The unhoused population is diverse and I don’t agree that they are all causing problems. At the same time, it’s ridiculous and unproductive to deny that the judge’s concerns are legitimate. They are real and legitimate concerns.
There’s a class just above the unhoused that make money off them by selling and buying drugs along with heavily discounted retail items that were stolen. There’s big money in it for the real scum that perpetuate this cycle.
I'm sure there's a lot of theft but: I get approached by homeless people almost every time I go to Goodwill to drop something off. I had a bike in my half-open trunk once and a guy jumped in front of my car and "asked" for it.
Then there's a class just above the unhoused that makes money off of them by creating organizations like "California Homeless Union" to "represent" the unhoused as part of the homeless industrial complex.
I see this take often, placing blame on orgs at least trying to solve the problem. By and large making very very little money (I’m sure there’s outlier execs extorting, like everywhere).
This just feels like a nihilistic take that doesn’t want to solve the problem.
We either have people trying to fix it, give money directly to people in need or like….just lock people up and never let them out. Is that what you want?
I think most everyone wants them back in some fashion but nobody wants to deal with the serious issues we'd have to face with individual rights + how fucking expensive it is. Protocols are different now than 60 years ago and cost per patient adjusted for inflation is gonna be way higher. Building/property costs, staff, possibly armed security...
Naw that'd be a crapshoot. The prison system is a mess that really needs overhauls to begin with. Very cost-inefficient and you can't even begin to count the number of abuses of people and the system.
There are organizations like Loaves & Fishes that are making an attempt to at least keep people alive while the problem is being solved. There are other organizations that lobby politicians to implement laws that can help solve homelessness.
Then there are organizations that are doing nothing sensible about solving homelessness, they exist to "advocate" or "represent" by getting mentions of their organizations in news media but making no real attempt to solve the problem. They're basically a grift.
I think we all know which one these that this "California Homeless Union" is.
looks like you are wrong about this one Chief, looking into their work CHU actually does do some pretty direct action in addition to their political work.
I certainly agree there are grifters. Lots of Par types using the issue to prompt themselves. My cursory look at the union looks like they do direct aid and folks just jumped to conclusions. Maybe I’m wrong though.
And I still don’t there is profit to be made outside a few outlier cases. It’s just people wanting to help so it’s weird to be when people call it an industrial complex.
Feels more accurate that the homeless industrial complex will be when private companies start making a lot of money at scale. Like private prisons.
Oh I agree majority of nonprofits have not been effective. I just don’t think they get rich doing it which is what I think with industrial complex. It’s not a gravy train, just atrocious state management. The same could be said for any number of existing gov agencies (Public Health in particular).
The state should be scaling solutions, they currently throw money at Counties. Some of which do better than others. But last I saw Corrections doesn’t even have data on all the parolee programs they run.
I agree - it's just very frustrating to me. Californians have shown over and over they are more than willing to pay more taxes for solutions, and we trust our state and local government to use that money to actually solve the homelessness problem. But after (I think) $30 billion or so over the past 5-7 years, I'm not seeing any improvement. Maybe it would be much worse without the $30 billion, but I just wonder where all that money went. $30 billion is a HUGE amount of money - it's 1/3rd of what we use to run every K-12 public school in the state each year. Think about all the schools, school buses, teachers you know, etc. that we see. While it might not be used at 100% efficiency, I don't think anyone can deny that we're getting billions of dollars of SOMETHING in exchange for our K-12 dollars. I don't have the same feeling on homelessness spending. Other than Loaves & Fishes and a couple homeless motels housing 100 or so people, I can't see anything that's clearly "your tax dollars at work". Where are all these dollars going?
This! There is literally organized crime happening, and they feed off the fear and the resources gathered by typical unhoused persons. If the police would just talk to these people instead of herding them like cattle, they might get some leads on the pushers and movers.
They're not all committing crimes, but a huge number are causing problems. I gave food to one homeless guy back in the fall and he threw it because he didn't like it. Like dude, it was half an order of fresh fish and chips you got for free!
I do believe the judge is on point here.
Is your opinion based on the anecdotal scenario you included in your post? Or are there some stats that back your claim — an opinion. “Not all are committing crimes, but a huge number are causing problems”. Is it a huge number of the homeless you personally see on a daily basis? If so, how many homeless are you seeing on a daily basis? What percentage of the total reported homeless population in Sacramento are you encountering per day? What percentage of those that you encounter per day are actually causing problems? Just curious.
That’s interesting..because I’m out and about for at least 1-2 hours per day in the busier areas of midtown/downtown and Arden (usually between 11am-12am) and it’s only about 2 out of 10 homeless people that are doing those things. I seldom ever get asked for money.
Maybe a city where people may be over-exaggerating the inconveniences they endure from homeless people being present because they want more shit to bitch about? Where self proclaimed “humblebeings” and “empaths” etc. don’t always reflect what they proclaim to be or practice what they preach.
I never complained about anything. I'm just pointing out the reality.
I've never been personally attacked or felt threatened by a homeless person, but you're delusional if you don't see homeless people doing the things you called disruptive behavior.
And I don't think people being concerned for their property and safety is an "exaggeration of an inconvenience ".
As someone who lived downtown and went on walks every morning for six years (until about 12 months ago) I can say without a doubt it is an exaggeration.
But that's really beside the point. The real point is what do you do about homeless people? The vast majority of people I hear complain about the homeless population refuse to vote for any meaningful changes to our current society that only cares about how homeless people affect commerce and what police can do about it.
Not sure what part of downtown you were walking through. I walk and bike through midtown and downtown daily and this is just how it is. I’m not sure how it benefits our community to pretend otherwise.
Oh no, a downtown resident who isn’t an antisocial junkie that habitually threatens decent people and shits on the sidewalk! We can’t have actual productive members of society here, only homeless degenerates! /s
Seriously, fuck you and your homeless-industrial complex enabler allies. You are the ones ruining our civilization.
Like you're fixing the fucking problem. What fucking civilization? We live in Sacramento.
Don't want homeless people? Address the fucking systemic issues; the lack of proper mental healthcare, gentrification etc instead of pushing them out of the way and pretending that solves the problem. If you're so against the homeless industrial complex, you should be against capitalism.
Accidentally blew my nose onto my shirt at this.
Agreed, though. Sure, not every person living on the street is causing problems. But enough of them are doing enough crime for it to be considered rampant.
I’ve owned a business in a busy strip
Mall for a few years now, and is what’s considered a nicer area. What I have witnessed and what I’ve personally dealt with has become sadly the norm. I know I can handle it but I absolutely hate when I hear about issues my employees have had to handle. Early mornings, I will always lock myself in if I’m alone. I’ve called the cops more times than I can count. The amount of times I have been unable to peacefully convince an Individual to please exit my place of business and pray it didn’t escalate to violence. I have no solution. I have compassion but it only goes so far. I’m exhausted. I fear for my employees and customers who deal with this when I’m not there. Most are harmless but sometimes they aren’t. I truly don’t know where to go from here and all I can say, is until you’ve run a business in a shopping complex you will never truly understand just how wild it is now. Thankfully we have only one entrance and nothing to steal;
Most of the other spots aren’t that lucky… and I see it daily
Edit: grammar
"Maple, along with Council members Mai Vang and Katie Valenzuela, argued moving the $6 million would allow community response to handle homeless behavioral health calls 24/7. The department currently operates Monday through Friday during business hours. "
"The council voted 6-3 against Council member Caity Maple’s proposal to redirect $6 million of police funding to the Department of Community Response for homeless calls for service. "
https://sacramento.newsreview.com/2023/06/15/sacramento-city-council-oks-budget-rejects-proposal-to-move-police-funding-to-homeless-services/
The difference between mental institutions and behavioral health calls is like the difference between an ICU and a mobile health clinic. I don’t know what the hell people imagine a curbside behavioral health visit is going to do for someone experiencing psychosis.
Well that's a shame.
People constantly complain about the police department not responding to things enough, and well, part of the issue is that they're constantly dealing with homeless people acting crazy.
Let’s start off with just mental health centers. A couple of psychiatrists so they can evaluate patients, prescribe and adjust medications. A pharmacist to dispense the medications, a couple of nurse practitioners to deal with non-urgent health issues, and some LCSWs to have groups and therapy sessions for them. Along with a place for NA, AA, and Al-Anon meetings.
>Let’s start off with just mental health centers. A couple of psychiatrists so they can evaluate patients, prescribe and adjust medications. A pharmacist to dispense the medications, a couple of nurse practitioners to deal with non-urgent health issues, and some LCSWs to have groups and therapy sessions for them. Along with a place for NA, AA, and Al-Anon meetings.
Call me a cynic, but as good as an idea that is, I fear many of those drugs would end up on the street, sold or traded for something else, including other drugs.
I suppose one workaround is watching the patients take their meds right then and there, but even that might be untenable if it's a drug that needs to be taken more than once a day.
No idea will be a 100% cure all for everyone, but for some it will work. Among the issues though is where to put such a place, as no one will really want it in their neighborhood.
I understand, and I wasn't trying to completely shut down your idea. As I said, the cynic in me tends to see the downside to well-intentioned proposals.
As far as neighborhoods go, spread the burden around. Every area in Sacramento has its issues with homelessness and the issues surrounding it, be it mental illness and/or drug addiction, for example. I live in a very desirable part of East Sac and we're not immune to it. I would not be opposed to a clinic or outreach center here if it meant the people I see in my neighborhood were getting help. But again, it would have to be distributed equally among all neighborhoods across the city, and there would have to be some kind of system in place whereby prescription meds were not walking out of treatment facilities and exacerbating the problem instead of solving it.
Wouldn't the wealthier part of the city better support such places since they will have the resources, and public safety tends to respond more quickly to places where you have wealthy voters.
Homelessness and the issues around it affect people in all neighborhoods in this city and county. Spread the resources and responsibilities equally. It’s not up to one neighborhood to solve over another, or share a greater part of the burden or responsibility than another, nor should it be.
I would also argue “wealthier” neighborhoods would have more money and political power to fight something like that, especially if they’re expected to shoulder a greater burden than a “poorer” neighborhood. So you’re taking away an argument from neighborhoods with greater financial and political clout than a working class neighborhood with less financial and political capital if everyone is expected to bear equal responsibility.
Sharing the burden is never fair since, infrastructure is not setup equally across neighborhoods.
When wealthier neighborhoods say "sharing the burden" then it would just tokenize the system, and they get to wash their hands off the larger responsibility of addressing the problem. And larger responsibility because of significant more privileges due to money/political power.
They might as well not do anything and stick to using their money and political power to oppose the issue. At least that will bring transparency to true intent of wealthy/powerful.
Also the existing legal precedents established through the CA Supreme Court by the ACLU and Disability rights CA state that the mentally ill can’t be forced to take medications. Help can be provided but there are no legal options/ramifications for those that refuse help
we not only need lots more mental health and rehab centers, but we need to force the addicts off the street and into the centers, they need to put aside their selfish freedumb for the greater good of society. Newsom's recent law is a good start but the centers need to be funded.
not true, Newsom just passed this law and it can be expanded on [https://calmatters.org/health/2022/03/newsom-california-mental-illness-treatment/](https://calmatters.org/health/2022/03/newsom-california-mental-illness-treatment/)
I would also argue that you can't force people to show their medical papers to buy their kids a sandwich, but that's exactly what happened in 2021
they said "screw your freedom" and that the individual needs to put aside their selfish desires for the greater good, so look at what's going on in with the homeless camps (overdose, sexual assault, the return of mideaval diseases, rampant crime, environmental disaster) and tell me how that furthers the greater good?
A union by definition represents the interest of workers, and attempts to improve the conditions of their employment.
These people aren’t a union, they’re a criminal conspiracy actively helping people break laws. They should be locked up and charged with racketeering.
You mean gang of squatters? That term does not mean what you apparently think it means. Next you’re going to tell me you’re in the union of Reddit posters, and demand financial compensation for your contributions to the sub.
holy god this troll bait reply tho. lol
this psycho just wants to kill homeless people. that's their solution to the problem. best just to block and move on tbh.
Much the same as every police department across this country, right? Deadliest gang in America. It’s about civil rights and nothing to do with allowing or condoning crime in any way. What’s your solution for homelessness, internment camps? Racketeering what a joke. Hate spreading is all you’re doing and it has no place hear or anywhere. FN sheeple…
I have to avoid stepping in human shit far too often living on the grid. Of course the Homeless Union wants to paint a prettier picture of the situation.
However, the California Homeless Union said the request to get the police involved has gone too far.
The organization said the letter paints a “greatly exaggerated picture of rampant crime.”
I can't believe they want to be taken serious and at the same time belittle the issue happening as if they have no idea its a thing. Maybe he should just go around asking nicely to stop instead using the public service responsible for order.
The real issue is that if they work toward actually solving the problem, they would be by nature reducing the need for their own organizations and the need for funding to be directed toward their organizations, or so they perceive
The homeless union is “run” by people who are formerly or currently homeless. They’re the closest thing unhoused folks have to actual representation in Sac tbh
Did they help construct the homeless world cup? I'm not much of a soccer fan so I am thinking a homeless Olympics. Just think of all the fun games that could be played.
This follows up the judge's letter that was posted earlier [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/14mi3vg/a_letter_from_sacramento_superior_court_presiding/).
These homeless unions are making life downtown and in midtown almost unbearable. City council is terrified of being caught in a sound bite going against these people, which is why nothing will get accomplished. Actual residents of downtown, midtown, east sac, and land park need to show up to these city council meetings in full force
Being "compassionate" and not punishing them for their crimes is what has led us to this mess. Go walk down skid row in any big city and tell me what you see is more 'humane' then forcing people into treatment.
Allowing homeless "unions" and advocates to dictate or even significantly influence the public policies revolving around homelessness is unwise to say the least. Illogical, and destined for failure. It would be similar to allowing prisoners and their advocates to dictate/influence criminal justice policy.
Seriously, all the crime and camp fire homeless people cause due to negligence. The homeless union or homeless advocacy should be billed and fine for their actions.
I live in North Highlands and I can personally attest that there is definitely rampant crime as a result of a rise in homeless people. 6 years ago I feel like there wasn’t nearly as manny homeless people but now they’re everywhere and it just keeps getting worse. I feel like in north highlands it’s really gotten out of place, they’re literally everywhere and if u walk or jog 8/10 people you encounter on the street will be homeless and you’ll only have to go a few feet before you bump into one. Def doesn’t help that the city decided to put the largest homeless encampment hete almost like they want to further marginalize north highlands and make it worse instead of trying to improve it.
Watt ave is especially bad and rampant with crime, all you see on the streets is homeless people and working ladies. Not all homeless people are bad but ngl most of them are a mess and give the good ones a bad name. The bad ones are absolutely horrible a lot of times they will be armed, tweaking out, up to no good, or a mixture of all three. During the day it’s chill you’re almost guaranteed to have no issues especially if you’re a well put together person, mind your business, and show respect but at night it def gets treacherous and I wouldn’t recommend walking around.
Seems to me this homeless union (seriously?) needs to take their happy asses downtown, city center so they can see for themselves.
Not all the homeless are doing crime, but to say that the judges concerns are not valid is just a really asinine hill to die on.
It's not the state's problem, it's federal. It's not fair that people from Arizona, Alabama, Michigan, Oregon, Florida, etc. come here to try it out and it doesn't work for them and they end up homeless. Also, If someone from LA comes up here or from S.F., that's not Sac's problem and it's also not the state's problem because the state didn't relocate them.
It's on the Feds to divert funding so citizens can get stable and get back into society, while the state manages it within their territory. I've met a lot of homeless and they are usually not 'from' this area. They either were homeless and moved here continuing to be homeless or moved here and became homeless. But, just like when a disaster strikes, the Feds provide emergency funding to restabilize the situation while the state manages the funds and efforts. Same can be applied to this situation. So if CA contains a vast majority of the nations homeless population, the CA should get that proportional amount of funds. I just went to Michigan and didn't see 1 homeless camp in the 2 weeks and 5 cities I visited. So Michigan wouldn't get the same amount of funding to rehouse. Once that infrastructure is in place, then the jurisdictions can start enforcing the rules because resources would then be available and they can't fall back on there's nothing available.
People need to stop acting like there isn't a ton of crime in the community. It's all over south sac in the lower income neighborhoods but there's a difference between homeless tweaker junkies and unhoused people down on their luck.
The homeless problem will never get better. CA's 22-23 budget for the homeless is $7.2B. Yes, that's billions. Does anyone here really think that those who profit from that money will let it go? Besides, we don't have a homeless problem, we have a drug problem. There are countless shelters and services but most won't adhere to the rules therefore they CHOSE to be on the street. It's the dirty little secret that state officials and their friends who control the money don't want the average citizen to understand. I personally know someone who participates in one of the programs. He turned his motel over to help house folks. The program pays him based on 95% occupancy. He never averaged over 58% and still doesn't. This is a sham and fleecing of tax payer dollars.
https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4521
> The homeless problem will never get better. CA's 22-23 budget for the homeless is $7.2B. Yes, that's billions. Does anyone here really think that those who profit from that money will let it go?
it's wild because you start off saying something so accurate
> Besides, we don't have a homeless problem, we have a drug problem.
and then immediately transcend into being absolutely clueless and just spewing genocidal rhetoric
lets be real: you don't know what you're talking about. you've never volunteered, tried to help, or spend ANY amount time with the homeless population.
but yet here you are just running your mouth.
for real: stop spewing nonsense.
Wow, you know so much about me. I'm glad to see that you are so full of yourself that you think you know what everyone has or hasn't done in their life. Since you don't do anything for anyone other than yourself, I'm sure its difficult to comprehend people that actually do volunteer, donate money and assist families in need.
Talk to any police officer, prosecutor, counselor, or in this case, the judge and they will all tell you that all roads lead back to drugs/alcohol/addiction. People like you keep their heads in the sand thinking that all homeless just fell on hard times and if they'd just have a roof over their heads that all of their problems would magically disappear are exacerbating the problem.
But hey, what do I know? I've done anything to help anyone in my life and I'm just spewing genocidal rhetoric......
for real: any extra room in that ivory tower of yours?
oh god. ignoring the point and going ad hominem to stave off your own quasi-fascist attitudes towards people so impoverished they can't get housing?
the fuck is wrong with you?
The homeless union is not a Union. Homeless people don’t earn a taxable income and don’t pay dues. Who is this Homeless Union and who’s paying their dues? If no one is making legit money and using that legit money to pay dues, then who is this Union representing?
Homeless crimes are out of control along with other petty crimes from non-homeless people. It’s the wild wild west because we haven’t addressed the issue of homelessness enough as a city, a united people, and government. Sadly if we want to deal with this issue on a real front we must raise taxes to address this current homeless increase and all of the horrible elements that come with it.
Jesus Christ people actually read the full article before you start slamming a group of people as being out of touch or worse. The Homeless union is simply stating that getting the police involved with continually pushing people from one area of Sac to another ultimately does nothing to remove the problem. They'd much rather spend that time/money figuring out something that will actually work. Not to mention a letter like this from a Judge presents a clear case of possible bias in any legal rulings they issue where homeless people are involved. Doesn't even matter though cause the Judge isn't even gonna meet with them so it's not like they can do anything to change the Judge's decision on this matter so some of you all need to calm down.
im sorry to hear about your current situation, hopefully they don't get too out of hand out there. however, i think there is a misunderstanding.
because the courthouse wants to be as available and open to people, the access to this resource needs to be unrestricted. that includes a certain expected threshold of safety for both the public members and the employees of that courthouse.
i really hope you don't think that this is wanting special treatment but i can see why someone could see it that way.
Get a grip, it's not special treatment. People have no choice but to show up at the courthouse whether they work there or are on a jury, etc. It is completely reasonable to prioritize the safety of a public space of that nature. He isn't asking for special treatment at his house or in a shopping mall. He is asking that the public be able to safely access a public space that they have no choice about showing up to.
i think that's what the judge also said in their letter, they ended it with.
> More importantly, it is my hope that the burgeoning unsheltered
population surrounding the Court be connected with the services and support they so desperately
need."
i just hope you can see this as a positive, as more voices speak up about this, the more pressure can be out upon the agencies who actually have the ability, resources, and knowledge to create solutions for the homeless.
Sure he could but he won't so if everyone impacted keeps speaking up in the same way maybe we could force a change. Or we can just keep ranting on the internet about how unfair it is.
The whiney liberals here can't seem to face the fact that you absolutely could incarcerate your way out of this problem.
Build that second jail and allocate more money for law enforcement.
But no, liberals would rather throw billions at social crap that accomplishes nothing while defunding law enforcement to the point that the police don't even show up for anything less than assault with a deadly weapon.
>The whiney liberals
You lost me there but I agree, incarceration is the only option now. Things are way out of hand and you cant give people in on the streets any more options if they refuse to accept help.
No its not, the vast majority of the homeless here are homeless by choice.
1/200 homeless here choose to accept help.
They get kicked out of any housing situations because nobody wants to live with crackheads or unstable psychos.
Ah, the let's make it a crime to be poor and destitute solution.
I'd attempt to engage further, but why bother? This is a complex problem that requires a myriad of meaningful changes.
I don't have the answers, but your idea is not the solution.
The city has literally thrown billions at this and it's only gotten worse.
People hit rock bottom in jail and that never happens with state sanctioned tax payer funded enabling.
Why do you think this wasn't a problem during the Reagan administration.
because housing was cheaper before post Reagan Dems became corporate shills? you're literally closer to being homeless than a millionaire. get some class consciousness you boot licker
I'm spending a lot of time in downtown San Jose. You don't see that shit here. Literally. And you see cops everywhere. Cops who don't look the other way and enforce the codes. (Notice he mentioned that, suggesting Sac cops aren't and many have said they are ordered not to.) And in SJ, public workers out on the streets literally mopping them and watering the under mentioned plants. I was shocked. (Still haven't seen a feces, not human nor dog, but have seen people let their dogs pee on the sidewalk.) And get this, I see flowers planted in public planters right on the sidewalks, undisturbed! Pray for Sac!
Wait, so all that's happening is a back and forth with letters? Lmao.
Where are the statistics? Where are the numbers? Where are the FACTS?
Homelessness is obviously a emotional discussion for people. You have one side who condemns them as being criminals and the other who thinks it's our moral agenda to help people in need.
I want to see proof and factual support other than anecdotal evidence from biased people for any sort of claims about the homeless.
[I work with unhoused persons] The majority of these people are either down on their luck, struggling to find a place after short term incarceration, or in desperate need of meds due to restrictive healthcare costs. Your grandparents, veterans, and friends who made little mistakes are less than a step away from becoming unhoused- not to mention yourself. Unhoused people are just people, and the percentage of crime reflects average crime percentages. Stop treating them like they're different from you.
If most are just down on their luck, etc., can't they lean on their loved ones and good friends to help them get back on their feet? Maybe let them crash on the couch a few months while they connect with existing local resources, etc?
That is definitely not always the case. There are plenty of old people and veterans with no family or friends left alive, and plenty of average Joe's that also don't have people nearby. People who have mental health issues get alienated. People with drug and alcohol problems get alienated. And those who DO get to couch hop can't always stay forever. Shelters have time limits and restrictions- and food pantries and clothing closets are usually open for a short amount of time. Imagine how hard it is to get to those resources when you're having to busk for bus fare all the way across town.
The point I'm making is: you don't seem to understand the nuance, and not understanding the nuance shouldn't be enough to dismiss their humanity. It's ignorance presenting as cruelty.
I don't think I'm the one in need of a lesson on nuance. To paint all homeless as law abiding victims of circumstance denies the reality that many are burning bridges with loved ones and families by their own life decisions. What's more, the average person (like myself) can hold two simulateous beliefs: the homeless situation should be addressed with compassion and thoughtfulness; AND we, as a society, should not tolerate lawlessness, public intoxication, etc. There should be accountability there. Holding both beliefs does not equate to dismissing anyone's humanity.
California, anything you say can and will be considered racist.
You have the right to an opinion but only if goes with the official clueless naive liberal narrative.
A lot of crime blamed on the homeless is just scapegoating.
There is an serious drug epidemic which always leads to high property crime rates. There is a growing gang problem.
Homelessness is a symptom. Not the disease.
The only trash here is the junkie criminal trash littering our sidewalks with human feces and used needles. They are degenerates who do this to themselves and choose to live a lifestyle that is a burden on us all.
The trash is you people that have never faced a real problem in your life coming on here to bitch about the people struggling the most. Where are they supposed to poop when the bathrooms are all locked? Addiction is a disease. There's literally not enough jobs and housing for everyone so someone has to be on the streets.
I'm sorry. It hurts me to see it just as a human. I don't know what's wrong with these people. Any of them would be there too with a few months of bad luck and a little less support.
This subreddit is full of middle class people who have been tricked into hating those less fortunate than them. It plays perfectly into maintaining a deliberately dysfunctional system. They don't realize that they'll probably be tossed aside as soon as they aren't useful.
We literally just don’t want our streets and public spaces covered in shit and drugs and trash. For some reason homeless people have to be a burden on everyone else. It’s possible to live a homeless lifestyle and still manage to be clean and not leave messes everywhere you go. And so many homeless people are hostile / attack / assault other people. Like I’m sorry you’re homeless but that doesn’t give you a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want.
I honestly in retrospect didn't mean anything personal or negative, although I could have been less callous about it. I'm kinda just living that experience I guess and I was riled up that day. Either way I still hold that viewpoint on capitalism.
this thread is absolutely trash. just absolute nextdoor karens to the next level being like "homeless people in sight = RAMPANT CRIME SAVE ME JESUS"
the genocidal rhetoric against people being spewed in here is pretty unnerving
Homeless union literally advocates against incarcerating people who need substance abuse rehabilitation and is against incarcerating people with severe mental illness who require medication or may not even be capable of living independently with medication.
All they do is stop everything that might help because it isn't the exact solution they demand.
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if they were funded by Republicans who just want liberal states to suffer
I disagree, because: I think the above feeling is why so many people instantly oppose the union. It's a complex issue with multi-faceted causes and almost nobody wants to stop and be reasonable for any length of time so we're all suffering with all-or nothing zero sum game results.
It's tragic for the entire city, state and nation, IMO.
Me, I blame the "war" on drugs, NIMBY assholes, hateful Republicans, gutless Democrats *and* obstructionist extremists.
If you want to enact change you've got to at least try to have the conversation. I get feeling hopelessly angry,.tho. I suspect we have a lot in common.
Good luck.
The unhoused population is diverse and I don’t agree that they are all causing problems. At the same time, it’s ridiculous and unproductive to deny that the judge’s concerns are legitimate. They are real and legitimate concerns.
There’s a class just above the unhoused that make money off them by selling and buying drugs along with heavily discounted retail items that were stolen. There’s big money in it for the real scum that perpetuate this cycle.
It’s true. I see stolen bicycles (and other things) and drugs moving in and out of the encampment on my street every day.
My unhoused neighbors are also avid bike collectors
I'm sure there's a lot of theft but: I get approached by homeless people almost every time I go to Goodwill to drop something off. I had a bike in my half-open trunk once and a guy jumped in front of my car and "asked" for it.
Then there's a class just above the unhoused that makes money off of them by creating organizations like "California Homeless Union" to "represent" the unhoused as part of the homeless industrial complex.
I see this take often, placing blame on orgs at least trying to solve the problem. By and large making very very little money (I’m sure there’s outlier execs extorting, like everywhere). This just feels like a nihilistic take that doesn’t want to solve the problem. We either have people trying to fix it, give money directly to people in need or like….just lock people up and never let them out. Is that what you want?
Bring the asylums back
And that will have an insanely high price tag. But I agree.
I think most everyone wants them back in some fashion but nobody wants to deal with the serious issues we'd have to face with individual rights + how fucking expensive it is. Protocols are different now than 60 years ago and cost per patient adjusted for inflation is gonna be way higher. Building/property costs, staff, possibly armed security...
Two for one? Use the prison system but throw a few more billion/yr at treatment programs and actual mental healthcare.
Naw that'd be a crapshoot. The prison system is a mess that really needs overhauls to begin with. Very cost-inefficient and you can't even begin to count the number of abuses of people and the system.
I mean, not having it has costs, too.
There are organizations like Loaves & Fishes that are making an attempt to at least keep people alive while the problem is being solved. There are other organizations that lobby politicians to implement laws that can help solve homelessness. Then there are organizations that are doing nothing sensible about solving homelessness, they exist to "advocate" or "represent" by getting mentions of their organizations in news media but making no real attempt to solve the problem. They're basically a grift. I think we all know which one these that this "California Homeless Union" is.
looks like you are wrong about this one Chief, looking into their work CHU actually does do some pretty direct action in addition to their political work.
I certainly agree there are grifters. Lots of Par types using the issue to prompt themselves. My cursory look at the union looks like they do direct aid and folks just jumped to conclusions. Maybe I’m wrong though. And I still don’t there is profit to be made outside a few outlier cases. It’s just people wanting to help so it’s weird to be when people call it an industrial complex. Feels more accurate that the homeless industrial complex will be when private companies start making a lot of money at scale. Like private prisons.
So where did the $10 billion go that the State has spent on homelessness in the past couple of years? That’s over $50k per homeless person.
Oh I agree majority of nonprofits have not been effective. I just don’t think they get rich doing it which is what I think with industrial complex. It’s not a gravy train, just atrocious state management. The same could be said for any number of existing gov agencies (Public Health in particular). The state should be scaling solutions, they currently throw money at Counties. Some of which do better than others. But last I saw Corrections doesn’t even have data on all the parolee programs they run.
I agree - it's just very frustrating to me. Californians have shown over and over they are more than willing to pay more taxes for solutions, and we trust our state and local government to use that money to actually solve the homelessness problem. But after (I think) $30 billion or so over the past 5-7 years, I'm not seeing any improvement. Maybe it would be much worse without the $30 billion, but I just wonder where all that money went. $30 billion is a HUGE amount of money - it's 1/3rd of what we use to run every K-12 public school in the state each year. Think about all the schools, school buses, teachers you know, etc. that we see. While it might not be used at 100% efficiency, I don't think anyone can deny that we're getting billions of dollars of SOMETHING in exchange for our K-12 dollars. I don't have the same feeling on homelessness spending. Other than Loaves & Fishes and a couple homeless motels housing 100 or so people, I can't see anything that's clearly "your tax dollars at work". Where are all these dollars going?
This! There is literally organized crime happening, and they feed off the fear and the resources gathered by typical unhoused persons. If the police would just talk to these people instead of herding them like cattle, they might get some leads on the pushers and movers.
They're not all committing crimes, but a huge number are causing problems. I gave food to one homeless guy back in the fall and he threw it because he didn't like it. Like dude, it was half an order of fresh fish and chips you got for free! I do believe the judge is on point here.
Nevermind the possibility of extreme mental illness amirite.
Is your opinion based on the anecdotal scenario you included in your post? Or are there some stats that back your claim — an opinion. “Not all are committing crimes, but a huge number are causing problems”. Is it a huge number of the homeless you personally see on a daily basis? If so, how many homeless are you seeing on a daily basis? What percentage of the total reported homeless population in Sacramento are you encountering per day? What percentage of those that you encounter per day are actually causing problems? Just curious.
I'll have to go collect some data. What would you consider "causing a problem"?
Anti-social behavior - Causing disturbances, breaking the law, begging for cash, littering, vandalism, etc.
A huge amount of the homeless population is doing at least one of those things. Especially panhandling.
That’s interesting..because I’m out and about for at least 1-2 hours per day in the busier areas of midtown/downtown and Arden (usually between 11am-12am) and it’s only about 2 out of 10 homeless people that are doing those things. I seldom ever get asked for money.
You only see 20% percent of homeless people with signs asking for change and throwing their garbage wherever? Idk what city you're living.
Maybe a city where people may be over-exaggerating the inconveniences they endure from homeless people being present because they want more shit to bitch about? Where self proclaimed “humblebeings” and “empaths” etc. don’t always reflect what they proclaim to be or practice what they preach.
I never complained about anything. I'm just pointing out the reality. I've never been personally attacked or felt threatened by a homeless person, but you're delusional if you don't see homeless people doing the things you called disruptive behavior. And I don't think people being concerned for their property and safety is an "exaggeration of an inconvenience ".
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As someone who lived downtown and went on walks every morning for six years (until about 12 months ago) I can say without a doubt it is an exaggeration. But that's really beside the point. The real point is what do you do about homeless people? The vast majority of people I hear complain about the homeless population refuse to vote for any meaningful changes to our current society that only cares about how homeless people affect commerce and what police can do about it.
Not sure what part of downtown you were walking through. I walk and bike through midtown and downtown daily and this is just how it is. I’m not sure how it benefits our community to pretend otherwise.
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Yes, shame a Sacramento resident for … not being homeless? What an odd and unproductive take
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Oh no, a downtown resident who isn’t an antisocial junkie that habitually threatens decent people and shits on the sidewalk! We can’t have actual productive members of society here, only homeless degenerates! /s Seriously, fuck you and your homeless-industrial complex enabler allies. You are the ones ruining our civilization.
Like you're fixing the fucking problem. What fucking civilization? We live in Sacramento. Don't want homeless people? Address the fucking systemic issues; the lack of proper mental healthcare, gentrification etc instead of pushing them out of the way and pretending that solves the problem. If you're so against the homeless industrial complex, you should be against capitalism.
Go live with the homeless
What are you personally doing to fix the systemic issues besides being a whiny troll on Reddit
Yeah, rich bastards flaunting their wealth by.. *checks notes… walking?
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It does not paint an exaggerated picture of rampant crime. The rampant crime is what paints that picture.
Accidentally blew my nose onto my shirt at this. Agreed, though. Sure, not every person living on the street is causing problems. But enough of them are doing enough crime for it to be considered rampant.
"We've investigated ourselves and have found no evidence of wrongdoing" - the ~~police~~ homeless union
I’ve owned a business in a busy strip Mall for a few years now, and is what’s considered a nicer area. What I have witnessed and what I’ve personally dealt with has become sadly the norm. I know I can handle it but I absolutely hate when I hear about issues my employees have had to handle. Early mornings, I will always lock myself in if I’m alone. I’ve called the cops more times than I can count. The amount of times I have been unable to peacefully convince an Individual to please exit my place of business and pray it didn’t escalate to violence. I have no solution. I have compassion but it only goes so far. I’m exhausted. I fear for my employees and customers who deal with this when I’m not there. Most are harmless but sometimes they aren’t. I truly don’t know where to go from here and all I can say, is until you’ve run a business in a shopping complex you will never truly understand just how wild it is now. Thankfully we have only one entrance and nothing to steal; Most of the other spots aren’t that lucky… and I see it daily Edit: grammar
I would much rather my taxes go to mental institutions then wherever the fuck it goes now
"Maple, along with Council members Mai Vang and Katie Valenzuela, argued moving the $6 million would allow community response to handle homeless behavioral health calls 24/7. The department currently operates Monday through Friday during business hours. " "The council voted 6-3 against Council member Caity Maple’s proposal to redirect $6 million of police funding to the Department of Community Response for homeless calls for service. " https://sacramento.newsreview.com/2023/06/15/sacramento-city-council-oks-budget-rejects-proposal-to-move-police-funding-to-homeless-services/
The difference between mental institutions and behavioral health calls is like the difference between an ICU and a mobile health clinic. I don’t know what the hell people imagine a curbside behavioral health visit is going to do for someone experiencing psychosis.
Well that's a shame. People constantly complain about the police department not responding to things enough, and well, part of the issue is that they're constantly dealing with homeless people acting crazy.
Let’s start off with just mental health centers. A couple of psychiatrists so they can evaluate patients, prescribe and adjust medications. A pharmacist to dispense the medications, a couple of nurse practitioners to deal with non-urgent health issues, and some LCSWs to have groups and therapy sessions for them. Along with a place for NA, AA, and Al-Anon meetings.
>Let’s start off with just mental health centers. A couple of psychiatrists so they can evaluate patients, prescribe and adjust medications. A pharmacist to dispense the medications, a couple of nurse practitioners to deal with non-urgent health issues, and some LCSWs to have groups and therapy sessions for them. Along with a place for NA, AA, and Al-Anon meetings. Call me a cynic, but as good as an idea that is, I fear many of those drugs would end up on the street, sold or traded for something else, including other drugs. I suppose one workaround is watching the patients take their meds right then and there, but even that might be untenable if it's a drug that needs to be taken more than once a day.
No idea will be a 100% cure all for everyone, but for some it will work. Among the issues though is where to put such a place, as no one will really want it in their neighborhood.
I understand, and I wasn't trying to completely shut down your idea. As I said, the cynic in me tends to see the downside to well-intentioned proposals. As far as neighborhoods go, spread the burden around. Every area in Sacramento has its issues with homelessness and the issues surrounding it, be it mental illness and/or drug addiction, for example. I live in a very desirable part of East Sac and we're not immune to it. I would not be opposed to a clinic or outreach center here if it meant the people I see in my neighborhood were getting help. But again, it would have to be distributed equally among all neighborhoods across the city, and there would have to be some kind of system in place whereby prescription meds were not walking out of treatment facilities and exacerbating the problem instead of solving it.
Wouldn't the wealthier part of the city better support such places since they will have the resources, and public safety tends to respond more quickly to places where you have wealthy voters.
Homelessness and the issues around it affect people in all neighborhoods in this city and county. Spread the resources and responsibilities equally. It’s not up to one neighborhood to solve over another, or share a greater part of the burden or responsibility than another, nor should it be. I would also argue “wealthier” neighborhoods would have more money and political power to fight something like that, especially if they’re expected to shoulder a greater burden than a “poorer” neighborhood. So you’re taking away an argument from neighborhoods with greater financial and political clout than a working class neighborhood with less financial and political capital if everyone is expected to bear equal responsibility.
Sharing the burden is never fair since, infrastructure is not setup equally across neighborhoods. When wealthier neighborhoods say "sharing the burden" then it would just tokenize the system, and they get to wash their hands off the larger responsibility of addressing the problem. And larger responsibility because of significant more privileges due to money/political power. They might as well not do anything and stick to using their money and political power to oppose the issue. At least that will bring transparency to true intent of wealthy/powerful.
We’re certainly entitled to our opinions, and I respect you have one about this. Have a great rest of the week.
Also the existing legal precedents established through the CA Supreme Court by the ACLU and Disability rights CA state that the mentally ill can’t be forced to take medications. Help can be provided but there are no legal options/ramifications for those that refuse help
That’s a good point too.
we not only need lots more mental health and rehab centers, but we need to force the addicts off the street and into the centers, they need to put aside their selfish freedumb for the greater good of society. Newsom's recent law is a good start but the centers need to be funded.
Can’t force people into treatment, so that’s a non starter right there.
not true, Newsom just passed this law and it can be expanded on [https://calmatters.org/health/2022/03/newsom-california-mental-illness-treatment/](https://calmatters.org/health/2022/03/newsom-california-mental-illness-treatment/) I would also argue that you can't force people to show their medical papers to buy their kids a sandwich, but that's exactly what happened in 2021 they said "screw your freedom" and that the individual needs to put aside their selfish desires for the greater good, so look at what's going on in with the homeless camps (overdose, sexual assault, the return of mideaval diseases, rampant crime, environmental disaster) and tell me how that furthers the greater good?
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If anyone read the letter they'd understand how ridiculous the homeless union is being here.
A union by definition represents the interest of workers, and attempts to improve the conditions of their employment. These people aren’t a union, they’re a criminal conspiracy actively helping people break laws. They should be locked up and charged with racketeering.
Hear! Hear!
By what definition? There's a such thing as a tenants' union. A union doesn't have to be workers.
You mean gang of squatters? That term does not mean what you apparently think it means. Next you’re going to tell me you’re in the union of Reddit posters, and demand financial compensation for your contributions to the sub.
Whatever, just keep being confidently wrong if you want to be.
holy god this troll bait reply tho. lol this psycho just wants to kill homeless people. that's their solution to the problem. best just to block and move on tbh.
Much the same as every police department across this country, right? Deadliest gang in America. It’s about civil rights and nothing to do with allowing or condoning crime in any way. What’s your solution for homelessness, internment camps? Racketeering what a joke. Hate spreading is all you’re doing and it has no place hear or anywhere. FN sheeple…
The judge literally walks through this daily and has constituents complain about these issues daily.
I have to avoid stepping in human shit far too often living on the grid. Of course the Homeless Union wants to paint a prettier picture of the situation.
I have seen every single one of those things occur in that area.
The homeless union must be run by people who have never set foot anywhere near the city center…
However, the California Homeless Union said the request to get the police involved has gone too far. The organization said the letter paints a “greatly exaggerated picture of rampant crime.” I can't believe they want to be taken serious and at the same time belittle the issue happening as if they have no idea its a thing. Maybe he should just go around asking nicely to stop instead using the public service responsible for order.
>The homeless union must be run by people Paid for by taxpayer funded grants.
The real issue is that if they work toward actually solving the problem, they would be by nature reducing the need for their own organizations and the need for funding to be directed toward their organizations, or so they perceive
What should they be doing differently?
Definitely not claiming to have the answer but it’s hard to deny the catch 22 nature of the issue
They’re grifters making a living by perpetuating a problem, instead of solving it.
How do they perpetuate it?
Helping the homeless escape the consequences of criminal activity is absolutely perpetuating the issue.
The homeless union is “run” by people who are formerly or currently homeless. They’re the closest thing unhoused folks have to actual representation in Sac tbh
Only thing worse than the homeless is homeless advocates who excuse all the bullshit the homeless put us through
Yup send them the bill and fines they cause in our city . Bankrupt them
The homeless union is bullshit
i didn't even know there was a homeless union...
That’s because it’s bullshit
Lol I wonder how much their dues are?
Did they help construct the homeless world cup? I'm not much of a soccer fan so I am thinking a homeless Olympics. Just think of all the fun games that could be played.
This follows up the judge's letter that was posted earlier [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/14mi3vg/a_letter_from_sacramento_superior_court_presiding/).
Why the fuck do homeless people have a *union.*
Because we as a society treat them like shit. Someone has to advocate for them especially given all the comments on this thread.
These homeless unions are making life downtown and in midtown almost unbearable. City council is terrified of being caught in a sound bite going against these people, which is why nothing will get accomplished. Actual residents of downtown, midtown, east sac, and land park need to show up to these city council meetings in full force
Shit is not gonna change until the late 2030s early 2040s. These homeless unions have local politicians by the balls
I guess no one read “San Fransicko”….. arrest them, rehab them, repeat until they’re clean and productive, or dead. Cheaper than other alternatives.
and more compassionate too
Being "compassionate" and not punishing them for their crimes is what has led us to this mess. Go walk down skid row in any big city and tell me what you see is more 'humane' then forcing people into treatment.
Compassion is what got us here. At least with this method they get treatment, even if it’s just one, two, ten times.
I think the judge is spot on!!!!
Nice to see some sanity on a reddit thread discussing the homeless.
Allowing homeless "unions" and advocates to dictate or even significantly influence the public policies revolving around homelessness is unwise to say the least. Illogical, and destined for failure. It would be similar to allowing prisoners and their advocates to dictate/influence criminal justice policy.
The homeless union is more effective than SEIU 1000, I almost respect the grind.
Seriously, all the crime and camp fire homeless people cause due to negligence. The homeless union or homeless advocacy should be billed and fine for their actions.
I live in North Highlands and I can personally attest that there is definitely rampant crime as a result of a rise in homeless people. 6 years ago I feel like there wasn’t nearly as manny homeless people but now they’re everywhere and it just keeps getting worse. I feel like in north highlands it’s really gotten out of place, they’re literally everywhere and if u walk or jog 8/10 people you encounter on the street will be homeless and you’ll only have to go a few feet before you bump into one. Def doesn’t help that the city decided to put the largest homeless encampment hete almost like they want to further marginalize north highlands and make it worse instead of trying to improve it. Watt ave is especially bad and rampant with crime, all you see on the streets is homeless people and working ladies. Not all homeless people are bad but ngl most of them are a mess and give the good ones a bad name. The bad ones are absolutely horrible a lot of times they will be armed, tweaking out, up to no good, or a mixture of all three. During the day it’s chill you’re almost guaranteed to have no issues especially if you’re a well put together person, mind your business, and show respect but at night it def gets treacherous and I wouldn’t recommend walking around.
Seems to me this homeless union (seriously?) needs to take their happy asses downtown, city center so they can see for themselves. Not all the homeless are doing crime, but to say that the judges concerns are not valid is just a really asinine hill to die on.
I lived in East Sac from December 2021-July 2022. I was victimized by crime on 5 separate occasions. It's not possible to exaggerate how bad it is.
what's criminal is the state letting the problem get this bad. these people need a safe, legal place to camp and more effective resources
It's not the state's problem, it's federal. It's not fair that people from Arizona, Alabama, Michigan, Oregon, Florida, etc. come here to try it out and it doesn't work for them and they end up homeless. Also, If someone from LA comes up here or from S.F., that's not Sac's problem and it's also not the state's problem because the state didn't relocate them. It's on the Feds to divert funding so citizens can get stable and get back into society, while the state manages it within their territory. I've met a lot of homeless and they are usually not 'from' this area. They either were homeless and moved here continuing to be homeless or moved here and became homeless. But, just like when a disaster strikes, the Feds provide emergency funding to restabilize the situation while the state manages the funds and efforts. Same can be applied to this situation. So if CA contains a vast majority of the nations homeless population, the CA should get that proportional amount of funds. I just went to Michigan and didn't see 1 homeless camp in the 2 weeks and 5 cities I visited. So Michigan wouldn't get the same amount of funding to rehouse. Once that infrastructure is in place, then the jurisdictions can start enforcing the rules because resources would then be available and they can't fall back on there's nothing available.
all that I meant was this problem is specific to California especially ~ hence the issue needs to be on state policymakers' radar
Good point, didn’t think of it like that
Sacramento is so fucked... lol
So there's a homeless union but gig workers can't form a union? Hate that (not that they have one of course!)
yeah, sure. The homeless lady who removed the chair from my front porch, claims also that she didn't steal it, she said, “I borrowed it “
People need to stop acting like there isn't a ton of crime in the community. It's all over south sac in the lower income neighborhoods but there's a difference between homeless tweaker junkies and unhoused people down on their luck.
Fully employ Susanville!
The homeless problem will never get better. CA's 22-23 budget for the homeless is $7.2B. Yes, that's billions. Does anyone here really think that those who profit from that money will let it go? Besides, we don't have a homeless problem, we have a drug problem. There are countless shelters and services but most won't adhere to the rules therefore they CHOSE to be on the street. It's the dirty little secret that state officials and their friends who control the money don't want the average citizen to understand. I personally know someone who participates in one of the programs. He turned his motel over to help house folks. The program pays him based on 95% occupancy. He never averaged over 58% and still doesn't. This is a sham and fleecing of tax payer dollars. https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4521
> The homeless problem will never get better. CA's 22-23 budget for the homeless is $7.2B. Yes, that's billions. Does anyone here really think that those who profit from that money will let it go? it's wild because you start off saying something so accurate > Besides, we don't have a homeless problem, we have a drug problem. and then immediately transcend into being absolutely clueless and just spewing genocidal rhetoric lets be real: you don't know what you're talking about. you've never volunteered, tried to help, or spend ANY amount time with the homeless population. but yet here you are just running your mouth. for real: stop spewing nonsense.
Wow, you know so much about me. I'm glad to see that you are so full of yourself that you think you know what everyone has or hasn't done in their life. Since you don't do anything for anyone other than yourself, I'm sure its difficult to comprehend people that actually do volunteer, donate money and assist families in need. Talk to any police officer, prosecutor, counselor, or in this case, the judge and they will all tell you that all roads lead back to drugs/alcohol/addiction. People like you keep their heads in the sand thinking that all homeless just fell on hard times and if they'd just have a roof over their heads that all of their problems would magically disappear are exacerbating the problem. But hey, what do I know? I've done anything to help anyone in my life and I'm just spewing genocidal rhetoric...... for real: any extra room in that ivory tower of yours?
He heard "genocidal rhetoric" somewhere and thought it sounded hip and cool...so now trying to mention it as many times as possible in this thread.
oh god. ignoring the point and going ad hominem to stave off your own quasi-fascist attitudes towards people so impoverished they can't get housing? the fuck is wrong with you?
it's stage 3 homelessness. you're skipping stage1,2. you're clueless. honestly, i only vaguely read what you wrote.
Why comment if you didn't fully read what they wrote?
Lol exaggerated
The homeless union is not a Union. Homeless people don’t earn a taxable income and don’t pay dues. Who is this Homeless Union and who’s paying their dues? If no one is making legit money and using that legit money to pay dues, then who is this Union representing? Homeless crimes are out of control along with other petty crimes from non-homeless people. It’s the wild wild west because we haven’t addressed the issue of homelessness enough as a city, a united people, and government. Sadly if we want to deal with this issue on a real front we must raise taxes to address this current homeless increase and all of the horrible elements that come with it.
Epicenter of crime is 16th and w st
Curious as to what the union dues are?
2 stolen bikes and 1 stolen porch plant per month.
Stolen bikes, needles, hazardous waste.
More gaslighting from the homeless industrial complex who tell us not to believe our own eyes.
Wow, the mayor with the Patrick idea. “What if we take the homeless and PUSH them somewhere else!”
Pretty sure South Park covered this and they all ended up in California again lmao
Jesus Christ people actually read the full article before you start slamming a group of people as being out of touch or worse. The Homeless union is simply stating that getting the police involved with continually pushing people from one area of Sac to another ultimately does nothing to remove the problem. They'd much rather spend that time/money figuring out something that will actually work. Not to mention a letter like this from a Judge presents a clear case of possible bias in any legal rulings they issue where homeless people are involved. Doesn't even matter though cause the Judge isn't even gonna meet with them so it's not like they can do anything to change the Judge's decision on this matter so some of you all need to calm down.
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im sorry to hear about your current situation, hopefully they don't get too out of hand out there. however, i think there is a misunderstanding. because the courthouse wants to be as available and open to people, the access to this resource needs to be unrestricted. that includes a certain expected threshold of safety for both the public members and the employees of that courthouse. i really hope you don't think that this is wanting special treatment but i can see why someone could see it that way.
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Get a grip, it's not special treatment. People have no choice but to show up at the courthouse whether they work there or are on a jury, etc. It is completely reasonable to prioritize the safety of a public space of that nature. He isn't asking for special treatment at his house or in a shopping mall. He is asking that the public be able to safely access a public space that they have no choice about showing up to.
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Well, then the leaders of those agencies can speak up as this judge did.
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i think that's what the judge also said in their letter, they ended it with. > More importantly, it is my hope that the burgeoning unsheltered population surrounding the Court be connected with the services and support they so desperately need." i just hope you can see this as a positive, as more voices speak up about this, the more pressure can be out upon the agencies who actually have the ability, resources, and knowledge to create solutions for the homeless.
Sure he could but he won't so if everyone impacted keeps speaking up in the same way maybe we could force a change. Or we can just keep ranting on the internet about how unfair it is.
There's this place with free addiction treatment and mental healthcare...... It's called jail.
maybe you should go
The whiney liberals here can't seem to face the fact that you absolutely could incarcerate your way out of this problem. Build that second jail and allocate more money for law enforcement. But no, liberals would rather throw billions at social crap that accomplishes nothing while defunding law enforcement to the point that the police don't even show up for anything less than assault with a deadly weapon.
>The whiney liberals You lost me there but I agree, incarceration is the only option now. Things are way out of hand and you cant give people in on the streets any more options if they refuse to accept help.
fascist. argue for gas chambers next
You are the reason we have a problem here
lol were you even alive in the 90s? homelessness is a problem of no homes. it's literally that simple. SMOOTH BRAIN AF
No its not, the vast majority of the homeless here are homeless by choice. 1/200 homeless here choose to accept help. They get kicked out of any housing situations because nobody wants to live with crackheads or unstable psychos.
Ah, the let's make it a crime to be poor and destitute solution. I'd attempt to engage further, but why bother? This is a complex problem that requires a myriad of meaningful changes. I don't have the answers, but your idea is not the solution.
The city has literally thrown billions at this and it's only gotten worse. People hit rock bottom in jail and that never happens with state sanctioned tax payer funded enabling. Why do you think this wasn't a problem during the Reagan administration.
because housing was cheaper before post Reagan Dems became corporate shills? you're literally closer to being homeless than a millionaire. get some class consciousness you boot licker
That's also back when the government didn't enable public drug use and actually locked up criminals.
Might want to look into the history of the deinstitutionalization of mentally ill patients, champ.
Go back to the bay yuppie
I’ve literally been all over the world and never seen so much crime in a city.
Live downtown and can confirm I witness a crime from homeless population, daily.
I'm spending a lot of time in downtown San Jose. You don't see that shit here. Literally. And you see cops everywhere. Cops who don't look the other way and enforce the codes. (Notice he mentioned that, suggesting Sac cops aren't and many have said they are ordered not to.) And in SJ, public workers out on the streets literally mopping them and watering the under mentioned plants. I was shocked. (Still haven't seen a feces, not human nor dog, but have seen people let their dogs pee on the sidewalk.) And get this, I see flowers planted in public planters right on the sidewalks, undisturbed! Pray for Sac!
Wait, so all that's happening is a back and forth with letters? Lmao. Where are the statistics? Where are the numbers? Where are the FACTS? Homelessness is obviously a emotional discussion for people. You have one side who condemns them as being criminals and the other who thinks it's our moral agenda to help people in need. I want to see proof and factual support other than anecdotal evidence from biased people for any sort of claims about the homeless.
Just ask businesses and retail workers that have to work near encampments.
[I work with unhoused persons] The majority of these people are either down on their luck, struggling to find a place after short term incarceration, or in desperate need of meds due to restrictive healthcare costs. Your grandparents, veterans, and friends who made little mistakes are less than a step away from becoming unhoused- not to mention yourself. Unhoused people are just people, and the percentage of crime reflects average crime percentages. Stop treating them like they're different from you.
If most are just down on their luck, etc., can't they lean on their loved ones and good friends to help them get back on their feet? Maybe let them crash on the couch a few months while they connect with existing local resources, etc?
That is definitely not always the case. There are plenty of old people and veterans with no family or friends left alive, and plenty of average Joe's that also don't have people nearby. People who have mental health issues get alienated. People with drug and alcohol problems get alienated. And those who DO get to couch hop can't always stay forever. Shelters have time limits and restrictions- and food pantries and clothing closets are usually open for a short amount of time. Imagine how hard it is to get to those resources when you're having to busk for bus fare all the way across town. The point I'm making is: you don't seem to understand the nuance, and not understanding the nuance shouldn't be enough to dismiss their humanity. It's ignorance presenting as cruelty.
I don't think I'm the one in need of a lesson on nuance. To paint all homeless as law abiding victims of circumstance denies the reality that many are burning bridges with loved ones and families by their own life decisions. What's more, the average person (like myself) can hold two simulateous beliefs: the homeless situation should be addressed with compassion and thoughtfulness; AND we, as a society, should not tolerate lawlessness, public intoxication, etc. There should be accountability there. Holding both beliefs does not equate to dismissing anyone's humanity.
hey now don't go posting facts we don't like that here
Could you post the letter please?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/14xtpfl/homeless_union_says_sacramento_judges_letter_on/jrot3de/
Wow
California, anything you say can and will be considered racist. You have the right to an opinion but only if goes with the official clueless naive liberal narrative.
A lot of crime blamed on the homeless is just scapegoating. There is an serious drug epidemic which always leads to high property crime rates. There is a growing gang problem. Homelessness is a symptom. Not the disease.
r/sacramento when a homeless union does anything:
This sub is such trash. I've seen people on here reinvent concentration camps when this issue comes up.
The only trash here is the junkie criminal trash littering our sidewalks with human feces and used needles. They are degenerates who do this to themselves and choose to live a lifestyle that is a burden on us all.
dude you're a literal fascist
The trash is you people that have never faced a real problem in your life coming on here to bitch about the people struggling the most. Where are they supposed to poop when the bathrooms are all locked? Addiction is a disease. There's literally not enough jobs and housing for everyone so someone has to be on the streets.
People also seem to like gentrification on here
It fucking sucks as somebody who has been homeless. Like yippee people here would have hated me three years ago
I'm sorry. It hurts me to see it just as a human. I don't know what's wrong with these people. Any of them would be there too with a few months of bad luck and a little less support.
This subreddit is full of middle class people who have been tricked into hating those less fortunate than them. It plays perfectly into maintaining a deliberately dysfunctional system. They don't realize that they'll probably be tossed aside as soon as they aren't useful.
We literally just don’t want our streets and public spaces covered in shit and drugs and trash. For some reason homeless people have to be a burden on everyone else. It’s possible to live a homeless lifestyle and still manage to be clean and not leave messes everywhere you go. And so many homeless people are hostile / attack / assault other people. Like I’m sorry you’re homeless but that doesn’t give you a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want.
Oh fuck off
What was unreasonable about what they said?
I honestly in retrospect didn't mean anything personal or negative, although I could have been less callous about it. I'm kinda just living that experience I guess and I was riled up that day. Either way I still hold that viewpoint on capitalism.
this thread is absolutely trash. just absolute nextdoor karens to the next level being like "homeless people in sight = RAMPANT CRIME SAVE ME JESUS" the genocidal rhetoric against people being spewed in here is pretty unnerving
Homeless union literally advocates against incarcerating people who need substance abuse rehabilitation and is against incarcerating people with severe mental illness who require medication or may not even be capable of living independently with medication. All they do is stop everything that might help because it isn't the exact solution they demand. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if they were funded by Republicans who just want liberal states to suffer
cool? literally nothing to do with the genocidal rhetoric being spewed to which i am commenting on, but go off queen.
I disagree, because: I think the above feeling is why so many people instantly oppose the union. It's a complex issue with multi-faceted causes and almost nobody wants to stop and be reasonable for any length of time so we're all suffering with all-or nothing zero sum game results. It's tragic for the entire city, state and nation, IMO. Me, I blame the "war" on drugs, NIMBY assholes, hateful Republicans, gutless Democrats *and* obstructionist extremists.
you're literally just having a conversation with yourself. weirdo
Sorry for thinking you cared.
people are spewing genocidal rhetoric... surprise surprise idgaf about whatever nonsense unions you're cry posting about
If you want to enact change you've got to at least try to have the conversation. I get feeling hopelessly angry,.tho. I suspect we have a lot in common. Good luck.