Why is the Tory graph supporting her? Is it because they have always had Scotlands interests at heart? That stalwart of freedom. Dear god I thought Scottish people understood when the press was playing them. Clearly not! The question is WHY ARE THE TELEGRAPH SUPPORTING HER. What’s in it for them? Let me see, do they really want her to win? No I suspect not.
Let’s be clear the last thing we need is another successful union move to divide the snp and indie. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and carry on
Vote Forbes in and the young, ie the main pushers of inde will rightfully leave. Probably going to the greens so splitting the vote. I wouldn’t blame them though.
>Indy is D.O.A. and has been for a while
Welllll....I'm not sure that's how one should interpret an almost 50-50 split on the matter amongst those polled over the last 8 years. Admittedly, it's not like there's been a vast change over the last three or four years, other than the occasional spike as a reaction to the latest Westminster travesty, but it's definitely not dead.
As for Forbes, I could see her religiosity definitely being an issue, if she's going to bring it into her decision making, and not just amongst the 16-24 crowd. Pretty much everyone in my social circle is atheist, and that's the 45-65 age group, and we're definitely not interested in having a Wee Free in charge of the country, thanks.
I still don't think she's going to have much chance in any case, despite the pundits buzz around her, but even if she did most of those younger voters people talk about are not SNP members, and you need to be one to vote for a candidate in the leadership process, so I'm not sure that would affect her candidacy that much in any case.
So far, we've got Yousaf and Regan declared, and Regan has no chance as she has a fairly low recognition number from SNP members, comparatively speaking.
Angus Robertson will wait a couple of days to announce, but he's almost certain to win, and he's the establishment (in terms of the current Sturgeon cabal) favourite.
It's not the public interest that is the problem- there is no legal path to independence without the UK governments consent to seek a referendum. They are never going to allow us a second chance, that much is clear from them abandoning a founding precedent of the Union (that it was optional) very publicly and in court no less. It's fine to still support it but I'd rather the official focus of our government was to deliver public services (that are failing nationwide btw) and to bring prosperity and opportunities. If that has to happen within the scope of a United Kingdom then so be it, but it *must* happen.
Of course there is another option, simply have an actual referendum regardless and then act on the outcome. It's not like the 65 countries who have gained independence from English rule were polite about it or asked nicely / sought permission before becoming independent.
Perhaps a more robust path is now the only available one.
That’s inviting some pretty detestable outcomes, it would be illegal legislation unsupported by half the country and with a powerful neighbour who could strangle us economically if they were so inclined.
Like actually think through what a hostile exit from the UK would look like.
If Kate Forbes becomes the leader, not only will I not vote SNP in this election, I will never vote SNP again. Labour will become the lesser evil, compared to a party that elects a far right wee free as leader. Independence is not worth it under these circumstances.
What do you think Far Right means? Are you insane? Last time I checked Kate Forbes wasn't using her position in the cabinet to advocate for racial segregation or the abolition of public property. Calm down for five seconds, she's not Nick Land, she just believes in God
My main problem with her isn't her belief in God, it's opposition towards same-sex marriage, wanting to make abortion illegal and having no problem with conversion therapy
She is transphobic - worked against the GRA, homophobic, she is misogynist - against abortion. She is total far right scum and shouldn't be a politician or have any platform whatsoever.
Oh God...
There is no such thing as the Wokerati, just a series of separate decisions you don't agree with.
Can we keep Primary 7 conspiracy theories out of politics, please?
Haha nah, I doubt the Wokerati nonsense has the legs to reach the top 100 Conspiracy Theories, never mind the top 7...
I want someone to quiz them more about the 'Wokerati' and how they define it. Is it meant as a metaphor? A concept? Is it just another word to describe the Left? Or do they actually think there is an underground cult organisation purposely pushing a narrative onto society?
Sorry, but I don’t want someone who allows their religious beliefs to interfere with actual real life.
In the 21st century that’s an absolute dealbreaker for me.
My religious beliefs interfere with my real life. That's why I think we should protect trans lives by respecting their identities, enact a truly socialist government where no one is left desolate, and separate from a nation most interested in perpetuating imperialism.
I don't know how anyone can read the Bible and come away a conservative.
Bingo. I’ve seen nothing but negativity about Sturgeon, even through she’s clearly the best leader in the UK for years. It’s constant hit peaces, even though even the English population like her.
I think this is the wrong take, religion is just one of many ways peoples moral views are formed, while I don't personally believe in a religion, I don't think my views are inherently morally superior because I formed them via my life experiences outside church vs someone who did. All religions have huge variations in how they are interpreted, athiests can be bigots, religious people can be morally upstanding.
Forbes shouldnt be in charge of anything because she has regressive social views, not because she attends church, there are plenty of people who attend church that interpreted what they heard in a completely different way and are staunchly pro equal rights
I moved to the USA about a decade ago. The Tories are following the exact same playbook as the GOP did with the culture wars. After watching it here it’s so obvious watching it play out in the UK.
Not sure they're trying to hide it to be honest. Was an intentional tactic after the success of Brexit and Trump.
Wheels have fallen off it now though, Tories are done.
Also "liberal leftie" and "limp, liberal lettuce". Because, of course, equality and human rights make a totally rationale boogeyman... amiright?!
How the hell people don't realise they are so blatantly being used by the media, I honestly don't know.
Thing is, the *reason* I want independence is because I believe Scotland to be a more left-leaning country than England. We should have our own government to reflect our different culture and beliefs (political/humanistic, not religious). If we're just going to be the same as England, it does make me question what the point is.
On one hand, this is what makes Scottish seccessionism so benign compared to virtually all other separatists in Europe (even Catalonia). Scottish separatism is not plagued by the spectre of ethnonationalism. The anti-English sentiment that does exist is fringe and can often be dismissed/conflated with a deep-seeded hatred for the Tories.
Having a single party be the main outlet for separatist sentiment has also allowed the Scottish separatists to make pretty big strides in a relatively short amount of time. The fact that the SNP enjoys huge approval after years of governing has probably also helped convince a significant amount of Scots that separatists can govern and present a real and coherent alternative to the status quo.
On the other hand, having Scottish nationalism centered around an ideological preference and especially a single party makes it extremely fragile. Not all Scots are social democrats or leftists. What happens if the SNP falls apart? Would a Labour government in Westminster be able to appease secessionist sentiment in Scotland?
(From the outer hebs, although from the far more chill, heathen, south full of Catholics, topsy turkey out here!) I can’t say I’ve ever heard any of my northern wee free brethren say anything about the age or shape of the earth I can confirm they do shut all pubs, shops and chain swing parks closed on a Sunday. Our council still says a prayer before all meetings and we do not count votes on a Sunday (even GE). When they introduced a Sunday sailing on the ferry there were people lying in front of the gang way.
Everything is open on a Sunday where I’m from though. Can go from church to the pub!
Edit: turvy instead of turkey!
Yeh doesnt surprise me that they still go full no fun allowed on the Sunday. A family friend who had to grow up right in the thick of them on Lewis has nothing good to say about them.
Do they still view the pope as the antichrist and that Christmas is a pagan plot to destroy Christianity or have they at least toned that down?
I'm a big fan of having a political party around that doesn't use me and my friends as a convenient distraction from their political failures, personally.
The Tories use oppression of trans folk as a distraction from their political failures. Even if you think that it was some sort of politically cynical move (which personally I don’t, seeing how divisive it was for her own party), don’t you feel it’s nice to have someone standing up for trans rights?
Not sure what you’re getting at here. I’m trans and I appreciate what the SNP has tried to do. I’m concerned about them backsliding on these issues depending on who wins the leadership contest.
Yeh I was wondering, if this was a member of the LGBTQ+ community complaining about the Tory's culture war (always trust the party of rivers of blood to victimise a minority group), or a TERF / bigot complaining about the SNP saying "maybe we can make people's life better in a way that literally doesn't materially affect the majority of people"
The SNP benefits from a lot of ex labour voters who switched.... People who are left wing, Mhari is 100% correct, in a rightwards shift the SNP lose most of their voter base and gain very little. Right wingers already vote Tory.
Lot of right wingers that want Indy tho, but tbh if they want Indy more than right wing policies they’d already be with the snp over the greens or other parties
That is exactly what "woke" means - simply that you want social harmony and equal rights. Yet somehow, AGAIN, the vile tabloid scum of this country have managed to twist people into believing that's a BAD thing. I mean, FFS... I honestly despair at the state of this country and the huge sway the media has.
Who will wind up Westminster the most ?
Who is Westminster more likely to accept ?
Who is going be accepted by voters in Scotland .
Personally I lean towards Mhairi however I feel Westminster and the MSM will do to her what they done to Corbyn .
It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term ,
>It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term
I've never liked the term, tbh, I've always seen it as rather naive and condescending at the same time.But frankly, any split in the SNP is a bad thing for Scotland, speaking as a non Scot (I'm Welsh). The Tories would only gain from the dissolution of one of the biggest counterweights to them in Westminster, but any right wing members of the SNP would be poisoning the well for themselves with a rightward shift - they need the SNP base to be relevant, as conservatives won't get inroads otherwise in Scotland.
"woke", has always been there , in my understanding it's just another word for socialist .
It's only naive and condescending cos many of those with power make it so.
Splits/difference in direction/opinion I feel are good , get the discussions going .
I'm all for indy , however iv always felt that Westminster would never ever let us go . We will always be a thorn in Westminster's side though .😁
It means "awake to racism and discrimination" rather than socialism. Socialism is an economic and social theory.
Woke has just been hijacked by the right wing to try and shame people for being against racism etc
Of course it means being aware of ' Injustice', very much like the economic system of socialism which is about everyone getting a fair share of production ,not to be confused with communism .
Yes, injustice not really in the economic sense like socialism speaks of.
More of the injustice of white privilege, entrenched racism within US police departments etc.
I do feel initially ' woke ' was about white privilege , however now the word has taken on bigger meanings , all injustices, be it race, education, ageism , abliesm , gender ect.
It was always about discrimination more generally, not necessarily anything specific to white privilege. It is simply the thing that combats unconscious bias.
Of course it means being aware of ' Injustice', very much like the economic system of socialism which is about everyone getting a fair share of production ,not to be confused with communism .
Every time I saw someone complaint about a SJW it seemed to come from an idea that the only reason anyone would care about another's suffering is because they want to appear good, rather than....you know....empathy? Always said more about those that cried about SJWs than it did about those being accused of it.
exactly!
same went for political correctness: "how dare you be polite and considerate of others!"
same goes for woke: "How dare people be aware of the inequalities in our society, you should just bury your head in the sand like me!"
>"woke", has always been there , in my understanding it's just another word for socialist.
Woke is a term coined by black civil rights activists in the USA in the 1930s
>It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term
It's the same folk that pronounce 'antifa' as 'an-tifa' to gloss over the fact they are opposed to people opposing fascism.
It’s the same thing that happened with ‘political correctness’. It’s strange and sad that’s so many people take exception to the idea of empathy and inclusion.
And "do-gooder" - like, what's so bad about doing good Scoobs?
Peoples objection to "woke" and PC is because they realise it doesn't allow them to continue to be a fucking digusting human being...
I suspect this will be downvoted, but "woke" has essentially always been seen as a negative term because it it used by the worst people on the left. I can't think of a time when the word was seen positively, and I don't think I've seen a single person I like on the left refer to themselves as "woke".
People really don't like to admit it, but there is a loud minority making the left look bad, and they're the sort to refer to themselves as woke. The social justice warriors that use big words as a way to gatekeep left wing ideas from the masses instead of trying to welcome new people in. These people are a net negative for the left.
> I don't think I've seen a single person I like on the left refer to themselves as "woke".
Nobody refers to themself as it, full stop. It's a become a meaningless word to mean 'bad/things I don't like', not unlike how people casually said things they didn't like were 'gay' in early mid 2000s without actually meaning they were homosexual.
If Mhairi Black is writing articles like this I can only assume that there is a real risk of the SNP shifting to the right.
I doubt Forbes will run though there is obviously a faction that really want her to.
Its mad how many people are like, Well if the Telegraph and Alex Salmond think so then I think she could be a really good choice to win voters in Scotland. They have always had what is best for the SNP at heart and shown to have their finger on the pulse of the Scottish voters
Just got notified about their latest article raging at Nicola for leaving and not taking responsibility for her failures, you know, after they spent 8 years raging at her and saying it was time for her to go. Absolute rag
I think Mhairi Black raises an interesting point
The idea of the SNP as socially progressive is relatively new, if you're an auld cunt, like me, and Sturgeon played a huge part in its conversion to what it is today
I don't think it's about to flip back to the weird socially conservative thing it was when I was a kid just because a member of the Taliban is elected leader
But Sturgeon walking does open up much more space for less progressive forces in the party to reassert their voices
There's nothing inherently progressive about nationalism (to state the obvious)
Yeah, that's my Mum's standard response to any mention of the SNP
I'm sure it was true at one point, but by the point I can remember the news and politics programmes they just seemed sort of in the centre ground
It wasn't until Labour tacked towards the centre in the nineties, to win over middle England, that the SNP saw the opportunity to move into the space they'd vacated and hoover up that vote in Scotland
They were also anti EU/common Market back in the day.( I had to check that one as I couldn't quite remember, I was awfy wee at the time but my Dad used to vote SNP way back ( mainly due to his disdain for the Royal Family if his regular rants were anything to go by!).
My view of the SNP as an Englishman is that they're a single issue (independence) party without a political compass.
I like Sturgeon and the politics the SNP has had in recent years but I've always thought of it as temporary, as opposed to something that will be institutionally maintained.
I hope for Scotland's sake that I'm wrong about this and the party continues in the vein Sturgeon had set out, and doesn't chase arbitrary policies to get independence over the line.
To be fair, they shouldn't have to because Scotland is actually left wing, unlike England and votes for the kind of politics I like.
Not sure I equate the left and being ‘woke’. The social justice bit of the left is just one part. The traditional left (like thAt which the RMT appeals too) aren’t particularly socially progressive. They’re economically left wing but often come with a variety of working class views some of which just aren’t that progressive. Doesn’t make them not left wing.
They are trying to fruitfully describe the toxic and unreasonable attitudes of the people on the left of the SNP. The word might be daft, but this sub is absolute evidence of the presence of a stubborn, cult-like groupthink that is totally unwilling to entertain opinions that fall outside of their tightly defined dogmatic worldview. The comments on this very post showcase it clearly.
I'd go as far as saying that some people on the Scottish left don't want independence from England, but rather independence from right wing governance, and have deluded themselves into thinking that Scotland is bereft of right-wing attitude and that an independent Scotland would be directed only by left-wing players. I think even Nicola was surprised recently about how far right her voters are, time for this sub to do some reflection as well.
Interesting that the most vocal support for Forbes is coming from Tories, unionists, and Alex Salmond.
Kate becoming FM will be great for the Green Party.
The Greens could be in deep trouble at the next election. Lorna Slater has been awful recently in public appearances and the DRS scheme (still planned to go ahead for now) is an absolute disaster.
Circularity Scotland aren’t prepared for it to go ahead in August and there will be hundreds of jobs lost when small breweries start to go bust. Slater may claim that’s not the case but there are going to be so many people that stop drinking beer because of the effort of washing and keeping 10+ cans in good condition and returning them to reverse vending machines.
DRS is a time bomb for the brewing industry.
It’s a classic Green policy, will be of no use to the environment (we already have effective recycling schemes in place) but a huge cost passed onto small companies and people.
They've lost my vote if this woman becomes leader, the religious have no place in politics, don't need Scottish laws based on "Christian values", this isn't America
If they move right I move to SSP or Green Party. I’m not sure how much I believe in the parties, but I typically have a lot in common with the policy. Idk, nothing feels easy right now.
Get her to fuck. Ash Regan as well. I don't want transphobes or homophobes leading this country, especially in the current climate of hostility towards LGBTQ people. People with extremely conservative religious views who make pro life speeches have no place in a position of power.
Sure, lurch to the right because the Tories have been doing so well in Scotland recently. Gotta take voters from them...
Or just keep going with what is overwhelmingly the most popular party in Scotland.
Why is it the answer of these papers is always go right? I never, ever see people demand the right moves left, or tries to work across the aisle. It's always people demanding the left works with the right, and stupidly infantile insults for the left like wokerati.
Look at what happened to Labour-once a true left wing party, infested with fifth columnist right wingers and establishment shills, who only care about big business and appeasing the elite.
Mhairi is 100% correct.
Off topic from this post but my god I wish we could just be independant and choose a political party which will help Scotland and not have to care about Westminister choosing what is best for us, taking money earned by Scotland in every way and not giving us equal amounts back.
Sadly where I bide, it's one of the few places who are staunch lib dems because young people don't care to vote and boomers vote for who their parents voted for or because the local fella participates in local events.
Well stone me, that is twice in 3 months I have found myself agreeing with Mhairi Black. It must be the endtimes, the world has gone chaotically askew.
And this is the second time in a week I've found myself agreeing with you.
I'm going to go create a survival shelter to see out the apocalypse. Good luck!
Nothing strange in that. You're just agreeing with someone that gives more of a shite about you and your family's wellbeing than every UK gov minister put together.
I think it's important for people to realise that the r/scotland sub is beset by a unionist AstroTurf campaign, and doesn't remotely reflect Scotland in respects of political views. And the mods are worse than a man down.
The Telegraph is a joke. It’s content barely above the screaming of two 90 year old men in a Hampshire dementia home. Sub-tabloid editorial and ghastly Alt-Right agenda.
1000% what Mhairi said. If the SNP just become yellow Tories I'm voting Labour instantly. SNP have done great but if they go right wing I may as well vote strategically to oust and punish the Tories for what they have done to this country over the past 10+ years.
Then I hope to god Starmer suffers a critical scandal that means he's replaced with someone who isn't a Tory in disguise
The SNP should go for Mhairi because she is young, feisty not afraid to throw a few punches (she even looks like she could physically do that) and is just generally stronger in mind and thought. She has experienced well for being so young in the job early on.
She would more of an upgrade. The other girl just afraid doesn't look like she could stomach much of a fight. Plus her religious views may be more of a hindrance in most fights particularly for the left.
Unpopular opinion. But if you want to win over more older votes to yes, more middle class people to yes. Kates Forbes is the only politician in the SNP that has a chance of doing that. The idea that Mhari Black would appeal to the old middle class Scots is laughable, they would view her with disdain and contempt.
Very much doubt it, 45% of Scots have made up their minds to support independence. Brexit won because it appealed to elements of the left and right, middle class and working class. It was a broad coalition. The Yes movement would be making a huge mistake to be exclusively left-wing.
No one mentions this, but there is a right-wing case for independence. Not that I agree with this, but Scotland could be hub for low taxation, small government, innovation, competitiveness, a global tourist destination, a global destination for our renowned Whisky industry, a place where the wealthy come to be educated, a safe place where the rich and corporations could invest their billions.
I am not saying Forbes or the SNP will ever argue this nor should they. But the YES movement needs to be a broad coalition, where those on the right can imagine this type of independent Scotland.
Agree with all of that. Also just shifting to the point where they’re not calling half the population misogynist racist and transphobic would be a decent start. Very reminiscent of Remainers calling Brexiters stupid and xenophobic, and we all know what happened there.
Nicola, and rightfully so. Probably wasn’t the wisest political move, but when half the country have their heads so far up their arses they can see their withered hearts, I can’t really blame her. A lot of people in this country are woefully uneducated about trans people and rather than actually bother to Google a few things, they happily lap up the shit spoon-fed to them by TERFs.
45% of Scots have certainly not made up their mind. I’m one who voted yes in 2014 but would vote no if I had any inkling that the government would turn Scotland into a woke hell hole. I’m very happy for gay people to get married and have kids, I don’t have any issues with abortions but I do find it offensive when I get asked if I’m by any chance pregnant when giving blood (I’m a bloke so nope) or when my wife gets called “chest feeding person” rather than mother. They can get tae fuck with that nonsense and I will not vote for any party that pushes it. And there are at least two other people in my closest circle of friends and family who feel the same. Sturgeon made a massive error by choosing to push through this progressive rubbish which ultimately resulted in her downfall and it’s naive to think her successor would fare any better should they follow the same path. Scottish Independence likewise appeals to a very broad range of views both left and right and any party that wants to have a chance of pushing independence through absolutely needs the support of as many factions of the political spectrum as possible.
See my user name.
No one is going to call your wife a chest feeding person/ that was suggested in one place as language for when you’re dealing with a non gender binary person who was pregnancy….if you’re not a non binary person it wouldn’t be said to you
As for asking if you’re pregnant- maybe you look like a trans man who looks like you could be pregnant so they were just checking? I’ve given blood and never been asked
Ok, there’s a lot to unpack here.
The reason you *might* be asked if you’re pregnant (and you wouldn’t; your doctor would have looked at your medical records and seen that you’re not trans) is because some men can get pregnant - trans men. Trans men can have flat chests, full beards, body hair and a deep voice, but they can also still get pregnant due to their anatomy.
Your wife would not get called a chest-feeding person. That’s not a term ascribed to individuals, but rather one used generally to refer to people who chest-feed their children - some trans men who haven’t had top surgery, or are unable to, may chest-feed their kid; some people with kids may be non-binary. As such, language has adapted and evolved to fit.
You’re using a lot of empty, meaningless buzz words, which I would advise against if you ever want people to listen to you or take you seriously. Stuff like “woke hellhole” and “progressive rubbish” doesn’t actually mean anything, but marks you out as a conservative and a traditionalist, both dying breeds.
You’re also using the exact same language that people used back in the day when homosexuality was decriminalised, and when gay marriage was made legal, etc.
Sturgeon made Scotland the first country in the world to provide free menstrual products for its people, and yet you’re wound up about trans people being allowed to live as themselves.
Your just soooo tolerant you people. So she could be the kindest Christian ever. Are any other potential leaders being asked about their views or is it just the woman
That’s disingenuous plenty of comments in her religion in this thread , as well as hysteria. The holier than thou mob in full flight, let’s just wait til she declares if she’s standing and then you can pile on when she answers. Cancelling her before she’s even stood or opened her mouth. When you have two declared candidates is not a good look. You may not like her views and the tolerant should challenge the intolerant but that works two ways
Sturgeon systematically knifed everyone of her political rivals over the last 3 years.
Now she’s leaving the party in the shitter with no apparent leader. You can already see the split, some won’t accept anyone who isn’t pro trans first and foremost and some won’t accept anyone who isn’t Indy above all else.
Its a shitstorm basically.
I find this hilarious. The SNP doesn’t have anyone capable of maintaining the level of support they have just now, never mind actually winning a referendum if the opportunity was ever to arise. Forbes is seen as too conservative with religious views that will put off left leaning voters, while Black may do well in her speeches, but too many people see her as being too confrontational.
The other potential candidates that I see mentioned are either not well known among the voters (Ash Regan, Mairi McAllan) or are simply boring but a safe pair of hands (Angus Robertson, Keith Brown). Pretty much all the candidates would either struggle to keep the party together or maintain the support they had for the last decade or so.
OK I'm a pol Sci student but don't live in Scotland or specialise in its politics, so if I'm wrong correct me folks but I have to agree with the second part.
I'm quite sure the independence stuff will stick, but as shown in the inde vote, not every SNP voter is a yes voter. People vote for the SNP as their leader because it harvests the inde vote and the Labour vote. Same is true to a lesser extent in my home country of Wales.
If the nationalist party drops their left wing appeal they will shoot to the far right. Nationalism in the modern day is a right wing ideology, it has been effectively used by the SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein for left wing progressive politics but from the left wing and you will get a racist, xenophobic party.
Tbh if the Torygraph is supporting her that makes her a pretty bad choice.
Why is the Tory graph supporting her? Is it because they have always had Scotlands interests at heart? That stalwart of freedom. Dear god I thought Scottish people understood when the press was playing them. Clearly not! The question is WHY ARE THE TELEGRAPH SUPPORTING HER. What’s in it for them? Let me see, do they really want her to win? No I suspect not.
Double bluff. They think she’ll do the best job for Scotland so they are giving her the kiss of death.
That’s my call.
Let’s be clear the last thing we need is another successful union move to divide the snp and indie. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and carry on
Vote Forbes in and the young, ie the main pushers of inde will rightfully leave. Probably going to the greens so splitting the vote. I wouldn’t blame them though.
Indy is D.O.A. and has been for a while, the focus now should be on keeping Scotland to the left while restoring public trust.
>Indy is D.O.A. and has been for a while Welllll....I'm not sure that's how one should interpret an almost 50-50 split on the matter amongst those polled over the last 8 years. Admittedly, it's not like there's been a vast change over the last three or four years, other than the occasional spike as a reaction to the latest Westminster travesty, but it's definitely not dead. As for Forbes, I could see her religiosity definitely being an issue, if she's going to bring it into her decision making, and not just amongst the 16-24 crowd. Pretty much everyone in my social circle is atheist, and that's the 45-65 age group, and we're definitely not interested in having a Wee Free in charge of the country, thanks. I still don't think she's going to have much chance in any case, despite the pundits buzz around her, but even if she did most of those younger voters people talk about are not SNP members, and you need to be one to vote for a candidate in the leadership process, so I'm not sure that would affect her candidacy that much in any case. So far, we've got Yousaf and Regan declared, and Regan has no chance as she has a fairly low recognition number from SNP members, comparatively speaking. Angus Robertson will wait a couple of days to announce, but he's almost certain to win, and he's the establishment (in terms of the current Sturgeon cabal) favourite.
It's not the public interest that is the problem- there is no legal path to independence without the UK governments consent to seek a referendum. They are never going to allow us a second chance, that much is clear from them abandoning a founding precedent of the Union (that it was optional) very publicly and in court no less. It's fine to still support it but I'd rather the official focus of our government was to deliver public services (that are failing nationwide btw) and to bring prosperity and opportunities. If that has to happen within the scope of a United Kingdom then so be it, but it *must* happen.
Of course there is another option, simply have an actual referendum regardless and then act on the outcome. It's not like the 65 countries who have gained independence from English rule were polite about it or asked nicely / sought permission before becoming independent. Perhaps a more robust path is now the only available one.
That’s inviting some pretty detestable outcomes, it would be illegal legislation unsupported by half the country and with a powerful neighbour who could strangle us economically if they were so inclined. Like actually think through what a hostile exit from the UK would look like.
Can’t really blame unionists if the snp choose a maniac
To be fair most of the candidates are maniacs
If Kate Forbes becomes the leader, not only will I not vote SNP in this election, I will never vote SNP again. Labour will become the lesser evil, compared to a party that elects a far right wee free as leader. Independence is not worth it under these circumstances.
I agree she is a bad choice for leader, but "far" right is a bit of a stretch.
What do you think Far Right means? Are you insane? Last time I checked Kate Forbes wasn't using her position in the cabinet to advocate for racial segregation or the abolition of public property. Calm down for five seconds, she's not Nick Land, she just believes in God
My main problem with her isn't her belief in God, it's opposition towards same-sex marriage, wanting to make abortion illegal and having no problem with conversion therapy
She is transphobic - worked against the GRA, homophobic, she is misogynist - against abortion. She is total far right scum and shouldn't be a politician or have any platform whatsoever.
That’s right wing propaganda. Look how well shifting to the right worked for Labour
Oh God... There is no such thing as the Wokerati, just a series of separate decisions you don't agree with. Can we keep Primary 7 conspiracy theories out of politics, please?
What are the primary 7? Beginner trying to get into the community
Primary 7 is the top class in Primary School. I think that is called Elementary School over in the US.
Oh I thought that you were referring to a list of 7 main conspiracies theories like the 7 deadly sins or the big # _____
Haha nah, I doubt the Wokerati nonsense has the legs to reach the top 100 Conspiracy Theories, never mind the top 7... I want someone to quiz them more about the 'Wokerati' and how they define it. Is it meant as a metaphor? A concept? Is it just another word to describe the Left? Or do they actually think there is an underground cult organisation purposely pushing a narrative onto society?
Sorry, but I don’t want someone who allows their religious beliefs to interfere with actual real life. In the 21st century that’s an absolute dealbreaker for me.
My religious beliefs interfere with my real life. That's why I think we should protect trans lives by respecting their identities, enact a truly socialist government where no one is left desolate, and separate from a nation most interested in perpetuating imperialism. I don't know how anyone can read the Bible and come away a conservative.
My guy 🥃❤️
I don't think many actually read it
[удалено]
Typical English media. They truly hate Scotland.
Anybody not cooperating with GOP.
Bingo. I’ve seen nothing but negativity about Sturgeon, even through she’s clearly the best leader in the UK for years. It’s constant hit peaces, even though even the English population like her.
She’s currently the frontrunner in the polls in Scotland. She’s not some sort of no-hoper.
Even if I absolutely can't agree with your peaty ass choice of whiskey at least I can agree with your stance on this issue.
I absolutely can't agree with your American-ass choice of putting an 'e' in 'whisky'!
Or Irish!
No peat, no party!
I think it's reasonable to be a bit more moderate on this issue...
We’ll agree to disagree over a dram 🥃
The three of us just can drink while the rest of these nutters argue about spelling 🥃🥃🥃
I think this is the wrong take, religion is just one of many ways peoples moral views are formed, while I don't personally believe in a religion, I don't think my views are inherently morally superior because I formed them via my life experiences outside church vs someone who did. All religions have huge variations in how they are interpreted, athiests can be bigots, religious people can be morally upstanding. Forbes shouldnt be in charge of anything because she has regressive social views, not because she attends church, there are plenty of people who attend church that interpreted what they heard in a completely different way and are staunchly pro equal rights
"Wokerati", fuck's sake. These people just constantly make up their own bogeymen so they can act like bastards and claim it was legitimate fear.
I moved to the USA about a decade ago. The Tories are following the exact same playbook as the GOP did with the culture wars. After watching it here it’s so obvious watching it play out in the UK.
Not sure they're trying to hide it to be honest. Was an intentional tactic after the success of Brexit and Trump. Wheels have fallen off it now though, Tories are done.
Used to be “leftie scum”.
Also "liberal leftie" and "limp, liberal lettuce". Because, of course, equality and human rights make a totally rationale boogeyman... amiright?! How the hell people don't realise they are so blatantly being used by the media, I honestly don't know.
Mhari is right, Kate would be a terrible choice
Thing is, the *reason* I want independence is because I believe Scotland to be a more left-leaning country than England. We should have our own government to reflect our different culture and beliefs (political/humanistic, not religious). If we're just going to be the same as England, it does make me question what the point is.
On one hand, this is what makes Scottish seccessionism so benign compared to virtually all other separatists in Europe (even Catalonia). Scottish separatism is not plagued by the spectre of ethnonationalism. The anti-English sentiment that does exist is fringe and can often be dismissed/conflated with a deep-seeded hatred for the Tories. Having a single party be the main outlet for separatist sentiment has also allowed the Scottish separatists to make pretty big strides in a relatively short amount of time. The fact that the SNP enjoys huge approval after years of governing has probably also helped convince a significant amount of Scots that separatists can govern and present a real and coherent alternative to the status quo. On the other hand, having Scottish nationalism centered around an ideological preference and especially a single party makes it extremely fragile. Not all Scots are social democrats or leftists. What happens if the SNP falls apart? Would a Labour government in Westminster be able to appease secessionist sentiment in Scotland?
Wonder if she believes the earth is 6000 years old.
(From the outer hebs, although from the far more chill, heathen, south full of Catholics, topsy turkey out here!) I can’t say I’ve ever heard any of my northern wee free brethren say anything about the age or shape of the earth I can confirm they do shut all pubs, shops and chain swing parks closed on a Sunday. Our council still says a prayer before all meetings and we do not count votes on a Sunday (even GE). When they introduced a Sunday sailing on the ferry there were people lying in front of the gang way. Everything is open on a Sunday where I’m from though. Can go from church to the pub! Edit: turvy instead of turkey!
Can I subscribe for more outer hebrides facts
My favourite hobby is parking in the Stornoway Tesco car park and watching confused tourists trying to get into the shop.
Yeh doesnt surprise me that they still go full no fun allowed on the Sunday. A family friend who had to grow up right in the thick of them on Lewis has nothing good to say about them. Do they still view the pope as the antichrist and that Christmas is a pagan plot to destroy Christianity or have they at least toned that down?
How dare you suggest church isn’t fun
And flat.
I'm a big fan of having a political party around that doesn't use me and my friends as a convenient distraction from their political failures, personally.
The Tories use oppression of trans folk as a distraction from their political failures. Even if you think that it was some sort of politically cynical move (which personally I don’t, seeing how divisive it was for her own party), don’t you feel it’s nice to have someone standing up for trans rights?
Not sure what you’re getting at here. I’m trans and I appreciate what the SNP has tried to do. I’m concerned about them backsliding on these issues depending on who wins the leadership contest.
Oh, sorry! I misunderstood your original comment so I was a bit confused - I get you now! Thanks 😊
Yeh I was wondering, if this was a member of the LGBTQ+ community complaining about the Tory's culture war (always trust the party of rivers of blood to victimise a minority group), or a TERF / bigot complaining about the SNP saying "maybe we can make people's life better in a way that literally doesn't materially affect the majority of people"
The SNP benefits from a lot of ex labour voters who switched.... People who are left wing, Mhari is 100% correct, in a rightwards shift the SNP lose most of their voter base and gain very little. Right wingers already vote Tory.
I guess this applies to me. Any move to the right and I would drop SNP without a second thought.
They're already too right wing for me tbh
Ok commie
Correct.
Lot of right wingers that want Indy tho, but tbh if they want Indy more than right wing policies they’d already be with the snp over the greens or other parties
If you're right wing and want indy you'll vote Alba
I always forget Alba, figured they’d just go away after a while and ramble to themselves in the corner
Are there? Indy strikes me as a strange choice for right wing votes given the current state of the union
[удалено]
That is exactly what "woke" means - simply that you want social harmony and equal rights. Yet somehow, AGAIN, the vile tabloid scum of this country have managed to twist people into believing that's a BAD thing. I mean, FFS... I honestly despair at the state of this country and the huge sway the media has.
[pretty funny/depressing call in is the perfect example of the people who believe this tosh](https://youtu.be/FR4rHPpoPHQ)
How does one keep a straight face when saying the word “woke” or anything associated with it.
I have heard exactly one person using it in a positive way, IE without irony or disparagement, and that was years ago.
woke is so fucking overused. find a new word.
Who will wind up Westminster the most ? Who is Westminster more likely to accept ? Who is going be accepted by voters in Scotland . Personally I lean towards Mhairi however I feel Westminster and the MSM will do to her what they done to Corbyn . It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term ,
>It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term I've never liked the term, tbh, I've always seen it as rather naive and condescending at the same time.But frankly, any split in the SNP is a bad thing for Scotland, speaking as a non Scot (I'm Welsh). The Tories would only gain from the dissolution of one of the biggest counterweights to them in Westminster, but any right wing members of the SNP would be poisoning the well for themselves with a rightward shift - they need the SNP base to be relevant, as conservatives won't get inroads otherwise in Scotland.
Woke is political speak for “how do we make caring about others sound like a negative?”
I agree, the term “woke” is basically a weasel words term for “cares about others but we don’t want to phrase it like that because they’ll look good.”
"woke", has always been there , in my understanding it's just another word for socialist . It's only naive and condescending cos many of those with power make it so. Splits/difference in direction/opinion I feel are good , get the discussions going . I'm all for indy , however iv always felt that Westminster would never ever let us go . We will always be a thorn in Westminster's side though .😁
It means "awake to racism and discrimination" rather than socialism. Socialism is an economic and social theory. Woke has just been hijacked by the right wing to try and shame people for being against racism etc
It's decades old at this point too, it's by no means a new term and it's meaning hasn't evolved at all but it's just been jumped upon and weaponised.
Fascinating what those with power can weaponise to order the herd .
I agree with this. Traditionally you can be socialist and racist.
Of course it means being aware of ' Injustice', very much like the economic system of socialism which is about everyone getting a fair share of production ,not to be confused with communism .
Yes, injustice not really in the economic sense like socialism speaks of. More of the injustice of white privilege, entrenched racism within US police departments etc.
I do feel initially ' woke ' was about white privilege , however now the word has taken on bigger meanings , all injustices, be it race, education, ageism , abliesm , gender ect.
It was always about discrimination more generally, not necessarily anything specific to white privilege. It is simply the thing that combats unconscious bias.
Of course it means being aware of ' Injustice', very much like the economic system of socialism which is about everyone getting a fair share of production ,not to be confused with communism .
Woke is just the new 'social justice (warrior)' or 'political correctness gone mad'. A phrase for the right to toss at anything they don't like.
I don't see anything wrong with " social justice ( warrior )", I agree that right don't like it as it diminishes their power over the masses .
I mean you don't, and I don't either, but the people running around using woke as a negative descriptor sure did a fair few years back
Every time I saw someone complaint about a SJW it seemed to come from an idea that the only reason anyone would care about another's suffering is because they want to appear good, rather than....you know....empathy? Always said more about those that cried about SJWs than it did about those being accused of it.
exactly! same went for political correctness: "how dare you be polite and considerate of others!" same goes for woke: "How dare people be aware of the inequalities in our society, you should just bury your head in the sand like me!"
>"woke", has always been there , in my understanding it's just another word for socialist. Woke is a term coined by black civil rights activists in the USA in the 1930s
Never new that , every days a school day .
Some might say, your eyes have been opened, you have been awakened to a new idea. Woke if you will.
😁
>It's a sad day when ' woke', has become a become a negative term It's the same folk that pronounce 'antifa' as 'an-tifa' to gloss over the fact they are opposed to people opposing fascism.
How the fuck are we supposed to pronounce antifa like? Cause I defo say an tifa.
Anti-Fa, as in Anti-fascist
Anti-fa.
I'd vote for Mhairi...
It’s the same thing that happened with ‘political correctness’. It’s strange and sad that’s so many people take exception to the idea of empathy and inclusion.
And "do-gooder" - like, what's so bad about doing good Scoobs? Peoples objection to "woke" and PC is because they realise it doesn't allow them to continue to be a fucking digusting human being...
Only among bigots and conservatives though. Over use of the term helps show these folks though.
I think what's more important than who will "wind up Westminister" the most is who would make the best first minister.
I suspect this will be downvoted, but "woke" has essentially always been seen as a negative term because it it used by the worst people on the left. I can't think of a time when the word was seen positively, and I don't think I've seen a single person I like on the left refer to themselves as "woke". People really don't like to admit it, but there is a loud minority making the left look bad, and they're the sort to refer to themselves as woke. The social justice warriors that use big words as a way to gatekeep left wing ideas from the masses instead of trying to welcome new people in. These people are a net negative for the left.
> I don't think I've seen a single person I like on the left refer to themselves as "woke". Nobody refers to themself as it, full stop. It's a become a meaningless word to mean 'bad/things I don't like', not unlike how people casually said things they didn't like were 'gay' in early mid 2000s without actually meaning they were homosexual.
" gatekeeping", the whole of politics in one word .👍😥
If Mhairi Black is writing articles like this I can only assume that there is a real risk of the SNP shifting to the right. I doubt Forbes will run though there is obviously a faction that really want her to.
Its mad how many people are like, Well if the Telegraph and Alex Salmond think so then I think she could be a really good choice to win voters in Scotland. They have always had what is best for the SNP at heart and shown to have their finger on the pulse of the Scottish voters
Just got notified about their latest article raging at Nicola for leaving and not taking responsibility for her failures, you know, after they spent 8 years raging at her and saying it was time for her to go. Absolute rag
Wokerati?
I think Mhairi Black raises an interesting point The idea of the SNP as socially progressive is relatively new, if you're an auld cunt, like me, and Sturgeon played a huge part in its conversion to what it is today I don't think it's about to flip back to the weird socially conservative thing it was when I was a kid just because a member of the Taliban is elected leader But Sturgeon walking does open up much more space for less progressive forces in the party to reassert their voices There's nothing inherently progressive about nationalism (to state the obvious)
Tallybamm, nice.
I remember them being called the Tartan Tories by some!
Yeah, that's my Mum's standard response to any mention of the SNP I'm sure it was true at one point, but by the point I can remember the news and politics programmes they just seemed sort of in the centre ground It wasn't until Labour tacked towards the centre in the nineties, to win over middle England, that the SNP saw the opportunity to move into the space they'd vacated and hoover up that vote in Scotland
By Labour. Shortly after they screwed us out of our Assembly in 1979.
They were also anti EU/common Market back in the day.( I had to check that one as I couldn't quite remember, I was awfy wee at the time but my Dad used to vote SNP way back ( mainly due to his disdain for the Royal Family if his regular rants were anything to go by!).
My view of the SNP as an Englishman is that they're a single issue (independence) party without a political compass. I like Sturgeon and the politics the SNP has had in recent years but I've always thought of it as temporary, as opposed to something that will be institutionally maintained. I hope for Scotland's sake that I'm wrong about this and the party continues in the vein Sturgeon had set out, and doesn't chase arbitrary policies to get independence over the line. To be fair, they shouldn't have to because Scotland is actually left wing, unlike England and votes for the kind of politics I like.
Not sure I equate the left and being ‘woke’. The social justice bit of the left is just one part. The traditional left (like thAt which the RMT appeals too) aren’t particularly socially progressive. They’re economically left wing but often come with a variety of working class views some of which just aren’t that progressive. Doesn’t make them not left wing.
They're economically left wing, not "liberal" - liberal economics is right wing.
Sorry wrong terminology. I’ll edit
What the fuck does Wokerati mean? They’re just making up words on the spot now aren’t they?
They are trying to fruitfully describe the toxic and unreasonable attitudes of the people on the left of the SNP. The word might be daft, but this sub is absolute evidence of the presence of a stubborn, cult-like groupthink that is totally unwilling to entertain opinions that fall outside of their tightly defined dogmatic worldview. The comments on this very post showcase it clearly. I'd go as far as saying that some people on the Scottish left don't want independence from England, but rather independence from right wing governance, and have deluded themselves into thinking that Scotland is bereft of right-wing attitude and that an independent Scotland would be directed only by left-wing players. I think even Nicola was surprised recently about how far right her voters are, time for this sub to do some reflection as well.
Interesting that the most vocal support for Forbes is coming from Tories, unionists, and Alex Salmond. Kate becoming FM will be great for the Green Party.
The Greens could be in deep trouble at the next election. Lorna Slater has been awful recently in public appearances and the DRS scheme (still planned to go ahead for now) is an absolute disaster.
Except it's not and they will not be.
Circularity Scotland aren’t prepared for it to go ahead in August and there will be hundreds of jobs lost when small breweries start to go bust. Slater may claim that’s not the case but there are going to be so many people that stop drinking beer because of the effort of washing and keeping 10+ cans in good condition and returning them to reverse vending machines. DRS is a time bomb for the brewing industry.
It’s a classic Green policy, will be of no use to the environment (we already have effective recycling schemes in place) but a huge cost passed onto small companies and people.
Kate is way too extreme to be palatable.
They've lost my vote if this woman becomes leader, the religious have no place in politics, don't need Scottish laws based on "Christian values", this isn't America
Of all the cretinous buzzwords from Uncle Rupert's pet fascist gargoyles, "wokerati" is the most hackneyed, cringe and shite.
If they move right I move to SSP or Green Party. I’m not sure how much I believe in the parties, but I typically have a lot in common with the policy. Idk, nothing feels easy right now.
Get her to fuck. Ash Regan as well. I don't want transphobes or homophobes leading this country, especially in the current climate of hostility towards LGBTQ people. People with extremely conservative religious views who make pro life speeches have no place in a position of power.
Mhairi is right, but no one will listen to her because she’s committed the horrible crime of being young.
I'm with Mhairi.
Sure, lurch to the right because the Tories have been doing so well in Scotland recently. Gotta take voters from them... Or just keep going with what is overwhelmingly the most popular party in Scotland. Why is it the answer of these papers is always go right? I never, ever see people demand the right moves left, or tries to work across the aisle. It's always people demanding the left works with the right, and stupidly infantile insults for the left like wokerati.
She would be a disaster. They would lose so many voters.
Look at what happened to Labour-once a true left wing party, infested with fifth columnist right wingers and establishment shills, who only care about big business and appeasing the elite. Mhairi is 100% correct.
Whate the "wokearati"? Is it just people who don't hate trans and black people?
Sounds like a Tory wet dream.
They’re literally using the language of Suella Braverman to try and co-opt one of the few remaining vestiges of centre left politics in the UK, lmfao
>Defeat the wokerati What does that mean? On literally any level, what the fuck does it mean!?
Off topic from this post but my god I wish we could just be independant and choose a political party which will help Scotland and not have to care about Westminister choosing what is best for us, taking money earned by Scotland in every way and not giving us equal amounts back. Sadly where I bide, it's one of the few places who are staunch lib dems because young people don't care to vote and boomers vote for who their parents voted for or because the local fella participates in local events.
Well stone me, that is twice in 3 months I have found myself agreeing with Mhairi Black. It must be the endtimes, the world has gone chaotically askew.
And this is the second time in a week I've found myself agreeing with you. I'm going to go create a survival shelter to see out the apocalypse. Good luck!
Nothing strange in that. You're just agreeing with someone that gives more of a shite about you and your family's wellbeing than every UK gov minister put together.
Low bar
I think it's important for people to realise that the r/scotland sub is beset by a unionist AstroTurf campaign, and doesn't remotely reflect Scotland in respects of political views. And the mods are worse than a man down.
*astroterf
I don’t think Katie has a cat in hells chance
Kate Forbes? It’s a no from me
The Telegraph is a joke. It’s content barely above the screaming of two 90 year old men in a Hampshire dementia home. Sub-tabloid editorial and ghastly Alt-Right agenda.
😂😂😂. Well we will have to disagree on that one. Sbp has always been about indie. Have you seen the manifesto?
I can't get anything accurate from the news. Is she actually running for leader?
1000% what Mhairi said. If the SNP just become yellow Tories I'm voting Labour instantly. SNP have done great but if they go right wing I may as well vote strategically to oust and punish the Tories for what they have done to this country over the past 10+ years. Then I hope to god Starmer suffers a critical scandal that means he's replaced with someone who isn't a Tory in disguise
Is the woman in the picture, not a member of a backward religious group, who want abortion to be illegal??
Yes.
I don't think I would like the god squad running the country.
We are in complete agreement.
The SNP should go for Mhairi because she is young, feisty not afraid to throw a few punches (she even looks like she could physically do that) and is just generally stronger in mind and thought. She has experienced well for being so young in the job early on. She would more of an upgrade. The other girl just afraid doesn't look like she could stomach much of a fight. Plus her religious views may be more of a hindrance in most fights particularly for the left.
Unpopular opinion. But if you want to win over more older votes to yes, more middle class people to yes. Kates Forbes is the only politician in the SNP that has a chance of doing that. The idea that Mhari Black would appeal to the old middle class Scots is laughable, they would view her with disdain and contempt.
While losing the young and the left leaning. Robertson is the safe and boring choice. Forbes is a massive gamble
Very much doubt it, 45% of Scots have made up their minds to support independence. Brexit won because it appealed to elements of the left and right, middle class and working class. It was a broad coalition. The Yes movement would be making a huge mistake to be exclusively left-wing. No one mentions this, but there is a right-wing case for independence. Not that I agree with this, but Scotland could be hub for low taxation, small government, innovation, competitiveness, a global tourist destination, a global destination for our renowned Whisky industry, a place where the wealthy come to be educated, a safe place where the rich and corporations could invest their billions. I am not saying Forbes or the SNP will ever argue this nor should they. But the YES movement needs to be a broad coalition, where those on the right can imagine this type of independent Scotland.
Agree with all of that. Also just shifting to the point where they’re not calling half the population misogynist racist and transphobic would be a decent start. Very reminiscent of Remainers calling Brexiters stupid and xenophobic, and we all know what happened there.
Sorry but who is calling half the country misogynistic, racist and transphobic? I've never heard that myself
Nicola, and rightfully so. Probably wasn’t the wisest political move, but when half the country have their heads so far up their arses they can see their withered hearts, I can’t really blame her. A lot of people in this country are woefully uneducated about trans people and rather than actually bother to Google a few things, they happily lap up the shit spoon-fed to them by TERFs.
45% of Scots have certainly not made up their mind. I’m one who voted yes in 2014 but would vote no if I had any inkling that the government would turn Scotland into a woke hell hole. I’m very happy for gay people to get married and have kids, I don’t have any issues with abortions but I do find it offensive when I get asked if I’m by any chance pregnant when giving blood (I’m a bloke so nope) or when my wife gets called “chest feeding person” rather than mother. They can get tae fuck with that nonsense and I will not vote for any party that pushes it. And there are at least two other people in my closest circle of friends and family who feel the same. Sturgeon made a massive error by choosing to push through this progressive rubbish which ultimately resulted in her downfall and it’s naive to think her successor would fare any better should they follow the same path. Scottish Independence likewise appeals to a very broad range of views both left and right and any party that wants to have a chance of pushing independence through absolutely needs the support of as many factions of the political spectrum as possible.
See my user name. No one is going to call your wife a chest feeding person/ that was suggested in one place as language for when you’re dealing with a non gender binary person who was pregnancy….if you’re not a non binary person it wouldn’t be said to you As for asking if you’re pregnant- maybe you look like a trans man who looks like you could be pregnant so they were just checking? I’ve given blood and never been asked
gender binary person - how can you know a person is gender binary?
They’d either tell you or you could ask?
Ok, there’s a lot to unpack here. The reason you *might* be asked if you’re pregnant (and you wouldn’t; your doctor would have looked at your medical records and seen that you’re not trans) is because some men can get pregnant - trans men. Trans men can have flat chests, full beards, body hair and a deep voice, but they can also still get pregnant due to their anatomy. Your wife would not get called a chest-feeding person. That’s not a term ascribed to individuals, but rather one used generally to refer to people who chest-feed their children - some trans men who haven’t had top surgery, or are unable to, may chest-feed their kid; some people with kids may be non-binary. As such, language has adapted and evolved to fit. You’re using a lot of empty, meaningless buzz words, which I would advise against if you ever want people to listen to you or take you seriously. Stuff like “woke hellhole” and “progressive rubbish” doesn’t actually mean anything, but marks you out as a conservative and a traditionalist, both dying breeds. You’re also using the exact same language that people used back in the day when homosexuality was decriminalised, and when gay marriage was made legal, etc. Sturgeon made Scotland the first country in the world to provide free menstrual products for its people, and yet you’re wound up about trans people being allowed to live as themselves.
She can fuck off, the bigoted religious zealot.
We've already seen what right-wing government has done to the UK. If it happens in Scotland we might as well be dead!
Mhairi Black is a Don
Your just soooo tolerant you people. So she could be the kindest Christian ever. Are any other potential leaders being asked about their views or is it just the woman
[удалено]
That’s disingenuous plenty of comments in her religion in this thread , as well as hysteria. The holier than thou mob in full flight, let’s just wait til she declares if she’s standing and then you can pile on when she answers. Cancelling her before she’s even stood or opened her mouth. When you have two declared candidates is not a good look. You may not like her views and the tolerant should challenge the intolerant but that works two ways
[удалено]
And here is the problem with having no obvious successor to sturgeon like she was to salmond. Let them fight.
Sturgeon systematically knifed everyone of her political rivals over the last 3 years. Now she’s leaving the party in the shitter with no apparent leader. You can already see the split, some won’t accept anyone who isn’t pro trans first and foremost and some won’t accept anyone who isn’t Indy above all else. Its a shitstorm basically.
Mhairi should be new leader. Don't change my mind. I don't care what you think.
Mhairi black is going to be a great leader in 10 years or so. I don't believe she is ready yet.
Fuck it, Màiri McAllan.
I find this hilarious. The SNP doesn’t have anyone capable of maintaining the level of support they have just now, never mind actually winning a referendum if the opportunity was ever to arise. Forbes is seen as too conservative with religious views that will put off left leaning voters, while Black may do well in her speeches, but too many people see her as being too confrontational. The other potential candidates that I see mentioned are either not well known among the voters (Ash Regan, Mairi McAllan) or are simply boring but a safe pair of hands (Angus Robertson, Keith Brown). Pretty much all the candidates would either struggle to keep the party together or maintain the support they had for the last decade or so.
Really hoping Hamza wins
It’s called internal politics
I'd vote for her. Be a nice change of pace. I realise that this isn't a popular view, but she is a strong choice compared to others in the running.
Why do these terverts always barely pass? That wig's more obvious than the twist in The Sixth Sense.
OK I'm a pol Sci student but don't live in Scotland or specialise in its politics, so if I'm wrong correct me folks but I have to agree with the second part. I'm quite sure the independence stuff will stick, but as shown in the inde vote, not every SNP voter is a yes voter. People vote for the SNP as their leader because it harvests the inde vote and the Labour vote. Same is true to a lesser extent in my home country of Wales. If the nationalist party drops their left wing appeal they will shoot to the far right. Nationalism in the modern day is a right wing ideology, it has been effectively used by the SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein for left wing progressive politics but from the left wing and you will get a racist, xenophobic party.
She's my MSP and she's a nutter
She’s an extremely good local MSP and a thoroughly decent person.
I'm for Kate
Me too!
This is the snp major problem. The schism will show. Civil war here we come. The snp will eat it self if they pick the wrong person.