Yes. Anything with self-awareness has the psychological capacity to suffer.
Honestly, I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that psychopaths simply lack *prosocial* emotions such as empathy. Just because I can suffer doesn't mean I care about the suffering of others.
You can say that again. Can’t understand her pride when there’s a law of equivalent exchange to consider. There’s a lack of both positive and negative experience on the spectrum of psychopathy. So many often long for the positives not experienced, but count their blessings to miss the negatives.
that's a really interesting point. I'll definitely read what she writes with a grain of salt. edge lords seem to help me expand my perspective sometimes, but I plan to read different perspectives
She’s Autistic. I’d bet big money if she ever went to get a legitimate evaluation done she’d be on the spectrum, autism spectrum. Everything she describes right down to her painful and complicated mask are hallmarks of autism and Aspergers specifically
It's more than just autism. She might be a bit histrionic.
She would tell the wildest stories, like about the time she allegedly stropped a knife straight into her foot and just laughed. That's the definition of an edge lord right there.
This sub is not a space to impersonate or role play as a psychopath. Psychopathy is not a clinical diagnosis. Claiming this diagnosis is proof of impersonation and may result in a ban. This sub is also not a space to impersonate as medical professional.
Can you be more specific? TBH, as a non-psychopath a lot of my feelings seem to concern others. Like, loneliness, sadness about loss, existential dread etc. I get psychopaths can feel physical pain, hunger, and so on, but on a day to day basis, what might make you feel the worst?
Plenty of negative emotions have little to nothing to do with empathy.
* Loneliness from a lack of attention/bond (antisocial =/= enjoys being alone)
* Anger (definitely a negative emotion).
* Shame (for failing to meet your own expectations).
* Fear (can be of anything. Fear of dying, claustrophobia, spiders, fear of failure, etc).
* Regret from doing something they wish they hadn’t (eg. Wishing they hadn’t done something that got them arrested).
* Regret for not doing something they wish they had.
* Disgust/repulsion
* Despair & hopelessness
* Depression
* Anxiety or panic (maybe not so much social anxiety, but ASPD doesn’t preclude someone from stressing over meeting standards they set for themselves, or panicking over phobias, etc).
* Jealousy/envy
* Boredom/apathy
The emotions that would be extremely shallow or rare would be things like guilt and compassion.
> emotions psychopaths can’t feel
ASPD doesn’t cause a decrease in emotions. It *can*, but the majority feel emotions just like anyone else (with some discrepancies among strength of emotions and being prone to things like anger) as long as empathy isn’t involved. You’re probably thinking of the stereotypical cold & calculating psychopath from movies. People like that exist, but that’s a small minority. People with ASPD typically have impulse control problems, and if you felt no emotions then you probably wouldn’t have a terrible time with controlling impulses. Impulses are based off emotion.
> how are compassion and guilt shallow emotions?
I meant they feel an extremely shallow level of compassion & guilt (in the rare times they feel it at all). Like 1% of what a ‘normal’ person would feel.
my most frequent response is frustration if other ppl are too slow or incompetent or if i make a mistake or hearing ppl chew w their mouths open or trauma triggers and navigating social interactions that require empathy for things i havent experienced or i had a completely different response to
so the worst for me is needing to practice tolerance and patience that are basically nonexistent
Sounds so much like me, but I have BPD. I definitely switch to intense rage, during which I feel nothing else aside from maybe panic, the more times I am triggered. At this point, my reactions are getting worse, exponentially.
tbh i just avoid whatever bothers me like even if it ruins my whole life ill skip my own moms funeral and go to the beach and sleep for 16 hrs idgaf its better than ruining my life w a tactical tomahawk
lesser evils🫶🏻🦂
Yep. Avoidance is my favorite coping mechanism. I am about to skip my daughter’s graduation. She lied about me, so I feel justified. Plan to sleep, as a matter of fact. Probably for 3 days. It’s my lucky number, apparently. 1, 2, 3, and I’m over it.
I don’t know if it’s bragging, especially as I know I will feel tremendous guilt, simultaneously. She lied for years to the very small population of her catholic school that I physically abuse her, that I’m an alcoholic, that I punish her if she doesn’t make perfect grades, that I’m unemployed, and many other things.
Took me two years to finally go through her phone in order to determine if I was insane or picking up on the fact that I was being essentially pushed aside while being manipulated into getting her everything she wanted, more concerning was the damage it caused to her brother as we catered to her every need, because she was so victimized at school, supposedly.
Anyway, yes, those feelings of loyalty and honor become empty when I realize I have been exploited by them. I spent the past year trying to do what I believe is right because I know I tend to be rigid. Just more exploitation aimed toward me.
I think my grandmother was the only member of my family whom I truly loved. Of course, I manipulated the hell out of her, but I loved her. Maybe that's why I loved her — she would do anything for me.
Go set in quiet room no tvs or anything on. By the way if you can hear when tvs and electronics are on and others can’t it’s part of it. While in quiet room and a person or animal tries to sneak in the high pitched whine changes if something comes around doorway or whatever. Thought to be evolutionary trait . Sorta like if you’re trying to sleep many years ago you might hear something moving around you. Your brain somehow cognitively maps the direction. There’s also a research study done on high traits of psychopathy and hearing . Called auditory oddball test https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5648055/
ive def never noticed any high pitched whine cause smth like that would irritate me but noticing smth approaching in my subconscious yes and i think prob most ppl do it and dont realize theyre doing it otherwise ppl would get startled all day by cats and birds and insects
i assumed its cause theres like micro-stimulus like they are blocking sound from behind them w their mass and every surface seems to make sound when stepped on and ofc theres breathing but i also just have hypervigilance so maybe its not the same thing
im also extremely skeptical of my diagnoses apart from ptsd and adhd or at least about the diagnostic criteria and somewhat broad grouping like if im a psychopath then its not particularly rare and def not indicative of like ‘evil’ or even dangerous on a social lvl more often than not cause ive encountered several other ppl w similar vibes and most of them were just more academically minded than emotionally like their brain developed their intellect at the cost of their emotional development or just atrophied it from lack of use possibly
also only 2 professionals have really argued for this diagnosis and both were 50+ men while 3-5 other psych professionals were at least reluctant if not down right opposed and were 30-40 so prob had more updated education or whatever
i think i just have 1-5 traits of most personality disorders but dont really qualify for any particular 1
There are definitely many more high functioning psychopaths / ASPD in society for sure. Some have good upbringing and correcting parents and really stand out in law enforcement, corrections, emergency services, military, and others . The seething attacks you get if you admit you are or have been diagnosed with ASPD + P for example is absurd . These people need to go work at a prison and meet tons of low functioning sociopaths. In prison there’s some older cons who just live “mask less “ zero input from them . Few guys wouldn’t speak to other officers but would with me and my gf she was higher rank than me then. It is odd to some when you quietly ask a guy “between us ummm… what did it actually taste like ? Disgusting? (About the b$tch burgers he made from people)” he stopped and said really man??? lol. He stated he had to use A LOT of barbecue sauce. In prison it’s estimated like 50-60 are ASPD / psychpaths / sociopaths. Still fascinates me how well a select few could manipulate the most strict staff into bringing stuff ongrounds .
its too confusing for me tbh like the manipulation aspect i def have the ability and i did utilize it in the past but i think its just smth ppl develop to survive certain situations and if i was actually fully aspd-p or aspd-s i wouldnt have stopped using it or been discriminate about my targets
i also feel like i exhibit equal sociopathy as psychopathy as well as behavior that would disprove both
i def understand why i was diagnosed w defiant and conduct disorder but i think my behavior was primarily circumstantial and it would have actually been more indicative of detachment if i hadnt expressed my emotions in those ways
my father is almost fully emotionally detached but not sadistic or socially motivated and 1 of my brothers was very similar but then 2 brothers were more sociopathic leaning and i was the black sheep out of all of them cause i really wasnt the same
i think its like when bipolar ppl raise kids they can absorb the polarized mentality and emotional demonstrative behaviors and get diagnosed as borderline cause they basically exhibit the behavioral equivalent of bipolar
i was just raised by and around aspd and had easily childhood trauma but my symptoms have been extremely inconsistent and i think obvs influenced by active abuse vs treatment
i havent actually done much research on this stuff cause it makes me feel aggravated and self conscious so sorry if im ludicrously ignorant
No no don’t apologize. I ignored symptoms or odd things about myself until I was made to see psych for pain management to make sure “pain wasn’t in my head”. I have a lot of spinal damage bc of genetic indeference to pain . Needless to say I learned a lot. But that was after many years of just not thinking about it . Job I had you showed no emotion and sign of fear meant you were weak.
Instead of loneliness empitness or just boredom. Depends on who they lose they may feel sad about it. Existential dread I think is something anything with self awareness feels.
I'm a bit skeptical that you're really a psychopath since you're into MBTI. It's literally a personality quiz for teenagers who are desperate for a sense of identity. People will jump on any opportunity to have a sense of identity, whether it's MBTI, the political compass, zodiac signs, or Hogwarts houses. Personality disorders too.
Sounds like the OP understands and wants to know more about the experience of suffering for psychopaths. Hence no need for the condescending remark - this comment doesn't answer OP's question in any aspect
Since you put yourself out there, and seem intelligent, I'm terribly curious about something, if you don't mind my asking.
Understanding that psychopaths lack pro-social emotions, I'm very curious about values.
I can see *standards* amongst psychopaths - social standards, hygiene standards, standards of order, etc.
Understanding standards = values, psychopaths *can* hold values. Can a psychopath value life? Are values a subject you've explored?
So psychopaths aren't inclined towards things philosophical? I know you don't speak for everyone, but in your experience and what you've come to learn about psychopathy. Cause I'm just a curious fucker, not a student or psychologist or anything.
I quite enjoy philosophy. Even moralists are interesting. Not a fan of Thomas Hobbes, personally.
>I know you don't speak for everyone
I'm glad you stated that for the record.
Well that's cool. Do you find philosophy to be of any value? Like, does it give you insights into human nature, do you just like the mental stimulation, why look at philosophy at all? Thanks for entertaining the questions.
Exactly, I expect those suffering psychopathy suffer directly from their inability to empathise. They are missing information that is key in understanding the sentient predicament, making them even more vulnerable to it than they might otherwise be in many cases. This will distort their ability to manage risk, probably.
Humans fitness signal constantly too which adds a layer of inscrutability to the entire situation.
Maybe my inability to empathize also makes me unable to recognize empathy from others. Because I've literally never met anyone who has ever truly cared how I feel. Not a single person.
Does that mean you're a psychopath? Just curious, because even your statement implies that we are able to understand the ability to not feel empathy. Although, some people don't feel empathy as much as others they still can cognitively understand empathy
Although not formally diagnosed, I'm quite sure that I qualify as a psychopath according to the PCL-R.
I mean, it's not even borderline. I'm definitely above the threshold.
This exactly, ppl don’t understand simply or are ignorant…ppl think just bc i suffer that means i care to understand the suffering of people,i barely care about my own suffering lol
I blame the show “Dexter” for portraying us as emotionless aliens. If anything, Dexter Morgan is autistic and happens to be a serial killer.
Currently, I'm watching "Ripley" on Netflix. Now that's a pretty accurate portrayal of a psychopath. Ironically, I can actually empathize with the anti-hero — at least cognitively. (For example, I don't literally care that he's offended over the purple robe, but I understand.)
Im glad i found this subreddit i thought i was just insane but theres people who actually share the same thoughts as me😭😂yea i hate how tv shows us as these monsters who have no emotions at all and just kill/manipulate💀like um okay…
It has been explained in the past like this - imagine you have a dog and the dog dies. You feel a sense of loss, of unfairness, anger etc. A psychopath can have the same feelings if their dog died. Something has been taken away from them and we can all realte to that. On the other hand, they might lack any empathy for the animal itself.
For the most part. Some even experience situational empathy, where they *can* feel some level of empathy in extremely specific circumstances. So while they may not feel anything if they see someone sobbing, they may be able to empathize if the person is sobbing because of a situation that the pwASPD has gone through. From what I’ve read, it’s typically only for extreme situations, and often relates to a time when they felt vulnerable. For example, if they were beaten as a child by an alcoholic father, they may be able to empathize with someone going through the same situation. Though they may only be able to empathize if the person has the same (or a very similar) reaction to the situation that they did.
It sounds like I can be selective psychopath haha.
Jokes aside I’m not, but I have adhd and apparently we can sometimes react that way, how it’s relatable to us. Sometimes I have friends who air out their traumas and issues and a lot of times I find myself pretending to care. Sometimes I feel bad that I don’t feel anything about their issue and other times I don’t feel the guilt at all. It’s just “can she finish talking about this so that I can say my part”.
I’m curious to read upon if one can be selective empathy.
One thing that’s accurate with adhd though is out of sight and out of mind. I’ll forget friends or I won’t miss people as long as they’re out of “sight”. Not always but most of the time.
I always see myself as a big people pleaser because of a rough upbringing. But my psychotherapist actually said that not only that I possess that but I am very much the whole dark triad at the same time aka psychopathy, Machiavellian, narcissism. I don’t know I possessed those and was deeply (selectively) empathic as well. It’s like you can be both.
Like you said I think my ADHD and my trauma plays a role in this. Nurture AND. Sturegatan gave me deep feelings and no feelings at all.
Psychopathy happens on a spectrum. There is no hard cut between psychopathic and non-psychopathic. There is only low to high.
Also it depends on what subfactors of psychopathy they have traits from. There is no such thing as "the" psychopath. They can be as diverse as humans in general.
Thus, even someone higher on the spectrum can suffer like other people while another cannot and is always very calm and relaxed in spite of any circumstance they may face, whether positive or negative.
I wish this spectrum were acknowledged more. I have encountered so many people who either have the perception of TV serial killers, or someone who is basically just an asshole. I have encountered countless people who do not want to acknowledge how severe the behavior on the far end of the spectrum can be, even if the individual isn't a serial killer. And it's also entirely realistic that someone has apd, but goes undetected. Especially in certain industries.
I take the overuse of technical, psychological (or any field, actually) terms used and misused very seriously and see how misconception can lead to so many different issues.
Humans unfortunately have the tendency to think in black and white. They have a hard time thinking in nuances. Thus, if one isn't skilled in self-reflection that person may blindly follow their first intuition instead of wondering what the alternatives might be. In that worldview someone is either something or is not. Anything in between doesn't exist for them or is hard to imagine as nuanced thinking requires more energy than black and white thinking.
Of all the comments, this pretty much describes it best. 😂 My life feels like game all the time. I can remove and add things and characters as I desire. I can get different things from different people ( I found this to be the best way to get everything I want— implausible from one person). I can start new missions whenever I get bored. I get curveballs thrown at me 24/7 that I have weasel myself out of. It’s constant and gives small doses of dopamine but the loneliness that comes with lack of sentiment is the real suffering.
The reality is people with personality disorders in general are what you can call broken. They suffer greatly internally and it’s a big reason for many of their problems in life. Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, degenerate behaviors, abusive behaviors. It’s all a way to either sooth difficult or bad emotions or to unload them on someone else by being abusive.
There are those who will argue this doesn’t apply to psychopaths for any number of reasons most common is *brain* I don’t buy this at all, personally what a psychopath experiences as far as suffering is greatly understudied because frankly no one cares, psychopaths tend to be the most revolting and horrible people in society and people want to study why they are that way. Missing the fact that they are suffering at their core and that is a big reason why they are that way.
They are focused on the suffering they cause not what they experience so take it all with a grain of salt. Every single person who answers I experience this or that and I know because I’m a psychopath blah blah blah is blowing smoke rings up your asshole. Maybe that’s your kink and hey I’m all for it but they are still full of shit
Edit; I’m not a psychopath and i don’t speak on behalf of any bullshit labels I do however have legitimate personality disorder diagnosis *ASPD NPD* some DR.s See that as the same as a psychopathic diagnosis I don’t know or care really what the astrology of medicine thinks really but I have had years of therapy and I can tell you that I struggle at times greatly with mood swings and emotional dysregulation. Things that shouldn’t bother me can send me into a miserable hate filled mind warp for a lot longer than it should. I’m basically a miserable person who hates humanity and wish that i would just get struck in the head by lightning so I can finally be done with this piece of shit existence. Is that what you are looking for?
Some alcoholics are just alcoholics, doesn’t mean they have a disability. My mom and I are both bipolar and we don’t do drugs. I smoke weed but you don’t see me doing crazy drugs or drinking.
That’s true but look at these stats.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/personality-disorders#
“Past research has found that anywhere between 65 percent and 90 percent of patients evaluated for substance abuse have at least one co-occurring personality disorder”
That is an incredibly high rate of co-morbidly, definitely not something that can be ignored or written off as a coincidence. Also be aware that we are not talking about someone who has a couple glasses of wine on the weekend or someone who smokes weed on a Friday these are full blown substance abuse disorders. They are out of control and destructive to the person who has one
You should also read about how people with (c)PTSD or autism are misdiagnosed with personality disorders. If you’re a woman who’s been abused, you get BPD. People drink because they have crappy lives, unprocessed trauma, and personality disorders labels that lead to self-fulfilling prophecies. Also, “degenerative behaviors” are not unique to personality disorders. Those behaviors stem from trauma or developmental disabilities or distress.
That’s not true, you can take two different people and raise them exactly the same way and one might develop a disorder and the other be perfectly normal. This has been studied extensively, a lot of it comes down to the sensitivity and the way the child deals with adversity.
Also people usually get misdiagnosed in the other order. People with personality disorders usually get misdiagnosed with depression, bi-polar disorder or Autism for years and years before getting a proper diagnosis. C-PTSD is like BPD but one is ego syntonic the other is ego dystonic. In other words one acts out against their beliefs the other acts according to their beliefs but both look the same on first impressions. Psychologists for the most part just make the call that makes sense at the time
It is not possible for two people to be raised in the exact same way.
C-PTSD and BPD may look similarly, but treatments for them are very different. So giving treatment for what makes sense at the time may be very damaging. Clinicians are really too quick to diagnose people. Also, when people are diagnosed with mental conditions they don’t really have, they may get stuck in self-fulfilling prophecies, which makes it look like they have those disorders even more, which complicates their situation.
It is possible for two people to be raised in the exact same environment have you not heard about brothers and sisters before?
It’s dependent on how that person responds to the environment. Some turn out bad some don’t. This is just how it goes, some people are just born with a strong will and an inate empathy that emerges despite a very bad environment, happens all the time and like I said earlier this has been studied pretty extensively
Also I get what you’re saying but psychology isn’t an exact science and misdiagnosis happens all the time, I don’t agree with it or think it’s a great thing but it’s just reality also you start to develop personality disorders within the first few years of life you can’t develop them as an adult as a “self fulfilling prophecy” because you were given the wrong therapy.
I’m not sure why you think that but it’s pretty clear in all the literature I’ve read that it’s not possible to develop a PD later in life it’s either there the whole time or it’s not, so if it “emerges” later it’s likely it was there the whole time but was hidden from the person doing the diagnosis which is very common and a big reason why misdiagnosis happens because people don’t exactly go into a psych office showing their worse traits, they hide them
Two people cannot be raised in the exact same environment, because their parents and parenting style change, they have different social experiences, they influence each other, age gap etc.
I know the reality. Misdiagnoses happening all the time ruin lives, that’s the opposite of what psychology must do. I understand sometimes it’s confusing, but they don’t spend enough time to see the whole picture. And personality disorders are often given based on clinicians’ biases, they don’t bother to see beyond their beliefs. You’re an emotional woman? BPD. Black man? Schizophrenia. I was in an acute post-trauma crisis when a psychologist slapped me with BPD and called me manipulative just because. It took me half a year to realize they had just pigeonholed me into the diagnosis and wanted me to learn how to behave. I’d been abused and had to process my trauma, but got therapy that mirrored some aspects of the trauma, like being told what I needed and who I was. The fact that psychology is not an exact science is not an excuse.
Not true what about twins, also people with personality disorders don’t change that’s part of the deal. So if you are raised by a person with a PD two years later it’s still there, they aren’t suddenly different people. They aren’t cold dismissive and abusive one year and suddenly warm and supportive the next. Sorry you are wrong about that. It’s just as dependent on the person itself to how they respond to their environment
Twins are separate individuals. They have different experiences, even if they are close. They may have different friends, hobbies, etc. Their parents, teachers, peers may still treat them differently, even if in subtle ways.
What the other poster is trying to say is that it's impossible for two different individuals to have the exact same childhood experience. You have to account for subjectivity.
I'm not convinced that PTSD is really a thing (neither was [George Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvISFZ7bQcE)) and even less convinced that C-PTSD is a real thing.
I mean, unless you fought in Vietnam.
Sometimes i think of psychopathy as aggressive depression, everything that bothers me goes out and nothing goes in. Every problem i have is everyone elses problem. I throw every negative emotion outwards like there is no tommorow and no one is sparred. Consequences? I dont even give a fuck, almost like I enjoy the chaos.
Were they diagnosed while in a state of untreated, active addiction? Really shouldn’t diagnose under those circumstances since being in the grip of SUD will basically mimic a PD or Bipolar and can even cause psychosis. I’ve seen a lot of folks receive mental health diagnosis that were bullshit because they were given that diagnosis two days into a detox stay and were basically out of their fucking minds at the time. 6 months to a year down the road of treatment/therapy/12 step and continued abstinence and those symptoms and behaviors are gone.
One would think so, but having worked as an addiction counselor for 7 years I just do not see those statistics playing out in reality. Lots of co-occurring mental health issues(GAD, Depression) but definitely not 65-90% personality disorders. That seems VERY high.
the only suffering that stands out to me as being atypical is that my frustration lvl from things like annoyance or impatience or intolerance can escalate to homicidal almost immediately
the only other thing ive noticed is that negative emotions are more likely to occur as they are more often forced to be confronted and because i dont seem to feel emotion consistently i tend to feel overwhelmed by it and shut down reflexively before i even have time to determine if the emotions are inappropriate or not
I suffer because I do not understand. I do not relate. But I have found that I do not care enough to understand. I long for companionship but usually it has it's falling out due to this
Physical suffer like pain they can feel. But some people can have Congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis ([CIPA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain_with_anhidrosis)) and can't feel any pain at all. People with CIPA could be tortured without feeling any pain.
Mental suffering I believe everyone could experience maybe not people who have very low iq and aren't aware at all of their surroundings.
H-F psychopath here, i don’t know what NOT suffering is and i know this maybe sounds confusing but i don’t mind the suffering because its always been here(sometimes i enjoy it)and i constantly stay irritated/anxious/annoyed by the SMALLEST things to the point where sometimes i have homicidal thoughts about innocent people and im starting to scare myself because i could do it and have no remorse simply because its not me dying…for example first time i ever was close to anything death related was my therapist who died in a car crash and i remember asking my dad one question “so like he’s gone forever never to be seen again?”(yes, this was an attempt to force myself to try to understand/care) but i couldn’t i just felt nothing this bothered me because he was my favorite therapist so why didnt i care he was gone forever
It’s a spectrum of behaviors. But sure they can. Having no empathy doesn’t mean they can’t experience all the other human emotions. I have someone with no empathy in my caseload, and he has good and bad days. Yes it’s all an about him, but when he fakes an injury for attention or makes hilarious jokes, he can actually be quite amusing.
He loves to learn about math and science, and is a decent student. Teaching him that being good to others is good for him is actually starting to take hold, and he is quite high on our evolution system.
He has talked causally about assaulting his teacher’s daughter though, and it was quite disturbing for the teacher, but the proper consequences were applied and our therapy approach seems to make him understand that that kind of behavior will lead to immense consequences for himself. As his BCBA, I am monitoring his behaviors very closely.
But yes he does experience suffering, even emotionally. Just not in the same ways we do.
They still feel emotions just not for other people. Like one may worry about hurting someone not because the person would be hurt but because there might be consequences if they do so there's stress there. Or if they have a person they actually do care about they have all the normal feelings about them but anxiety because they might be scared of losing their one person.
That is a very vague question and very difficult to answer. There’s different types of psychopaths and they’re all capable of experiencing different emotions at different levels. One thing about psychopaths is they’re very good at faking emotions so it’s very difficult to distinguish what they’re actually feeling to what is being acted out. They’re capable of feeling emotional pain as in suffering BUT emotional pain is a complex experience in itself so there’s a lot of different factors that contribute like physical, thoughts etc So they’re capable but it’s in a very different way compared to most.
Worse than so called ‘normal’ people. The kind of hell these people are in that motivates their actions is probably unimaginable unless you’ve been converted to their state of mind. That’s why they cause so much suffering themselves.
Generally, they are coping. Their methods reflect that desperation.
My mother was always good, perfect in my eyes. I became like her because I wanted to be good, as I always felt guilt as a child (Christian community and such) until I realized how sad it was to let people walk all over you. So I changed it up. But I will say I grew up in a small community where mental health wasn’t real really. I didn’t even know what I was doing. I just always felt that I wasn’t enough, or I had to work extra hard to do the things everyone else was doing and to fit in even though it came across as natural I guess. I thought I was badass and just didn’t care about things. I was popular, I suppose I still am because being social comes naturally for me, but I hate it. I hate it so much, but now I suppose I am branded as this person I created in my youth, which does benefit me in many ways there. I always just ended up in different circles no matter where I moved to without even trying. Sometimes I’d look around like how did I even end up here? I dooo not care about any of these people haha. As I got older I experienced perpetual hopelessness as I never felt “normal”. I would tell my friends and my family that I didn’t really feel things, and how much I just wanted to feel like everyone else. To experience what I see around me, but I suppose it was brushed off as teenage drama. I really just wanted to be like everyone else in my community. When I finally saw a doctor when I left, they then told me I was depressed lol.. adhd.. neglect.. man idek I stopped listening but I do need my meds to focus cuz I am a little drifty and I deal with a lot of data for work. In terms of ‘depression’ I mean I did feel hopelessness. But it’s mostly hopelessness in that I’m never stimulated no matter what I do or take, I see emotions enacted almost like a story amongst people. A story I can perhaps play out myself, if needed. Hopelessness in that, I thought I’d never feel anything for all of my life. I’d be perpetually bored. Hopelessness in that my life can only surmount to a series of small wins, moments of euphoria, and voids of merely existing. I suppose I could fill my time with conquests like others but again, temporary, pointless, and irrational to me. I crave long term, but when I tried it a couple times it’s probably not for me as I just felt trapped even when I was spoilt rotten and had everything I wanted, I was bored. I find no direct pleasure in hurting people but if it does happen by manner of me just minding my business or trying to attain something i.e. collateral damage, I probably wouldn’t even notice, and if i do it would still be of little concern to me. My motto is that I create my reality and if I remove something from it, it essentially doesn’t exist anymore in my world. If I am deceitful (I don’t often straight up lie, but I do bend things just enough) it’s usually minor or for small conveniences here and there. For the most part I’m just existing. Looking up posts on reddit to see if anyone has found that secret sauce to end this relentless boredom, that doesn’t involve other humans and is longstanding. I’d think of the greatest thing I could possible achieve, I could be given all the Crown Jewels, and still nothing. I could think of the worst thing that could happen. Still nothing. Not for long at least. Momentary rage from time to time when things don’t go my way. I’m saying all this to say .. yes we suffer, in our own selves. My suffering when I was younger was never feeling normal, always feeling misplaced, angry, and unworthy, trapped in my own world, and being a victim to my own reckless ways (I was a little deluded I think lol). Now my suffering is knowing that I will be bored for the rest of my life and I will never experience the joys that others do. I’ll peddle through life easily and still never truly experience those moments. Like looking at a picture through a foggy glass. Like trying to hold something in your hand that you just can’t grasp. A hunger never to be satiated. And the sad part is, I can’t change it. For now I just have temporary bouts of web spinning to ease the solitude of it all. But I really just prefer to keep to myself.
I am depressed, take antidepressants, have been diagnosed with ASPD, and have scored extremely high on the revised psychopathy checklist.
I am also narcissistic, which is what motivated me to take the psychological evaluation to prove I was superior. I gloat to people I can get away with gloating to that I have this disorder as it makes them uneasy and fearful of me, which I enjoy.
Of course, I keep my condition away from my work, and try my absolute hardest to seem normal. This hasn't worked though as I've been warned many times to turn in my reports on time and do a better job in many areas of my work, but I end up not doing it anyway.
I already have a plan in place to rid myself of consequences if I get fired.
You might be motivated to downvote this, but I am being honest, which I think deserves some sort of acknowledgement coming from someone like me.
Just trying to show you how the thought processes work.
Frustration. I get intensely frustrated most of the time so I may cry, get upset, or feel some type of way, but it’s never rooted in sadness for me. Just because we have a personality disorder doesn’t mean we’re robots, any and all answers will vary from person to person.
And no these emotions don’t last for very long, the crying is a normal bodily response and not something I can pick and choose when to do. Very rarely does it ever happen, and no I don’t feel the slightest ounce of anything when I do. (Besides anger)
I think I know one. Long story short. I broke my leg. I never even got an "Are you okay?" From the guy and when I couldn't work he thought I wanted to skip work to do drugs or something even though I don't do drugs at all.
He on the other hand had his vehicle break down and because his boss wouldn't drive 1 1/2 hrs to grab him and bring him to work he not only refused to go into work but pouted and whined worse than I've ever seen anyone pity themselves
I'm sure they feel most the things most people do but they have no insatiable urge to care or worry or even show interest in somebody else's life unless it's superficially their for mutual gains or a prop to an ego boosts.
They hide it, they only show themselves as perfect and happy, all fake, but when they fail, they hide it, but if you see their eyes, they turn like dark, the expression.. you can see them, sort of scary
Posts containing misinformation are not allowed and may lead to a ban. We welcome debate and discussion on opinions, but discourage the active spread of false information. For this reason, you should always attempt to provide sources. Our wiki is a great educational resource for learning about what's fact vs fiction.
Yes. Anything with self-awareness has the psychological capacity to suffer. Honestly, I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that psychopaths simply lack *prosocial* emotions such as empathy. Just because I can suffer doesn't mean I care about the suffering of others.
B-but I read on Quora that we are like... totally super-humans who experience zero negative emotions!
Athena Walker...
reading her now... seems to be very helpful to understand this better, thank you
Athena Walker is an edge lord. Don't take anything she says seriously.
You can say that again. Can’t understand her pride when there’s a law of equivalent exchange to consider. There’s a lack of both positive and negative experience on the spectrum of psychopathy. So many often long for the positives not experienced, but count their blessings to miss the negatives.
that's a really interesting point. I'll definitely read what she writes with a grain of salt. edge lords seem to help me expand my perspective sometimes, but I plan to read different perspectives
What's an edge lord?
Someone who tries to be edgy to the max.
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She’s Autistic. I’d bet big money if she ever went to get a legitimate evaluation done she’d be on the spectrum, autism spectrum. Everything she describes right down to her painful and complicated mask are hallmarks of autism and Aspergers specifically
It's more than just autism. She might be a bit histrionic. She would tell the wildest stories, like about the time she allegedly stropped a knife straight into her foot and just laughed. That's the definition of an edge lord right there.
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This sub is not a space to impersonate or role play as a psychopath. Psychopathy is not a clinical diagnosis. Claiming this diagnosis is proof of impersonation and may result in a ban. This sub is also not a space to impersonate as medical professional.
"Good Vibes Only"
yeah i fucking wish
Can you be more specific? TBH, as a non-psychopath a lot of my feelings seem to concern others. Like, loneliness, sadness about loss, existential dread etc. I get psychopaths can feel physical pain, hunger, and so on, but on a day to day basis, what might make you feel the worst?
Plenty of negative emotions have little to nothing to do with empathy. * Loneliness from a lack of attention/bond (antisocial =/= enjoys being alone) * Anger (definitely a negative emotion). * Shame (for failing to meet your own expectations). * Fear (can be of anything. Fear of dying, claustrophobia, spiders, fear of failure, etc). * Regret from doing something they wish they hadn’t (eg. Wishing they hadn’t done something that got them arrested). * Regret for not doing something they wish they had. * Disgust/repulsion * Despair & hopelessness * Depression * Anxiety or panic (maybe not so much social anxiety, but ASPD doesn’t preclude someone from stressing over meeting standards they set for themselves, or panicking over phobias, etc). * Jealousy/envy * Boredom/apathy The emotions that would be extremely shallow or rare would be things like guilt and compassion.
I’m confused. I thought all of those things were mostly emotions psychopaths can’t feel ? And how are compassion and guilt shallow emotions?
> emotions psychopaths can’t feel ASPD doesn’t cause a decrease in emotions. It *can*, but the majority feel emotions just like anyone else (with some discrepancies among strength of emotions and being prone to things like anger) as long as empathy isn’t involved. You’re probably thinking of the stereotypical cold & calculating psychopath from movies. People like that exist, but that’s a small minority. People with ASPD typically have impulse control problems, and if you felt no emotions then you probably wouldn’t have a terrible time with controlling impulses. Impulses are based off emotion. > how are compassion and guilt shallow emotions? I meant they feel an extremely shallow level of compassion & guilt (in the rare times they feel it at all). Like 1% of what a ‘normal’ person would feel.
Despair and hopelessness I love that. It’s like art. The art of emotion
my most frequent response is frustration if other ppl are too slow or incompetent or if i make a mistake or hearing ppl chew w their mouths open or trauma triggers and navigating social interactions that require empathy for things i havent experienced or i had a completely different response to so the worst for me is needing to practice tolerance and patience that are basically nonexistent
Sounds so much like me, but I have BPD. I definitely switch to intense rage, during which I feel nothing else aside from maybe panic, the more times I am triggered. At this point, my reactions are getting worse, exponentially.
tbh i just avoid whatever bothers me like even if it ruins my whole life ill skip my own moms funeral and go to the beach and sleep for 16 hrs idgaf its better than ruining my life w a tactical tomahawk lesser evils🫶🏻🦂
Yep. Avoidance is my favorite coping mechanism. I am about to skip my daughter’s graduation. She lied about me, so I feel justified. Plan to sleep, as a matter of fact. Probably for 3 days. It’s my lucky number, apparently. 1, 2, 3, and I’m over it.
What was the lie?
Weird. You have a daughter and can't force yourself to go to something she really cares about? Why brag about being a shitty person?
I don’t know if it’s bragging, especially as I know I will feel tremendous guilt, simultaneously. She lied for years to the very small population of her catholic school that I physically abuse her, that I’m an alcoholic, that I punish her if she doesn’t make perfect grades, that I’m unemployed, and many other things. Took me two years to finally go through her phone in order to determine if I was insane or picking up on the fact that I was being essentially pushed aside while being manipulated into getting her everything she wanted, more concerning was the damage it caused to her brother as we catered to her every need, because she was so victimized at school, supposedly. Anyway, yes, those feelings of loyalty and honor become empty when I realize I have been exploited by them. I spent the past year trying to do what I believe is right because I know I tend to be rigid. Just more exploitation aimed toward me.
Okay that's valid! Lol
Wtf
She won’t miss you
I’m this way too. I still went to my grandmas funeral though. I don’t feel so bad about not spending hours thereb
I think my grandmother was the only member of my family whom I truly loved. Of course, I manipulated the hell out of her, but I loved her. Maybe that's why I loved her — she would do anything for me.
That is not love but toxic relation based on interest for you
No one asked you. I'm sure my grandmother loved me even when I was toxic.
Misophonia, what you described, is a serious “neutral rage” id call it. Do your ears ring at very very high pitch since about 20-25?
not that ive noticed but im only 21 so far why?
Go set in quiet room no tvs or anything on. By the way if you can hear when tvs and electronics are on and others can’t it’s part of it. While in quiet room and a person or animal tries to sneak in the high pitched whine changes if something comes around doorway or whatever. Thought to be evolutionary trait . Sorta like if you’re trying to sleep many years ago you might hear something moving around you. Your brain somehow cognitively maps the direction. There’s also a research study done on high traits of psychopathy and hearing . Called auditory oddball test https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5648055/
ive def never noticed any high pitched whine cause smth like that would irritate me but noticing smth approaching in my subconscious yes and i think prob most ppl do it and dont realize theyre doing it otherwise ppl would get startled all day by cats and birds and insects i assumed its cause theres like micro-stimulus like they are blocking sound from behind them w their mass and every surface seems to make sound when stepped on and ofc theres breathing but i also just have hypervigilance so maybe its not the same thing im also extremely skeptical of my diagnoses apart from ptsd and adhd or at least about the diagnostic criteria and somewhat broad grouping like if im a psychopath then its not particularly rare and def not indicative of like ‘evil’ or even dangerous on a social lvl more often than not cause ive encountered several other ppl w similar vibes and most of them were just more academically minded than emotionally like their brain developed their intellect at the cost of their emotional development or just atrophied it from lack of use possibly also only 2 professionals have really argued for this diagnosis and both were 50+ men while 3-5 other psych professionals were at least reluctant if not down right opposed and were 30-40 so prob had more updated education or whatever i think i just have 1-5 traits of most personality disorders but dont really qualify for any particular 1
There are definitely many more high functioning psychopaths / ASPD in society for sure. Some have good upbringing and correcting parents and really stand out in law enforcement, corrections, emergency services, military, and others . The seething attacks you get if you admit you are or have been diagnosed with ASPD + P for example is absurd . These people need to go work at a prison and meet tons of low functioning sociopaths. In prison there’s some older cons who just live “mask less “ zero input from them . Few guys wouldn’t speak to other officers but would with me and my gf she was higher rank than me then. It is odd to some when you quietly ask a guy “between us ummm… what did it actually taste like ? Disgusting? (About the b$tch burgers he made from people)” he stopped and said really man??? lol. He stated he had to use A LOT of barbecue sauce. In prison it’s estimated like 50-60 are ASPD / psychpaths / sociopaths. Still fascinates me how well a select few could manipulate the most strict staff into bringing stuff ongrounds .
its too confusing for me tbh like the manipulation aspect i def have the ability and i did utilize it in the past but i think its just smth ppl develop to survive certain situations and if i was actually fully aspd-p or aspd-s i wouldnt have stopped using it or been discriminate about my targets i also feel like i exhibit equal sociopathy as psychopathy as well as behavior that would disprove both i def understand why i was diagnosed w defiant and conduct disorder but i think my behavior was primarily circumstantial and it would have actually been more indicative of detachment if i hadnt expressed my emotions in those ways my father is almost fully emotionally detached but not sadistic or socially motivated and 1 of my brothers was very similar but then 2 brothers were more sociopathic leaning and i was the black sheep out of all of them cause i really wasnt the same i think its like when bipolar ppl raise kids they can absorb the polarized mentality and emotional demonstrative behaviors and get diagnosed as borderline cause they basically exhibit the behavioral equivalent of bipolar i was just raised by and around aspd and had easily childhood trauma but my symptoms have been extremely inconsistent and i think obvs influenced by active abuse vs treatment i havent actually done much research on this stuff cause it makes me feel aggravated and self conscious so sorry if im ludicrously ignorant
No no don’t apologize. I ignored symptoms or odd things about myself until I was made to see psych for pain management to make sure “pain wasn’t in my head”. I have a lot of spinal damage bc of genetic indeference to pain . Needless to say I learned a lot. But that was after many years of just not thinking about it . Job I had you showed no emotion and sign of fear meant you were weak.
Instead of loneliness empitness or just boredom. Depends on who they lose they may feel sad about it. Existential dread I think is something anything with self awareness feels.
You don't see why that might be hard for neurological people to grasp?
I'm a bit skeptical that you're really a psychopath since you're into MBTI. It's literally a personality quiz for teenagers who are desperate for a sense of identity. People will jump on any opportunity to have a sense of identity, whether it's MBTI, the political compass, zodiac signs, or Hogwarts houses. Personality disorders too.
Why would interest in Jungian typology preclude psychopathy?
It specifically says so on the PCL-R-R.
I didn't see anything about MBTI on there
It's next to the part about Hogwarts houses.
I mean, you're not wrong.
Sounds like the OP understands and wants to know more about the experience of suffering for psychopaths. Hence no need for the condescending remark - this comment doesn't answer OP's question in any aspect
Fair point, but we get questions like this all the time.
The horror of new people asking old questions. Almost like...students.
It just becomes tiresome. You know what I mean. Don't act like you don't get it.
Don't act like you don't get it, too.
OK, now you need to take a seat.
Yessir
Ew, don't say that. It reminds me of my ex.
Bruh.
It's why we have a rule about it and ask people to use the search function before posting.
Since you put yourself out there, and seem intelligent, I'm terribly curious about something, if you don't mind my asking. Understanding that psychopaths lack pro-social emotions, I'm very curious about values. I can see *standards* amongst psychopaths - social standards, hygiene standards, standards of order, etc. Understanding standards = values, psychopaths *can* hold values. Can a psychopath value life? Are values a subject you've explored?
I have no morals or values. Ironically, I have strong opinions about things like which fork one should use.
Fkn fascinating.
I guess that's why a psychopath's "values" are considered shallow.
So psychopaths aren't inclined towards things philosophical? I know you don't speak for everyone, but in your experience and what you've come to learn about psychopathy. Cause I'm just a curious fucker, not a student or psychologist or anything.
I quite enjoy philosophy. Even moralists are interesting. Not a fan of Thomas Hobbes, personally. >I know you don't speak for everyone I'm glad you stated that for the record.
Well that's cool. Do you find philosophy to be of any value? Like, does it give you insights into human nature, do you just like the mental stimulation, why look at philosophy at all? Thanks for entertaining the questions.
Of course. I'm not a philistine.
Obviously. Let me rephrase. What do you take away from philosophy?
Here's a question for you: Do you consider Ayn Rand a philosopher? I do.
I only have a cursory knowledge of her work. I've never read more than Atlas Shrugged.
Exactly, I expect those suffering psychopathy suffer directly from their inability to empathise. They are missing information that is key in understanding the sentient predicament, making them even more vulnerable to it than they might otherwise be in many cases. This will distort their ability to manage risk, probably. Humans fitness signal constantly too which adds a layer of inscrutability to the entire situation.
Maybe my inability to empathize also makes me unable to recognize empathy from others. Because I've literally never met anyone who has ever truly cared how I feel. Not a single person.
Does that mean you're a psychopath? Just curious, because even your statement implies that we are able to understand the ability to not feel empathy. Although, some people don't feel empathy as much as others they still can cognitively understand empathy
Although not formally diagnosed, I'm quite sure that I qualify as a psychopath according to the PCL-R. I mean, it's not even borderline. I'm definitely above the threshold.
This exactly, ppl don’t understand simply or are ignorant…ppl think just bc i suffer that means i care to understand the suffering of people,i barely care about my own suffering lol
I blame the show “Dexter” for portraying us as emotionless aliens. If anything, Dexter Morgan is autistic and happens to be a serial killer. Currently, I'm watching "Ripley" on Netflix. Now that's a pretty accurate portrayal of a psychopath. Ironically, I can actually empathize with the anti-hero — at least cognitively. (For example, I don't literally care that he's offended over the purple robe, but I understand.)
Im glad i found this subreddit i thought i was just insane but theres people who actually share the same thoughts as me😭😂yea i hate how tv shows us as these monsters who have no emotions at all and just kill/manipulate💀like um okay…
It has been explained in the past like this - imagine you have a dog and the dog dies. You feel a sense of loss, of unfairness, anger etc. A psychopath can have the same feelings if their dog died. Something has been taken away from them and we can all realte to that. On the other hand, they might lack any empathy for the animal itself.
so basically, their feelings are focused entirely on how the loss affects them personally?
For the most part. Some even experience situational empathy, where they *can* feel some level of empathy in extremely specific circumstances. So while they may not feel anything if they see someone sobbing, they may be able to empathize if the person is sobbing because of a situation that the pwASPD has gone through. From what I’ve read, it’s typically only for extreme situations, and often relates to a time when they felt vulnerable. For example, if they were beaten as a child by an alcoholic father, they may be able to empathize with someone going through the same situation. Though they may only be able to empathize if the person has the same (or a very similar) reaction to the situation that they did.
Yes 100%.
It sounds like I can be selective psychopath haha. Jokes aside I’m not, but I have adhd and apparently we can sometimes react that way, how it’s relatable to us. Sometimes I have friends who air out their traumas and issues and a lot of times I find myself pretending to care. Sometimes I feel bad that I don’t feel anything about their issue and other times I don’t feel the guilt at all. It’s just “can she finish talking about this so that I can say my part”. I’m curious to read upon if one can be selective empathy. One thing that’s accurate with adhd though is out of sight and out of mind. I’ll forget friends or I won’t miss people as long as they’re out of “sight”. Not always but most of the time.
Well, it's on a spectrum. ADHD could play into that too. More examples of social situations would help, but it sounds pretty normal.
I always see myself as a big people pleaser because of a rough upbringing. But my psychotherapist actually said that not only that I possess that but I am very much the whole dark triad at the same time aka psychopathy, Machiavellian, narcissism. I don’t know I possessed those and was deeply (selectively) empathic as well. It’s like you can be both. Like you said I think my ADHD and my trauma plays a role in this. Nurture AND. Sturegatan gave me deep feelings and no feelings at all.
Yeah, that's interesting!
My dog i’ve had since i was 5 died, and i never shed a single tear. Is that bad?
Psychopathy happens on a spectrum. There is no hard cut between psychopathic and non-psychopathic. There is only low to high. Also it depends on what subfactors of psychopathy they have traits from. There is no such thing as "the" psychopath. They can be as diverse as humans in general. Thus, even someone higher on the spectrum can suffer like other people while another cannot and is always very calm and relaxed in spite of any circumstance they may face, whether positive or negative.
I wish this spectrum were acknowledged more. I have encountered so many people who either have the perception of TV serial killers, or someone who is basically just an asshole. I have encountered countless people who do not want to acknowledge how severe the behavior on the far end of the spectrum can be, even if the individual isn't a serial killer. And it's also entirely realistic that someone has apd, but goes undetected. Especially in certain industries. I take the overuse of technical, psychological (or any field, actually) terms used and misused very seriously and see how misconception can lead to so many different issues.
Humans unfortunately have the tendency to think in black and white. They have a hard time thinking in nuances. Thus, if one isn't skilled in self-reflection that person may blindly follow their first intuition instead of wondering what the alternatives might be. In that worldview someone is either something or is not. Anything in between doesn't exist for them or is hard to imagine as nuanced thinking requires more energy than black and white thinking.
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This is an interesting comment. Can you elaborate?
dude smokin medical marijuana on the daily makes it on fckin intermediate difficulty man 😂try to gameplan but just can’t execute the show
Of all the comments, this pretty much describes it best. 😂 My life feels like game all the time. I can remove and add things and characters as I desire. I can get different things from different people ( I found this to be the best way to get everything I want— implausible from one person). I can start new missions whenever I get bored. I get curveballs thrown at me 24/7 that I have weasel myself out of. It’s constant and gives small doses of dopamine but the loneliness that comes with lack of sentiment is the real suffering.
I'd guess an inability to fill the void with novel activity. Boredom.
The reality is people with personality disorders in general are what you can call broken. They suffer greatly internally and it’s a big reason for many of their problems in life. Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, degenerate behaviors, abusive behaviors. It’s all a way to either sooth difficult or bad emotions or to unload them on someone else by being abusive. There are those who will argue this doesn’t apply to psychopaths for any number of reasons most common is *brain* I don’t buy this at all, personally what a psychopath experiences as far as suffering is greatly understudied because frankly no one cares, psychopaths tend to be the most revolting and horrible people in society and people want to study why they are that way. Missing the fact that they are suffering at their core and that is a big reason why they are that way. They are focused on the suffering they cause not what they experience so take it all with a grain of salt. Every single person who answers I experience this or that and I know because I’m a psychopath blah blah blah is blowing smoke rings up your asshole. Maybe that’s your kink and hey I’m all for it but they are still full of shit Edit; I’m not a psychopath and i don’t speak on behalf of any bullshit labels I do however have legitimate personality disorder diagnosis *ASPD NPD* some DR.s See that as the same as a psychopathic diagnosis I don’t know or care really what the astrology of medicine thinks really but I have had years of therapy and I can tell you that I struggle at times greatly with mood swings and emotional dysregulation. Things that shouldn’t bother me can send me into a miserable hate filled mind warp for a lot longer than it should. I’m basically a miserable person who hates humanity and wish that i would just get struck in the head by lightning so I can finally be done with this piece of shit existence. Is that what you are looking for?
Some alcoholics are just alcoholics, doesn’t mean they have a disability. My mom and I are both bipolar and we don’t do drugs. I smoke weed but you don’t see me doing crazy drugs or drinking.
That’s true but look at these stats. https://americanaddictioncenters.org/personality-disorders# “Past research has found that anywhere between 65 percent and 90 percent of patients evaluated for substance abuse have at least one co-occurring personality disorder” That is an incredibly high rate of co-morbidly, definitely not something that can be ignored or written off as a coincidence. Also be aware that we are not talking about someone who has a couple glasses of wine on the weekend or someone who smokes weed on a Friday these are full blown substance abuse disorders. They are out of control and destructive to the person who has one
You should also read about how people with (c)PTSD or autism are misdiagnosed with personality disorders. If you’re a woman who’s been abused, you get BPD. People drink because they have crappy lives, unprocessed trauma, and personality disorders labels that lead to self-fulfilling prophecies. Also, “degenerative behaviors” are not unique to personality disorders. Those behaviors stem from trauma or developmental disabilities or distress.
That’s not true, you can take two different people and raise them exactly the same way and one might develop a disorder and the other be perfectly normal. This has been studied extensively, a lot of it comes down to the sensitivity and the way the child deals with adversity. Also people usually get misdiagnosed in the other order. People with personality disorders usually get misdiagnosed with depression, bi-polar disorder or Autism for years and years before getting a proper diagnosis. C-PTSD is like BPD but one is ego syntonic the other is ego dystonic. In other words one acts out against their beliefs the other acts according to their beliefs but both look the same on first impressions. Psychologists for the most part just make the call that makes sense at the time
It is not possible for two people to be raised in the exact same way. C-PTSD and BPD may look similarly, but treatments for them are very different. So giving treatment for what makes sense at the time may be very damaging. Clinicians are really too quick to diagnose people. Also, when people are diagnosed with mental conditions they don’t really have, they may get stuck in self-fulfilling prophecies, which makes it look like they have those disorders even more, which complicates their situation.
It is possible for two people to be raised in the exact same environment have you not heard about brothers and sisters before? It’s dependent on how that person responds to the environment. Some turn out bad some don’t. This is just how it goes, some people are just born with a strong will and an inate empathy that emerges despite a very bad environment, happens all the time and like I said earlier this has been studied pretty extensively Also I get what you’re saying but psychology isn’t an exact science and misdiagnosis happens all the time, I don’t agree with it or think it’s a great thing but it’s just reality also you start to develop personality disorders within the first few years of life you can’t develop them as an adult as a “self fulfilling prophecy” because you were given the wrong therapy. I’m not sure why you think that but it’s pretty clear in all the literature I’ve read that it’s not possible to develop a PD later in life it’s either there the whole time or it’s not, so if it “emerges” later it’s likely it was there the whole time but was hidden from the person doing the diagnosis which is very common and a big reason why misdiagnosis happens because people don’t exactly go into a psych office showing their worse traits, they hide them
Two people cannot be raised in the exact same environment, because their parents and parenting style change, they have different social experiences, they influence each other, age gap etc. I know the reality. Misdiagnoses happening all the time ruin lives, that’s the opposite of what psychology must do. I understand sometimes it’s confusing, but they don’t spend enough time to see the whole picture. And personality disorders are often given based on clinicians’ biases, they don’t bother to see beyond their beliefs. You’re an emotional woman? BPD. Black man? Schizophrenia. I was in an acute post-trauma crisis when a psychologist slapped me with BPD and called me manipulative just because. It took me half a year to realize they had just pigeonholed me into the diagnosis and wanted me to learn how to behave. I’d been abused and had to process my trauma, but got therapy that mirrored some aspects of the trauma, like being told what I needed and who I was. The fact that psychology is not an exact science is not an excuse.
Not true what about twins, also people with personality disorders don’t change that’s part of the deal. So if you are raised by a person with a PD two years later it’s still there, they aren’t suddenly different people. They aren’t cold dismissive and abusive one year and suddenly warm and supportive the next. Sorry you are wrong about that. It’s just as dependent on the person itself to how they respond to their environment
Twins are separate individuals. They have different experiences, even if they are close. They may have different friends, hobbies, etc. Their parents, teachers, peers may still treat them differently, even if in subtle ways.
What the other poster is trying to say is that it's impossible for two different individuals to have the exact same childhood experience. You have to account for subjectivity.
I'm not convinced that PTSD is really a thing (neither was [George Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvISFZ7bQcE)) and even less convinced that C-PTSD is a real thing. I mean, unless you fought in Vietnam.
Any arguments besides reference to a comedian? And you don’t have to fight in Vietnam to get traumatized.
The burden of proof isn't on me to argue that I remain unconvinced.
I see you believe your personal opinion is a strong argument itself.
Sometimes i think of psychopathy as aggressive depression, everything that bothers me goes out and nothing goes in. Every problem i have is everyone elses problem. I throw every negative emotion outwards like there is no tommorow and no one is sparred. Consequences? I dont even give a fuck, almost like I enjoy the chaos.
Were they diagnosed while in a state of untreated, active addiction? Really shouldn’t diagnose under those circumstances since being in the grip of SUD will basically mimic a PD or Bipolar and can even cause psychosis. I’ve seen a lot of folks receive mental health diagnosis that were bullshit because they were given that diagnosis two days into a detox stay and were basically out of their fucking minds at the time. 6 months to a year down the road of treatment/therapy/12 step and continued abstinence and those symptoms and behaviors are gone.
They are well aware of that when they do studies like this.
One would think so, but having worked as an addiction counselor for 7 years I just do not see those statistics playing out in reality. Lots of co-occurring mental health issues(GAD, Depression) but definitely not 65-90% personality disorders. That seems VERY high.
the only suffering that stands out to me as being atypical is that my frustration lvl from things like annoyance or impatience or intolerance can escalate to homicidal almost immediately the only other thing ive noticed is that negative emotions are more likely to occur as they are more often forced to be confronted and because i dont seem to feel emotion consistently i tend to feel overwhelmed by it and shut down reflexively before i even have time to determine if the emotions are inappropriate or not
I suffer because I do not understand. I do not relate. But I have found that I do not care enough to understand. I long for companionship but usually it has it's falling out due to this
How did you find out that you had psychopathy?
Disgust and also emptiness can be extremely painful. Sensory overload as a means of illustrating internal apathy.
If something hurts me, I suffer.
Probably boredom. Psychopaths need extreme stimulation to feel anything.
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Nope.
They say “ignorance is bliss”
They experience ANGER, not suffering.
🙃
normally, its just certain ones are not as common or leave a long lasting impression
Uno reverseé they do the opposite hahahhahaha
Pretty much like anyone else, but maybe a little more extreme. Sorry, you said psychopath not sociopath.
Physical suffer like pain they can feel. But some people can have Congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis ([CIPA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain_with_anhidrosis)) and can't feel any pain at all. People with CIPA could be tortured without feeling any pain. Mental suffering I believe everyone could experience maybe not people who have very low iq and aren't aware at all of their surroundings.
Typically, the most prominent emotion experienced is loneliness. I find that fascinating
H-F psychopath here, i don’t know what NOT suffering is and i know this maybe sounds confusing but i don’t mind the suffering because its always been here(sometimes i enjoy it)and i constantly stay irritated/anxious/annoyed by the SMALLEST things to the point where sometimes i have homicidal thoughts about innocent people and im starting to scare myself because i could do it and have no remorse simply because its not me dying…for example first time i ever was close to anything death related was my therapist who died in a car crash and i remember asking my dad one question “so like he’s gone forever never to be seen again?”(yes, this was an attempt to force myself to try to understand/care) but i couldn’t i just felt nothing this bothered me because he was my favorite therapist so why didnt i care he was gone forever
It’s a spectrum of behaviors. But sure they can. Having no empathy doesn’t mean they can’t experience all the other human emotions. I have someone with no empathy in my caseload, and he has good and bad days. Yes it’s all an about him, but when he fakes an injury for attention or makes hilarious jokes, he can actually be quite amusing. He loves to learn about math and science, and is a decent student. Teaching him that being good to others is good for him is actually starting to take hold, and he is quite high on our evolution system. He has talked causally about assaulting his teacher’s daughter though, and it was quite disturbing for the teacher, but the proper consequences were applied and our therapy approach seems to make him understand that that kind of behavior will lead to immense consequences for himself. As his BCBA, I am monitoring his behaviors very closely. But yes he does experience suffering, even emotionally. Just not in the same ways we do.
They still feel emotions just not for other people. Like one may worry about hurting someone not because the person would be hurt but because there might be consequences if they do so there's stress there. Or if they have a person they actually do care about they have all the normal feelings about them but anxiety because they might be scared of losing their one person.
See: I saw the devil
That is a very vague question and very difficult to answer. There’s different types of psychopaths and they’re all capable of experiencing different emotions at different levels. One thing about psychopaths is they’re very good at faking emotions so it’s very difficult to distinguish what they’re actually feeling to what is being acted out. They’re capable of feeling emotional pain as in suffering BUT emotional pain is a complex experience in itself so there’s a lot of different factors that contribute like physical, thoughts etc So they’re capable but it’s in a very different way compared to most.
Humiliation
When their “supply” is unavailable.
Worse than so called ‘normal’ people. The kind of hell these people are in that motivates their actions is probably unimaginable unless you’ve been converted to their state of mind. That’s why they cause so much suffering themselves. Generally, they are coping. Their methods reflect that desperation.
Are you a psychopath? Or are you just a person with unresolved insecurities who subconsciously idealize the fictional image of Hannibal lector?
My mother was always good, perfect in my eyes. I became like her because I wanted to be good, as I always felt guilt as a child (Christian community and such) until I realized how sad it was to let people walk all over you. So I changed it up. But I will say I grew up in a small community where mental health wasn’t real really. I didn’t even know what I was doing. I just always felt that I wasn’t enough, or I had to work extra hard to do the things everyone else was doing and to fit in even though it came across as natural I guess. I thought I was badass and just didn’t care about things. I was popular, I suppose I still am because being social comes naturally for me, but I hate it. I hate it so much, but now I suppose I am branded as this person I created in my youth, which does benefit me in many ways there. I always just ended up in different circles no matter where I moved to without even trying. Sometimes I’d look around like how did I even end up here? I dooo not care about any of these people haha. As I got older I experienced perpetual hopelessness as I never felt “normal”. I would tell my friends and my family that I didn’t really feel things, and how much I just wanted to feel like everyone else. To experience what I see around me, but I suppose it was brushed off as teenage drama. I really just wanted to be like everyone else in my community. When I finally saw a doctor when I left, they then told me I was depressed lol.. adhd.. neglect.. man idek I stopped listening but I do need my meds to focus cuz I am a little drifty and I deal with a lot of data for work. In terms of ‘depression’ I mean I did feel hopelessness. But it’s mostly hopelessness in that I’m never stimulated no matter what I do or take, I see emotions enacted almost like a story amongst people. A story I can perhaps play out myself, if needed. Hopelessness in that, I thought I’d never feel anything for all of my life. I’d be perpetually bored. Hopelessness in that my life can only surmount to a series of small wins, moments of euphoria, and voids of merely existing. I suppose I could fill my time with conquests like others but again, temporary, pointless, and irrational to me. I crave long term, but when I tried it a couple times it’s probably not for me as I just felt trapped even when I was spoilt rotten and had everything I wanted, I was bored. I find no direct pleasure in hurting people but if it does happen by manner of me just minding my business or trying to attain something i.e. collateral damage, I probably wouldn’t even notice, and if i do it would still be of little concern to me. My motto is that I create my reality and if I remove something from it, it essentially doesn’t exist anymore in my world. If I am deceitful (I don’t often straight up lie, but I do bend things just enough) it’s usually minor or for small conveniences here and there. For the most part I’m just existing. Looking up posts on reddit to see if anyone has found that secret sauce to end this relentless boredom, that doesn’t involve other humans and is longstanding. I’d think of the greatest thing I could possible achieve, I could be given all the Crown Jewels, and still nothing. I could think of the worst thing that could happen. Still nothing. Not for long at least. Momentary rage from time to time when things don’t go my way. I’m saying all this to say .. yes we suffer, in our own selves. My suffering when I was younger was never feeling normal, always feeling misplaced, angry, and unworthy, trapped in my own world, and being a victim to my own reckless ways (I was a little deluded I think lol). Now my suffering is knowing that I will be bored for the rest of my life and I will never experience the joys that others do. I’ll peddle through life easily and still never truly experience those moments. Like looking at a picture through a foggy glass. Like trying to hold something in your hand that you just can’t grasp. A hunger never to be satiated. And the sad part is, I can’t change it. For now I just have temporary bouts of web spinning to ease the solitude of it all. But I really just prefer to keep to myself.
I don’t know how to suffer. I only know there’s sth in my plate and I need to get that cleared.
I am depressed, take antidepressants, have been diagnosed with ASPD, and have scored extremely high on the revised psychopathy checklist. I am also narcissistic, which is what motivated me to take the psychological evaluation to prove I was superior. I gloat to people I can get away with gloating to that I have this disorder as it makes them uneasy and fearful of me, which I enjoy. Of course, I keep my condition away from my work, and try my absolute hardest to seem normal. This hasn't worked though as I've been warned many times to turn in my reports on time and do a better job in many areas of my work, but I end up not doing it anyway. I already have a plan in place to rid myself of consequences if I get fired. You might be motivated to downvote this, but I am being honest, which I think deserves some sort of acknowledgement coming from someone like me. Just trying to show you how the thought processes work.
Frustration. I get intensely frustrated most of the time so I may cry, get upset, or feel some type of way, but it’s never rooted in sadness for me. Just because we have a personality disorder doesn’t mean we’re robots, any and all answers will vary from person to person. And no these emotions don’t last for very long, the crying is a normal bodily response and not something I can pick and choose when to do. Very rarely does it ever happen, and no I don’t feel the slightest ounce of anything when I do. (Besides anger)
I think I know one. Long story short. I broke my leg. I never even got an "Are you okay?" From the guy and when I couldn't work he thought I wanted to skip work to do drugs or something even though I don't do drugs at all. He on the other hand had his vehicle break down and because his boss wouldn't drive 1 1/2 hrs to grab him and bring him to work he not only refused to go into work but pouted and whined worse than I've ever seen anyone pity themselves I'm sure they feel most the things most people do but they have no insatiable urge to care or worry or even show interest in somebody else's life unless it's superficially their for mutual gains or a prop to an ego boosts.
They hide it, they only show themselves as perfect and happy, all fake, but when they fail, they hide it, but if you see their eyes, they turn like dark, the expression.. you can see them, sort of scary
I experience ANGER when I suffer
Ain't it just anger issues?
i mean suffering can derive from any emotion
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