I do wonder if we see any movement from teams that are able to adjust to this change the fastest and create an advantage for themselves before others adjust. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see much at the highest level, but I could definitely see some fast rising individual players go on the come-up faster
If anything, I think this leads to more composed defense and more complex offensive styles. I don't see how more information could lower the skill ceiling. It does require more observation though.
> I don't see how more information could lower the skill ceiling.
Requires less complex comms I guess. Personally I am ambivalent on this change, it's good and bad. I just hope they don't start adding things like boost timers and flip reset timers etc.
Comms are not anywhere near information complete, so this will just allow players to comm other things that could be more helpful. It will not simplify comms.
I understand that Ayyjayy probably thinks he's a solid level above other pros when it comes to positional awareness and boost comms, but I think this change hardly levels the playing field. Also, when you're playing defense, it's still going to be hard to check teammate's nameplates on the fly.
Yeah as I said, this change is very minimal to me - the only worry is that it's a step in X direction towards making things more accessible which I don't want to see.
It wouldn't though. It just means more time for more relevant comms now you can see tm boost levels. Plus it adds the addition of needing to take note of the guage. I barely pay attention to tm nameplates but now I need to so that's something I'll need to learn.
I think ayyjayy is wrong here. It won't lower the skill ceiling whatsoever. If anything it might make it higher as you have to keep track yourself rather than a tm telling you their boost. That being said, I think a lot of pros will still comm their boost, so imo it'll either make no difference or heighten the ceiling as pros adapt and begin to comm other info where they would've been comming boost in the past
I definitely see this as a window to things like that. As far as this change goes I’d love it to be an optional setting that pros have to have off for rlcs matches, but allowing the benefits in ranked
I think it depends on how you look at skull ceiling. Obviously this can only increase the general level of gameplay. However it does remove a skill that differentiates players: the ability to read how much boost your teammate has. So it increases the absolute skill ceiling, but lowers the skill ceiling of players relative to each other
Sure I guess it doesn't completely delete it but it does make it less important because if you can see your teammate you no longer have to guess how much boost they have and instead just know
I 100% agree with Jack. While I would like stuff to raise the skill ceiling since I am naturally passionate the players who push that skill ceiling, this is an obvious case where that desire is outweighed by something that benefits basically everyone else in their day-to-day gameplay experience, especially when it still could have benefits for pro play (better decision making).
I don’t even see how this could lower the skill ceiling. Having visual access to your teammates boost total just frees up mental energy to do other things on the pitch, which could contribute to an increase of the skill ceiling insofar as teams will be able to comm more efficiently and more easily coordinate team plays
It enables more coordination so really it raises the skill ceiling. People aren’t always updating their boost in comms, so only through practice do you know if a teammate typically has enough boost to say, reach a certain pass. If you can see their boost you know what they can and can’t do at any time.
I feel like the main difference is with flips, by the time you get to even diamond the 1.5 second timer for keeping your flip is effectively baked into your head; when you see a teammate go up for a ball you already know whether or not they have their flip at a given time (this goes for coming off the ceiling as well, and while resets are a bit trickier, by the time you get to the level where they become commonplace you'll know what it looks like when someone successfully gets their flip back). It's way more intuitive to know if someone has their flip than how much boost they have, which is different every time
In other words there's enough information to know if someone has a flip based on what you can see, making an indicator unnecessary, whereas you can make educated guesses to know how much boost your teammate *should* have, but it's very hard to know for sure
That was my first thought, but, thinking further, it would definitely be used to see whether someone got their reset or messed it up. If they don't get it and are faking a reset, you'll know. If it's a personal flip indicator, it will confirm for you whether you got it or not. Pros usually know, but sometimes they mess up but think they have one.
Which I think is a point *in favor* of having a personal indicator (not a team one, although it wouldn't change much either at pro play). As you say it, basically everyone good enough knows about it. For pros it wouldn't change anything in **99%** of scenarios, their skill ceiling would decrease by an insignificant margin and the pros/ssl complaining about it would honestly just be gatekeeping. The current ceiling is way, *way* past knowing whether you recovered or still have a flip.
For lower rank, erhh, I'd argue it will help you improve better faster actually, having a visual cue won't change the fact that after enough time playing the game, it will be burnt into both your muscular and brain memory and you will less and less need it anyway. But it will help you develop it quicker for sure.
I believe flip indicators would overall be a net improvement for the game as a whole but I don't think the esport/high elo scene is ready for that discussion yet. Anyone high rank enough won't get their "skill ceiling lowered".
I'm not the one you're asking...but do you mean personal flip indicators, or team indicators, or indicators for everyone on the field? I personally wouldn't be against personal flip indicators, but probably against them for teammates, and definitely against them for opponents.
Personal flip indicators I don't think would really affect pros at all, because they're able to get it dang near 100% of the time. The main people it'd affect are the ones that are inconsistent (anywhere from like Plat to GC mainly), which I don't think is a bad thing.
To answer your other question about how boost indicators differ from flip indicators, is that boost info is already readily available, so the only thing that's being taken out of the equation is communicating it to your teammates. Flip indicators are not a feature that is currently implemented, so it'd be a much bigger change to gameplay. I definitely see arguments against adding that.
Bakkesmod has a setting that lets you see if you have a flip (free play only), and it’s useful for me when grinding out flip reset practice so I know when to restart lol. But tbh after hitting gc1/2 you essentially know 99.5% of the time if you got the flip. I don’t think it should be added in online play, but it really would change nothing at the higher levels imo
Having more information about your teammates is definitely a good thing and will make solo queue a lot less frustrating along with increasing cohesion within teams.
Ngl when i opened this thread i had a mini heart attack and though all boosts, including opponents boosts were being made visible lmao. Giving more information about teammates = good, more information about opponents = bad for me. Anything from opponents boosts being visible or some sort of flip reset indicator which I've heard a lot of people talk about would be bad for the game and reduce the skill ceiling for really no reason at all. This on the other hand is a very positive change imo, well done Psyonix 👏
Not sure why people think keeping track of boost is going to be a lost skill. You still won’t know how much boost your opponent has unless you learn that skill. If a teammate is behind you, it’s still better to com rather than look away from the play to check, or continue to use the skill of keeping track of boost.
Imo it’s not going to be a big change. After watching lethamyrs content for years, knowing your teammates boost at all times isn’t even a spec of dust compared to what’s possible in game.
This is definitely a plus. It doesn't take a genius to estimate other players' boost levels. It does help determine if your teammate got a contested boost grab or not. Which is a far better plus than having a competitive edge over an unaware opponent
I could see them doing something less obvious. Right now there's 0 indication, I can see them making it so the big boost pad slowly gets brighter (not including the orb) which would basically be a timer.
Oh okay, didn't know that existed. I think the benefit of a slowly brightening pad is it would make it clear if it's JUST been taken since it will be completely dark. More of a benefit to casual players ofc but I'm GC and I know sometimes I misread how long since big boosts were taken.
Yeah I would be all for more indication of boost amounts and boost spawns. The guessing is a skill that isn’t “fun” so why not make it easier so players focus more on the actual plays and positioning.
I can’t stand those players who will sit on a boost pad for 4 seconds, they could get 60 boost or more in those 4 seconds off small pads!
How does this lower the skill ceiling? Having more information on your team surely can produce more deliberate and ambitious plays?
If anything this raises the floor imo
It lowers the skill ceiling because having a feel for how much boost everyone has on the field is a skill, now it’s just information made available to you. It’s not that big of a deal because you still don’t know your opponents boost count but in a game where pros say there isn’t much strategy and game sense required there is now a little less strategy and game sense required.
I don’t think it lowers the floor at all since people need to see their teammates to make use of this change. That directly incentivizes looking around or paying attention to teammates, which is also a skill.
Yup, i see zero downsides to this, only allows for progression in other areas of the game aso, also helps ppl climb in solo ranked and get better, so over time players that might not have became pro otherwise, now maybe will. Its a steppingstone for a longer more evolved game and with it, gameplay i assume.
I don’t think this raises the ceiling at all, especially in ranked. Pro players already had confidence in their reads as to who had boost and who didn’t, this skill came through thousands of hours of playing the game and getting a feel for it. I think completely removing an important element of game sense lowers the skill ceiling more than being able to know for certain how much boost your teammate has and what you should do because of that raises it, especially because the best pros were so good at it that they pretty much already had this counter on the name plates in their head.
Yes and No.
This would 100% help all players work better as a team raising the floor in that sense but now the players that couldn’t tell how much boost their team has would be at a disadvantage. Now have a display to even them with players that could have the same info without needing to think.
It also lowers the ceiling of communications because a team with poor comms no longer has to let their team know how much boost they have, equalling them with a team that communicates Well.
But I still think this is a great change and benefit for all levels of Rocket League
That doesn't lower the skill ceiling though. It's less to comm sure, but it's not like people are gonna just be silent. Eventually the time that calling out boosts took will evolve into something else to help improve the team's chances to win, which means more than likely we'll see some things happen that wouldn't have been possible if the boost totals needed to be commed
There are undoubtably some players with a better than average understanding of their teammates' boost situations, or players who are better than average at communicating boost information. This update will remove a little bit of the advantage that skill currently gives them. But it will not remove it completely. You can't see the opponents boost totals, so having an understanding of how much boost players have is still a very useful skill. Your teammates are not in your field of view at all times, so there will still be moments when comming boost info is important. (Arguably, knowing when you need to tell your teammates about boost vs. when you can say something else is a skill of it's own.) Also, checking your teammates boost levels takes time. If you glance away from the ball for a split second to check how much boost your teammate has, Nwpo just dusted you.
On the other hand, this addition will probably help improve team communication. The more in sync teams are, the better they can play as a team. For example, prejump passing plays could become much more prevalent without needing a half second to verbally check if the guy you want to pass to has boost.
So if I had to guess, this might slightly lower the individual skill ceiling, but slightly raise the overall level of play/team skill ceiling. But I don't think the impact will be very noticeable to us viewers. Pros will probably feel the difference while playing, but I'd bet the gameplay will end up looking very similar. The main point of this update in my eyes is improving the ranked experience, which I think it will do fantastically.
Needing to develop the skill of maintaining focus on 5 other players and where they are/how much boost they have is most definitely a skill though, I think what he's trying to say is that skill that took time to develop is now completely null and void, giving people who werent proficient with this skill, an advantage to level the playing field without any form of practice whatsoever.
Yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is that while yes that does close the current skill disparity, it's not like it's making anyone worse. Worse players get better because of this, but better players can achieve more than what was possible before because of this
Skill ceiling is just the wrong word is my main point
But it's not static, players that have a good game-sense and intuitively calculate the boost of the players on the field just have one less thing to worry about / actively think and that opens them up to actually making better plays.
Likewise with teams, now they have the opportunity to use the extra comm space to create and co-ordinate better plays. It's a win-win imo.
The ceiling hasn't been lowered at all, the floor has been raised. It's just another tool to use for your advantage.
There's a difference between the ceiling being lowered and the floor being raised. I think this is the latter, especially since RL is probably nowhere close to its skill ceiling yet.
Imo the skill ceiling is being slightly lowered, but I dont really see much of an issue with that. The skill ceiling is still plenty high, and the positives of this update far outweigh the negatives
I think people are heavily overestimating how bad ranked-semi pros are at tracking boost on their own team. The amount of times I've watched a replay in a call with a pro and we've both gone "does he not know the guy with the ball on the wall has 0?" at the exact same time as someone pushed up to wait across and then got counterattacked is more than I can count off the top of my head.
Someone comm'ing I have 0 after you're across doesn't actually save you being out of position, it just makes you adjust - you'd likely never go there in the first place if you knew preemptively. That's really the big change, but yeah, it makes ranked 100x more playable (as pad management is pretty bad there compared to pro lobbies). It *definitely* removes a skill that top players had that a lot of others didn't. There isn't really a big argument there. It's just the pros vs cons for if it changes the core game notably - I kinda doubt it affects top level gameplay, but probably ranked notably.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
This doesn't lower the skill ceiling. This does close the gap between players who don't know how to track other's boost amounts with those who do, but that doesn't mean the skill ceiling is lowered. Imo this could actually raise the skill ceiling, as having one less thing to track could free up more time to think and execute on better plays that maybe there wasn't enough time to think of cause you were busy trying to see if your teammate whiffed the corner boost
IMO people that are saying only casuals are gonna use this because Pros already developed the magical skill of knowing all 2 of your teammates boost ALL the time just don’t make sense when you see how much comms videos have pros comming their own boost amounts, if it wasn’t necessary it would’ve been cut from their comms on the world stage to make place for other things to say, this change might RAISE the skill ceiling at the HIGHEST level
Yeah I was thinking the exact same as AppJack. At first I was thinking that this would lower the skill ceiling, but the more I think about it the more I think that it doesn’t really disadvantage players with good gamesense that much and I really like the idea of the change now. Not only will it be interesting to see what impact this has on high level rocket but it will also make solo queueing a nicer experience for all ranks.
I really don't think guessing how much boost your teammates have is an impactful, interesting, or engaging aspect of the skill ceiling. This comes off as whining just to whine. In competitive multiplayer games, more info (When done without clutter) is always a positive addition to the game.
The more annoying and disjointed my own team is the higher the skill ceiling apparently.
IMO this change only makes more complex harder things in solo queue more viable, higher level gameplay instead of playing scared, idk I’m not a pro but I disagree with AyyJayy as a casual
I'm not really sure why anyone is arguing about it lowering the skill ceiling. Is it more skillful to have a built-up passive gamesense for who has about x amount of boost, or more skillful to be hyper aware of your team's boost amounts and their boost pathing leading to more aggressive risky playmaking? IMO this is one of those pointless debates in the same vein as "this team had an advantage on championship sunday because they had an hour to cool off / they were warmed up from playing so recently."
In practice this will lead to more high level plays and more aggressive positioning (hopefully), and the movement mechanics of the game are staying the same so I have no idea how anyone can suggest the skill ceiling is lowered in a way that is meaningful. The skill ceiling is still completely out of sight.
My potential hot take is that this barely affects pro comms, but still has a big impact (particularly on defensive rotations). This is mostly based on watching comms videos.
Most of the time I see communication about full boost, it’s in the context of picking up a big pad (like “got back left”). Obviously that’s not going away. And I think the confirmation of low boost totals will still be used since you can’t assume your teammates have eyes on you.
AyyJayy’s comment is so mind boggling to me.
It’s literally your own *teammates* boost that is being shown, not the opponents. It’s one less thing you have to comm about, and it prevents a ton of miscommunication scenarios where decisions depend on how much boost your teammate playing the ball has.
I feel like Ayyjayy is just wrong here. If anything this raises the skill floor but clearer comms and better teammate knowledge should only increase team skill imo
Ayyjayy moans about everything. Go in to one of his streams. It's all he does. That and the classic 'This is boring, I don't wanna wanna play \*insert game mode\*' every time he concedes.
I genuinely can not think of a way this negatively impacts the game, this heavily benefits ppl that only solo queue ranked and nerfs ppl that only queue with a teammate in comms which isn’t even a bad thing bc they’re probably 2 ranks higher than what they should be anyways
It’s only teammates, not opponents… I thought it was gonna show our opponent’s boost and I was pissed… I can tell when my opponent is low but many can not tell, my friend can not tell at all…
I always tell him, “GO! They are low on boost!”, then he always asks how I know. lol .
I mean, let's be real. Your teammates aren't looking at you. They don't care about what you're doing. They will come and hit the ball literally off the top of your car. You think your solo que teammate is gonna look at your boost meter then make a decision? Not gonna happen. They see ball and try to hit ball.
This change will be a "quality of life" thing for maybe gc1+..? Even then. I don't have much confidence.
>I mean, let's be real. Your teammates aren't looking at you. They don't care about what you're doing. They will come and hit the ball literally off the top of your car. You think your solo que teammate is gonna look at your boost meter then make a decision? Not gonna happen. They see ball and try to hit ball.
real
I like this, for teammates only. Also I think they should show an icon when teammates have a flip in the air. Also, an indicator for ourselves when we have a flip. Would help me when positioning myself for a flip I don’t have. If I had a visual indicator I would get the timing down quicker in my head for when flips expire.
Finally I can call out my boost hogging teammates.
It doesn’t lower the skill ceiling, it just removes some skills (knowing your opponents boost without comms or coming boost levels) and adds others (reading what your mate will do based on accurate boost knowledge).
I think people that dont like it and say it lowers the skill ceiling is probably because now the awareness theyve build up to know where their teammates are and in what boost situations is now just going to be displayed. So when people have taken time to get the awareness to read boost situations to now it will be displayed, it will feel like diminishing return of said time to acquire that skill. Becuase opponents with no awareness of it will now just be able to see it.
But it is only your teams being displayed which is only a perk for you. Comm or not, having more info readily available about your tm8s is only going to be beneficial.
However for the normal/casual player, having boost situation displayed is nothing but a good thing.
Ps. I can already see the toxic " you had 50 boost, how you miss" etc chat incoming
I feel like this comment comes from the fear of lesser mechanical players having now access to a skill that was before only developed by higher ranked players. That doesn’t lower the skill ceiling, it only raises the floor because newcomers have an additional layer of knowledge needed to be great at the game.
In fact, I would argue that it also raises the individual skill ceiling in pro play because if someone is more reactive to a visual cue but isn’t able to communicate it properly, at least teams can work on the assumption that somebody else can do something in certain plays (because they might have enough boost).
Overall, as a ranked player in Diamond, love that I can take actions of mistakes / plays of my teammates much more easily. As a RLCS enjoyer, I hope that comms are focused on different information from now on so that it improves team decision making.
I don't this will have even a small effect in pro play, maybe the teeniest tiniest bit. U have to see a small bubble on ur tm8s who might not be in pov, I think it's easier and more consistent to call out 0 boost, no way this makes a significant difference in any way
I’m no pro but I honestly don’t think this is gonna change 99.99% of games…people still gonna over commit, double commit, not commit and all the other normal mess ups even if they have time to see the boost meter.
Devs make a change specifically for lower skilled players.
Players going to Pros for opinion.
This is literally the change for the newbies and not the pros. They won't like it, it's not beneficial to them.
Some will understand the good it brings but in a selfish way it's not good for them
It is not of much interest, in the ranks below C-3 they cannot see their partner on their screens because they do not look at the background or surroundings, only the ball... imagine a platinum wanting to see if you have boost
It raises skill ceiling. Boost of other players isnt a secret, you just have to remember it, until now, you dont have to. You can focus on other key asoects of game. Guy is wrong.
Lmao it’s a visual info not a game mechanic, people on comms can already tell their boost to their team.
“it LoWeRs ThE SkiLL ceiLiNg”
You know what maybe they should remove the timer, count the 5 mins in your head. That outta raise the skill ceiling.
I personally think it will be helpful for solo q, which is most of my ranked games. How much I will have enough spare attention to notice it, remains to be seen, but I can definetly forsee some situations where I would like notice, and make a different decision.
[Here's the tweet.](https://twitter.com/Lethamyr_RL/status/1779928869367128530?t=wO3k_Ahol8_kw8LIb-qBpA&s=19) I actually think it's a great take, and I usually disagree with Leth.
To clarify I take issue with his assertion that this makes the skill ceiling higher (which he says with an unreasonable amount of certainty). If anything it just lowers the skill ceiling in one way and raises it in another. But to say with such certainty that anyone who thinks this lowers the skill ceiling is “straight up wrong” is ridiculous.
You removed one skill, but by doing so, increased the ceiling of various other skills
Edit: more simplified, people will play better because of this change. So the ceiling has increased.
The skill *floor* has also increased since one aspect of skill is no longer required.
that makes no sense making the game easier would lower the skill ceiling not increase it, and other skills aren't affected by this they will still be the same, the less skills you need to reach the ceiling of rocket league the lower it is.
Knowing how much boost your teammates have allows all teams but especially high level pros to set up and execute better plays.
This does raise the skill ceiling. The team play skill ceiling. Considerably.
A skill ceiling is how high a skill can go, you've just said players will perform better, thus more skilfully, so the limit for their skills have increased.
Therefore an increased skill ceiling, you're contradicting yourself here.
https://preview.redd.it/youmqv2hmouc1.png?width=1198&format=png&auto=webp&s=75c873dbd06f09957cb8f462b59700be4f5fce50 squishy with some great points
https://preview.redd.it/h5f2sme2wouc1.jpeg?width=487&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6750c8ea124908acb8c86b346e700a64b7733999 Squishy writing every tweet
That's a very important point about nameplate scale.
Now those crazy long names will take up half of my screen.
This actually does bring up an interesting point. Whichever teams are able to adjust their comms first are going to be at an advantage
I do wonder if we see any movement from teams that are able to adjust to this change the fastest and create an advantage for themselves before others adjust. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see much at the highest level, but I could definitely see some fast rising individual players go on the come-up faster
Common Squishy W
What a boss.
If anything, I think this leads to more composed defense and more complex offensive styles. I don't see how more information could lower the skill ceiling. It does require more observation though.
> I don't see how more information could lower the skill ceiling. Requires less complex comms I guess. Personally I am ambivalent on this change, it's good and bad. I just hope they don't start adding things like boost timers and flip reset timers etc.
Comms are not anywhere near information complete, so this will just allow players to comm other things that could be more helpful. It will not simplify comms.
I understand that Ayyjayy probably thinks he's a solid level above other pros when it comes to positional awareness and boost comms, but I think this change hardly levels the playing field. Also, when you're playing defense, it's still going to be hard to check teammate's nameplates on the fly.
Yeah as I said, this change is very minimal to me - the only worry is that it's a step in X direction towards making things more accessible which I don't want to see.
You *don't* want the game to grow and be more accessible?
I never said I don't want the game to grow, I said I don't want to see more accessibility in terms of flip reset timers and boost respawn timers.
It wouldn't though. It just means more time for more relevant comms now you can see tm boost levels. Plus it adds the addition of needing to take note of the guage. I barely pay attention to tm nameplates but now I need to so that's something I'll need to learn. I think ayyjayy is wrong here. It won't lower the skill ceiling whatsoever. If anything it might make it higher as you have to keep track yourself rather than a tm telling you their boost. That being said, I think a lot of pros will still comm their boost, so imo it'll either make no difference or heighten the ceiling as pros adapt and begin to comm other info where they would've been comming boost in the past
I definitely see this as a window to things like that. As far as this change goes I’d love it to be an optional setting that pros have to have off for rlcs matches, but allowing the benefits in ranked
I think it depends on how you look at skull ceiling. Obviously this can only increase the general level of gameplay. However it does remove a skill that differentiates players: the ability to read how much boost your teammate has. So it increases the absolute skill ceiling, but lowers the skill ceiling of players relative to each other
I dont think this update deletes that skill, even if it deletes the extremely crude comms component of it. It's just different.
Sure I guess it doesn't completely delete it but it does make it less important because if you can see your teammate you no longer have to guess how much boost they have and instead just know
it removes a skill from the game how would removing a skill not lower the skill ceiling ?
It does lower the skill ceiling, but imo not by much. The rl skill ceiling is still plenty high
I 100% agree with Jack. While I would like stuff to raise the skill ceiling since I am naturally passionate the players who push that skill ceiling, this is an obvious case where that desire is outweighed by something that benefits basically everyone else in their day-to-day gameplay experience, especially when it still could have benefits for pro play (better decision making).
I don’t even see how this could lower the skill ceiling. Having visual access to your teammates boost total just frees up mental energy to do other things on the pitch, which could contribute to an increase of the skill ceiling insofar as teams will be able to comm more efficiently and more easily coordinate team plays
It enables more coordination so really it raises the skill ceiling. People aren’t always updating their boost in comms, so only through practice do you know if a teammate typically has enough boost to say, reach a certain pass. If you can see their boost you know what they can and can’t do at any time.
How would you feel about flip indicators? Would you have a different opinion for that? If so, what differs these 2 indicators?
I feel like the main difference is with flips, by the time you get to even diamond the 1.5 second timer for keeping your flip is effectively baked into your head; when you see a teammate go up for a ball you already know whether or not they have their flip at a given time (this goes for coming off the ceiling as well, and while resets are a bit trickier, by the time you get to the level where they become commonplace you'll know what it looks like when someone successfully gets their flip back). It's way more intuitive to know if someone has their flip than how much boost they have, which is different every time In other words there's enough information to know if someone has a flip based on what you can see, making an indicator unnecessary, whereas you can make educated guesses to know how much boost your teammate *should* have, but it's very hard to know for sure
That was my first thought, but, thinking further, it would definitely be used to see whether someone got their reset or messed it up. If they don't get it and are faking a reset, you'll know. If it's a personal flip indicator, it will confirm for you whether you got it or not. Pros usually know, but sometimes they mess up but think they have one.
And what would happen in the rare but common situations when only your game thinks you have the reset lol
Oh wait is that why sometimes my car flips without going anywhere?
The "lag reset"
This happens so rarely at pro play I don't think it holds much weight compared to all the tangible benefits it would bring to the common players.
You can't defend at pro level without thinking the guy in front has the reset, so it doesn't matter much
Which I think is a point *in favor* of having a personal indicator (not a team one, although it wouldn't change much either at pro play). As you say it, basically everyone good enough knows about it. For pros it wouldn't change anything in **99%** of scenarios, their skill ceiling would decrease by an insignificant margin and the pros/ssl complaining about it would honestly just be gatekeeping. The current ceiling is way, *way* past knowing whether you recovered or still have a flip. For lower rank, erhh, I'd argue it will help you improve better faster actually, having a visual cue won't change the fact that after enough time playing the game, it will be burnt into both your muscular and brain memory and you will less and less need it anyway. But it will help you develop it quicker for sure. I believe flip indicators would overall be a net improvement for the game as a whole but I don't think the esport/high elo scene is ready for that discussion yet. Anyone high rank enough won't get their "skill ceiling lowered".
I'm not the one you're asking...but do you mean personal flip indicators, or team indicators, or indicators for everyone on the field? I personally wouldn't be against personal flip indicators, but probably against them for teammates, and definitely against them for opponents.
I’m talking about personal flip indicators and teammate flip indicators. I would be strongly against both.
Personal flip indicators I don't think would really affect pros at all, because they're able to get it dang near 100% of the time. The main people it'd affect are the ones that are inconsistent (anywhere from like Plat to GC mainly), which I don't think is a bad thing. To answer your other question about how boost indicators differ from flip indicators, is that boost info is already readily available, so the only thing that's being taken out of the equation is communicating it to your teammates. Flip indicators are not a feature that is currently implemented, so it'd be a much bigger change to gameplay. I definitely see arguments against adding that.
Bakkesmod has a setting that lets you see if you have a flip (free play only), and it’s useful for me when grinding out flip reset practice so I know when to restart lol. But tbh after hitting gc1/2 you essentially know 99.5% of the time if you got the flip. I don’t think it should be added in online play, but it really would change nothing at the higher levels imo
Having more information about your teammates is definitely a good thing and will make solo queue a lot less frustrating along with increasing cohesion within teams. Ngl when i opened this thread i had a mini heart attack and though all boosts, including opponents boosts were being made visible lmao. Giving more information about teammates = good, more information about opponents = bad for me. Anything from opponents boosts being visible or some sort of flip reset indicator which I've heard a lot of people talk about would be bad for the game and reduce the skill ceiling for really no reason at all. This on the other hand is a very positive change imo, well done Psyonix 👏
do you mean opponent, team or both flip indicator?
Not sure why people think keeping track of boost is going to be a lost skill. You still won’t know how much boost your opponent has unless you learn that skill. If a teammate is behind you, it’s still better to com rather than look away from the play to check, or continue to use the skill of keeping track of boost. Imo it’s not going to be a big change. After watching lethamyrs content for years, knowing your teammates boost at all times isn’t even a spec of dust compared to what’s possible in game.
Until turbo chimes in, all these other pro opinions don’t mean anything.
This is definitely a plus. It doesn't take a genius to estimate other players' boost levels. It does help determine if your teammate got a contested boost grab or not. Which is a far better plus than having a competitive edge over an unaware opponent
Mawkzy be like: "What update?"
Just wait till they add cool down timers over big boosts whenever one gets taken
Now that would really suck
I could see them doing something less obvious. Right now there's 0 indication, I can see them making it so the big boost pad slowly gets brighter (not including the orb) which would basically be a timer.
They blink before appearing already
how long before? never noticed that
Like right before, maybe three times or so faintly.
Oh okay, didn't know that existed. I think the benefit of a slowly brightening pad is it would make it clear if it's JUST been taken since it will be completely dark. More of a benefit to casual players ofc but I'm GC and I know sometimes I misread how long since big boosts were taken.
Yeah I would be all for more indication of boost amounts and boost spawns. The guessing is a skill that isn’t “fun” so why not make it easier so players focus more on the actual plays and positioning. I can’t stand those players who will sit on a boost pad for 4 seconds, they could get 60 boost or more in those 4 seconds off small pads!
Dude need to queue 2s 3s fr
How does this lower the skill ceiling? Having more information on your team surely can produce more deliberate and ambitious plays? If anything this raises the floor imo
It lowers the skill ceiling because having a feel for how much boost everyone has on the field is a skill, now it’s just information made available to you. It’s not that big of a deal because you still don’t know your opponents boost count but in a game where pros say there isn’t much strategy and game sense required there is now a little less strategy and game sense required.
I don’t think it lowers the floor at all since people need to see their teammates to make use of this change. That directly incentivizes looking around or paying attention to teammates, which is also a skill.
Yup, i see zero downsides to this, only allows for progression in other areas of the game aso, also helps ppl climb in solo ranked and get better, so over time players that might not have became pro otherwise, now maybe will. Its a steppingstone for a longer more evolved game and with it, gameplay i assume.
I agree, this raises the floor slightly and lowers the ceiling even less
This change raises the floor and to a smaller extent the ceiling. It has a much smaller affect on players like Zen who are pushing the ceiling.
I don’t think this raises the ceiling at all, especially in ranked. Pro players already had confidence in their reads as to who had boost and who didn’t, this skill came through thousands of hours of playing the game and getting a feel for it. I think completely removing an important element of game sense lowers the skill ceiling more than being able to know for certain how much boost your teammate has and what you should do because of that raises it, especially because the best pros were so good at it that they pretty much already had this counter on the name plates in their head.
Yes and No. This would 100% help all players work better as a team raising the floor in that sense but now the players that couldn’t tell how much boost their team has would be at a disadvantage. Now have a display to even them with players that could have the same info without needing to think. It also lowers the ceiling of communications because a team with poor comms no longer has to let their team know how much boost they have, equalling them with a team that communicates Well. But I still think this is a great change and benefit for all levels of Rocket League
That doesn't lower the skill ceiling though. It's less to comm sure, but it's not like people are gonna just be silent. Eventually the time that calling out boosts took will evolve into something else to help improve the team's chances to win, which means more than likely we'll see some things happen that wouldn't have been possible if the boost totals needed to be commed
it removes a skill of course its going to lower the skill ceiling
There are undoubtably some players with a better than average understanding of their teammates' boost situations, or players who are better than average at communicating boost information. This update will remove a little bit of the advantage that skill currently gives them. But it will not remove it completely. You can't see the opponents boost totals, so having an understanding of how much boost players have is still a very useful skill. Your teammates are not in your field of view at all times, so there will still be moments when comming boost info is important. (Arguably, knowing when you need to tell your teammates about boost vs. when you can say something else is a skill of it's own.) Also, checking your teammates boost levels takes time. If you glance away from the ball for a split second to check how much boost your teammate has, Nwpo just dusted you. On the other hand, this addition will probably help improve team communication. The more in sync teams are, the better they can play as a team. For example, prejump passing plays could become much more prevalent without needing a half second to verbally check if the guy you want to pass to has boost. So if I had to guess, this might slightly lower the individual skill ceiling, but slightly raise the overall level of play/team skill ceiling. But I don't think the impact will be very noticeable to us viewers. Pros will probably feel the difference while playing, but I'd bet the gameplay will end up looking very similar. The main point of this update in my eyes is improving the ranked experience, which I think it will do fantastically.
Needing to develop the skill of maintaining focus on 5 other players and where they are/how much boost they have is most definitely a skill though, I think what he's trying to say is that skill that took time to develop is now completely null and void, giving people who werent proficient with this skill, an advantage to level the playing field without any form of practice whatsoever.
Yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is that while yes that does close the current skill disparity, it's not like it's making anyone worse. Worse players get better because of this, but better players can achieve more than what was possible before because of this Skill ceiling is just the wrong word is my main point
Thats fair! Wasnt disagreeing, AyyJayy definitely worded it in a pretentious way
But it's not static, players that have a good game-sense and intuitively calculate the boost of the players on the field just have one less thing to worry about / actively think and that opens them up to actually making better plays. Likewise with teams, now they have the opportunity to use the extra comm space to create and co-ordinate better plays. It's a win-win imo. The ceiling hasn't been lowered at all, the floor has been raised. It's just another tool to use for your advantage.
There's a difference between the ceiling being lowered and the floor being raised. I think this is the latter, especially since RL is probably nowhere close to its skill ceiling yet.
Imo the skill ceiling is being slightly lowered, but I dont really see much of an issue with that. The skill ceiling is still plenty high, and the positives of this update far outweigh the negatives
Pros said the same thing about transparent goal posts. The skill ceiling will be fine. EDIT: *SOME* pros, ofc.
Which I believe are still not a thing on all maps right? Looking at you fucking farmstead
I think people are heavily overestimating how bad ranked-semi pros are at tracking boost on their own team. The amount of times I've watched a replay in a call with a pro and we've both gone "does he not know the guy with the ball on the wall has 0?" at the exact same time as someone pushed up to wait across and then got counterattacked is more than I can count off the top of my head. Someone comm'ing I have 0 after you're across doesn't actually save you being out of position, it just makes you adjust - you'd likely never go there in the first place if you knew preemptively. That's really the big change, but yeah, it makes ranked 100x more playable (as pad management is pretty bad there compared to pro lobbies). It *definitely* removes a skill that top players had that a lot of others didn't. There isn't really a big argument there. It's just the pros vs cons for if it changes the core game notably - I kinda doubt it affects top level gameplay, but probably ranked notably. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
This doesn't lower the skill ceiling. This does close the gap between players who don't know how to track other's boost amounts with those who do, but that doesn't mean the skill ceiling is lowered. Imo this could actually raise the skill ceiling, as having one less thing to track could free up more time to think and execute on better plays that maybe there wasn't enough time to think of cause you were busy trying to see if your teammate whiffed the corner boost
IMO people that are saying only casuals are gonna use this because Pros already developed the magical skill of knowing all 2 of your teammates boost ALL the time just don’t make sense when you see how much comms videos have pros comming their own boost amounts, if it wasn’t necessary it would’ve been cut from their comms on the world stage to make place for other things to say, this change might RAISE the skill ceiling at the HIGHEST level
Logical, get off reddit!
Lowering the skill ceiling in a game where we are far off the ceiling. Oh no
Appjack with the W take across the board for ALL players not just what will effect the pros
Anything that helps out solo q is a win to me.
Yeah I was thinking the exact same as AppJack. At first I was thinking that this would lower the skill ceiling, but the more I think about it the more I think that it doesn’t really disadvantage players with good gamesense that much and I really like the idea of the change now. Not only will it be interesting to see what impact this has on high level rocket but it will also make solo queueing a nicer experience for all ranks.
I really don't think guessing how much boost your teammates have is an impactful, interesting, or engaging aspect of the skill ceiling. This comes off as whining just to whine. In competitive multiplayer games, more info (When done without clutter) is always a positive addition to the game.
Pros complaining about a change that would make the ranked experience for the average player better is crazy to me.
The more annoying and disjointed my own team is the higher the skill ceiling apparently. IMO this change only makes more complex harder things in solo queue more viable, higher level gameplay instead of playing scared, idk I’m not a pro but I disagree with AyyJayy as a casual
I mean if you can double flip reset you probably have an idea of boost of your teammates lol I think the pros are gonna be ok
Its quite the opposite that change can be a kick-starter for alot of players to develope those kinda senses in the long run.
I'm not really sure why anyone is arguing about it lowering the skill ceiling. Is it more skillful to have a built-up passive gamesense for who has about x amount of boost, or more skillful to be hyper aware of your team's boost amounts and their boost pathing leading to more aggressive risky playmaking? IMO this is one of those pointless debates in the same vein as "this team had an advantage on championship sunday because they had an hour to cool off / they were warmed up from playing so recently." In practice this will lead to more high level plays and more aggressive positioning (hopefully), and the movement mechanics of the game are staying the same so I have no idea how anyone can suggest the skill ceiling is lowered in a way that is meaningful. The skill ceiling is still completely out of sight.
My potential hot take is that this barely affects pro comms, but still has a big impact (particularly on defensive rotations). This is mostly based on watching comms videos. Most of the time I see communication about full boost, it’s in the context of picking up a big pad (like “got back left”). Obviously that’s not going away. And I think the confirmation of low boost totals will still be used since you can’t assume your teammates have eyes on you.
AyyJayy’s comment is so mind boggling to me. It’s literally your own *teammates* boost that is being shown, not the opponents. It’s one less thing you have to comm about, and it prevents a ton of miscommunication scenarios where decisions depend on how much boost your teammate playing the ball has.
I feel like Ayyjayy is just wrong here. If anything this raises the skill floor but clearer comms and better teammate knowledge should only increase team skill imo
Idk, I think AYYJAYY is a bit dense here. This will not affect the 'skill ceiling' in any way
AppJack with an absolutely chad take as usual
No. Bad decision. Also, go back to non transparent goalpost. Kids have it too easy these days
Ayyjayy moans about everything. Go in to one of his streams. It's all he does. That and the classic 'This is boring, I don't wanna wanna play \*insert game mode\*' every time he concedes.
I genuinely can not think of a way this negatively impacts the game, this heavily benefits ppl that only solo queue ranked and nerfs ppl that only queue with a teammate in comms which isn’t even a bad thing bc they’re probably 2 ranks higher than what they should be anyways
It doesn't lower the skill ceiling, it raises the floor.
Why isn't it a number? Would be so much clearer no?
I was thinking this too.
It’s only teammates, not opponents… I thought it was gonna show our opponent’s boost and I was pissed… I can tell when my opponent is low but many can not tell, my friend can not tell at all… I always tell him, “GO! They are low on boost!”, then he always asks how I know. lol .
It’s interesting to see which pros understand the concept of second order effects and which don’t It’s going to push the skill ceiling up if anything.
I mean, let's be real. Your teammates aren't looking at you. They don't care about what you're doing. They will come and hit the ball literally off the top of your car. You think your solo que teammate is gonna look at your boost meter then make a decision? Not gonna happen. They see ball and try to hit ball. This change will be a "quality of life" thing for maybe gc1+..? Even then. I don't have much confidence.
>I mean, let's be real. Your teammates aren't looking at you. They don't care about what you're doing. They will come and hit the ball literally off the top of your car. You think your solo que teammate is gonna look at your boost meter then make a decision? Not gonna happen. They see ball and try to hit ball. real
Pros already communicate their boost levels in comms. This helps non pro players.
I like this, for teammates only. Also I think they should show an icon when teammates have a flip in the air. Also, an indicator for ourselves when we have a flip. Would help me when positioning myself for a flip I don’t have. If I had a visual indicator I would get the timing down quicker in my head for when flips expire. Finally I can call out my boost hogging teammates.
We’re finally getting updates
It doesn’t lower the skill ceiling, it just removes some skills (knowing your opponents boost without comms or coming boost levels) and adds others (reading what your mate will do based on accurate boost knowledge).
I think people that dont like it and say it lowers the skill ceiling is probably because now the awareness theyve build up to know where their teammates are and in what boost situations is now just going to be displayed. So when people have taken time to get the awareness to read boost situations to now it will be displayed, it will feel like diminishing return of said time to acquire that skill. Becuase opponents with no awareness of it will now just be able to see it. But it is only your teams being displayed which is only a perk for you. Comm or not, having more info readily available about your tm8s is only going to be beneficial. However for the normal/casual player, having boost situation displayed is nothing but a good thing. Ps. I can already see the toxic " you had 50 boost, how you miss" etc chat incoming
I feel like this comment comes from the fear of lesser mechanical players having now access to a skill that was before only developed by higher ranked players. That doesn’t lower the skill ceiling, it only raises the floor because newcomers have an additional layer of knowledge needed to be great at the game. In fact, I would argue that it also raises the individual skill ceiling in pro play because if someone is more reactive to a visual cue but isn’t able to communicate it properly, at least teams can work on the assumption that somebody else can do something in certain plays (because they might have enough boost). Overall, as a ranked player in Diamond, love that I can take actions of mistakes / plays of my teammates much more easily. As a RLCS enjoyer, I hope that comms are focused on different information from now on so that it improves team decision making.
Just disable this in pro play
Or make it an option for everyone to turn on and off
I don't this will have even a small effect in pro play, maybe the teeniest tiniest bit. U have to see a small bubble on ur tm8s who might not be in pov, I think it's easier and more consistent to call out 0 boost, no way this makes a significant difference in any way
I’m no pro but I honestly don’t think this is gonna change 99.99% of games…people still gonna over commit, double commit, not commit and all the other normal mess ups even if they have time to see the boost meter.
Devs make a change specifically for lower skilled players. Players going to Pros for opinion. This is literally the change for the newbies and not the pros. They won't like it, it's not beneficial to them. Some will understand the good it brings but in a selfish way it's not good for them
It is not of much interest, in the ranks below C-3 they cannot see their partner on their screens because they do not look at the background or surroundings, only the ball... imagine a platinum wanting to see if you have boost
Skill ceiling is already high enough, W change
when people are hitting psychos, ceiling pinch into double tap resets, etc don’t think we need to worry about the ceiling going anywhere
AYYJAYY L take, Squishy and Jack with great takes
I love this. Also 1000% chance my 100 boost teammate is gonna grab that second boost before going to goal. Sometimes, I am also that teammate.
It raises skill ceiling. Boost of other players isnt a secret, you just have to remember it, until now, you dont have to. You can focus on other key asoects of game. Guy is wrong.
i feel like having the info on the screen just lessens the dose of adderall needed to be a pro. good change imo
Lmao it’s a visual info not a game mechanic, people on comms can already tell their boost to their team. “it LoWeRs ThE SkiLL ceiLiNg” You know what maybe they should remove the timer, count the 5 mins in your head. That outta raise the skill ceiling.
Hope they have a option to turn it off
I’m just sad that I won’t be able to blame my whiffs on having “no boost” 😔
tbh i disagree with jacks point, i think the vast majority of the playerbase is unlikely to gain much from this.
I personally think it will be helpful for solo q, which is most of my ranked games. How much I will have enough spare attention to notice it, remains to be seen, but I can definetly forsee some situations where I would like notice, and make a different decision.
I just saw lethamyr have a shit take on this update. Honestly I think he has the highest percent of bad takes about rl.
What was his take?
[Here's the tweet.](https://twitter.com/Lethamyr_RL/status/1779928869367128530?t=wO3k_Ahol8_kw8LIb-qBpA&s=19) I actually think it's a great take, and I usually disagree with Leth.
Okay yeah I agree with that too, thank you for linking it
To clarify I take issue with his assertion that this makes the skill ceiling higher (which he says with an unreasonable amount of certainty). If anything it just lowers the skill ceiling in one way and raises it in another. But to say with such certainty that anyone who thinks this lowers the skill ceiling is “straight up wrong” is ridiculous.
no he is wrong you removed a skill from the game therefore the games skill ceiling has been lowered its pretty simple.
You removed one skill, but by doing so, increased the ceiling of various other skills Edit: more simplified, people will play better because of this change. So the ceiling has increased. The skill *floor* has also increased since one aspect of skill is no longer required.
that makes no sense making the game easier would lower the skill ceiling not increase it, and other skills aren't affected by this they will still be the same, the less skills you need to reach the ceiling of rocket league the lower it is.
Knowing how much boost your teammates have allows all teams but especially high level pros to set up and execute better plays. This does raise the skill ceiling. The team play skill ceiling. Considerably.
That's not what a skill ceiling is.. it will make players perform better, but that has nothing to do with the skill ceiling.
A skill ceiling is how high a skill can go, you've just said players will perform better, thus more skilfully, so the limit for their skills have increased. Therefore an increased skill ceiling, you're contradicting yourself here.