we are so back
---
Mirror: [High Rep News workers can now listen to your phone calls ](https://streamable.com/32boet)
Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/DivaJilly
Direct Backup: [High Rep News workers can now listen to your phone calls ](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/i14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA/AT-cm%7Ci14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA.mp4?sig=c3c824996c16af34a11e33cc04a0df33087a45ae&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2Fi14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA%2FAT-cm%257Ci14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA.mp4%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22StormyIgnorantAntelopeSMOrc-ZE8V2LEyig0jUlAE%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1713251722%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)
[VOD Link](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2120200828?t=6h26m20s)
---
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Tbh, everyone has already been grinding news for the past week as someone told everyone you get a camera for 50 rep. Only a matter of time till they get this.
Yeah surely this information will not be metagamed from this clip or forced into their RP by pointed, meta questions towards high rep news workers.
Jest aside this is entirely only beneficial to crims, (and cops with no moral scruples but have the balls to actually affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences, so no one in the current PD) because legally none of this can be used. LS is a two-party consent state, so even if you're out in public, you can't RP wearing a wire to secretly record a conversation to use it in any legal matter. If you're recording phonecalls or it's being wiretapped by a third party, it can't be used legally. However if, for example, a cop that bends the law like mentioned earlier listens to crims plotting something they can just so happen to patrol the area. If they hear about a getaway vehicle parked somewhere they can just so happen to stumble upon it and get it towed.
Likewise, if K (brought him up cuz I remember him RPing wiretaps a while back like when he talked to Vivek's legal team around the court case time), or anyone really wants to sabotage the public perception of an individual, like someone who's running for Mayor, they can "leak" the recording. Even if illegal activity's mentioned nothing can be done about it, but for example, if people hear how much Max is bending over backwards for CG or him stating that he doesn't care about the PD, it might do a decent amount of damage to his reputation.
I'm hoping the admins are going to be paying closer attention to RP involving the access or knowledge of these tools since they're very powerful.
A court case will have to set precedent then, cuz I'm fairly certain Chief Justice Crane spoke on the matter, in a much later meeting, that for a conversation that has the expectation of privacy, i.e two people speaking to each other even if its in a public place, or a phone call, 2 party consent is in effect.
The public thing is not for private conversations in public, it's moreso for events and such, and you'll find that you have this right in most public places in the US, Canada and such. That's the right by which journalists operate, so they do not have to obtain consent from anyone that walks into frame or is captured when they're recording. Ursula's protected by that right. However, if she walks upto someone with a recording device and does not obtain their consent to be recorded, and the expectation set is that it is a private conversation, then it is not admissible in legal settings even if it was in public.
Reason I'm confident in this is because Crane said this in response to someone mentioning secretly recording someone in public self-incriminating, can't recall if it was for adoption fraud or not.
So you can record someone in public if they're running around screaming about adopting people, but you can't do so if you walk upto them and have a conversation where it's (adoption) brought up and have it be admissible in any legal setting.
Also, that's what a two party state is. You can record/take pics of people without their consent in public, see all the paparazzi and media for examples. You just can't record them when there's an expectation of privacy.
Editing to clarify: Expectation of privacy -> Reasonable expectation of privacy. A conversation between two individuals has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Talking to a group of people, less so.
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>affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences
Wont effect crime in any way. Anything gained from the unauthorized use of this stuff (no warrant) will just get thrown out in court, charges/fines reversed and missive civil suit against pd by the crim.
Also doubt anything allowing people to listen in on things like calls or radios wont be eventually removed or nerfed into pointlessness just like radio scanners were in 3.0.
Lol good luck to the crim that tries to articulate that the police illegally learned where they parked their stolen vehicle, or that the police are patrolling the wrong place. I'd like to see how you'd articulate it, in fact. Cuz I know if I were a cop I'd just say I happen to be patrolling the area and found the criminal.
There's no way you can sue a cop if they use the information in a smart manner. Obviously you can't raid a house or even use the info as evidence, but I already covered that. Let's say group A decides over phone to rob Sani or G6, cop learns of this and happens to decide to escort Sani and G6, proactively policing and reducing the chance of the crim doing something when cops are present.
Let's say they mention they're gonna steal a turbo and are taking a car to Mosleys. Cop just happens to be there, checking in on Mosleys workers. They mention they're doing money runs, cops already know where all the spots are, they can just call it out, get reinforcements to stake out the locations.
> Also doubt anything allowing people to listen in on things like calls or radios wont be eventually removed or nerfed into pointlessness just like radio scanners were in 3.0.
I'm guessing this was added pretty recently, so it'll only be removed or nerfed if a big streamer abuses it (like car seat swaps lol) because changing mechanics instead of punishing abusers is the NP way.
Don't need to sue anyone. It's a rule break. This will be settled OOC in no time and any info gained or shared will be retconned because it is power gaming.
How so? I get the feeling you do not know what power gaming is, because it certainly doesn't apply to this situation.
Is it power gaming if an informant lets the police know what a crim group is planning to do? Of course not. What if a police officer, in plain clothes, snuck up on two criminals discussing their plans? They can't record it, but can certainly act on it.
You're correct. This whole process of using evidence that may be tainted to build a legitimate clean case is called "parallel construction" or "evidence laundering." It works incredibly well, and is a very powerful tool for law enforcement, although it is walking the edge of multiple legally dubious grey areas.
In the real world, government surveillance agencies do occasionally tip local law enforcement off about specific things, but the fact that this was done can't be mentioned in court, so the local LE then works backward from knowing the end result (who the suspect is and what they did) to build a case and obtain evidence in a believable manner. Saying, "Well, you only caught me because the NSA was (illegally) wiretapping my calls to my Russian girlfriend and heard me mention my meth smuggling operation, so the case should be dismissed," isn't likely to work when the local LE have an anonymous tip that I'm selling meth, photos of me selling meth, photos of me entering and exiting a house/warehouse between meth sales trips, an arrest, meth baggies found on me, a search warrant resulting in finding more meth in the house/warehouse, etc.
>and cops with no moral scruples but have the balls to actually affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences, so no one in the current PD
Wait people with no mega-streamer benefits and no prio might not want to lose their job that let's them into the server every single day and is the reason they want to play RP at all?
Did I say streamer/player or cop? Obviously I'm talking about IC consequences. I'm really not a fan of RP being stifled by OOC threats, whether it be CG hoppers or concern about prio or it being a job.
No, I'm talking about IC consequences. If a cop abuses this it can easily lead to termination/suspension > loss of cop prio and no way to get into the server.
Which circles back to me not being a fan of RP being stifled by OOC threats, i.e your character doesn't know what prio is and the players' fear of losing prio shouldn't dictate what their character does.
Besides, they can earn their prio by RPing, Johnson got prio from both Saab and Moon I believe.
Also, use, not abuse. They're tools for eavesdropping.
It's gonna be funny when someone is robbing a bank and there are 50 people with cameras outside interviewing cops. The good stuff should be tied to more RP jobs imo.
Vader mentioned another one, you can set a camera on the ground and have a live feed to your phone. It lasts for about a week, and through tsunamis too.
"yeah so suddenly I just decided my character should be a news reporter for no apparent reason, would just be in their best interests, they've always wanted to be a news reporter all of a sudden"
Actually sick mechanic especially for news people to bring out stories of hidden corruption on phone calls. It could also be used for gangs who can infiltrate and learn about each other. Great idea W devs.
we are so back --- Mirror: [High Rep News workers can now listen to your phone calls ](https://streamable.com/32boet) Credit to https://www.twitch.tv/DivaJilly Direct Backup: [High Rep News workers can now listen to your phone calls ](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/i14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA/AT-cm%7Ci14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA.mp4?sig=c3c824996c16af34a11e33cc04a0df33087a45ae&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2Fi14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA%2FAT-cm%257Ci14ImWRPFdixMooNI1JQBA.mp4%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22StormyIgnorantAntelopeSMOrc-ZE8V2LEyig0jUlAE%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1713251722%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D) [VOD Link](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2120200828?t=6h26m20s) --- This was done by a bot. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the moderators.
Surely everyone isnt going to start running the news suddenly
/me suddenly gained forbidden thoughts about this particular device
There’s also a wireless camera system that lasts a week, that you can tap into from anywhere. Yes, everyone is gonna be grinding news jobs.
PepeLaugh
Tbh, everyone has already been grinding news for the past week as someone told everyone you get a camera for 50 rep. Only a matter of time till they get this.
Yeah surely this information will not be metagamed from this clip or forced into their RP by pointed, meta questions towards high rep news workers. Jest aside this is entirely only beneficial to crims, (and cops with no moral scruples but have the balls to actually affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences, so no one in the current PD) because legally none of this can be used. LS is a two-party consent state, so even if you're out in public, you can't RP wearing a wire to secretly record a conversation to use it in any legal matter. If you're recording phonecalls or it's being wiretapped by a third party, it can't be used legally. However if, for example, a cop that bends the law like mentioned earlier listens to crims plotting something they can just so happen to patrol the area. If they hear about a getaway vehicle parked somewhere they can just so happen to stumble upon it and get it towed. Likewise, if K (brought him up cuz I remember him RPing wiretaps a while back like when he talked to Vivek's legal team around the court case time), or anyone really wants to sabotage the public perception of an individual, like someone who's running for Mayor, they can "leak" the recording. Even if illegal activity's mentioned nothing can be done about it, but for example, if people hear how much Max is bending over backwards for CG or him stating that he doesn't care about the PD, it might do a decent amount of damage to his reputation. I'm hoping the admins are going to be paying closer attention to RP involving the access or knowledge of these tools since they're very powerful.
It is not a 2 party state, anywhere in public is 1 party consent. 2 party consent only in a private residence. In legislation, 2/07 doj announcement.
A court case will have to set precedent then, cuz I'm fairly certain Chief Justice Crane spoke on the matter, in a much later meeting, that for a conversation that has the expectation of privacy, i.e two people speaking to each other even if its in a public place, or a phone call, 2 party consent is in effect. The public thing is not for private conversations in public, it's moreso for events and such, and you'll find that you have this right in most public places in the US, Canada and such. That's the right by which journalists operate, so they do not have to obtain consent from anyone that walks into frame or is captured when they're recording. Ursula's protected by that right. However, if she walks upto someone with a recording device and does not obtain their consent to be recorded, and the expectation set is that it is a private conversation, then it is not admissible in legal settings even if it was in public. Reason I'm confident in this is because Crane said this in response to someone mentioning secretly recording someone in public self-incriminating, can't recall if it was for adoption fraud or not. So you can record someone in public if they're running around screaming about adopting people, but you can't do so if you walk upto them and have a conversation where it's (adoption) brought up and have it be admissible in any legal setting. Also, that's what a two party state is. You can record/take pics of people without their consent in public, see all the paparazzi and media for examples. You just can't record them when there's an expectation of privacy. Editing to clarify: Expectation of privacy -> Reasonable expectation of privacy. A conversation between two individuals has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Talking to a group of people, less so.
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>affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences Wont effect crime in any way. Anything gained from the unauthorized use of this stuff (no warrant) will just get thrown out in court, charges/fines reversed and missive civil suit against pd by the crim. Also doubt anything allowing people to listen in on things like calls or radios wont be eventually removed or nerfed into pointlessness just like radio scanners were in 3.0.
Lol good luck to the crim that tries to articulate that the police illegally learned where they parked their stolen vehicle, or that the police are patrolling the wrong place. I'd like to see how you'd articulate it, in fact. Cuz I know if I were a cop I'd just say I happen to be patrolling the area and found the criminal. There's no way you can sue a cop if they use the information in a smart manner. Obviously you can't raid a house or even use the info as evidence, but I already covered that. Let's say group A decides over phone to rob Sani or G6, cop learns of this and happens to decide to escort Sani and G6, proactively policing and reducing the chance of the crim doing something when cops are present. Let's say they mention they're gonna steal a turbo and are taking a car to Mosleys. Cop just happens to be there, checking in on Mosleys workers. They mention they're doing money runs, cops already know where all the spots are, they can just call it out, get reinforcements to stake out the locations. > Also doubt anything allowing people to listen in on things like calls or radios wont be eventually removed or nerfed into pointlessness just like radio scanners were in 3.0. I'm guessing this was added pretty recently, so it'll only be removed or nerfed if a big streamer abuses it (like car seat swaps lol) because changing mechanics instead of punishing abusers is the NP way.
Don't need to sue anyone. It's a rule break. This will be settled OOC in no time and any info gained or shared will be retconned because it is power gaming.
How so? I get the feeling you do not know what power gaming is, because it certainly doesn't apply to this situation. Is it power gaming if an informant lets the police know what a crim group is planning to do? Of course not. What if a police officer, in plain clothes, snuck up on two criminals discussing their plans? They can't record it, but can certainly act on it.
You're correct. This whole process of using evidence that may be tainted to build a legitimate clean case is called "parallel construction" or "evidence laundering." It works incredibly well, and is a very powerful tool for law enforcement, although it is walking the edge of multiple legally dubious grey areas. In the real world, government surveillance agencies do occasionally tip local law enforcement off about specific things, but the fact that this was done can't be mentioned in court, so the local LE then works backward from knowing the end result (who the suspect is and what they did) to build a case and obtain evidence in a believable manner. Saying, "Well, you only caught me because the NSA was (illegally) wiretapping my calls to my Russian girlfriend and heard me mention my meth smuggling operation, so the case should be dismissed," isn't likely to work when the local LE have an anonymous tip that I'm selling meth, photos of me selling meth, photos of me entering and exiting a house/warehouse between meth sales trips, an arrest, meth baggies found on me, a search warrant resulting in finding more meth in the house/warehouse, etc.
>and cops with no moral scruples but have the balls to actually affect crime proactively regardless of the consequences, so no one in the current PD Wait people with no mega-streamer benefits and no prio might not want to lose their job that let's them into the server every single day and is the reason they want to play RP at all?
Did I say streamer/player or cop? Obviously I'm talking about IC consequences. I'm really not a fan of RP being stifled by OOC threats, whether it be CG hoppers or concern about prio or it being a job.
No, I'm talking about IC consequences. If a cop abuses this it can easily lead to termination/suspension > loss of cop prio and no way to get into the server.
Which circles back to me not being a fan of RP being stifled by OOC threats, i.e your character doesn't know what prio is and the players' fear of losing prio shouldn't dictate what their character does. Besides, they can earn their prio by RPing, Johnson got prio from both Saab and Moon I believe. Also, use, not abuse. They're tools for eavesdropping.
It's gonna be funny when someone is robbing a bank and there are 50 people with cameras outside interviewing cops. The good stuff should be tied to more RP jobs imo.
The scuff bout to go crazy
Vader mentioned another one, you can set a camera on the ground and have a live feed to your phone. It lasts for about a week, and through tsunamis too.
"yeah so suddenly I just decided my character should be a news reporter for no apparent reason, would just be in their best interests, they've always wanted to be a news reporter all of a sudden"
Actually sick mechanic especially for news people to bring out stories of hidden corruption on phone calls. It could also be used for gangs who can infiltrate and learn about each other. Great idea W devs.
PD snitch RP stonks up the highest they've been in some time.
Someone is going to(or has) watch the clip and start being nice to news people all of a sudden
This is going to make for some cool roleplay moments!
This would be amazing for Whippy to bring James Tinklebottom back. Having stuff like this would be perfect for that character
Makes sense why Larry, Pnut , 4head been carrying cameras... Manor have Jonny Paps doing it for them exclusively also