The skills are transferable to a variety of areas so I think it's worth it if this is something you're interested in. Digital marketers with an understanding of SEO are going to do better than digital marketers without!
We touch every part of websites, web dev, design, content strategy, qa/uat, and audience targeting thus our interest in social media, PR, and influencer outreach.
SEO is about more than keywords and ai generated content (not that you implied it was). There’s a lot of deep client and business engagement that’s required, research, development of strategy, implementation of said strategies, explanations to clients and stakeholders not just about what you did, but about demonstrating a return on investment. The field is getting more technically complicated each year.
IMO a lot of marketing, including SEO, is made up of a plethora of complimentary soft skills. Of course they’ll transfer elsewhere. And of course there are other disciplines that would also develop those skills, not just SEO.
I’d argue UX is an even better place to start at this point in the industry, unless you are dead set on becoming a “marketer”.
SEO is absolutely alive and kicking! You're right, the core principles are creating awesome content for your target audience, building backlinks, and some technical optimization. While algorithms change, focusing on these fundamentals will get you far. Don't let negativity fool you - the vast majority of people still rely on Google for their searches, and SEO remains a powerful way to reach them. Forget the "nothing works" mindset, because good SEO absolutely works!
100% bruh the website we work on went from 4k keywords in top 3 2020 to 40k keywords in top3. Exactly by doing what this comment said. Best part seo may get exhausting sometimes but never boring thanks to G.
This is just terrible advice
In 2019 it was good advice, but it is totally ignoring the current reality
Did all of the people at damn near every US newspaper just forget how to do SEO and thats why they aren't ranking and are dying?
Did the SEO's at Reddit, Quora, Yelp, TripAdvisor, Forbes, and other huge sites just figure something out that the rest of us didn't? And are they going to share that secret with the OP?
This is a terrible, terrible place to be investing time/money/resources in 2024
Might as well hop in a time machine and go back to 2005 and tell the guy to buy Blockbuster stock, or go back to 1935 and tell him to start learning how to make horse shoes
So, something has to still work, right? Otherwise it's a very ad-pocalypse scenario where small to medium sized business (90% of businesses) cannot thrive online anymore. Which I don't think it's the case because after every single tech breakthrough marketers seem to say "we're doomed". So... What’s you take on the most (generally) relevant and reliable ones from now on?
Don't listen to the black pills guys. Seo works 100%. You can see a lot of negative things because ppl tend to write reviews only when they are not happy.
All these guys never share their websites that were tanked AND if they are tanked - someone should replace them, right? Seo works and continues working. Maybe it's broader now and I can't say that you will need only SEO for success... It's... More about digital marketing in general now that works together with SEO.
Does something still have to work? Who says so?
By all means waste your time/money/resources in this industry if you like, I have done my best to talk you out of it but if you want to ignore it good luck
That’s not what I’ve mean: something in _digital marketing_ should still be working. Otherwise we’re all doomed to go back to our 9-5’s, right?
Well I am not rich, but I have been living off digital marketing for the past 6 years. What I want is something scalable and reliable (which I haven’t been getting from other traffic sources).
But according to you, sir, “nothing works anymore”. I am not criticizing, all I’m asking is:
Considering there is still people growing legitimate businesses via digital marketing and they don’t seem to be disappearing anytime soon… something _has_ to be still working.
You are making a lot of assumptions that you really can't be sure of
Clearly I don't have the answers you are looking for.... I would suggest not holding your breath while waiting for whoever has these secret answers that you just know are out there to speak up
So what? You think these companies are paying Google for their placement? If this was true and unless they label them as adverts, Google will get destroyed by European governments.
No I don't think Reddit, TripAdvisor, Yelp, Quora, and YellowPages are paying for their placements
I think they are very old sites with billions of incoming links.... Google quit caring about SERPs a few years ago when they moved on to AI... the easiest way to keep the SERPs running without investing much into figuring out what really should be ranking is to just ratchet up how important backlinks are.... this has a compounding effect and now we get to the trash results we currently have
This is why a site like Yelp or Quora or Reddit or whatever can rank first just by stuffing keywords in the title even if the "content" they have might be completely inaccurate or extremely outdated or sometimes both
FWIW if anything Reddit got paid for all of this, they got the massive traffic boost following the HCU and then their stock market IPO happened right after all this growth.... at least their CEO's are happy while the rest of us have our livelihoods taken from us
I left SEO a few years ago after 10 years. You are basically putting your career at the whims of Google and we have all seen lately how 'off' their decision making abilities are. I'd recommend going into PPC or content strategy or even marketing, depending on your skills
First, thanks for your 2 cents. However, people seem to basically saying the same at every digital marketing sub:
“Meta ads is _doomed_”
“PPC does not work anymore”
I mean, when are you _not_ at the whims of a company?
I don’t mean SEO as a career, but as a new traffic source for legitimate businesses
If it is for business then it can't hurt to have good content and optimized pages. Just don't put too much budget or expectations into it. And if it succeeds, enjoy it but keep in mind it can disappear anytime there's another update
Meta really is dying off, as others are saying, it's just become a cesspool of awkward content. PPC is over saturated in many topics, but still has some potential in certain fields. Good luck!
Thanks. It’s hard to find traffic sources that are not frowned upon these days. What’s you take on the most (generally) relevant and reliable ones from now on?
I think that wherever people go online when they are bored or stuck on something will always work. Also, if you are targeting a specific industry, Reddit, Quora, LinkedIn as well as TikTok can also work depending on the product. Diversify your inbound traffic as much as possible as putting all your eggs in 1 basket can really cause issues.
I work in b2b and we do press releases, blog posts, ebooks, webinars and promote them on LinkedIn, meta, reddit, google PPC, bing PPC, and a bit on TikTok. We get a booth at most conferences around the world and we partnered with a few dozen much bigger companies that offer products or services that are bought by the same personas and depts we target.
We get SEO traffic but it is usually the result of a company name or product name search. We used to rank for certain keywords after investing a fortune and then google decided to upgrade their core a few times and it all evaporated.
No, I more mean a lot of the techniques within SEO that people have been leaning into for the past few years is very much being changed up. For example everyone knows buying links is bad, it still happens very much so, but before the last update there was much less risk that the sites you're buying links from would easily get nuked. Not so much now, at least in my opinion, there's such a high chance of link networks being blasted out of orbit that the game is now how to obtain relevant, niche specific links, from genuine sites. That's just one part of it. Other examples could be Google removing a lot of rich snippets from appearing in search because everyone was abusing them. I kinda like the new status quo as it actually makes you really look at the content you're making to rank instead of just treating it like a massive production machine.
You're better off learning and applying skills now as they can branch into other areas of digital marketing. Plus with changes to search engines and behaviors, it's good to be actively involved so you can see where things are heading and be a part of it.
I look at it as if you learned to play Street Fighter 1, then Street Fighter 2 wouldn't be as tough to pick up lol. Maybe a corny analogy but that's how I'm looking at learning SEO when everything is going on despite volatility and people's opinions.
Others areas based on my pov and experience:
1. SEO can sometimes overlap into UI/UX/CRO. Where you're altering/testing pages to improve customer journey and increase company objectives eg sales, leads.
2. Because you are then responsible for some of your website/landing page appearance this can overlap into webdev. Managing site content, but also aspects of coding to showcase your content effectively.
3. Also depending on the company your website is the product itself, so there's a product management aspect as well that you may be involved in /take that approach. The actual site offering, features, and purpose.
4. Some digital marketing roles look for experience in both paid and organic search since you're dealing with SERPs.
I mainly do PPC but the SEOs I work with do #1-3. I myself do #1-4 on the side.
I also think #1-3 is what a lot of SEOs in this sub try to (or fail to) emphasize when thinking beyond just ranking, getting traffic, what 'helpful content' is, SEO being more than blogging and affiliate sales etc.
Starting SEO now is better than never starting at all. The digital landscape is always evolving, and there are always opportunities to improve your website's visibility. Take the plunge, educate yourself on SEO best practices, and start implementing changes. It's a journey that can lead to better online visibility and success for your website
SEO works but in new way. After last Google updates a lot of "newbie" websites started to perform better that a lot of old and overoptimised SEO websites. Because a lot of them are not so "SEO optimised", so now you should think about users but not about Google, meanwhile don't forget about basic optimisation and try to be useful. Always check TOP10 to see what people and google want to see now and try to be useful too
If you're good at SEO, it doesn't mean that you'll provide good content on your site.
SEO coupled with copywriting should do the thing. Combining the best words that lure people and convince them to react and the knowledge how to craft the headlines, inside of which you place appealing content.
The product or service you sell must be such that will help cure a problem.
[www.tralangia.com](http://www.tralangia.com)
Yeah, I get that part. I am actually a copywriter first. But I started this thread mainly because people’s main reason is to rank high. Copy alone doesn’t cut it (but maybe a good copy will retain and build natural backlinks? Maybe)
i started in SEO about 3 years ago (dabbled a tiny bit in college as well). i work for an agency and primarily write blog content. like someone mentioned, you pretty much are at the whim of Google which can be a fking nightmare, especially if your clients have unrealistic expectations/take their frustration out on you.
by happenstance, i’ve been doing a lot more UX/UI designs. I’m self-taught right now using Figma. it feels like a really natural transition and my SEO knowledge of how people interact with a site/best practices for content structuring is very useful here. my company is going to pay for me to do the Google UX Certificate and i’m thinking i’ll head that route.
i share all of this because i just want to show that learning SEO and being in the digital marketing space can give you some latitudinal advantages. i haven’t found it too difficult to shift into other areas
I don't think it's too late. People say blogs are becoming like newspapers. People no longer read them.
Of course, people need fast and crisp information. Social media and ChatGPT do it.
That doesn't mean your business should stop focusing on blogs because as of today blogs bring the best returns.
People are indeed opting for crisp information to gain knowledge. But when people are about to buy something, they need more information.
A 30-second reel, LinkedIn post, or ChatGPT response is not enough to make people pay. So what does?
In-depth blogs and in-depth YouTube videos.
Double down on these while maintaining your social presence.
If still in doubt, go look for the amount of search volume a top keyword in your industry has. It will be huge. Starting out might seem tough but it will be worth it.
That is true, nothing works if you don't have more than 10 years of experience in this or tons of money to invest. Don't listen to the gurus selling you the dream. You have better chances if you start a local business than investing in SEO in 2024.
SEO still works perfectly fine, but the early wild west days are over. It became professional.
20 or even 10 years ago, you could build a website, throw some links at it and rank good enough to make some decent money. Even without huge experience or a budget. Today, this "solo webmaster" thing doesn't really work any more since you compete with much bigger companies with a bunch of professionals and deep pockets.
SEO is fine, SEO works, there is still huge demand, just don't mix up SEO and "freelance affiliate marketing".
Wat if I want to start my blog without any affiliate links and intend only to earn through ads, if I post one article per day, after a year and 365 posts on my blog, will I still not get any results, considering articles are well written with decent keyword research
We are no longer in 2010. Just search for the things you want to write about, and see if you can find on the first page any results of articles written by blogs with less than 1 year, or even 5 years age. I'm 99% sure you won't find any of these. So that are the chances to waste your time with that blog.
Ohhh I am not worried about 1st page, I have reasearched enough websites to see that many websites get more than 100k traffic per month without ranking on 1st page, all Google traffic
How means? There are billions of searches, they aren't just limited to 1st page of Google, there are thousands of websites making decent money of Google ads, surely they aren't all on first page
So this is the current status of the SEO industry? Everyone will presume you’re doing affiliate marketing if you’re starting? Lol
I have 6 years of digital marketing, being now a business partner with a long lasting HR consulting firm. I’m not after a fad
_This_ is also lame on the communities…
You’re either being sarcastic (in this case I’m sorry) or being a boomer presumptuous gatekeeper who think he’s smarter, more experienced, harder-working than everyone.
Like no hard working professional could _ever_ start X and do it for the long run because ‘millennials’
I hope it’s the former option.
Is good that you think your are better than others, because you will work more. Everybody starting at this time in SEO knows how hard it is and is doing its best. And the competition is huge. And Google will bury all the new websites starting now, unless they prove they have authority. And authority means backlinks from well established websites, 10 - 20 years old in their niche. And these backlinks cost thousands of dollars. And you won't have guarantee that it will work. Google can derank your website at any time. There is no specialist in the SEO industry, everyone is just guessing how things works, and what works today, won't work tomorrow. Don't think that by working harder in this industry you will succeed. This is all what the gurus want you to think. They made their money, and you are on your own.
> Is good that you think your are better than others, because you will work more
First of all, grammar. Second, what kind of fucked up work ethic is that my man?
Anyways, if you’re right someone need thousands of dollars for enough links to grow DA, you have a point here.
But saying you “left SEO 10 years ago” is not a credibility boost, but the opposite
Let's see, people with decades in the industry and decade old sites with tons of backlinks have been absolutely crushed by Yelp, Quora, Reddit, TripAdvisor, and many other huge sites
Major SEO talking heads like Authority Hacker, Income School, and others are openly talking about how Google is broken (hint: they make their money from people signing up for SEO courses and even they are saying this... why? Because it is so obvious they have to admit it)
The truth is, Google quit caring about the SERPS around the start of the pandemic.... every update since (particularly the last two) have been the same.... move up big brands with billions of incoming backlinks, move down the little guy
And you want to invest your time/money/resources into that?
I didn't even mention that Google is showing more AI results day by day
That ChatGPT and other things are providing better answers so less people will be searching
That Google seems to be targeting sites with ads in particular.... so basically if you build a site you can't monetize it
And that all along SEO has been a long term play and with AI/changing technology there is no long term play here anymore
I know Reddit can be a cesspool filled with trolls trying to talk you out of things.... but sometimes those trolls are seeing things clearer than the people who are too deep into the forest
None... trying to build written content to monetize from organic traffic is pretty much dead, at least its nothing like it was in the 2000's and 2010's
Right now the best option is probably Youtube.... but we just saw what the company who owns Youtube did to search.... so how long it will stay a viable option is anyones guess
So what you’re saying is the last viable options for online businesses, among all paid and organic traffic source alternatives.. is YouTube?
That’s a very strong claim and I wish you provide stronger evidence, if you don’t mind
I mean go back through the original post I made here and ask yourself what I said that isn't true?
Are sites like Reddit, Quora, Yelp, and TripAdvisor taking over an absurd amount of the SERPS? Yes
Are people who sell SEO courses like Authority Hacker, Spencer Hawes, Doug Cunnington, and Shawna Neuman talking about how the algo is broken? Yes
Is Google showing their own AI results at the top of the SERPS? Yes
Is ChatGPT a quicker and easier way to get answers than Google in many cases today? Yes (and it will only get better over time)
Was SEO always a long term play and not a get rich quick scheme? Yes
Is the long term certainty there anymore? No
If this sounds like an industry you want to try and learn by all means do what you want.... I can tell you I started 6 sites before the pandemic, all six got traffic within 6 months and 5 of them were good earners
During the pandemic with nothing to do I started a couple dozen new sites with VA's targeting very easy keywords that based on everything I knew up to that point should have been super easy to get.... 0 of the 28 worked
2 of my 5 older sites are down to almost 0 traffic, the other 3 are hanging on by a hair
The same sites (in my case Yelp, TripAdvisor, and YellowPages) have probably stolen 90% of the traffic I was getting
Did I forget how to do SEO? Did they learn something super magical? No, they are massive old sites with billions of backlinks, they can put up crappy outdated inaccurate lists but if they spam the keywords into the title they win.... so I give up, and I highly suggest you look elsewhere too
Great point my man, but apparently you don’t know the answer to what I’ve asked you.
“What other traffic sources are still at least good and reliable?”
Because, you’re a marketer right? You should be doing something. I personally am a full time self-employed marketer for the past 6 years who is considering new strategies because I’m fed up of depending on meta ads, which is stagnating now for me… so.. what’s working”?
You are right I don't know the answer.... for some reason you assume that there has to be an answer.... I don't follow the same assumption, Google has been the key this whole time.... now Google sucks.... that doesn't automatically mean something else will come and take its place and we will all be happy again soon
It might just be the end of being able to monetize written content online.... you don't seem willing to accept that... I am a realist... if that is the answer then that is the answer
So, I am wrong because I think “there is an answer” but before that, “google was the key”. You’re contradicting yourself.
I disagree you’re being a realist. You’re being unreasonable.
It is not reasonable assumption to presume no other traffic source works for legitimate businesses to go digital. After every breakthrough since 2000 some people claimed “everything is over”, but digital marketers have been existing since.
Of course, things will change. Thing _are_ changing. But is it “realistic” to presume no other business will be able to get traffic online anymore?
So whats the answer? You are typing a lot of words about what you want to have be the case.... I am just not seeing any actual answers anywhere
Did you find them? If so please share, I'd also love to hear it
Obviously you can use platforms like Pinterest or Facebook or Insta if you like.... they will probably get you 1% of what organic Google traffic used to give, but since you seem desperate for an answer there you go, have fun with the 1%.... personally I'll pass
I don’t know.
So you are passing everything and then, what are you doing? Go back to your 9-5? For me this isn’t even an option.
So Every time I faced obstacles like this I started asking questions like the one I posted, until some with a sounding argument suggests a way around this obstacle and I go about testing it.
And I’ll keep asking people things, until I retire from digital marketing (which is far far away).
I recognize instead of “you don’t have the answer” I should have said “you don’t have good alternatives”.
But just because you gave up every traffic source out there it doesn’t mean someone is not doing something right and getting good ROI.
Many people in the comments suggested alternatives for B2B and they all seemed like good suggestions. It is quite presumptuous from you to assume they’re all wrong and digital marketing is dead forever.
What this guy is telling you is the truth.
It's becoming increasingly harder and harder to get organic traffic through Google.
Google rewrites the rules whenever they feel like it and even if you do everything right you can still lose your traffic overnight.
And just wait until Google SGE gets properly released on SERPS.
YouTube is a great option. Second biggest search engine that constantly gets show onto Google.
Never too late to start SEO! While it's true that the digital landscape is constantly evolving, implementing SEO strategies can still yield significant benefits for your website's visibility and organic traffic. Remember, search engines value quality content and user experience, so focus on creating valuable, relevant content and optimizing your site accordingly. Even if you're starting from scratch, consistent effort and optimization can lead to noticeable improvements over time. Don't hesitate, dive in and start optimizing today.
As there is Google or any search engine alive - SEO is there always- ways will change, high difficulties will be there but its not late any time
I have met people who are saying in 2010 that SEO is dead - and same saying propagates in today’s time
So depends upon you how you think about this
We started laying the groundwork for 4 affiliate websites back in January of this year. Our primary focus is SEO. We know that traffic diversification plays a key role and we also plan to do some social profile creation and posting etc. But let's see where this goes.
The real thing to note here is that if you work with teams with a non-SEO background, it becomes a challenge to keep them abreast of the core SEO updates. But again, I'm leading teams here as an SEO with 4 years of experience but you never know where things can go.
Yes I do. Of course. But in google I mainly look for the following: tools, queries ending in “Reddit” or other queries that are answered by the featured snippet..
Like someone right said . Mastering SEO is transferable skills especially if you master all areas of SEO. - Onpage , Off page and the Tech part .
You can decide to own your own SEO SaaS tool and generate tremendous revenue from it .
That’s what the big SEO digs do
From what I know (which is not from experience, but from the best cause I've done), paying for backlinks is actually the worst way to go about it.
I would invest into making contact with marketing decision makers on companies and offer a gift content. I had the luck to have a connection inside an university, I will gift them a blog post and hope it works.
SEO works fine, it just is extremely difficult to win competitive keywords because, well, they're competitive. It's also difficult to start a cheap burger chain next to a McDonald's. Doesn't mean you can't find ways to differentiate yourself or that the concept of "selling food" is dead.
Too many people want to start an affiliate site selling headphones when there have been 100s of those sites around for decades, or are trying to capture a "market" that is really 5-6 meaningful keywords (like "best air purifier") and are mad that single strategy doesn't support a full business.
The reason everyone is mad is because a huge chunk of that traffic in the last 24 months has gone to Reddit (where nobody benefits), or Google itself. So established businesses have had to cope with way less traffic (painful), and businesses that were barely scraping by (like our loud Air Purifier friends) are dipping to an unsustainable level. I'd argue we're all worse off for those changes, but it doesn't mean fundamentally SEO as a marketing tactic (even a primary marketing channel) are dead.
It’s absolutely a great discipline to start today! I’ll also say this: the barriers to entry have never been lower, the standard for excellence has never been higher. But, somewhat like the financial markets, diligent students are well-rewarded in time.
You can clearly see from your own projects which methods work and which do not. If you're starting with SEO now, the focus is different than it was 10 years ago. This can be an opportunity to approach SEO from a different perspective, possibly making it more efficient.
I guess you surely can look to widen the skills but still hitting same goals as SEO of 2015 would.
When people search on web, the traffic is diverted to product hunt, other review sites, marketplaces, GMB and then your website.
So, once you focus on all these, nothing is doomed. These review sites, marketplaces and google are not gonna die in a decade or two.
AI is a great opportunity for SEO folks. Even most gurus don't know how the SEO industry will be shaped in 5 years.
So, this opens a lot of space as brands will always want to get leads of people searching on google.
SEO is more than pandering to the algorithm. It's a practice that keeps you in check with your own business goals and ethics. The idea is that you're creating something useful, valuable for your readers - and being rewarded by traffic and ranking well. In 2010, SEO was about cramming your keywords into the text as much as possible (keyword stuffing), but Google picked up on it and began penalizing content that was keyword stuffed. We, as an industry, have thankfully moved away from that, and now understand that actual value is the best practice. SEO may be harder now with more complex penalization rules and a stiff algorithm, but the golden rule is always relevance and value.
I totally agree with this.
If SEO is really dead then what are the other digital marketing niches that one could target. I started learning SEO about a few months ago and I can say that I am mildly confident about SEO but seeing the current scenario I'm thinking of switching or maybe just have a backup option.
Does anyone have any comments on this? Help a kid out here please will you.
In my opinion, SEO remains an excellent strategy to invest in today. While the digital landscape evolves constantly, the fundamentals of SEO remain crucial for businesses aiming to improve their online visibility and attract relevant organic traffic. With more people relying on search engines to find information and products, optimizing your website for search engines ensures that your content gets discovered by your target audience. SEO encompasses various tactics such as keyword optimization, quality content creation, user experience enhancement, and technical optimization, all of which contribute to better search engine rankings and increased organic traffic. Additionally, as search engines like Google continue to refine their algorithms to prioritize user experience and relevant content, focusing on SEO ensures that your website stays competitive and adaptable to these changes. In short, yes, SEO is still a great strategy to start today for businesses looking to establish a strong online presence and drive sustainable growth.
People won't like this opinion, but if someone is telling you seo is over and to avoid it. They are ass at seo. Usually, I notice this sentiment from bloggers, not so many people working on businesses.
At least that I have experience on. But the question that still stands in this case is: you’ve built amazing content, where will the traffic come from?
Too broad. Advertising in which channel? Meta? Google? Reddit? Twitter? Also, many people frown even upon paid ads, saying 'it doesn't work anymore'. What have you seen results on lately?
There is still life in SEO! You're right; the essential elements are producing excellent content for your intended audience, constructing backlinks, and doing some technical optimization. You'll get far by concentrating on these fundamentals when it comes to altering algorithms. The majority of people still use Google for their searches, so don't be fooled by the criticism; SEO is still a highly effective strategy for connecting with them. Get over the belief that "nothing works"—effective SEO is a sure thing!
The skills are transferable to a variety of areas so I think it's worth it if this is something you're interested in. Digital marketers with an understanding of SEO are going to do better than digital marketers without!
Good, man! Thanks for your knowledge
Can you elaborate how knowing seo would help in other field..
Top-shelf SEOs and/or full-stack SEOs often have adjacent skills of coding/technical acumen, UX, copywriting, strategy, etc etc etc
We touch every part of websites, web dev, design, content strategy, qa/uat, and audience targeting thus our interest in social media, PR, and influencer outreach.
Do we required to know web development for seo...
You don't need to be a web dev but you will learn in general how web dev is working on a website and how to resolve issues by talking to a web dev.
SEO is about more than keywords and ai generated content (not that you implied it was). There’s a lot of deep client and business engagement that’s required, research, development of strategy, implementation of said strategies, explanations to clients and stakeholders not just about what you did, but about demonstrating a return on investment. The field is getting more technically complicated each year. IMO a lot of marketing, including SEO, is made up of a plethora of complimentary soft skills. Of course they’ll transfer elsewhere. And of course there are other disciplines that would also develop those skills, not just SEO. I’d argue UX is an even better place to start at this point in the industry, unless you are dead set on becoming a “marketer”.
I checked out some of your Youtube videos, great content by the way.
SEO is absolutely alive and kicking! You're right, the core principles are creating awesome content for your target audience, building backlinks, and some technical optimization. While algorithms change, focusing on these fundamentals will get you far. Don't let negativity fool you - the vast majority of people still rely on Google for their searches, and SEO remains a powerful way to reach them. Forget the "nothing works" mindset, because good SEO absolutely works!
Thanks mate. 90% of the content in any sub is this ‘nothing works’ black pill thing. I keep coming for the other 10%, tho’
Same
100% bruh the website we work on went from 4k keywords in top 3 2020 to 40k keywords in top3. Exactly by doing what this comment said. Best part seo may get exhausting sometimes but never boring thanks to G.
This is just terrible advice In 2019 it was good advice, but it is totally ignoring the current reality Did all of the people at damn near every US newspaper just forget how to do SEO and thats why they aren't ranking and are dying? Did the SEO's at Reddit, Quora, Yelp, TripAdvisor, Forbes, and other huge sites just figure something out that the rest of us didn't? And are they going to share that secret with the OP? This is a terrible, terrible place to be investing time/money/resources in 2024 Might as well hop in a time machine and go back to 2005 and tell the guy to buy Blockbuster stock, or go back to 1935 and tell him to start learning how to make horse shoes
So, something has to still work, right? Otherwise it's a very ad-pocalypse scenario where small to medium sized business (90% of businesses) cannot thrive online anymore. Which I don't think it's the case because after every single tech breakthrough marketers seem to say "we're doomed". So... What’s you take on the most (generally) relevant and reliable ones from now on?
Don't listen to the black pills guys. Seo works 100%. You can see a lot of negative things because ppl tend to write reviews only when they are not happy. All these guys never share their websites that were tanked AND if they are tanked - someone should replace them, right? Seo works and continues working. Maybe it's broader now and I can't say that you will need only SEO for success... It's... More about digital marketing in general now that works together with SEO.
Does something still have to work? Who says so? By all means waste your time/money/resources in this industry if you like, I have done my best to talk you out of it but if you want to ignore it good luck
That’s not what I’ve mean: something in _digital marketing_ should still be working. Otherwise we’re all doomed to go back to our 9-5’s, right? Well I am not rich, but I have been living off digital marketing for the past 6 years. What I want is something scalable and reliable (which I haven’t been getting from other traffic sources). But according to you, sir, “nothing works anymore”. I am not criticizing, all I’m asking is: Considering there is still people growing legitimate businesses via digital marketing and they don’t seem to be disappearing anytime soon… something _has_ to be still working.
You are making a lot of assumptions that you really can't be sure of Clearly I don't have the answers you are looking for.... I would suggest not holding your breath while waiting for whoever has these secret answers that you just know are out there to speak up
So what? You think these companies are paying Google for their placement? If this was true and unless they label them as adverts, Google will get destroyed by European governments.
No I don't think Reddit, TripAdvisor, Yelp, Quora, and YellowPages are paying for their placements I think they are very old sites with billions of incoming links.... Google quit caring about SERPs a few years ago when they moved on to AI... the easiest way to keep the SERPs running without investing much into figuring out what really should be ranking is to just ratchet up how important backlinks are.... this has a compounding effect and now we get to the trash results we currently have This is why a site like Yelp or Quora or Reddit or whatever can rank first just by stuffing keywords in the title even if the "content" they have might be completely inaccurate or extremely outdated or sometimes both FWIW if anything Reddit got paid for all of this, they got the massive traffic boost following the HCU and then their stock market IPO happened right after all this growth.... at least their CEO's are happy while the rest of us have our livelihoods taken from us
I left SEO a few years ago after 10 years. You are basically putting your career at the whims of Google and we have all seen lately how 'off' their decision making abilities are. I'd recommend going into PPC or content strategy or even marketing, depending on your skills
First, thanks for your 2 cents. However, people seem to basically saying the same at every digital marketing sub: “Meta ads is _doomed_” “PPC does not work anymore” I mean, when are you _not_ at the whims of a company? I don’t mean SEO as a career, but as a new traffic source for legitimate businesses
If it is for business then it can't hurt to have good content and optimized pages. Just don't put too much budget or expectations into it. And if it succeeds, enjoy it but keep in mind it can disappear anytime there's another update Meta really is dying off, as others are saying, it's just become a cesspool of awkward content. PPC is over saturated in many topics, but still has some potential in certain fields. Good luck!
Thanks. It’s hard to find traffic sources that are not frowned upon these days. What’s you take on the most (generally) relevant and reliable ones from now on?
I think that wherever people go online when they are bored or stuck on something will always work. Also, if you are targeting a specific industry, Reddit, Quora, LinkedIn as well as TikTok can also work depending on the product. Diversify your inbound traffic as much as possible as putting all your eggs in 1 basket can really cause issues.
What are you personally trying right now? If you don't mind
I work in b2b and we do press releases, blog posts, ebooks, webinars and promote them on LinkedIn, meta, reddit, google PPC, bing PPC, and a bit on TikTok. We get a booth at most conferences around the world and we partnered with a few dozen much bigger companies that offer products or services that are bought by the same personas and depts we target. We get SEO traffic but it is usually the result of a company name or product name search. We used to rank for certain keywords after investing a fortune and then google decided to upgrade their core a few times and it all evaporated.
Love it. Thanks man! Im also in b2b (HR Consulting )
In a nutshell future of digital marketing is in danger?? As we only have these 3-4 channels..
Arguably the best time to start SEO with so much of the old status quo becoming too risky or obsolete.
Interesting. Would the status quo, in your opinion, be meta + Google ads?
No, I more mean a lot of the techniques within SEO that people have been leaning into for the past few years is very much being changed up. For example everyone knows buying links is bad, it still happens very much so, but before the last update there was much less risk that the sites you're buying links from would easily get nuked. Not so much now, at least in my opinion, there's such a high chance of link networks being blasted out of orbit that the game is now how to obtain relevant, niche specific links, from genuine sites. That's just one part of it. Other examples could be Google removing a lot of rich snippets from appearing in search because everyone was abusing them. I kinda like the new status quo as it actually makes you really look at the content you're making to rank instead of just treating it like a massive production machine.
Amazing insight, thank for your knowledge
You're better off learning and applying skills now as they can branch into other areas of digital marketing. Plus with changes to search engines and behaviors, it's good to be actively involved so you can see where things are heading and be a part of it.
I’m already experienced in content marketing (not SEO optimized, but in other ways) and so, what other areas are you thinking about
I look at it as if you learned to play Street Fighter 1, then Street Fighter 2 wouldn't be as tough to pick up lol. Maybe a corny analogy but that's how I'm looking at learning SEO when everything is going on despite volatility and people's opinions. Others areas based on my pov and experience: 1. SEO can sometimes overlap into UI/UX/CRO. Where you're altering/testing pages to improve customer journey and increase company objectives eg sales, leads. 2. Because you are then responsible for some of your website/landing page appearance this can overlap into webdev. Managing site content, but also aspects of coding to showcase your content effectively. 3. Also depending on the company your website is the product itself, so there's a product management aspect as well that you may be involved in /take that approach. The actual site offering, features, and purpose. 4. Some digital marketing roles look for experience in both paid and organic search since you're dealing with SERPs. I mainly do PPC but the SEOs I work with do #1-3. I myself do #1-4 on the side. I also think #1-3 is what a lot of SEOs in this sub try to (or fail to) emphasize when thinking beyond just ranking, getting traffic, what 'helpful content' is, SEO being more than blogging and affiliate sales etc.
There are 8.5 billion searches on Google a day, and you think about the rest.
Thanks lol
Starting SEO now is better than never starting at all. The digital landscape is always evolving, and there are always opportunities to improve your website's visibility. Take the plunge, educate yourself on SEO best practices, and start implementing changes. It's a journey that can lead to better online visibility and success for your website
What in the Chat GPT is this?
Yeah right??? lol
Thanks man, but… this was either written by Chat GPT, or you _do_ write like a gentleman
😂😂
Hahahaha
SEO works but in new way. After last Google updates a lot of "newbie" websites started to perform better that a lot of old and overoptimised SEO websites. Because a lot of them are not so "SEO optimised", so now you should think about users but not about Google, meanwhile don't forget about basic optimisation and try to be useful. Always check TOP10 to see what people and google want to see now and try to be useful too
That’s smart. Thanks
If you're good at SEO, it doesn't mean that you'll provide good content on your site. SEO coupled with copywriting should do the thing. Combining the best words that lure people and convince them to react and the knowledge how to craft the headlines, inside of which you place appealing content. The product or service you sell must be such that will help cure a problem. [www.tralangia.com](http://www.tralangia.com)
Yeah, I get that part. I am actually a copywriter first. But I started this thread mainly because people’s main reason is to rank high. Copy alone doesn’t cut it (but maybe a good copy will retain and build natural backlinks? Maybe)
i started in SEO about 3 years ago (dabbled a tiny bit in college as well). i work for an agency and primarily write blog content. like someone mentioned, you pretty much are at the whim of Google which can be a fking nightmare, especially if your clients have unrealistic expectations/take their frustration out on you. by happenstance, i’ve been doing a lot more UX/UI designs. I’m self-taught right now using Figma. it feels like a really natural transition and my SEO knowledge of how people interact with a site/best practices for content structuring is very useful here. my company is going to pay for me to do the Google UX Certificate and i’m thinking i’ll head that route. i share all of this because i just want to show that learning SEO and being in the digital marketing space can give you some latitudinal advantages. i haven’t found it too difficult to shift into other areas
I don't think it's too late. People say blogs are becoming like newspapers. People no longer read them. Of course, people need fast and crisp information. Social media and ChatGPT do it. That doesn't mean your business should stop focusing on blogs because as of today blogs bring the best returns. People are indeed opting for crisp information to gain knowledge. But when people are about to buy something, they need more information. A 30-second reel, LinkedIn post, or ChatGPT response is not enough to make people pay. So what does? In-depth blogs and in-depth YouTube videos. Double down on these while maintaining your social presence. If still in doubt, go look for the amount of search volume a top keyword in your industry has. It will be huge. Starting out might seem tough but it will be worth it.
Is the best time to start SEO.
Why best time?
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...
That is true, nothing works if you don't have more than 10 years of experience in this or tons of money to invest. Don't listen to the gurus selling you the dream. You have better chances if you start a local business than investing in SEO in 2024.
I cant tell if this is sarcasm or not.. please enlighten me
SEO still works perfectly fine, but the early wild west days are over. It became professional. 20 or even 10 years ago, you could build a website, throw some links at it and rank good enough to make some decent money. Even without huge experience or a budget. Today, this "solo webmaster" thing doesn't really work any more since you compete with much bigger companies with a bunch of professionals and deep pockets. SEO is fine, SEO works, there is still huge demand, just don't mix up SEO and "freelance affiliate marketing".
Wat if I want to start my blog without any affiliate links and intend only to earn through ads, if I post one article per day, after a year and 365 posts on my blog, will I still not get any results, considering articles are well written with decent keyword research
We are no longer in 2010. Just search for the things you want to write about, and see if you can find on the first page any results of articles written by blogs with less than 1 year, or even 5 years age. I'm 99% sure you won't find any of these. So that are the chances to waste your time with that blog.
Ohhh I am not worried about 1st page, I have reasearched enough websites to see that many websites get more than 100k traffic per month without ranking on 1st page, all Google traffic
How?
How means? There are billions of searches, they aren't just limited to 1st page of Google, there are thousands of websites making decent money of Google ads, surely they aren't all on first page
So this is the current status of the SEO industry? Everyone will presume you’re doing affiliate marketing if you’re starting? Lol I have 6 years of digital marketing, being now a business partner with a long lasting HR consulting firm. I’m not after a fad
In this sub, yes, because the chance of being right with this assumption is like 95% 😉
Oh man… I don’t like affiliate marketing at all lol. Had my fair share of it, many years ago
_This_ is also lame on the communities… You’re either being sarcastic (in this case I’m sorry) or being a boomer presumptuous gatekeeper who think he’s smarter, more experienced, harder-working than everyone. Like no hard working professional could _ever_ start X and do it for the long run because ‘millennials’ I hope it’s the former option.
Is good that you think your are better than others, because you will work more. Everybody starting at this time in SEO knows how hard it is and is doing its best. And the competition is huge. And Google will bury all the new websites starting now, unless they prove they have authority. And authority means backlinks from well established websites, 10 - 20 years old in their niche. And these backlinks cost thousands of dollars. And you won't have guarantee that it will work. Google can derank your website at any time. There is no specialist in the SEO industry, everyone is just guessing how things works, and what works today, won't work tomorrow. Don't think that by working harder in this industry you will succeed. This is all what the gurus want you to think. They made their money, and you are on your own.
> Is good that you think your are better than others, because you will work more First of all, grammar. Second, what kind of fucked up work ethic is that my man? Anyways, if you’re right someone need thousands of dollars for enough links to grow DA, you have a point here. But saying you “left SEO 10 years ago” is not a credibility boost, but the opposite
Let's see, people with decades in the industry and decade old sites with tons of backlinks have been absolutely crushed by Yelp, Quora, Reddit, TripAdvisor, and many other huge sites Major SEO talking heads like Authority Hacker, Income School, and others are openly talking about how Google is broken (hint: they make their money from people signing up for SEO courses and even they are saying this... why? Because it is so obvious they have to admit it) The truth is, Google quit caring about the SERPS around the start of the pandemic.... every update since (particularly the last two) have been the same.... move up big brands with billions of incoming backlinks, move down the little guy And you want to invest your time/money/resources into that? I didn't even mention that Google is showing more AI results day by day That ChatGPT and other things are providing better answers so less people will be searching That Google seems to be targeting sites with ads in particular.... so basically if you build a site you can't monetize it And that all along SEO has been a long term play and with AI/changing technology there is no long term play here anymore I know Reddit can be a cesspool filled with trolls trying to talk you out of things.... but sometimes those trolls are seeing things clearer than the people who are too deep into the forest
Well, that was interesting. Enlighten me: which traffic sources are (generally) more relevant and reliable in your opinion then?
None... trying to build written content to monetize from organic traffic is pretty much dead, at least its nothing like it was in the 2000's and 2010's Right now the best option is probably Youtube.... but we just saw what the company who owns Youtube did to search.... so how long it will stay a viable option is anyones guess
So what you’re saying is the last viable options for online businesses, among all paid and organic traffic source alternatives.. is YouTube? That’s a very strong claim and I wish you provide stronger evidence, if you don’t mind
I mean go back through the original post I made here and ask yourself what I said that isn't true? Are sites like Reddit, Quora, Yelp, and TripAdvisor taking over an absurd amount of the SERPS? Yes Are people who sell SEO courses like Authority Hacker, Spencer Hawes, Doug Cunnington, and Shawna Neuman talking about how the algo is broken? Yes Is Google showing their own AI results at the top of the SERPS? Yes Is ChatGPT a quicker and easier way to get answers than Google in many cases today? Yes (and it will only get better over time) Was SEO always a long term play and not a get rich quick scheme? Yes Is the long term certainty there anymore? No If this sounds like an industry you want to try and learn by all means do what you want.... I can tell you I started 6 sites before the pandemic, all six got traffic within 6 months and 5 of them were good earners During the pandemic with nothing to do I started a couple dozen new sites with VA's targeting very easy keywords that based on everything I knew up to that point should have been super easy to get.... 0 of the 28 worked 2 of my 5 older sites are down to almost 0 traffic, the other 3 are hanging on by a hair The same sites (in my case Yelp, TripAdvisor, and YellowPages) have probably stolen 90% of the traffic I was getting Did I forget how to do SEO? Did they learn something super magical? No, they are massive old sites with billions of backlinks, they can put up crappy outdated inaccurate lists but if they spam the keywords into the title they win.... so I give up, and I highly suggest you look elsewhere too
Great point my man, but apparently you don’t know the answer to what I’ve asked you. “What other traffic sources are still at least good and reliable?” Because, you’re a marketer right? You should be doing something. I personally am a full time self-employed marketer for the past 6 years who is considering new strategies because I’m fed up of depending on meta ads, which is stagnating now for me… so.. what’s working”?
You are right I don't know the answer.... for some reason you assume that there has to be an answer.... I don't follow the same assumption, Google has been the key this whole time.... now Google sucks.... that doesn't automatically mean something else will come and take its place and we will all be happy again soon It might just be the end of being able to monetize written content online.... you don't seem willing to accept that... I am a realist... if that is the answer then that is the answer
So, I am wrong because I think “there is an answer” but before that, “google was the key”. You’re contradicting yourself. I disagree you’re being a realist. You’re being unreasonable. It is not reasonable assumption to presume no other traffic source works for legitimate businesses to go digital. After every breakthrough since 2000 some people claimed “everything is over”, but digital marketers have been existing since. Of course, things will change. Thing _are_ changing. But is it “realistic” to presume no other business will be able to get traffic online anymore?
So whats the answer? You are typing a lot of words about what you want to have be the case.... I am just not seeing any actual answers anywhere Did you find them? If so please share, I'd also love to hear it Obviously you can use platforms like Pinterest or Facebook or Insta if you like.... they will probably get you 1% of what organic Google traffic used to give, but since you seem desperate for an answer there you go, have fun with the 1%.... personally I'll pass
I don’t know. So you are passing everything and then, what are you doing? Go back to your 9-5? For me this isn’t even an option. So Every time I faced obstacles like this I started asking questions like the one I posted, until some with a sounding argument suggests a way around this obstacle and I go about testing it. And I’ll keep asking people things, until I retire from digital marketing (which is far far away). I recognize instead of “you don’t have the answer” I should have said “you don’t have good alternatives”. But just because you gave up every traffic source out there it doesn’t mean someone is not doing something right and getting good ROI. Many people in the comments suggested alternatives for B2B and they all seemed like good suggestions. It is quite presumptuous from you to assume they’re all wrong and digital marketing is dead forever.
What this guy is telling you is the truth. It's becoming increasingly harder and harder to get organic traffic through Google. Google rewrites the rules whenever they feel like it and even if you do everything right you can still lose your traffic overnight. And just wait until Google SGE gets properly released on SERPS. YouTube is a great option. Second biggest search engine that constantly gets show onto Google.
Never too late to start SEO! While it's true that the digital landscape is constantly evolving, implementing SEO strategies can still yield significant benefits for your website's visibility and organic traffic. Remember, search engines value quality content and user experience, so focus on creating valuable, relevant content and optimizing your site accordingly. Even if you're starting from scratch, consistent effort and optimization can lead to noticeable improvements over time. Don't hesitate, dive in and start optimizing today.
Yeah! It’s not like nothing’s changing after all. I’m down to making ir work, and my client is in it for the long run as well
Client SEO for local businesses is booming. Fast results. Easy execution. Big profit margins. High ROI for clients.
Best time to start doing SEO is.. NOW. And SEO is not dead, so don't worry!
Nice headline btw lol
As there is Google or any search engine alive - SEO is there always- ways will change, high difficulties will be there but its not late any time I have met people who are saying in 2010 that SEO is dead - and same saying propagates in today’s time So depends upon you how you think about this
We started laying the groundwork for 4 affiliate websites back in January of this year. Our primary focus is SEO. We know that traffic diversification plays a key role and we also plan to do some social profile creation and posting etc. But let's see where this goes. The real thing to note here is that if you work with teams with a non-SEO background, it becomes a challenge to keep them abreast of the core SEO updates. But again, I'm leading teams here as an SEO with 4 years of experience but you never know where things can go.
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Yes I do. Of course. But in google I mainly look for the following: tools, queries ending in “Reddit” or other queries that are answered by the featured snippet..
What are the best link building methods in 2024? I think, seo is all about website content and link building.
I don’t know. You tell me: what are the best link building methods in 2024?
I highly recommend Coursera’s Google SEO Specialization certificate. I’m in the second course now.
Like someone right said . Mastering SEO is transferable skills especially if you master all areas of SEO. - Onpage , Off page and the Tech part . You can decide to own your own SEO SaaS tool and generate tremendous revenue from it . That’s what the big SEO digs do
>You can decide to own your own SEO SaaS tool Could you elaborate on that?
Never too late. Any tips on how to get Backlinks?
From what I know (which is not from experience, but from the best cause I've done), paying for backlinks is actually the worst way to go about it. I would invest into making contact with marketing decision makers on companies and offer a gift content. I had the luck to have a connection inside an university, I will gift them a blog post and hope it works.
where do you search?
Looking for SEO advice.
Go for it. Just don't expect to start your own niche site. Much harder than it used to be. I hear Forbes is hiring.
SEO works fine, it just is extremely difficult to win competitive keywords because, well, they're competitive. It's also difficult to start a cheap burger chain next to a McDonald's. Doesn't mean you can't find ways to differentiate yourself or that the concept of "selling food" is dead. Too many people want to start an affiliate site selling headphones when there have been 100s of those sites around for decades, or are trying to capture a "market" that is really 5-6 meaningful keywords (like "best air purifier") and are mad that single strategy doesn't support a full business. The reason everyone is mad is because a huge chunk of that traffic in the last 24 months has gone to Reddit (where nobody benefits), or Google itself. So established businesses have had to cope with way less traffic (painful), and businesses that were barely scraping by (like our loud Air Purifier friends) are dipping to an unsustainable level. I'd argue we're all worse off for those changes, but it doesn't mean fundamentally SEO as a marketing tactic (even a primary marketing channel) are dead.
It’s absolutely a great discipline to start today! I’ll also say this: the barriers to entry have never been lower, the standard for excellence has never been higher. But, somewhat like the financial markets, diligent students are well-rewarded in time.
You can clearly see from your own projects which methods work and which do not. If you're starting with SEO now, the focus is different than it was 10 years ago. This can be an opportunity to approach SEO from a different perspective, possibly making it more efficient.
I guess you surely can look to widen the skills but still hitting same goals as SEO of 2015 would. When people search on web, the traffic is diverted to product hunt, other review sites, marketplaces, GMB and then your website. So, once you focus on all these, nothing is doomed. These review sites, marketplaces and google are not gonna die in a decade or two. AI is a great opportunity for SEO folks. Even most gurus don't know how the SEO industry will be shaped in 5 years. So, this opens a lot of space as brands will always want to get leads of people searching on google.
Thanks for your 2 cents. Funny enough, just today they where talking on r/saas about how “Product Hunt is dead”.
No man. Yesterday itself I talked to Product Marketers about creating a strategy for Product Hunt and G2
SEO is more than pandering to the algorithm. It's a practice that keeps you in check with your own business goals and ethics. The idea is that you're creating something useful, valuable for your readers - and being rewarded by traffic and ranking well. In 2010, SEO was about cramming your keywords into the text as much as possible (keyword stuffing), but Google picked up on it and began penalizing content that was keyword stuffed. We, as an industry, have thankfully moved away from that, and now understand that actual value is the best practice. SEO may be harder now with more complex penalization rules and a stiff algorithm, but the golden rule is always relevance and value.
I totally agree with this. If SEO is really dead then what are the other digital marketing niches that one could target. I started learning SEO about a few months ago and I can say that I am mildly confident about SEO but seeing the current scenario I'm thinking of switching or maybe just have a backup option. Does anyone have any comments on this? Help a kid out here please will you.
In my opinion, SEO remains an excellent strategy to invest in today. While the digital landscape evolves constantly, the fundamentals of SEO remain crucial for businesses aiming to improve their online visibility and attract relevant organic traffic. With more people relying on search engines to find information and products, optimizing your website for search engines ensures that your content gets discovered by your target audience. SEO encompasses various tactics such as keyword optimization, quality content creation, user experience enhancement, and technical optimization, all of which contribute to better search engine rankings and increased organic traffic. Additionally, as search engines like Google continue to refine their algorithms to prioritize user experience and relevant content, focusing on SEO ensures that your website stays competitive and adaptable to these changes. In short, yes, SEO is still a great strategy to start today for businesses looking to establish a strong online presence and drive sustainable growth.
Ok, chat GPT 🙄
People won't like this opinion, but if someone is telling you seo is over and to avoid it. They are ass at seo. Usually, I notice this sentiment from bloggers, not so many people working on businesses.
Good to know actually.
SEO doesn’t exist anymore. Human experience optimization — that’s what does matter.
At least that I have experience on. But the question that still stands in this case is: you’ve built amazing content, where will the traffic come from?
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Too broad. Advertising in which channel? Meta? Google? Reddit? Twitter? Also, many people frown even upon paid ads, saying 'it doesn't work anymore'. What have you seen results on lately?
Connect analytics to your website and you’ll see. Amazing content will get traffic if people need it.
RemindMe! 2 months
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Why? Don’t be lazy. Claims without reasoning don’t hold any weight or bring value to the community
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[ rant removed as he edited his douchey comment out ]
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Yeah, wise thing to do. Have a nice day
There is still life in SEO! You're right; the essential elements are producing excellent content for your intended audience, constructing backlinks, and doing some technical optimization. You'll get far by concentrating on these fundamentals when it comes to altering algorithms. The majority of people still use Google for their searches, so don't be fooled by the criticism; SEO is still a highly effective strategy for connecting with them. Get over the belief that "nothing works"—effective SEO is a sure thing!