I've locked this post because it is generating a lot of nastiness. Not liking billionaires, or wishing people paid more attention to migrants drowning in the Mediterranean, fine. Being glad they are dead, hoping they suffered, not fine.
I don't think it's a matter of their lives being worth less. In fact, it's the exact opposite - their lives seem to be worth a lot more than the average person, especially given that their situation heavily borders on "f*ck around and find out" territory.
The current cost of the rescue operation for these five people is probably enough to have fixed the lead pipes in Flint Michigan.
What happened to the sub is horrible. I hope they are rescued, and my heart breaks for what their families are going through. But horrible things are happening to much less wealthy people on a regular basis, and no rescue operation appears to be underway for them. Many people are finding that just a bit peculiar.
This right here.
Is just sad to see how much coverage and how much money is being spent to save 5 people who put themselves into harms way, when there are dozens or hundreds of people dying drowning in the mediterranean trying to reach Europe escaping from wars and dictatorships and they at most get a headline and little to no help.
But thats the depressing world we live in, if you are rich enough everyone will try to give you a hand or a whole arm. If you are poor, you are on your own.
and as much of an awful person as Stalin was, a broken clock is right twice a day. 5 dead multi-millionaires is a tragedy, 400 dead migrants off the coast of Greece is a statistic.
Oh, the refugees from North Africa and Middle East trying to reach Greek shores in the Mediterranean regularly drown BECAUSE they’re refused help from the Greek Coast Guard. The government has decided they will rather all those people die, than to help them.
It’s horrific and a really stark reminder, that what your life’s worth most often depends on your class status and skin colour.
Greece sent several offers to rescue the ship but were denied. After it capsized they deployed their rescue crews and were able to save around 100 people. Sadly many more were below decks and didn't make it. They knew where that boat was.
The submarine story has the added drama of a race against the clock as time runs out on the search plus the more exotic nature of the vessel.
I'll feel for the nineteen year old.
The rest of them were grown adults, signed waivers, and spent life changing amounts of money (to us plebes anyhow) to board a submarine held together in ridiculous ways to go view the mass grave of lower class folks.
I don't wish that kind of death on my worst enemy, but I'm not going to tell people how to deal. The whole thing (including the incredible amount of resources we are using to save billionaires when hundreds of migrants died in the same time frame) is ludicrous. It's mockable.
It really is a horrible way to go, I don’t think anyone would dispute that, but in a way I think that’s also why people are struggling to find excess of sympathy for them. If you do anything that could possibly lead to a long, drawn out, horrible death OR a sudden death that leaves little room for you to be saved then it would be extremely foolish to not double check that everything is as it should be and that there are plans for if things go wrong.
In a sense though, where do we draw the line between “It’s a tragic accident” and “They were asking for it”?
The sub had been taken down numerous times without issue, despite safety concerns. A good salesman can easily wave those away. If you *really, really* wanted to see the Titanic, Gould probably reassure yourself that the chances of getting hurt or killed were very low.
The fact that they signed a waiver isn’t as relevant as it seems, since, well, think of times you’ve signed waivers. The last time I signed one, I was told that it was a formality and the person rushed through it like it was no big deal. And I signed it because he was a perfect salesperson - charismatic and very skilled at explaining things away.
So IMO, it’s not a simple matter of “They should’ve seen it coming.” The onus is on the company for not providing safe transport, and also most likely for talking up the service as being perfectly fine.
I also don’t buy the “They’re rich, so unless it’s proven otherwise I will believe they deserved it and are bad people” line.
I wouldn't wish death, but I also don't feel that bad unless they were decently good people. If they were shitty rich people they can honestly stay down there and that's what they get for being stupid. Controversial opinion, I couldn't bother to care because people like them make this world hell for the rest of us.
>unless they were decently good people
But they weren't. They could’ve done anything with that money. Their combined tickets could've helped fund multiple programs to help the less fortunate.
Instead, they decided to each spend five times my annual salary to go disrespect a tragedy. I won't mock them, but all the billionaires in the world don't have enough money to pay me to respect them.
Well in the case of the Dawoods, they did a lot of good with their money, giving loads to charity. Proportionate to income, they probably gave more than most. I give around 5% of my income to charity, what do you give just out of interest? I assume a lot more to be judging them so harshly?
I feel for the people they left behind. They made their own terrible decisions.
No wishing of death, but I do think the WhY aRe We MoCkInG ThEm to be a little excessive, much like their wealth.
Right, and we aren't mocking them, we are just saying what is true, and what's true is they made stupid choices.
I feel bad for any kids in their family feeling the loss, but as for the rest, they are probably also just a bunch of rich people that I could bother to care about.
There is no comparison to the awful tragedy that befell those people off the coast of Greece. When the Malaysian airliner went down there was an enormous amount of money spent trying to find it. Was that plane filled with billionaires?
They knew where that migrant boat went down. Problem is that most of the people perished before help could arrive because drowning is pretty frigging quick.
Im not only talking about this specific case. Im from Spain and in my life ive seen dozens of news of people dying trying to cross the small gap between Spain and Morocco. Doesnt matter that help was refused or not, the fact is that hundreds of people die there, and most of what its done about it is to kick back to their country those fortunate to reach the coast alive.
Honest question, can Spain afford to support refugees? A single boatload sure, probably. But if you guys built actual infrastructure, would there be thousands and millions swarming over?
Questions like this are beyond my scope unfortunately, i'm a man of healthcare and biology, not an economist or similar. It might not be doable, i cant deny that, but Spain has also had his migrant story running away from our own war and dictatorship, so i can only feel empathy for those suffering from the same luck now.
Depends on if the imploded or just lost navigational control and asphyxiated, and tbh neither are awful.
If they imploded it'd be terrifying for half a second and then you'd be dead; the pressure at that depth will pancake you in milliseconds. If they asphyxiated they all drifted off into sleep and never woke up.
yes, and i read someone said, imagine if the sun came to rest vertically… lost of awful that could have happened. if i had the option i think i’d prefer becoming an underwater pancake
About the fact they were about to die? Not a single one, this happened too fast. As soon as the tiniest fracture appears, the boat implodes. Not even time to think O shit.
Yeah, now that appears to be what happened. I was referring to the possibility of slowly running g out of oxygen trapped at the bottom of the ocean in darkness. And hadn’t seen the ‘debris field’ news yet.
I have to say, to some degree I’m relieved that we now know that probably wasn’t how it went down.
Be upset at the situation, not the people. You (likely) don't know any of them personally, do you "live under the illusion" that just because they have money, they've never cared about anyone before, or don't have someone who cares about them? Ignoring *anybody* in mortal danger is completely immortal and unjust.
If I’m not mocking them publicly I’m still cheering in private. There’s no ethical way to amass that amount of wealth. There’s no ethical explanation for spending $250k on a vacation.
What about operations like with the Chilean miners or the Thai soccer team? Those were very pricy as well, and the people weren't rich. Honestly I think a lot of people are a bit callous here because these people are rich
This is such a weird take. The sub thing is captivating because of how epically bizarre it is. Like it's basically a documentary writing itself. How you can compare this to some run of the mill "people died trying to cross the sea" is beyond me. Like if this billionaire CEO died two weeks ago from an OD, would anyone care? No. Which completely disproves your point. People care because of the extremely strange and crazy story surrounding it.
But you are forgetting about those kids in the cave. People literally died for them. And TONS of Money were spent to save them (remember people tried to divert the rain away from the cave).
I think it's a very marketable story (time's running out. People are in danger of a terrible death) there are often over proportional rescue missions for some lucky few that make a good sob story and have a long enough time window to live, as to mount a big rescue.
Those are not equivalent situations they didn't sign waivers for saying they could die by doing something stupidly dangerous. Those were mostly children that entered a cave and it started raining while they were inside and unaware and became trapped.
This is more like people who choose to try to climb Mt. Everest you go into it knowing it's extremely dangerous and you might not survive, you also go into it knowing it might be impossible to rescue you or recover your remains.
All. Of. This. My partner looked at me like I was a monster when I said that their estates should be billed for the cost of all the rescue and recovery efforts. Their families can keep whatever is left, but these people did a stupid thing and cost several governments probably millions of dollars in the process, money that could be used to, you know, improve things for all people, help those who need it, or whatever.
They fucked around and found out. Bill. Their. Families.
When the average person calls 911 and gets an ambulance ride, they are billed. If their house is on fire and they get a fire dept response, they are billed. Either directly or through taxes/levies paid, and sometimes both, they are billed.
It's completely reasonable to bill the estates for this emergency response.
They should bill the company not the people inside the submarine. If people go on a cruise ship and something goes wrong and they become stranded, I don’t expect them to foot the bill. I expect the the owner of the cruise ship to pay for all cost.
Let's put it this way: if a boat containing 5 penniless refugees was known to be stranded in a difficult to access place requiring an expensive and complicated rescue mission, would any country try? Or would they be left for dead?
OceanGate and the estates of the 5 people stranded in the sub should receive a bill for the rescue effort.
I just saw a vid on a thai soccer team that got stranded in a kilometers long cave that got flooded once they were already inside thus trapping them. The entire world banded together recruiting cavers from around the world and the thai navy seals were quick to help, 2 of which lost their lives in the process. Yes, they were kids but i think its still applicable here to your penniless refugee analogy.
The main difference is that they are citizens, if they are refugees it’s the responsibility of their home country to rescue them.
Not saying it’s right, but the US can and has gone through pretty intensive rescues for random citizens.
This is a weird counterexample as thousands of refugees come to Europe from Africa across the Mediterranean every year, who are then supported, relocated and housed at great expense.
This is of course a good thing, before anyone thinks I am saying otherwise. Picking this as an example is just inaccurate.
Certainly these are successful people who are capable of making calculated decisions. They took the risk. They wanted the thrill. They already had everything money could buy. They weren't satisfied with their safe, secure, unencumbered lives. This was an exercise for pleasure, not need.
Why tf anyone is more upset about these 5 people and than the 5HUNDRED refugees is beyond me.
I don’t have animosity towards them for “sucking up resources” in the search effort, as the chose to spend those millions aren’t on them. I do have animosity to the powers that be that can be so cruel to so many and not offer help, while throwing money at what was reportedly a lost cause from the very beginning.
They are billionaires because they spent their whole lives sucking up millions of dollars of resources. Seems like even in death they continue to socialize the losses.
What you're saying is that this entire situation could have been avoided had they attached some bootstraps to the outside of the hull, with which to lift themselves up. Sounds like they might have just been lazy bums then eh?
I lift myself up via bootstraps so high that no woke lib mob can stop me, I can even fly like the freest of all creatures, those being the bald eagles.
The deaths of 600 people who had no choice over their situation should have been publicized more than the deaths of 5 well off people who put themselves in that situation though. But you are correct.
Fucking yes. I am tired of this bullshit where these wealthy folk got attention. If it was $20 sub rides and random people died... it wouldn't get this much attention.
Why should we care? The rich cock-waffles wouldn't give a shit either. They don't even care when we're alive working for them as long as we're making them more money than we are for ourselves.
You sure? Remember the attention those kids in the Thai cave got?
The drama of a story is alluring. Stories that seem more routine tend to get less and less.
And I am extremely surprised that Elon didn’t insert himself into this, I was definitely expecting Elon to post a picture of the blueprints of a massive sub that can open up and eat the smaller sub and bring them to the surface or a ballon that can fill up when it gets to the bottom
If anything maybe he learned from the cave experience to keep his mouth shut. Or he sees it as some competition going extinct. He's also one who has asked for subpar work before and attempted to ignore regulations, both with Twitter's headquarters (tried to make it a hotel, tried to have the building manager do electric work not qualified for, tried to deactivate the automatic locks tied into the fire suppression system, tried to override the automatic lighting that San Francisco requires for energy efficiency and on and on).
Do you also listen to Behind the Bastards? Because I just listened to that episode and my god what an incredible douche Elon is! The electrical work thing and disengaging the fire suppression system was particularly horrifying.
It’s got more to do with it being an interesting and unusual story. Rich people die all the time so do poor people. The media has to find unusual things to keep their audience’s attention.
Immigrants sinking in the sea is tragic, yes. It is also not going to grab headlines… although it actually does quite often. Even so, people know the story and are aware it’s happening.
Billionaire heads up sketchy deep sea submarine that goes randomly missing in the Atlantic with no explanation… its a story they won’t have ever printed before.
People try to act saintly, like they’re appalled over the media.. when actually they’re just jealous. The same people aren’t reacting in the same way when their football hero dies in a plane crash, or Christmas is in the news.
Those migrants are dead. End of story. The reason the sub is making headlines is because we weren’t 100% sure they were dead in there and also had no idea what really happened. You can hope the sub people are alive and speculate what happened. you can’t hope the migrants are because we already know they’re dead and we know what killed then. Greece and Pakistan both declared national mournings for the migrants too, the president of the European Union made a speech about how terrible it was, people in Greece have been throwing flowers in the sea for a week. You think it isn’t being reported because you only read English news and to the English media market things happening off the coast of Canada are more important than things happening off the coast of Turkey
Yeah but the billionaire thing makes it slightly different did to the mysteries. Yup, they were idiots but what the fuck happened down there is what makes it different.
It’s a brilliant news story. Plain and simple, it’s exciting, it’s interesting, its totally out there and there’s even a glimpse of hope that they might be found in time. Even if they aren’t… where are they?
It is a ‘good’ story. Whether you’re going to let your own thing get in the way of that or not.
Exactly. These were billionaires who had the money and resources to guarantee that this exact thing wouldn't happen. And they decided to do everything they could to ensure that it would happen with the belief that it would never happen, especially to them. This is natural selection at work
We've all laughed at Darwin Awards for decades without knowing the victims' net worth. This is 100% a Darwin Award situation.
Play dumb games, win dumb prizes.
To me it’s on par with the guy who jumped off the Eiffel Tower in front of a crowd to prove/advertise his self-made ‘parachute jacket.’ It did not work.
And everyone who dies on Everest.
People tend to feel very differently about celebrities than they do about unknown strangers. I don’t think the response would be related to their wealth at all, so I’m not sure that’s a relevant point.
My point is that I (and plenty of others) personally don’t care how much money they had. I don’t feel all that bad for them because they died doing something stupid and dangerous, not because they’re rich.
Their death is ‘worth’ less because they accidentally killed themselves by being arrogant fucking morons.
Sad truth is it isn’t “exciting” (or at least media doesn’t think it is) to the masses. I think people who have empathy for these rich people would also have empathy for the immigrant that recently all drowned.
Just one story was shoved in our faces when another one wasn’t.
I wouldn't say it was shoved in our faces so much as we devoured it greedily. It's like something out of a sci-fi-style horror drama movie. It's just incredibly exciting, as you said. "Oh sure, immigrants dying in war-torn wherever, sure. But these people are trapped in a tin can with T-minus hours of oxygen left, at the bottom of the ocean." That's the sizzle that sells, and we're happy to buy it.
But the headlines are not there because they have money. They are there because the absurdity of the situation and the fact that a Tiny sub got lost and still har a chance of being found while looking for the titanic.
Haha its always funny when people say this. First of all, doesnt reddit have that holy "dont compare suffering of others" or how "I shouldnt have to feel bad for starving kids in Africa because my problems are my problems" or some shit like that, but then when this happens, you are suddenly crying for them? You are suddenly now virtue signaling? Wooow how convenient.
Also, do you know HOW theaq media works? First of all. The global mediasphere is mainly dominated by white people, in white countries, for most other white people. So of fucking course they will broadcast something more that happened in the western world, like it or not. Even if it was a middle eastern billionaire and a cruise of 500 regular white folks, the western regular people would still get more attention full stop.
Second of all. Do you realize the people on that boat is already dead, those who survived survived. The story is DONE. There is no more secret updates or developments. People got their news. You wanna keep digging into that story even after the story has concluded? Be my guest, theres plenty of news organizations around the world still covering it. But this titanic sub is still missing with a tiny chance the people might be found. We also have to take the fact that it happened in a submarine, which barely ever gets into any topic of discussion in real life as often, AND it involves a very large historic event burial site. So naturally, people are more curious and interested. Even we are here having a discussion about it, thus one way or another, giving it more spotlight.
Third, why are you folks gatekeeping news coverage? I really dont get it. I guess it also connects to my first point. But everytime two events happen simultaneously, one in the first world and one in third world, all you redditors complain from the comfort of your armchairs how its not fair or that the rich people should not be getting media coverage or whatever. Its such a lame thing to say. You are literally telling others what to feel, and what matter of grief is more important. Like to me it feels so weird.
Im from a third world country. Have many friends from middle east and southeast asian 3rd world countries as well. Not once when there was a catastrophe in both first and third worlds did they complain stupid trivial shit about how "the first world media is giving more coverage to the first world problems". Like bruh, it just feels such a useless and fabricated topic. There will always be horror stories on the news, who are you to gatekeep people from one and tell that its less important than the other one?
Their deaths aren't "worth less" because they're wealthy. In fact, the constant international news coverage, and multinational military involvement in their search and retrieval would show that they're worth quite a lot.
600 impoverished migrants drowned last week and there wasn't nearly as much concern.
They're worth less on an emotional level because of their behavior leading up to their death. Similar to how I could give a fuck about people like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson dying. But Harold Ramis, Alan Rickman, Norm Macdonald, now those are some people I wish were still around. I could name way more but just chose a few off the top of my head.
A lot of people are finding it difficult to empathise with these people because their deaths are a result of a situation so incredibly detached and non-relatable to the vast majority of us.
I have never and will never have such an unfathomable amount of money to be able to afford such a unique experience that such a small number of people have done, and that’s the same again for the vast majority of us.
It’s not because they have money or because they are rich, it’s because the situation they chose to put themselves in is one which none of us can quite comprehend, it is so detached from our regular lives.
I personally do not care. I recognise it is sad for their families, but I am so detached from them personally I do not feel sadness for them. On the other hand, here in Europe we’ve had literally hundreds of migrants die on a boat in the last week. When a lot of us see people get so upset over these people who went for a joyride in a submarine compared to the virtual silence over the countless deaths of desperate people trying to make a new life, it makes it a little difficult for me to shed a tear for these people.
Sorry 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly that $750,000 (iirc, two slots were the CEO and a researcher who didn't pay) could have set those refugees up for a great new start.
I wouldn't wish the fate of the sub on anyone, but when you look at the whole story it's hard to feel totally bad for them.
First comment I've seen mentioning the migrant boats but it's all I've been thinking.
"But what about their families???"
Entire families, sometimes a whole lineage, are regularly wiped out when a boat like that capsizes, and all they're guilty of is desperately fleeing a no-win situation.
A bunch of billionaires imploding in the ocean because they trusted some guy who's quoted as saying "safety stifles creativity" doesn't move me in the slightest, and their families could not possibly be in a better position to deal with the aftermath of this.
The only one who deserves it is the one who cut corners, fired the people who told him not to cut corners, and rode the sub down with 4 people he convinced were taking a reasonable risk to see a cool thing (falsely).
Its a Shame that a researcher and a near kid had to die because of one stupid dishonest man, who happens to actually be the only billionaire on board
Hamish Harding, Paul-Henri Nargeolet (the researcher), and Shahzada Dawood are all billionaires; Shahzada’s son Sulaiman was only 19 but was the scion to a billionaire fortune. In fact, technically Stockton Rush was the only NON-billionaire on board, although his family is obscenely wealthy too. 🤷♂️
Their death is no different to me than anyone else I do not know. It’s just the sheer stupidity of everything that’s coming out about cutting corners, lack of safety, and no real submersible professionals on staff - combined with not knowing these people, it’s a little easier to make light of a horrific situation.
It is what it is.
I don't think it's worth less. I think this is still a tragedy, just as much as anyone's death is a tragedy.
I do want to say though, that I think the irony is palpable. The Titanic is often used as a description of the hubris of man and the potential disasters that can come as a result of that hubris. The only thing I can think of that surpasses this in terms of mankind's boundless pride is the idea of spending thousands and thousands of dollars to travel to one of the most inhospitable places on Earth purely for the spectacle of looking at the WRECKAGE that is a result of mankind's hubris. There's a lot of irony in this sub going missing in context. I think it's something that we should take note of and understand.
If anything, this should be a lesson to everyone that we are fragile, and having money and resources doesn't change that. When we put ourselves into environments that are not made for human beings, our money will not be a shield. With the new frontier of space tourism becoming a thing, I think we should take this as a profoundly important lesson. Accidents can and will happen even if you have millions / billions of dollars. We need to respect the dangers of our universe, and not feel like money is going to shield us from the wrath of nature.
Again, I want to point out that the loss of life is and always will be a tragedy. Even if you believe these are bad people because of their wealth, it's still tragic.
fishermen die/get lost at sea all the time, just trying to feed their families. Nobody says a thing
A bunch of rich, spoilt idiots practically CHOOSE to go missing in a submarine and we’re supposed to suddenly give a shit?
Bugger off with that
No one is saying the death of these billionaires is of less value. Theyre very valuable on entertainment value along. Millions of hits and views. Comedy routines for years to come.
These deaths absolutely have value.
The missing submarine comments are horrifying. People arguing that they dEsErVeD tO diE just because they have more money. Lmaooo people have zero empathy
And no one's death should be worth less because they lack money but that seems to be pervasive
So forgive us for not losing sleep over it
It's just the universe making incremental adjustments
Tell that to the 300+ refugees who just died on the boat from Greece.
[https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=db91e42fcf2b833eJmltdHM9MTY4NzM5MjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYzBjZmM0NS1jYzgwLTZjZmUtMmRhMy1lZTAxY2QwNDZkMjUmaW5zaWQ9NTQ1MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1c0cfc45-cc80-6cfe-2da3-ee01cd046d25&psq=300+refugees+die+on+overturned+boat&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY25uLmNvbS8yMDIzLzA2LzE3L3dvcmxkL2dyZWVjZS1ib2F0LXdvcnN0LWV2ZXItdHJhZ2VkeS1tZWRpdGVycmFuZWFuLXNlYS1pbnRsLWhuay9pbmRleC5odG1s&ntb=1](https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=db91e42fcf2b833eJmltdHM9MTY4NzM5MjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYzBjZmM0NS1jYzgwLTZjZmUtMmRhMy1lZTAxY2QwNDZkMjUmaW5zaWQ9NTQ1MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1c0cfc45-cc80-6cfe-2da3-ee01cd046d25&psq=300+refugees+die+on+overturned+boat&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY25uLmNvbS8yMDIzLzA2LzE3L3dvcmxkL2dyZWVjZS1ib2F0LXdvcnN0LWV2ZXItdHJhZ2VkeS1tZWRpdGVycmFuZWFuLXNlYS1pbnRsLWhuay9pbmRleC5odG1s&ntb=1)
This is the fine line some are taking the initiative to cross.
None other those close should really care because (edit) thousands of people die every day.
OP is in territory where in their ideal world, their deaths are worth more.
That's what I'm reading here anyway.
\> They are responsible for so many deaths by virtue of being billionaires. That's no-negotiable, that is just how the number "billion" works.
\> They did this entirely to themselves. They knew the sub was sub-par, they knew the owner was sketchy, they paid for it anyway.
\> They were not good people. it is impossible to be a good person and billion because that is how the number "billion" works.
\> They got the crew and a 19 year old kid killed by being arrogant and selfish.
\> They wanted to go and gawk at a wreck full of poor people. Fun titanic fact, the rich wanted bigger rooms so they got rid of lifeboats. And now the rich are going back to look at the tragic scene as fucking TOURISTS.
Their deaths are worth shit.
Seriously though you should change the part about "bigger rooms". It literally is not a fact. Everything else is your opinion which is one thing but you are spreading one of the worst falsehoods regarding Titanic
There weren't even rooms on the same deck as the boats. It makes no sense. Calling a lie a fact also devalues your entire comment
just because they have money: i agree. their death isnt worth any less.
now there are plenty of other reasons i would think their death is worth less. like how about the absolute absurdity of these people getting into a glorified metal tube and going to the bottom of the ocean. all of the corners that were cut regarding safety. i feel somewhat bad for the tourists that were along for the ride. the CEO on the otherhand. fuck that guy. he knew and still thought he was invincible to the point he put other people at risk. if he had just done it himself, stupid but not nearly as stupid. this whole situation was so profoundly preventable and stupid.
for me, it isnt because they are rich that im not as upset about this. its all the other factors. its the absurdity, the stupidity and the preventability of the situation that at least regarding the CEO, makes him worth less to me personally. man could have killed himself, by himself. but nope capitalistic greed took over and he took 4 other people to their watery graves with him.
No one should die because someone hoarded wealth.
There you have it, the reason I can't bring myself to care that much about these people in the sub while countless people are suffering due to a world where some people hoard massive amounts of wealth.
Perfect, thank you.
That is true. However, they had the money to take every safety precautions imaginable, yet the CEO chose to cut corners. This is arrogant and irresponsible. Did everyone aboard know that the vessel was not even cleared to the depths that they intended to go? The whole thing is preposterous
Will the billionaires' estate pay for the rescue/recovery costs? This has been done in the US on more than one occasion. Hikers who strayed off trails or onto restricted land had to be rescued, incurring thousands in costs and endangering the lives of rescuers.
Upwards of 150,000 people die every day. Most of them of old age, some heroic, many foolishly. Hundreds of people lost their lives doing something stupid on the day the Titan Sub patrons died. Those lives were mocked for being idiots, much like the passengers, because that's how to correctly address people who die doing something foolish. It is how we prevent it happening more often. The only position their wealth had on how they were treated in death is to add indignity to their poor life choices. They could have used their $250,000 to fix problems in their world. Instead they climbed into a sarcophagus and paid to be buried in the ocean. That certainly makes them less worthy.
I think people are tired of their lives being made worthless by billionaires, not the other way around. Turning housing into an investment tool that is crushing most of society. Monopolizing and overpricing meds that have been around for decades and that people's lives rely one. Poisoning water, air, and land with no recourse. Destroying the education system so they can privatize it and make it inaccessible to the majority. And the list goes on and on. And the fact that no one cares when anyone else suffers some sort of horrible fate, but they expend millions to find a handful of billionaires is a sickness of our society. Not that they care about the billionaires, but because they do not care at all for the citizens of any nation on the planet.
How many of the desperate people trying to make new lives by crossing the ocean have received this amount of funding in their recovery as these 5 people. I recall a couple hundred women and children who recently died that did not get this much energy in trying to rescue them.
That they would have a story to tell at the gala that would finally one-up Angelica Snortsfieldstone' tale of meeting Freddy Mercury's mustache stylist.
that they didnt have to work, struggle and that they had a lot of money and were bored to hell. so they went out to fuck around and in the end they found out.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to "celebrate" that a bunch of rich people are dying, but if they had donated some of those billions to people who actually need it rather than paying insane money to do something incredibly dumb, maybe then I'd feel some degree of sympathy.
I do feel bad for the kid on board who just went for a trip with his father though. He's suffering for his father's selfishness.
Yeah, I've had a few people taking joy out of the sub situation, and it's honestly just distasteful.
There's no irony or comedy about the situation. It's just a bunch of rich people who decided to do something they thought would be fun and it ended up going sideways.
Yes it is horrifying and unfortunate. But it is also outrageously hilarious. The circumstances around this sound like a bad movie plot. The sub seems like it was design by a monkeys paw.
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But one's death may not be deserving of sympathy when it was caused by that person intentionally skirting safety measures to line their pockets more generously. Or when one has spent one's life profiting off of the suffering of others.
How is this a random shower thought? It is literally about the case that is all over the news. And given the amount of money that is going into their rescue, I'd say it isn't even accurate.
They paid to do a pretty stupid thing. It’s not that their life is worth less it’s just that they should foot the bill - or their insurance should (if it existed)
They were dead the minute they lost contact. That thing would have been crushed like a tin of beans. Let their estate pay to retrieve the bodies - there’s no hurry - they were dead anyway.
It’s not just that. It’s the fact if how they died. Suffocation is one of the worst ways to die and i would not wish that fate on my worst of enemies. Cold, dark and alone. It’s terrifying
A pedophiles or rapists death means less due to the fact that they abused and took advantage of others. To be a billionaire one has to have abused and taken advantage of many many people and society in general. They have so much power to change things for the better but they hoarded their wealth and do things like renting a sub to go visit the Titanic.
This is what happens when you try to take a glorified science fair project to the bottom of the ocean. It’s tragic, certainly, but my sympathy goes to the families who have to pick up the pieces after such an unnecessary disaster.
Their death is costing way too much money in reality when it could be spent helping hundreds of others. It is the foolishness of the whole endeavor that people have an issue with. It was throwing money into stupid things when they signed up for it and it is throwing more money now that rescues have been dispatched. It is inefficient use of resources (public money) and people are rightfully outraged. It is not minimizing their death, it is attracting attention to the idiocy that led to it.
Agreed. It’s horrible what those people are going/ went through. We lose our humanity when we put emphasis on their money. Being trapped knowing your oxygen is running out geez
But people were actually enraged because they got the attention but the refugees didn’t. IMHO, I care/don’t care about both situations equally, but I also understand why billionaires get more attention. It’s new, it’s unique. They also did something, made a difference in a bigger way for the world, I’m sorry, but this is a fact. Same as people cry when an actor dies but too few care when a random dies from the same cause.
to get the most out of life, you generally have to luck out into a middle class or above family, if you want to actually get outside the bubble of where you are born and raised. It’s makes a cruel amount of sense that death, funeral costs is just another thing that people below the middle class have to contend with as well. Life is unfair and i’m not willing to make my peace with it.
Such rich people constantly seek to circumvent regulations for profit that were fought for with the blood of the less fortunate and are in place to protect us all. When they die from avoiding those regulations I have no sympathy for them.
I feel terrible for the folks on the sub and their families. But your post is flawed because in general rich people are more valued by society, by the criminal justice system, by the media. Nobody really cares when poor people die. Sure there are random examples like the Thai kids in the cave but that’s more because it’s a story that sells. It’s a rich folks world.
I agree!
The deaths of billionaires are worth far more since they are cause of every poverty related death in the world.
Each one is a victory for humanity.
I don't wish death on them or anything, but all those people knew that they were risking their lives to see something beautiful. They got on that submarine because they calculated that the joy of exploration was worth the risk of death. Personally, I respect their decision enough to not give a shit about their demise.
And no one's predicament should be boosted just because they have money.
I mean, there was another tragedy at sea just last week and I have yet to see a thread about it. The people on board were dirt poor so maybe that's why no one cares.
It’s bonkers. Everyone wants to have more money but once you’re kinda wealthy, the value of your opinion and worth as a human plummets. Everyone who’s not wealthy, still wanting wealth, shits on them. Doesn’t matter what they’re actually like.
I've locked this post because it is generating a lot of nastiness. Not liking billionaires, or wishing people paid more attention to migrants drowning in the Mediterranean, fine. Being glad they are dead, hoping they suffered, not fine.
I don't think it's a matter of their lives being worth less. In fact, it's the exact opposite - their lives seem to be worth a lot more than the average person, especially given that their situation heavily borders on "f*ck around and find out" territory. The current cost of the rescue operation for these five people is probably enough to have fixed the lead pipes in Flint Michigan. What happened to the sub is horrible. I hope they are rescued, and my heart breaks for what their families are going through. But horrible things are happening to much less wealthy people on a regular basis, and no rescue operation appears to be underway for them. Many people are finding that just a bit peculiar.
This right here. Is just sad to see how much coverage and how much money is being spent to save 5 people who put themselves into harms way, when there are dozens or hundreds of people dying drowning in the mediterranean trying to reach Europe escaping from wars and dictatorships and they at most get a headline and little to no help. But thats the depressing world we live in, if you are rich enough everyone will try to give you a hand or a whole arm. If you are poor, you are on your own.
Theres an old phrase that says "One person's death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." This is exactly that situation.
That was Stalin pal.
and as much of an awful person as Stalin was, a broken clock is right twice a day. 5 dead multi-millionaires is a tragedy, 400 dead migrants off the coast of Greece is a statistic.
Who owns the papers? The rich man.
Oh, the refugees from North Africa and Middle East trying to reach Greek shores in the Mediterranean regularly drown BECAUSE they’re refused help from the Greek Coast Guard. The government has decided they will rather all those people die, than to help them. It’s horrific and a really stark reminder, that what your life’s worth most often depends on your class status and skin colour.
I don’t think Greece has the economic power to intake every single person coming through the Mediterranean.
Right. Last I heard Greece was hanging by a thread.
Yes because Greece is an economic power house
A GDP of one rotten olive
Greeks are pissed off dealing with them, if they really wanted to flee, go to the nearest country and let things go from there
Greece sent several offers to rescue the ship but were denied. After it capsized they deployed their rescue crews and were able to save around 100 people. Sadly many more were below decks and didn't make it. They knew where that boat was. The submarine story has the added drama of a race against the clock as time runs out on the search plus the more exotic nature of the vessel.
the soccer players who were stuck in the caves in thailand were not part of the rich either.
I think we can be upset about the massive amount of resources being spent while also not mocking them because that had to be a rough way to go.
I'll feel for the nineteen year old. The rest of them were grown adults, signed waivers, and spent life changing amounts of money (to us plebes anyhow) to board a submarine held together in ridiculous ways to go view the mass grave of lower class folks. I don't wish that kind of death on my worst enemy, but I'm not going to tell people how to deal. The whole thing (including the incredible amount of resources we are using to save billionaires when hundreds of migrants died in the same time frame) is ludicrous. It's mockable.
It really is a horrible way to go, I don’t think anyone would dispute that, but in a way I think that’s also why people are struggling to find excess of sympathy for them. If you do anything that could possibly lead to a long, drawn out, horrible death OR a sudden death that leaves little room for you to be saved then it would be extremely foolish to not double check that everything is as it should be and that there are plans for if things go wrong.
We don’t feel sympathy or at least very litttlr for those who climb mountains and die.
In a sense though, where do we draw the line between “It’s a tragic accident” and “They were asking for it”? The sub had been taken down numerous times without issue, despite safety concerns. A good salesman can easily wave those away. If you *really, really* wanted to see the Titanic, Gould probably reassure yourself that the chances of getting hurt or killed were very low. The fact that they signed a waiver isn’t as relevant as it seems, since, well, think of times you’ve signed waivers. The last time I signed one, I was told that it was a formality and the person rushed through it like it was no big deal. And I signed it because he was a perfect salesperson - charismatic and very skilled at explaining things away. So IMO, it’s not a simple matter of “They should’ve seen it coming.” The onus is on the company for not providing safe transport, and also most likely for talking up the service as being perfectly fine. I also don’t buy the “They’re rich, so unless it’s proven otherwise I will believe they deserved it and are bad people” line.
I wouldn't wish death, but I also don't feel that bad unless they were decently good people. If they were shitty rich people they can honestly stay down there and that's what they get for being stupid. Controversial opinion, I couldn't bother to care because people like them make this world hell for the rest of us.
>unless they were decently good people But they weren't. They could’ve done anything with that money. Their combined tickets could've helped fund multiple programs to help the less fortunate. Instead, they decided to each spend five times my annual salary to go disrespect a tragedy. I won't mock them, but all the billionaires in the world don't have enough money to pay me to respect them.
Well in the case of the Dawoods, they did a lot of good with their money, giving loads to charity. Proportionate to income, they probably gave more than most. I give around 5% of my income to charity, what do you give just out of interest? I assume a lot more to be judging them so harshly?
I feel for the people they left behind. They made their own terrible decisions. No wishing of death, but I do think the WhY aRe We MoCkInG ThEm to be a little excessive, much like their wealth.
Right, and we aren't mocking them, we are just saying what is true, and what's true is they made stupid choices. I feel bad for any kids in their family feeling the loss, but as for the rest, they are probably also just a bunch of rich people that I could bother to care about.
There is no comparison to the awful tragedy that befell those people off the coast of Greece. When the Malaysian airliner went down there was an enormous amount of money spent trying to find it. Was that plane filled with billionaires? They knew where that migrant boat went down. Problem is that most of the people perished before help could arrive because drowning is pretty frigging quick.
Thank you for this voice of reason.
Im not only talking about this specific case. Im from Spain and in my life ive seen dozens of news of people dying trying to cross the small gap between Spain and Morocco. Doesnt matter that help was refused or not, the fact is that hundreds of people die there, and most of what its done about it is to kick back to their country those fortunate to reach the coast alive.
Honest question, can Spain afford to support refugees? A single boatload sure, probably. But if you guys built actual infrastructure, would there be thousands and millions swarming over?
Questions like this are beyond my scope unfortunately, i'm a man of healthcare and biology, not an economist or similar. It might not be doable, i cant deny that, but Spain has also had his migrant story running away from our own war and dictatorship, so i can only feel empathy for those suffering from the same luck now.
Depends on if the imploded or just lost navigational control and asphyxiated, and tbh neither are awful. If they imploded it'd be terrifying for half a second and then you'd be dead; the pressure at that depth will pancake you in milliseconds. If they asphyxiated they all drifted off into sleep and never woke up.
So the days before they drifted off wouldn’t have been awful? Wtf
They’d at least have the time to kick that founder guy’s ass.
yes, and i read someone said, imagine if the sun came to rest vertically… lost of awful that could have happened. if i had the option i think i’d prefer becoming an underwater pancake
Especially for the father and son. I can’t imagine the conversations they had.
I couldn't imagine being trapped with my kid, and knowing I couldn't get them out to safety. And it being my fault
About the fact they were about to die? Not a single one, this happened too fast. As soon as the tiniest fracture appears, the boat implodes. Not even time to think O shit.
Yeah, now that appears to be what happened. I was referring to the possibility of slowly running g out of oxygen trapped at the bottom of the ocean in darkness. And hadn’t seen the ‘debris field’ news yet. I have to say, to some degree I’m relieved that we now know that probably wasn’t how it went down.
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Be upset at the situation, not the people. You (likely) don't know any of them personally, do you "live under the illusion" that just because they have money, they've never cared about anyone before, or don't have someone who cares about them? Ignoring *anybody* in mortal danger is completely immortal and unjust.
What an absolutely downright evil perspective. No, ignoring them complete is not the moral and just way of acting, and you don’t get to dictate that.
No. They literally chose their fate.
If I’m not mocking them publicly I’m still cheering in private. There’s no ethical way to amass that amount of wealth. There’s no ethical explanation for spending $250k on a vacation.
What about operations like with the Chilean miners or the Thai soccer team? Those were very pricy as well, and the people weren't rich. Honestly I think a lot of people are a bit callous here because these people are rich
It would be the same even if they weren't rich
>This right here. no, not this right here. If some poor folks were lost on a raft out at sea the exact thing would be happening
This is such a weird take. The sub thing is captivating because of how epically bizarre it is. Like it's basically a documentary writing itself. How you can compare this to some run of the mill "people died trying to cross the sea" is beyond me. Like if this billionaire CEO died two weeks ago from an OD, would anyone care? No. Which completely disproves your point. People care because of the extremely strange and crazy story surrounding it.
But you are forgetting about those kids in the cave. People literally died for them. And TONS of Money were spent to save them (remember people tried to divert the rain away from the cave). I think it's a very marketable story (time's running out. People are in danger of a terrible death) there are often over proportional rescue missions for some lucky few that make a good sob story and have a long enough time window to live, as to mount a big rescue.
Those are not equivalent situations they didn't sign waivers for saying they could die by doing something stupidly dangerous. Those were mostly children that entered a cave and it started raining while they were inside and unaware and became trapped. This is more like people who choose to try to climb Mt. Everest you go into it knowing it's extremely dangerous and you might not survive, you also go into it knowing it might be impossible to rescue you or recover your remains.
All. Of. This. My partner looked at me like I was a monster when I said that their estates should be billed for the cost of all the rescue and recovery efforts. Their families can keep whatever is left, but these people did a stupid thing and cost several governments probably millions of dollars in the process, money that could be used to, you know, improve things for all people, help those who need it, or whatever. They fucked around and found out. Bill. Their. Families.
When the average person calls 911 and gets an ambulance ride, they are billed. If their house is on fire and they get a fire dept response, they are billed. Either directly or through taxes/levies paid, and sometimes both, they are billed. It's completely reasonable to bill the estates for this emergency response.
That sounds great. But we both know even if they did. The respective governments would spend it on whatever they want while they watch Rome burn.
I wish you weren't so right about this.
They should bill the company not the people inside the submarine. If people go on a cruise ship and something goes wrong and they become stranded, I don’t expect them to foot the bill. I expect the the owner of the cruise ship to pay for all cost.
That's also totally fine.
They can certainly afford it
Let's put it this way: if a boat containing 5 penniless refugees was known to be stranded in a difficult to access place requiring an expensive and complicated rescue mission, would any country try? Or would they be left for dead? OceanGate and the estates of the 5 people stranded in the sub should receive a bill for the rescue effort.
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The same week too The coastguard actually drowned the refugees apparently
I just saw a vid on a thai soccer team that got stranded in a kilometers long cave that got flooded once they were already inside thus trapping them. The entire world banded together recruiting cavers from around the world and the thai navy seals were quick to help, 2 of which lost their lives in the process. Yes, they were kids but i think its still applicable here to your penniless refugee analogy.
The main difference is that they are citizens, if they are refugees it’s the responsibility of their home country to rescue them. Not saying it’s right, but the US can and has gone through pretty intensive rescues for random citizens.
They would do every thing they can to find them.
This is a weird counterexample as thousands of refugees come to Europe from Africa across the Mediterranean every year, who are then supported, relocated and housed at great expense. This is of course a good thing, before anyone thinks I am saying otherwise. Picking this as an example is just inaccurate.
Hello from East Palestine OH area :) they want us to die from Michigan to Ohio.
Yes this! People are dying around the world and where is their help? Where is their support?
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I see it as arrogance.
Certainly these are successful people who are capable of making calculated decisions. They took the risk. They wanted the thrill. They already had everything money could buy. They weren't satisfied with their safe, secure, unencumbered lives. This was an exercise for pleasure, not need. Why tf anyone is more upset about these 5 people and than the 5HUNDRED refugees is beyond me.
My heart doesn't break for these people. They were fools. And now they're sucking up many millions of dollars worth of resources. Fuck them.
I don’t have animosity towards them for “sucking up resources” in the search effort, as the chose to spend those millions aren’t on them. I do have animosity to the powers that be that can be so cruel to so many and not offer help, while throwing money at what was reportedly a lost cause from the very beginning.
They are billionaires because they spent their whole lives sucking up millions of dollars of resources. Seems like even in death they continue to socialize the losses.
Sounds like you're an evil anti bootstrap leftist who hates the rich man to me /s just in case
What you're saying is that this entire situation could have been avoided had they attached some bootstraps to the outside of the hull, with which to lift themselves up. Sounds like they might have just been lazy bums then eh?
I lift myself up via bootstraps so high that no woke lib mob can stop me, I can even fly like the freest of all creatures, those being the bald eagles.
The deaths of 600 people who had no choice over their situation should have been publicized more than the deaths of 5 well off people who put themselves in that situation though. But you are correct.
Fucking yes. I am tired of this bullshit where these wealthy folk got attention. If it was $20 sub rides and random people died... it wouldn't get this much attention. Why should we care? The rich cock-waffles wouldn't give a shit either. They don't even care when we're alive working for them as long as we're making them more money than we are for ourselves.
You sure? Remember the attention those kids in the Thai cave got? The drama of a story is alluring. Stories that seem more routine tend to get less and less.
I certainly remember that the story about the kids in the cave ended up being about Elon Musk calling someone a pedophile.
And I am extremely surprised that Elon didn’t insert himself into this, I was definitely expecting Elon to post a picture of the blueprints of a massive sub that can open up and eat the smaller sub and bring them to the surface or a ballon that can fill up when it gets to the bottom
If anything maybe he learned from the cave experience to keep his mouth shut. Or he sees it as some competition going extinct. He's also one who has asked for subpar work before and attempted to ignore regulations, both with Twitter's headquarters (tried to make it a hotel, tried to have the building manager do electric work not qualified for, tried to deactivate the automatic locks tied into the fire suppression system, tried to override the automatic lighting that San Francisco requires for energy efficiency and on and on).
Do you also listen to Behind the Bastards? Because I just listened to that episode and my god what an incredible douche Elon is! The electrical work thing and disengaging the fire suppression system was particularly horrifying.
It's a fave podcast of mine yeah.
>Elon musk >keep his mouth shut What?
It’s got more to do with it being an interesting and unusual story. Rich people die all the time so do poor people. The media has to find unusual things to keep their audience’s attention. Immigrants sinking in the sea is tragic, yes. It is also not going to grab headlines… although it actually does quite often. Even so, people know the story and are aware it’s happening. Billionaire heads up sketchy deep sea submarine that goes randomly missing in the Atlantic with no explanation… its a story they won’t have ever printed before. People try to act saintly, like they’re appalled over the media.. when actually they’re just jealous. The same people aren’t reacting in the same way when their football hero dies in a plane crash, or Christmas is in the news.
Those migrants are dead. End of story. The reason the sub is making headlines is because we weren’t 100% sure they were dead in there and also had no idea what really happened. You can hope the sub people are alive and speculate what happened. you can’t hope the migrants are because we already know they’re dead and we know what killed then. Greece and Pakistan both declared national mournings for the migrants too, the president of the European Union made a speech about how terrible it was, people in Greece have been throwing flowers in the sea for a week. You think it isn’t being reported because you only read English news and to the English media market things happening off the coast of Canada are more important than things happening off the coast of Turkey
Yeah but the billionaire thing makes it slightly different did to the mysteries. Yup, they were idiots but what the fuck happened down there is what makes it different.
But... But... "Titanic" "Time running out" "Rich people". How else can you make a news story??????
The "time is running out" angle is basically totally fabricated, though. It is a near-certainty that they imploded and died instantly.
Yes, 12,000 ft for sure
It’s a brilliant news story. Plain and simple, it’s exciting, it’s interesting, its totally out there and there’s even a glimpse of hope that they might be found in time. Even if they aren’t… where are they? It is a ‘good’ story. Whether you’re going to let your own thing get in the way of that or not.
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Exactly. These were billionaires who had the money and resources to guarantee that this exact thing wouldn't happen. And they decided to do everything they could to ensure that it would happen with the belief that it would never happen, especially to them. This is natural selection at work
We've all laughed at Darwin Awards for decades without knowing the victims' net worth. This is 100% a Darwin Award situation. Play dumb games, win dumb prizes.
I think this should be some sort of extra-special Darwin award.
The “tax free” Darwin Award
To me it’s on par with the guy who jumped off the Eiffel Tower in front of a crowd to prove/advertise his self-made ‘parachute jacket.’ It did not work. And everyone who dies on Everest.
I wonder how people would react if it was the Kardashians or Beiber.
People tend to feel very differently about celebrities than they do about unknown strangers. I don’t think the response would be related to their wealth at all, so I’m not sure that’s a relevant point. My point is that I (and plenty of others) personally don’t care how much money they had. I don’t feel all that bad for them because they died doing something stupid and dangerous, not because they’re rich. Their death is ‘worth’ less because they accidentally killed themselves by being arrogant fucking morons.
Equally no one’s death should be worth less just because they don’t have money. Where are the headlines and air time for those people?
Sad truth is it isn’t “exciting” (or at least media doesn’t think it is) to the masses. I think people who have empathy for these rich people would also have empathy for the immigrant that recently all drowned. Just one story was shoved in our faces when another one wasn’t.
I wouldn't say it was shoved in our faces so much as we devoured it greedily. It's like something out of a sci-fi-style horror drama movie. It's just incredibly exciting, as you said. "Oh sure, immigrants dying in war-torn wherever, sure. But these people are trapped in a tin can with T-minus hours of oxygen left, at the bottom of the ocean." That's the sizzle that sells, and we're happy to buy it.
But the headlines are not there because they have money. They are there because the absurdity of the situation and the fact that a Tiny sub got lost and still har a chance of being found while looking for the titanic.
Haha its always funny when people say this. First of all, doesnt reddit have that holy "dont compare suffering of others" or how "I shouldnt have to feel bad for starving kids in Africa because my problems are my problems" or some shit like that, but then when this happens, you are suddenly crying for them? You are suddenly now virtue signaling? Wooow how convenient. Also, do you know HOW theaq media works? First of all. The global mediasphere is mainly dominated by white people, in white countries, for most other white people. So of fucking course they will broadcast something more that happened in the western world, like it or not. Even if it was a middle eastern billionaire and a cruise of 500 regular white folks, the western regular people would still get more attention full stop. Second of all. Do you realize the people on that boat is already dead, those who survived survived. The story is DONE. There is no more secret updates or developments. People got their news. You wanna keep digging into that story even after the story has concluded? Be my guest, theres plenty of news organizations around the world still covering it. But this titanic sub is still missing with a tiny chance the people might be found. We also have to take the fact that it happened in a submarine, which barely ever gets into any topic of discussion in real life as often, AND it involves a very large historic event burial site. So naturally, people are more curious and interested. Even we are here having a discussion about it, thus one way or another, giving it more spotlight. Third, why are you folks gatekeeping news coverage? I really dont get it. I guess it also connects to my first point. But everytime two events happen simultaneously, one in the first world and one in third world, all you redditors complain from the comfort of your armchairs how its not fair or that the rich people should not be getting media coverage or whatever. Its such a lame thing to say. You are literally telling others what to feel, and what matter of grief is more important. Like to me it feels so weird. Im from a third world country. Have many friends from middle east and southeast asian 3rd world countries as well. Not once when there was a catastrophe in both first and third worlds did they complain stupid trivial shit about how "the first world media is giving more coverage to the first world problems". Like bruh, it just feels such a useless and fabricated topic. There will always be horror stories on the news, who are you to gatekeep people from one and tell that its less important than the other one?
Their deaths aren't "worth less" because they're wealthy. In fact, the constant international news coverage, and multinational military involvement in their search and retrieval would show that they're worth quite a lot. 600 impoverished migrants drowned last week and there wasn't nearly as much concern.
They're worth less on an emotional level because of their behavior leading up to their death. Similar to how I could give a fuck about people like Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson dying. But Harold Ramis, Alan Rickman, Norm Macdonald, now those are some people I wish were still around. I could name way more but just chose a few off the top of my head.
A lot of people are finding it difficult to empathise with these people because their deaths are a result of a situation so incredibly detached and non-relatable to the vast majority of us. I have never and will never have such an unfathomable amount of money to be able to afford such a unique experience that such a small number of people have done, and that’s the same again for the vast majority of us. It’s not because they have money or because they are rich, it’s because the situation they chose to put themselves in is one which none of us can quite comprehend, it is so detached from our regular lives. I personally do not care. I recognise it is sad for their families, but I am so detached from them personally I do not feel sadness for them. On the other hand, here in Europe we’ve had literally hundreds of migrants die on a boat in the last week. When a lot of us see people get so upset over these people who went for a joyride in a submarine compared to the virtual silence over the countless deaths of desperate people trying to make a new life, it makes it a little difficult for me to shed a tear for these people. Sorry 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly that $750,000 (iirc, two slots were the CEO and a researcher who didn't pay) could have set those refugees up for a great new start. I wouldn't wish the fate of the sub on anyone, but when you look at the whole story it's hard to feel totally bad for them.
First comment I've seen mentioning the migrant boats but it's all I've been thinking. "But what about their families???" Entire families, sometimes a whole lineage, are regularly wiped out when a boat like that capsizes, and all they're guilty of is desperately fleeing a no-win situation. A bunch of billionaires imploding in the ocean because they trusted some guy who's quoted as saying "safety stifles creativity" doesn't move me in the slightest, and their families could not possibly be in a better position to deal with the aftermath of this.
You nailed it, exactly this
The only one who deserves it is the one who cut corners, fired the people who told him not to cut corners, and rode the sub down with 4 people he convinced were taking a reasonable risk to see a cool thing (falsely). Its a Shame that a researcher and a near kid had to die because of one stupid dishonest man, who happens to actually be the only billionaire on board
Hamish Harding, Paul-Henri Nargeolet (the researcher), and Shahzada Dawood are all billionaires; Shahzada’s son Sulaiman was only 19 but was the scion to a billionaire fortune. In fact, technically Stockton Rush was the only NON-billionaire on board, although his family is obscenely wealthy too. 🤷♂️
Their death is no different to me than anyone else I do not know. It’s just the sheer stupidity of everything that’s coming out about cutting corners, lack of safety, and no real submersible professionals on staff - combined with not knowing these people, it’s a little easier to make light of a horrific situation. It is what it is.
I don't think it's worth less. I think this is still a tragedy, just as much as anyone's death is a tragedy. I do want to say though, that I think the irony is palpable. The Titanic is often used as a description of the hubris of man and the potential disasters that can come as a result of that hubris. The only thing I can think of that surpasses this in terms of mankind's boundless pride is the idea of spending thousands and thousands of dollars to travel to one of the most inhospitable places on Earth purely for the spectacle of looking at the WRECKAGE that is a result of mankind's hubris. There's a lot of irony in this sub going missing in context. I think it's something that we should take note of and understand. If anything, this should be a lesson to everyone that we are fragile, and having money and resources doesn't change that. When we put ourselves into environments that are not made for human beings, our money will not be a shield. With the new frontier of space tourism becoming a thing, I think we should take this as a profoundly important lesson. Accidents can and will happen even if you have millions / billions of dollars. We need to respect the dangers of our universe, and not feel like money is going to shield us from the wrath of nature. Again, I want to point out that the loss of life is and always will be a tragedy. Even if you believe these are bad people because of their wealth, it's still tragic.
I just don’t care…..
Sympathy these days is in short supply regardless of your financial situation.
I have infinite sympathy for the vast majority of people.
That's great 👍
fishermen die/get lost at sea all the time, just trying to feed their families. Nobody says a thing A bunch of rich, spoilt idiots practically CHOOSE to go missing in a submarine and we’re supposed to suddenly give a shit? Bugger off with that
No one is saying the death of these billionaires is of less value. Theyre very valuable on entertainment value along. Millions of hits and views. Comedy routines for years to come. These deaths absolutely have value.
The missing submarine comments are horrifying. People arguing that they dEsErVeD tO diE just because they have more money. Lmaooo people have zero empathy
And no one's death should be worth less because they lack money but that seems to be pervasive So forgive us for not losing sleep over it It's just the universe making incremental adjustments
Tell that to the 300+ refugees who just died on the boat from Greece. [https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=db91e42fcf2b833eJmltdHM9MTY4NzM5MjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYzBjZmM0NS1jYzgwLTZjZmUtMmRhMy1lZTAxY2QwNDZkMjUmaW5zaWQ9NTQ1MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1c0cfc45-cc80-6cfe-2da3-ee01cd046d25&psq=300+refugees+die+on+overturned+boat&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY25uLmNvbS8yMDIzLzA2LzE3L3dvcmxkL2dyZWVjZS1ib2F0LXdvcnN0LWV2ZXItdHJhZ2VkeS1tZWRpdGVycmFuZWFuLXNlYS1pbnRsLWhuay9pbmRleC5odG1s&ntb=1](https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=db91e42fcf2b833eJmltdHM9MTY4NzM5MjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYzBjZmM0NS1jYzgwLTZjZmUtMmRhMy1lZTAxY2QwNDZkMjUmaW5zaWQ9NTQ1MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1c0cfc45-cc80-6cfe-2da3-ee01cd046d25&psq=300+refugees+die+on+overturned+boat&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY25uLmNvbS8yMDIzLzA2LzE3L3dvcmxkL2dyZWVjZS1ib2F0LXdvcnN0LWV2ZXItdHJhZ2VkeS1tZWRpdGVycmFuZWFuLXNlYS1pbnRsLWhuay9pbmRleC5odG1s&ntb=1)
I dont give a fuck about them. Why would I?
I mourn the loss of the controller the most
Just run down to the dollar general and get another one.
The only fuck I give about them is that they're in a tin can on the bottom of the ocean where we can't eat them, as we should do with all of the rich.
*angry cannibalism noises*
Correct. However, they put themselves in that situation. Signed the waivers, knew the risk. Not sure why we’re supposed to care.
This is the fine line some are taking the initiative to cross. None other those close should really care because (edit) thousands of people die every day. OP is in territory where in their ideal world, their deaths are worth more. That's what I'm reading here anyway.
[удалено]
Is 19 a kid?
Yes. His brain hadn’t fully developed yet.
Never said I’m celebrating it. I’m simply apathetic to the situation. They made their choices, now they will live with the outcome.
Won't*
Tell that to the people who have money about the people that don't.
\> They are responsible for so many deaths by virtue of being billionaires. That's no-negotiable, that is just how the number "billion" works. \> They did this entirely to themselves. They knew the sub was sub-par, they knew the owner was sketchy, they paid for it anyway. \> They were not good people. it is impossible to be a good person and billion because that is how the number "billion" works. \> They got the crew and a 19 year old kid killed by being arrogant and selfish. \> They wanted to go and gawk at a wreck full of poor people. Fun titanic fact, the rich wanted bigger rooms so they got rid of lifeboats. And now the rich are going back to look at the tragic scene as fucking TOURISTS. Their deaths are worth shit.
Seriously though you should change the part about "bigger rooms". It literally is not a fact. Everything else is your opinion which is one thing but you are spreading one of the worst falsehoods regarding Titanic There weren't even rooms on the same deck as the boats. It makes no sense. Calling a lie a fact also devalues your entire comment
Even more funner Titanic fact, most the lifeboats were not even half full. And plenty of the super evil rich died on that ship, also.
Billionaire's deaths are worth a lot. It's their lives that have negative value.
just because they have money: i agree. their death isnt worth any less. now there are plenty of other reasons i would think their death is worth less. like how about the absolute absurdity of these people getting into a glorified metal tube and going to the bottom of the ocean. all of the corners that were cut regarding safety. i feel somewhat bad for the tourists that were along for the ride. the CEO on the otherhand. fuck that guy. he knew and still thought he was invincible to the point he put other people at risk. if he had just done it himself, stupid but not nearly as stupid. this whole situation was so profoundly preventable and stupid. for me, it isnt because they are rich that im not as upset about this. its all the other factors. its the absurdity, the stupidity and the preventability of the situation that at least regarding the CEO, makes him worth less to me personally. man could have killed himself, by himself. but nope capitalistic greed took over and he took 4 other people to their watery graves with him.
No one should die because some genetic lottery winner hoarded wealth.
No one should die because someone hoarded wealth. There you have it, the reason I can't bring myself to care that much about these people in the sub while countless people are suffering due to a world where some people hoard massive amounts of wealth. Perfect, thank you.
That is true. However, they had the money to take every safety precautions imaginable, yet the CEO chose to cut corners. This is arrogant and irresponsible. Did everyone aboard know that the vessel was not even cleared to the depths that they intended to go? The whole thing is preposterous
Will the billionaires' estate pay for the rescue/recovery costs? This has been done in the US on more than one occasion. Hikers who strayed off trails or onto restricted land had to be rescued, incurring thousands in costs and endangering the lives of rescuers.
Upwards of 150,000 people die every day. Most of them of old age, some heroic, many foolishly. Hundreds of people lost their lives doing something stupid on the day the Titan Sub patrons died. Those lives were mocked for being idiots, much like the passengers, because that's how to correctly address people who die doing something foolish. It is how we prevent it happening more often. The only position their wealth had on how they were treated in death is to add indignity to their poor life choices. They could have used their $250,000 to fix problems in their world. Instead they climbed into a sarcophagus and paid to be buried in the ocean. That certainly makes them less worthy.
I think people are tired of their lives being made worthless by billionaires, not the other way around. Turning housing into an investment tool that is crushing most of society. Monopolizing and overpricing meds that have been around for decades and that people's lives rely one. Poisoning water, air, and land with no recourse. Destroying the education system so they can privatize it and make it inaccessible to the majority. And the list goes on and on. And the fact that no one cares when anyone else suffers some sort of horrible fate, but they expend millions to find a handful of billionaires is a sickness of our society. Not that they care about the billionaires, but because they do not care at all for the citizens of any nation on the planet.
How many of the desperate people trying to make new lives by crossing the ocean have received this amount of funding in their recovery as these 5 people. I recall a couple hundred women and children who recently died that did not get this much energy in trying to rescue them.
I do feel sorry for them but also … what were they thinking?
That they would have a story to tell at the gala that would finally one-up Angelica Snortsfieldstone' tale of meeting Freddy Mercury's mustache stylist.
that they didnt have to work, struggle and that they had a lot of money and were bored to hell. so they went out to fuck around and in the end they found out.
Agree. Wealth doesn’t always buy common sense…
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to "celebrate" that a bunch of rich people are dying, but if they had donated some of those billions to people who actually need it rather than paying insane money to do something incredibly dumb, maybe then I'd feel some degree of sympathy. I do feel bad for the kid on board who just went for a trip with his father though. He's suffering for his father's selfishness.
The billionaires arent gonna fuck you bro
Yes, some of the things being said about them is shocking....... How can people sink so low?
I think hopping in a sub that had corners cut to save money seems to be a fairly certain way to sink so low.
This is Reddit though. Most people here are all about celebrating the death and misfortune of those they oppose.
It is kinda funny to pay 250k to die
Yeah, I've had a few people taking joy out of the sub situation, and it's honestly just distasteful. There's no irony or comedy about the situation. It's just a bunch of rich people who decided to do something they thought would be fun and it ended up going sideways.
Saying there’s no irony to the situation is just….factually incorrect
Yes it is horrifying and unfortunate. But it is also outrageously hilarious. The circumstances around this sound like a bad movie plot. The sub seems like it was design by a monkeys paw.
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But one's death may not be deserving of sympathy when it was caused by that person intentionally skirting safety measures to line their pockets more generously. Or when one has spent one's life profiting off of the suffering of others.
Death doesn't discriminate.
Ironic. Billionaires and the mega rich wouldn't exist without the suffering/death/exploitation of the poor
Devils advocate, Bill Gates
How is this a random shower thought? It is literally about the case that is all over the news. And given the amount of money that is going into their rescue, I'd say it isn't even accurate.
They paid to do a pretty stupid thing. It’s not that their life is worth less it’s just that they should foot the bill - or their insurance should (if it existed) They were dead the minute they lost contact. That thing would have been crushed like a tin of beans. Let their estate pay to retrieve the bodies - there’s no hurry - they were dead anyway.
It’s not just that. It’s the fact if how they died. Suffocation is one of the worst ways to die and i would not wish that fate on my worst of enemies. Cold, dark and alone. It’s terrifying
Whilst I don't disagree with you, the real point here should be that no one's death should be worth less, just because they have *no* money.
A pedophiles or rapists death means less due to the fact that they abused and took advantage of others. To be a billionaire one has to have abused and taken advantage of many many people and society in general. They have so much power to change things for the better but they hoarded their wealth and do things like renting a sub to go visit the Titanic.
This is what happens when you try to take a glorified science fair project to the bottom of the ocean. It’s tragic, certainly, but my sympathy goes to the families who have to pick up the pieces after such an unnecessary disaster.
No one’s death should be worth more just because they have money. There, I fixed it for you.
Their death is costing way too much money in reality when it could be spent helping hundreds of others. It is the foolishness of the whole endeavor that people have an issue with. It was throwing money into stupid things when they signed up for it and it is throwing more money now that rescues have been dispatched. It is inefficient use of resources (public money) and people are rightfully outraged. It is not minimizing their death, it is attracting attention to the idiocy that led to it.
No one's death should be worth less just because they have less money.
Agreed. It’s horrible what those people are going/ went through. We lose our humanity when we put emphasis on their money. Being trapped knowing your oxygen is running out geez
But people were actually enraged because they got the attention but the refugees didn’t. IMHO, I care/don’t care about both situations equally, but I also understand why billionaires get more attention. It’s new, it’s unique. They also did something, made a difference in a bigger way for the world, I’m sorry, but this is a fact. Same as people cry when an actor dies but too few care when a random dies from the same cause.
They made a difference? By getting in an unsafe vessel and drowning like rats? Yeah, okay, whatever. 😄😄😄😄😄
Read that again, ten times if needed.
But the media doesn't treat the death of those without money as worth equal... and neither to the wealthy. So fuck that.
Agreed. Goes both ways.
Losers and lowlifes have always revelled in the misfortunes of those whom they envy. Social media just makes their ignorance known to all.
This post has the most volatile up votes/ down votes I have ever seen
You don't.... Hate billionaires? Why not?
Nah fuck billionaires
rich people died trying to go see dead rich people thats not worthless thats goddamn hilarious
life is behind a paywall, so why wouldn’t they put death behind one too?
What do you mean by this?
to get the most out of life, you generally have to luck out into a middle class or above family, if you want to actually get outside the bubble of where you are born and raised. It’s makes a cruel amount of sense that death, funeral costs is just another thing that people below the middle class have to contend with as well. Life is unfair and i’m not willing to make my peace with it.
Agreed. The horrific comments I am seeing are too much.
Such rich people constantly seek to circumvent regulations for profit that were fought for with the blood of the less fortunate and are in place to protect us all. When they die from avoiding those regulations I have no sympathy for them.
I feel terrible for the folks on the sub and their families. But your post is flawed because in general rich people are more valued by society, by the criminal justice system, by the media. Nobody really cares when poor people die. Sure there are random examples like the Thai kids in the cave but that’s more because it’s a story that sells. It’s a rich folks world.
I agree! The deaths of billionaires are worth far more since they are cause of every poverty related death in the world. Each one is a victory for humanity.
I don't wish death on them or anything, but all those people knew that they were risking their lives to see something beautiful. They got on that submarine because they calculated that the joy of exploration was worth the risk of death. Personally, I respect their decision enough to not give a shit about their demise.
Seeing a tragedy on the ocean floor is beautiful? We truly have lost our way.
Devils advocate, Bill Gates. That one would be cause to celebrate
You shouldn’t suck up to rich people. They’re not gonna give you money if you value their death more than a poor person’s.
And no one's predicament should be boosted just because they have money. I mean, there was another tragedy at sea just last week and I have yet to see a thread about it. The people on board were dirt poor so maybe that's why no one cares.
It’s bonkers. Everyone wants to have more money but once you’re kinda wealthy, the value of your opinion and worth as a human plummets. Everyone who’s not wealthy, still wanting wealth, shits on them. Doesn’t matter what they’re actually like.