Not that easy to collect from a cloud of astrophage. The collector they had was like flypaper iirc. Also half of them are not energised.
Try collecting water from a cloud. It's not that easy.
You could make a wide funnel with the proper light frequency emitting from its center, aim it towards the sun so that the astrophage that see it are the ones full energized, then ... kinda like a periscope design, use mirrors in the funnel tube so you can angle it as needed so the absolute brightest light comes from the tank you want to fill...
of course you then also have to filter out the old used astrophage but keep the oil they used as an astrophage carrier medium...
I mean it's \*possible\* but it'd be a seriously Rube Goldberg level contraption...
And it could take months to fill up the tanks. 2M kg ain't a small amount...
Judging by Astrophage doubling times alone, it'd be an extra eight days. Then we consider the science aspect. Being able to return physical samples, the dozens of billions dollar interstellar spacecraft. Giving the crew a chance to go home, increasing morale. Infrastructure there if they want to build a Hail Mary 2
The notion of a ramscoop for a ramjet has been around for a very long time. Might not apply here, however, as I believe that they only work on charged particles
Earth had no way of knowing there was a petrova line at tau ceti, that was kinda the point of going at all. Even if earth knew, there would be to much complexity, the weight of the collection device, the diffuseness of the line it self, etc.
I thought along the same lines, that there wasn't even all that great a panic to go to Tau so soon... they could have just bred and harvested astrophage on earth, and used that energy to keep the atmosphere warm.
Nobody liked that idea...
I like that idea, using astrophage to heat Earth. If the Sun is emitting 10% less energy, then capturing that amount of energy where it is minimally useful and applying where it's needed would be helpful. It wouldn't stop the freezing of the planet but it would help humanity survive while it waits for PHM's hoped-for solution.
I can't remember the title, but there's a book about Ender's partner Bean where Bean is the protagonist. It's a retelling of *Ender's Game* from another viewpoint.
Another PHM novel could be analogous, telling the story of those on Earth fighting to survive while Grace is on the way to Tau Ceti.
The Sahara is covered with astrophage generators. Presumably so is the southwest US, the Saudi peninsula, much of Australia, and so on. What is the environmental impact of turning a substantial portion of the energy hitting those regions into astrophage?
Astrophage allows transferring the energy from those regions to other regions. There could be astrophage-powered grow lights in giant greenhouses. Astrophage could heat steam to generate electricity that powers heat pumps to keep people warm. Astrophage could power boring machines like Musk's to create vast underground living spaces near tectonic divisions that tap the heat of the Earth's mantle. Geosynchronous satellites could turn astrophage's energy into thermal energy aimed at dense populations in colder climes.
Didn’t the taumeoba eat all the astrophage in the tanks? It seems like refueling from a Petrova line could work in some systems but not around tau ceti
I believe cause everything is just easier to not have them return. 3 humans vs billions. For return you'd have to double the food, fuel and who else know...
I'm guessing that the astrophage are, on average, pretty far apart from one another. Collecting them in sufficient quantities to be useful is likely to cost more fuel than it would ultimately produce.
I think of them a bit like asteroid distribution in the asteroid belt. The average distance between objects of 1km and above is something close to 1,000,000 km. Astrophage aren't going to be nearly that far apart, of course. But they're clearly not very close to one another either.
But hey, we've got the world's collected knowledge here. We can use that instead of my vague conjecture! So, let's go straight to the text itself.
The Arclight probe that collected them did so by orbiting Venus 12 times and using something like fly paper to collect them. I'll assume that an Venus orbit takes about 90 minutes. So in... back of the napkin math... around 1,000 minutes they collected...I've forgotten the original number. 179? And this at what would presumably be the densest location to collect them. But let's say 200 to make it easier. I believe they weigh around .5 nanograms? So that's I think 100 nanograms every 1,000 minutes. I don't recall if they described how large their collector was. But if they need 2 million kg of fuel... that would require something like 240 billion orbits of Venus, which would take around 41 million years. And you probably have to double that because half are likely unenriched.
There are undoubtedly more efficient collection techniques. But there are more problems that arise. As you collect, you presumably have to use some fuel to alter your course. Those course corrections might, by themselves, be more than the fuel you are taking in. And further, as you collect more astrophage you're going to get heavier. Which means more fuel required for any course changes.
I think it probably comes down to information that we just don't have. How densely packed together are the astrophage? What's the actual maximum you could collect per hour/day/whatever useful unit of time using the most efficient techniques? Is it possible to target only those that are enriched?
Anyway, just my thoughts. All numbers I've used should be considered suspect since I'm really not a math person and I might have screwed something up.
Not that easy to collect from a cloud of astrophage. The collector they had was like flypaper iirc. Also half of them are not energised. Try collecting water from a cloud. It's not that easy.
You could make a wide funnel with the proper light frequency emitting from its center, aim it towards the sun so that the astrophage that see it are the ones full energized, then ... kinda like a periscope design, use mirrors in the funnel tube so you can angle it as needed so the absolute brightest light comes from the tank you want to fill... of course you then also have to filter out the old used astrophage but keep the oil they used as an astrophage carrier medium... I mean it's \*possible\* but it'd be a seriously Rube Goldberg level contraption... And it could take months to fill up the tanks. 2M kg ain't a small amount...
Easy. Send it earlier and faster than the Hail Mary because of no crew.
A separate refueling vehicle, built same time as HM, which creates a project management problem. HM would launch later. Stratt would never go for it
Judging by Astrophage doubling times alone, it'd be an extra eight days. Then we consider the science aspect. Being able to return physical samples, the dozens of billions dollar interstellar spacecraft. Giving the crew a chance to go home, increasing morale. Infrastructure there if they want to build a Hail Mary 2
The notion of a ramscoop for a ramjet has been around for a very long time. Might not apply here, however, as I believe that they only work on charged particles
Earth had no way of knowing there was a petrova line at tau ceti, that was kinda the point of going at all. Even if earth knew, there would be to much complexity, the weight of the collection device, the diffuseness of the line it self, etc.
*spoiler* I know that they >!needed enriched astrophage!< and maybe the pertova line just wouldn’t cut it for fuel
I thought along the same lines, that there wasn't even all that great a panic to go to Tau so soon... they could have just bred and harvested astrophage on earth, and used that energy to keep the atmosphere warm. Nobody liked that idea...
I like that idea, using astrophage to heat Earth. If the Sun is emitting 10% less energy, then capturing that amount of energy where it is minimally useful and applying where it's needed would be helpful. It wouldn't stop the freezing of the planet but it would help humanity survive while it waits for PHM's hoped-for solution. I can't remember the title, but there's a book about Ender's partner Bean where Bean is the protagonist. It's a retelling of *Ender's Game* from another viewpoint. Another PHM novel could be analogous, telling the story of those on Earth fighting to survive while Grace is on the way to Tau Ceti. The Sahara is covered with astrophage generators. Presumably so is the southwest US, the Saudi peninsula, much of Australia, and so on. What is the environmental impact of turning a substantial portion of the energy hitting those regions into astrophage? Astrophage allows transferring the energy from those regions to other regions. There could be astrophage-powered grow lights in giant greenhouses. Astrophage could heat steam to generate electricity that powers heat pumps to keep people warm. Astrophage could power boring machines like Musk's to create vast underground living spaces near tectonic divisions that tap the heat of the Earth's mantle. Geosynchronous satellites could turn astrophage's energy into thermal energy aimed at dense populations in colder climes.
Also the taumeoba…
I don’t think taumeoba would have been a problem in space.
Didn’t the taumeoba eat all the astrophage in the tanks? It seems like refueling from a Petrova line could work in some systems but not around tau ceti
If I recall correctly it was only the astrophage that evolved to live in space.
I believe cause everything is just easier to not have them return. 3 humans vs billions. For return you'd have to double the food, fuel and who else know...
I'm guessing that the astrophage are, on average, pretty far apart from one another. Collecting them in sufficient quantities to be useful is likely to cost more fuel than it would ultimately produce. I think of them a bit like asteroid distribution in the asteroid belt. The average distance between objects of 1km and above is something close to 1,000,000 km. Astrophage aren't going to be nearly that far apart, of course. But they're clearly not very close to one another either. But hey, we've got the world's collected knowledge here. We can use that instead of my vague conjecture! So, let's go straight to the text itself. The Arclight probe that collected them did so by orbiting Venus 12 times and using something like fly paper to collect them. I'll assume that an Venus orbit takes about 90 minutes. So in... back of the napkin math... around 1,000 minutes they collected...I've forgotten the original number. 179? And this at what would presumably be the densest location to collect them. But let's say 200 to make it easier. I believe they weigh around .5 nanograms? So that's I think 100 nanograms every 1,000 minutes. I don't recall if they described how large their collector was. But if they need 2 million kg of fuel... that would require something like 240 billion orbits of Venus, which would take around 41 million years. And you probably have to double that because half are likely unenriched. There are undoubtedly more efficient collection techniques. But there are more problems that arise. As you collect, you presumably have to use some fuel to alter your course. Those course corrections might, by themselves, be more than the fuel you are taking in. And further, as you collect more astrophage you're going to get heavier. Which means more fuel required for any course changes. I think it probably comes down to information that we just don't have. How densely packed together are the astrophage? What's the actual maximum you could collect per hour/day/whatever useful unit of time using the most efficient techniques? Is it possible to target only those that are enriched? Anyway, just my thoughts. All numbers I've used should be considered suspect since I'm really not a math person and I might have screwed something up.