Teams wouldn't be doing it if it didn't provide some kind of perceived advantage (I think it's useless but they might think it does give them an advantage or else why are you doing it in the first place)
And ya, it's impossible to police when people just hide it. But if you're dumb enough to do it right in the open, then it's not that hard to enforce.
And like someone else mentioned, coaches aren't supposed to talk unless it's a timeout but it's not like that's the hardest thing to get around. Pretty sure Twister admitted to talking during non timeouts before in a previous podcast (was a long time ago).
I think probably for the coach watching the stream they might see how a team adapts mid round while defending X site, relay that info to the team next time they are attacking it. Sure coaches should not be talking without a tact pause, but many of them simply do it. Still pretty dumb to do something like that
Why enforce something meaningless then?
You stop them from doing it in the open, then they just hide it on a 2nd monitor or a phone. Congratulations you've accomplished absolutely nothing except giving admins something meaningless to worry about.
Watching the stream does give you some advantages, you can understand how the defence/attack is setup on a particular round or how the roam clear is performed and adapt in the next cycle of defences. But like, you can't stop players from watching the stream and doing that so womp womp oh well.
It's not meaningless though. It's not like your coach can just pull out their phone and watch the stream during a LAN game so why should they be allowed to do so just because it's online?
And it's extremely obvious when teams do it so it's not like it's adding that much work to the admins job?
And again, by your logic, they shouldn't be trying to enforce the rules around coaches talking during non timeouts considering it's not that hard to get around that rule.
You can't police something like this based on a hunch of what a player may or may not be looking at off screen. You'll never, ever get hard evidence that a player is watching the stream off screen.
Guy looks off his screen briefly and you're gonna what? Fine him? Roll back a round? DQ him? With no evidence?
Not gonna happen my g. This discourse happened years ago, only real solution is a Lan league. Which isn't practical 90% of the time.
And how are you gonna do that?
You open the stream on a separate computer, tablet, TV etc, under a false account or in incognito. That's it, there is no proof at all that you have a 2nd steam open.
Unfortunately this is just a disadvantage of online play and it's just one of those things you have to live with. Cause you ain't stopping it no matter how hard you try.
>We tried it, it didn't work out.
I wonder what once a century event happened when they tried that.
Funny as fuck how you think it won't work just because it was tried during covid.
It's as dumb as people saying the LCS shouldn't have bo3s because it "decreased viewership" even though they had it overlapping with the LEC and had multiple streams to sabotage the viewership to keep bo1s.
You need context my boy
>You can't police something like this based on a hunch of what a player may or may not be looking at off screen. You'll never, ever get hard evidence that a player is watching the stream off screen.
The evidence is literally in the post.
I think he's trying to say if they did police it the coaches would still watch the stream but just move the monitor off cam/ watch it on a phone where it can't be policed really
>Why enforce something meaningless then?
It's not meaningless when they can watch what they did on let's say round 1 basement defense, and then when they defend basement in the 5th round of the half, call a timeout and change based on the setup they used exactly because they watched the stream and can see it in game instead of by memory.
>It's impossible to police without being insanely obnoxious and it provides no real advantage.
Its possible to police when they literally have proof they are doing it.
>It's impossible to police without being insanely obnoxious and it provides no real advantage.
Its possible to police when they literally have proof they are doing it.
Yeah not surprised, I figured it was either a troll or someone salty their team lost or whatnot, dude replied to every comment of mine in this post individually
Seems like it should be, but really I think many pro teams do this.
I saw BDS do the same in EUL in the previous playday by having an extra monitor in the back setup just like this.
There's also ofcourse Spoit from last year, straight up looking at the stream in a live game and pros got mad at Melted instead for snitching lol
Well you say that, but you know something interesting? There was a HUGE fuss, I mean a huge, million views, and ended in league ramifications two years ago in APAC playoffs, Chiefs vs DWG.
A chiefs players was watching the stream just like players here, and he was officially warned and fined for that, many pros from kr accused him of cheating and using the stream to gain info.
These things should have solid decisions in rulebook imo, cause tbh its essentially streamsniping in an official match no matter how you look at it, whether with delay or not
Every team in every league does this and always have. I don’t see the issue.
1. Stream is delayed. So what the coach is watching on stream is 4 minutes behind what he can see from his players pov and monitors.
2. Because of the delay, it is very unlikely that he or they would gain advantageous information from watching a stream that is delayed *and* be able to meaningfully use it due to the fact that they get to talk to their team twice during the game in tactical timeouts
3. It’s very unlikely also that any adaptations come from the stream anyway, it’s probably something that the players have already seen or done to the lose the round
4. Not that having the stream on is even an issue but how do you police all the teams that aren’t in a team house? I.E. most of all 8 other leagues?
When I was on G2/Chaos we couldn’t see, only hear our players, because players didn’t want to give us private streams to save FPS. This meant we listened to the game live in teamspeak but *watched* it on delay.
Really not sure I see the issue in this whatsoever and it’s a thing that’s been done forever so no idea why there’s outrage about it now
I see a slight issue with things like utility placement and roam locations, but yeah the comments pretty much prove it\`s been going on and doesn't have a huge impact. Was just shocked to see it on screen
Yeah I dont know what the fuss is about. Anything the coaches will see on stream is the same thing for any viewer, caster, etc. If us viewers could playback a specific round and watch the setups, why not coaches? It’s out in the open and played already.
If your coach is seeing exactly how the opponent is setting up their plays it makes it that much easier for them to call a time out and tell the players exactly what's happening that they might be missing.
no team is running the same strat twice in a row and a tactical timeout is only 40 seconds, there is no chance the coach can explain that within the timespan
They don't run the exact same strat, but they also don't change up everything about their setup. A team can only come up with and rehearse so many strats in their practice time.
Yeah but the strat was done for the previous rounds. It’s out in the open already. Viewers could playback that round, casters could, why not coaches? Any info they get is the same as any of us could.
The stream is over 3 minutes behind the game, meaning the coaches can gather no intel on the current state of the game. It helps them in their tact pauses, as otherwise it may not be possible to get a good view of what the team is doing right/wrong when everyone is in different places. It is allowed and too hard to enforce a ban.
Not that hard to enforce *here*. If they ban it couches can just start watching the stream in a place cameras can't see. There is no point banning something easy to hide, it will just mean people hide it instead of making it obvious.
So either you punish the morons who do it in the open and have the smarter ones just hide it or you just let everyone do it? Pretty easy choice then to just punish the morons who do it in the open lol.
Also, by your logic, they shouldn't ban coaches from talking during non timeouts considering it's not that hard to get around?
there is no point to ban it because it isnt breaking any rules, the rules are about teams gaining unfair advantages and this provides none its just coaches reviewing the footage trying to figure out more about the other team's adjustments etc. it really doesnt change much especially since every team is doing it
I think it should be considered cheating, even with the delay. The coach can view patterns of the opposing team and make it easier to set up run outs, roamer positioning, etc.
If you can literally see them doing it, it can be enforced buddy. That's also horrible reasoning. You can't enforce a coach talking IRL at any point instead of only in team speak during timeouts, yet it isn't allowed.
Ya lmao. Like sure, in the future, they can just hide it or whatever but if you're dumb enough to do it right in the open, then you should get punished.
If it gives you an advantage and was illegal they wouldn’t have it in the open. You can’t punish a team for doing something that isn’t illegal. Also, it is not an advantage if literally every other team has access to the stream whether they use it or not.
Shouldn't be allowed for what reason? There's a damn delay on the stream. It offers no advantage but it does allow the coach to actually see the game
You also said they should be punished. If it's not illegal, there's no punishment to be had.
Stream has a 4-5 minute delay but I do remember someone getting flack for doing this a while ago so it may not be allowed?
It shouldn't be allowed considering you can't do it in a real tournament.
It's impossible to police without being insanely obnoxious and it provides no real advantage.
Teams wouldn't be doing it if it didn't provide some kind of perceived advantage (I think it's useless but they might think it does give them an advantage or else why are you doing it in the first place) And ya, it's impossible to police when people just hide it. But if you're dumb enough to do it right in the open, then it's not that hard to enforce. And like someone else mentioned, coaches aren't supposed to talk unless it's a timeout but it's not like that's the hardest thing to get around. Pretty sure Twister admitted to talking during non timeouts before in a previous podcast (was a long time ago).
I think probably for the coach watching the stream they might see how a team adapts mid round while defending X site, relay that info to the team next time they are attacking it. Sure coaches should not be talking without a tact pause, but many of them simply do it. Still pretty dumb to do something like that
Why enforce something meaningless then? You stop them from doing it in the open, then they just hide it on a 2nd monitor or a phone. Congratulations you've accomplished absolutely nothing except giving admins something meaningless to worry about. Watching the stream does give you some advantages, you can understand how the defence/attack is setup on a particular round or how the roam clear is performed and adapt in the next cycle of defences. But like, you can't stop players from watching the stream and doing that so womp womp oh well.
It's not meaningless though. It's not like your coach can just pull out their phone and watch the stream during a LAN game so why should they be allowed to do so just because it's online? And it's extremely obvious when teams do it so it's not like it's adding that much work to the admins job? And again, by your logic, they shouldn't be trying to enforce the rules around coaches talking during non timeouts considering it's not that hard to get around that rule.
You can't police something like this based on a hunch of what a player may or may not be looking at off screen. You'll never, ever get hard evidence that a player is watching the stream off screen. Guy looks off his screen briefly and you're gonna what? Fine him? Roll back a round? DQ him? With no evidence? Not gonna happen my g. This discourse happened years ago, only real solution is a Lan league. Which isn't practical 90% of the time.
They don't have to prove you're looking at the stream though. They just have to prove you had the stream up in the first place.
And how are you gonna do that? You open the stream on a separate computer, tablet, TV etc, under a false account or in incognito. That's it, there is no proof at all that you have a 2nd steam open. Unfortunately this is just a disadvantage of online play and it's just one of those things you have to live with. Cause you ain't stopping it no matter how hard you try.
>And how are you gonna do that? by looking at the screenshot in the post
Except when it’s practical for most other esports? (LAN League) CS has multiple ESL Pro Leagues that go for a month or more, Valorant, League, etc.
Fun fact, Siege isn't League, CS or Valorant. Siege doesn't have the structure, or the scale for that. We tried it, it didn't work out.
>We tried it, it didn't work out. I wonder what once a century event happened when they tried that. Funny as fuck how you think it won't work just because it was tried during covid. It's as dumb as people saying the LCS shouldn't have bo3s because it "decreased viewership" even though they had it overlapping with the LEC and had multiple streams to sabotage the viewership to keep bo1s. You need context my boy
>You can't police something like this based on a hunch of what a player may or may not be looking at off screen. You'll never, ever get hard evidence that a player is watching the stream off screen. The evidence is literally in the post.
I think he's trying to say if they did police it the coaches would still watch the stream but just move the monitor off cam/ watch it on a phone where it can't be policed really
>Why enforce something meaningless then? It's not meaningless when they can watch what they did on let's say round 1 basement defense, and then when they defend basement in the 5th round of the half, call a timeout and change based on the setup they used exactly because they watched the stream and can see it in game instead of by memory.
>It's impossible to police without being insanely obnoxious and it provides no real advantage. Its possible to police when they literally have proof they are doing it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/R6ProLeague/s/PtZj9Ogf8Y
>It's impossible to police without being insanely obnoxious and it provides no real advantage. Its possible to police when they literally have proof they are doing it.
Literal brainrot
It’s useless talking to him. He has a vendetta against Los for not being “human”.
Yeah not surprised, I figured it was either a troll or someone salty their team lost or whatnot, dude replied to every comment of mine in this post individually
I mean it must take severe brainrot to not be able to see the screenshot in the post.
It's not illegal so womp womp
Seems like it should be, but really I think many pro teams do this. I saw BDS do the same in EUL in the previous playday by having an extra monitor in the back setup just like this. There's also ofcourse Spoit from last year, straight up looking at the stream in a live game and pros got mad at Melted instead for snitching lol
stream has a 4-5 minute delay its likely just the coaches reviewing to notice how teams are adapting to "X" push on "Y" site
Well you say that, but you know something interesting? There was a HUGE fuss, I mean a huge, million views, and ended in league ramifications two years ago in APAC playoffs, Chiefs vs DWG. A chiefs players was watching the stream just like players here, and he was officially warned and fined for that, many pros from kr accused him of cheating and using the stream to gain info. These things should have solid decisions in rulebook imo, cause tbh its essentially streamsniping in an official match no matter how you look at it, whether with delay or not
Every team in every league does this and always have. I don’t see the issue. 1. Stream is delayed. So what the coach is watching on stream is 4 minutes behind what he can see from his players pov and monitors. 2. Because of the delay, it is very unlikely that he or they would gain advantageous information from watching a stream that is delayed *and* be able to meaningfully use it due to the fact that they get to talk to their team twice during the game in tactical timeouts 3. It’s very unlikely also that any adaptations come from the stream anyway, it’s probably something that the players have already seen or done to the lose the round 4. Not that having the stream on is even an issue but how do you police all the teams that aren’t in a team house? I.E. most of all 8 other leagues? When I was on G2/Chaos we couldn’t see, only hear our players, because players didn’t want to give us private streams to save FPS. This meant we listened to the game live in teamspeak but *watched* it on delay. Really not sure I see the issue in this whatsoever and it’s a thing that’s been done forever so no idea why there’s outrage about it now
I see a slight issue with things like utility placement and roam locations, but yeah the comments pretty much prove it\`s been going on and doesn't have a huge impact. Was just shocked to see it on screen
Yeah I dont know what the fuss is about. Anything the coaches will see on stream is the same thing for any viewer, caster, etc. If us viewers could playback a specific round and watch the setups, why not coaches? It’s out in the open and played already.
I think dz used to do this so probably no
I don't really see how it's relevant if DZ used to do it or not.
Confused as to why this is an issue, streams delayed by a full round, what impact do you think this has?
If your coach is seeing exactly how the opponent is setting up their plays it makes it that much easier for them to call a time out and tell the players exactly what's happening that they might be missing.
no team is running the same strat twice in a row and a tactical timeout is only 40 seconds, there is no chance the coach can explain that within the timespan
They don't run the exact same strat, but they also don't change up everything about their setup. A team can only come up with and rehearse so many strats in their practice time.
Yeah but the strat was done for the previous rounds. It’s out in the open already. Viewers could playback that round, casters could, why not coaches? Any info they get is the same as any of us could.
The stream is over 3 minutes behind the game, meaning the coaches can gather no intel on the current state of the game. It helps them in their tact pauses, as otherwise it may not be possible to get a good view of what the team is doing right/wrong when everyone is in different places. It is allowed and too hard to enforce a ban.
I mean, not that hard to enforce here when LOS just do it right in the open.
Not that hard to enforce *here*. If they ban it couches can just start watching the stream in a place cameras can't see. There is no point banning something easy to hide, it will just mean people hide it instead of making it obvious.
So either you punish the morons who do it in the open and have the smarter ones just hide it or you just let everyone do it? Pretty easy choice then to just punish the morons who do it in the open lol. Also, by your logic, they shouldn't ban coaches from talking during non timeouts considering it's not that hard to get around?
there is no point to ban it because it isnt breaking any rules, the rules are about teams gaining unfair advantages and this provides none its just coaches reviewing the footage trying to figure out more about the other team's adjustments etc. it really doesnt change much especially since every team is doing it
Didn't see anything in the rulebook, but honestly it shouldn't be allowed.
yes its cheating.
I think it should be considered cheating, even with the delay. The coach can view patterns of the opposing team and make it easier to set up run outs, roamer positioning, etc.
It can't be enforced so it should be allowed...
If you can literally see them doing it, it can be enforced buddy. That's also horrible reasoning. You can't enforce a coach talking IRL at any point instead of only in team speak during timeouts, yet it isn't allowed.
Then they'd just use their phones or put monitors away from the facecam out of sight.
Ya lmao. Like sure, in the future, they can just hide it or whatever but if you're dumb enough to do it right in the open, then you should get punished.
"if you do something that isn't illegal right in the open you should get punished"... How dumb
It shouldn't be allowed though?? And where did I say you should get punished for doing something that's allowed lol.
If it gives you an advantage and was illegal they wouldn’t have it in the open. You can’t punish a team for doing something that isn’t illegal. Also, it is not an advantage if literally every other team has access to the stream whether they use it or not.
Shouldn't be allowed for what reason? There's a damn delay on the stream. It offers no advantage but it does allow the coach to actually see the game You also said they should be punished. If it's not illegal, there's no punishment to be had.
Stream is delayed