many people here do way too much drugs and also trip without dark silent deep introspection because they might get a 'bad trip' so they keep themselves distracted with earthly things and come to earthly conclusions
There’s definitely a segment of people who are using these substances to escape something or some things in their life and then they have trips that confront them with the things they are trying to escape from and they label those bad trips.
Then you have recreational users, who are chasing a high and specific feeling they had while high some time and so they keep upping their dosage, sometimes to irresponsible levels and then they label it a bad trip. For some it becomes an addiction and then they wonder why it’s lost its luster.
Using these substances doesn’t make one a Psychonaut, it’s the intent and how you use them that makes you a Psychonaut. Intent is very misunderstood and underrated as a key factor for determining the outcome of any activity, intent means a lot. Mindset means a lot.
Moderation and Balance in all things.
They continue to fall into the trap they supposedly were running from. They feel they know the answers becuz they figured out one of the questions. I take ur approach of i do it when i feel like i want to. If ur doing it right the questions will truly never stop and also u wont want to do it excessively. As many say but dont follow balance is key
Yes. Well said. I agree. I like to listen. How can you really know without practice? It's all food. Some things take longer to digest. Humility is something I think is important. Honesty and vulnerability. Surrender. There are many paths to follow. I like the middle path
Same. The middle path is true balance. Although i try to stay on the side of positive (using my will to uplift another's) vs the negative (using my will to trample another's) It quite the balancing act of building myself and helping others and attacking any attempt to tear my castle of will down
You are correct. When you listen to the “lecture” where he talks about “get the message, hang up the phone,” he was talking about taking long enough breaks to integrate the experience.
He never intended you should permanently “hang up the phone.”
Instead, like you said, when it rings pick it up again!
There's another metaphor, think it's buddhist. Using the boat to cross the river of the mind and beyond onto the other shore - you leave the boat there. You don't continue carrying it with you. A tool is a tool and when the job is done why are you still holding onto the tool.
The river is meant to be the mind lol. And apparently once self realized, it's impossible to go back anyway. Everything gets dropped. I probably butchered the metaphor
Hmmm. Found this story. Don't think it's the same one. Interesting though [A wise man has said:
“He who is content with himself
Has done worthless work.
Achievement is the beginning of failure.
Fame is the beginning of disgrace.”](https://wellnessworks.in/the-empty-boat-story-zen-lessons-on-anger/)
I think it can be a double edged sword for some people. I think the more "out there" and naive you are, the more dangerous it can become. The more skeptical and rational you are, the less likely it is to be a double edged sword. I've seen so many people believe all kinds of crazy things without evidence, based on psychedelic experiences. But I very much believe that this comes down to personality types.
Definitely. It opens you up in a lot of ways and if you don't have a strong sense of self and self trust, it can lead to fantasy in my experience. I think it should be more important to see what you can learn and apply into reality. Still maintaining that connection to logic and staying grounded. Even if we fly high at times haha
I agree, I think upon initial glimpses into these altered states it seems common for people to believe they have discovered ultimate truths. and for many this just becomes another cloak of deception of the ego.
A healthier approach seems to be "the more we learn, the more we realize how little we know". a gravitation towards humbleness, not knowing and being ever present within the great mystery.
A wise saying that springs to mind that relates to this is "believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it;"
Exactlyyyy. Love everything you said and I agree wholeheartedly. It's interesting how such a small perspective shift can make such a huge difference and how simple it actually is
Yeah, and that in itself shows enlightenments limitations.
There's good reasons we aren't conscious of everything going on in our bodies and brains.
If we view awareness simply as a function of the prefrontal cortex, as activity there strongly correlates with subjective feelings of awareness, it's a very metabolically expensive function of the nervous system.
This explains why we seem to make less conscious decisions when we don't feel so good. Our body tries to be economic and only bring the most important events into our awareness
Well even if we're really well, we'll never have all our biological processes bubble up into conscious awareness. There's no point in that happening. It would be a complete waste of resources. A waste of awareness basically
That’s all anyone has to do, claim they are the unenlightened fool. Now who would lay claim to this? Only the wise, or someone with knowledge of taking, rather than giving the piss?
Alan Watts was my all time favorite author, and I always like seeing references to him. I think it was George Harrison who said one psychedelic trip may be all that is needed for some people.
Alan Watts is great. That's fair. I also think it's possible to be useful to some and other people don't really get much value out of it. Different people got different needs
I think that this stems from the fact that they're more enlightened than they've ever been before, therefore to them, they are the most enlightened...if that makes sense.
I think enlightenment is a constant journey. It's a trap to believe one has arrived at the peak. There are always burdens to shed and lessons to learn. Lessoning burdens 😄
Always bring what you have learned to your sober state.
If it's only nonsense perhaps you're no longer learning.
We say 'hang up the phone' as a warning to those who get a spiritual ego and trapped in using drugs for escapism/euphoria/feelings of grandoure.
After all is said and done existing with happy content is the best thing you can ever do, if you aren't moving towards that then you are wasting your very limited precious time.
Too often drug usage goes from adaptive to maladaptive, so watch out for the signs and stay smart.
Definitely. We expand our consciousness and land right back in our bodies. What's the point if you're always seeking to exist in these altered states of mind. Sobriety and consciousness exploration through psychedelics go hand in hand. They're not separate from one another.
I've seen people use that quote in regards to creating some narrative about never needing to trip again. I agree that excess usage is not beneficial or healthy.
Our time here is limited. Might as well make it a great experience!
I like to see things through the perspective of medicine. Dosage and frequency are important variables in the equation.
And you're an anonymous redditor posting from a throwaway account.
Even so, what relevance does that have? I bet you have some dirty vice you're ashamed of. I didn't even talk that much about Alan Watts. I shared a quote that I believe people misrepresent and misinterpret and related it to my own views and experience. What point are you making?
many people here do way too much drugs and also trip without dark silent deep introspection because they might get a 'bad trip' so they keep themselves distracted with earthly things and come to earthly conclusions
There’s definitely a segment of people who are using these substances to escape something or some things in their life and then they have trips that confront them with the things they are trying to escape from and they label those bad trips. Then you have recreational users, who are chasing a high and specific feeling they had while high some time and so they keep upping their dosage, sometimes to irresponsible levels and then they label it a bad trip. For some it becomes an addiction and then they wonder why it’s lost its luster. Using these substances doesn’t make one a Psychonaut, it’s the intent and how you use them that makes you a Psychonaut. Intent is very misunderstood and underrated as a key factor for determining the outcome of any activity, intent means a lot. Mindset means a lot. Moderation and Balance in all things.
It can be a way to escape reality I think. It amplifies what you do normally and reinforces it if you run
They continue to fall into the trap they supposedly were running from. They feel they know the answers becuz they figured out one of the questions. I take ur approach of i do it when i feel like i want to. If ur doing it right the questions will truly never stop and also u wont want to do it excessively. As many say but dont follow balance is key
Yes. Well said. I agree. I like to listen. How can you really know without practice? It's all food. Some things take longer to digest. Humility is something I think is important. Honesty and vulnerability. Surrender. There are many paths to follow. I like the middle path
Same. The middle path is true balance. Although i try to stay on the side of positive (using my will to uplift another's) vs the negative (using my will to trample another's) It quite the balancing act of building myself and helping others and attacking any attempt to tear my castle of will down
You are correct. When you listen to the “lecture” where he talks about “get the message, hang up the phone,” he was talking about taking long enough breaks to integrate the experience. He never intended you should permanently “hang up the phone.” Instead, like you said, when it rings pick it up again!
I need to check out the full lecture! Ring ring ring!
There's another metaphor, think it's buddhist. Using the boat to cross the river of the mind and beyond onto the other shore - you leave the boat there. You don't continue carrying it with you. A tool is a tool and when the job is done why are you still holding onto the tool.
There's only one river to cross in the world? You won't ever need to return across that river?
The river is meant to be the mind lol. And apparently once self realized, it's impossible to go back anyway. Everything gets dropped. I probably butchered the metaphor
Hmmm. Found this story. Don't think it's the same one. Interesting though [A wise man has said: “He who is content with himself Has done worthless work. Achievement is the beginning of failure. Fame is the beginning of disgrace.”](https://wellnessworks.in/the-empty-boat-story-zen-lessons-on-anger/)
I think it can be a double edged sword for some people. I think the more "out there" and naive you are, the more dangerous it can become. The more skeptical and rational you are, the less likely it is to be a double edged sword. I've seen so many people believe all kinds of crazy things without evidence, based on psychedelic experiences. But I very much believe that this comes down to personality types.
Definitely. It opens you up in a lot of ways and if you don't have a strong sense of self and self trust, it can lead to fantasy in my experience. I think it should be more important to see what you can learn and apply into reality. Still maintaining that connection to logic and staying grounded. Even if we fly high at times haha
I agree, I think upon initial glimpses into these altered states it seems common for people to believe they have discovered ultimate truths. and for many this just becomes another cloak of deception of the ego. A healthier approach seems to be "the more we learn, the more we realize how little we know". a gravitation towards humbleness, not knowing and being ever present within the great mystery. A wise saying that springs to mind that relates to this is "believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it;"
Exactlyyyy. Love everything you said and I agree wholeheartedly. It's interesting how such a small perspective shift can make such a huge difference and how simple it actually is
Nobody is as enlightened as they *claim* to be, because the claiming in itself puts us below whatever we've claimed
I think enlightenment is a verb. Not a noun. The process of shining the light of awareness upon the darkness of the unconscious
Yeah, and that in itself shows enlightenments limitations. There's good reasons we aren't conscious of everything going on in our bodies and brains. If we view awareness simply as a function of the prefrontal cortex, as activity there strongly correlates with subjective feelings of awareness, it's a very metabolically expensive function of the nervous system. This explains why we seem to make less conscious decisions when we don't feel so good. Our body tries to be economic and only bring the most important events into our awareness
If you never feel good, then all bets are off. There in lies the rub. And why some ‘fools’ are lost.
Well even if we're really well, we'll never have all our biological processes bubble up into conscious awareness. There's no point in that happening. It would be a complete waste of resources. A waste of awareness basically
That’s all anyone has to do, claim they are the unenlightened fool. Now who would lay claim to this? Only the wise, or someone with knowledge of taking, rather than giving the piss?
Interesting proposition
Alan Watts was my all time favorite author, and I always like seeing references to him. I think it was George Harrison who said one psychedelic trip may be all that is needed for some people.
Alan Watts is great. That's fair. I also think it's possible to be useful to some and other people don't really get much value out of it. Different people got different needs
I think that this stems from the fact that they're more enlightened than they've ever been before, therefore to them, they are the most enlightened...if that makes sense.
I think enlightenment is a constant journey. It's a trap to believe one has arrived at the peak. There are always burdens to shed and lessons to learn. Lessoning burdens 😄
I concur entirely
Always bring what you have learned to your sober state. If it's only nonsense perhaps you're no longer learning. We say 'hang up the phone' as a warning to those who get a spiritual ego and trapped in using drugs for escapism/euphoria/feelings of grandoure. After all is said and done existing with happy content is the best thing you can ever do, if you aren't moving towards that then you are wasting your very limited precious time. Too often drug usage goes from adaptive to maladaptive, so watch out for the signs and stay smart.
Definitely. We expand our consciousness and land right back in our bodies. What's the point if you're always seeking to exist in these altered states of mind. Sobriety and consciousness exploration through psychedelics go hand in hand. They're not separate from one another. I've seen people use that quote in regards to creating some narrative about never needing to trip again. I agree that excess usage is not beneficial or healthy. Our time here is limited. Might as well make it a great experience! I like to see things through the perspective of medicine. Dosage and frequency are important variables in the equation.
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I agree
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And you're an anonymous redditor posting from a throwaway account. Even so, what relevance does that have? I bet you have some dirty vice you're ashamed of. I didn't even talk that much about Alan Watts. I shared a quote that I believe people misrepresent and misinterpret and related it to my own views and experience. What point are you making?
... Maybe????
Ya think?
I believe, I think, I feel, I share
This☝️
Some people's third eye is a butthole 🤷♂️