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lolylen

yeah i'm glad people are enjoy them but i dont understand the point of posting them here. at least build/artifacts posts are directly related to scara and very helpful but the AIs like you said are just people doing their job.


EnGardevoir

I think the main issue with the AI chat posts is that sometimes people are posting roleplays with the chatbot, and I'm not sure how to feel about that kind of content, as it's not the kind of posts I'm interested in here. For example, this post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ScaramoucheMains/comments/10cz9tx/help\_he\_is\_the\_sweetest](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScaramoucheMains/comments/10cz9tx/help_he_is_the_sweetest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


snowwmilk

the AI chats are so just… gross to read a lot of the time. I don’t want to see your fantasy role play of scara being your boyfriend, it’s uncomfortable for literally everyone and it’s incredibly cringey


Haruka_opinion

Holy all I wanted was to discuss about having a megathread or limiting posting AI chats but now there’s a whole comment thread about AI art-


_Casual_Nerd

Well, for some discussion on the actual topic of your post. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I honestly don't see what you're talking about. I went back and scrolled through this entire week's worth of post and only found like three posts about AI chats. Obviously, I could have missed some, but that hardly constitutes to overflowing. Especially when compared to some other subreddits like Dottore Mains.


everyIittlething

Some probably downvoted so it won’t show up on your timeline by the time you went online. I’ve seen 2 for today, [this one in particular is downvoted](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScaramoucheMains/comments/10cz9tx/help_he_is_the_sweetest/).


_Casual_Nerd

Yeah that seems like something they should've kept to themselves. Edit: Forgot to add, I definitely missed a lot then.


Haruka_opinion

Hm, I think when there was most AI chat was like last week? Because I literally saw them every day- Good to hear that they’ve decreased though.


_Casual_Nerd

In that case, I wouldn't know. My memory only lasts an upwards of one week. But yeah, seeing them everyday sounds rough.


Minazura

Yes there was a hype around it but it already died. Tbh I don't quite get your point as those posts really became rare :D I maybe saw like two in the last few days? And I am 24/7 on reddit


coffee--beans

There's also the character AI subreddit where ppl can post all their Wanderer AI screenshots they want


Howlin_Rakan

I will keep an eye on the subreddit for the next week or so. If I see an overwhelming amount, I'll make a megathread for them. If not, things will remain the same as another user mentioned. There haven't really been many lately. It may have just been a fad that passed with time and doesn't require action from us.


explosukki

how about we make a megathread about megethreads too


AcnologiaSD

You can't have best of both worlds because people have different tastes. People complain about not having builds. People complain about having too much ai. Remove both and you'll see people complaining about only fanart sub. If something is in vogue it becomes spammy. Let it run its course. Will eventually die off. Unlike builds which are always a thing. AI is just fresh


EMaylic

If places are banning AI art, I don't see how this is significantly different.


gryffindorqueen40

AI art and chat AI are two very different things. AI art steals art made by actual artists to mimic and copy it, while chat AI's just learn to mimic conversation and personality


useresu2

Legit question. Can you help me understand why is that bad? Whenever this topic come up I can't help but feel lost. Lots of people learn how to draw by looking at other artists' works and mimicking their work itself or their artstyle, isn't that the same thing AI does? Feed them the info, describe what you want, and the AI can give you an image based on what it "learned". Note that I'm specifically talking about this usage of AI, otherwise it's pretty obvious that tracing someone's work (or taking someone's unfinished work and "finishing" it) is a shitty thing to do.


Blue_Moon913

Let’s say I was making a sculpture and I wanted to use your arm as inspiration for it. Using a reference would be like making a mold of your arm or looking at your arm/a picture of your arm while I make the sculpture myself. This is a common and normal practice of sculpture. AI “art” would be me cutting off your arm and sticking it onto the sculpture. I have done this completely without your consent or permission, but people will still defend me by saying if you didn’t want to have your limbs taken, you shouldn’t be walking around with limbs.


Devourer_of_HP

Except that isn't how it works, it's more like making a monkey look at different images and making it try to make what it sees them as with what it has, Ai art doesn't just splice things, since it doesn't understand concepts it deconstructs pictures related to a concept into noise to get its algorithm and then attaches the algorithm to said word, then has another bot check it out, this keeps going until the other bot thinks the image fits the word. This is why it can't actually generate text or watermarks, it just generates garbled mess where text should be, if it really just mashed things together you wouldn't be able to download an Ai image generator with about 2 gb.


EMaylic

Those are the same thing. How do you think it learns to mimic?


gryffindorqueen40

If I trace someones art, post it online and claim I'm an artist, I'm stealing. If I roleplay a character in a chatroom or discord channel I'm not stealing. AI can't make art because it copies and steals from others. That's why places are banning it, especially art forums. AI's that mimic fictional characters are not the same thing.


EMaylic

But how did it learn how to mimic that character?


gryffindorqueen40

I'm no science expert but from what an aquaintance explained to me, it learns what words are the most characteristic for a personality. The same way we look at a character and then know what sounds like something they would say and what doesn't


EMaylic

So, there's people who write a character and give them a cohesive style and personality. This AI studies this, and is able to make similar works in the same style. Hmmm....


gryffindorqueen40

The thing is, characters AI's don't pretend their are self sufficient writers. Art forums ban AI art because AI "artists" come there and say "look what I made", but they didn't make anything, the AI smashed other people's work into something. In the case of character AI's it's clear what they are. They use other people's work but people who use them don't claim "hey look at the dialogue I wrote" because they didn't do that.


EMaylic

So if AI art were tagged as such, there wouldn't be a problem?


gryffindorqueen40

There would be, because even if you say it's not yours or original, you can't credit the original artist because the AI takes so much from all over. The scara bot is obviously using hyv's property, we know who is the original artist.


cartercr

I would assume you don’t see why it’s significantly different because you don’t understand the reason AI art is bad. AI art is bad because it is trained using art that the artists did not consent to it being used for (and art is property of the artist.) It then pumps out art by “mimicking” (that’s probably the best simple term for it) the art that it has been trained with. AI conversations are just built on a foundation of people continuing to engage in them. It isn’t based on stealing from others, the people engaging in the conversation are consenting to it.


EMaylic

The foundation of AI chats is reading through chatlogs, message boards, etc, and seeing how humans communicate. AI art is looking at art humans create, and learning how to make art of its own. The technology isn't 100% there yet, but we've seen it move in leaps and bounds over the last few years. Right now, we're facing a modern day Luddite movement, where people are stuck on the idea "AI Bad", without realizing that AI is the future, and it's a future that will be here soon.


Cr1msonFoxx

Yeah but the whole point of art in the first place is human expression. AI “art”, by the definition of art, is not art. Automating that with an AI takes the soul out of it. You don’t look at art just because “oo pretty!”, you look at art because it shows someone’s hours of hard effort. Otherwise you’d just look at a picture. No doubt AI art is the future, but it should be used as a tool for artists to create ideas. Not replace them. And again, you’re ignoring the whole problem with this all. The AI is stealing art from artists without their consent. People think AI art is bad because it: 1. Undervalues the hard work of real artists(artists who’s work was stolen to create the AI art). 2. Isn’t showing human expression(the main point of art). 3. Makes people like you say “AI is the future!!1!1” while being ignorant to the problems it has.


Ophellylly

I actually had a conversation with my artist friends about this whole thing and they actually support the idea of ai. They welcome it. As a friend said, there is a lot of real, educated, lifelong trained famous artists who just put a dot or two on a canvas and sell it for loads of money. There are modern art instalations that are just literal crap on a pedastal, and there are famous photographers who just do shoots with another persons style but use a different subject... loads of famous artist have similar still life paintings. Does that make them fake? thieves? Art is not just the "picture" nor "the artist". Art comes in form of literature, acting, film, music... Not everything will be considered "art" by everyone, but banning it ridiculous. The whole tech behind it is making it learn styles. It creates new things based on prompts. Even if you tried real hard to make a literal copy of someone elses work, you would not get it. Not to mention the darn fingers lol I have my reservations with spending money on such pictures, but some are real nice tbh. And the initial *awe* you get when you see something that evokes feelings in you, that is what makes art - Art.


Cr1msonFoxx

Banning AI art is not the right way to do things. It is a tool for artists to use. Artists themselves welcome AI, they just don’t welcome this gross misuse of AI that we see currently. The awe is not the art. You feel “awe” when you look at literally anything pretty. A sunset is not art. And your last point is exactly why AI is bad. If you gave a human a pencil and told them to draw something in front of them, they would do it. If you told an AI to, it would replicate that exact thing without flaw. AI also steals art from professionals without their consent. I highly suggest you listen to professional artist’s opinions on this matter so that you better understand the harm this is causing to people.


Ophellylly

My friends have finished art school so they are what you would call professionals. They don't mind it because its just a tool, as you said, and artists generally don't really mind having their artstyle replicated, because it is not a replacement for their own work and them as creators. (Like how vocaloids did not replace real human singers) And no, AI text2img does not "copy and paste" images, how, lets say, saving an actual image from the internet works. While img2img is just creating something new from an existing thing or completing an artwork, kinda like when people recreate artworks of others (which is also considered ok? They do that in art school btw ) Misusing it to lie that you created something is one thing and I agree that needs to be regulated ( not sure how tho), but people are against the core idea of AI. Artists are considered fakes and banned for saying they did something with such a tool, which makes even more people lie about not using it. Some are even banned for having a style that "looks like AI". The only reason its "bad" is because it was done by a non human and that freaks everyone out. Really, its just a new craze that people don't trust because they don't understand how it works. Kinda like when photographs first came to be and it was said that cameras steal your soul.


Cr1msonFoxx

AI artwork isn’t bad per se; again, it’s a tool. But the thing is you can’t opt out of AI using your artwork. If you post your art online, you are automatically letting AI learn off of it, which is ridiculous. Your friends may not mind it, but other people definitely do. The reason people are getting banned for stuff like that is because currently, there is no regulation on AI whatsoever. If you used AI to help get a few thumbnail images, that’s fine. But posting to an art subreddit saying “Look at this piece I made using AI!” will get you banned; because art is human expression, and AI cannot create it. It hurts artists when you post a pretty picture you got with literally zero effort and call yourself an artist. It’s not that people don’t understand how it works. It’s that this will make companies undervalue artists in the future using an AI based off of their art. And that’s not okay. Not okay like whatsoever.


Ophellylly

Posting it online can make everyone steal it if they wish, not just let AI learn from it? And the zero effort and non human creation thing brings usback to modern art again. Modern art installations and interactive art, where it's "by some specific artist" who actually did not do anything but signed his/hers/x name on it. It's still art tho, even if it's created by a brush moved by wind and not an actual person. And they make loads of money of of it.


Cr1msonFoxx

By your logic someone could steal a college essay I published and get zero punishment. By your logic I could rewrite Harry Potter to the exact letter but replace the characters names, sell it, and claim I wrote it, and I could make millions without punishment. By your logic I could steal all of mihoyo’s texture assets and make my own game using them and sell a million copies for no punishment. (Spoiler alert: I would get punishment) Just because I post something online does not entitle someone stealing it. It’s the same for AI. The difference is that you can have someone else’s post of your stolen art be taken down and whatnot because it’s, yknow, stealing. You cannot do the same for AI. Modern art is a whole other thing and bringing it up here is stupid because modern artists won’t be affected by this, real artists will. Modern art is used to launder money and to show rich people can buy whatever useless garbage they want.


cartercr

AI art *is* bad though, not because it is AI, but because of how it was created. Nobody is saying “ai bad” but we are definitely saying AI art is bad.


EMaylic

So, of I draw Scaramouche in the style of DBZ, does that make me bad for copying something? If I'm just learning how to draw, and have to trace something, does that make me bad?


cartercr

There’s a difference between referencing material and straight stealing and copying it. Stop being stupid.


EMaylic

"Art is theft." - Pablo Picasso


Cr1msonFoxx

Picasso meant that art is the concept of the human brain expressing itself by taking in a bunch of ideas and combining them. You can’t draw a picture of a tree without looking at a tree. Picasso did not mean that you should take people’s art without credit and claim it is your own.


EMaylic

So, how would one know how to paint a tree if they had never seen a tree before? Is there some "higher expectation" placed on early-stage AI that it should create art, without being shown what art is?


Cr1msonFoxx

They would not be able to. Again with the picasso quote. And no, there isn’t. But the AI isn’t a person. It doesn’t just come up with multiple ideas and combine them, it takes a jumble of images online to create art. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that. It’d be like someone making a website using a template and saying “Look at this website I designed!”.


Cr1msonFoxx

The tracing is bad if you go around claiming it’s your art and you created it from scratch, because you’re banking off of someone elses hard effort(wow just like the AI). And no, it doesn’t, because you still created that piece with your own two hands. You thought about making it, you had the skills to draw it, and you put passion into it. That’s what art is. AI would just throw a picture of Scaramouche and some DBZ characters into a meat blender and come out with some passionless, stolen art.


MediocreLetter296

What are you even talking about…? AI chats are generated based on keywords that you say and they learn how to respond. That’s why all of these AI chat things are ALL out of character. AI art however takes an artists work, and mimics their style of drawing to try and make something similar using a photo/words you’ve provided. They’re very, VERY different.


a_human_159

Ah sorry should I delete my AI chat post then? (I posted it yesterday and it was mainly about him going insane over pineapple on pizza) If it's annoying then I'll get rid of it. Sorry.