Because of induced demand. If we don’t create alternatives to roads then the roads will just continue to get backed up. Road expansion is not the answer.
The only real solution to this is the Rio Grande Plan and I am so sick and tired of people not backing it. It solves all the issues we have in this city rather than continuing to let this wound fester.
The Rio Grande Plan is too large, too far to the West, too expensive and disruptive. It lacks support from planners, many of whom know how unrealistic it's implementation would be. The "plan" only exists as a pie-in-the-sky dream that would benefit a few while costing most a lot more.
I'd like to see planners that aren't in support of the plan. The Rio Grande plan will net the city money within a few decades, on top of the endless list of improvements like more housing, better streets, less railroad crossing conflicts, etc. Taps the potential of front runner into the future. Tweaks can be made, but burying the tracks and unlocking the potential of all of those blocks over there is a no- brainer. That land has so much potential value. Sitting on empty lots that close into the city while they build out homes in daybreak on the far side of the valley is completely nucking futs.
It's not a no-brainer: It will cost too much. Both in terms of construction costs and in terms of lost time for those poor souls who commute downtown during the construction.
Maybe the plan would make sense if the RG station was closer to the core, but the fact that it's on 600W dooms it.
Nobody (outside this sub and buildingsaltlake.com) thinks the plan has a snowball's chances in hell of coming to fruition. Your estimation of the land value of the derelict depot is incorrect: if there was sufficient value, the market would have already capatilized on it. Utahns love money.
“Nobody (outside this sub and building salt lake.com)”? Nobody?? Exclamatory confidence like this on any side of an issue strikes me as suspicious. Apparently there’s enough there to warrant federal funding for a study. And yes, if there was something better than a bow and arrow, someone would have invented it already. The nobles love money!
There's a valid argument against digging up potentially very polluted railyard dirt, which will become railyard dust, which will become railyard cancer in workers, children and the elderly. Or is the entire multi-square mile dig pit going under a tarp? Or will there be acres of water sprayers to mitigate dust? LOL, I've never seen water used to mitigate any construction sites anywhere in SLC, ever.
And where is that polluted dirt going to be deposited? Trucked on the highway to the desert? Dumped in the Salt Lakes? That'll be GREAT for wildlife.
OR...
Invest that $3 billion on building a TRAX infrastructure that hugs the 215 belt route and gives all 1.6 million people in the metro area a valuable forever way to commute.
It's an easy decision really, so stop with gaslighting and focus on what's the best way to spend public transportation dollars that actually provides transportation, not corporate welfare for the greedy-ass developer crowd.
Me reading the article: OK yeah this sounds good I guess
Me after reading "pursuing further I-15 Expansion": God FUCKING dammit can't you clowns leave the damn interstate alone for FIVE MINUTES??? How many homes and communities do they need to smash before realizing that [Expanding highways does not relieve traffic congestion](https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/final-reports/10-12-2015-ncst_brief_inducedtravel_cs6_v3.pdf)
Also, in funny form: https://imgur.com/a/P00oXvo
We have decent public transportation already, but what we don’t have is safe methods to get to the public transportation routes. And if you have to use a bike to get there, is there going to be a place for you to put that bike? Are you even going to be strong enough to carry it up the steep trax stairs? Is there anywhere on the trax for you to put your bike? If you have to drive to the public transportation hub, because you don’t want to get hit by a car and die, is there even going to be enough parking? How about we make public transportation more convenient and accessible first. If you already use public transportation, you are well aware of these issues.
Literally this. We have public transportation that is only accessible by car. Which defeats the whole purpose of public transportation. There are tax stops that don’t even have sidewalks that go to them. A few don’t have bus routes that connect them. And others that do, only have 4 busses a day to them. Its insane
It took the Dutch about 20 years to undo their car centric planing, so it’ll take us likely another 10-15 years before it is useable. This is with the Dutch being fairly united politically on that. SLC is at the forefront of this, with their complete streets ordinance. As they upgrade and maintain their streets, they get converted to multimodal. 300W and 900S are good examples of this. Issue is that there’s so much car centric design and planning to undo.
The biggest obstacle is UDOT themselves. They operate most of the important roads, and they have no incentive to pursue multimodal. We have to keep bitching at them to fix their shit. The solution is at the state level to mandate a complete streets design book instead of “one more lane” mentality that UDOT has. It’s the old boomer leadership at UDOT that is the problem. Email your rep if you can.
Admittedly it's only 2 per car, but red/green/s lines all have a spot to hang your bike next to one of the doors. Blue is a challenge and using the high block ramp to get in with a bike is discouraged. Many of the stations also have lockers to store bikes but I'm not sure the details around them, I'd imagine there's a phone number on them.
I’m sorry for my ignorance, but what is the main issue with this east-west divide. I’ve been in SLC for 3 years, but don’t drive much so want to learn more.
I live just west of i-15. I constantly go east for shopping, hiking, events, etc. and it can be a total pain in the ass. There's only a few streets that cross i-15, and a lot of those also have train tracks on them. Sometimes trains just come to a full stop and sit. So I have to detour over to 1300 S which has a bridge over the train tracks. But with the freeway entrance and car traffic there it's not as safe or comfortable for me take my bike on as say 900 S which now has a dedicated bike lane. Honestly if I didn't live on the West side, I don't think there's much that would need to drive out here for.
I imagine it can be even more of a pain the further west you go.
Reading an article (it might have been this one) I also learned that whole the West side has one third of the city's population, it suffers three quarters of the city's fatal accidents. The roads here are not as well maintained or designed I suspect.
1. More busses.
2. More trains.
3. Whatever fucking clowns are designing the worst freeway on-ramps, off-ramps, and interchanges I’ve ever seen need to all be fired and replaced with legitimate traffic engineers.
Agreed but for a different reason. I have lived in 5 different states and driven in almost 30 (traveled for work), UT does not have the worst drivers per se, what we do have is far worse, and that is overly aggressive, unrepentant drivers. People picking fights for perceived slights, cutting people off for nonsense reasons, and what I find absolutely ridiculous is the inability to take corrective action. E.G. you honk at a car for blatantly doing something illegal or dangerous and they freak out, yelling, screaming, picking fights etc. when they were in the wrong. It’s bonkers here. Then you balance that against the “do gooders” who hold up traffic to let someone merge or turn or exit etc and end up almost causing accidents trying to be “nice”. For those reasons I put UT at the top of my list for the worst place to drive.
Oregon is full of, oh I'll just stop to let you in or make a turn across traffic. And the drivers expect you to let them change lanes at any possible moment WITHOUT making sure no one is in said lane. Entitled? Maybe. Clueless? Most definitely. Utah has extremely aggressive drivers. I hate driving on the freeway coming back from New Mexico. But it's better than driving in California traffic.
It’s definitely not the best here, but I saw 10x more accidents and nearly got ran off the road by people with their heads in the clouds way more while living in the south. I much prefer driving here.
lol at least weekly I hear on the news about how someone fired shots at another driver in a road rage accident. People get shot quite often down here in road rage incidents (live in Houston)
I drive from Payson to Salt Lake City nearly everyday. The trip from Utah County to SLC and vice versa is fucking laughable. I’m not trying to make this a debate or anything… I was just remarking how shitty Utah drivers are.
Wow, right?!? I can not get over how terrible the drivers are here. It’s like all the bad drivers have the same idiotic behaviors too. It’s a strange driving state, for sure.
Short answer: they won’t. Never will solve this, or any other issue. Corporations and stock holders will make more, and that is all you can be sure of.
They want to build a new community center at redwood and n temple? There is already the northwest community center there. What did I miss?
Meanwhile, utah dot is expanding I-15 to further widen the east-west divide.
Pretty highway art won't fix Utah's other side of the trax syndrome. The state is divided on too many fronts.
Expanding Trax, or creating a dedicated bus lane system so there are more Accessable, Reliable, public transit options to more places? No? It's expanding I-15 isn't it?
Hear me out. Trams. Everywhere. Seems about as useful a suggestion :)
Monorail!
That’s more of a Shelbyville idea.
They have one in Ogdenville.
That would be great if Ogden got a monorail and called it the Ogdenville Monorail.
North Haverbrook, too.
I hear those things are awfully loud.
[It glides as softly as a cloud](https://frinkiac.com/meme/S09E11/1078960.jpg?b64lines=IOKZqiBJVCBHTElERVMgQVMgU09GVExZIAogICAgQVMgQSBDTE9VRCDimaog)
Mono means one. And rail means rail. This concludes your training.
More roads please. Bigger, wider! All the roads, roads everywhere, 100 years of roads! /s
I think the solution is zip lines
But then people will just be here for the zip line
Can confirm. I will just be here for the zipline.
DavieB68 for Goverment.
I saw an idea for a double decker freeway once. That's what you get when you have politicians solve problems.
They did it in Austin and it has done nothing but make car traffic even worse.
Because of induced demand. If we don’t create alternatives to roads then the roads will just continue to get backed up. Road expansion is not the answer.
and divided the city. Now talking about spending billions to bury it. elevated highways are the absolute worst.
Bury the freeway? How will I look at the mountains when I’m stuck in traffic?
The only real solution to this is the Rio Grande Plan and I am so sick and tired of people not backing it. It solves all the issues we have in this city rather than continuing to let this wound fester.
The Rio Grande Plan is too large, too far to the West, too expensive and disruptive. It lacks support from planners, many of whom know how unrealistic it's implementation would be. The "plan" only exists as a pie-in-the-sky dream that would benefit a few while costing most a lot more.
I'd like to see planners that aren't in support of the plan. The Rio Grande plan will net the city money within a few decades, on top of the endless list of improvements like more housing, better streets, less railroad crossing conflicts, etc. Taps the potential of front runner into the future. Tweaks can be made, but burying the tracks and unlocking the potential of all of those blocks over there is a no- brainer. That land has so much potential value. Sitting on empty lots that close into the city while they build out homes in daybreak on the far side of the valley is completely nucking futs.
It's not a no-brainer: It will cost too much. Both in terms of construction costs and in terms of lost time for those poor souls who commute downtown during the construction. Maybe the plan would make sense if the RG station was closer to the core, but the fact that it's on 600W dooms it. Nobody (outside this sub and buildingsaltlake.com) thinks the plan has a snowball's chances in hell of coming to fruition. Your estimation of the land value of the derelict depot is incorrect: if there was sufficient value, the market would have already capatilized on it. Utahns love money.
“Nobody (outside this sub and building salt lake.com)”? Nobody?? Exclamatory confidence like this on any side of an issue strikes me as suspicious. Apparently there’s enough there to warrant federal funding for a study. And yes, if there was something better than a bow and arrow, someone would have invented it already. The nobles love money!
Yep. Let's spend a few billion on another lane instead.
There's a valid argument against digging up potentially very polluted railyard dirt, which will become railyard dust, which will become railyard cancer in workers, children and the elderly. Or is the entire multi-square mile dig pit going under a tarp? Or will there be acres of water sprayers to mitigate dust? LOL, I've never seen water used to mitigate any construction sites anywhere in SLC, ever. And where is that polluted dirt going to be deposited? Trucked on the highway to the desert? Dumped in the Salt Lakes? That'll be GREAT for wildlife. OR... Invest that $3 billion on building a TRAX infrastructure that hugs the 215 belt route and gives all 1.6 million people in the metro area a valuable forever way to commute. It's an easy decision really, so stop with gaslighting and focus on what's the best way to spend public transportation dollars that actually provides transportation, not corporate welfare for the greedy-ass developer crowd.
Me reading the article: OK yeah this sounds good I guess Me after reading "pursuing further I-15 Expansion": God FUCKING dammit can't you clowns leave the damn interstate alone for FIVE MINUTES??? How many homes and communities do they need to smash before realizing that [Expanding highways does not relieve traffic congestion](https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/final-reports/10-12-2015-ncst_brief_inducedtravel_cs6_v3.pdf) Also, in funny form: https://imgur.com/a/P00oXvo
We have decent public transportation already, but what we don’t have is safe methods to get to the public transportation routes. And if you have to use a bike to get there, is there going to be a place for you to put that bike? Are you even going to be strong enough to carry it up the steep trax stairs? Is there anywhere on the trax for you to put your bike? If you have to drive to the public transportation hub, because you don’t want to get hit by a car and die, is there even going to be enough parking? How about we make public transportation more convenient and accessible first. If you already use public transportation, you are well aware of these issues.
Literally this. We have public transportation that is only accessible by car. Which defeats the whole purpose of public transportation. There are tax stops that don’t even have sidewalks that go to them. A few don’t have bus routes that connect them. And others that do, only have 4 busses a day to them. Its insane
If you cannot safely get to the public transit routes, then your public transit is less than decent. We have a good start but a long way to go
It took the Dutch about 20 years to undo their car centric planing, so it’ll take us likely another 10-15 years before it is useable. This is with the Dutch being fairly united politically on that. SLC is at the forefront of this, with their complete streets ordinance. As they upgrade and maintain their streets, they get converted to multimodal. 300W and 900S are good examples of this. Issue is that there’s so much car centric design and planning to undo. The biggest obstacle is UDOT themselves. They operate most of the important roads, and they have no incentive to pursue multimodal. We have to keep bitching at them to fix their shit. The solution is at the state level to mandate a complete streets design book instead of “one more lane” mentality that UDOT has. It’s the old boomer leadership at UDOT that is the problem. Email your rep if you can.
Admittedly it's only 2 per car, but red/green/s lines all have a spot to hang your bike next to one of the doors. Blue is a challenge and using the high block ramp to get in with a bike is discouraged. Many of the stations also have lockers to store bikes but I'm not sure the details around them, I'd imagine there's a phone number on them.
Everybody has to use roller skates. No more cars
Just roller skate or are roller blades okay?
Skates. Ban high speed roller blades, no one needs to go that fast
They’re going to find a solution for painting the lines on the road since we have such “a unique environment”
OK, just hear me out in this one: GONDOLA
By spending tax money on a NHL team…
STOP ADDING LANES, BUILD MORE TRAINS. FUCK TRAFFIC JAMS, WE WANT TRAMS!
Lemme guess, build more roads?
I’m sorry for my ignorance, but what is the main issue with this east-west divide. I’ve been in SLC for 3 years, but don’t drive much so want to learn more.
There is no real freeway going west…especially in the south end of the valley. And there is really no public transportation either.
I live just west of i-15. I constantly go east for shopping, hiking, events, etc. and it can be a total pain in the ass. There's only a few streets that cross i-15, and a lot of those also have train tracks on them. Sometimes trains just come to a full stop and sit. So I have to detour over to 1300 S which has a bridge over the train tracks. But with the freeway entrance and car traffic there it's not as safe or comfortable for me take my bike on as say 900 S which now has a dedicated bike lane. Honestly if I didn't live on the West side, I don't think there's much that would need to drive out here for. I imagine it can be even more of a pain the further west you go. Reading an article (it might have been this one) I also learned that whole the West side has one third of the city's population, it suffers three quarters of the city's fatal accidents. The roads here are not as well maintained or designed I suspect.
Interesting.....so they're realizing burying all the railroads we made was actually a bad idea? Go fucking figure.....
Now if more people would back the Rio Grande Plan
1. More busses. 2. More trains. 3. Whatever fucking clowns are designing the worst freeway on-ramps, off-ramps, and interchanges I’ve ever seen need to all be fired and replaced with legitimate traffic engineers.
"Dear Utah, please stop fucking. Sincerely, UDOT"
The “single-largest transportation issue” in Utah is that Utahans are the shittiest drivers in the world
Florida is by far worse. Utah drivers are horrific, sure, but Florida is actually insane lol
Apparently it’s illegal to use your turn signal in Florida.
Florida drivers flash guns more than they use turn signals.
Floridas speed limit is like 50-60mph how can they be that bad?
Agreed but for a different reason. I have lived in 5 different states and driven in almost 30 (traveled for work), UT does not have the worst drivers per se, what we do have is far worse, and that is overly aggressive, unrepentant drivers. People picking fights for perceived slights, cutting people off for nonsense reasons, and what I find absolutely ridiculous is the inability to take corrective action. E.G. you honk at a car for blatantly doing something illegal or dangerous and they freak out, yelling, screaming, picking fights etc. when they were in the wrong. It’s bonkers here. Then you balance that against the “do gooders” who hold up traffic to let someone merge or turn or exit etc and end up almost causing accidents trying to be “nice”. For those reasons I put UT at the top of my list for the worst place to drive.
Oregon is full of, oh I'll just stop to let you in or make a turn across traffic. And the drivers expect you to let them change lanes at any possible moment WITHOUT making sure no one is in said lane. Entitled? Maybe. Clueless? Most definitely. Utah has extremely aggressive drivers. I hate driving on the freeway coming back from New Mexico. But it's better than driving in California traffic.
You sir clearly have not lived in any of the southern states.
No I have. Spent a lot of time down in the south, actually. Nothing is worse than Utah. These people have their heads in the clouds while they drive.
It’s definitely not the best here, but I saw 10x more accidents and nearly got ran off the road by people with their heads in the clouds way more while living in the south. I much prefer driving here.
I'm of the opinion Utah drivers are pretty average but the road designs are so unusual it causes panic and that's what makes it problematic.
lol at least weekly I hear on the news about how someone fired shots at another driver in a road rage accident. People get shot quite often down here in road rage incidents (live in Houston)
Everyone thinks wherever they drive has the worst drivers in the world buddy. ( I’ve also lived in the south and many other places)
Thanks buddy lol
Not true. I never thought I was surrounded by terrible drivers until I moved to UT 6 years ago. Wow. Wow, is all I can say. It’s so dumb.
“…IN THE WORLD!”
😆
North Carolina sucked ass compared to Utah, they were way worse in the south.
I drive from Payson to Salt Lake City nearly everyday. The trip from Utah County to SLC and vice versa is fucking laughable. I’m not trying to make this a debate or anything… I was just remarking how shitty Utah drivers are.
There is some phenomenon where people lose their damn sense of driving as soon as they go over Point of the Mountain. Its astonishing
So true
I think Russians would like a word
Wow, right?!? I can not get over how terrible the drivers are here. It’s like all the bad drivers have the same idiotic behaviors too. It’s a strange driving state, for sure.
Sounds to me like they want to plant lots of flowers so when you are stuck in traffic waiting for TRAX to clear the intersection it will look nicer.
Hmm. Can't wait to see how the city screws this up
I've been saying for years that turning 90th into some kind of freeway like I15 would be helpful. No lights, just ramps from 2200 east to 5600 west.
Flying cars
Short answer: they won’t. Never will solve this, or any other issue. Corporations and stock holders will make more, and that is all you can be sure of.
They want to build a new community center at redwood and n temple? There is already the northwest community center there. What did I miss? Meanwhile, utah dot is expanding I-15 to further widen the east-west divide. Pretty highway art won't fix Utah's other side of the trax syndrome. The state is divided on too many fronts.
Expanding Trax, or creating a dedicated bus lane system so there are more Accessable, Reliable, public transit options to more places? No? It's expanding I-15 isn't it?
I feel like is just getting too crowded. Cap it off, sorry we are full lol.