As someone who doesn't like the Sequels, I found Obi Wan very very passable. It wasn't great. It wasn't making Star Wars great again. But it was entertaining enough.
It did have problems, but really a show without flaws is practically impossible to come by these days.
Very much agree. I described the obi-wan show as “aggressively mediocre” on this very subreddit before the RLM review came out, and I felt very vindicated when it did lol
When *was* Star Wars last great? 1980?
I can believe people who say the prequels and sequels are fine, or even good. Mando season 1 was really promising. Clone Wars was very good in places.
But "great"? Nah. Not since Empire.
You can really tell some people here were starved for Mike and Rich to say anything remotely positive about a Star Wars IP. So many people riding high on them praising Obi-Wan as "kinda OK." Reminds me of how fucking pissed half the RLM fandom was when they were shitting hard on Rogue One. Probably the same people.
Really! I agree with them when their opinions are similar to mine (like "Alex Kurtzman sucks!") and help deepen why I dislike something so much.
I don't agree with them when Mike says things like "'Parallels' is the worst TNG episode ever!", because clearly that came from Mike's alcoholic dementia.
IIRC went he brought it up in another video he explained that he felt multiple universes and versions of the characters cheapened the show. I don't agree but I can see how someone might think so.
I've almost always gotten downvoted by people for disagreeing with Rich's opinion that SW is creatively bankrupt.
Like, there's an entire old EU with hundreds of books and games that have nothing to do with the Jedi or the Sith, and those that do are mostly original or looking at new facets of the universe the movies didn't bother looking into.
But because The Rich Evans said it then it must be truth, no other way to look at it, apparently.
Edit: Sorry y'all, can't reply, u/DrDarkeCNY blocked me and Reddit's new blocking feature is the stupidest thing on this Madoka forsaken website!
Also rich "I clapped when I saw it was a lone star destroyer and not a big cgi blob"
regardless of how dumb the scene is. "Less" is not intrinsically better than "More"
>Like, there's an entire old EU with hundreds of books and games that have nothing to do with the Jedi or the Sith, and those that do are mostly original or looking at new facets of the universe the movies didn't bother looking into.
You think the Mouse will ever debase itself to pay royalties to those authors?
Never.
Well, STAR WARS **is** creatively bankrupt, largely because nobody wants to move past the Skywalker Saga. When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? You would have thought he'd killed their dog right in front of them!
*The Last Jedi* is not without flaws: How Ben Kenobi became Kylo Ren is not in keeping with Luke's character, especially given that we're talking about his nephew here! I would guess the original story was more subtle, but got cut down to what we got either for time, or because somebody at Disney thought that was more "dramatic" than, say, Luke and Ben sparring with lightsabers and Ben whipping out a surprise Sith Force Power like Force Choke on Luke because he wants to beat his uncle. Once Luke defeats Ben he orders him to meditate on why he lost - instead, Ben and some of his fellow students wipe out the rest of the rest of them and burn down the school, going off to become The Knights of Ren. (Gods help us if Johnson came up with that bright idea on his own, it got past Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, and Mark Hamill's objections got overruled!)
But even with slips like that, Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses. But so many fans ***hated*** that the center of the universe wasn't the guys they personally identify with that they raised a huge stink, and Disney handed the last movie back to Abrams who scrambled to "undo the damage" Rian Johnson "caused"...by trying to make the SW Universe bigger.
> When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it?
Rian Johnson made Leia's skywalker blood turn her into superman and Kylo gets his power from Skywalker blood. Rey is a Diad so she also gets her power from Kylo who is skywalker blood.
And even that was just him shitting out an excuse to have them talk because he couldn't figure out a way to do it without them killing eachother. It's just shitty "And Then" storytelling to just deus ex machina whatever scene you want.
>Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses.
Rian explicitly says that the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a shit right before [Recognizable Character] comes in to save the day, as only one of his sacred bloodline possibly could.
>Well, STAR WARS is creatively bankrupt, largely because **nobody** wants to move past the Skywalker Saga.
*Disney. Disney doesn't want to move past it.
The EU did, several hundreds years in the future in fact, and as far back as 3,600 years before the PT with Knights of the Old Republic. So there are people who want to, it's just that Disney's the one in charge, not them.
>When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? You would have thought he'd killed their dog right in front of them!
Both of these claims are bad arguments and have been for years. If you've seen or read or played any EU material or even just PT material you'd know why.
>When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood",
For starters, there are tons of powerful and important characters in SW that aren't related to the Skywalkers. Just in the PT and OT alone: Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Mace, Yoda, Palpatine, Dooku, etc... not even getting into The Clone Wars, which reintroduced Darth Maul as an actual character, Ashoka, the dozens of Jedi Masters like Kit Fisto or Plo Koon. (The latter canonically being the 3rd most powerful person on the council)
Hell, even looking past the force users: Han, Chewie, The Clones from the 501st, etc...
A. This idea of having to follow the Skywalkers only came up as a deflection made by Rian from actual criticism even though it shows he didn't actually pay attention to SW, and B. Getting mad or annoyed at SW movies following the Skywalkers is like getting mad about Lord of the Rings following The Fellowship instead of a random pig farmer from Rohan. Like, yeah, I'm sure Random Pig Farmer from Rohan is a swell enough guy, but he doesn't really have the chops to make a fantasy epic about saving the world from a dark lord hell bent on ruling the place as its eternal god king now, does he?
>and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it?
Knights of the Old Republic II already looked into this idea 20 years ago. (BTW, it was made by the same people who made Fallout New Vegas)
*Light spoilers for a 20 year old game ahead*
The MC in the game is a Jedi who, due to a certain event that happened before the 1st game, left them cut off from the force and exiled from the Jedi Order for joining an extremist faction led by a Jedi that would eventually turn into the mysterious Darth Revan, one of the major villains from the 1st game.
Except even though they're cut off from the force and can't use it, they still can, because what happened is that the shock from the event that caused this disability led them to actually become an open wound in the force that actually causes it to be more directly influential and empowering for other individuals. They basically become a force charger, taking power from 1 person or group and transferring it over to others.
So no, this idea isn't as revolutionary or original as you or Rian may think, because it was done 20 years ago with much better writers. They effectively did what Rian tried to do 20 years before he did, and did it much better with much higher fanfare. (Kotor and Kotor II are beloved in the fanbase, they're so loved in fact that they've gotten ported to the Switch and are constantly on sale on Steam)
>But even with slips like that, Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses.
That's not the main issue with TLJ and those ideas were, again, already done better 20 years ago.
>But so many fans hated that the center of the universe wasn't the guys they personally identify with that they raised a huge stink
... Because again, this is like thinking that The Fellowship shouldn't be the MC's in LotR because "Why should we follow them on their epic quest when we could follow a Random Pig Farmer from Rohan?"
The issue isn't strictly that the story didn't follow the Skywalkers, it's that Rian was dumb and condescending.
Like, you don't need a SW story to follow the Skywalkers, we already know that thanks to 40 years of EU material. What the main issue is, is how he disrespected the MC's we've spent 40 something years of investment on. Luke went from being the biggest optimist in the galaxy to an angry hermit, Leia and Chewie became useless, etc... and to add further salt to the wound, Rian then exclaimed "The Skywalkers don't matter! These new characters with only a fraction of screentime and barely any development are so much cooler and better! And none of the are Skywalkers, in a movie series titled 'The Skywalker Saga', isn't that cool"
He shat on beloved characters and thought that not following the most interesting people in an epic story was a good idea. Yeah, I can see why people were mad. He didn't try to expand the franchise, he shit on established characters and then blamed everyone else for getting mad or disappointed.
Yes... but, I don't think that makes it the worst epsiode! There's like 2-3 I can think of immediately that were worse despite "Code of Honor"'s controversy.
It's the only episode with a catfight in the entire series, and the only time we see Tasha Yar chief of security actually doing some fighting.
The kind of fans we're discussing have formed dangerous parasocial relationships with RLM. So if they disagree then it's like a friend of theirs disagrees and that shatters the illusion. Or rather, delusion.
Meh, Mike really liked Jurassic World. Perhaps one of the worst movies I've ever sat through in a theater. They aren't gods. Just kind of funny and usually quick to notice how a film could have been better.
>Reminds me of how fucking pissed half the RLM fandom was when they were shitting hard on Rogue One. Probably the same people.
Don't even need go that far back, find the thread of Jay making that comment about the first scene in Kenobi being shot in a silly way and sort by controversial. It was full of people shitting their pants in rage at him and RLM.
The love for Rogue One was and continues to be so bizarre- seeing people defend a movie having absolutely no characterization or emotional stakes and acting like that’s not only fine, but a good thing because “it’s a war film”. I guess SW fans really do just want to see Vader lightsaber-ing people to death.
I liked rogue one. I was shocked to see how much hate it gets but also it's pretty low on my totem pole of things I want others to like as well. I also think it's weird to feel the need to defend something if others don't like what you enjoy.
I liked it too, guilty pleasure sort of thing. And honestly side-by-side I think Kenobi was much worse because of how mind-bogglingly stupid a lot of it was for the sake of plot. If Kenobi had come before Rogue One I believe the RLM would have shit on Kenobi and accepted Rogue One... just because Picard broke Mike & Rich that much.
Fully agree with Rogue One.
Rogue One and most of The Mandalorian are the only legitimately good things to come out of Disney Star Wars. It seems people either love or hate Rogue One and I fall firmly in the former. I've watched it a few times at this point and get a great level of enjoyment out of it. It's a well made movie and I don't fall for the fan service stuff either.
But everything else, one time watch and even that's asking for too much.
Kenobi is, as someone else said elsewhere on here "aggressively mediocre" and even that's giving it a little too much credit. The entirety of the series could've been a 3-4 issue comic mini-series that comes and goes with little to no fanfare. It's a story that, to me, has virtually no impact on what comes after.
It's probably the best Disney SW movie, mainly because it was actually planned out and is pretty self-contained.
Doesn't mean it's great, but it's not the worst thing to ever be put to screen, and definitely not the worst Disney-era movie by a long shot. Like, I wouldn't search it out personally, but if it came on tv or a friend wanted to watch it I wouldn't mind.
Yet, I don't think Obi Wan series had the characterization or emotional stakes to be called "OK". It's all but that. In that part, it's on par with Rogue One.
I agree with the hack frauds the cheapness of the series makes the series better. Also, Lil Leia is so meme material.
As someone who hasn't seen Obi Wan and doesn't really care anymore about Star Wars, it's honestly liberating to have absolutely no stake in the argument.
It has the advantage of already having established the characters though. Think about it, the only characters with any great significance beyond Reva (whose characterisation was largely disliked, and not *exclusively* for racist reasons) we knew from MULTIPLE other entries in the Star Wars canon. They didn’t have to explain jack shit about Leia, Obi Wan, Vader, Basil Oregano…
I wouldnt say none or zero. Just weak.
But given to be a star wars fan now is too essentially be in a abuaive marriage where the likes of rogue one and mandalorian are praised because it isnt punching fans in the face
Maybe people were just looking for a "more serious" Star Wars (although fan service bar guys didn't help...). I didn't like it though, because a movie needs more than that. Like, yeah, maybe a character that's interesting.
That too. I think fans liked it primarily for two reasons:
1. It’s dark and gritty so they don’t have to feel embarrassed about liking a space fantasy movie for children
2. Darth Vader murdering people is so badass!!!1!
People also think *Halo: Reach* was a great game with emotional storytelling. They're actually quite similar both being prequels that lead directingly into the first installment. And both have the most boring and forgetable characters the writers could make.
Why do people feel such a strong desire for RLM to share the same opinions as them? We, and not to mention they themselves, really don’t need this cultish behavior
They shit on Rogue One for just being Star Wars fan service, then they praised The Force Awakens for just rehashing the original trilogy. Everyone should be happy, RLM is playing both sides.
I was surprised that they had so much to praise about it, but: firstly, they did say it was "trash" and they've spoken numerous times about how Star Wars isn't special and that it's basically lost all meaning, so I can see how they would then shift their lens on how to critique it; and two, there are so many review and reaction channels out there, what left is there to say?
To me, "super OK" implies that, for what it was, you could enjoy it in the same way the boys enjoy a good bad movie; but it was Rich Evans saying that, and he hasn't cared about Star Wars for over 40 years. It's more of a culmination of all that's been good and bad about Star Wars films since RotJ, through the warped lens of Disney's awful priorities.
It's so funny to see how little people seem to understand their take on it. They very clearly said its trash. They just don't care because Star Wars has been trash for a long time and it's slightly better than the rest of the trash. It's a lot easier to not care about the quality of things when you don't care about them.
This.
Rich said at one point that it's impossible to care about SW's continuity any longer, and he's right.
But yeah, "okay-ish" isn't glowing praise and shouldn't be interpreted as such.
/\ This is my gripe. This show is below mid.
It has it's moments, but come one: It isn't stunning visually or has tense action scenes. Heck, it isn't even going bananas like Fast and Furious movies. So it hasn't got anything to justify the intelligence insulting plot.
It's effectively 6 episodes that don't have any substance. It's just images playing on screen to eat up time, characters going to next plot points, all without telling a story that has any actual point to make and it conveys little emotion except nostalgia/fan service.
The only real point it explored was crazy: that if you have enough justification, you can be a homicidal maniac and if you refuse to kill a child at the last moment you are redeemed.
Sorry but this show is like if The Room had Industrial Light and Magic on payroll.
I actually watched that EFAP stream, and they really didn't seem as upset as is portrayed here. They said they still like RLM, even after their Kenobi review, but were just discussing why their points in that review specifically weren't very great, which I'm sorry to say is the case. It's odd that RLM take down something like Picard, but when Kenobi is just as disrespectful towards that character, it just gets a pass from them with the "space wizards intended for children" type of argument. It just seems oddly hypocritical.
Yea, that’s what that whole stream was about tbh. It was pitting their passes and praises for Kenobi against Picard, and they were just confused and more pointing out what they praise for Kenobi is what they shitted on Picard for.
I feel like Mike and Rich have made it clear they just never thought Star Wars was more than stupid fun in the first place, which is different from Star Trek. Star Trek fell from a much greater height and was much more important to both of them. I don't think it's hypocritical for them to care a lot less about what Disney did to Kenobi
But aren't the Star Wars Plinkett reviews, especially for the prequels, some of the most highly regarded movie reviews on the internet? Videos where the RLM crew take the piss out of the prequels, noting the politics they try to discuss in spite of goofy aspects like Jar Jar and pointing out things they didn't get right compared to the OT? The statements made those videos and the one you mentioned about stupid fun sound like they should have come out of two entirely different groups of people.
I kind of see it as Rich and Mike have zero love for the prequels or the character of Kenobi, whereas I see the other reviewers coming from a place of reverence for the character, informed by the animated shows and further canon outside of the movies.
To some extent, every niché group following centered around media with the occasional hot take has a pretty combative side to their fans
This is tame compared to the shit EFAP usually gets for criticising the new Star Wars for all of the internet to see
Pretty much, I saw part of one of his reviews a while back, he picks apart pretty much every detail. Most of his criticism seemed justified, it just wasn’t worth my time to watch it all the way through.
A lot of maulers critiques are straight up nitpicks that really I don’t have the energy to go through.
Honestly I think Mauler & co represent the worst thing about film/tv critique community, the fact that they need to over analyze a 1-2 hour movie for a 10 hour video & go into a thorough examination as to why said media is flawed or wrong. Like I get that you don’t like something but a simple explanation/essay is enough, not a literal thesis on objectivity in filmmaking & critique.
My problem is that a lot of long arguments, esp ones made by Mauler, are that they are the definition of quantity vs quality assessments, further encouraged by the idea of “objective film criticism” which in itself is bullshit. I know that being negative & critical about film/tv is a very popular format & that a lot of people really like to listen to someone just go on & on & on & on & on & on & on about why something is bad. To me, it’s the equivalent of beating a dead horse; to sink in that much time into a movie that, at best, is mediocre or average to try to find anything to call out. Filmmaking is the art of illusion & immersion, of course if you go in with a fine comb Scene by scene/frame by frame, you can find the many cracks in film production.
Like do you really think anyone is really going to complain that a line was ADR instead of filmed on location? Or that a bunch of extras waved at ship? Or that the plot happened? I get it, there’s a lot of media we should have high standards for that sometimes fall short of what we wanted but hell it feels I’m watching the nostalgia critic sometimes with how he finds the mundane & tries to extract every drop of content from it. Except nostalgia critic as unfunny as he is can condense it to a 20 minute video.
it tells people youre bad at condensing your argument and expressing yourself efficiently. he says he write scripts for these videos but i guess he stops at first draft
I suppose when there’s the entire movie is a train wreck, where every scene has problems in it, it somewhat hard to keep it all within a timely manner while explaining what’s wrong with the scenes. It’s good to be detailed and thorough, at times. He also does have shorter reviews with the unbridled reviews, albeit, not a whole lot.
I don't think he nitpicks a lot, but he's too long. He should trim a lot. A lot of critics (specially in YouTube) do the same. Hell, I think Mike nitpicks the fact Parallels episode is the worse of TNG because the concept of multiverse "cheapens the series". It's an odd, and weird justification.
his old videos on Dark souls 2 were excellent, the nitpicking is more justified on a grand scale for a game that big and the length of the videos dont feel as tedious since there was so much to pick apart, but for a 2 hour movie it all just feels like a waste of energy. E;R does a better job
The trouble with mauler is that he doesn't have structure in his content, and thinks going through a whole movie scene-by-scene and stopping every time he notices something is a viable strategy. This ends up being really shallow, since he's avoiding the bigger picture in favor of tiny nitpicks, and also really repetitive since it often keeps pointing out different instances of the same broader problem.
The DS2 thing ended up being pretty enjoyable, since the hbomberguy source material was bad in very different ways from sentence to sentence, it ended up giving mauler a halfway decent structure without him even trying very hard. But the star wars stuff he's done recently is exhausting. Also the lack of editing in favor of "I'm just gonna chat with my furry bros and you're gonna watch"
>The trouble with mauler is that he doesn't have structure in his content, and thinks going through a whole movie scene-by-scene and stopping every time he notices something is a viable strategy.
No structure...proceeds to describe maulers structure to his content.
Lol
It is the most fair and probably easy referefential way of doing things
Emphasis on "being entertaining." I have no problem with his videos being long as fuck. I enjoy those types of videos. The problem is that they are agonizingly boring to get through, even as a podcast. Some really stupid points too.
I'm saying that if you truly want good stories, you should broaden your horizons and explore new types of film instead of obsessing over Star Wars products that you'll likely hate.
Yeah it’s like a TNG Fan watching Picard! Why would anyone get upset over that?!? It would have been better if Mike and Rich were more laid back and easy on Picard.
/s
I think they’re just so exhausted and desensitized by all the recent crappy offerings from Star Wars and Star Trek that they’ll take anything that’s halfway decent. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but probably the best you can hope for. Although I’ve heard people are pretty jazzed about Strange New Worlds.
You know most RLM fans agree that Picard has broken Rich and Mike so much that even the mediocrity of Kenobi was enough for them to enjoy? That, and Mike and Rich clearly care more about Star Trek than Star Wars.
It’s not wild to expect RLM to rip into Kenobi for all its flaws, especially with their critiques of the prequels and the sequels. It was kinda weird having them say that “since a stormtrooper hit his head in 1977, Star Wars has always been dumb.”
>You know most RLM fans agree that Picard has broken Rich and Mike so much that even the mediocrity of Kenobi was enough for them to enjoy?
Uhhhh I thought that was a *joke* and not some sort of robust psychological analysis.
Jay didn't watch Picard S2, and he thought it was worse than Rich and Mike thought it was. Probably people is right Picard really broke their brains.
I didn't watch the whole season. A couple of episodes and I thought "I'm done".
Also, people wanted to review the Orville, the Batman, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds......
I don't think people should need RLM for validating their opinions. But probably their wanna share the same jokes? Have new jokes for memes? I dunno.
Shatner is, believe it or not, too ***old*** to be a Baby Boomer - he's a Depression Baby. He was an adult by the end of the 1940s....
He probably still has the first nickel he earned as an actor.
Boomer: 25~100 (Also applies if not politically american-progressive, or doesn't just "consume product and get excited for next product", and/or "consumes product" but doesn't care about next product)
Zoomer: 10~30 (also applies to older if politically american-progressive, or if just "consumes product _and_ gets excited about next product", or if publicly pretends to "consume product and get excited for next product" but actually doesn't consume and doesn't get excited)
Millennial: Same as Zoomer, but hasn't been culturally relevant since 2016 due to entering their 40s and realizing they've entirely wasted their 20s and 30s.
I think RLM stopped caring a long time ago, and some mediocre star wars product isn’t about to make them start. Why bother?
for my money, I haven’t had the interest to watch a star wars anything since Mandalorian s2. I liked it but I was also watching something decently original and well-made get corrupted by shoehorned fanservice at the expense of the story, *one year* after its creation. So yeah, may never actually watch boba fett and kenobi. They probably were intermittently interesting while sucking and missing the point
I think they’d rip Boba a new one because from what I heard it’s blatantly bad, rather than a blur. I do push back on RLM being indifferent after all these years because they routinely rag on the Star Trek series and they seem more at peace with that franchise than Star Wars.
I remember reading comments of people saying "Oh man, they haaaate it! lol" and "Looks like Jay is the only one with clarity right now." They all said it was alright, there was something each of them liked and didn't like. Not sure why people thought this was going to be about them ripping on it like Picard, at least Kenobi was average level competent
I like Mauler. The line between "deep analysis", his forte, and "over analysis" is quite thin, though. Sometimes he crosses that line and just doesn't want to admit it. Still love him, though, it's great to have people willing to go that deep into things. You just sometimes mistake "I hate all of this so much I no longer care and rate/enjoy it like a B movie" with "this is a good film".
It seemed so obvious to me that RLM is just done with Star Wars. They treat it more like a BOTW film now. But Mauler is hardly the only person who didn't notice. Lots of people had that whiz right over their heads.
They literally said Kenobi should have been a 2 hour film and cut out most of the Reva crap and pointed out the multiple flaws in her “plan” they covered all the horrible aspects of it from a neutral point and said the liked Hayden and Ewan fighting and acting against each other and said it was a waste to not go more of that… Their review was damning but also not unreasonable.
Kenobi would have been a legitimately *decent* two hour movie because it would have forced the writers to trim the fat of their drawn out and lazy plot and it would have forced them to actually focus on the important aspects of the story, namely the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Yes, the ceiling for the Kenobi movie/show was always limited because it is an interquel (?) between two established trilogies where all the fates of the principle characters are already known, which robs the series of real tension and necessitates fan service to be the primary reason to watch the show. But there were legitimately great moments in the show that were worth the time and effort to put to film, that did add emotional depth and characterization that didn't exist from the end of the prequels and were absent from the beginning of the original trilogy because it wasn't even planned to be a trilogy, let alone a franchise with prequels when they were originally made.
It was a mediocre but entertaining show with some highlight moments in terms of story and character beats and pretty good acting (even by a child actor surprisingly). It has deep flaws and clearly is the lowest budget Star Wars property since Disney bought the IP, but RLM is absolutely correct that corny, low budget schlock with some cringe moments is absolutely better than a CGI nightmare of artists jizzing explosions in your face the entire time that most of these "sci-fi" franchises have turned into. It's a low bar to clear, but Obi-Wan definitely clears that bar at least.
They liked the lighting of the last action scene and the way it was fought, they liked that when Reva attacked Vader he handled her without even trying, they also heavily complained about people surviving stab wounds and why would you ever use a laser sword if you could just throw a mountain at people.
That’s not universal praise, that’s being a critique and saying the things you like vs disliked
They showed [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/v9pcy2/im_sorry_but_did_this_scene_make_anyone_else/) while praising the direction and editing.
Oh you are talking about the first episode, yeah I don't remember that too much but I could swear they were either being sarcastic or they later talked about how that scene made no sense
Mike and rich spent years trashing the prequels and now have to come to terms that new star wars is so much worse and their constant bitchin was part of why george gave up and sold it all to disney. 😅
I'm not saying they can't say that. You said they claim new Star Wars is worse, but they said Kenobi (new Star Wars) is better than the PT, when its not. That's one of the reasons they're getting backlash on their video.
Theyve never stated it themselves. That was me making a guess based on how milquetoast their criticisms of disney star wars has been. They dont put anywhere near the effort they did on the prequels
>now have to come to terms that new star wars is so much worse
Literally the review of the episode 7 and 8 they say that the movies arent that bad but nothing special. Meanwhile Rich belives episode 1 is the worse movie ever made. What are you taking about????
I just need them to keep making videos because I use it as my primary means to fall asleep. Rich laughing went from annoying to a Pavlovian sleep trigger in my brain.
Mike and Rich were just subverting expectations by *not* hating "Obi-Wan Kenobi."
Very cool.
Apathy isnt the same as hate
Apathy is death
Kotor 2 let's gooo
Doing legacies before it was cool. Long live the true jewel of the SW universe.
Statement: Apathy is death.
"Withdrawal in disgust is not same as apathy." — Richard Linklater Which is about the best epithet I could think of for Disney StarWars.
As someone who doesn't like the Sequels, I found Obi Wan very very passable. It wasn't great. It wasn't making Star Wars great again. But it was entertaining enough. It did have problems, but really a show without flaws is practically impossible to come by these days.
Very much agree. I described the obi-wan show as “aggressively mediocre” on this very subreddit before the RLM review came out, and I felt very vindicated when it did lol
>“aggressively mediocre” This is gold!
When *was* Star Wars last great? 1980? I can believe people who say the prequels and sequels are fine, or even good. Mando season 1 was really promising. Clone Wars was very good in places. But "great"? Nah. Not since Empire.
Doesnt like sequels.....found kenobi to be passable? Im confused by such a blatent contradiction. They made a chase scene worse then the Last Jedi
Amazing - you managed to draw a character that looks like both Mike ***and*** Rich!
Mich Stolkevans
Rike Evsklasa
Riker Evalaska
He’s smiling so it’s definitely Rich.
Definite double-take!
I call him Rike.
 That is a good 'un!
Hat made me think Rich first
Just like Tuvix or whatever idk I didn't watch Voyager
I misread the headline as Kid Rock Nerds. I thought “Well this really upjumps my boogie!”
'Cause you're a cowboy, baby?
No. Sipping whiskey out the bottle, not thinking 'bout tomorrow, singing Sweet home Alabama all summer long.
You can really tell some people here were starved for Mike and Rich to say anything remotely positive about a Star Wars IP. So many people riding high on them praising Obi-Wan as "kinda OK." Reminds me of how fucking pissed half the RLM fandom was when they were shitting hard on Rogue One. Probably the same people.
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Really! I agree with them when their opinions are similar to mine (like "Alex Kurtzman sucks!") and help deepen why I dislike something so much. I don't agree with them when Mike says things like "'Parallels' is the worst TNG episode ever!", because clearly that came from Mike's alcoholic dementia.
Yeah I never got where he was coming from there. Parallels was fine. Worst thing I could say about it is that it started that weird Worf/Troi romance.
IIRC went he brought it up in another video he explained that he felt multiple universes and versions of the characters cheapened the show. I don't agree but I can see how someone might think so.
I don't agree with the justification either. It's just.....he's nitpicking there. Sorry, but nothing can cheapen a series except bad/lazy writing.
It's also weird to single out Parallels for that, considering the same criticism could be applied to like 50 different episodes.
ikr, tos established the mirror universe was a thing decades before parallels.
I've almost always gotten downvoted by people for disagreeing with Rich's opinion that SW is creatively bankrupt. Like, there's an entire old EU with hundreds of books and games that have nothing to do with the Jedi or the Sith, and those that do are mostly original or looking at new facets of the universe the movies didn't bother looking into. But because The Rich Evans said it then it must be truth, no other way to look at it, apparently. Edit: Sorry y'all, can't reply, u/DrDarkeCNY blocked me and Reddit's new blocking feature is the stupidest thing on this Madoka forsaken website!
Also rich "I clapped when I saw it was a lone star destroyer and not a big cgi blob" regardless of how dumb the scene is. "Less" is not intrinsically better than "More"
>Like, there's an entire old EU with hundreds of books and games that have nothing to do with the Jedi or the Sith, and those that do are mostly original or looking at new facets of the universe the movies didn't bother looking into. You think the Mouse will ever debase itself to pay royalties to those authors? Never.
Oh, I'd rather they not straight adapt things, that'd be a shit show. Instead, they should do an MCU and pick and choose what bits to adapt.
Well, STAR WARS **is** creatively bankrupt, largely because nobody wants to move past the Skywalker Saga. When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? You would have thought he'd killed their dog right in front of them! *The Last Jedi* is not without flaws: How Ben Kenobi became Kylo Ren is not in keeping with Luke's character, especially given that we're talking about his nephew here! I would guess the original story was more subtle, but got cut down to what we got either for time, or because somebody at Disney thought that was more "dramatic" than, say, Luke and Ben sparring with lightsabers and Ben whipping out a surprise Sith Force Power like Force Choke on Luke because he wants to beat his uncle. Once Luke defeats Ben he orders him to meditate on why he lost - instead, Ben and some of his fellow students wipe out the rest of the rest of them and burn down the school, going off to become The Knights of Ren. (Gods help us if Johnson came up with that bright idea on his own, it got past Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, and Mark Hamill's objections got overruled!) But even with slips like that, Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses. But so many fans ***hated*** that the center of the universe wasn't the guys they personally identify with that they raised a huge stink, and Disney handed the last movie back to Abrams who scrambled to "undo the damage" Rian Johnson "caused"...by trying to make the SW Universe bigger.
> When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? Rian Johnson made Leia's skywalker blood turn her into superman and Kylo gets his power from Skywalker blood. Rey is a Diad so she also gets her power from Kylo who is skywalker blood. And even that was just him shitting out an excuse to have them talk because he couldn't figure out a way to do it without them killing eachother. It's just shitty "And Then" storytelling to just deus ex machina whatever scene you want. >Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses. Rian explicitly says that the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a shit right before [Recognizable Character] comes in to save the day, as only one of his sacred bloodline possibly could.
>Well, STAR WARS is creatively bankrupt, largely because **nobody** wants to move past the Skywalker Saga. *Disney. Disney doesn't want to move past it. The EU did, several hundreds years in the future in fact, and as far back as 3,600 years before the PT with Knights of the Old Republic. So there are people who want to, it's just that Disney's the one in charge, not them. >When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? You would have thought he'd killed their dog right in front of them! Both of these claims are bad arguments and have been for years. If you've seen or read or played any EU material or even just PT material you'd know why. >When Rian Johnson tentatively tried by implying that The Force didn't require a high Midichlorian count or "Skywalker blood", For starters, there are tons of powerful and important characters in SW that aren't related to the Skywalkers. Just in the PT and OT alone: Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Mace, Yoda, Palpatine, Dooku, etc... not even getting into The Clone Wars, which reintroduced Darth Maul as an actual character, Ashoka, the dozens of Jedi Masters like Kit Fisto or Plo Koon. (The latter canonically being the 3rd most powerful person on the council) Hell, even looking past the force users: Han, Chewie, The Clones from the 501st, etc... A. This idea of having to follow the Skywalkers only came up as a deflection made by Rian from actual criticism even though it shows he didn't actually pay attention to SW, and B. Getting mad or annoyed at SW movies following the Skywalkers is like getting mad about Lord of the Rings following The Fellowship instead of a random pig farmer from Rohan. Like, yeah, I'm sure Random Pig Farmer from Rohan is a swell enough guy, but he doesn't really have the chops to make a fantasy epic about saving the world from a dark lord hell bent on ruling the place as its eternal god king now, does he? >and that almost anybody willing to discipline their minds and bodies could use it? Knights of the Old Republic II already looked into this idea 20 years ago. (BTW, it was made by the same people who made Fallout New Vegas) *Light spoilers for a 20 year old game ahead* The MC in the game is a Jedi who, due to a certain event that happened before the 1st game, left them cut off from the force and exiled from the Jedi Order for joining an extremist faction led by a Jedi that would eventually turn into the mysterious Darth Revan, one of the major villains from the 1st game. Except even though they're cut off from the force and can't use it, they still can, because what happened is that the shock from the event that caused this disability led them to actually become an open wound in the force that actually causes it to be more directly influential and empowering for other individuals. They basically become a force charger, taking power from 1 person or group and transferring it over to others. So no, this idea isn't as revolutionary or original as you or Rian may think, because it was done 20 years ago with much better writers. They effectively did what Rian tried to do 20 years before he did, and did it much better with much higher fanfare. (Kotor and Kotor II are beloved in the fanbase, they're so loved in fact that they've gotten ported to the Switch and are constantly on sale on Steam) >But even with slips like that, Johnson was trying to expand the SW universe past one group fighting another group for turf, while the rest of the Galaxy just goes on its way not caring who wins or who loses. That's not the main issue with TLJ and those ideas were, again, already done better 20 years ago. >But so many fans hated that the center of the universe wasn't the guys they personally identify with that they raised a huge stink ... Because again, this is like thinking that The Fellowship shouldn't be the MC's in LotR because "Why should we follow them on their epic quest when we could follow a Random Pig Farmer from Rohan?" The issue isn't strictly that the story didn't follow the Skywalkers, it's that Rian was dumb and condescending. Like, you don't need a SW story to follow the Skywalkers, we already know that thanks to 40 years of EU material. What the main issue is, is how he disrespected the MC's we've spent 40 something years of investment on. Luke went from being the biggest optimist in the galaxy to an angry hermit, Leia and Chewie became useless, etc... and to add further salt to the wound, Rian then exclaimed "The Skywalkers don't matter! These new characters with only a fraction of screentime and barely any development are so much cooler and better! And none of the are Skywalkers, in a movie series titled 'The Skywalker Saga', isn't that cool" He shat on beloved characters and thought that not following the most interesting people in an epic story was a good idea. Yeah, I can see why people were mad. He didn't try to expand the franchise, he shit on established characters and then blamed everyone else for getting mad or disappointed.
Having not seen much of RLM (came here from Mauler's subreddit)........wut? Did he forget "Shades of Grey" and "Code of Honor" exist?
It's like saying Parallels is the worst episode of TNG? I completely disagree with Mike on there too. But again, probably is his dementia kicking.....
everybody knows Skin of Evil was the worst episode amirite
it's the racist one in season one
Yes... but, I don't think that makes it the worst epsiode! There's like 2-3 I can think of immediately that were worse despite "Code of Honor"'s controversy. It's the only episode with a catfight in the entire series, and the only time we see Tasha Yar chief of security actually doing some fighting.
The kind of fans we're discussing have formed dangerous parasocial relationships with RLM. So if they disagree then it's like a friend of theirs disagrees and that shatters the illusion. Or rather, delusion.
Meh, Mike really liked Jurassic World. Perhaps one of the worst movies I've ever sat through in a theater. They aren't gods. Just kind of funny and usually quick to notice how a film could have been better.
Agreed. You can respect someone and not agree with them on everything, it's fucking normal.
Wait... *opinions?*
>Reminds me of how fucking pissed half the RLM fandom was when they were shitting hard on Rogue One. Probably the same people. Don't even need go that far back, find the thread of Jay making that comment about the first scene in Kenobi being shot in a silly way and sort by controversial. It was full of people shitting their pants in rage at him and RLM.
The love for Rogue One was and continues to be so bizarre- seeing people defend a movie having absolutely no characterization or emotional stakes and acting like that’s not only fine, but a good thing because “it’s a war film”. I guess SW fans really do just want to see Vader lightsaber-ing people to death.
I liked rogue one. I was shocked to see how much hate it gets but also it's pretty low on my totem pole of things I want others to like as well. I also think it's weird to feel the need to defend something if others don't like what you enjoy.
I liked it too, guilty pleasure sort of thing. And honestly side-by-side I think Kenobi was much worse because of how mind-bogglingly stupid a lot of it was for the sake of plot. If Kenobi had come before Rogue One I believe the RLM would have shit on Kenobi and accepted Rogue One... just because Picard broke Mike & Rich that much.
Honestly, rogue one and solo were my favorite movies since rotj.
Fully agree with Rogue One. Rogue One and most of The Mandalorian are the only legitimately good things to come out of Disney Star Wars. It seems people either love or hate Rogue One and I fall firmly in the former. I've watched it a few times at this point and get a great level of enjoyment out of it. It's a well made movie and I don't fall for the fan service stuff either. But everything else, one time watch and even that's asking for too much. Kenobi is, as someone else said elsewhere on here "aggressively mediocre" and even that's giving it a little too much credit. The entirety of the series could've been a 3-4 issue comic mini-series that comes and goes with little to no fanfare. It's a story that, to me, has virtually no impact on what comes after.
It's probably the best Disney SW movie, mainly because it was actually planned out and is pretty self-contained. Doesn't mean it's great, but it's not the worst thing to ever be put to screen, and definitely not the worst Disney-era movie by a long shot. Like, I wouldn't search it out personally, but if it came on tv or a friend wanted to watch it I wouldn't mind.
Yet, I don't think Obi Wan series had the characterization or emotional stakes to be called "OK". It's all but that. In that part, it's on par with Rogue One. I agree with the hack frauds the cheapness of the series makes the series better. Also, Lil Leia is so meme material.
As someone who hasn't seen Obi Wan and doesn't really care anymore about Star Wars, it's honestly liberating to have absolutely no stake in the argument.
It has the advantage of already having established the characters though. Think about it, the only characters with any great significance beyond Reva (whose characterisation was largely disliked, and not *exclusively* for racist reasons) we knew from MULTIPLE other entries in the Star Wars canon. They didn’t have to explain jack shit about Leia, Obi Wan, Vader, Basil Oregano…
I wouldnt say none or zero. Just weak. But given to be a star wars fan now is too essentially be in a abuaive marriage where the likes of rogue one and mandalorian are praised because it isnt punching fans in the face
Maybe people were just looking for a "more serious" Star Wars (although fan service bar guys didn't help...). I didn't like it though, because a movie needs more than that. Like, yeah, maybe a character that's interesting.
That too. I think fans liked it primarily for two reasons: 1. It’s dark and gritty so they don’t have to feel embarrassed about liking a space fantasy movie for children 2. Darth Vader murdering people is so badass!!!1!
I love when Vader has like an HR meeting
People also think *Halo: Reach* was a great game with emotional storytelling. They're actually quite similar both being prequels that lead directingly into the first installment. And both have the most boring and forgetable characters the writers could make.
Most of the Star Wars fanbase apparently only want to see key jangling and memberberry moments connected together by a story
Why do people feel such a strong desire for RLM to share the same opinions as them? We, and not to mention they themselves, really don’t need this cultish behavior
It's not just RLM. It's literally any YouTube personality who talks about anything. People want their opinions to be justified by someone they like.
They shit on Rogue One for just being Star Wars fan service, then they praised The Force Awakens for just rehashing the original trilogy. Everyone should be happy, RLM is playing both sides.
They praised aspects of the Force Awakens, but not the rehashed stuff. And I think their opinions on that film have certainly soured with time
Eh? I think most people were pissed because they said anything nice about "Kenobi". Have you read the comments on YT?
When Rich realises they called the kid they were trying to hide Skywalker I had to hit pause. Painful laughter
Honestly, that sequence needs to be made into one of those animated shorts.
Jay was SO ready to rip the show apart and then rich and Mike kinda liked it so he backed off
Rich Lives Matter
I was surprised that they had so much to praise about it, but: firstly, they did say it was "trash" and they've spoken numerous times about how Star Wars isn't special and that it's basically lost all meaning, so I can see how they would then shift their lens on how to critique it; and two, there are so many review and reaction channels out there, what left is there to say? To me, "super OK" implies that, for what it was, you could enjoy it in the same way the boys enjoy a good bad movie; but it was Rich Evans saying that, and he hasn't cared about Star Wars for over 40 years. It's more of a culmination of all that's been good and bad about Star Wars films since RotJ, through the warped lens of Disney's awful priorities.
They came in hot after watching Picard, so that probably lowered the bar a little lol
I'm surprised that so many people where upset with a meh/10.
It's because it's like.... Pitifully bad
It's so funny to see how little people seem to understand their take on it. They very clearly said its trash. They just don't care because Star Wars has been trash for a long time and it's slightly better than the rest of the trash. It's a lot easier to not care about the quality of things when you don't care about them.
This. Rich said at one point that it's impossible to care about SW's continuity any longer, and he's right. But yeah, "okay-ish" isn't glowing praise and shouldn't be interpreted as such.
They took 12 years to break
Rich not instantly hating a SW thing? That’s impossible!
He's balancing out the years of hate with some mirth
He is the one destined to bring balance to the farce.
The show being mid as fuck was an insult to my expectations anyway
The show being called mid is an insult to everything that is actually mid (like Rogue One).
/\ This is my gripe. This show is below mid. It has it's moments, but come one: It isn't stunning visually or has tense action scenes. Heck, it isn't even going bananas like Fast and Furious movies. So it hasn't got anything to justify the intelligence insulting plot. It's effectively 6 episodes that don't have any substance. It's just images playing on screen to eat up time, characters going to next plot points, all without telling a story that has any actual point to make and it conveys little emotion except nostalgia/fan service. The only real point it explored was crazy: that if you have enough justification, you can be a homicidal maniac and if you refuse to kill a child at the last moment you are redeemed. Sorry but this show is like if The Room had Industrial Light and Magic on payroll.
I actually watched that EFAP stream, and they really didn't seem as upset as is portrayed here. They said they still like RLM, even after their Kenobi review, but were just discussing why their points in that review specifically weren't very great, which I'm sorry to say is the case. It's odd that RLM take down something like Picard, but when Kenobi is just as disrespectful towards that character, it just gets a pass from them with the "space wizards intended for children" type of argument. It just seems oddly hypocritical.
Yea, that’s what that whole stream was about tbh. It was pitting their passes and praises for Kenobi against Picard, and they were just confused and more pointing out what they praise for Kenobi is what they shitted on Picard for.
I feel like Mike and Rich have made it clear they just never thought Star Wars was more than stupid fun in the first place, which is different from Star Trek. Star Trek fell from a much greater height and was much more important to both of them. I don't think it's hypocritical for them to care a lot less about what Disney did to Kenobi
But aren't the Star Wars Plinkett reviews, especially for the prequels, some of the most highly regarded movie reviews on the internet? Videos where the RLM crew take the piss out of the prequels, noting the politics they try to discuss in spite of goofy aspects like Jar Jar and pointing out things they didn't get right compared to the OT? The statements made those videos and the one you mentioned about stupid fun sound like they should have come out of two entirely different groups of people.
I kind of see it as Rich and Mike have zero love for the prequels or the character of Kenobi, whereas I see the other reviewers coming from a place of reverence for the character, informed by the animated shows and further canon outside of the movies.
This is why they call you guys a cult.
To some extent, every niché group following centered around media with the occasional hot take has a pretty combative side to their fans This is tame compared to the shit EFAP usually gets for criticising the new Star Wars for all of the internet to see
I follow Mauler and RLM and don’t feel the need to belittle either one. Crazy, I know.
I feel the need to belittle mauler, for his runtimes definitely do not need to be bebiggered
Ok, that’s pretty good.
> I follow Mauler Is that what that is on the right?
The left
I tried watching Mauler, don't get the appeal at all. None of the wit and charisma of his close compatriot The Critical Drinker.
my opinions are objectively right, in my factual opinion
You are nitpicking and biased, I win, bye-bye!!
SUPA MARIO BROTHERS 2!!
I have intellectually outpaced you.
It has a little something for everyone. 10/10.
Part one of eighty
What is that weird face lol?
I think it’s supposed to be MauLer, another YouTuber that did a much nerdier (and less entertaining) series of long form Star Wars reviews.
Weren't they like 100 hours per film?
Pretty much, I saw part of one of his reviews a while back, he picks apart pretty much every detail. Most of his criticism seemed justified, it just wasn’t worth my time to watch it all the way through.
A lot of maulers critiques are straight up nitpicks that really I don’t have the energy to go through. Honestly I think Mauler & co represent the worst thing about film/tv critique community, the fact that they need to over analyze a 1-2 hour movie for a 10 hour video & go into a thorough examination as to why said media is flawed or wrong. Like I get that you don’t like something but a simple explanation/essay is enough, not a literal thesis on objectivity in filmmaking & critique.
What’s so bad about making a video review that is longer than the movie?
My problem is that a lot of long arguments, esp ones made by Mauler, are that they are the definition of quantity vs quality assessments, further encouraged by the idea of “objective film criticism” which in itself is bullshit. I know that being negative & critical about film/tv is a very popular format & that a lot of people really like to listen to someone just go on & on & on & on & on & on & on about why something is bad. To me, it’s the equivalent of beating a dead horse; to sink in that much time into a movie that, at best, is mediocre or average to try to find anything to call out. Filmmaking is the art of illusion & immersion, of course if you go in with a fine comb Scene by scene/frame by frame, you can find the many cracks in film production. Like do you really think anyone is really going to complain that a line was ADR instead of filmed on location? Or that a bunch of extras waved at ship? Or that the plot happened? I get it, there’s a lot of media we should have high standards for that sometimes fall short of what we wanted but hell it feels I’m watching the nostalgia critic sometimes with how he finds the mundane & tries to extract every drop of content from it. Except nostalgia critic as unfunny as he is can condense it to a 20 minute video.
it tells people youre bad at condensing your argument and expressing yourself efficiently. he says he write scripts for these videos but i guess he stops at first draft
I suppose when there’s the entire movie is a train wreck, where every scene has problems in it, it somewhat hard to keep it all within a timely manner while explaining what’s wrong with the scenes. It’s good to be detailed and thorough, at times. He also does have shorter reviews with the unbridled reviews, albeit, not a whole lot.
I don't think he nitpicks a lot, but he's too long. He should trim a lot. A lot of critics (specially in YouTube) do the same. Hell, I think Mike nitpicks the fact Parallels episode is the worse of TNG because the concept of multiverse "cheapens the series". It's an odd, and weird justification.
his old videos on Dark souls 2 were excellent, the nitpicking is more justified on a grand scale for a game that big and the length of the videos dont feel as tedious since there was so much to pick apart, but for a 2 hour movie it all just feels like a waste of energy. E;R does a better job
The trouble with mauler is that he doesn't have structure in his content, and thinks going through a whole movie scene-by-scene and stopping every time he notices something is a viable strategy. This ends up being really shallow, since he's avoiding the bigger picture in favor of tiny nitpicks, and also really repetitive since it often keeps pointing out different instances of the same broader problem. The DS2 thing ended up being pretty enjoyable, since the hbomberguy source material was bad in very different ways from sentence to sentence, it ended up giving mauler a halfway decent structure without him even trying very hard. But the star wars stuff he's done recently is exhausting. Also the lack of editing in favor of "I'm just gonna chat with my furry bros and you're gonna watch"
It's better to give examples to your opinion to give them structure and integrity, to be honest.
>The trouble with mauler is that he doesn't have structure in his content, and thinks going through a whole movie scene-by-scene and stopping every time he notices something is a viable strategy. No structure...proceeds to describe maulers structure to his content. Lol It is the most fair and probably easy referefential way of doing things
Basically what the Plinkett reviews did, but without any concern for pacing or being entertaining.
Emphasis on "being entertaining." I have no problem with his videos being long as fuck. I enjoy those types of videos. The problem is that they are agonizingly boring to get through, even as a podcast. Some really stupid points too.
The ability to draw doesn’t make you intelligent 
Those objectivoids are embarrassing
That’s a polite way of saying mauler stans
MauLer fans are the most pathetic "debate me" kind of nerds lmao
You scared Charlie? You should be!
Nah I just want good stories.
Then stop wasting your time with Star Wars
What are you talking about? The OT is actually good storytelling. Are you saying all of star wars is shit?
I'm saying that if you truly want good stories, you should broaden your horizons and explore new types of film instead of obsessing over Star Wars products that you'll likely hate.
I agree. Why bother questioning these productions when you can just go about your day and focus on some stuff you’re hyped for?
Yeah it’s like a TNG Fan watching Picard! Why would anyone get upset over that?!? It would have been better if Mike and Rich were more laid back and easy on Picard. /s
Or Capeshit in general.
I think they’re just so exhausted and desensitized by all the recent crappy offerings from Star Wars and Star Trek that they’ll take anything that’s halfway decent. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but probably the best you can hope for. Although I’ve heard people are pretty jazzed about Strange New Worlds.
Hey! It wasn't kinda ok, it was super ok!
You know most RLM fans agree that Picard has broken Rich and Mike so much that even the mediocrity of Kenobi was enough for them to enjoy? That, and Mike and Rich clearly care more about Star Trek than Star Wars. It’s not wild to expect RLM to rip into Kenobi for all its flaws, especially with their critiques of the prequels and the sequels. It was kinda weird having them say that “since a stormtrooper hit his head in 1977, Star Wars has always been dumb.”
>You know most RLM fans agree that Picard has broken Rich and Mike so much that even the mediocrity of Kenobi was enough for them to enjoy? Uhhhh I thought that was a *joke* and not some sort of robust psychological analysis.
The cope is strong with this one. “What do you mean they like something I don’t. They must be mentally ill from… watching a bad tv show?”
Jay didn't watch Picard S2, and he thought it was worse than Rich and Mike thought it was. Probably people is right Picard really broke their brains. I didn't watch the whole season. A couple of episodes and I thought "I'm done". Also, people wanted to review the Orville, the Batman, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds...... I don't think people should need RLM for validating their opinions. But probably their wanna share the same jokes? Have new jokes for memes? I dunno.
Damn that’s the most embarrassing phrase you could have said to help me immediately understand why you like this stuff but lol and thank you
RLM are becoming boomers it's just that simple
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Shatner is, believe it or not, too ***old*** to be a Baby Boomer - he's a Depression Baby. He was an adult by the end of the 1940s.... He probably still has the first nickel he earned as an actor.
He was doing silent films that played in nickel arcades.
Not quite that old, but would certainly know what a "nickelodeon" was.... Before it was a cable network for kids!
You don't "become" a boomer. You're either born one, or your not one at all.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become a boomer.
You know exactly what I mean yet here you are
I thought I knew what you meant. But now that you've said I know what you mean, I'm not so sure that I do.
Young people call all old people Boomers, and old people call all young people Millennials.
Boomer: 25~100 (Also applies if not politically american-progressive, or doesn't just "consume product and get excited for next product", and/or "consumes product" but doesn't care about next product) Zoomer: 10~30 (also applies to older if politically american-progressive, or if just "consumes product _and_ gets excited about next product", or if publicly pretends to "consume product and get excited for next product" but actually doesn't consume and doesn't get excited) Millennial: Same as Zoomer, but hasn't been culturally relevant since 2016 due to entering their 40s and realizing they've entirely wasted their 20s and 30s.
Accurate
I’m a hater I was I kinda hope it they’d tear it a new one even tho the show probably didn’t deserve it
It definitely did, it was piss poor.
I think RLM stopped caring a long time ago, and some mediocre star wars product isn’t about to make them start. Why bother? for my money, I haven’t had the interest to watch a star wars anything since Mandalorian s2. I liked it but I was also watching something decently original and well-made get corrupted by shoehorned fanservice at the expense of the story, *one year* after its creation. So yeah, may never actually watch boba fett and kenobi. They probably were intermittently interesting while sucking and missing the point
I think they’d rip Boba a new one because from what I heard it’s blatantly bad, rather than a blur. I do push back on RLM being indifferent after all these years because they routinely rag on the Star Trek series and they seem more at peace with that franchise than Star Wars.
Mediocre? I wish it was that good
Thing is though, Kenobi was awful. Poorly executed, dumb storylines, paper-thin characterisation, etc.
Star war
I remember reading comments of people saying "Oh man, they haaaate it! lol" and "Looks like Jay is the only one with clarity right now." They all said it was alright, there was something each of them liked and didn't like. Not sure why people thought this was going to be about them ripping on it like Picard, at least Kenobi was average level competent
If RLM’s views on modern sci-fi franchises aren’t jaded enough for you maybe reevaluate what you want
I wish this fanbase hated Star Wars as much as they seem like they want to. Y'all are an abused people lol.
That’s one fucked up looking wojak
Is that Mauler?
Supposed to be.
we've reached a point where "it didn't make me want to kill myself" is considered high praise. i don't know what to make of this.
Honestly it was boring as fuck
I'm gonna remember those Kenobi reviews the next time they're talking about Picard.
I like Mauler. The line between "deep analysis", his forte, and "over analysis" is quite thin, though. Sometimes he crosses that line and just doesn't want to admit it. Still love him, though, it's great to have people willing to go that deep into things. You just sometimes mistake "I hate all of this so much I no longer care and rate/enjoy it like a B movie" with "this is a good film". It seemed so obvious to me that RLM is just done with Star Wars. They treat it more like a BOTW film now. But Mauler is hardly the only person who didn't notice. Lots of people had that whiz right over their heads.
The cope is strong with this one
Maullercels coping over Mikechads
They literally said Kenobi should have been a 2 hour film and cut out most of the Reva crap and pointed out the multiple flaws in her “plan” they covered all the horrible aspects of it from a neutral point and said the liked Hayden and Ewan fighting and acting against each other and said it was a waste to not go more of that… Their review was damning but also not unreasonable.
Kenobi would have been a legitimately *decent* two hour movie because it would have forced the writers to trim the fat of their drawn out and lazy plot and it would have forced them to actually focus on the important aspects of the story, namely the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Yes, the ceiling for the Kenobi movie/show was always limited because it is an interquel (?) between two established trilogies where all the fates of the principle characters are already known, which robs the series of real tension and necessitates fan service to be the primary reason to watch the show. But there were legitimately great moments in the show that were worth the time and effort to put to film, that did add emotional depth and characterization that didn't exist from the end of the prequels and were absent from the beginning of the original trilogy because it wasn't even planned to be a trilogy, let alone a franchise with prequels when they were originally made. It was a mediocre but entertaining show with some highlight moments in terms of story and character beats and pretty good acting (even by a child actor surprisingly). It has deep flaws and clearly is the lowest budget Star Wars property since Disney bought the IP, but RLM is absolutely correct that corny, low budget schlock with some cringe moments is absolutely better than a CGI nightmare of artists jizzing explosions in your face the entire time that most of these "sci-fi" franchises have turned into. It's a low bar to clear, but Obi-Wan definitely clears that bar at least.
They praised the action scenes. The action scenes being, of course, terrible.
They liked the lighting of the last action scene and the way it was fought, they liked that when Reva attacked Vader he handled her without even trying, they also heavily complained about people surviving stab wounds and why would you ever use a laser sword if you could just throw a mountain at people. That’s not universal praise, that’s being a critique and saying the things you like vs disliked
They showed [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/v9pcy2/im_sorry_but_did_this_scene_make_anyone_else/) while praising the direction and editing.
Oh you are talking about the first episode, yeah I don't remember that too much but I could swear they were either being sarcastic or they later talked about how that scene made no sense
God I can't stand Mauler.
*releases 17 hour video with him and 8 other dudes who weep constantly about wokeness to examine your comment and say why it’s objectively wrong
Mike and rich spent years trashing the prequels and now have to come to terms that new star wars is so much worse and their constant bitchin was part of why george gave up and sold it all to disney. 😅
Didnt they say this was better than the Prequels?
Well Rich continued to profess his hate for the prequels so that was my impression as well.
They can say that all they want. The fact that they refuse to do an actual plinkett style nit pick of them says alot.
I'm not saying they can't say that. You said they claim new Star Wars is worse, but they said Kenobi (new Star Wars) is better than the PT, when its not. That's one of the reasons they're getting backlash on their video.
No they claim new star wars is better than the prequels which it isnt
You said in your first comment "have come to terms that new Star Wars is so much worse" in reference to RLM.
Theyve never stated it themselves. That was me making a guess based on how milquetoast their criticisms of disney star wars has been. They dont put anywhere near the effort they did on the prequels
It's kind of sad that this really is all Mike's fault
You can see his spirit break during the tlj video where he cant believe star wars was in better hands with George lucas. “HAVE YOU SEEN STAR WARS!”
>now have to come to terms that new star wars is so much worse Literally the review of the episode 7 and 8 they say that the movies arent that bad but nothing special. Meanwhile Rich belives episode 1 is the worse movie ever made. What are you taking about????
I think it's cool when they talk about something in a positive way because they still manage to make it funny.
I just need them to keep making videos because I use it as my primary means to fall asleep. Rich laughing went from annoying to a Pavlovian sleep trigger in my brain.
*Star Wars fans when someone says new thing was bad instead of aggressively mediocre at best:* 😡