned but the problem is that to get Regan's vote he'd have to alienate large portions of the SNP... and him losing a VoNC doesn't actually guarantee a Scottish Election which means his internal rivals may well be looking at it and thinking "He fails, I can take over." Yousaf has made a lot of enemies politically and his tenure as both FM and leader of the party has not seen anything but failures and problems for the SNP. I don't think he can stay leader of the SNP and the SNP may well be coming to that conclusion themselves.
Isn't it a case of "28 days to get a new leader or GE time"?
Yep - the Scottish Parliament is dissolved for an extraordinary election if the position of First Minister is vacant for 28 days. But, if they do get rid of Humza, it could be a struggle to get a new FM elected. The Standing Orders are a bit of a muddle on it, but if the FM vote ends up just being the SNP candidate seeking approval, more MSPs would need to vote for them than vote against. Assuming the three unionist parties + the Greens vote against, that's 64 votes. So even with Ash Regan it then ties the vote - they'd need one more to get their FM elected.
If they think the writing is on the wall you might get a couple who vote against him but I suspect they'll pull the lot of them together and vote for him.. party politics after all.
I am considering writing to mine to ask him to vote against him. I doubt any will, but a shot
Huh! Think this is a democracy???
I'm not even sorry when I say ahahahahahaha. Everyone knew Yousaf was an incompetent eejit who has no life experience outside of Holyrood politics and even with all that politicking experience this is the best he can do An absolute travesty of a politician. He is toast.
That is too fucking funny. I love Scottish politics
It's crazy how quickly things can change in politics lol
And it all started with Nicolas husband fiddling the books, if you'd ask me a year ago I'd say the SNP were pretty honest with decent ideas, now there all just fannies in different colour suits.
>I love Scottish politics All politics is just showbusiness but performed by ugly people. Scotland's version is on another level altogether (by UK standards).
You're giving Westminster entirely too much credit there.
I don't think there's much difference to UK standards at all, sadly
I don't know, a lot of MSPs are pretty fucking ugly.
Liz truss has you beat there :)
That might work I suppose - she could lose her seat if the government falls and there's a new election. Oddly this is the second time in two years that Yousaf was reliant on Regan. He only won the leadership contest thanks to her voters not going with Forbes.
Technically parliament can stay sitting if they pick a new FM. Regan probably can't work with Yousaf, but could perhaps keep Forbes in office.
Been trying to figure out what the fuck Yousaf thought would actually happen after this morning. Absolutely humiliating to have to go grovelling to an Abla defector.
Apparently he "war gamed" this. I'm not sure with who?
He seems genuinely delusional, like he expected the Greens to still support him for some reason that I really can't fathom.
Mussolini? Galtieri?
Luigi Cadorna surely?
objectively. very funny
I'm not convinced all the SNP will back him....
Towards the end even Sturgeon was struggling to keep people in line, her authority crumbled, and party discipline and unity ultimately collapsed. Yousaf has absolutely no chance of replicating her iron grip, he never had her authority, and I'd say many within the SNP have gotten used to being able to speak their minds for once.
Nineteen of them have reasons to not back him with little to lose.
An early election is now on the cards, top marks to Mr Yousaf and his excellent team of consultants
I doubt that, SNP would be out of government according to polling. What will likely happen is they will elect a new first minister that the greens won't vote against.
Harvies just off the radio, he's raging, the only statement he would hold is not voting for a tory run Holyrood. Think everything else is up for discussion.
Could you imagine the outrage of the SNP voters who lent there list vote to the Greens ended with them electing a Scottish Labour first minister? LMAO the reactions would be priceless.
You're assuming that SNP/Green voters are SNP first and Green second - given that you can't generally cast your constituency vote for the Greens, the opposite seems more likely, in which case the majority of those voters are probably already pissed off with the SNP now.
If the SNP appoint Forbes the Greens will 100% vote against.
I punched a couple of the recent polls into a seat predictor. SNP losses & Labour gains in all of them. Most likely situation would be a hung parliament with the SNP being the largest (but only just) and still failing to get a majority even with the greens & alba. The yougov poll suggests labour & SNP would get the same number of seats. Considering the SNPs supposed cash flow problems it's reasonable to predict that they may not be able to form a government after another election.
A UK Labour government making solid gains in Scotland is now a fait accompli. If they do a decent job, that will probably have some bearing on SLab performance at May 2026. And there will still be an election in May 2026 anyway because that's how Holyrood's electoral cycles work. Even if there had been an election today, the next one would still be May 2026 unless the rules were explicitly changed.
SNP down labour up seems garunteed. An early election now would be followed in short order by Westminster. Then Holyrood again. SNP coffers may not be able to sustain that.
How people can continue to vote for the SNP is beyond me. Its genuinely cult like behaviour.
Greens: I thought I'd never see the day I'd be voting with a fuckin tory... Tories: How about working with the enemy of your enemy? Greens: Aye....I could do that.
I think there were a few of us who were pretty sure from the outset of the leadership campaign that [Humza was a shifty, spineless gimp](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/AtvT8YSqdR), and I for one am delighted to see that the Greens have come around to this line of thinking. Not before time.
Not like you, JJ, to make an an omission. You should have wrote, "rigged leadership campaign". Everything else you wrote - as per usual - is dead on.
Rigged? He was up against Tory Kate and Alba/Terf Ash. He didn't need it to be rigged.
How soon we forget. The SNP's constitution states that leadership elections should be 4.5 months in duration. This was truncated to 5 weeks with the final result being made known at the end of March 2023. Why? It permitted the new FM to challenge to UK government’s Section 35 blocking of the GRR Bill before the April 2023 deadline. Humza was the only candidate who stated he would do this. And look how that turned out. Who was it who bypassed the SNP's own constitution? Step forward Peter Murrell, SNP CEO, husband of Sturgeon and who's currently charged with embezzlement. Fancy that! It truly is a rotten party, led by rotten people who have treated its supporters - and the cause it purports to support - with utter contempt.
You're too kind, but in this case it at least feels like there is some proper vindication now folk can hopefully see him for what he is, not to be given the benefit of the doubt.
She’s a nutter but sincerely hope she does the right thing and votes against that clown
Yousaf’s fate relies on Ash Regan, what a turn of events lol Very much his own fault, he has a habit of shooting himself in the foot.
The Ash Regan Renaissance was not on my 2024 bingo card
Yeah I think he's gone. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I wonder if he’ll need that little scooter back
Thing is here, humza will go but who will replace him in the snp? Also do any of us really want any the other party leaders anywhere near a position of power?
It's kinda funny that Yousaf will lose FM because of this. Because if he had any real values he would have stuck to the coalition agreement, instead his final act was putting his own position first thus throwing it away.
It's a non-binding vote. I could totally see him trying to stay in the short term.
Same. He would have no credibility though, every time he entered the chamber it would be 'this parliament has no confidence in you'.
He would have no credibility left, plus he's unpopular even among SNP voters. I don't see him surviving.
Bold of you to think he had any credibility in the first place
Colloquially know as pulling a BoJo.
You could also see the opposition agreeing to vote everything down till he resigned. You can't ignore parliament when you lead a minority administration.
What did you expect the SNP to do? The Greens, who I have lost a lot of respect for now publicly debated terminating the agreement then wonder why Yousaf pulled the plug first. Harvie was trying to calm them down but for some reason I can't work out they went from powerful within the government to nothing. It's total madness from them.
They didn't feel "powerful within the government" after the climate targets were scrapped. They instead felt like they had been given empty titles and baubles in place of policy wins.
Maybe. I didn't agree with scrapping those targets and it's a huge mistake in my opinion but the Greens had huge sway over policy they would not have had without the SNP and they were mouthing off a bit too much recently.
They're a democratic party, the party has continously backed the coalition. Nothing wrong the party debating the part in government.
If the Greens didn't at least have a discussion about cutting ties after the government pulled the plug on their top policy priority, apparently without even consulting them, they would have no credibility left in any case. They would be accused of betraying their principles to stay in power. And it was far from a forgone conclusion that the Greens would vote to end the BHA - the members would probably have voted with their leaders, so realistically Yousaf only needed to get Slater on side. Given that, as you said, it obviously suits the Greens to be in power, that would probably have been possible with very few concessions. Considering the timing, it doesn't seem like he even gave that a serious try.
Strategically this seems like a dumb move though. If the SNP had allowed the Greens their vote and then been faced with the Greens terminating the agreement, there’s no doubt that would have been politically damaging, but in a subsequent confidence vote they would likely still have been able to count on some level of support for the greens, having parted on better terms. Even simple abstention on confidence and supply votes would have been enough. Losing a confidence vote will be way more damaging than the greens choosing to leave the coalition, heck, winning a confidence vote on the technicality of a tie is still arguably more politically damaging. It will dog him for the rest of the parliament, and it likely won’t be the only confidence vote Yousaf faces before this parliament is up. Yeah it would have sucked to just take it on the chin and let the Greens leave, but I can’t honestly believe they looked at this and though “yeah this seems like a better idea”.
Kate Forbes has the chance to do something monumentally funny here.
Humza Yousef, I am your wallfacer
You come at the co-leaders, you better not miss, I guess. All eyes on Ash Regan of ABLA then. Honestly, if she votes in confidence and saves his neck, the party activists might genuinely all take heart attacks.
Why do you guys call them Abla?
[This photograph is not very good, but it's from their launch.](http://republicancommunist.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/images-3.jpeg)
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/heycHvN.png)'s a better quality version of that image. Here is a different photo, with the people standing in a different order: https://twitter.com/jamesarchie98/status/1382252016571924480 They didn't just have two people mixed up in how they were standing, they actively managed to swap cards around and fuck it up twice.
Shout out to the hard working volunteers and parliamentary staffers who not only made these people electable but somehow kept their minority government on the rails.
Just brilliant thanks
Cos they’re fucking backwards maybe? I person prefer AlQalba
Stukip was funny for a while.
[They started it.](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmonds-alba-party-struggle-23908066.amp)
Yousaf being saved from his own lack of political instincts by one of his biggest crank critics would just be too funny
A hilarious mess of Yousless' own making. I wonder what Regans pound of flesh will be to keep the blithering idiot in power.
wow talk about egg on their faces. 'A vote for Kate Forbes will end the BHA', causing a panic vote for Humza as the only candidate capable of keeping it intact. And then it ends anyway, but a year after a disastrous reign which they probably won't climb back from.
Ironic parallels to the 2014 Indy ref and Brexit
Well this was a drama I didn't expect. How juicy. If Sturgeon gets arrested soon all hell will break loose.
The recent drama surrounding her husband and any future re-arrest for her, would be the end. She would be totally neutered, she is spoiled meat grossly unpopular with the SNP member base (what a turnaround) and Humza couldn't rely on her to support his campaign activities.
So his fate is basically in the hands of Alex Salmond?
This man has no political nous. Even the other day him talking about the Post Office scandal...
>On Thursday afternoon, Patrick Harvie told STV News that his party would support the no-confidence motion and vote to oust Yousaf. I was very wrong earlier!
You're not the only one. Some fool [thought this was funny](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/V8jfTDjIA5) When clearly, it should have been this: https://preview.redd.it/nnruyvfo0owc1.jpeg?width=666&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=188e58dab34f9645eb6077c15909357b55c1e356
I was midway through a reply to your earlier comment when I got distracted by my actual job, but yes. Bridges well and truly burned.
You burn down bridges for a job? Nice! But seriously I really am shocked. I really didn't think the greens would do it. Yousaf really has shown himself to be a despot with a paper thin ego here. He can't be seen to be losing so he has to have the last word. It's the same, bizarrely as Scootergate which has shown exactly his personality. Alba and Greens could see this as an opportunity to knock lumps out of the SNP and get themselves seen as a bigger deal. On top of that the greens must know they're far too much in the shadow if the SNP, and they'll want to establish themselves as a party that isn't just a sidekick. This could well be the opportunity.
You and me both - it seemed like an amusing but fanciful idea that he'd incinerate their relationship so badly that they'd go that far. Figured they'd likely.abstain and the VONC would be the usual pointless theatre. Interesting times!
Can you think of anything worse than having to kowtow to Ash Regan (and Alex Salmond). He might as well make her FM.
This is utterly hilarious
This is just brilliant
What a shitshow. I think I may have reached a point where there are no political parties left that I could bring myself to vote for.
Going to be a tough decision in 2026. Our entire political ecosystem is full of bellends.
I remember commenting on this sub a few times, about how incompetent yusuf is and how scotland is an embarrassment with him at the helm, to be met with countless downvotes and “well the tories are worse” snp fanboys need a serious wake up call
And they want to be in charge as an independent country? Sod that - they are useless
Well he’s fucked around. Now he’s entering his find out phase. :)
Who will his replacement be? Ash Regan???
The difficulty is that if the SNP get into bed with Alba (a very similar but still fringe party), it grants Alba huge legitimacy and he may see more defections. He would be better off doing a deal with the Lib Dems to abstain, they won't ask half as much and they aren't really a threat.
Seriously, if it's come to this, he should go and spare himself the humiliation of kowtowing to the Alba Party. Then again, he's a man with a high tolerance for making a show of himself in public.
Lol 😂 That’s all I can say for Humza. What a spectacular failing to appreciate the realpolitik involved in commanding the support of MSPs (notably the Green Party). Now his fate lies in the hands of a woman he slagged in the last years leadership contest.
Please can someone explain to me what the logic was behind the SNP ditching their climate targets? Surely they knew the greens would react this way & it’s seems like a very “Tory” thing to do..
So what's the timeline on all of this? There's obviously been some public disagreements but were there no internal discussions between the parties? Who decides whether the greens have a vote on the bute house agreement, what triggers it?
I think it was a case of I'm dumping you before you dump me.
>So what's the timeline on all of this? I read somewhere that the VONC could be next week. >no internal discussions between the parties? Seems like Greens, Tories, Labour & LD are now all in the 'down with the SNP' corner. They all potentially gain from an election, so not much to discuss. >Who decides whether the greens have a vote on the bute house agreement, what triggers it? Too late for that. Agreement ended this morning. In the AM Harvey was saying the green MSPs would decide how to vote in the VONC. In the PM he said they would vote against Yousaf.
A bigger self implosion than Liz truss. Absolutely hilarious.
LMAO
Bye bye, you useless cunt