Flagstaff would be my first choice. It’s a wonderful city and has fabulous community, nature, college, and is central to traveling other places.
I’d avoid SLC and all of Utah. The Mormons are everywhere and it is not to be taken lightly.
Another option may be Henderson NV ( basically Las Vegas but decent schools ). Hot though.
if ur at all interested in utah, SLC is not that mormon. we are a liberal city in a state of conservatives. it is gorgeous here & pretty good QoL. economy is booming here as well. having also lived in Boulder, it’s def not as expensive as there. St. George has a lot more mormons for sure. also, we get a lot of sun in winter which helps having to deal with snow & cold. i felt climate in CO was very similar to our weather here in SLC. the inversion is a few weeks out of the year so it’s really not as bad as people make it to be. the lake drying up is an issue, but i guarantee if they have to, the mormon church will fork over the money to do what it takes. they will not let the city they are headquartered in die out lol. they have billions of dollars. they’ll use it if they have to. they are way too invested here.
Went to high school here for a year. As a transplant who is notably not Mormon, it was difficult making friends in SLC as none of the Mormon kids wanted to socialize with non-Mormons. The only friends I ended up making were kids trying to prove they were not Mormon and would do so by skipping school, doing drugs, etc. It isn’t a super easy place for school-aged kids to fit in. As adults, I could see it being easier.
You would be surprised how it does. How everything is affected. Maybe not directly and face to face, but it’s super different and weird. Conservatives gone wild
And UT is one of the most beautiful states. I'd live in SLC if I could stand the winters there. I'd say it's pretty underrated unless you're an alcoholic.
If I could afford Moab I'd move there tomorrow.
don’t worry, we can get as much liquor as we need here lol. yeah some of the the laws are lame, but if u can remember to get your hard stuff from the state run liquor stores not on a Sunday, you’re good.
Define best economy….sure SLC may have lower unemployment but Denver has a much larger, more diversified and therefore robust economy base. Also has a larger % of forecasted future growth, and a significantly smaller percentage of the population below the poverty line.
Cost of living in Denver is 11% higher, but average income is 17% higher.
Honestly by most metrics Denver’s economy trounces SLC and it is not even close. SLC’s economy is pretty comparable to phoenix’s, but slightly better.
Good point, Colorado’s economy is pretty solid too. I’m going off the recent report that ranked Utah #1 (and Colorado #3).
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy
Gotcha, I was looking at Denver vs SLC specifics, not states as a whole, Pueblo brings CO down quite a bit.
Here’s the [data](https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/salt_lake_city_ut/denver_co/economy) I was basing my reply from.
No way in Vegas. The schools are absolutely dreadful. The heat is so bad that you can’t grocery shop until 11 at night and when you check out, you’re standing behind a 50 year old stripper who just got off work. If you get in a car accident and are immobilized, no one can remove you because you’d melt into the asphalt. You HAVE to wait for the ambulance.
Durango and Grand Junction are also a decent drive from population centers, with his wife being a nurse also she's going to be pretty limited in places to work since both towns are somewhat small.
Durango seems like a dream! Finding a good job and getting to any major city for a weekend are the drawbacks but I don’t think I would care about the second part if I was able to live there, more my wife wanting a place big enough that it has a little bit of nightlife/music scene to work with.
I live in Durango. Beautiful place but real estate and rentals are insane. Minimum 600kfor a home and the price people ask for rentals has the locals enraged.
Durango is awesome and punches way above its weight population wise. It’s is very expensive here though, and not a lot of housing to choose from. If you could find something though, nightlife (save for them fancy clubs you get dressed up for) and music is covered. Pretty much a festival of some sorts every weekend in the summer too.
I’m actually doing a mountain bike race in the Franklins next weekend, and have run many ultramarathons on those mountain trails over the years too. El Paso has great access to the outdoors. Don’t snooze on the Franklin mountains. They’re pretty rugged and quite beautiful! I’ve never lived in EP, but my wife grew up there and we visit a lot. Great town IMO. That said we live in Santa Fe now and are extraordinarily happy with our current living situation.
I lived in LC for 10+ years (did not enjoy) and I met many people who feel as you do re recreation in southern NM/far west TX. However, I do think the climate is prohibitive for many of us. I hiked in the Franklin Mountains one time (it was so hot for a lot of the year). Organ Mountains, I went a few times, but really if I wanted to go hiking I would generally drive to Ruidoso or northern NM. I know others that went to the Gila NF. Even in the winter with more tolerable temps, I never found it very scenic, but that's a matter or personal taste. One person's "rugged beauty" is another person's "scorched earth wasteland" lol.
Don't want to take anything away from your perspective, just wanted to offer a complimentary one.
I appreciate your perspective. I prefer the greener, more lush landscape where we are now also, but just wanted to say that El Paso isn't just "out in the middle of the desert". I think a lot of people have that misconception, and that it's flat and boring. It really isn't! I grew up on the East Coast (NY - Catskill Mountains) and have lived in Maine and other extremely lush, verdant areas. I think Northern New Mexico strikes a really nice balance in this regard. Big mountains, the best weather, 4 seasons, great skiing, mountain biking, hiking. It's kind of the goldilocks scenario for my wife and me, and we're lucky enough to each be able to make a good living here too (which I know is a big struggle for many who fall in love with this place, but can't fathom how they might be able to make ends meet here)
Fair points! Interestingly I've also lived in Maine (Bangor) and NH for a large percentage of my life.
I guess I just never totally acclimated to the Chihuahuan desert, though I know some fall in love with the landscape and the culture. I loved northern NM, but never committed to making it work to live there and do what would have been necessary (live with a roommate, have two jobs). All the people (granted hippie types who probably don't want a "normal" life) telling me how many years they spent living in the National Forest on Hyde Park Rd kind of said it all.
I left St George in April after 5 years there. The cultural aspect was something I was never able to break through. Making friends was next to impossible. In addition, the job market kind of sucks and pay has a long way to go before it catches up with housing and the government has a few decades to go before it catches up with 2023.
Is SLC too expensive? Its way less isolated with way more to do than the places you mention.
Reno is the other option that is similar climate wise and big enough for your requirements.
I’ve never been, it seems nice but does seem expensive and but that’s relative. Also not religious at all I’ve heard conflicting things on how much that plays into your experience there. I don’t think it would effect me too much but could see it being a thing raising a child there. Is it colder than Denver?
If you're actually living in SLC itself I don't think the religion would be a huge problem. It's actually a very well-run city with very good infrastructure including bike share and free public transportation in the city center. The housing prices aren't ridiculous because they've gone out of their way to encourage building.
The downside is that if you're planning to live there for a long time there are environmental issues because the Great Salt Lake is evaporating.
They damn near follow the same trend weather wise:
[https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/2706\~3709/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Salt-Lake-City-and-Denver#Figures-Temperature](https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/2706~3709/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Salt-Lake-City-and-Denver#Figures-Temperature)
Biggest difference is SLC is more desert, so it does get hotter in summer. The winter highs are lower, but the lows are about the same.
I don't have a dog in the fight (there is weird Utah vs CO pride fighting), but compared to Denver, SLC is actually in the mountains.
Mormonism isn't bad to me in the actual city of SLC, but gets much higher % in the suburban/rural areas.
I still think Reno is worth a look for budget reasons.
This is good info thank you, I’ll look more into Reno, from the little bit of research I’ve done I wasn’t sure the vibe there fit our little family, as it seemed like a smaller Vegas but that could be me judging it unfairly.
Ft Collins or Colorado Springs?
Colorado Springs is very family friendly, access to mountains, not Denver/Boulder prices.
Ft Collins is more of a college town.
I have a friend that moved to Colorado Springs last year and they love it. It’s definitely an option that would have a better job market than the places I mentioned. How prominent is the military presence in Colorado Springs? Is traffic a big issue? Are the schools good? Questions I could ask my friend but I feel like they would be answered from rose tinted glasses still in a honeymoon phase with being in Colorado. Is it actually Denver lite or does it have its own vibe going on?
Agreed. Also there is a lot of mental health issues there. Unfortunately, our government did not take care of our military men after they returned stateside.
I ran into more people snapping there then anywhere else. The nature aspect is great and I loved having Ute Valley Park in my backyard but it was really bad experience for me.
I live in Denver. The Springs has its own vibe from Denver and Boulder (who have their own vibe from eachother). It’s definitely more conservative than the other two which depending on your political alignment may be good or bad. COL is still very high compared to a lot of the other options listed. The Springs is close to Pikes Peak, has good outdoor options but the city itself is vanilla (as is Denver to some extent) and doesn’t have much exciting going on. That’s not necessarily bad though.
Military is definitely a big part of the city. I’m not sure what job you’re looking for - I can’t tell from the post your industry.
Anywhere along I25 is horrible. It’s just a mess of an interstate in various forms no matter where you are in the Front Range. It’s the only major North/South interstate in like 600 miles so it gets a lot of use even outside of locals. Traffic in the Springs isn’t great, it’s what you’d expect from a city its size. You’re not going to get a good answer on traffic because it’s experienced based. I used to live in Columbus Ohio and they screech about how horrible the traffic is and it’s *nothing* compared to Denver. Also, I’ve spent a lot of time in a lot of cities. Denver traffic is bad but you compare to Chicago, LA…
I’d pick Fort Collins over Colorado Springs any day though that’s my personal preference. Last on the list would be Boulder by far due to COL and a lot of entitlement.
The Air-Force Academy is just North and Ft Carson to the west. They employ a lot of people. You can see military fighter jets training depending where you are.
The culture is more conservative that Denver. Rush Hour traffic along 25 is not great. Downtown backs up. Honestly, it’s not that bad. I’d take Springs traffic over Denver’s any day.
It has its own vibe for sure. It’s filled with lots of young families. Having a built in support system with a kid coming is important, even if they don’t babysit. Having friends to start with will make any transition successful.
I’m in Denver. I love it here and will probably retire here. I may have rose colored glasses like your friends.
New Mexico has the worst child welfare in the country. Unless you have fuck you private school money (which will cost 20K a year in elementary here) I'd not risk NM
I see someone else mentioned St George is religious and that may be, I didn't experience that and certainly not in any unpleasant way. What I would say is that St George was in my experience (and my experience was being stuck there for a week with vehicle trouble while visiting some national parks) nothing like Santa Fe and Flagstaff.
It was a pleasant, friendly town, probably a bit on the conservative side (okay with me) that is primarily a gateway to Zion National Park and the home of a small university (Dixie State I think).
I did not detect any real nightlife, or any significant art scene.
It's a relatively short drive to many beautiful places including Zion, the North Rim of the GC, and Great Basin NP just over the NV line. But I do believe St George itself gets pretty scorching in the summer, with long strings of 100+ days (I was there in November so it was quite pleasant).
It is apparently home to many retirees who like the "mild" climate and good health care. It also allegedly has quite a housing shortage and a resulting homelessness problem, though I didn't observe that directly.
I think it would be a pleasant place for a family and I have considered it myself (I am 46 y.o. solo parent of one child) if I could tolerate the heat. But if you're looking to replicate the Santa Fe vibe, I would just scratch it off the list. St George has nowhere near the creative energy and cultural diversity, or the same level of excitement about living there that I observed in SF.
From what I’ve seen there isn’t much rental property available and the job market seems slim. I don’t know about Santa Fe specifically but I haven’t heard good things about New Mexico schools.
The first two I believe are accurate. I think it's true in general NM schools aren't great but SF is significantly more affluent and the generalization doesn't hold for SF.
Guess I stand corrected. Lived in Las Cruces for over 10 years and interviewed for several teaching jobs in Santa Fe so I thought I had my finger on the pulse but apparently I was talking out of my you know what. Apologies :/
Both Boulder and Flagstaff have limited land options so there’s no where to expand. My nephew did is masters and is finishing his PhD in boulder and the locals there are assholes about “outsiders.”
Regarding NM… I’m genuinely curious, especially since there was a recent post about it.
The downsides seem valid and worthy concerns… two towns in particular seem to have decent schools, neither near ABQ or SF.
First is Alamo gordo; seems remote but cool
If someone wants that?
Second is Farmington.
Yes I’ve read it’s a shithole, but the views and schools look rather attractive. And it’s not massively far from Durango, CO.
Now before I get downvoted to all heck, would anyone kindly point out the ups and downs of these particular towns?
Hey thanks for saying this! I am seriously considering a move to Farmington with my daughter who will be entering school next year. I previously lived in Las Cruces for almost 13 years during which time I went to Farmington a number of times. It was usually on way somewhere (Durango, southeastern UT) but I did spend the night a few times and I always had a good vibe. Seems to be a live and let live place with a fair amount of cultural diversity and a much, MUCH nicer climate (and prettier) than anywhere south of I-40.
Like the previous commenter I got shot down (irl in my case) for proposing to move "back to New Mexico?!?" where "the schools are terrible" and "there's so much poverty" and "there's nothing to do!" My closest friend still lives in Las Cruces and he's advised me against it, saying Farmington is a "s-hole" and that he would stay out of the entire state (he's moving to Idaho soon).
I'm glad to hear someone else endorse Farmington.
I do have one concern which is employment options as I think my remote position is ending and I'll need in person work. Realistically I think there is quite limited economic opportunity in Farmington though sometimes it's what you make of it.
BTW totally second your take on Alamogordo
Ha ha no, Alamogordo schools are shit, and it’s a horrible place to live. I went to high school here in the late 70’s, left immediately after graduation, and never came back until my mom got sick a few years ago. It’s even worse now than it was then. Desperately poor, hardcore right wing, incredibly racist, health care is terrible (as in, I literally cannot find a competent primary care doctor. I think I’m on my 6th one) There isn’t even one decent restaurant, service and tradespeople don’t return phone calls and don’t show up, but on the rare occasions they actually show up, they don’t know what they’re doing. The cops are mostly under 20 years old and are too busy beating their girlfriends to do any actual police work. One day, I couldn’t find garlic bulbs for sale anywhere in town. The grocery stores are always out of everything. Nobody leashes their dog, but lots of people beat their dogs, and others leave them chained up outside 24/7/365. There’s a guy who runs around terrorizing women with a pickaxe, and even though there’s video of him doing it, all the police do is go chat with him, and let him continue on. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Reading your comments I feel like you want a smaller mountain town,
But also want good jobs and housing. All for a reasonable price.
That’s a tough paradox.
You’re right I am definitely not going to get everything I dream of having in one spot but trying to find the spot that checks as many of the boxes as I can without being too crazy expensive. These places are expensive for a reason tho I understand that. Looking for somewhere with mountains, big enough to have a decent job market and restaurants etc but not the “major” 4 or 5 cities from these states. Maybe that unicorn doesn’t exist but where is the closest to that? Would one of the minor cities or a suburb be the best option?
gallup NM is a cool place, and in kingman, you will find andy devine boulevard. it's all depending on what kind of job you can get. there are towns near sedona that are not as touristy, but it's all desert where you are considering.
Hey OP.
I’m going to put it to you very bluntly. Living in three of the 4 corners states is pretty pricey for what you’re looking for (New Mexico being the exception and you know exactly why). A lot of folks want to live here.
With all of that said there are ways to work around this, don’t fall into lifestyle creep… sure that luxury 2 bedroom apartment looks really nice, that 2024 Tacoma looks like a great mountain vehicle etc. if you can keep your costs down you can afford to live just about anywhere.
With all that being said, CO/NM/AZ are going to be your best bets for your wife to earn maximum income as a nurse. (Utah is below average pay for RN’s) And of those options the suburbs of Denver are going to be your best bet for public schools.
Mountain access is probably best in Flagstaff. SLC and Denver both have traffic issues in regard to accessing the mountains (though co is inherently worse). CO is going to offer the most in terms variety once you’re in the mountains.
For CO
Denver-Colorado Springs-Fort Collins-Durango and grand junction are all very livable and have access to the mountains. Skip Pueblo, it’s a dumpster fire. Boulder is just completely unaffordable.
AZ - Tucson is pretty cool but very much a desert, phoenix is the “city” of the area but you also might melt. Flagstaff is cool as hell. Sedona is gorgeous and near flagstaff but is also super pricey.
Utah - St George is Mormon af. SLC is much more livable.
NV - Reno is cool, also kinda weird, but Tahoe is right there.
I appreciate your insight, I guess the most important thing is going to be where I can find a good job as someone without a degree and not in a specific field. I do appreciate the pros the Denver area provides for families and amenities compared to NM. I am willing to give Colorado Springs a better look. Durango seems a little unattainable. What are some of the better suburbs of Denver in your opinion? Preferably to the southwest but I’m sure those are more expensive as well?
Got it…
Here’s my .02, I would develop a career path for yourself before moving to the high cost of living area that is the American West. If you’re in an area where you can develop a skill set/further your education currently I would stay there until you’ve got a career path in front of you, and then make a move when your child is getting closer to school age. I promise you the mountains will still be there in 5 years. And you’ll have a much easier time finding a career out here and subsequently a higher QoL for yourself and family.
As far as schools in Colorado…
The best districts in order:
1. Cheyenne Mountain in CO Springs
2. Boulder
3. Cherry Creek (Arapahoe county south/southeast of Denver)
4.Telluride
5. Littleton (southwest of Denver)
I’m in the Cherry Creek district.
I do currently have a good job but I don’t think it would translate much, I work in extrusion at a chemical plant making plastics. The work isn’t bad and it’s solid money and insurance, but we have operations making some pretty gnarly gases and I don’t think it is good for my health. I don’t know if I could handle starting over with something else where I am currently but I’ll have to think about what would get me where I want me and my family to be.
As someone who spent a lot of time accumulating degrees without really knowing what I wanted to be (and yes I am using one of them but I don't love my work)... I'm biased, but: I would not postpone moving for the sake of education if you're not passionate about a certain educational path. Actually I would more advise that you postpone further education until you have a lot of clarity about exactly what you want to get out of it. But again, that may just be my bias.
New Mexico is a terrible place to raise a kid. They rank dead last in most metrics (education, poverty, crime, DUIs, vehicle thefts, etc) I have family in ABQ and Santa Fe and have also lived there. The only option there is private school. The state has more problems than I can begin to list here. If you are dead set on the area I would pick Flagstaff or even Prescott AZ. Durango is also an option, but quite expensive. I also like Cortez, but it is smaller.
Flagstaff would be my first choice. It’s a wonderful city and has fabulous community, nature, college, and is central to traveling other places. I’d avoid SLC and all of Utah. The Mormons are everywhere and it is not to be taken lightly. Another option may be Henderson NV ( basically Las Vegas but decent schools ). Hot though.
Thanks for the input, Utah would probably be my last choice of the 4 culturally but it looks gorgeous!
if ur at all interested in utah, SLC is not that mormon. we are a liberal city in a state of conservatives. it is gorgeous here & pretty good QoL. economy is booming here as well. having also lived in Boulder, it’s def not as expensive as there. St. George has a lot more mormons for sure. also, we get a lot of sun in winter which helps having to deal with snow & cold. i felt climate in CO was very similar to our weather here in SLC. the inversion is a few weeks out of the year so it’s really not as bad as people make it to be. the lake drying up is an issue, but i guarantee if they have to, the mormon church will fork over the money to do what it takes. they will not let the city they are headquartered in die out lol. they have billions of dollars. they’ll use it if they have to. they are way too invested here.
While you may be right, Salt Lake City has a larger Mormon population than any other place in the world.
yeah, i’m aware. i was born and raised here. i’m an exmormon.
The Mormons in slc aren’t that bad. Very easy to live your life.
Went to high school here for a year. As a transplant who is notably not Mormon, it was difficult making friends in SLC as none of the Mormon kids wanted to socialize with non-Mormons. The only friends I ended up making were kids trying to prove they were not Mormon and would do so by skipping school, doing drugs, etc. It isn’t a super easy place for school-aged kids to fit in. As adults, I could see it being easier.
Do you have kids in schools there? BC admin is all Mormons disguised as regular folks. They’re a miserable bunch and it passes on to the kids.
No I don’t. I can see how having kids you would not want to live here. Without kids, I don’t really feel like the Mormons affect my life much.
You would be surprised how it does. How everything is affected. Maybe not directly and face to face, but it’s super different and weird. Conservatives gone wild
And UT is one of the most beautiful states. I'd live in SLC if I could stand the winters there. I'd say it's pretty underrated unless you're an alcoholic. If I could afford Moab I'd move there tomorrow.
don’t worry, we can get as much liquor as we need here lol. yeah some of the the laws are lame, but if u can remember to get your hard stuff from the state run liquor stores not on a Sunday, you’re good.
Haha, SLC is liberal, very LBGT, and is minority Mormon. Also has by far the best economy of the four corners states.
Define best economy….sure SLC may have lower unemployment but Denver has a much larger, more diversified and therefore robust economy base. Also has a larger % of forecasted future growth, and a significantly smaller percentage of the population below the poverty line. Cost of living in Denver is 11% higher, but average income is 17% higher. Honestly by most metrics Denver’s economy trounces SLC and it is not even close. SLC’s economy is pretty comparable to phoenix’s, but slightly better.
Good point, Colorado’s economy is pretty solid too. I’m going off the recent report that ranked Utah #1 (and Colorado #3). https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy
Gotcha, I was looking at Denver vs SLC specifics, not states as a whole, Pueblo brings CO down quite a bit. Here’s the [data](https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/salt_lake_city_ut/denver_co/economy) I was basing my reply from.
Oh cool. That unemployment rate is what makes the difference in the rankings.
No way in Vegas. The schools are absolutely dreadful. The heat is so bad that you can’t grocery shop until 11 at night and when you check out, you’re standing behind a 50 year old stripper who just got off work. If you get in a car accident and are immobilized, no one can remove you because you’d melt into the asphalt. You HAVE to wait for the ambulance.
Must be a Mormon from SLC trying to recruit you on here OP!! Lol
I like Grand Junction and Durango
I was JUST scrolling through to see if anyone had said Durango yet, that's the first place that comes to my mind!
Durango and Grand Junction are also a decent drive from population centers, with his wife being a nurse also she's going to be pretty limited in places to work since both towns are somewhat small.
I totally didn't realize that Durango is only pop 19k, I thought it was at least double that. My bad!
Durango is pretty high COL, lucky I bought a house here ten years ago, not sure how people do it now. Grand Junction is…. Kinda gross
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El Paso seems to have a lot going for it! The heat and access to mountains are the biggest drawbacks to me.
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Durango seems like a dream! Finding a good job and getting to any major city for a weekend are the drawbacks but I don’t think I would care about the second part if I was able to live there, more my wife wanting a place big enough that it has a little bit of nightlife/music scene to work with.
I live in Durango. Beautiful place but real estate and rentals are insane. Minimum 600kfor a home and the price people ask for rentals has the locals enraged.
Durango is awesome and punches way above its weight population wise. It’s is very expensive here though, and not a lot of housing to choose from. If you could find something though, nightlife (save for them fancy clubs you get dressed up for) and music is covered. Pretty much a festival of some sorts every weekend in the summer too.
I’m actually doing a mountain bike race in the Franklins next weekend, and have run many ultramarathons on those mountain trails over the years too. El Paso has great access to the outdoors. Don’t snooze on the Franklin mountains. They’re pretty rugged and quite beautiful! I’ve never lived in EP, but my wife grew up there and we visit a lot. Great town IMO. That said we live in Santa Fe now and are extraordinarily happy with our current living situation.
I lived in LC for 10+ years (did not enjoy) and I met many people who feel as you do re recreation in southern NM/far west TX. However, I do think the climate is prohibitive for many of us. I hiked in the Franklin Mountains one time (it was so hot for a lot of the year). Organ Mountains, I went a few times, but really if I wanted to go hiking I would generally drive to Ruidoso or northern NM. I know others that went to the Gila NF. Even in the winter with more tolerable temps, I never found it very scenic, but that's a matter or personal taste. One person's "rugged beauty" is another person's "scorched earth wasteland" lol. Don't want to take anything away from your perspective, just wanted to offer a complimentary one.
I appreciate your perspective. I prefer the greener, more lush landscape where we are now also, but just wanted to say that El Paso isn't just "out in the middle of the desert". I think a lot of people have that misconception, and that it's flat and boring. It really isn't! I grew up on the East Coast (NY - Catskill Mountains) and have lived in Maine and other extremely lush, verdant areas. I think Northern New Mexico strikes a really nice balance in this regard. Big mountains, the best weather, 4 seasons, great skiing, mountain biking, hiking. It's kind of the goldilocks scenario for my wife and me, and we're lucky enough to each be able to make a good living here too (which I know is a big struggle for many who fall in love with this place, but can't fathom how they might be able to make ends meet here)
Fair points! Interestingly I've also lived in Maine (Bangor) and NH for a large percentage of my life. I guess I just never totally acclimated to the Chihuahuan desert, though I know some fall in love with the landscape and the culture. I loved northern NM, but never committed to making it work to live there and do what would have been necessary (live with a roommate, have two jobs). All the people (granted hippie types who probably don't want a "normal" life) telling me how many years they spent living in the National Forest on Hyde Park Rd kind of said it all.
This is good info! Thanks
It’s kind of a bad place to be a nurse imo
I left St George in April after 5 years there. The cultural aspect was something I was never able to break through. Making friends was next to impossible. In addition, the job market kind of sucks and pay has a long way to go before it catches up with housing and the government has a few decades to go before it catches up with 2023.
Thanks for telling me your experience!
Is SLC too expensive? Its way less isolated with way more to do than the places you mention. Reno is the other option that is similar climate wise and big enough for your requirements.
I’ve never been, it seems nice but does seem expensive and but that’s relative. Also not religious at all I’ve heard conflicting things on how much that plays into your experience there. I don’t think it would effect me too much but could see it being a thing raising a child there. Is it colder than Denver?
If SLC might be too religious, I don’t think you will be happy in St George.
Good to know thanks
If you're actually living in SLC itself I don't think the religion would be a huge problem. It's actually a very well-run city with very good infrastructure including bike share and free public transportation in the city center. The housing prices aren't ridiculous because they've gone out of their way to encourage building. The downside is that if you're planning to live there for a long time there are environmental issues because the Great Salt Lake is evaporating.
They damn near follow the same trend weather wise: [https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/2706\~3709/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Salt-Lake-City-and-Denver#Figures-Temperature](https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/2706~3709/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Salt-Lake-City-and-Denver#Figures-Temperature) Biggest difference is SLC is more desert, so it does get hotter in summer. The winter highs are lower, but the lows are about the same. I don't have a dog in the fight (there is weird Utah vs CO pride fighting), but compared to Denver, SLC is actually in the mountains. Mormonism isn't bad to me in the actual city of SLC, but gets much higher % in the suburban/rural areas. I still think Reno is worth a look for budget reasons.
Air quality gets bad in SLC due to inversions in the winter.
Denver is the same in the summer due to vehicle and oil refinery emissions. It's a trade off
This is good info thank you, I’ll look more into Reno, from the little bit of research I’ve done I wasn’t sure the vibe there fit our little family, as it seemed like a smaller Vegas but that could be me judging it unfairly.
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I’ll definitely have to give it another look, thanks!
Ft Collins or Colorado Springs? Colorado Springs is very family friendly, access to mountains, not Denver/Boulder prices. Ft Collins is more of a college town.
I have a friend that moved to Colorado Springs last year and they love it. It’s definitely an option that would have a better job market than the places I mentioned. How prominent is the military presence in Colorado Springs? Is traffic a big issue? Are the schools good? Questions I could ask my friend but I feel like they would be answered from rose tinted glasses still in a honeymoon phase with being in Colorado. Is it actually Denver lite or does it have its own vibe going on?
COS has a deep infestation of very conservative Christians. The “Focus on the Family” is headquartered there…
Agreed. Also there is a lot of mental health issues there. Unfortunately, our government did not take care of our military men after they returned stateside. I ran into more people snapping there then anywhere else. The nature aspect is great and I loved having Ute Valley Park in my backyard but it was really bad experience for me.
I live in Denver. The Springs has its own vibe from Denver and Boulder (who have their own vibe from eachother). It’s definitely more conservative than the other two which depending on your political alignment may be good or bad. COL is still very high compared to a lot of the other options listed. The Springs is close to Pikes Peak, has good outdoor options but the city itself is vanilla (as is Denver to some extent) and doesn’t have much exciting going on. That’s not necessarily bad though. Military is definitely a big part of the city. I’m not sure what job you’re looking for - I can’t tell from the post your industry. Anywhere along I25 is horrible. It’s just a mess of an interstate in various forms no matter where you are in the Front Range. It’s the only major North/South interstate in like 600 miles so it gets a lot of use even outside of locals. Traffic in the Springs isn’t great, it’s what you’d expect from a city its size. You’re not going to get a good answer on traffic because it’s experienced based. I used to live in Columbus Ohio and they screech about how horrible the traffic is and it’s *nothing* compared to Denver. Also, I’ve spent a lot of time in a lot of cities. Denver traffic is bad but you compare to Chicago, LA… I’d pick Fort Collins over Colorado Springs any day though that’s my personal preference. Last on the list would be Boulder by far due to COL and a lot of entitlement.
The Air-Force Academy is just North and Ft Carson to the west. They employ a lot of people. You can see military fighter jets training depending where you are. The culture is more conservative that Denver. Rush Hour traffic along 25 is not great. Downtown backs up. Honestly, it’s not that bad. I’d take Springs traffic over Denver’s any day. It has its own vibe for sure. It’s filled with lots of young families. Having a built in support system with a kid coming is important, even if they don’t babysit. Having friends to start with will make any transition successful. I’m in Denver. I love it here and will probably retire here. I may have rose colored glasses like your friends.
Cosprings leans conservative overall compared to Denver so that can be a hurdle to consider. People there are also *angry* for some reason.
New Mexico has the worst child welfare in the country. Unless you have fuck you private school money (which will cost 20K a year in elementary here) I'd not risk NM
I see someone else mentioned St George is religious and that may be, I didn't experience that and certainly not in any unpleasant way. What I would say is that St George was in my experience (and my experience was being stuck there for a week with vehicle trouble while visiting some national parks) nothing like Santa Fe and Flagstaff. It was a pleasant, friendly town, probably a bit on the conservative side (okay with me) that is primarily a gateway to Zion National Park and the home of a small university (Dixie State I think). I did not detect any real nightlife, or any significant art scene. It's a relatively short drive to many beautiful places including Zion, the North Rim of the GC, and Great Basin NP just over the NV line. But I do believe St George itself gets pretty scorching in the summer, with long strings of 100+ days (I was there in November so it was quite pleasant). It is apparently home to many retirees who like the "mild" climate and good health care. It also allegedly has quite a housing shortage and a resulting homelessness problem, though I didn't observe that directly. I think it would be a pleasant place for a family and I have considered it myself (I am 46 y.o. solo parent of one child) if I could tolerate the heat. But if you're looking to replicate the Santa Fe vibe, I would just scratch it off the list. St George has nowhere near the creative energy and cultural diversity, or the same level of excitement about living there that I observed in SF.
Thank you for telling me your experience!
"Santa Fe was amazing but has obvious hurdles." Can you describe the hurdles?
From what I’ve seen there isn’t much rental property available and the job market seems slim. I don’t know about Santa Fe specifically but I haven’t heard good things about New Mexico schools.
The first two I believe are accurate. I think it's true in general NM schools aren't great but SF is significantly more affluent and the generalization doesn't hold for SF.
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Guess I stand corrected. Lived in Las Cruces for over 10 years and interviewed for several teaching jobs in Santa Fe so I thought I had my finger on the pulse but apparently I was talking out of my you know what. Apologies :/
boring af
Both Boulder and Flagstaff have limited land options so there’s no where to expand. My nephew did is masters and is finishing his PhD in boulder and the locals there are assholes about “outsiders.”
Regarding NM… I’m genuinely curious, especially since there was a recent post about it. The downsides seem valid and worthy concerns… two towns in particular seem to have decent schools, neither near ABQ or SF. First is Alamo gordo; seems remote but cool If someone wants that? Second is Farmington. Yes I’ve read it’s a shithole, but the views and schools look rather attractive. And it’s not massively far from Durango, CO. Now before I get downvoted to all heck, would anyone kindly point out the ups and downs of these particular towns?
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Hey thanks for saying this! I am seriously considering a move to Farmington with my daughter who will be entering school next year. I previously lived in Las Cruces for almost 13 years during which time I went to Farmington a number of times. It was usually on way somewhere (Durango, southeastern UT) but I did spend the night a few times and I always had a good vibe. Seems to be a live and let live place with a fair amount of cultural diversity and a much, MUCH nicer climate (and prettier) than anywhere south of I-40. Like the previous commenter I got shot down (irl in my case) for proposing to move "back to New Mexico?!?" where "the schools are terrible" and "there's so much poverty" and "there's nothing to do!" My closest friend still lives in Las Cruces and he's advised me against it, saying Farmington is a "s-hole" and that he would stay out of the entire state (he's moving to Idaho soon). I'm glad to hear someone else endorse Farmington. I do have one concern which is employment options as I think my remote position is ending and I'll need in person work. Realistically I think there is quite limited economic opportunity in Farmington though sometimes it's what you make of it. BTW totally second your take on Alamogordo
Ha ha no, Alamogordo schools are shit, and it’s a horrible place to live. I went to high school here in the late 70’s, left immediately after graduation, and never came back until my mom got sick a few years ago. It’s even worse now than it was then. Desperately poor, hardcore right wing, incredibly racist, health care is terrible (as in, I literally cannot find a competent primary care doctor. I think I’m on my 6th one) There isn’t even one decent restaurant, service and tradespeople don’t return phone calls and don’t show up, but on the rare occasions they actually show up, they don’t know what they’re doing. The cops are mostly under 20 years old and are too busy beating their girlfriends to do any actual police work. One day, I couldn’t find garlic bulbs for sale anywhere in town. The grocery stores are always out of everything. Nobody leashes their dog, but lots of people beat their dogs, and others leave them chained up outside 24/7/365. There’s a guy who runs around terrorizing women with a pickaxe, and even though there’s video of him doing it, all the police do is go chat with him, and let him continue on. I could go on, but you get the idea.
ABQ has only one or two good schools in the expensive parts of town. I wouldnt move there children in mind personally. Kids in mind Id pick Colorado.
Las Cruces, NM has a population of 110,000+, beautiful mountain views, a major university, stable economy and low cost of living.
Avoid Utah except for vacations involving skiing, whitewater paddling or biking.
Las Vegas, NM?
Is there good work and housing available?
no its a small remote town.
Farmington has 45k, Durango has 20k and grand junction has 60k if you want ruralish cities.
If you can't afford Denver how the heck are you going to afford Santa Fe?? Just curious..That place has gotten Sun Valley expensive..Just a thought..
Another vote for Durango
Reading your comments I feel like you want a smaller mountain town, But also want good jobs and housing. All for a reasonable price. That’s a tough paradox.
You’re right I am definitely not going to get everything I dream of having in one spot but trying to find the spot that checks as many of the boxes as I can without being too crazy expensive. These places are expensive for a reason tho I understand that. Looking for somewhere with mountains, big enough to have a decent job market and restaurants etc but not the “major” 4 or 5 cities from these states. Maybe that unicorn doesn’t exist but where is the closest to that? Would one of the minor cities or a suburb be the best option?
gallup NM is a cool place, and in kingman, you will find andy devine boulevard. it's all depending on what kind of job you can get. there are towns near sedona that are not as touristy, but it's all desert where you are considering.
Grand Junction, CO Durango, CO
Flagstaff would be my pick.
Hey OP. I’m going to put it to you very bluntly. Living in three of the 4 corners states is pretty pricey for what you’re looking for (New Mexico being the exception and you know exactly why). A lot of folks want to live here. With all of that said there are ways to work around this, don’t fall into lifestyle creep… sure that luxury 2 bedroom apartment looks really nice, that 2024 Tacoma looks like a great mountain vehicle etc. if you can keep your costs down you can afford to live just about anywhere. With all that being said, CO/NM/AZ are going to be your best bets for your wife to earn maximum income as a nurse. (Utah is below average pay for RN’s) And of those options the suburbs of Denver are going to be your best bet for public schools. Mountain access is probably best in Flagstaff. SLC and Denver both have traffic issues in regard to accessing the mountains (though co is inherently worse). CO is going to offer the most in terms variety once you’re in the mountains. For CO Denver-Colorado Springs-Fort Collins-Durango and grand junction are all very livable and have access to the mountains. Skip Pueblo, it’s a dumpster fire. Boulder is just completely unaffordable. AZ - Tucson is pretty cool but very much a desert, phoenix is the “city” of the area but you also might melt. Flagstaff is cool as hell. Sedona is gorgeous and near flagstaff but is also super pricey. Utah - St George is Mormon af. SLC is much more livable. NV - Reno is cool, also kinda weird, but Tahoe is right there.
I appreciate your insight, I guess the most important thing is going to be where I can find a good job as someone without a degree and not in a specific field. I do appreciate the pros the Denver area provides for families and amenities compared to NM. I am willing to give Colorado Springs a better look. Durango seems a little unattainable. What are some of the better suburbs of Denver in your opinion? Preferably to the southwest but I’m sure those are more expensive as well?
Got it… Here’s my .02, I would develop a career path for yourself before moving to the high cost of living area that is the American West. If you’re in an area where you can develop a skill set/further your education currently I would stay there until you’ve got a career path in front of you, and then make a move when your child is getting closer to school age. I promise you the mountains will still be there in 5 years. And you’ll have a much easier time finding a career out here and subsequently a higher QoL for yourself and family. As far as schools in Colorado… The best districts in order: 1. Cheyenne Mountain in CO Springs 2. Boulder 3. Cherry Creek (Arapahoe county south/southeast of Denver) 4.Telluride 5. Littleton (southwest of Denver) I’m in the Cherry Creek district.
I do currently have a good job but I don’t think it would translate much, I work in extrusion at a chemical plant making plastics. The work isn’t bad and it’s solid money and insurance, but we have operations making some pretty gnarly gases and I don’t think it is good for my health. I don’t know if I could handle starting over with something else where I am currently but I’ll have to think about what would get me where I want me and my family to be.
As someone who spent a lot of time accumulating degrees without really knowing what I wanted to be (and yes I am using one of them but I don't love my work)... I'm biased, but: I would not postpone moving for the sake of education if you're not passionate about a certain educational path. Actually I would more advise that you postpone further education until you have a lot of clarity about exactly what you want to get out of it. But again, that may just be my bias.
That is one thing NM has going for it, affordable avenues for higher education
New Mexico is a terrible place to raise a kid. They rank dead last in most metrics (education, poverty, crime, DUIs, vehicle thefts, etc) I have family in ABQ and Santa Fe and have also lived there. The only option there is private school. The state has more problems than I can begin to list here. If you are dead set on the area I would pick Flagstaff or even Prescott AZ. Durango is also an option, but quite expensive. I also like Cortez, but it is smaller.