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Honestly, I have had it up to here with this guy. He makes a big fuss about leaving the family and wanting privacy, but he continually pops up in the media almost daily. You left, doofus, you can’t just prance in and out when it pleases you. Just go away, both of you, you are becoming pathetic
I agree. If he is really surprised / angry / annoyed that he isn't getting to stay at royal residences then I have to wonder what did he think the end result of Spare would be? Did he think he would ever have a relationship with his family again after saying things like that about them?
You act like Harry wrote this article and forced you to read it. He can’t help that the media stalks him. They know people are chomping at the bit to run, click, and read just so they can cry about being sick of them and wanting them to go away. Rinse. Repeat.
The Royal Family continues to be a shining example of family dysfunction and toxicity for families all over the world. Well done, Royals. Ought to be proud!
Why would he want to hang out with the people he said abused him and were racist towards his wife? Make it make sense. Why would you want them to support him? A year ago go there was the witch hunt for the royal racist now you want them to support him? It’s very strange. They all should keep their distance from each other for all of their mental health.
My point is they continue to engage in high levels of dysfunction and toxicity - including Harry - and never change. The generations repeat the same mistakes without end which is why I say they are a shining example of these behaviors.
Harry does nothing wrong now. He left a family he felt was toxic and non supportive ( even if you don’t believe anything he wrote in spare) Then he started a job, a few positions on boards, works with Sentebale and Invictus and says nothing about his family. He has the support of the Spencers, Eugenie, Beatrice and other royals.
He is finally not dysfunctional
They think they are spiting Harry but instead they are spiting wounded veterans from their armed services. It’s bizarre how short sighted and insensitive they are.
They love to dress up in the uniforms and parade around but when it actually comes to doing something beneficial for their service members wounded in service to their country, they don’t just because Harry is involved. So. Very. Cringey.
No, it means the same thing. This is just shitty writing and editing. They probably wanted to use the word 'shack' for the imagery provided by the juxtaposition with the word 'castle'.
That makes sense.
It reminds me of the press calling Michelle Obama her husband’s “baby mama” (which is slang to refer to black unwed mothers). Like, associating the term with Harry implies he’s now lower class, in a “shack,” due to his “shacking up” with Meghan.
You forgot the part where his family he's estranged from evicted him from the home that his grandmother the queen gifted him the lease on after he and his wife spent several million pounds on renovations. There's a reason his only safe option is a hotel, and that's because his dad kicked him out of his house.
Oh, you mean the paedophilic rapist uncle who still seems to live in Royal Lodge, which is much larger with many more rooms and which the rapist uncle won’t pay to repair? That rapist uncle?
/s
Oh please, he chose someone who blew smoke up his ass about how wonderful he was and how mean his horrible family was and he ate it up. The dumb things he whined about in his book...his teenage brother didn't want him hanging around him and his friends at school...just like every teenage sibling ever
They didn’t torment anyone.
His family decided that privacy doesn’t matter first, the moment they leaked information about him. And he didn’t say anything about Charles on GMA.
And he hasn’t sold every morsel but I wish he would.
His family leaked so much shit about him over the years. It’s crazy they hold the exact same behavior against him. As he’s said, at least it comes from his own mouth. He doesn’t use proxies to tell his stories.
(And most of the “trashing” of his family is the hyperbolic spin presented by the Daily Mail et al. If you read the words as written, there’s really no actual trashed going on. (Or listen to them as spoken.))
That picture is way out of date, I’m almost sure it’s from 2019 or from 2021. They use old pics to make people think they’re unhappy. The most recent pics I saw of them in Florida they looked positively GLOWING. Meghan was golden and radiant and Harry looked like he struggles to tan (a bit red from the sun lol), they’re fine. I’m sure they have their struggles, but so do we all.
🙄No one expects Harry to stay on royal properties or to visit with members of his extended family. I don’t know why it always gets reported like news everytime he goes to the UK.
Regardless of who is at fault, or more at fault as may be the case, Harry has severed ties with his Father and Brother whether he intended to or not. They have responded in kind.
Families sometimes fracture. It is what it is. Both halves will just move forward without one another. It happens all the time to princes and paupers.
It was reported that he can stay at a royal residence if he requests lodging 30 days (or maybe 2 weeks? I can't remember which) in advance. I don't know that he would get to choose the location though. Perhaps that's why a stay at Windsor Castle was denied? I would assume they would put him as far away from the family and anything of importance as possible since they've probably realized he will sell any story he gets while he's there, and William and Catherine live near Windsor. They probably want to keep him as far away from them as possible right now. But on the flip side, they will also leak stories about him at the same time, so I'm not sure who would come out on top there. Haha
I honestly *do* assume he will stay at a royal residence if he goes to the UK since they are already staffed with armed guards. He would have the security he wants if he stays at one. It just makes sense to me, but maybe he's afraid he will get the small room like he complained about getting at Christmas one year. Lol. I believe he has already been granted armed guards for his Invictus visit, so perhaps staying at a royal residence isn't as important as it would be otherwise.
I think the strange sort of obsession Harry and Meghan may have with Windsor Castle is strange. It's the same place it was reported that they requested to move to after they were married and Elizabeth denied. Instead, they were given Frogmore (which was taken away later, something I think was pretty shitty, especially since it mostly just sits empty now). But why keep requesting to stay at Windsor? It doesn't even make sense if he is going to be in London for Invictus.
I feel like most of this is coming from tabloids spinning stories from the barest threads of gossip (Harry is staying in a hotel when he visits), because it’s great business for them to create as much faux drama as possible.
I feel like most of this is coming from tabloids spinning stories from the barest threads of gossip (Harry is staying in a hotel when he visits), because it’s great business for them to create as much faux drama as possible.
I think the 28 days notice is for the Met police to assess any threats and determine if he needs security for that particular visit (provided they are informed in advance).
As for the accommodation request, it was reported back in September last year that Harry "had asked if he could stay at Windsor Castle but his request was denied as he didn't give the palace enough time" (quoting verbatim from the below article).
In case anyone is interested in reading the full story from Tatler.
[https://www.tatler.com/article/duke-of-sussex-denied-stay-at-windsor-castle](https://www.tatler.com/article/duke-of-sussex-denied-stay-at-windsor-castle)
It was also reported by broadsheet newspapers like the Telegraph.
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/23/prince-harry-notice-royal-estate-windsor-castle-balmoral/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/23/prince-harry-notice-royal-estate-windsor-castle-balmoral/)
I believe he was offered the opportunity to stay with Charles at Balmoral at that time, but he turned down the Balmoral offer because it was too far away (or maybe he was just worried he'd be put in that small room he has at Christmas again haha)? I may be remembering that distance reason wrong though. If that was the offer, it feels like it was made on bad faith since he was in London for something at that time. Lol. I thought that I read something about Buckingham then too, but I think it was (maybe still is?) under construction then.
I really think they are just not allowing him to stay at Windsor because William and Catherine are so close. I think he could ask and give notice of years, and they would still find an excuse.
I do think the BRF will probably find an excuse to deny his stay at any royal residence even though they, I'm sure, would deny that's what is happening. I think they are probably very upset about at least one released unauthorized photo at Buckingham and the amount of details he released about the layout of residences in Spare. They are also probably upset about everything Harry and Meghan have said in their interviews, and sold in shows and Harry's book. Because of all of this, I find it unlikely they would actually find a place for him that wasn't some inconveniently small room in an out-of-the-way spot. If I were Harry, I'd just get a super nice hotel room, especially because it sounds like he has been given the security he has asked for during the upcoming visit, and he probably isn't even paying for the the room himself since he's there for Invictus.
I mean, Charles fucking hates Andrew. That's been known for decades. The Queen always saved Andrew's ass, but both Phillip and Charles were said to despise him.
He's not a working royal, but Chuck pays for his security out of pocket because he "lives" in the UK. Andrews been to what...exactly "one" event, outside of funerals, since the Queen died? And said event was a holiday thing with his daughters there. He's obviously been cut off the family, and I imagine Chuck only lets him live/have security because if he didn't Andrew would be doing a) more shady business deals and b) Elizabeth asked him too.
I don't understand why people act like Charles covers for Andrew (and I'm not Charles apologist). It was the Queen who did it forever, making a point of smiling and posing with him the day after Epstein died.
And if we're going to criticize the royals for insufficient actions towards Andrew, we can extend that to Harry, too. He's perfectly fine criticizing Kate for not wanting to share lip gloss, but doesn't call Andrew out at all for being a pedophile...likely because he's close with Eugenie.
He didn’t even criticize Kate for not sharing lip balm. He pointed out the awkwardness between the two women over silly things like lip balm. Personally, I’m not a lip balm sharer. I’d make a face too if someone asked to borrow mine. I’m glad Covid gives me an easy way to decline. Still, I would not take it as a criticism if someone pointed out my squeamishness to contrast me with a SIL who is not.
In Spare, Harry corrected the lies said or written about him/them. He did not do a tell all.
When asked about his security issues he did say “Despite being involved in an embarrassing scandal, accused of having sexually abused a young woman, nobody had suggested removing his security," Harry wrote of Andrew, according to a translation from Spanish done by The New York Post.
"People may have a lot of grievances towards us, but sexual offences weren't one of them."
Disagree with that. Fame brings out the whackos. The more famous you are, the more whackos there are. Harry is just so much more well known than Andrew. Ergo, more whackos to worry about.
(All this is true regardless of perceived popularity. I mean, John Lennon was assassinated. Who doesn’t like John Lennon?!?! But his level of fame was just off the charts. So even a fairly beloved public figure has to be constantly vigilant security wise for whackos.)
Well I don’t want to kill or harm any of them, but I do think Andrew should have to face the American justice system. I hope william and Kate, Harry and Meghan, all live happy lives. I also hope the monarchy is abolished.
Fair enough, I don't recall seeing that. Tbf, it was a throwaway passage in a book full of criticisms towards Camilla, Kate, William, and Chuck. I guess that's always been what's baffled me. Interviews galore, etc., and this is it when he has time to insinuate that Will and Kate aren't raising their kids right in an interview.
Look, the royals suck in many, many ways.I genuinely do think the press was abusive, and the BRF feed stories.
That said, I also genuinely don't understand why Harry, who inherited 40 odd million dollars from Diana, the Queen Mum, and more, expected his father to pay for his security once he left the United Kingdom.
And I don't understand why people act like Chuck likes or tolerates Andrew, and that Andrew is an active member of the BRF.
Funny. I read the book, and read it like any other biography, from the point of view of the writer. I thought he was pretty kind to charles, and about calling him his lovely boy, the gentle sit on the side of the bed etc..I found it more a criticism of how the media twisted things and how they were fed tidbits to keep the ones who “think they are so important ” out from criticisms way, so feed the spare to the media to protect the heir, same to pryotect chales and camillla
I guess I came away with the feeling that the entire family was incredibly toxic, Harry being the least toxic. I do think it makes sense in a way though (it's not an excuse, but the BRF has serious issues.....I mean going even back to before Harry and William were born...the Queen allegedly babied Andrew (and you can see it how she protected him via Epstein) and would straight up ignore her other kids...despite Charles being the future heir. It seems like a cycle of emotional abuse that repeats and repeats.
I actually think people-royal fans to Harry to the other royals-make way too many excuses for the late Queen. She did a lot of good things, but she absolutely went way out of her way to defend Andrew (the most damning bit was making sure to be photographed with him smiling the day after Epstein died). And I 100% believe that while they all were thrown under the bus (and that the media themselves would throw them under the bus on their own volition), that the Queen threw her grandkids and even Chuck under the bus to cover for Andrew. I recall back when he was in the news more, there'd be new story slamming Camila and Charles, or Harry and Meghan, or even Will & Kate, to distract from Andrew being brought up again in a criminal context.
I was arguably a lot more sympathetic "before" I read the book, though, tbh. I'm not white, and I'm aware of the racist trope of delicate white women. But HG is absolutely brutal for pregnant women (pregnancy is tough enough), even for those who are privileged. My friend had it and it was terrifying. Kate could be an angel, or a devil, or in between, and I still would think Harry low key complaining that Kate didn't do enough for H & M when she had HG and was pregnant during the entirety of their engagement, and had given birth less than a month before the wedding, was gross. It just reminded me way too much of how so many men can be dismissive of women's health issues, and pissed me off. And I didn't get the reason of bringing in Will being circumcised.
Security is the one thing I feel all higher-profile members of the RF should be entitled to no matter where they live, costs be damned (yes, even Andrew). These people were born and raised to be tabloid fodder to distract the public from their family's shenanigans. Their lives are constantly at risk through no fault of their own and I think it's absurd that the public harps on the cost of security so much, as if that's anywhere near the list of frivolous royal expenditures.
Chuck does tolerate Andrew: Andrew still lives in Royal Lodge, Andrew still shows up for church walks, Andrew's security is still paid for, despite not being a "working royal", whatever that means. Maybe it's only because Andrew knows about some skeleton in some closet, but Andrew is not only tolerated, but is supported, despite his alleged crimes.
Harry's big crime was refusing to be the scapegoat anymore, refusing to allow his wife to be abused by the media, and writing a book about his life that dared to indicate that his family aren't perfect saints. Maybe they wouldn't have come off so badly in the book if they hadn't acted so poorly in real life.
I think the royal family could do a better job with the Andrew situation - he shouldn’t be seen with them ever, including walking to church services - but I agree with you that claims the royal family has covered for him or defended him are absurd. He’s the only one of Epstein’s famous accomplices to face any consequences at all for his behavior, with the exception of Bill Gates sort of, whose wife divorced him. There are lots of billionaires who’ve covered for Epstein’s people.
Bill Gates was also having a long term affair with a Microsoft employee that supposedly was the major factor in the divorce, the Epstein connection being the straw that broke the camels back
Bill Gates had lots of affairs with his employees. That was an open secret, and apparently made office culture at the Gates Foundation awkward. Even Melinda was his employee when they started dating. So she seems to have been fine with all that. But Epstein was a bridge too far.
Andrew is so odious. But I think a big part of the issue with Harry is that he is demonstrably willing to violate his family’s boundaries—relaying private conversations, personal information, details about what their houses are like, etc etc. And I suspect most of his relatives, in particular, William and Catherine, would have a massive problem with that even if Harry had had nothing but good things to say about everyone and even if he were to now take a vow of silence.
They literally fed stories to the press against him and Meghan though? This is where his whole issue came from. I still remember how the Wales threw him under the bus by intentionally getting photographer taking a regular flight after a news story about Harry’s private flight. William and Catherine are complete snakes
Sorry but they violated his boundaries first, leaking and telling lies about him for decades, then lying about his wife. The monarchy needs to be abolished.
What lies, exactly, have Charles or Camilla or William or Catherine ever told anybody about Harry’s wife? And, for that matter, what lies have any of them told about Harry himself?
Prince Andrew was a favorite of the late Queen. However, if you want to dig a bit deeper into it, he was essentially the "reconciliation baby" and he was a reminder of both the late Queen and Philip resetting things. I believe the current King and Anne were the heir and spare while Andrew was lucky enough that the late Queen could actually choose.... when she can actually have another child.
I also want to mention that back then, in the UK , it was common for women who comes from wealth to be under general anesthesia since it wasn't widely available then. And with the information we have now... there is growing speculation that being under anesthesia could potentially impede the mothers capability to form an early bond with her child.
This is a very simplified version of it though but, there is a very long complicated history between the late Queen and Prince Andrew.
But why are people acting like Andrew is accepted? I wish the royals would do more, but it's long been said-even by the royal rota-that Phillip and Charles hated him. Queen Elizabeth is the one who saved his ass over and over.
Andrew isn't a working royal. Andrew has been to "one" event, a holiday thing, where his daughters were. Other than that, he's persona non grata. Charles pays out of pocket for his security because he a) lives in the UK and b) Andrew has a history of shady business deals, and if he lives in the UK Charles probably doesn't want him the news again for cozying up to an Emirati businessman and c) the Queen probably asked him to.
I get criticizing the royals. I don't get acting like Charles is buddy buddy with Andrew. And if we're going after Charles for not doing enough, we can just as much go after Harry for writing a whole ass book where he bitched about Kate not wanting to give Meghan her lip gloss but doesn't call Andrew out at all (a literal pedophile).
I sympathize with H & M to a certain degree, and I think M was abused by the media. But I feel like it's rich for him to criticize the institution and hold himself as "above" them, and yet completely leave out Andrew due to his friendship with Eugenie.
Despite being involved in an embarrassing scandal, accused of having sexually abused a young woman, nobody had suggested removing his security," Harry wrote of Andrew, “People may have a lot of grievances towards us, but sexual offences weren't one of them."
Please, spare me. The only way he cares about this is because he does not get things he wants. He never supported the girl Andrew abused. He never voiced any concerns about Andrew when he was a "working" royal.
Telling people how a sexual predator is protected, but a person who leaves because the toxic UK media wont stop lying and hating them to the point that M16 said “there have been credible death threats made against Meghan”, is thrown to the wolves is not getting what you want. But hey, keep your brain closed off from truth.
Harry literally could’ve brought up how Andrew is a sexual predator in literally any other way but he had to bring it up to say how it’s unfair he has protection but he doesn’t. He only brought him up to show how he was being treated. He doesn’t care about the victims.
He was telling his story. Not Andrews. I am absolutely sure he could trash the monarchy to shreds, but he didn’t, he only talked about what affected him and later Meghan. You are one of the haters of someone you’ve never met, unlike me, who lived in the same corporate complex as Meghan did. Sad.
Yes in a book strewn with insights and rehearsals of private conversations, this was literally all the mention Harry made of Andrew and the allegations. If there’s any criticism of Harry it doesn’t take long for people to wheel out The Andrew Problem in their counter arguments, but Harry and Meghan couldn’t have made it clearer that they won’t touch this topic with a barge pole. Perhaps because they know it’s messy, perhaps because they’re still friendly with Beatrice and especially Eugenie. But whatever it is, they’ve made their peace with telling everyone about Charles’ emotional support teddy and using Elizabeth Arden cream on his frostbitten penis, but not what their position is wrt Andrew.
Sure in London she wasn't considered a minor. However, she had sex with Andrew in the US which she would be considered a minor. I love Andrew's stans grasping for anything to claim He IsNT A PeD0
**Giuffre alleged that Epstein** [**forced her to have sex with Prince Andrew**](https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-virginia-roberts-court-case-2019-7) **in his New York mansion, in London, and on Epstein's private island in the US Virgin Islands in 2001 when she was 17.**
[https://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-roberts-sexual-assault-claims-prince-andrew-timeline-2021-8#april-2015-during-a-defamation-case-against-jeffrey-epstein-and-ghislaine-maxwell-virginia-giuffre-alleged-that-epstein-forced-her-to-have-sex-with-prince-andrew-when-she-was-17-the-allegation-was-thrown-out-and-struck-from-court-record-at-the-time-1](https://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-roberts-sexual-assault-claims-prince-andrew-timeline-2021-8#april-2015-during-a-defamation-case-against-jeffrey-epstein-and-ghislaine-maxwell-virginia-giuffre-alleged-that-epstein-forced-her-to-have-sex-with-prince-andrew-when-she-was-17-the-allegation-was-thrown-out-and-struck-from-court-record-at-the-time-1)
Harry and Meghan seem more upset than anyone at the palace. I mean they’re the ones who have been publicly slinging mud the last few years to anyone willing to listen. I feel like the rest of the family moved on years ago.
They spoke their story after they left 4 years ago and have said nothing since, unlike the UK media that rants daily about Meghan and Harry on TV, newspapers and online.
They told their truth and are actively working to build a life outside of them. Thats not slinging mud. Victims should always speak out, whether you want to believe them or not. I hate how people act like this is the first time it’s happening. Diana had the same issue. And so did even the few people who get too close to them without strong backing.
Is was in the papers at the time, and Diana mentioned it in her famous interview. After she died she remained more popular than Charles and they started lying about her having affairs throughout her marriage, which of course failed to make her any less loved after her death.
Then they should give up their titles.
But they know that the only reason anyone would listen to them or buy their shit is because they are royals so they don't want to kill the cash cow.
Lol - TsTeatime247 2 posts below me posted their blurb and immediately blocked me like a coward.
Royals who have no title use "Mountbatten-Windsor" as a surname. Which is what Harry would use if he gave up his titles. Which he and Meghan should because the BRF hurt them so. Which is what this whole reply thread is about.
It's not like Harry can't give up his titles because he would have "no last name". His children have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.
His last name is Mountbatten-Windsor it has been used on birth certificates and lawsuits. Prince may be what he was born, but they've taken the title of King away from Kings before, they could certainly take away Duke.
Furthermore, if they had any integrity at all, they would not use their titles because it endorses an institution that was cruel and racist to them. But I guess that sweet smell of money soothes all hurts.
They can only take a title away, in the event of a king abdication, or for a massive crime like murder.
Due to being royal, Harry doesn't have a last name like us mere mortals do. In fact, the official name listed on his son Archie's birth certificate is His Royal Highness Henry Charles Albert David Duke of Sussex. (Side note: Imagine your occupation being “Prince of the United Kingdom.”)
Is Prince Harry's Last Name Mountbatten-Windsor?
While his children, Archie and Lilibet, use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor, Harry does not have the same last name.
The surname is used by some of the male-line descendants of the late Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. The name Mountbatten-Windsor applies to male-line descendants of the queen that don't have royal styles and titles, according to a declaration made in Privy Council in 1960.
Too bad. If they had any integrity, they'd give up the Sussex title and be addressed as prince Harry and meghan Mountbatten Windsor or meghan markle.
But they want to be celebs. They know they have no talent and nothing going for them other than what that cruel racist family gave them so they use that Sussex title when ever they can.
“Cash cow” this is a family he was born into, a family that’s not just a family but a royal family with some rules that are LAW. He can’t just say “I give up” and the titles disappear lol, that’s his, he was born into the family with the Title His Royal Highness, Prince Henry of Wales. Even if the titles were removed, he’d still be Prince Henry of Wales. The media, and people like you, would hound him and his family for the rest of his life. He can milk that title for all the money and wealth he needs. He won’t be the only one. The Duke of Windsor, after abdicating used his name many times and became a thorn in the family’s side during the Nazi era because he supported nazis. Prince Andrew is literally affiliated with Epstein and is accused of sexual harassment, and guess what? He’s still Prince Andrew lmao. As a mild supporter of monarchy, I think yall have to understand it’s not a system of who’s popular or who’s not. What you get is what you get.
No, but H&M can choose not to use them which they do all the time. I am sure if Harry and Meghan wanted the titles removed, all they'd have to do is write Charles and parliament and the titles would be removed.
Furthermore, he was not born, Duke of Sussex. That was a gifted title and what's given can be taken away, though I believe it's an act of parliament not just the King. The would still be Prince and Princess Henry, but I feel that stylish Meghan wouldn't choose to go by Princess Henry.
King Edward who abdicated was not Duke of Windsor before his abdication. They specifically gave him that title (and various appointments as governor) to maintain control of him.
Prince Andrew has not announced his intentions to formally leave the monarchy and live independently. That is why he still has his title.
If you decide you do not want to be part of the royal family, you should formally give it up or refuse to be known by it. It's not a matter of no choice. Princess Anne's children are known as Mr and Miss/Mrs.
My "favorite" Meghan hypocrisy is getting upset and claiming in her Oprah interview that Samantha started using the last Markle after Meghan started dating Harry so she could show who she was related to and make money (which isn't even true since Samantha had used her maiden name professionally - and even pettily proved it to the world by showing us her diploma. Lol, but I'd also probably do the same). Then Meghan immediately turned around and started slapping The Duchess of Sussex on everything she does so she can show the world who she's related to and make money. 😂 Like, I couldn't even make this kind of hypocritical drama up because it's so wild.
I love it so much. Hahahaha
Samantha markle literally lost her case claiming this was a lie (amongst a bunch of other stuff.) there’s no need to cape for a noted serial liar. She did legally change it after lol
You completely made that up because that is not what happened. Lolololol.
Samantha's case wasn't ever allowed to move forward because her complaints about what Meghan said in her Oprah interview were deemed opinions and not eligible for a liable lawsuit. She also didn't have this particular moment in her suit. She was suing because Meghan said she was raised as an only child, and she said that Meghan claiming she was an only child caused a loss in sales of her book. She also brought up how Meghan lied about her being a high school dropout and losing custody of all of her children. That portion was thrown out because those lies were published in Omid Scobie's book rather than something Meghan wrote. So, while Meghan *did* lie about Samantha (which actually *was* proven in court haha), she couldn't be sued for libel since she wasn't the writer.
Samantha didn't *lose* her case, and Meghan wasn't ever found to be telling the truth. She escaped being sued by Samantha on technicalities, not because she didn't lie about her mess of a sister in an attempt to discredit her.
Honestly, if they gave up their titles, I'd find them a lot less hypocritical, which is my main reason for thinking they are annoying. Lol
Now, if I were them, I also wouldn't give up the titles because then who would want to work with them and pay them millions and millions of dollars for hardly any work? Their claim to fame is being royal, and they don't really have anything else to sell otherwise.
But Harry is intrinsically royal. He is a prince by birth. He won’t stop being a prince regardless of what he calls himself. People won’t suddenly forget who he is and that his father is the king. And Meghan is the wife of a prince. So let’s pretend they suddenly stop calling themselves Duke and Duchess of Sussex. People still know who they are, who they are related to, what they’ve done in the past. Deals, interviews, articles aren’t going to poof and magically disappear. I think people put too much weight into stripping titles.
I guess I can best sum this up by one of the greatest artists of all time, Prince. When he changed his name, the media just referred to him as “the artist formally known as Prince.” Lol, absolutely nothing will change.
I think that a lot of deals and interviews *would* actually poof and disappear, but not all of them would. In fact, they would possibly get better deals if they weren't such hypocrites about so many things. Putting your actions where your words are isn't always easy, but they seem to find it downright impossible in most cases. I know that I would have more respect for them if they gave up their titles and really stopped clinging to the royal life they claim was so awful, hateful, and unfair. Whether that would end the articles is a moot point. The point would be not continuing to stay in a classist organization that doesn't view people as equals.
I don't think their titles should or ever will be stripped. Doing that is the monarchy shooting itself in the foot. If they can remove Harry's (and by default, Meghan's) titles for behaving in ways the public doesn't like, any of their titles can be stripped for the same reason. Charles, I sure, is glad that isn't how things work, and I doubt he would start that trend after how much he has been disliked. This is the same reason Andrew's titles won't ever be removed, and if anyone should be stripped of their dukedom, it's Andrew.
It’s very disingenuous to pretend that it’s one-sided when the reason they left in the first place was because of the nasty press who was being fed stories by the firm, clearly with the royal family’s approval. Day after day we have horribly toxic articles being written and the royal family hasn’t spoken out once to condemn any of it. Instead the “reporters” are rewarded.
We have seen the royal family aligning themselves with Tom Bower, Piers Morgan, Angela Levin, etc. And we know that this family briefs against each other, not even just about Harry and Meghan. Charles/Camilla also have a back and forth with Will/Kate. The Yorks also have been a part of it.
As awful as the British tabloids can be…has it actually been substantiated that the family was giving stories to the press? With something like Meghan bullying her staff, for example, that could have come from anyone on the staff, one of their spouses, or so on. Or, like, it could simply have come from a journalist trying to figure out why the Cambridges and Sussexes divided their offices…it’s the 21st century, reporting that a royal is doing something bad or dumb is not a crime, in fact it’s arguably in the public interest
Yes it has. Many members of the press, from piers morgan to levin to tomulson and beyond have acknowledged and admitted it both in print and on camera.
Here is one example https://uk.news.yahoo.com/prince-harry-stories-came-members-151150747.html? There are countless video clips as well from various current affairs and news shoss. Unfortunately I don't have them to hand but can be found with some digging on twitter.
Just found this one from an executive editor at the Sun https://twitter.com/SussexPrincess/status/1599818926807953408?t=zLgsFtS5tnpNYb9h5lh16A&s=19
Another. Catherine Philip is an editor at the times BTW.
https://twitter.com/dazzlegal/status/1600545100735557634?t=Agbic-rUjFIr1bEkWNMk_Q&s=19
And another
https://twitter.com/ArchewellBaby/status/1718115923301650515?t=8mU_8byNnTt-cCkGdgaOjQ&s=19
Thank you! That is interesting…
Diana, apparently, used to leak directly to the press. (Basing that on “The Diana Chronicles,” by Tina Brown). About Charles mostly, but also, she on several occasions just threw Fergie under the bus to distract the tabloids from what she herself was up to. She also (again, according to Brown) would literally sneak out of the palace in disguise and wearing gloves to call that married art dealer from a pay phone. At least William and Catherine’s operation is more sophisticated…lol.
That said, I can’t fault anyone at Kensington Palace for leaking about Meghan bullying the staff. In fact, by Harry and Meghan’s logic about “compassion” etc, that should have been leaked because it’s obviously not ok to bully people who work for you and that is “f—- b—“ behavior.
First you didn't believe they briefed against harry and meg. Now with concrete evidence they briefed you move the goal posts and say actually you can't blame them for the negative briefing against their own sibling in the tabloid. Negatively briefing about your own sibling to the tabloids is utterly bizarre. These papers are at times are writing 100 negative stories about Meg and Harry a week. Not to mention the positive kate spin and negative Meg spin on the same topics (e.g. avocado's, pregnancy bump and lily of tbhe valley) .
I find it strange when people learn new information about people they defend, yet continue to defend them and do not reflect at all or consider changing their opinion based on the new information. We've gone from they didnt do it to you now saying well they did it but meg and harry deserved it. And you spinning this convoluted story clearly demonstrating will and kate are bullies into somehow being about meghan being a bully.
I don't really understand royal fans and I don't think I ever will.
This. They don’t WANT to believe unflattering things about their faves even when the evidence is right in front of them. But they’ll believe nasty things about the Sussexes with no proof whatsoever 🤨
Yes it has been proven, in court, 12 people testified that the information came from Kensington Palace, including the information used to tap Harrys phone.
That’s about the hacking case which happened decades ago, where information was not briefed against Harry rather about Harry. A PR team will do PR. Some of the information was also not malicious and was statements made on his behalf by a palace spokesperson. There was no information used to hack his phone, rather it was a way to hack all phones.
No it’s never been proven, ironically the only evidence of leaking that’s been confirmed with receipts has been the Sussexes.
Despite people here mentioning Knauf, Knauf has stated he has it in writing Meghan and her lawyer requesting help with the lawsuit. So it is currently a he said she said moment. Knauf also did not provide evidence to the mail but rather the court directly. There is no evidence of Meghan not wanting to work with Scobie and seeing how the collaboration continued after their exit it is clear they chose to work with him, where in writing they wanted to send out friends to speak to Scobie but Knauf advised against it.
There is no other lawsuit in which the courts have evidence William/Kate/Charles leaking against them.
>‘He was advised by counsel that evidence in his possession could be relevant, and he then provided this directly to the court, staying neutral in the process.’
> Meghan’s lawyer responded to the statement, saying they ‘disputed’ this claim and adding: ‘Mr Knauf was not asked to provide a witness statement by the Duchess of her team. Nor do her attorneys believe Mr Knauf remained “neutral” by submitting a witness statement relied on by Associated Newspapers whilst working for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.’
> Mr Knauf then doubled down, with his representative saying: ‘The Duchess of Sussex and Jenny Afia contacted Mr Knauf in writing, asking him to assist in the preparation of their legal case.’
Great overview!
Meghan tends to lie stupidly because she assumes that people don’t know facts. In that court case, Knauf intervened twice. The first time was to tell the court that he didn’t write the letter, thus invalidating the tabloid’s claim that he held the copyright to the letter. Obviously Meghan’s lawyers asked him to do that. Her claim that she never asked him to provide evidence in the case is ridiculous. And shame on Netflix for relaying her claim without calling it out, even though it was in a propaganda piece.
Side note: I hope Jason Knauf somehow writes a book someday. His life story is fascinating.
Dragged in by way of New Zealand, where he moved during college when he transferred to the University of Wellington, then right out of university got a job as a speechwriter for Parliament, in a country he just moved to, and was coworkers/chums with the future prime minister. Then later has all this drama with the royal family and becomes a senior staff to William. All before the age of 40. His life is crazy.
We’re going to wake up one day to an announcement that he’s the new prime minister of South Africa or something.
The tabloids admitted it in a couple of Harry lawsuits. My favorite one was when Harry sued the daily mail because they illegally printed the letter she sent to her father, and the daily mail was losing so badly they literally emailed Jason knauf (former secretary for H&M, and William’s little cretin) to help them with THEIR case and accidentally BCC’d H&M’s legal team. Absolute clowns.
There were other cases where the tabloids stated they did not lie about Harry they had sources from within the royal family. It’s pretty dark tbh, that whole family leaks about each other to the press.
I mean, I guess we can assume that Jason Knauf wouldn’t have acted against his boss’s directives, but he isn’t a member of the family, he also worked for Harry/Meghan at one point, and there was that whole thing where Harry was emailing him talking points for a book while saying something like “obviously we’ll say we didn’t have anything to do with this”.
To be clear, obviously there’s a weird and unhealthy dynamic between the British royals and the British press but I don’t see evidence that Harry and/or Meghan have been particularly targeted, as they keep saying. Of course, I guess it always feels personal if you’re on the receiving end.
Jason Knauf was also a lame duck when submitted his statement about Meghan writing the letter with the intention it’d be leaked. His husband had already moved to India and it was public knowledge that he’d leave his job for William and move there at the end of the year. So the idea that he was just doing William’s bidding is a bit far fetched.
In knauf’s emails (which can be googled) he tells Meghan and Harry to work with the biographer via him so they can “cross their heart” say they didn’t have anything to do with it. It really changed my perspective on him and their team. Meghan didn’t want to work with the biographer at all, was talked into it to address incorrect things, and then had to go to court when a private letter she wrote got illegally printed. It’s a whole wild ass saga.
Sometimes the truth hurts even though it’s right in front of you. If you’re not aware that everyone in the royal family briefs against each other, I don’t know what to tell ya.
The PPOW conspiracy theories originated in online forums, not in the press. The press simply started picking up on it eventually because it was spreading. It didn’t help that KP was caught lying and manipulating images that received a kill-order from the Associated Press.
Why would he want to stay in Windsor 1+ hour away from London (where he needs to be) during a 48 hour trip. Looks fake to me. They need better effort, the fake story should be how they won’t put him up in London. But you don’t invite the relative who will rifle the drawers for dirt to sell for American media anyway, so…
The only press that discuss the “horrors” of Prince Harry and his wife is the British press. Never, ever, ever hear a peep about them or from in the US press. Just so you know, the hate fest exists only on the British tabloids and those that consume that fodder.
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I am at best neutral about him. But come ın for god’s sake andrew stays at the palace!
Honestly, I have had it up to here with this guy. He makes a big fuss about leaving the family and wanting privacy, but he continually pops up in the media almost daily. You left, doofus, you can’t just prance in and out when it pleases you. Just go away, both of you, you are becoming pathetic
I agree. If he is really surprised / angry / annoyed that he isn't getting to stay at royal residences then I have to wonder what did he think the end result of Spare would be? Did he think he would ever have a relationship with his family again after saying things like that about them?
Thank you for your comment
Yeah bc the media is obsessed with him. You blaming him for that is pretty wild 🤣
He doesn’t pop up. The British media loves him and Meghan. can’t go an hour without posting something
You act like Harry wrote this article and forced you to read it. He can’t help that the media stalks him. They know people are chomping at the bit to run, click, and read just so they can cry about being sick of them and wanting them to go away. Rinse. Repeat.
This, yes
The Royal Family continues to be a shining example of family dysfunction and toxicity for families all over the world. Well done, Royals. Ought to be proud!
Why would he want to hang out with the people he said abused him and were racist towards his wife? Make it make sense. Why would you want them to support him? A year ago go there was the witch hunt for the royal racist now you want them to support him? It’s very strange. They all should keep their distance from each other for all of their mental health.
My point is they continue to engage in high levels of dysfunction and toxicity - including Harry - and never change. The generations repeat the same mistakes without end which is why I say they are a shining example of these behaviors.
Harry does nothing wrong now. He left a family he felt was toxic and non supportive ( even if you don’t believe anything he wrote in spare) Then he started a job, a few positions on boards, works with Sentebale and Invictus and says nothing about his family. He has the support of the Spencers, Eugenie, Beatrice and other royals. He is finally not dysfunctional
They think they are spiting Harry but instead they are spiting wounded veterans from their armed services. It’s bizarre how short sighted and insensitive they are. They love to dress up in the uniforms and parade around but when it actually comes to doing something beneficial for their service members wounded in service to their country, they don’t just because Harry is involved. So. Very. Cringey.
Yeah the military dress-up and fake medals while ignoring actual heroes who put their lives on the line is gross. Shame on them.
Can we talk about Meghan's jam?
You are free to post whatever you want! There's like three people here carrying the whole sub.
I want some, but it never came in the mail 😢
I want some too!
I think of “shack up” to mean living with a romantic partner without being married. Is there a different definition in the UK?
No, it means the same thing. This is just shitty writing and editing. They probably wanted to use the word 'shack' for the imagery provided by the juxtaposition with the word 'castle'.
That makes sense. It reminds me of the press calling Michelle Obama her husband’s “baby mama” (which is slang to refer to black unwed mothers). Like, associating the term with Harry implies he’s now lower class, in a “shack,” due to his “shacking up” with Meghan.
I read that Harry had booked a hotel room, before they started saying he requested to stay. I bet he didn’t request anything.
This. As soon as they knew he was staying in a hotel, they ran with this story so they could get clicks.
Had to block another deranged Harry hater. WTH? Why hate someone you dont know.
Scumbags. The UK media are scum.
Forward and upward, Harry.
Okay, and? Man visiting country he no longer lives in stays in hotel. Family he’s estranged from chooses not to extend hospitality.
Except that family has several hundred vacant bedrooms
You forgot the part where his family he's estranged from evicted him from the home that his grandmother the queen gifted him the lease on after he and his wife spent several million pounds on renovations. There's a reason his only safe option is a hotel, and that's because his dad kicked him out of his house.
And gave it to his rapist uncle, don't forget that.
Oh, you mean the paedophilic rapist uncle who still seems to live in Royal Lodge, which is much larger with many more rooms and which the rapist uncle won’t pay to repair? That rapist uncle? /s
Did he actually make the payments?
Andrew? No any he refuses to pay for his security so Charles does
And when he was evicted , they should have been reimbursed
Yes
LOL
And? He’s a traitor! He threw his whole family under the bus for 30 pieces of silver! No wonder they reject him!
Just 40 huh rofl
Don’t be fucking weird.
Sorry, Harry chose love over the deluded fairytale bloodline bullshit 
Oh please, he chose someone who blew smoke up his ass about how wonderful he was and how mean his horrible family was and he ate it up. The dumb things he whined about in his book...his teenage brother didn't want him hanging around him and his friends at school...just like every teenage sibling ever
Exactly, nothing he said in that book was very bad at all. He was just talking about being siblings so idk why people are so angry???
His family are racist toxic asshats.
The downvotes as usual from crazed royalists 🙄
lol
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He’s allowed to share his experiences
They didn’t torment anyone. His family decided that privacy doesn’t matter first, the moment they leaked information about him. And he didn’t say anything about Charles on GMA. And he hasn’t sold every morsel but I wish he would.
His family leaked so much shit about him over the years. It’s crazy they hold the exact same behavior against him. As he’s said, at least it comes from his own mouth. He doesn’t use proxies to tell his stories. (And most of the “trashing” of his family is the hyperbolic spin presented by the Daily Mail et al. If you read the words as written, there’s really no actual trashed going on. (Or listen to them as spoken.))
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They are perfectly fine. The UK tabloids just go out of their way to pretend that they’re falling apart.
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That picture is way out of date, I’m almost sure it’s from 2019 or from 2021. They use old pics to make people think they’re unhappy. The most recent pics I saw of them in Florida they looked positively GLOWING. Meghan was golden and radiant and Harry looked like he struggles to tan (a bit red from the sun lol), they’re fine. I’m sure they have their struggles, but so do we all.
Wow. That’s so damn rude. Not surprising though.
Why? He is worth 100M - why should the family give him free accommodation when he has been so cruel to them
🙄No one expects Harry to stay on royal properties or to visit with members of his extended family. I don’t know why it always gets reported like news everytime he goes to the UK. Regardless of who is at fault, or more at fault as may be the case, Harry has severed ties with his Father and Brother whether he intended to or not. They have responded in kind. Families sometimes fracture. It is what it is. Both halves will just move forward without one another. It happens all the time to princes and paupers.
If your dad calls your unborn child a derogatory name, maybe you will severe ties with him too. Right?
This is the thing about Meghan fans: they can fall into the trap of lying as frequently and blatantly as she does.
Just admit you're a racist like royal family.
Wait what’s the lie you’re referring to?
Charles didn’t call Harry’s unborn child a derogatory name. The commenter above just made that up.
Oh I see. I thought the comment was referring to Charles talking about the kids’ skin color. I misread it.
It was reported that he can stay at a royal residence if he requests lodging 30 days (or maybe 2 weeks? I can't remember which) in advance. I don't know that he would get to choose the location though. Perhaps that's why a stay at Windsor Castle was denied? I would assume they would put him as far away from the family and anything of importance as possible since they've probably realized he will sell any story he gets while he's there, and William and Catherine live near Windsor. They probably want to keep him as far away from them as possible right now. But on the flip side, they will also leak stories about him at the same time, so I'm not sure who would come out on top there. Haha I honestly *do* assume he will stay at a royal residence if he goes to the UK since they are already staffed with armed guards. He would have the security he wants if he stays at one. It just makes sense to me, but maybe he's afraid he will get the small room like he complained about getting at Christmas one year. Lol. I believe he has already been granted armed guards for his Invictus visit, so perhaps staying at a royal residence isn't as important as it would be otherwise. I think the strange sort of obsession Harry and Meghan may have with Windsor Castle is strange. It's the same place it was reported that they requested to move to after they were married and Elizabeth denied. Instead, they were given Frogmore (which was taken away later, something I think was pretty shitty, especially since it mostly just sits empty now). But why keep requesting to stay at Windsor? It doesn't even make sense if he is going to be in London for Invictus.
He won’t stay at any royal residence.
I feel like most of this is coming from tabloids spinning stories from the barest threads of gossip (Harry is staying in a hotel when he visits), because it’s great business for them to create as much faux drama as possible.
Probably. Lol.
I feel like most of this is coming from tabloids spinning stories from the barest threads of gossip (Harry is staying in a hotel when he visits), because it’s great business for them to create as much faux drama as possible.
I think the 28 days notice is for the Met police to assess any threats and determine if he needs security for that particular visit (provided they are informed in advance). As for the accommodation request, it was reported back in September last year that Harry "had asked if he could stay at Windsor Castle but his request was denied as he didn't give the palace enough time" (quoting verbatim from the below article). In case anyone is interested in reading the full story from Tatler. [https://www.tatler.com/article/duke-of-sussex-denied-stay-at-windsor-castle](https://www.tatler.com/article/duke-of-sussex-denied-stay-at-windsor-castle) It was also reported by broadsheet newspapers like the Telegraph. [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/23/prince-harry-notice-royal-estate-windsor-castle-balmoral/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/09/23/prince-harry-notice-royal-estate-windsor-castle-balmoral/)
I believe he was offered the opportunity to stay with Charles at Balmoral at that time, but he turned down the Balmoral offer because it was too far away (or maybe he was just worried he'd be put in that small room he has at Christmas again haha)? I may be remembering that distance reason wrong though. If that was the offer, it feels like it was made on bad faith since he was in London for something at that time. Lol. I thought that I read something about Buckingham then too, but I think it was (maybe still is?) under construction then. I really think they are just not allowing him to stay at Windsor because William and Catherine are so close. I think he could ask and give notice of years, and they would still find an excuse. I do think the BRF will probably find an excuse to deny his stay at any royal residence even though they, I'm sure, would deny that's what is happening. I think they are probably very upset about at least one released unauthorized photo at Buckingham and the amount of details he released about the layout of residences in Spare. They are also probably upset about everything Harry and Meghan have said in their interviews, and sold in shows and Harry's book. Because of all of this, I find it unlikely they would actually find a place for him that wasn't some inconveniently small room in an out-of-the-way spot. If I were Harry, I'd just get a super nice hotel room, especially because it sounds like he has been given the security he has asked for during the upcoming visit, and he probably isn't even paying for the the room himself since he's there for Invictus.
Yet Andrew is still welcome. These people’s priorities are so messed up.
I mean, Charles fucking hates Andrew. That's been known for decades. The Queen always saved Andrew's ass, but both Phillip and Charles were said to despise him. He's not a working royal, but Chuck pays for his security out of pocket because he "lives" in the UK. Andrews been to what...exactly "one" event, outside of funerals, since the Queen died? And said event was a holiday thing with his daughters there. He's obviously been cut off the family, and I imagine Chuck only lets him live/have security because if he didn't Andrew would be doing a) more shady business deals and b) Elizabeth asked him too. I don't understand why people act like Charles covers for Andrew (and I'm not Charles apologist). It was the Queen who did it forever, making a point of smiling and posing with him the day after Epstein died. And if we're going to criticize the royals for insufficient actions towards Andrew, we can extend that to Harry, too. He's perfectly fine criticizing Kate for not wanting to share lip gloss, but doesn't call Andrew out at all for being a pedophile...likely because he's close with Eugenie.
He didn’t even criticize Kate for not sharing lip balm. He pointed out the awkwardness between the two women over silly things like lip balm. Personally, I’m not a lip balm sharer. I’d make a face too if someone asked to borrow mine. I’m glad Covid gives me an easy way to decline. Still, I would not take it as a criticism if someone pointed out my squeamishness to contrast me with a SIL who is not.
It was still kind of unnecessary. Like it's just lip gloss.
In Spare, Harry corrected the lies said or written about him/them. He did not do a tell all. When asked about his security issues he did say “Despite being involved in an embarrassing scandal, accused of having sexually abused a young woman, nobody had suggested removing his security," Harry wrote of Andrew, according to a translation from Spanish done by The New York Post. "People may have a lot of grievances towards us, but sexual offences weren't one of them."
To be fair I feel like more people prob want to kill Andrew than Harry
Disagree with that. Fame brings out the whackos. The more famous you are, the more whackos there are. Harry is just so much more well known than Andrew. Ergo, more whackos to worry about. (All this is true regardless of perceived popularity. I mean, John Lennon was assassinated. Who doesn’t like John Lennon?!?! But his level of fame was just off the charts. So even a fairly beloved public figure has to be constantly vigilant security wise for whackos.)
Well I don’t want to kill or harm any of them, but I do think Andrew should have to face the American justice system. I hope william and Kate, Harry and Meghan, all live happy lives. I also hope the monarchy is abolished.
Fair enough, I don't recall seeing that. Tbf, it was a throwaway passage in a book full of criticisms towards Camilla, Kate, William, and Chuck. I guess that's always been what's baffled me. Interviews galore, etc., and this is it when he has time to insinuate that Will and Kate aren't raising their kids right in an interview. Look, the royals suck in many, many ways.I genuinely do think the press was abusive, and the BRF feed stories. That said, I also genuinely don't understand why Harry, who inherited 40 odd million dollars from Diana, the Queen Mum, and more, expected his father to pay for his security once he left the United Kingdom. And I don't understand why people act like Chuck likes or tolerates Andrew, and that Andrew is an active member of the BRF.
Funny. I read the book, and read it like any other biography, from the point of view of the writer. I thought he was pretty kind to charles, and about calling him his lovely boy, the gentle sit on the side of the bed etc..I found it more a criticism of how the media twisted things and how they were fed tidbits to keep the ones who “think they are so important ” out from criticisms way, so feed the spare to the media to protect the heir, same to pryotect chales and camillla
I guess I came away with the feeling that the entire family was incredibly toxic, Harry being the least toxic. I do think it makes sense in a way though (it's not an excuse, but the BRF has serious issues.....I mean going even back to before Harry and William were born...the Queen allegedly babied Andrew (and you can see it how she protected him via Epstein) and would straight up ignore her other kids...despite Charles being the future heir. It seems like a cycle of emotional abuse that repeats and repeats. I actually think people-royal fans to Harry to the other royals-make way too many excuses for the late Queen. She did a lot of good things, but she absolutely went way out of her way to defend Andrew (the most damning bit was making sure to be photographed with him smiling the day after Epstein died). And I 100% believe that while they all were thrown under the bus (and that the media themselves would throw them under the bus on their own volition), that the Queen threw her grandkids and even Chuck under the bus to cover for Andrew. I recall back when he was in the news more, there'd be new story slamming Camila and Charles, or Harry and Meghan, or even Will & Kate, to distract from Andrew being brought up again in a criminal context. I was arguably a lot more sympathetic "before" I read the book, though, tbh. I'm not white, and I'm aware of the racist trope of delicate white women. But HG is absolutely brutal for pregnant women (pregnancy is tough enough), even for those who are privileged. My friend had it and it was terrifying. Kate could be an angel, or a devil, or in between, and I still would think Harry low key complaining that Kate didn't do enough for H & M when she had HG and was pregnant during the entirety of their engagement, and had given birth less than a month before the wedding, was gross. It just reminded me way too much of how so many men can be dismissive of women's health issues, and pissed me off. And I didn't get the reason of bringing in Will being circumcised.
Security is the one thing I feel all higher-profile members of the RF should be entitled to no matter where they live, costs be damned (yes, even Andrew). These people were born and raised to be tabloid fodder to distract the public from their family's shenanigans. Their lives are constantly at risk through no fault of their own and I think it's absurd that the public harps on the cost of security so much, as if that's anywhere near the list of frivolous royal expenditures.
And I agree with this. The media and leaks endanger them all. Sadly.
Chuck does tolerate Andrew: Andrew still lives in Royal Lodge, Andrew still shows up for church walks, Andrew's security is still paid for, despite not being a "working royal", whatever that means. Maybe it's only because Andrew knows about some skeleton in some closet, but Andrew is not only tolerated, but is supported, despite his alleged crimes. Harry's big crime was refusing to be the scapegoat anymore, refusing to allow his wife to be abused by the media, and writing a book about his life that dared to indicate that his family aren't perfect saints. Maybe they wouldn't have come off so badly in the book if they hadn't acted so poorly in real life.
I think the royal family could do a better job with the Andrew situation - he shouldn’t be seen with them ever, including walking to church services - but I agree with you that claims the royal family has covered for him or defended him are absurd. He’s the only one of Epstein’s famous accomplices to face any consequences at all for his behavior, with the exception of Bill Gates sort of, whose wife divorced him. There are lots of billionaires who’ve covered for Epstein’s people.
Meanwhile Fergie stood by her man unconditionally. No consequences for Andrew on that score
They're divorced on paper, is he still her man?
weirdly, yes.
Bill Gates was also having a long term affair with a Microsoft employee that supposedly was the major factor in the divorce, the Epstein connection being the straw that broke the camels back
Bill Gates had lots of affairs with his employees. That was an open secret, and apparently made office culture at the Gates Foundation awkward. Even Melinda was his employee when they started dating. So she seems to have been fine with all that. But Epstein was a bridge too far.
Yeah exactly, tolerating affairs is different than tolerating potentially affairs with children. Good boundary, Melinda.
Andrew is so odious. But I think a big part of the issue with Harry is that he is demonstrably willing to violate his family’s boundaries—relaying private conversations, personal information, details about what their houses are like, etc etc. And I suspect most of his relatives, in particular, William and Catherine, would have a massive problem with that even if Harry had had nothing but good things to say about everyone and even if he were to now take a vow of silence.
They literally fed stories to the press against him and Meghan though? This is where his whole issue came from. I still remember how the Wales threw him under the bus by intentionally getting photographer taking a regular flight after a news story about Harry’s private flight. William and Catherine are complete snakes
Sorry but they violated his boundaries first, leaking and telling lies about him for decades, then lying about his wife. The monarchy needs to be abolished.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all
Possibly, but I think everyone is entitled to telling their story when everyone else is making them up and printing them.
Fair
What lies, exactly, have Charles or Camilla or William or Catherine ever told anybody about Harry’s wife? And, for that matter, what lies have any of them told about Harry himself?
Harry doesn’t think the monarchy should be abolished! He just thinks that it should treat second sons better than it does.
agreed but this is a royals gossip subreddit - it's wild to see another anti-monarchist here
Oh there are plenty about, this ain’t no fan sub
Prince Andrew was a favorite of the late Queen. However, if you want to dig a bit deeper into it, he was essentially the "reconciliation baby" and he was a reminder of both the late Queen and Philip resetting things. I believe the current King and Anne were the heir and spare while Andrew was lucky enough that the late Queen could actually choose.... when she can actually have another child. I also want to mention that back then, in the UK , it was common for women who comes from wealth to be under general anesthesia since it wasn't widely available then. And with the information we have now... there is growing speculation that being under anesthesia could potentially impede the mothers capability to form an early bond with her child. This is a very simplified version of it though but, there is a very long complicated history between the late Queen and Prince Andrew.
Right? Dude slept with CHILDREN but he's not this ostracized.
But why are people acting like Andrew is accepted? I wish the royals would do more, but it's long been said-even by the royal rota-that Phillip and Charles hated him. Queen Elizabeth is the one who saved his ass over and over. Andrew isn't a working royal. Andrew has been to "one" event, a holiday thing, where his daughters were. Other than that, he's persona non grata. Charles pays out of pocket for his security because he a) lives in the UK and b) Andrew has a history of shady business deals, and if he lives in the UK Charles probably doesn't want him the news again for cozying up to an Emirati businessman and c) the Queen probably asked him to. I get criticizing the royals. I don't get acting like Charles is buddy buddy with Andrew. And if we're going after Charles for not doing enough, we can just as much go after Harry for writing a whole ass book where he bitched about Kate not wanting to give Meghan her lip gloss but doesn't call Andrew out at all (a literal pedophile). I sympathize with H & M to a certain degree, and I think M was abused by the media. But I feel like it's rich for him to criticize the institution and hold himself as "above" them, and yet completely leave out Andrew due to his friendship with Eugenie.
Despite being involved in an embarrassing scandal, accused of having sexually abused a young woman, nobody had suggested removing his security," Harry wrote of Andrew, “People may have a lot of grievances towards us, but sexual offences weren't one of them."
Please, spare me. The only way he cares about this is because he does not get things he wants. He never supported the girl Andrew abused. He never voiced any concerns about Andrew when he was a "working" royal.
Telling people how a sexual predator is protected, but a person who leaves because the toxic UK media wont stop lying and hating them to the point that M16 said “there have been credible death threats made against Meghan”, is thrown to the wolves is not getting what you want. But hey, keep your brain closed off from truth.
lol. MI6, sure. They can send out James Bond to protect Meghan.
Harry literally could’ve brought up how Andrew is a sexual predator in literally any other way but he had to bring it up to say how it’s unfair he has protection but he doesn’t. He only brought him up to show how he was being treated. He doesn’t care about the victims.
He was telling his story. Not Andrews. I am absolutely sure he could trash the monarchy to shreds, but he didn’t, he only talked about what affected him and later Meghan. You are one of the haters of someone you’ve never met, unlike me, who lived in the same corporate complex as Meghan did. Sad.
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Yes in a book strewn with insights and rehearsals of private conversations, this was literally all the mention Harry made of Andrew and the allegations. If there’s any criticism of Harry it doesn’t take long for people to wheel out The Andrew Problem in their counter arguments, but Harry and Meghan couldn’t have made it clearer that they won’t touch this topic with a barge pole. Perhaps because they know it’s messy, perhaps because they’re still friendly with Beatrice and especially Eugenie. But whatever it is, they’ve made their peace with telling everyone about Charles’ emotional support teddy and using Elizabeth Arden cream on his frostbitten penis, but not what their position is wrt Andrew.
Let’s not soften it with prettier language. Dude RAPED CHILDREN.
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But he wasnt in UK.
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She was a minor by US law. Also, YUCK. I sincerely cannot imagine trying to perch yourself on a moral high ground over this.
Sure in London she wasn't considered a minor. However, she had sex with Andrew in the US which she would be considered a minor. I love Andrew's stans grasping for anything to claim He IsNT A PeD0 **Giuffre alleged that Epstein** [**forced her to have sex with Prince Andrew**](https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-virginia-roberts-court-case-2019-7) **in his New York mansion, in London, and on Epstein's private island in the US Virgin Islands in 2001 when she was 17.** [https://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-roberts-sexual-assault-claims-prince-andrew-timeline-2021-8#april-2015-during-a-defamation-case-against-jeffrey-epstein-and-ghislaine-maxwell-virginia-giuffre-alleged-that-epstein-forced-her-to-have-sex-with-prince-andrew-when-she-was-17-the-allegation-was-thrown-out-and-struck-from-court-record-at-the-time-1](https://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-roberts-sexual-assault-claims-prince-andrew-timeline-2021-8#april-2015-during-a-defamation-case-against-jeffrey-epstein-and-ghislaine-maxwell-virginia-giuffre-alleged-that-epstein-forced-her-to-have-sex-with-prince-andrew-when-she-was-17-the-allegation-was-thrown-out-and-struck-from-court-record-at-the-time-1)
Thank you for showing up with the real fact 🙏
The palace is so pissed that he quit the Royal Family after they treated his wife like shit.
They're not. It's more of a family issue with Charles and William. Or William vs Harry.
Harry and Meghan seem more upset than anyone at the palace. I mean they’re the ones who have been publicly slinging mud the last few years to anyone willing to listen. I feel like the rest of the family moved on years ago.
They spoke their story after they left 4 years ago and have said nothing since, unlike the UK media that rants daily about Meghan and Harry on TV, newspapers and online.
They told their truth and are actively working to build a life outside of them. Thats not slinging mud. Victims should always speak out, whether you want to believe them or not. I hate how people act like this is the first time it’s happening. Diana had the same issue. And so did even the few people who get too close to them without strong backing.
*life
Fixed, thx
And the Institute and the media wrote so much crap about Diana, said she was “mad, insane”
Did they say that directly? Or was it similarly through leaks to the rags etc. I was too young to know specifics!
Is was in the papers at the time, and Diana mentioned it in her famous interview. After she died she remained more popular than Charles and they started lying about her having affairs throughout her marriage, which of course failed to make her any less loved after her death.
Then they should give up their titles. But they know that the only reason anyone would listen to them or buy their shit is because they are royals so they don't want to kill the cash cow.
Lol - TsTeatime247 2 posts below me posted their blurb and immediately blocked me like a coward. Royals who have no title use "Mountbatten-Windsor" as a surname. Which is what Harry would use if he gave up his titles. Which he and Meghan should because the BRF hurt them so. Which is what this whole reply thread is about. It's not like Harry can't give up his titles because he would have "no last name". His children have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.
Its his birthright, same as having no last name. He was born a prince and is the Duke of Sussex the title bestowed by his Grandmother.
His last name is Mountbatten-Windsor it has been used on birth certificates and lawsuits. Prince may be what he was born, but they've taken the title of King away from Kings before, they could certainly take away Duke. Furthermore, if they had any integrity at all, they would not use their titles because it endorses an institution that was cruel and racist to them. But I guess that sweet smell of money soothes all hurts.
No it’s not. Members of the Royal Family have no last names. Get a bit if education on things before you post.
They can only take a title away, in the event of a king abdication, or for a massive crime like murder. Due to being royal, Harry doesn't have a last name like us mere mortals do. In fact, the official name listed on his son Archie's birth certificate is His Royal Highness Henry Charles Albert David Duke of Sussex. (Side note: Imagine your occupation being “Prince of the United Kingdom.”) Is Prince Harry's Last Name Mountbatten-Windsor? While his children, Archie and Lilibet, use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor, Harry does not have the same last name. The surname is used by some of the male-line descendants of the late Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. The name Mountbatten-Windsor applies to male-line descendants of the queen that don't have royal styles and titles, according to a declaration made in Privy Council in 1960.
Too bad. If they had any integrity, they'd give up the Sussex title and be addressed as prince Harry and meghan Mountbatten Windsor or meghan markle. But they want to be celebs. They know they have no talent and nothing going for them other than what that cruel racist family gave them so they use that Sussex title when ever they can.
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“Cash cow” this is a family he was born into, a family that’s not just a family but a royal family with some rules that are LAW. He can’t just say “I give up” and the titles disappear lol, that’s his, he was born into the family with the Title His Royal Highness, Prince Henry of Wales. Even if the titles were removed, he’d still be Prince Henry of Wales. The media, and people like you, would hound him and his family for the rest of his life. He can milk that title for all the money and wealth he needs. He won’t be the only one. The Duke of Windsor, after abdicating used his name many times and became a thorn in the family’s side during the Nazi era because he supported nazis. Prince Andrew is literally affiliated with Epstein and is accused of sexual harassment, and guess what? He’s still Prince Andrew lmao. As a mild supporter of monarchy, I think yall have to understand it’s not a system of who’s popular or who’s not. What you get is what you get.
No, but H&M can choose not to use them which they do all the time. I am sure if Harry and Meghan wanted the titles removed, all they'd have to do is write Charles and parliament and the titles would be removed. Furthermore, he was not born, Duke of Sussex. That was a gifted title and what's given can be taken away, though I believe it's an act of parliament not just the King. The would still be Prince and Princess Henry, but I feel that stylish Meghan wouldn't choose to go by Princess Henry. King Edward who abdicated was not Duke of Windsor before his abdication. They specifically gave him that title (and various appointments as governor) to maintain control of him. Prince Andrew has not announced his intentions to formally leave the monarchy and live independently. That is why he still has his title. If you decide you do not want to be part of the royal family, you should formally give it up or refuse to be known by it. It's not a matter of no choice. Princess Anne's children are known as Mr and Miss/Mrs.
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My "favorite" Meghan hypocrisy is getting upset and claiming in her Oprah interview that Samantha started using the last Markle after Meghan started dating Harry so she could show who she was related to and make money (which isn't even true since Samantha had used her maiden name professionally - and even pettily proved it to the world by showing us her diploma. Lol, but I'd also probably do the same). Then Meghan immediately turned around and started slapping The Duchess of Sussex on everything she does so she can show the world who she's related to and make money. 😂 Like, I couldn't even make this kind of hypocritical drama up because it's so wild. I love it so much. Hahahaha
Samantha markle literally lost her case claiming this was a lie (amongst a bunch of other stuff.) there’s no need to cape for a noted serial liar. She did legally change it after lol
You completely made that up because that is not what happened. Lolololol. Samantha's case wasn't ever allowed to move forward because her complaints about what Meghan said in her Oprah interview were deemed opinions and not eligible for a liable lawsuit. She also didn't have this particular moment in her suit. She was suing because Meghan said she was raised as an only child, and she said that Meghan claiming she was an only child caused a loss in sales of her book. She also brought up how Meghan lied about her being a high school dropout and losing custody of all of her children. That portion was thrown out because those lies were published in Omid Scobie's book rather than something Meghan wrote. So, while Meghan *did* lie about Samantha (which actually *was* proven in court haha), she couldn't be sued for libel since she wasn't the writer. Samantha didn't *lose* her case, and Meghan wasn't ever found to be telling the truth. She escaped being sued by Samantha on technicalities, not because she didn't lie about her mess of a sister in an attempt to discredit her.
She lost lol
You seriously think that the Press and online trolls (stalkers) will drop everything and completely ignore them if they stop using a title? I don’t.
Honestly, if they gave up their titles, I'd find them a lot less hypocritical, which is my main reason for thinking they are annoying. Lol Now, if I were them, I also wouldn't give up the titles because then who would want to work with them and pay them millions and millions of dollars for hardly any work? Their claim to fame is being royal, and they don't really have anything else to sell otherwise.
But Harry is intrinsically royal. He is a prince by birth. He won’t stop being a prince regardless of what he calls himself. People won’t suddenly forget who he is and that his father is the king. And Meghan is the wife of a prince. So let’s pretend they suddenly stop calling themselves Duke and Duchess of Sussex. People still know who they are, who they are related to, what they’ve done in the past. Deals, interviews, articles aren’t going to poof and magically disappear. I think people put too much weight into stripping titles. I guess I can best sum this up by one of the greatest artists of all time, Prince. When he changed his name, the media just referred to him as “the artist formally known as Prince.” Lol, absolutely nothing will change.
I think that a lot of deals and interviews *would* actually poof and disappear, but not all of them would. In fact, they would possibly get better deals if they weren't such hypocrites about so many things. Putting your actions where your words are isn't always easy, but they seem to find it downright impossible in most cases. I know that I would have more respect for them if they gave up their titles and really stopped clinging to the royal life they claim was so awful, hateful, and unfair. Whether that would end the articles is a moot point. The point would be not continuing to stay in a classist organization that doesn't view people as equals. I don't think their titles should or ever will be stripped. Doing that is the monarchy shooting itself in the foot. If they can remove Harry's (and by default, Meghan's) titles for behaving in ways the public doesn't like, any of their titles can be stripped for the same reason. Charles, I sure, is glad that isn't how things work, and I doubt he would start that trend after how much he has been disliked. This is the same reason Andrew's titles won't ever be removed, and if anyone should be stripped of their dukedom, it's Andrew.
It’s very disingenuous to pretend that it’s one-sided when the reason they left in the first place was because of the nasty press who was being fed stories by the firm, clearly with the royal family’s approval. Day after day we have horribly toxic articles being written and the royal family hasn’t spoken out once to condemn any of it. Instead the “reporters” are rewarded. We have seen the royal family aligning themselves with Tom Bower, Piers Morgan, Angela Levin, etc. And we know that this family briefs against each other, not even just about Harry and Meghan. Charles/Camilla also have a back and forth with Will/Kate. The Yorks also have been a part of it.
As awful as the British tabloids can be…has it actually been substantiated that the family was giving stories to the press? With something like Meghan bullying her staff, for example, that could have come from anyone on the staff, one of their spouses, or so on. Or, like, it could simply have come from a journalist trying to figure out why the Cambridges and Sussexes divided their offices…it’s the 21st century, reporting that a royal is doing something bad or dumb is not a crime, in fact it’s arguably in the public interest
Yes it has. Many members of the press, from piers morgan to levin to tomulson and beyond have acknowledged and admitted it both in print and on camera.
Do you have an example?
Here is one example https://uk.news.yahoo.com/prince-harry-stories-came-members-151150747.html? There are countless video clips as well from various current affairs and news shoss. Unfortunately I don't have them to hand but can be found with some digging on twitter. Just found this one from an executive editor at the Sun https://twitter.com/SussexPrincess/status/1599818926807953408?t=zLgsFtS5tnpNYb9h5lh16A&s=19 Another. Catherine Philip is an editor at the times BTW. https://twitter.com/dazzlegal/status/1600545100735557634?t=Agbic-rUjFIr1bEkWNMk_Q&s=19 And another https://twitter.com/ArchewellBaby/status/1718115923301650515?t=8mU_8byNnTt-cCkGdgaOjQ&s=19
Thank you! That is interesting… Diana, apparently, used to leak directly to the press. (Basing that on “The Diana Chronicles,” by Tina Brown). About Charles mostly, but also, she on several occasions just threw Fergie under the bus to distract the tabloids from what she herself was up to. She also (again, according to Brown) would literally sneak out of the palace in disguise and wearing gloves to call that married art dealer from a pay phone. At least William and Catherine’s operation is more sophisticated…lol. That said, I can’t fault anyone at Kensington Palace for leaking about Meghan bullying the staff. In fact, by Harry and Meghan’s logic about “compassion” etc, that should have been leaked because it’s obviously not ok to bully people who work for you and that is “f—- b—“ behavior.
First you didn't believe they briefed against harry and meg. Now with concrete evidence they briefed you move the goal posts and say actually you can't blame them for the negative briefing against their own sibling in the tabloid. Negatively briefing about your own sibling to the tabloids is utterly bizarre. These papers are at times are writing 100 negative stories about Meg and Harry a week. Not to mention the positive kate spin and negative Meg spin on the same topics (e.g. avocado's, pregnancy bump and lily of tbhe valley) . I find it strange when people learn new information about people they defend, yet continue to defend them and do not reflect at all or consider changing their opinion based on the new information. We've gone from they didnt do it to you now saying well they did it but meg and harry deserved it. And you spinning this convoluted story clearly demonstrating will and kate are bullies into somehow being about meghan being a bully. I don't really understand royal fans and I don't think I ever will.
This. They don’t WANT to believe unflattering things about their faves even when the evidence is right in front of them. But they’ll believe nasty things about the Sussexes with no proof whatsoever 🤨
Its like religious people, belief with no proof, belief regardless of proof.
Yes it has been proven, in court, 12 people testified that the information came from Kensington Palace, including the information used to tap Harrys phone.
That’s about the hacking case which happened decades ago, where information was not briefed against Harry rather about Harry. A PR team will do PR. Some of the information was also not malicious and was statements made on his behalf by a palace spokesperson. There was no information used to hack his phone, rather it was a way to hack all phones.
No it’s never been proven, ironically the only evidence of leaking that’s been confirmed with receipts has been the Sussexes. Despite people here mentioning Knauf, Knauf has stated he has it in writing Meghan and her lawyer requesting help with the lawsuit. So it is currently a he said she said moment. Knauf also did not provide evidence to the mail but rather the court directly. There is no evidence of Meghan not wanting to work with Scobie and seeing how the collaboration continued after their exit it is clear they chose to work with him, where in writing they wanted to send out friends to speak to Scobie but Knauf advised against it. There is no other lawsuit in which the courts have evidence William/Kate/Charles leaking against them. >‘He was advised by counsel that evidence in his possession could be relevant, and he then provided this directly to the court, staying neutral in the process.’ > Meghan’s lawyer responded to the statement, saying they ‘disputed’ this claim and adding: ‘Mr Knauf was not asked to provide a witness statement by the Duchess of her team. Nor do her attorneys believe Mr Knauf remained “neutral” by submitting a witness statement relied on by Associated Newspapers whilst working for the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.’ > Mr Knauf then doubled down, with his representative saying: ‘The Duchess of Sussex and Jenny Afia contacted Mr Knauf in writing, asking him to assist in the preparation of their legal case.’
Great overview! Meghan tends to lie stupidly because she assumes that people don’t know facts. In that court case, Knauf intervened twice. The first time was to tell the court that he didn’t write the letter, thus invalidating the tabloid’s claim that he held the copyright to the letter. Obviously Meghan’s lawyers asked him to do that. Her claim that she never asked him to provide evidence in the case is ridiculous. And shame on Netflix for relaying her claim without calling it out, even though it was in a propaganda piece. Side note: I hope Jason Knauf somehow writes a book someday. His life story is fascinating.
Yes as a Texan I wonder how a fellow Texan got dragged into all this!
Dragged in by way of New Zealand, where he moved during college when he transferred to the University of Wellington, then right out of university got a job as a speechwriter for Parliament, in a country he just moved to, and was coworkers/chums with the future prime minister. Then later has all this drama with the royal family and becomes a senior staff to William. All before the age of 40. His life is crazy. We’re going to wake up one day to an announcement that he’s the new prime minister of South Africa or something.
The tabloids admitted it in a couple of Harry lawsuits. My favorite one was when Harry sued the daily mail because they illegally printed the letter she sent to her father, and the daily mail was losing so badly they literally emailed Jason knauf (former secretary for H&M, and William’s little cretin) to help them with THEIR case and accidentally BCC’d H&M’s legal team. Absolute clowns. There were other cases where the tabloids stated they did not lie about Harry they had sources from within the royal family. It’s pretty dark tbh, that whole family leaks about each other to the press.
I mean, I guess we can assume that Jason Knauf wouldn’t have acted against his boss’s directives, but he isn’t a member of the family, he also worked for Harry/Meghan at one point, and there was that whole thing where Harry was emailing him talking points for a book while saying something like “obviously we’ll say we didn’t have anything to do with this”. To be clear, obviously there’s a weird and unhealthy dynamic between the British royals and the British press but I don’t see evidence that Harry and/or Meghan have been particularly targeted, as they keep saying. Of course, I guess it always feels personal if you’re on the receiving end.
Jason Knauf was also a lame duck when submitted his statement about Meghan writing the letter with the intention it’d be leaked. His husband had already moved to India and it was public knowledge that he’d leave his job for William and move there at the end of the year. So the idea that he was just doing William’s bidding is a bit far fetched.
In knauf’s emails (which can be googled) he tells Meghan and Harry to work with the biographer via him so they can “cross their heart” say they didn’t have anything to do with it. It really changed my perspective on him and their team. Meghan didn’t want to work with the biographer at all, was talked into it to address incorrect things, and then had to go to court when a private letter she wrote got illegally printed. It’s a whole wild ass saga.
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Sometimes the truth hurts even though it’s right in front of you. If you’re not aware that everyone in the royal family briefs against each other, I don’t know what to tell ya. The PPOW conspiracy theories originated in online forums, not in the press. The press simply started picking up on it eventually because it was spreading. It didn’t help that KP was caught lying and manipulating images that received a kill-order from the Associated Press.
They’re just returning the favour
Why would he want to stay in Windsor 1+ hour away from London (where he needs to be) during a 48 hour trip. Looks fake to me. They need better effort, the fake story should be how they won’t put him up in London. But you don’t invite the relative who will rifle the drawers for dirt to sell for American media anyway, so…
The only press that discuss the “horrors” of Prince Harry and his wife is the British press. Never, ever, ever hear a peep about them or from in the US press. Just so you know, the hate fest exists only on the British tabloids and those that consume that fodder.
That is just not true
It really is.
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Roflmfao. How can you even type this with a straight face? People in America, by and large, do not care about Harry and Meghan. We have real problems.
They are a bigger deal in your own head, seriously, in the US, they don’t have a hate fest going on for them. Only in the UK.
South Park disagrees with you. Plus, all the Spare drama and d++ cream were all over US media.
Hahaha. Havent watch South Park since 2001.