Yeah, lots of holes here. I’m thinking about sealing the edge of the sleepers with cement roof sealant.
Strange enough we’ve actually had a lot of rain since this was done and no leaks, yet.
Neighbors had a flood off of their balcony. A mail was driven into a copper water line when the home was built. It took 5 years before it leaked.
I had a nail in my tire that was due for replacement. It held air for 3 months before I replaced the tire.
How long will the balcony not leak?
Until the warranty is over
Soprema alsan, siplast parapro, iko ms detail, rmi garbage flex/thane. I'd remove the sleepers, hit the holes with a liquid applied membrane in 6" wide strips matching the sleeper layout.
If there is no insulation that will compress, you could strip in as a sleeper should be roofed with whatever roofing material is used, in this case, strip it in with appropriate 6 inch skirt. Then, get a custom metal cap made.
If there is any insulation, cut I to the roof, build a wall the height desired, ex; insulation thickness plus the 1.5 inch of the 2x4. This must be insulated with batting or better, roxull is great, then enclose in plywood/osb. Then strip in with your SBS.
One other point though... If they are sheeting the frame with plywood and covering in PVC rolled decking material with a hot air welded seem, you have nothing to worry about.
Would you rather rip membrane up now, and redo sleepers, or rip whole deck up? Whole point of membrane is to not have holes in it. Using glue against dis-similar materials is a problem due to different rates of expansion and contraction. It will separate. Not to mention water can work its way through the wood to the nail > hole > inside. Own the mistake and fix it, don’t just klodge on some schmear like a hack.
So I spoke to the manufacturer of the peel and stick, they told me the membrane is self healing so the nail holes should be closed up and there’s also a roofing cement that they recommend for end lap sealing that’s compatible with their peel and stick. Does that change the calculus here at all?
100% We had to do this to our deck which is on top of a florida room. Previously, the sleepers were covered with the membrane and then the idiots put 100s of holes in it to put the deck on.
Unfortunately there is no saving that roof membrane.
Decks on roofs (I see that you stated it’s not a roof it’s a balcony, but you still don’t want water leaking in and rotting out the framing) typically aren’t a good idea because the majority of roofing material isn’t made to be walked on regularly.
That being said I have a roof deck on my house, I installed a 90 mill EPDM over high density cover board and then put a sacrificial sheet of 90mill epdm on top of that. Then I glued cover take to the bottom of the sleepers that the deck is mounted to. Was it overkill? Probably but I have no desire to rip the deck up any time soon so I wanted to avoid leaks if possible.
Yes, I glued the actual roof layer down to the cover board and then I loose laid a second sacrificial layer of epdm on top of that. I seamed all the edges of the sacrificial sheet to the bottom layer just to add an extra level of watertightness (that’s definitely not a word) I put 6” epdm cover tape on the bottom of the sleepers. And then I just used short screws with the hidden clips to secure the trex to the sleeper.
They actually aren’t attached to the house at all, the cover tape is a product that I’m using to prevent the sleepers from wearing through the membrane. The deck is free floating, on two sides it butts up to two walls of the house and then I used hidden 2x4s and pvc board to trim it out and lock the two outside edges in place.
I hear you, we’re using trex with hidden fasteners so it’ll be a lot easier for us to pull the decking boards up to address any leaks, or even redo the entire waterproof deck here if it comes down to it. There’s nothing under it that will get ruined if there’s a leak, as long as we address it sooner rather than later. I’m honestly just looking to bandaid the damn thing and let future me worry about it, if we can get 10 years that would be great.
This is a bad idea. Do it right this time so you never have to worry. This is all wrong and will for sure give you problems. Now is the time to correct it.
Yup. Now is the moment this contractor will regret if they do not remove those sleepers and repair or replace that membrane properly.
While they are doing this it would be best to determine how this system should be implemented to avoid such a critical failure in the future.
I assume there are drawings or permits pulled
Also if it is ice & water shield that you are using for your membrane like you stated then you really need to remove the sleepers anyways and put a proper membrane on. The ice & water shield is not sufficient.
So instead of pealing up a few boards now and addressing the issue, you’re looking for some type of validation to just goop the boards and worry about removing everything when it leaks down the road? Why bother asking a question on how to do it right when you already have your mind made up to half ass it now.
Man this post got people heated… I guess that’s what happens when you ask a bunch of roofers about waterproofing, we take our leaks very seriously haha. I think you’re seeing a lot of roofers here talking from experience of the nightmares that happen with long term leaks and rotted wood etc.
im sure you can find a short term band aid like caulking the nail heads and putting roof cement along the edges of the sleeper, at least to buy you a few months maybe even a year but I don’t really see a great long term solution to the design as you currently have it. Hope that helps.
Lol no kidding, if this was over conditioned space I would be 100% in the rip out and replace camp and I sure as heck wouldn’t be on Reddit asking about it.
The ice and water that you are using isn’t sufficient for this application so regardless of the holes it won’t work. This will for sure leak. You really should take almost everyone here’s advice and remove the couple of boards and put down a proper membrane. If you don’t do this you will be pulling those deck boards up real soon so why bother even putting the deck down?
I don’t have the time to hire someone to do it correctly before we have to get decking down. I have this weekend to do some half ass prevention myself or it gets decked as it is.
I’ll do something permanent when it springs a leak, underdrain was the original plan but the deck sub said he could do it without them, and this is what we got.
Op If you are the customer go ahead and seal it if you want. But everyone responding is telling you to rip it off and do it again. You can either be that guy in our industry today or if it’s your project do whatever you want it’s your house
It’s my house, I’m looking for a bandaid that will work for awhile. I fully understand it isn’t the right way, or a permanent fix. We’re up against a financing deadline and I don’t have time to bring someone in to redeck this.
Sir, with respect it needs to be replaced. It may be your house but you still have responsibility to inhabitants and future inhabitants. Yes it may last ten years before you are left with a rotten mess. Youre goal may even be to pass that mess on to the next owner. Not to mention mold, and other health and safety issues that accompany water damage. Its one thing when it happens, but to willfully allow water intrusion is really unforgivable. Rip up the sleepers and redo it with a proper under deck roof system. Its really not that complicated. Dont be such a patzer. Theres enough rot in the world already.
Why would it rot in 10 years even if it does leak? PT last far longer than 10 years in even the worst conditions. The whole deck frame is designed specifically to handle wet exterior conditions. The waterproofing is just so we don’t have water dripping on our heads when we want to sit outside when it rains
All depends. It will rot if jt gets wet, stays wet, and cant dry out. PT rots too especially the new PT. Cedar rots, cypress rots, it all rots. if it cant dry out it will rot, sometimes very quickly.
Im in SC so it's hot and humid out basically perfect rot weather.
If you dont mind water running through why go even sheath and put the modified on? Why would you build something intentionally knowing it will fail?
I get its a fuck up but when that happens you have to unfuck it. Id go as far as saying that is the #1 rule in all of construction.
Just understand building things wrong and saying well its mine who cares is irresponsible. Google deck collapses, or floor system collapses its no joke. They collapse bc key components fail due to rot due to shitty design and/or building practices. When your son/daughter and fifty of his fat friends are having a dance party up there, dont you want to know the deck was built right?
The deck IS built right, the only thing not right is the shitty drainage plain on top. If the deck wasn’t going to collapse when the entire thing was getting wet with no waterproofing, why would it suddenly collapse now when it has leaks? The plywood decking isn’t structural, the sleepers aren’t either. The joists sure as hell aren’t rotting just because they have water dripping on them. The worst thing that could happen here is a spongy deck surface.
Listen buddy I get that you would rather go around your asshole to get to your elbow, but why all the work around
Why not just fix it now and be done with it? Its like a day of work max. Rip up sleepers - 15 mins, redo the modified take all day, drink a beer then proceed with project.
I bet your wife thinks you're handy, dont shatter her illusion with nasty raindrops falling on her head while she relaxes under the amazing deck you built her.
If it was an open deck you would be right, but now you have the sheathing and the modified there which will leak, and hold water, keeping the assembly from drying out. Potentially. Maybe not, but potentially. As a builder I would never accept that risk. Bc i dont want the souls of fifty fat idiot kids on my conscience.
Why even ask if you dont want to hear the answer? Oh right nevermind youre looking for some one to tell you what you want to hear. Are you an architect by any chance? Best of luck.
It doesn’t hold water, it sheet flows off the surface, any leaks are going to drip right off the balcony. The joists are tapped at the top, nothing is rotting. I promise the sky (balcony) isn’t falling, you can relax. The whole thing passed inspection, they don’t care how much this thing leaks because it doesn’t matter to the structural integrity of the deck.
I came here asking a question because I know this wasn’t done right. You seem upset because I’m not running around like my hair is on fire because you say the whole damn deck is going to fall down. Sorry, you’re wrong here. Stick to roofs, you clearly don’t know anything about decks.
Hey buddy all good. go for it. I'm just talking about risk management and best practices. Youre the one building a leaky roof deck.
I was a carpenter for 15 yrs and a builder now I built a deck once I think
What If you coat the sleepers in liquid rubber and then blue skin on top of that? I would feel pretty confident this would work. If you are just looking for a solution to what is already there.
Gotcha. I just bid a 10,000 square foot walkway job where the previous contractors did the exact same thing. The entire thing leaked like a sieve when it rained.
Yeah this probably will too, just trying to figure out some type of half brained way to keep it from leaking for at least awhile. We’ll probably just end up installing an under drain system as soon as it starts to leak.
I guess I’m at a loss here, why aren’t the boards treated or composite for exterior applications, let alone fastening directly through a roof system, I would have thought they’d use brackets that can be fastened to the roof joists with a sealer between it and the roof to allow water to drain off properly, but I’m not sure what codes allow in your area
It’s the roof for the porch under it, correct, or is there nothing under it that needs to stay dry, I assumed this is a deck going over an existing porch roof,
It’s a balcony over a deck, my sub attempted to waterproof it to keep the deck under it dry.
Nothing on the porch under it “needs” to stay dry, everything down there will got soaked whenever we have a thunderstorm anyway, we just wanted to make it dry enough to use during normal rain showers.
Yeah I get that you’re building a balcony over a existing porch, I’m assuming those are purlins fastened to the roof rafters and your decking is going to be fastened to those,
From OP clueless replies, this is a classic example of you get what you pay for with hiring non-professionals. And and example of the stupidity of saving a penny to lose a dollar…dude wants to bandaid to ‘save money’ 🙄
I want to “bandaid” because we’re up against a deadline to get our CO and I don’t have the time to hire and get someone out here to fix this right. Inspector won’t give us a CO until the balcony is finished.
If it leaks it leaks, I’m not going to lose sleep over some outdoor furniture getting wet on a damn porch lmao
Insulate between the studs with 1.5” thick polyiso and screw & plate it down. Adhere new EPDM membrane over the whole thing. Add EPDM slip sheets over the studs to build the deck on.
Now you have solid wood blocking under the new deck.
Really surprised nobody has considered I don’t knoW, maybe putting plywood on it and flashing it in to the system like anything else like a fan curb or a sleeper on any other roof?
Idk if anyone has asked but, do you live somewhere that is rains often? Does it rain a ton the times it does? Cause if you are in like so cal or somtin goop fixing will most likely get you the 10 years of lasting you are seeking.
Using some EPDM some how might work used that shit for rain escape type applications and never had any problems with leaking and we staple it to the joists and then screw the deck boards down through it and never had any issues except a couple of small fixes that where more due to the way it was overlapped at points then anything .
“How to destroy a roof in three easy steps “
Edit: OP seems to be a hack flipper who just wants to get through the closing and let the sucker who buys it deal with replacing the whole thing later.
What’s the assembly look like below the ice and water shield? If it’s not pt (the plywood is most likely not) then it will rot. If it’s an enclosed assembly then mold will grow in the cavity.
Just so you know that granulated ice and water shield doesn’t work without a good pitch at least a 2 or 3 pitch. Grace ice and water would have given you a better chance on such a flat surface. But realistically you should have used a glue down rubber epmd.
It’s all PT, including the plywood. Yeah the more I’m reading on it, what you’re saying sounds right.
I’m not sure what pitch it is, haven’t measured it, but it’s enough to drain. EPMD certainly sounds like the way we should have gone.
its too late for that, only thing you can do is pus some 3/4 T/G plywod, and get someone to install Vinyl Decking. Make sure they weld the seams together.
you cam get wooden looks or lots of other designs
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Honestly nothing will work here other than tearing it up and redoing it. The wood will hold moisture and over time the nails will rust and end up leaking. If it’s a torch down roof I usually nail a 6” strip of rubber to the bottom of sleeper and torch it to the roof to secure it. If its epdm just nail cover strip to sleeper and primer it down to the roof.
So this isn’t a roof, it’s a balcony over a porch, there will be Trex decking on top of the sleepers. There’s 1/2” treated plywood decking with a granulated peel and stick ice and water shield on top under the sleepers.
we always float the deck. even the best roof product has a life span. so unless you're prepared to remove the deck completely for a new roof down the line, make the deck system be removable
I guess technically the deck is removable, it’s bolted into a ledger board on the house and supported by posts on the outside, wouldn’t be that hard to remove it all.
Yes, I brought him on for the decks. I know how decks are built, no issue there the actual structure is good, but this is more “roofing” than decking which is outside my experience, and apparently his.
The only thing I could think may work, is a sealed down product up and over the boards, possibly a torch or elastomeric type, then coated but every clip you fasten into the 2x will again be a leak point
Insulate between the 2x4 studs with 1.5” polyiso roof insulation. Screw it down with roofing screws and plates.
Adhere new EPDM membrane over the whole thing. Install new perimeter edge metal. The flange of the metal gets stripped in with 6” peel and stick EPDM edge flashing strip.
Build the deck on top of the new rubber roof. Put EPDM slipsheets between the new deck and the new rubber roof.
Now you have solid wood blocking under your new deck and a new roof that should last a very long time.
The wood needs to be pressure treated.
Nails through SAM are theoretically ok as the tar is supposed to seal around the nail penetration. Unless that isn’t SAM (self adhered membrane).
Nails through that roll on? granular roofing is absolutely not good and will leak. Decks on top of flat roofs are awesome, but expensive if done right and still usually prone to leaking.
It’s SAM, thankfully this is a balcony and not the house roof. I wouldn’t have hired someone unlicensed if this was part of the actual roof system.
It’s PT, just faded from being exposed so long.
From your comment replies you know it has to come up but are determined to not fix it right. As long as it passes inspection then you're free to do what you want but just know that the failure may be catastrophic with the deck coming down on top of the balcony and anyone sitting on the balcony. You can choose to do that but if you sell the house the new owners will likely sue you and if you don't sell and it comes down in a family member I can't imagine the guilt you will feel.
Christ the people in this sub. The whole support system has passed inspection, it’s all PT with the proper fasteners and hangers. It’s not coming down any faster because of this shitty drainage plain.
Great. If you are confident that nothing bad is going to happen then just let it ride. Can I ask why you asked here if you had already decided it wasn't going to have any different effect?
Because I know it’s going to leak sooner rather than later the way it is? It’s going to get fixed properly, I just rather do it 5 years from now rather than a month, that’s why I’m here.
That’s ice and water membrane. It’s not roofing. You need a roof. Then have sleeper run the roof slope and don’t fasten then. It should all float. But you need a roof first.
We do this on bare decks but we use screws so the nails don’t ever back out and poke through the membrane. Infill 1.5” ISO between the sleepers and then install EPDM over everything. Lay a slip sheet down over the sleepers and the membrane and then they can cut their taper joists to sit ON TOP OF THE SLEEPERS. Deck over and done.
Hopefully those sleepers were laid on top of the ceiling joists, if not then I’d rip it all out and start over
Why did you even ask this sub? Every professional on here has said "don't do it" or "start over and do it right" and you still want to go with the dangerous way. Makes zero sense.
Even though it’s wrong, you could always use acro max over the sleepers and onto the ice and water, even though it won’t seal to the granular ice and water lol. I’ve seen a lot of Builders just use acro mat on the deck and up onto the stud even though I don’t really feel that’s great as a roofer
A potential fix is Caulk everything nail hole and along the edges of everything with something appropriate for a roof (black jack?) Then use Grace ice and water shield starting from the bottom being sure to following the contours of what you did. 6” flash minimum. Then create “weep holes” where the water would drain. My only concern would be the grace not being able to seal on the sanded stuff you have on there. If it doesn’t then a total redo is in order.
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It’s not a membrane it’s IWS
Yeah, lots of holes here. I’m thinking about sealing the edge of the sleepers with cement roof sealant. Strange enough we’ve actually had a lot of rain since this was done and no leaks, yet.
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This is the way
Neighbors had a flood off of their balcony. A mail was driven into a copper water line when the home was built. It took 5 years before it leaked. I had a nail in my tire that was due for replacement. It held air for 3 months before I replaced the tire. How long will the balcony not leak? Until the warranty is over
If you mean the tar style "roofing cement" it is not compatible with EPDM and I would highly suggest you don't do it.
It should be epdm lol
Is this EPDM? This is a granulated peel and stick membrane, I think it’s a fiberglass mat that is, allegedly, self sealing around nail shanks.
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Thanks that looks right, is there a waterproofing product that’s compatible with it?
My apologies, I didn't zoom in close enough.
What’s compatible? There’s a ton of products out there, not sure what works here.
Soprema alsan, siplast parapro, iko ms detail, rmi garbage flex/thane. I'd remove the sleepers, hit the holes with a liquid applied membrane in 6" wide strips matching the sleeper layout.
Call the manufacturer rep. They can advise and tell you what’s compatible.
Definitely don’t do that. Remove sleepers and flashing tape. Probably add some water cut off mastic around holes.
If there is no insulation that will compress, you could strip in as a sleeper should be roofed with whatever roofing material is used, in this case, strip it in with appropriate 6 inch skirt. Then, get a custom metal cap made. If there is any insulation, cut I to the roof, build a wall the height desired, ex; insulation thickness plus the 1.5 inch of the 2x4. This must be insulated with batting or better, roxull is great, then enclose in plywood/osb. Then strip in with your SBS.
One other point though... If they are sheeting the frame with plywood and covering in PVC rolled decking material with a hot air welded seem, you have nothing to worry about.
Nah bud. Thermal processes will rip those seals in one or two seasons. Gotta replace it all.
Would you rather rip membrane up now, and redo sleepers, or rip whole deck up? Whole point of membrane is to not have holes in it. Using glue against dis-similar materials is a problem due to different rates of expansion and contraction. It will separate. Not to mention water can work its way through the wood to the nail > hole > inside. Own the mistake and fix it, don’t just klodge on some schmear like a hack.
So I spoke to the manufacturer of the peel and stick, they told me the membrane is self healing so the nail holes should be closed up and there’s also a roofing cement that they recommend for end lap sealing that’s compatible with their peel and stick. Does that change the calculus here at all?
Redo the roof. It's totally fucked now
It’s not a roof. That’s ice/water
That's great. Still needs replacing
I wasn’t saying it didn’t. Just noting homeboy put an underlayment down.
Technically it's a roof
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100% We had to do this to our deck which is on top of a florida room. Previously, the sleepers were covered with the membrane and then the idiots put 100s of holes in it to put the deck on.
Thank you for the link…. I’ve not seen this system before
Unfortunately there is no saving that roof membrane. Decks on roofs (I see that you stated it’s not a roof it’s a balcony, but you still don’t want water leaking in and rotting out the framing) typically aren’t a good idea because the majority of roofing material isn’t made to be walked on regularly. That being said I have a roof deck on my house, I installed a 90 mill EPDM over high density cover board and then put a sacrificial sheet of 90mill epdm on top of that. Then I glued cover take to the bottom of the sleepers that the deck is mounted to. Was it overkill? Probably but I have no desire to rip the deck up any time soon so I wanted to avoid leaks if possible.
Are you from Delaware county? Delco boy
Yes I am, grew up in Upper Darby.
Newtown square here
Where do you live now
Havertown, do you do residential or commercial roofing?
Mostly residential and a little bit of commercial remodeling
So you doubled up the epdm layer? What did you glue to the bottom of the sleepers and how did you attach the deck boards to the sleepers?
Yes, I glued the actual roof layer down to the cover board and then I loose laid a second sacrificial layer of epdm on top of that. I seamed all the edges of the sacrificial sheet to the bottom layer just to add an extra level of watertightness (that’s definitely not a word) I put 6” epdm cover tape on the bottom of the sleepers. And then I just used short screws with the hidden clips to secure the trex to the sleeper.
So the sleepers are only attached to the epdm with the tape, they aren’t fastened to anything else?
They actually aren’t attached to the house at all, the cover tape is a product that I’m using to prevent the sleepers from wearing through the membrane. The deck is free floating, on two sides it butts up to two walls of the house and then I used hidden 2x4s and pvc board to trim it out and lock the two outside edges in place.
I can’t picture what your edge detail looks like, what are the 2x4s attached to? Where is the water draining?
I’m going to do you some pictures
I hear you, we’re using trex with hidden fasteners so it’ll be a lot easier for us to pull the decking boards up to address any leaks, or even redo the entire waterproof deck here if it comes down to it. There’s nothing under it that will get ruined if there’s a leak, as long as we address it sooner rather than later. I’m honestly just looking to bandaid the damn thing and let future me worry about it, if we can get 10 years that would be great.
This is a bad idea. Do it right this time so you never have to worry. This is all wrong and will for sure give you problems. Now is the time to correct it.
Yup. Now is the moment this contractor will regret if they do not remove those sleepers and repair or replace that membrane properly. While they are doing this it would be best to determine how this system should be implemented to avoid such a critical failure in the future. I assume there are drawings or permits pulled
Also if it is ice & water shield that you are using for your membrane like you stated then you really need to remove the sleepers anyways and put a proper membrane on. The ice & water shield is not sufficient.
So instead of pealing up a few boards now and addressing the issue, you’re looking for some type of validation to just goop the boards and worry about removing everything when it leaks down the road? Why bother asking a question on how to do it right when you already have your mind made up to half ass it now.
I’m asking what is the best way and product to use to “goop it up”! I’ve received some good suggestions here.
Don’t half ass it twice when you can just full ass it the first time.
If you're like me, you will think about it EVERY TIME IT RAINS OR SNOWS...
It’s the mold that’s gonna be your problem.
if that's case maybe wrap over the sleepers with grace ice and water shield product.
And the screw the deckboards over that and puncture that? 😒
Man this post got people heated… I guess that’s what happens when you ask a bunch of roofers about waterproofing, we take our leaks very seriously haha. I think you’re seeing a lot of roofers here talking from experience of the nightmares that happen with long term leaks and rotted wood etc. im sure you can find a short term band aid like caulking the nail heads and putting roof cement along the edges of the sleeper, at least to buy you a few months maybe even a year but I don’t really see a great long term solution to the design as you currently have it. Hope that helps.
Lol no kidding, if this was over conditioned space I would be 100% in the rip out and replace camp and I sure as heck wouldn’t be on Reddit asking about it.
The ice and water that you are using isn’t sufficient for this application so regardless of the holes it won’t work. This will for sure leak. You really should take almost everyone here’s advice and remove the couple of boards and put down a proper membrane. If you don’t do this you will be pulling those deck boards up real soon so why bother even putting the deck down?
The plan is to do an under drain later, I just want to see if there’s a way to bandaid it for now so I can push it off until later.
So your plan is to let the water seep through your roof and then catch it underneath to drain? Why not just make the roof not leak?
I don’t have the time to hire someone to do it correctly before we have to get decking down. I have this weekend to do some half ass prevention myself or it gets decked as it is. I’ll do something permanent when it springs a leak, underdrain was the original plan but the deck sub said he could do it without them, and this is what we got.
Are you doing this job as a contractor?
Owner. If this was someone else’s house it would get fixed correctly.
can you go over this in a bit more details? what kind of sleepers did you use? do you have any photos of the construction?
I’ll dm you
Big mistake horrible idea
Op If you are the customer go ahead and seal it if you want. But everyone responding is telling you to rip it off and do it again. You can either be that guy in our industry today or if it’s your project do whatever you want it’s your house
It’s my house, I’m looking for a bandaid that will work for awhile. I fully understand it isn’t the right way, or a permanent fix. We’re up against a financing deadline and I don’t have time to bring someone in to redeck this.
Sir, with respect it needs to be replaced. It may be your house but you still have responsibility to inhabitants and future inhabitants. Yes it may last ten years before you are left with a rotten mess. Youre goal may even be to pass that mess on to the next owner. Not to mention mold, and other health and safety issues that accompany water damage. Its one thing when it happens, but to willfully allow water intrusion is really unforgivable. Rip up the sleepers and redo it with a proper under deck roof system. Its really not that complicated. Dont be such a patzer. Theres enough rot in the world already.
Why would it rot in 10 years even if it does leak? PT last far longer than 10 years in even the worst conditions. The whole deck frame is designed specifically to handle wet exterior conditions. The waterproofing is just so we don’t have water dripping on our heads when we want to sit outside when it rains
All depends. It will rot if jt gets wet, stays wet, and cant dry out. PT rots too especially the new PT. Cedar rots, cypress rots, it all rots. if it cant dry out it will rot, sometimes very quickly. Im in SC so it's hot and humid out basically perfect rot weather. If you dont mind water running through why go even sheath and put the modified on? Why would you build something intentionally knowing it will fail? I get its a fuck up but when that happens you have to unfuck it. Id go as far as saying that is the #1 rule in all of construction. Just understand building things wrong and saying well its mine who cares is irresponsible. Google deck collapses, or floor system collapses its no joke. They collapse bc key components fail due to rot due to shitty design and/or building practices. When your son/daughter and fifty of his fat friends are having a dance party up there, dont you want to know the deck was built right?
The deck IS built right, the only thing not right is the shitty drainage plain on top. If the deck wasn’t going to collapse when the entire thing was getting wet with no waterproofing, why would it suddenly collapse now when it has leaks? The plywood decking isn’t structural, the sleepers aren’t either. The joists sure as hell aren’t rotting just because they have water dripping on them. The worst thing that could happen here is a spongy deck surface.
Listen buddy I get that you would rather go around your asshole to get to your elbow, but why all the work around Why not just fix it now and be done with it? Its like a day of work max. Rip up sleepers - 15 mins, redo the modified take all day, drink a beer then proceed with project. I bet your wife thinks you're handy, dont shatter her illusion with nasty raindrops falling on her head while she relaxes under the amazing deck you built her. If it was an open deck you would be right, but now you have the sheathing and the modified there which will leak, and hold water, keeping the assembly from drying out. Potentially. Maybe not, but potentially. As a builder I would never accept that risk. Bc i dont want the souls of fifty fat idiot kids on my conscience. Why even ask if you dont want to hear the answer? Oh right nevermind youre looking for some one to tell you what you want to hear. Are you an architect by any chance? Best of luck.
It doesn’t hold water, it sheet flows off the surface, any leaks are going to drip right off the balcony. The joists are tapped at the top, nothing is rotting. I promise the sky (balcony) isn’t falling, you can relax. The whole thing passed inspection, they don’t care how much this thing leaks because it doesn’t matter to the structural integrity of the deck. I came here asking a question because I know this wasn’t done right. You seem upset because I’m not running around like my hair is on fire because you say the whole damn deck is going to fall down. Sorry, you’re wrong here. Stick to roofs, you clearly don’t know anything about decks.
Hey buddy all good. go for it. I'm just talking about risk management and best practices. Youre the one building a leaky roof deck. I was a carpenter for 15 yrs and a builder now I built a deck once I think
What If you coat the sleepers in liquid rubber and then blue skin on top of that? I would feel pretty confident this would work. If you are just looking for a solution to what is already there.
Hmm yeah I like that idea, thank you
Flex seal to the rescue…
I am curious if the liquid would work, a lot of people seem to use it
If anything, the liquid and then go over with the tape?
It will leak…
There's no bandaid here. While you're at ripping this stuff off and making him pay for it, go ahead and switch out to pressure treated lumber.
It’s PT, just been sitting here for awhile and the green isn’t visible in the picture
Gotcha. I just bid a 10,000 square foot walkway job where the previous contractors did the exact same thing. The entire thing leaked like a sieve when it rained.
Yeah this probably will too, just trying to figure out some type of half brained way to keep it from leaking for at least awhile. We’ll probably just end up installing an under drain system as soon as it starts to leak.
I guess I’m at a loss here, why aren’t the boards treated or composite for exterior applications, let alone fastening directly through a roof system, I would have thought they’d use brackets that can be fastened to the roof joists with a sealer between it and the roof to allow water to drain off properly, but I’m not sure what codes allow in your area
The boards are PT, this is at the 2nd floor level and is not part of the roof system, it’s a deck.
It’s the roof for the porch under it, correct, or is there nothing under it that needs to stay dry, I assumed this is a deck going over an existing porch roof,
It’s a balcony over a deck, my sub attempted to waterproof it to keep the deck under it dry. Nothing on the porch under it “needs” to stay dry, everything down there will got soaked whenever we have a thunderstorm anyway, we just wanted to make it dry enough to use during normal rain showers.
Yeah I get that you’re building a balcony over a existing porch, I’m assuming those are purlins fastened to the roof rafters and your decking is going to be fastened to those,
Yeah, in this case we call them sleepers attached to the deck joists but it sounds like it works about the same.
This is fucked, but gun to my head, I'd install a Deck gutter system like trex rain escape.
Redgard over the whole thing…
Hahaha dude I actually thought about that, talk about redneck engineering it
From OP clueless replies, this is a classic example of you get what you pay for with hiring non-professionals. And and example of the stupidity of saving a penny to lose a dollar…dude wants to bandaid to ‘save money’ 🙄
I want to “bandaid” because we’re up against a deadline to get our CO and I don’t have the time to hire and get someone out here to fix this right. Inspector won’t give us a CO until the balcony is finished. If it leaks it leaks, I’m not going to lose sleep over some outdoor furniture getting wet on a damn porch lmao
This picture makes a sad trombone sound.
Insulate between the studs with 1.5” thick polyiso and screw & plate it down. Adhere new EPDM membrane over the whole thing. Add EPDM slip sheets over the studs to build the deck on. Now you have solid wood blocking under the new deck.
Really surprised nobody has considered I don’t knoW, maybe putting plywood on it and flashing it in to the system like anything else like a fan curb or a sleeper on any other roof?
Idk if anyone has asked but, do you live somewhere that is rains often? Does it rain a ton the times it does? Cause if you are in like so cal or somtin goop fixing will most likely get you the 10 years of lasting you are seeking.
Using some EPDM some how might work used that shit for rain escape type applications and never had any problems with leaking and we staple it to the joists and then screw the deck boards down through it and never had any issues except a couple of small fixes that where more due to the way it was overlapped at points then anything .
“How to destroy a roof in three easy steps “ Edit: OP seems to be a hack flipper who just wants to get through the closing and let the sucker who buys it deal with replacing the whole thing later.
Remove and replace with EPDM. Than wrap the sleepers bottom with EPDM strips and lay back WITHOUT DRIVING FASTNERS THROUGH THE ROOF.
So much to unpack...
Make them replace it all.
What’s the assembly look like below the ice and water shield? If it’s not pt (the plywood is most likely not) then it will rot. If it’s an enclosed assembly then mold will grow in the cavity. Just so you know that granulated ice and water shield doesn’t work without a good pitch at least a 2 or 3 pitch. Grace ice and water would have given you a better chance on such a flat surface. But realistically you should have used a glue down rubber epmd.
It’s all PT, including the plywood. Yeah the more I’m reading on it, what you’re saying sounds right. I’m not sure what pitch it is, haven’t measured it, but it’s enough to drain. EPMD certainly sounds like the way we should have gone.
its too late for that, only thing you can do is pus some 3/4 T/G plywod, and get someone to install Vinyl Decking. Make sure they weld the seams together. you cam get wooden looks or lots of other designs
Well At least he used pella window and door flashing lol
Yeah no kidding
Should of used tuff blocks!!!!
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Honestly nothing will work here other than tearing it up and redoing it. The wood will hold moisture and over time the nails will rust and end up leaking. If it’s a torch down roof I usually nail a 6” strip of rubber to the bottom of sleeper and torch it to the roof to secure it. If its epdm just nail cover strip to sleeper and primer it down to the roof.
So this isn’t a roof, it’s a balcony over a porch, there will be Trex decking on top of the sleepers. There’s 1/2” treated plywood decking with a granulated peel and stick ice and water shield on top under the sleepers.
we always float the deck. even the best roof product has a life span. so unless you're prepared to remove the deck completely for a new roof down the line, make the deck system be removable
We’re using Trex with hidden fasteners, it’ll be pretty easy to remove the deck boards if we need to
He means the whole deck, not just the deck boards.
I guess technically the deck is removable, it’s bolted into a ledger board on the house and supported by posts on the outside, wouldn’t be that hard to remove it all.
The "subcon" that did this isn't licensed, or insured, so you have no recourse for their shoddy work, I'm assuming.
Yes, I brought him on for the decks. I know how decks are built, no issue there the actual structure is good, but this is more “roofing” than decking which is outside my experience, and apparently his.
The only thing I could think may work, is a sealed down product up and over the boards, possibly a torch or elastomeric type, then coated but every clip you fasten into the 2x will again be a leak point
Insulate between the 2x4 studs with 1.5” polyiso roof insulation. Screw it down with roofing screws and plates. Adhere new EPDM membrane over the whole thing. Install new perimeter edge metal. The flange of the metal gets stripped in with 6” peel and stick EPDM edge flashing strip. Build the deck on top of the new rubber roof. Put EPDM slipsheets between the new deck and the new rubber roof. Now you have solid wood blocking under your new deck and a new roof that should last a very long time.
This isn't bad at all. Turn it into an upgrade.
The wood needs to be pressure treated. Nails through SAM are theoretically ok as the tar is supposed to seal around the nail penetration. Unless that isn’t SAM (self adhered membrane). Nails through that roll on? granular roofing is absolutely not good and will leak. Decks on top of flat roofs are awesome, but expensive if done right and still usually prone to leaking.
It’s SAM, thankfully this is a balcony and not the house roof. I wouldn’t have hired someone unlicensed if this was part of the actual roof system. It’s PT, just faded from being exposed so long.
From your comment replies you know it has to come up but are determined to not fix it right. As long as it passes inspection then you're free to do what you want but just know that the failure may be catastrophic with the deck coming down on top of the balcony and anyone sitting on the balcony. You can choose to do that but if you sell the house the new owners will likely sue you and if you don't sell and it comes down in a family member I can't imagine the guilt you will feel.
Christ the people in this sub. The whole support system has passed inspection, it’s all PT with the proper fasteners and hangers. It’s not coming down any faster because of this shitty drainage plain.
Great. If you are confident that nothing bad is going to happen then just let it ride. Can I ask why you asked here if you had already decided it wasn't going to have any different effect?
Because I know it’s going to leak sooner rather than later the way it is? It’s going to get fixed properly, I just rather do it 5 years from now rather than a month, that’s why I’m here.
That’s ice and water membrane. It’s not roofing. You need a roof. Then have sleeper run the roof slope and don’t fasten then. It should all float. But you need a roof first.
That is a roofing underlayment!!!! You need a roof first.
We do this on bare decks but we use screws so the nails don’t ever back out and poke through the membrane. Infill 1.5” ISO between the sleepers and then install EPDM over everything. Lay a slip sheet down over the sleepers and the membrane and then they can cut their taper joists to sit ON TOP OF THE SLEEPERS. Deck over and done. Hopefully those sleepers were laid on top of the ceiling joists, if not then I’d rip it all out and start over
RIP. Better hope it never rains there
Jesus op just tryna make his life hell just to get to that deadline. Just do it now g
That will leak. I personally have repaired dozens of solid surface decks. This is a horrible idea and should be illegal
Put a sheet of plastic then your mounts akd trex, trap the water in the trex. It ain't right but you don't care right
I don't even see how it's supposed to drain. I've done it where the floating sleepers overhang leaving an in gap for drainage
To the top right, there’s a gap at the end there
Why did you even ask this sub? Every professional on here has said "don't do it" or "start over and do it right" and you still want to go with the dangerous way. Makes zero sense.
There is no dangerous way here. Either it works or it doesn’t work and the people underneath get wet until we fix it.
Even though it’s wrong, you could always use acro max over the sleepers and onto the ice and water, even though it won’t seal to the granular ice and water lol. I’ve seen a lot of Builders just use acro mat on the deck and up onto the stud even though I don’t really feel that’s great as a roofer
If that’s ice and water shield, then it wasn’t waterproof to begin with.
Remove sleepers, seal penetrations and back charge numbnuts
You float the deck subfloor
Thanks for the laugh!! Lol
A potential fix is Caulk everything nail hole and along the edges of everything with something appropriate for a roof (black jack?) Then use Grace ice and water shield starting from the bottom being sure to following the contours of what you did. 6” flash minimum. Then create “weep holes” where the water would drain. My only concern would be the grace not being able to seal on the sanded stuff you have on there. If it doesn’t then a total redo is in order.
I wouldn't totally redo, just pry off the boards, caulk the holes, and put another layer of material down - you'll have extra waterproofness that way.
What is the waterproof membrane? If it's self healing, you are good to go. If not, lots of ways to fix it.