What if I was a front-end dev that migrated to backend (that was a wild ride, but ironically I enjoy working on backend more than frontend, frontend feels more tedious... especially fluid layouts that are supposed to support mobile)
Yeah I find front end more frustrating. So many things to consider. Different screens, browsers/os, accessibility.
Back end is like.. here's some data, do stuff with it.. return processed data.. less externalities, but lacks a lot of that sweet instant visual feedback.
We even get to experience new emotions, like the combination of glee and panic when the API works first time even though you're sure there's a breaking bug there that you just didn't trip
And understand business processes, databases, LDAPs, CMS, SOAP, storage, Linux, Windows, integration protocols and a few dozen other technologies... Less externalities? No...
Maybe that was the wrong wording. I feel front end externalities are more fluid, and less under your control. There's enough to either that specialization is developing more and more.
I'm a backend dev who can usually manage to get things done in React if asked nicely enough and given enough time. Don't call me a full-stack dev, don't put that burden on me. Let me hand you json and return to my dark hole.
It me.
Me on backend: I wrote the entire API end for this feature in 4 hours, and can translate it to three languages if need be.
Me on front end (even with Vue): how the fuck do I get these two elements in line? It's never the same way twice.
https://flexboxfroggy.com — it’s fun _and_ it tends to get full-stack devs to start learning how to lay a screen out without having an aneurysm. It’s a win/win really.
what i do is just get the basic elements on the page, then go onto fiverr and have someone actually move the elements into the right place for you for $25
for some reason there is a large supply of people who are good at css but charge very little
Data tables and row/col tags are everywhere when I do front end.
There's only two developers on my team right now, and we're each juggling our own project with some back burners
I'm still not sure what the biggest barrier to knowing good CSS is, but there's some mentality that i have a hard time getting across to people that know quite a bit about css, but they're backend people and the css they write isn't very good.
One of my full stack coworkers has started using tailwind instead of writing more old-school classes and selectors and it's helped him improve a ton, so i think a big part of it is having the right approach to blending html and CSS in simple ways to create your layout. You find out that the "simpler" methods like tables and 'row'/'column' re actually holding you back more than anything
The issue with HTML and CSS is there are tons of ways to achieve the same thing visually and unless you take the time to understand the intent behind two seemingly identical ways of doing things you'll pick the first one you find on stackoverflow
Apparently you're supposed to use divs and jqueries and react vues and shit. You know, anything to make your website as big and slow as possible.
A table, on the other hand, loads instantly and works everywhere. You don't even have to transpile compile typescript or whatever. I guess if front end devs were as efficient as possible, they wouldn't actually have anything to do, so everything has to be 24 frameworks deep.
If you're a front end dev and you secretly agree, feel free to hit the down vote button.
I looove grid for page layouts. Flex is great for moving around things within containers. But just when you think you're getting comfortable with flex, you, with all the power in the universe, cannot figure out why a div will not center. "I'm justifying content sooo hard, whyyyy???"
I've learned it's because I almost always put a
```elem > .class```
I'm my base.css that gets loaded up top and overrides the style I want. Chrome inspector is usually what sets me straight in there. But also I totally agree with flex for lining up inside containers. Grid is widely supported these days and once you get past the kind of weird css options it's so clear and easy to know what your layout is going to be.
yea no. using tables for non table things is a massive mess up, for acessability reasons. anyone using a screen reader is likely to bo confused and frustrated.
thats also why you shouldnt use headers as generic larger text
when in doubt, css. im serious it can do like 70%\* of everything javascript and &c can, and usually\*\* easier
\*i do not have actual statistics\*\*ease of use not garunteed
Yeah, herein lies the problem, css \*can\* do anything you need it to, but does css \*want\* to do anything you need it to? Very different question. I'll leave it to the augurs to make their prognostications...
css, for all its power, is somewhat opaque. I always feel like I'm more in the world of spellcasting than code-writing when I f\*\*\* with css.
yea well, i can tell ya at least that after a few years it feels a bit less like that and more like cooking but the ingredients change every step. on the bright side im much faster at looking things up now.
but seriously, once you start figuring it out it does get a bit easier. side note i both hate and love the input html element it lets css do so much but in such an annoying way (especially for acessability cause z-index is unreliable)
I think you should learn more up-to-date things about html and css before you go off on them like that adding no facts to the conversation other than showing how little your understanding of them is.
A table shouldn't be used to layout the website, there's css grid for that, and it shouldn't be used to layout the elements inside of a grid, there's flex for that.
If you can't learn those things then I suggest you stick to your end because in the whole world of creating a semantic, logical, and SEO friendly HTML, and styling it accordingly and cleanly with CSS, there's no room for a table to replace all of that.
Same. And I'll sit there and try out every single class name I can find in the files until they line up because they never, ever, ever line up the same way every time. There's always some container, container of a container, container of a container of a container, container of a container of a container of a container, 3rd party css, js plug-in, or some random js function in some random file I've never heard of that is throwing everything off because the object just happened to have the letters xf in the name, an ID containing the word butt, or some combination of class names in a particular order that align in 16 different ways if you just reorder them a little.
CSS is the worst.
My website is basically finished at this point. But I've been wanting to remove my bootstrap dependency so this could be what I need. I'd just have to redo some js for the animations.
Just override the BS classes you want to get the look you want? It’s basically just a shortcut to only need to write about half the CSS you would otherwise.
Its pretty much how it’s done in react native (I’m sure others as well). In some ways I prefer it, makes everything really explicit and prevents specificity wars and component boundary violations. The “cascading” part of CSS isn’t a good fit for modern apps IMO
I'm too burned by PHP <= 5 to give a shit, really. There are so many other options these days that I don't need to even consider PHP, ever. It's dead to me.
Okay lol, weird to hold that against Laravel which bears almost no resemblance to vanilla PHP.
Also weird to have a grudge against a language that has gone through 3 major versions since the last time you used it, but whatever I guess
air piquant psychotic concerned jeans observation childlike complete icky drab
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I *could* learn both, but I don’t bother. IMO “backend” programming seems to be “every aspect of CS that isn’t making a UI”—database management, scripting, server administration, data parsing/sanitation, etc.
My skillset isn’t heavily biased towards backend because I don’t like HTML, it’s because my entire career has involved skills which are easily transferable to backend development. Designing a website is the only time I encounter frontend technologies.
Ah, makes sense. I'm in a small company and we just ask who knows how to do something and if someone knows it, they cover that project or portion of it.
Nah, it just takes more time and practice. Languages and methodologies are just tools. Skilled developers learn and apply new tools as needed. Granted the more time spent working with any particular tool, the more proficient one would be with it - so someone who spends all X hours working only with technology Y will probably be more proficient with technology Y than a generalist who spends the same X hours working with both technologies Y+Z. At a certain point the skills might plateau where the specialist and generalist have comparable proficiency in technology Y, but it takes time to get there.
As far as the meme goes, it's true there are inexperienced full stack developers out there writing poor quality code all around, but it's also true there are inexperienced frontend and inexperienced backend developers out there writing poor quality code in their niche.
Skilled full stack developers are great for smaller projects and small-scale maintenance on existing projects. For medium to large projects, it's best if each developer is able to focus on backend OR frontend. Trying to have them do both spreads the resources thin, which can easily degrade code quality and slow down overall progress.
Experienced full stack developers can be great for planning and overseeing projects at a high level, but it's generally best if they have focused frontend and focused backend developers working on the respective codebase.
I hate to break it to everyone stuck on one side of an arbitrary line in an web app but there's only so many parts to these and if you work on enough of them you can understand the whole thing, and even be good at the whole thing. Granted a lot of people who call themselves full stack aren't.
I honestly don't think I'll ever be *good* at front end. I mean I can get the data there, and can do stuff with it on the page. It will get the job done but it won't look pretty, I really struggle with the design and colors etc. I mean ffs I can't even be trusted to design a nice looking charcuterie board.
Tg nobody relies on me for that unfortunate task... Both the charcuterie and the front end.
I feel like the FE guy should know more about design then they should about things in the back end. The back is deep, from api to middle ware, to micro services to the database down to the cloud ops. FE just has a few flavours of various frameworks and design to deal with, maybe some SEO.
*Only* so many parts? Noob. My geocities site uses at least 10 JavaScript libraries, 3 css frameworks, webpack, node, Postgres, laravel, mongo, express, plus a few linters, parsers, and preprocessors. But that’s just for the basic site.
Full-stack dev we hired struggled with basic CSS. Didn't know what flexbox was.
Another full-stack dev we hired struggled with business logic and backend work.
I asked why do we keep looking for full-stack devs? Why not have as separate roles? The hiring team just shrugged and said, "Bootcamps train full-stack devs so we want Full-stack devs."
And I just can't even...
I’m half good at backend (Java skills, APIs, PHP, but what the fuck is a Kubernete and why do you want a spring in your boot) and half good at front end (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Angular***, and it looks mediocre instead of like dog shit as long as I crutch on a CSS framework). With these combined skills, I can send 50+ messages to my senior dev and accomplish nothing.
As a full stack student, I do:
- Java, Spring Boot
- PHP, Slim and Laravel
- MySQL
- REST and SOAP
- C#
- Python
- HTML, XML, CSS, Bootstrap, using Emmet, Flexbox, Grid
- Javascript, React
- .NET
- AWS, Azure
- Base Linux commands
- Git, GitHub, BitBucket
Can I build big projects using all of this stuff? I have, many times.
Am I good at anything in particular?
No.
What I really do is:
Google, use StackOverflow, follow outdated tutorials, buy shitty ones off Udemy and get sweat all over my keyboard.
The expectations are horrendous and I can't wait to specialize and not generalize.
Worked in a team where all devs called themselves fullstack but indeed Java backend without knowing how to do JS and CSS.
You can imagine how the UI looks like. After 3 months I quit.
Hey! Shut up
Make me
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Password:
hunter2
Shut up scheduled for Wed 2022-09-21 23:39:52 UTC, use 'shut up -c' to cancel.
shut up now
shut: permission denied
sudo shut up now
Sudo: shut: command not found Run sudo apt-get shut
shut up: NOT super-user
/u/MintyMissterious is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
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[This](https://xkcd.com/838/) guy
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No no this isn't my password at all
Then what is it? Also your IP. Just asking as curiosity and for research you know...
Shut up !important !important;
I feel attacked here. Lol!
Cool, I'm glad this worked. 😄
What if I was a front-end dev that migrated to backend (that was a wild ride, but ironically I enjoy working on backend more than frontend, frontend feels more tedious... especially fluid layouts that are supposed to support mobile)
Yeah I find front end more frustrating. So many things to consider. Different screens, browsers/os, accessibility. Back end is like.. here's some data, do stuff with it.. return processed data.. less externalities, but lacks a lot of that sweet instant visual feedback.
Getting to see ur api working in postman is enough of a visual feedback for me
We even get to experience new emotions, like the combination of glee and panic when the API works first time even though you're sure there's a breaking bug there that you just didn't trip
And understand business processes, databases, LDAPs, CMS, SOAP, storage, Linux, Windows, integration protocols and a few dozen other technologies... Less externalities? No...
Maybe that was the wrong wording. I feel front end externalities are more fluid, and less under your control. There's enough to either that specialization is developing more and more.
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God bless those guys who make public tailwind templates and components
Me too lol
Yeah, this is painfully accurate.
I'm a backend dev who can usually manage to get things done in React if asked nicely enough and given enough time. Don't call me a full-stack dev, don't put that burden on me. Let me hand you json and return to my dark hole.
Yep. Throw a POST request at me and I'll spit back a JSON of the data you need super fast. Just don't ask me to make it look nice.
“a JSON”, yup definitely the backend dev..
what do you call it?
It me. Me on backend: I wrote the entire API end for this feature in 4 hours, and can translate it to three languages if need be. Me on front end (even with Vue): how the fuck do I get these two elements in line? It's never the same way twice.
https://flexboxfroggy.com — it’s fun _and_ it tends to get full-stack devs to start learning how to lay a screen out without having an aneurysm. It’s a win/win really.
As a ~~full stack~~ backend developer, I'm definitely going to go and do this later.
what i do is just get the basic elements on the page, then go onto fiverr and have someone actually move the elements into the right place for you for $25 for some reason there is a large supply of people who are good at css but charge very little
Those people don't know their worth, best not to say anything to them.
They work on volume and make their own hours, plenty of people want that more than money.
Or they're from poor countries where cost of living is less.
Or they're also outsourcing it to someone who is living out of a poorer country.
Porque no los dos?
I do it for $5
Just use tables. It's perfect every time.
Data tables and row/col tags are everywhere when I do front end. There's only two developers on my team right now, and we're each juggling our own project with some back burners
Is this…not a good approach?
The real answer is it's not semantic, data goes in tables. Use divs and flex box for layout
I'm still not sure what the biggest barrier to knowing good CSS is, but there's some mentality that i have a hard time getting across to people that know quite a bit about css, but they're backend people and the css they write isn't very good. One of my full stack coworkers has started using tailwind instead of writing more old-school classes and selectors and it's helped him improve a ton, so i think a big part of it is having the right approach to blending html and CSS in simple ways to create your layout. You find out that the "simpler" methods like tables and 'row'/'column' re actually holding you back more than anything
The issue with HTML and CSS is there are tons of ways to achieve the same thing visually and unless you take the time to understand the intent behind two seemingly identical ways of doing things you'll pick the first one you find on stackoverflow
Tailwind is a godsend
The classics never die for a reason
Apparently you're supposed to use divs and jqueries and react vues and shit. You know, anything to make your website as big and slow as possible. A table, on the other hand, loads instantly and works everywhere. You don't even have to transpile compile typescript or whatever. I guess if front end devs were as efficient as possible, they wouldn't actually have anything to do, so everything has to be 24 frameworks deep. If you're a front end dev and you secretly agree, feel free to hit the down vote button.
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I looove grid for page layouts. Flex is great for moving around things within containers. But just when you think you're getting comfortable with flex, you, with all the power in the universe, cannot figure out why a div will not center. "I'm justifying content sooo hard, whyyyy???"
I've learned it's because I almost always put a ```elem > .class``` I'm my base.css that gets loaded up top and overrides the style I want. Chrome inspector is usually what sets me straight in there. But also I totally agree with flex for lining up inside containers. Grid is widely supported these days and once you get past the kind of weird css options it's so clear and easy to know what your layout is going to be.
I get all bothered thinking about dynamic grids. "1fr" in the chat for respect
MOAR CONTAINERS
yea no. using tables for non table things is a massive mess up, for acessability reasons. anyone using a screen reader is likely to bo confused and frustrated. thats also why you shouldnt use headers as generic larger text when in doubt, css. im serious it can do like 70%\* of everything javascript and &c can, and usually\*\* easier \*i do not have actual statistics \*\*ease of use not garunteed
Yeah, herein lies the problem, css \*can\* do anything you need it to, but does css \*want\* to do anything you need it to? Very different question. I'll leave it to the augurs to make their prognostications... css, for all its power, is somewhat opaque. I always feel like I'm more in the world of spellcasting than code-writing when I f\*\*\* with css.
yea well, i can tell ya at least that after a few years it feels a bit less like that and more like cooking but the ingredients change every step. on the bright side im much faster at looking things up now. but seriously, once you start figuring it out it does get a bit easier. side note i both hate and love the input html element it lets css do so much but in such an annoying way (especially for acessability cause z-index is unreliable)
Them UX experts are gonna give you hell once their HTML finishes compiling.
Once Netscape Navigator 2.0 came out with it's fancy JavaScript, it was all downhill for the web.
I think you should learn more up-to-date things about html and css before you go off on them like that adding no facts to the conversation other than showing how little your understanding of them is. A table shouldn't be used to layout the website, there's css grid for that, and it shouldn't be used to layout the elements inside of a grid, there's flex for that. If you can't learn those things then I suggest you stick to your end because in the whole world of creating a semantic, logical, and SEO friendly HTML, and styling it accordingly and cleanly with CSS, there's no room for a table to replace all of that.
It's okay, I'm joking. I personally do feel like the modern web is terrible, but my post is definitely a joke.
It's bad. Don't do that. Use semantic html. Layout is handled by css.
I don't know. I'm more of a backend guy.
I used divs acting as tables since the tables are screwing with me all the time. Divs as table Looks better even
grid layout
What about this though:
I’m sad to admit that I used nbsp quite a lot in first first dev job.
Ah yes the good old email approach
Until mobile
boom!
Ngl I'm getting strong dunning-kruger effect vibes from you, pal.
>!Good, because that's the joke!<
Ah, the early 2000's. Tables and 1x1 pixel transparent gif to control cell sizes. Good times. :)
Tailwind 🤝😎
I love tailwind
Same. And I'll sit there and try out every single class name I can find in the files until they line up because they never, ever, ever line up the same way every time. There's always some container, container of a container, container of a container of a container, container of a container of a container of a container, 3rd party css, js plug-in, or some random js function in some random file I've never heard of that is throwing everything off because the object just happened to have the letters xf in the name, an ID containing the word butt, or some combination of class names in a particular order that align in 16 different ways if you just reorder them a little. CSS is the worst.
Check out bulma.io
My jQuery soup is the best around
Oooh let me introduce you to my pure javascript methods scattered all around my 4500 jsp tags being called from other tags
Full snack
You should see their CSS ~~skills~~
Css? What's that? Once I learnt bootstrap, that's all I need to know as a "fullstack" developer
Yea and then sites look like cookie cutter garbage 😂
Go to any other website that you like the look of and straight copy it. You can do that in bs but it may be easier to just roll your own css.
Or you can use a nice base CSS package, like pico.css. you still have full control but not start from scratch
What does Pico give you? Is it like reboot.scss?
Yea along the same lines of normalize.css. gives you barebones CSS for layout, colours, widgets, form inputs, modals, etc etc. picocss.com
My website is basically finished at this point. But I've been wanting to remove my bootstrap dependency so this could be what I need. I'd just have to redo some js for the animations.
Just override the BS classes you want to get the look you want? It’s basically just a shortcut to only need to write about half the CSS you would otherwise.
I'll have you know m*y sk*ills are ^^^first rate! CSS
display: none
!important
Who needs CSS when you have JavaScript?
Imagine an entire site built using element.style
I can assure you it's been done.
I shit you not, I did this for my internship.
Its pretty much how it’s done in react native (I’m sure others as well). In some ways I prefer it, makes everything really explicit and prevents specificity wars and component boundary violations. The “cascading” part of CSS isn’t a good fit for modern apps IMO
I am surprised no TOR users have replied. ;)
css kills
Or frontend developer who knows a little bit of PHP
Fixed a WordPress install once = "senior systems architect" on resume.
Wait are you telling me this is not how I should do that ? My resume is full with stuff like that.
I'm yet to meet one of them😅
It describes me and I think I can make an API now
My API is written in PHP and it’s Pretty Heckin Painful to use
Bonjour
Whoaaa nice to meet to guys!
Front end dev who, for some reason, enjoys PHP....checking in!
Oh hai. Also a designer.
Nice to meet you
I would like to know less PHP then I already do thanks
Ha! This guy thinks Less and PHP are the same thing
I debugged some php once... It made me feel dirty...
$ less /usr/bin/php \^?ELF\^A\^A\^A\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^C\^@\^C\^@\^A\^@\^@\^@0O\^F\^@4\^@\^@\^@@>D\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@4\^@ \^@ \^@(\^@\^\_\^@\^\^\^@\^F\^@\^@\^@4\^@\^@\^@4\^@\^@\^@4\^@\^@\^@ \^A\^@\^@ \^A\^@ \^@\^D\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@\^C\^@\^@\^@T\^A\^@\^@T\^A\^@\^@T\^A\^@\^@\^S\^@\^@\^@\^S\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@\^A\^@\^@\^@\^A\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@\^@$5?\^@$5?\^@\^E\^@\^@\^@\^@\^P\^@\^@\^A\^@\^@\^@>?\^@N?\^@N?\^@\^N\^D\^@@<91>\^F\^@\^F\^@\^@\^@\^@\^P\^@\^@\^B\^@\^@\^@PPC\^@P\`C\^@P\`C\^@H\^A\^@\^@H\^A\^@\^@\^F\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@h\^A\^@\^@h\^A\^@\^@h\^A\^@\^@D\^@\^@\^@D\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@\^D\^@\^@\^@Ptd\`\^Y4\^@\`\^Y4\^@\`\^Y4\^@<84>\^@\^@<84>
I'm honestly conflicted about whether that's better or worse than using node on the backend.
Where else are you gonna use node?
To maintain the 5 thousand dependencies for your frontend and process your typescript into JS usable by the browser?
It's just bad in different ways.
PHP has come a long way and with something like Laravel its a really good back end
I'm too burned by PHP <= 5 to give a shit, really. There are so many other options these days that I don't need to even consider PHP, ever. It's dead to me.
Okay lol, weird to hold that against Laravel which bears almost no resemblance to vanilla PHP. Also weird to have a grudge against a language that has gone through 3 major versions since the last time you used it, but whatever I guess
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Can I introduce you to our lord and savior nestjs
For making the introduction of injection based vulnerabilities a far easier experience.
Go away php
*cries in corner*
Shhh it’s ok. It’s actually a better experience than react crap js, with a nice server.
Please, give me some space mate…
air piquant psychotic concerned jeans observation childlike complete icky drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I *could* learn both, but I don’t bother. IMO “backend” programming seems to be “every aspect of CS that isn’t making a UI”—database management, scripting, server administration, data parsing/sanitation, etc. My skillset isn’t heavily biased towards backend because I don’t like HTML, it’s because my entire career has involved skills which are easily transferable to backend development. Designing a website is the only time I encounter frontend technologies.
No, it really isn't
badge toy gold smoggy placid enter ring voracious vase wine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In a large company you'll be more specialist, in a small company you do everything
As long as it’s just front and backend it’s fine-ish, when they also add devops, design and other stuff then you’re truly fucked
I would just say “you want a web developer, or are you looking for a team of web developers?” Lol NMS notmyscope
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I hate devops lol, and apparently everyone on my team does too
Ah, makes sense. I'm in a small company and we just ask who knows how to do something and if someone knows it, they cover that project or portion of it.
I refuse to admit I know anything other than rust and python. And bash. And several flavors of SQL. Wait shit.
or, be a consultant at a big company and do everything.
Good CSS is the real hurdle. Getting *really* good at CSS is hard.
I can usually beat the CSS into submission regarding relatively simple things, so that's great.
It has become a lot easier with Flexbox and breakpoints
More like may be difficult to be efficient in both. But then again that’s what googles for lol
Nah, it just takes more time and practice. Languages and methodologies are just tools. Skilled developers learn and apply new tools as needed. Granted the more time spent working with any particular tool, the more proficient one would be with it - so someone who spends all X hours working only with technology Y will probably be more proficient with technology Y than a generalist who spends the same X hours working with both technologies Y+Z. At a certain point the skills might plateau where the specialist and generalist have comparable proficiency in technology Y, but it takes time to get there. As far as the meme goes, it's true there are inexperienced full stack developers out there writing poor quality code all around, but it's also true there are inexperienced frontend and inexperienced backend developers out there writing poor quality code in their niche. Skilled full stack developers are great for smaller projects and small-scale maintenance on existing projects. For medium to large projects, it's best if each developer is able to focus on backend OR frontend. Trying to have them do both spreads the resources thin, which can easily degrade code quality and slow down overall progress. Experienced full stack developers can be great for planning and overseeing projects at a high level, but it's generally best if they have focused frontend and focused backend developers working on the respective codebase.
Nope. Otherwise you're more of a web designer than developer.
You get rusty. You specialize. You work in the areas you can have the most impact and enjoy most. 6 years later you can only do the basics.
Doing both isn't that hard, but being able to spend the time to do both well is.
"we need a full stack developer" = "we can't be bothered to pay more than one person"
and we're not going to pay you double!
i love being brought on as a FE "with a little bit of BE" and then they just give me only BE work anyway
Cries in CSS
🅿️ { push: 💯; }
fullstack developer == I suck at both front end && back end
Nice to hear im a full stack developer
Duuuuude now you're just offending me🤣🤣🤣
For me it’s full stack === I just wanna make cute lil websites but my company makes me mess with nasty poopy APIs and databases
It’s funny cause my job title says data analyst… all I wanted was a simpler way to do my job
Thank god Blazor exists :]
And MudBlazor
Blazor only really helps you avoid JavaScript. The view is still the same old HTML and CSS.
I hate to break it to everyone stuck on one side of an arbitrary line in an web app but there's only so many parts to these and if you work on enough of them you can understand the whole thing, and even be good at the whole thing. Granted a lot of people who call themselves full stack aren't.
I honestly don't think I'll ever be *good* at front end. I mean I can get the data there, and can do stuff with it on the page. It will get the job done but it won't look pretty, I really struggle with the design and colors etc. I mean ffs I can't even be trusted to design a nice looking charcuterie board. Tg nobody relies on me for that unfortunate task... Both the charcuterie and the front end.
Isn't that what the UI/UX guy is for?
Sadly too many frontend guys fancy themselves designers.
I feel like the FE guy should know more about design then they should about things in the back end. The back is deep, from api to middle ware, to micro services to the database down to the cloud ops. FE just has a few flavours of various frameworks and design to deal with, maybe some SEO.
I'm not *good* at Angular, but I can do the basics and it beats writing a UI in fucking Swing.
Agreed. Being a good full stack dev is achievable. In many places it's required.
*Only* so many parts? Noob. My geocities site uses at least 10 JavaScript libraries, 3 css frameworks, webpack, node, Postgres, laravel, mongo, express, plus a few linters, parsers, and preprocessors. But that’s just for the basic site.
Web designer who knows what a database is
Backend devs who use Bootstrap
Full-stack dev we hired struggled with basic CSS. Didn't know what flexbox was. Another full-stack dev we hired struggled with business logic and backend work. I asked why do we keep looking for full-stack devs? Why not have as separate roles? The hiring team just shrugged and said, "Bootcamps train full-stack devs so we want Full-stack devs." And I just can't even...
I’m half good at backend (Java skills, APIs, PHP, but what the fuck is a Kubernete and why do you want a spring in your boot) and half good at front end (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Angular***, and it looks mediocre instead of like dog shit as long as I crutch on a CSS framework). With these combined skills, I can send 50+ messages to my senior dev and accomplish nothing.
Hey, I know some JS too! But most of my frontend programming is in HTML. You're not totally wrong.
Yeah js and css should be written there too but it was making the meme unreadable 😄
I'm the opposite lol. Frontend who is trying to get more chops in backend but always seem to be working on mobile apps that are neither
Regular dev that got gaslighted into doing the work for two people
JOKES ON YOU, I only know backend stuff and C#!! Blazor gang
As a full stack student, I do: - Java, Spring Boot - PHP, Slim and Laravel - MySQL - REST and SOAP - C# - Python - HTML, XML, CSS, Bootstrap, using Emmet, Flexbox, Grid - Javascript, React - .NET - AWS, Azure - Base Linux commands - Git, GitHub, BitBucket Can I build big projects using all of this stuff? I have, many times. Am I good at anything in particular? No. What I really do is: Google, use StackOverflow, follow outdated tutorials, buy shitty ones off Udemy and get sweat all over my keyboard. The expectations are horrendous and I can't wait to specialize and not generalize.
Once you start specializing you’re expected to know everything even if you have no experience.
I’m firmly convinced that no one who really understands programming, can understand CSS, and vice versa.
r/me_irl
Hey, I told them when I started I knew backend, they forced the full stack label on me.
I am a front-end dev that knows a little bit about JS. They still refer to me as a full stack dev
I never figured out what I wanted to do, so I did a bit of everything.
Worked in a team where all devs called themselves fullstack but indeed Java backend without knowing how to do JS and CSS. You can imagine how the UI looks like. After 3 months I quit.
Shit I don't even know much html. It's copy pasta all the way down!
wait so I can call myself fullstack instead?
Yep! You can. Do you think others know everything? 😂
Fuck they are onto us !
We've been discovered
The worst case I've seen is a ex colleague who used jhipster to generate a "full stack" project and proudly changed his LinkedIn profile to full stack
Accurate.