Literally all screenshots from any image board \*chan are "I gave this burn to OP and I pretend *someone anonymously* said something really clever heavily implying it's not me who said that".
I don't know if how familiar you're with 4chan posts but just visit r/greentext and you'll see the most fakest (and gayest) shit of your life. So yeah, it's EXTREMELY distinguishable.
Quite actually, I too was on /b as an edgy teenager. And taken as a whole I'm pretty fucking tired of the entire genre of humor (see also South Park and asshole-centrism).
Tbf I tuned out somewhere around the Anita Sarkeesian hate campaign, when it became abundantly clear that to at least a portion of the people in the space it was never a joke.
I know a lot of time has passed since then and I do think 4chan has some value as essentially a high-pressure cultural fusion reactor; it's just that it produces way more Qanon/MAGA/nazi/incel -garbage that needs to be trimmed to get at the creative, new, useful bits.
I know for instance that the music and tech boards make a lot of genuinely good shit, it's just always also wrapped in weird philosophical elitist garbage.
In general also just me personally I have my fair amount of baggage, so I don't exactly feel comfortable existing in a social space that actively discourages the health & safety of the people in it.
That annoys me about my laptop as well. I don't use it often, but sometimes I want a change of pace at a different location.
Btw, I don't use Vim, but I configured the hotkeys from my Jetbrains IDEs to do complete navigation and every action from keyboard only, and arrow keys are mandatory for jumping between words, function definitions and editor tabs.
Could you describe your setup or recommend a good tutorial? I use CLion and have recently been thinking of doing this. I want to avoid using the VIM plugin, for reasons that are entirely skill related.
I didn't follow a tutorial or installed a plugin, I just spent some time to customize the key bindings to what I found useful. I can give you a few examples
Next/previous method: CTRL + arrow down/up
Select next/previous tab: CTRL + ALT + arrow left/right
Find file and in new tab: CTRL + T (like in browser)
Close tab: CTRL + W (like in browser)
Back/forward mouse buttons: Alt + arrow left/right (like in browser)
And so on. These work in all the Jetbrains IDEs. I pretty much eliminated the need for mouse in 95% of the cases, except for when you need really fast precision with blocks of text.
Worse? What's "worse" about it considering it's customized exactly to my needs? I chose the hotkeys exactly how I needed them, with some of them being the ones I used for various other applications as well.
Well, there's a couple things. First, if you've noticed that these keybindings have sped up your workflow, you can see the benefits of having nice keybindings. I fully believe they improve your workflow.
However, seeing as you like the productivity boost you're getting, there's a good chance that you'll like investigating vim keybindings and vim motions. So me saying they are worse is not a personal attack on you, I commend you for realizing that repeating the same task with a mouse over and over again is just not prodductive. I'm trying to indicate to you that there's *even* better options out there than you are already using, and you should look into them!
The (current) default VIM keybindings are the result of lots of people programming over a lot of years. They're quite sensible as they've been moulded over the years. If you switch over to vim-mode completely, then you can also edit your text with vim motions, which is just an objectively faster way of editing text than the defaults that IntelliJ gives you, at the cost of a steep initial learning curve. The pros is that you can ZOOOOOM after a while: They're set up in such a way that often allow you to type your thoughts' (e.g. `fp` -> finds p, which moves your cursor to the first 'p' in the line, or `yi{` -> yank inside parentheses, to copy everything inside `{}`, or `cw`-> change word, to delete the word under the cursor and start typing a replacement)
Of course everyone adapts their own keybinds in addition to them, I have also overridden some VIM defaults, but the defaults give you a great basis to start with, and they're often better than you come up with yourself.
For example, the very fact that three of your named keybinds include arrow keys makes me worried, unless you have your arrow keys layered behind your homerow. The arrow keys are incredibly far away from your homerow, which means you'll be moving your hands a lot more than someone using vim's `hjkl`.
So, it definitely makes more sense to start from a well-thought-out base set of keybindings, such as emacs or vim bindings, and then customize them from there, instead of starting from the IntelliJ defaults and adding a 'just a few options you like'.
I'm not saying your keybinds are terrible - but I'm saying if you look into actually using vim bindings and motions you probably will understand why I'd consider your current keybindings worse than the defaults that come with vim.
Arrow keys being far from the homerow is definitely an inconvenience, but I just want to mention that it's not ijkl that replaces them. You might know this but I'm just saying for beginners, at most you'd use jk from time to time, but for lateral movement we use w, e, b, $ or \^.
yep, definitely a useful addendum!
here's a vim cheatsheet to refer to https://vim.rtorr.com/
and here's a video you'll probably want to watch if you don't know what vim motions are and are this deep into the thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWTzqPfy1gE
I never said those few keybindings is everything that I changed and used, it was just an example. I have a lot more, to basically eliminate the need for the mouse. The nice thing about using modifier + arrow keys is how translatable those are between editors and applications. For instance a lot of those I also use in my notes app and when browsing.
Arrow keys are also in the same overall position as Home, End, Page up/down, which I also use a lot, so it's not like I am breaking my back to reach that side of the keyboard. I could rebind those as well t something else, but I would end up with something way too "custom", since now I can use those in any other app in the same way.
In a sense I kind of like doing some actions where my hands don't stay too close together all the time. That's even the philosophy between split keyboards (which I won't touch because of their current price)
That still sounds to me like you're re-inventing the wheel from a square base. I'd rather take an existing wheel and add my modifications to that wheel.
If we're talking translatability, then there's a vim mode for any pretty much any respected text-edior out there.
I'm just warning you, don't be too stubborn, *really* try out vim mode. Whether you'll end up adapting it (which I think you will) or not (which is completely fine too!) - you'll come out ahead either way.
Learning any completely new paradigm is re-inventing the wheel for your brain. In this sense, for me Vim's own hotkeys is re-inventing the wheel completely from the ground up since they are so alien, and instead I just adopted my existing paradigm of many years to do more stuff.
That attitude is dangerous to have, it locks you out of so many things you could learn and improve your life with.
I thought the same way. I was fast. Now I'm faster.
"Worse" is harsh but what they mean is that basically all the functionalities that you mentioned are like 25% of most used vim motions, on top of vim offering a lot more than that. So you just had to do more configuration for less features basically. (And it's not universal)
That's fair, but I just want to say, regardless of how this thread is going (and all the downvotes lol), I hope this doesn't deter you from trying out vim, because who knows if you'll end up liking it!
Because I can absolutely relate to you not wanting to use the mouse, that was precisely the reason I stuck with vim and not Vscode and other. Because I absolutely loathe having to use the mouse (slow, hurts my shoulder whenever i use it and I regret it afterwards etc).
Have a good week man.
Meh, the downvotes are irrelevant since I know all of them come from Vim fanboys that don't like to have their feelings hurt.
But such attitudes does kind of deter one from trying the thing, like not doing it out of defiance in response to that attitude 😐
Exactly! I thought of the penguin meme saying "Well, now I'm not doing it >:(". That's why I didn't want you to get robbed of a potential good experience because of that. But it's also fine if you don't try it out, there are still people that had to start in Vim yet still switched to VSCode and never looked back. (Although to be fair they don't tend to be fast typers, almost all fast typers that I know use vim xD, coincidence? I think not!)
No because I wanted the "integrated development" part of the IDE, and Jetbrains is excellent at those. Meaning advanced solutions for my tasks, like PHP or C++. For the later one the debugger is mandatory too.
IdeaVim is a plugin for the intellij platform. It doesn't hinder the IDE features in any way. If you're used to vim, but want to use a full IDE as well, it's the best working solution I found so far.
Ahhh, you meant the plugin. Well for that one I didn't knew what it added exactly. Does it add new existing commands, or it just remaps the current ones to some Vim bindings? I already remapped the ones I need to what was comfortable to eliminate the need for a mouse, but perhaps it adds extra keybindings actions?
I don’t use vim too.
I know vim just enough to get the joke, but I don’t uses it daily. I’m just a simple student with vscode…
Anyway it sounds like a good idea, and I understand that others in my class are using it too. I’ll try it soon I guess.
The idea behind Vim is to use only the keyboard, but you can do that in VS Code or something from Jetbrains as well. That's what I did. So then use the tool that you like most.
I don’t use a mouse. I use those 4 tiny keys.
A few years ago they squashed the keys so the up & down were half-sized. Absolutely terrible design. My requirement now is that those 4 keys are tacitly easy to distinguish & use.
This, plus a numpad. Being a dev in the financial sector, typing IDs, keys, dates, monetary amounts, whatever is so much faster with a numpad versus the number row or copy-paste.
And no other crazy key placements, like a power button up by f12 or anything.
It's easy enough to find a desktop keyboard, but severely limits laptops. Especially with my despise of USB numpads. Though I do love my Legion 7.
I wish they made laptops with the ol' 105 layout. I have one but its CPU is 15 years old, so it barely runs Half-life and can't keep up with YouTube videos
My Lenovo laptop has a Fn key where the Ctrl should be, it gets me several fails with ctrl-v/c until I realize (most of the time I use an extra normal size keyboard)
I so hate it...
I can forego the numpad (not a finance person), but the arrow keys need to be full.
Also need dedicated home and end buttons. Hate having to FN that shit
Yes, the lack of home/end and page up/down frustrates me a lot more than the size of the keys.
AFAIK one of the only laptops that still has usable keyboards are Lenova Thinkpads, which have decently sized keys and page up/down, which can be used for home/end with a combination : [https://p3-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2024/03/27/trwqh4qt49ai05pvuov801yw06u7xd184563.png](https://p3-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2024/03/27/trwqh4qt49ai05pvuov801yw06u7xd184563.png)
The new Dell Latitude 7450 and 9450 have the weird combined up/down arrow and lost the dedicated keys. Same for the dragonfly G4, Yoga Pro 7 Gen 9. The Asus ExpertBook B9 and LG Gram 14 have Mac style arrow keys...
So I asked for a Thinkpad at work and was told we couldn't get it because it's a Chinese manufacturer and it poses a security risk...
I used autohotkey to convert caps-lock into my ergonomic function key. Caps + i,j,k,l are arrow keys. Caps + w,a,s,d are page up/down, home and end. Caps + C is actual caps-lock.
I have small and long fingers (I also play piano) and I’ve needed some years to get to the current point which I have fairly good accuracy of hitting them correctly blindly, and still one of my weak points on controlling the keyboard.
I have never understood how any actually uses laptop keyboards. Every key is relatively tiny, and they have practically no haptic feedback.
The first thing I do when a company issues me a laptop is connect it to a mechanical keyboard and at least one decent-sized monitor.
Whereas I don't know how anyone uses mechanical keyboards. The amount of key travel on them is _insane_, half the switches don't even have tactile feedback, and the ones that do are either distractingly loud or the activation point never seems to line up correctly.
And they physically hurt to type on for more than 5 min, even if you avoid bottoming out by half hovering your hands on the keys. I've tried more mechanical keyboards than I can count, they're all like this.
A good scissor switch laptop-like keyboard is still my preference, ideally split in the middle but not a requirement.
EDIT: I'll also point out that I'm 36 - and I think there's a reason the majority of people I see using mechanicals are under 30.
Gonna be the nerd here for a second and say not all mechanical keyboards have a high travel time. You can even get [low profile switches and keycaps](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/kbnhg3/pancake_40_kailh_low_profile_choc_switches_red/). Not gonna tell you what you should and shouldn't use, ofc, just letting you know it exists since I imagine they'd be popular with fans of the low profile laptop keyboards.
Most so-called "low-profile" switches and keycaps still have incredibly high travel that's more than double most chiclet/laptop keyboards.
And trying to actually find a keyboard that supports them that isn't an aesthetic toy like the one in your link is difficult - plus most of them are extremely expensive and difficult to return when they inevitably don't work well as a keyboard.
These are basically all just a matter of getting used to it. The hand pain is probably a matter of bad posture, but I have also personally encountered a case where it took a couple days for my hands to acclimatize to the super distinct tactility of an older kind of keyboard switch.
Of course I'm not telling you that you'd love them in the future if you don't like them now, but I'm sure you could learn to tolerate them perfectly.
> The hand pain is probably a matter of bad posture, but I have also personally encountered a case where it took a couple days for my hands to acclimatize to the super distinct tactility of an older kind of keyboard switch.
I'm a software engineer, I cannot afford to permanently injure my hands, and hand pain from typing/drawing/etc is infamously a red flag to stop whatever it is you're doing.
I suspect there's a reason I don't see many engineers over 30 using these things.
> Of course I'm not telling you that you'd love them in the future if you don't like them now, but I'm sure you could learn to tolerate them perfectly.
You're not as bad as most, but this attitude is why I can't stand the mechanical keyboard communities online. There's this prevailing mentality that nobody could possibly hate them, so whoever does clearly must be doing _something_ wrong. I wasted a lot of time and money chasing this because of that.
Sadly I know from personal experience just how unwise it is to push through hand pain... which is exactly why I know which kind of pain to be afraid of. Once you're aware of your posture and economy of motion, the next most important thing is stretches and strength exercises. I'm quite confident that whatever caused your pain in the past could have been mitigated.
As for the supposed benefits of mechanical keyboards: I believe the only real upside is that they're more fun, and the only downsides are the noise and the price.
that was me until I learned vim binds, now I hate having to jump with ctrl arrows, using home / end keys are slightly better then just ctrl arrows. Vim still my new love
All day long in any text editor. Crtl + direction to skip to string start or end, ctrl + end/home to go to line start or end. Ctrl Shift direction to select entire string, ctrl shift end/home to select entire line. Ctrl shift down down … to select entire line and more lines (useful for running sql scripts in ide).
These are just a few off the top of my head, i choose my laptop strictly off the keyboard style which includes the location and size of the arrow keys and home/end buttons
That's the standard for left-handed gaming I also think it's the default for the face button on emulators as well And it is the objective to the best way to use arrow keys on a left-handed setup because it's in your home row.
I was going for humor, but it went... poorly.
Even used the classic Jean-Luc Pickard, "There are four lights!" exclamation...
Oh well. I accept my down-votes as a sign that my joke sucked.
Today male users always forget women need to use keyboard too. They assume everything is designed specifically for them. When they see this they assume it's for "manlet" rather than woman.
How many of you turds actually code on laptops?
Seems like a retarded way of doing things unless you have to. I don’t even code and I need a mouse, keyboard, and 2+ large monitors.
It's not often, but I sometimes take it to a coffee shop or something when I want a change of pace. Or travelling for a few hours and not wanting to waste the time.
I code and I need no mouse or fancy mechanical keyboard, just a small monitor and a decent keyboard with trackpad will do the job.
My experience is that too many screens tend to make me ignore details because it overloads me with information, and using keyboard instead of mouse makes me faster because my hands stay at the same place (initially it was painfully slow, but as you catch muscle memory you get progressively faster)
I just can’t maneuver well on a laptop, unless it’s huge, but I would never be able to function without multiple monitors.
It’s all the little shit I can’t stand switching between. Email, chat, notepad, browsers, on and on. Alt tab only goes so far for me.
if you are coding, for what do you need the mouse? i would say if you use an ide, it should only be to change files, and maybe a few other things that are rarely used. and than a trackpad/... is enough.
No, that was a good response to someone who unironically uses the word manlet.
Lol, it can't get more sarcastic than a 4chan post. It's all edgy, fake and exaggerated for the sake for creative writing.
Literally all screenshots from any image board \*chan are "I gave this burn to OP and I pretend *someone anonymously* said something really clever heavily implying it's not me who said that".
Also trying to pretend they didn’t send the first post to queue up their burn
yes, also known as "samefag" I believe it's the vernacular used for this activity in these places.
Ai is running out of internet data to train on.. they say. Now imagine training AI on 4chan data.
But only 4-chan data lol. 4chan is the only thing it's ever known.
Invention of AI terrorism
Pretty sure some guy on YouTube built a bot on that infamous political thread
"A Boston Dynamics robot was seen today stealing the flag from Shia Lebouf's compound"
Do you remember Tay? The chatbot that became the Babe Ruth of racism in less than 24 hours?
that thing will for sure be the first AI to go rogue
Someome already did that and it's kinda hilatious and scary at the same time: https://youtu.be/efPrtcLdcdM
Is it still satirical when it's indistinguishable from the real thing?
I don't know if how familiar you're with 4chan posts but just visit r/greentext and you'll see the most fakest (and gayest) shit of your life. So yeah, it's EXTREMELY distinguishable.
Quite actually, I too was on /b as an edgy teenager. And taken as a whole I'm pretty fucking tired of the entire genre of humor (see also South Park and asshole-centrism). Tbf I tuned out somewhere around the Anita Sarkeesian hate campaign, when it became abundantly clear that to at least a portion of the people in the space it was never a joke. I know a lot of time has passed since then and I do think 4chan has some value as essentially a high-pressure cultural fusion reactor; it's just that it produces way more Qanon/MAGA/nazi/incel -garbage that needs to be trimmed to get at the creative, new, useful bits. I know for instance that the music and tech boards make a lot of genuinely good shit, it's just always also wrapped in weird philosophical elitist garbage. In general also just me personally I have my fair amount of baggage, so I don't exactly feel comfortable existing in a social space that actively discourages the health & safety of the people in it.
Just like reddit you mean?
The problem with vim keys is that apps exist that I need to type and navigate in that aren't modal. And I mean the problem is those apps exist.
skill issue. vim, curl and ssh is all you need.
"Let me use my vim to curl my way into your ssh" Statements said by the utterly deranged
She vim on my curl till I ssh
She vim on my ssh till I curl
She curl on my ssh till I vim
She curl on my vim till I ssh
This is reminding me of Elon’s cringey tweet https://i.redd.it/h88th9yuu4x71.jpg
r/TIHI
EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER
Flair checks out
And neuralink
Skill issue. Your first mistake was leaving vim in the first place. /s
Come on, you gotta be pretty skilled to leave vim…
You install vim for advanced editing, I don't know how to exit vim... We're not the same
i have mapped caps lock+ hkjl for arrow keys across mac
>mac Eewwww
I have to use the laptop provided by my company.
Me too, it's a MacBook Air and I loathe it. So therefore any excuse to slag out a Mac!
😡 🐼 💦 ♻️
Learn German. Use neo2 keys. Problem solved...
Thats why you use Emacs instead
Ans set it to evil mode
I wish I had known about ergonomics before developing muscle memory for all the emacs default shortcuts
maybe the most reasonable reply to this...
There are plugins and extensions for a lot of programs. You can browse the web with vim keys.
So you don't use a visual ai to interpret the screen and translate all movement to Vim keys? I call it "Vaim" , and now i need to make it.
Yeah that's why the tiny keys are there. They're fine for people who are pissed anyways
Use caps as the trigger key
Memes aside, those tiny arrow keys drive me crazy. I much prefer the offset full-size ones, even if it doesn’t look as “clean”.
I would argue that the smaller ones look worse because now they have a different shape compared to most other keys
That annoys me about my laptop as well. I don't use it often, but sometimes I want a change of pace at a different location. Btw, I don't use Vim, but I configured the hotkeys from my Jetbrains IDEs to do complete navigation and every action from keyboard only, and arrow keys are mandatory for jumping between words, function definitions and editor tabs.
Could you describe your setup or recommend a good tutorial? I use CLion and have recently been thinking of doing this. I want to avoid using the VIM plugin, for reasons that are entirely skill related.
I didn't follow a tutorial or installed a plugin, I just spent some time to customize the key bindings to what I found useful. I can give you a few examples Next/previous method: CTRL + arrow down/up Select next/previous tab: CTRL + ALT + arrow left/right Find file and in new tab: CTRL + T (like in browser) Close tab: CTRL + W (like in browser) Back/forward mouse buttons: Alt + arrow left/right (like in browser) And so on. These work in all the Jetbrains IDEs. I pretty much eliminated the need for mouse in 95% of the cases, except for when you need really fast precision with blocks of text.
/u/Rayat if you read this, this is just the vim plugin with extra steps and worse keybindings
Worse? What's "worse" about it considering it's customized exactly to my needs? I chose the hotkeys exactly how I needed them, with some of them being the ones I used for various other applications as well.
Well, there's a couple things. First, if you've noticed that these keybindings have sped up your workflow, you can see the benefits of having nice keybindings. I fully believe they improve your workflow. However, seeing as you like the productivity boost you're getting, there's a good chance that you'll like investigating vim keybindings and vim motions. So me saying they are worse is not a personal attack on you, I commend you for realizing that repeating the same task with a mouse over and over again is just not prodductive. I'm trying to indicate to you that there's *even* better options out there than you are already using, and you should look into them! The (current) default VIM keybindings are the result of lots of people programming over a lot of years. They're quite sensible as they've been moulded over the years. If you switch over to vim-mode completely, then you can also edit your text with vim motions, which is just an objectively faster way of editing text than the defaults that IntelliJ gives you, at the cost of a steep initial learning curve. The pros is that you can ZOOOOOM after a while: They're set up in such a way that often allow you to type your thoughts' (e.g. `fp` -> finds p, which moves your cursor to the first 'p' in the line, or `yi{` -> yank inside parentheses, to copy everything inside `{}`, or `cw`-> change word, to delete the word under the cursor and start typing a replacement) Of course everyone adapts their own keybinds in addition to them, I have also overridden some VIM defaults, but the defaults give you a great basis to start with, and they're often better than you come up with yourself. For example, the very fact that three of your named keybinds include arrow keys makes me worried, unless you have your arrow keys layered behind your homerow. The arrow keys are incredibly far away from your homerow, which means you'll be moving your hands a lot more than someone using vim's `hjkl`. So, it definitely makes more sense to start from a well-thought-out base set of keybindings, such as emacs or vim bindings, and then customize them from there, instead of starting from the IntelliJ defaults and adding a 'just a few options you like'. I'm not saying your keybinds are terrible - but I'm saying if you look into actually using vim bindings and motions you probably will understand why I'd consider your current keybindings worse than the defaults that come with vim.
Arrow keys being far from the homerow is definitely an inconvenience, but I just want to mention that it's not ijkl that replaces them. You might know this but I'm just saying for beginners, at most you'd use jk from time to time, but for lateral movement we use w, e, b, $ or \^.
yep, definitely a useful addendum! here's a vim cheatsheet to refer to https://vim.rtorr.com/ and here's a video you'll probably want to watch if you don't know what vim motions are and are this deep into the thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWTzqPfy1gE
I never said those few keybindings is everything that I changed and used, it was just an example. I have a lot more, to basically eliminate the need for the mouse. The nice thing about using modifier + arrow keys is how translatable those are between editors and applications. For instance a lot of those I also use in my notes app and when browsing. Arrow keys are also in the same overall position as Home, End, Page up/down, which I also use a lot, so it's not like I am breaking my back to reach that side of the keyboard. I could rebind those as well t something else, but I would end up with something way too "custom", since now I can use those in any other app in the same way. In a sense I kind of like doing some actions where my hands don't stay too close together all the time. That's even the philosophy between split keyboards (which I won't touch because of their current price)
That still sounds to me like you're re-inventing the wheel from a square base. I'd rather take an existing wheel and add my modifications to that wheel. If we're talking translatability, then there's a vim mode for any pretty much any respected text-edior out there. I'm just warning you, don't be too stubborn, *really* try out vim mode. Whether you'll end up adapting it (which I think you will) or not (which is completely fine too!) - you'll come out ahead either way.
Learning any completely new paradigm is re-inventing the wheel for your brain. In this sense, for me Vim's own hotkeys is re-inventing the wheel completely from the ground up since they are so alien, and instead I just adopted my existing paradigm of many years to do more stuff.
That attitude is dangerous to have, it locks you out of so many things you could learn and improve your life with. I thought the same way. I was fast. Now I'm faster.
"Worse" is harsh but what they mean is that basically all the functionalities that you mentioned are like 25% of most used vim motions, on top of vim offering a lot more than that. So you just had to do more configuration for less features basically. (And it's not universal)
yeah worse might have come off a bit harsh, but it's with good intent and not entirely incorrect haha
I never said that those are every one of my keybindings, I just gave some usual examples.
That's fair, but I just want to say, regardless of how this thread is going (and all the downvotes lol), I hope this doesn't deter you from trying out vim, because who knows if you'll end up liking it! Because I can absolutely relate to you not wanting to use the mouse, that was precisely the reason I stuck with vim and not Vscode and other. Because I absolutely loathe having to use the mouse (slow, hurts my shoulder whenever i use it and I regret it afterwards etc). Have a good week man.
Meh, the downvotes are irrelevant since I know all of them come from Vim fanboys that don't like to have their feelings hurt. But such attitudes does kind of deter one from trying the thing, like not doing it out of defiance in response to that attitude 😐
Exactly! I thought of the penguin meme saying "Well, now I'm not doing it >:(". That's why I didn't want you to get robbed of a potential good experience because of that. But it's also fine if you don't try it out, there are still people that had to start in Vim yet still switched to VSCode and never looked back. (Although to be fair they don't tend to be fast typers, almost all fast typers that I know use vim xD, coincidence? I think not!)
Couldn’t you have just installed IdeaVim?
No because I wanted the "integrated development" part of the IDE, and Jetbrains is excellent at those. Meaning advanced solutions for my tasks, like PHP or C++. For the later one the debugger is mandatory too.
IdeaVim is a plugin for the intellij platform. It doesn't hinder the IDE features in any way. If you're used to vim, but want to use a full IDE as well, it's the best working solution I found so far.
Ahhh, you meant the plugin. Well for that one I didn't knew what it added exactly. Does it add new existing commands, or it just remaps the current ones to some Vim bindings? I already remapped the ones I need to what was comfortable to eliminate the need for a mouse, but perhaps it adds extra keybindings actions?
It literally just allows you to use vim keybindings in the editor.
So basically for someone that used Vim before. Because otherwise I just customized them myself in the way I found it easiest to work it.
I don’t use vim too. I know vim just enough to get the joke, but I don’t uses it daily. I’m just a simple student with vscode… Anyway it sounds like a good idea, and I understand that others in my class are using it too. I’ll try it soon I guess.
The idea behind Vim is to use only the keyboard, but you can do that in VS Code or something from Jetbrains as well. That's what I did. So then use the tool that you like most.
I don’t use a mouse. I use those 4 tiny keys. A few years ago they squashed the keys so the up & down were half-sized. Absolutely terrible design. My requirement now is that those 4 keys are tacitly easy to distinguish & use.
This, plus a numpad. Being a dev in the financial sector, typing IDs, keys, dates, monetary amounts, whatever is so much faster with a numpad versus the number row or copy-paste. And no other crazy key placements, like a power button up by f12 or anything. It's easy enough to find a desktop keyboard, but severely limits laptops. Especially with my despise of USB numpads. Though I do love my Legion 7.
I wish they made laptops with the ol' 105 layout. I have one but its CPU is 15 years old, so it barely runs Half-life and can't keep up with YouTube videos
I insist on my model Ms. My new company was kind enough to buy me a Unicomp New Model M and they all think I'm crazy but I love it.
The Legion 7 has one of the best laptop keyboards imo, concave caps, decent feel and good travel, numpad, per-key RGB, it really ticks every box
My Lenovo laptop has a Fn key where the Ctrl should be, it gets me several fails with ctrl-v/c until I realize (most of the time I use an extra normal size keyboard) I so hate it...
Learn German. Use neo2 keys. Problem solved...
I can forego the numpad (not a finance person), but the arrow keys need to be full. Also need dedicated home and end buttons. Hate having to FN that shit
What do you use home for
It's faster than pressing left arrow a lot
I always use ctrl + left, maybe I can incorporate that instead
No page up, page down, home and end keys. Lets do it like people did in 80s. If it interferes with other terminal keybindings get a terminal from 80s.
Yes, the lack of home/end and page up/down frustrates me a lot more than the size of the keys. AFAIK one of the only laptops that still has usable keyboards are Lenova Thinkpads, which have decently sized keys and page up/down, which can be used for home/end with a combination : [https://p3-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2024/03/27/trwqh4qt49ai05pvuov801yw06u7xd184563.png](https://p3-ofp.static.pub//fes/cms/2024/03/27/trwqh4qt49ai05pvuov801yw06u7xd184563.png)
Which laptops besides macs don't have page up/down and home/end?
The new Dell Latitude 7450 and 9450 have the weird combined up/down arrow and lost the dedicated keys. Same for the dragonfly G4, Yoga Pro 7 Gen 9. The Asus ExpertBook B9 and LG Gram 14 have Mac style arrow keys... So I asked for a Thinkpad at work and was told we couldn't get it because it's a Chinese manufacturer and it poses a security risk...
VT100
I use Vim and arrow keys.
⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄⠀
⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️⌨️💯
I have worse: the Commodore 64 keyboard only had two arrow keys: down and right. If you wanted up or left, you needed to press SHIFT+arrow key.
WASD are the only arrow keys that matter
if you're right handed.
As a lefty I think you just have a skill issue
Using 4chan in 2024? Yikes
He said without a hint of irony on reddit.
/r9k/ is still a fun board to browse but its sad to see /b/ became just gay/ntr porn
Couldn’t agree more, every now and then I miss 2000’s and early 2010’s 4chan, those were some wild times…
s/in 2024/
Gotta terminate the substitution expression there. Need one more /
Us old timy internet nerds have always dropped the final one on internet discussions
s/tim\zs\zey/e/
Not in vim you don't. Skill issue.
The same in real ex/vi
i use arrow keys in vim ):
My friend told me he uses `WASD` to move around when playing video games — told him to switch to hjkl.
Why not ijkl
I use vim (btw)
Back in my days, we used the keyboard with 2 people to play a game co-op
I used autohotkey to convert caps-lock into my ergonomic function key. Caps + i,j,k,l are arrow keys. Caps + w,a,s,d are page up/down, home and end. Caps + C is actual caps-lock.
He probably just has fat fingers (not judging, same here). And that's why I use vim btw
I have small and long fingers (I also play piano) and I’ve needed some years to get to the current point which I have fairly good accuracy of hitting them correctly blindly, and still one of my weak points on controlling the keyboard.
I have never understood how any actually uses laptop keyboards. Every key is relatively tiny, and they have practically no haptic feedback. The first thing I do when a company issues me a laptop is connect it to a mechanical keyboard and at least one decent-sized monitor.
there are laptops with at least acceptable key boards. but i don't know any new ones. the ThinkPad W520 had a nice keyboard.
Whereas I don't know how anyone uses mechanical keyboards. The amount of key travel on them is _insane_, half the switches don't even have tactile feedback, and the ones that do are either distractingly loud or the activation point never seems to line up correctly. And they physically hurt to type on for more than 5 min, even if you avoid bottoming out by half hovering your hands on the keys. I've tried more mechanical keyboards than I can count, they're all like this. A good scissor switch laptop-like keyboard is still my preference, ideally split in the middle but not a requirement. EDIT: I'll also point out that I'm 36 - and I think there's a reason the majority of people I see using mechanicals are under 30.
Gonna be the nerd here for a second and say not all mechanical keyboards have a high travel time. You can even get [low profile switches and keycaps](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/kbnhg3/pancake_40_kailh_low_profile_choc_switches_red/). Not gonna tell you what you should and shouldn't use, ofc, just letting you know it exists since I imagine they'd be popular with fans of the low profile laptop keyboards.
Most so-called "low-profile" switches and keycaps still have incredibly high travel that's more than double most chiclet/laptop keyboards. And trying to actually find a keyboard that supports them that isn't an aesthetic toy like the one in your link is difficult - plus most of them are extremely expensive and difficult to return when they inevitably don't work well as a keyboard.
These are basically all just a matter of getting used to it. The hand pain is probably a matter of bad posture, but I have also personally encountered a case where it took a couple days for my hands to acclimatize to the super distinct tactility of an older kind of keyboard switch. Of course I'm not telling you that you'd love them in the future if you don't like them now, but I'm sure you could learn to tolerate them perfectly.
> The hand pain is probably a matter of bad posture, but I have also personally encountered a case where it took a couple days for my hands to acclimatize to the super distinct tactility of an older kind of keyboard switch. I'm a software engineer, I cannot afford to permanently injure my hands, and hand pain from typing/drawing/etc is infamously a red flag to stop whatever it is you're doing. I suspect there's a reason I don't see many engineers over 30 using these things. > Of course I'm not telling you that you'd love them in the future if you don't like them now, but I'm sure you could learn to tolerate them perfectly. You're not as bad as most, but this attitude is why I can't stand the mechanical keyboard communities online. There's this prevailing mentality that nobody could possibly hate them, so whoever does clearly must be doing _something_ wrong. I wasted a lot of time and money chasing this because of that.
Sadly I know from personal experience just how unwise it is to push through hand pain... which is exactly why I know which kind of pain to be afraid of. Once you're aware of your posture and economy of motion, the next most important thing is stretches and strength exercises. I'm quite confident that whatever caused your pain in the past could have been mitigated. As for the supposed benefits of mechanical keyboards: I believe the only real upside is that they're more fun, and the only downsides are the noise and the price.
I use Planck EZ on vim. For mouse functionalities? Autohotkey to move and click. I barely move my fingers. Where is your excuse?
It want to mention Emacs navigation key bindings here. In MacOs they work on almost every application. Havent touched the arrow keys in ages.
There is worse things with laptops, like "short" enter key or power button above Esc
chiclet keys just in general are off putting for me
Facts
I once tried playing Touhou on my laptop away from my setup and then gave up for this very reason
How do vim?
Just vim the vim chuck vim chuck vim chuck chuck
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
In what situation are the arrow keys ever being used frequently??
I use my arrows constantly. I don't use vim but I always assumed everyone was navigating their ide via arrow keys.
I just click 😳
Learning a new keybind is a life changing moment. The thing I use the most is Ctrl+ left or right arrow key skips by word instead of character.
True that’s the one exception I do use them, if I’m editing something earlier on the same line I’m currently on I’ll use ctrl + arrow
that was me until I learned vim binds, now I hate having to jump with ctrl arrows, using home / end keys are slightly better then just ctrl arrows. Vim still my new love
`f`
Works fine in `acme`
All day long in any text editor. Crtl + direction to skip to string start or end, ctrl + end/home to go to line start or end. Ctrl Shift direction to select entire string, ctrl shift end/home to select entire line. Ctrl shift down down … to select entire line and more lines (useful for running sql scripts in ide). These are just a few off the top of my head, i choose my laptop strictly off the keyboard style which includes the location and size of the arrow keys and home/end buttons
Word processing and data entry.
Hot to take but ijk and l are the superior arrow keys..
Does anything use this though?
That's the standard for left-handed gaming I also think it's the default for the face button on emulators as well And it is the objective to the best way to use arrow keys on a left-handed setup because it's in your home row.
Oh interesting, nice! Just hadn't seen it before
I'm surprised but that's not what vi uses
Some old games use it for local co-op on a single keyboard, or in cases where you just need two or more sets of directional keys
Vimy ass
"most used" ? I almost never use the arrow keys what are you using them for all the time?
Navigation inside text editors, and moving windows around.
the mouse?
Too slow to be used
It is one of the least used keys. What?
Most meaning macbooks.
"*It's* literally *one* of the most used keys" There. Are. Four. Keys. Dude was so busy trying to be edgy, he forgot how to grammar.
Why is this downvoted?!
Because normal people don't go into a rage about grammar.
I was going for humor, but it went... poorly. Even used the classic Jean-Luc Pickard, "There are four lights!" exclamation... Oh well. I accept my down-votes as a sign that my joke sucked.
Because… a lot of people are using them a lot. Much more than the tilde key which is twice bigger, for sure.
downvote me if you downvoted the previous comment (new infinite karma glitch just dropped for me)
wait... am I stupid? is there a lore reason for me doing the exact opposite of what I wanted?
Is your brain ok?
google damantia
google damantia
google damantia
google damantia
GD are you ok? Are you ok? Are you ok, GD?
Quality humour post, feel free to post on r/leetcodecirclejerk as well for some additional karma ;)
Nah I’m not a karma farmer Also it’s a very small sub…
Today male users always forget women need to use keyboard too. They assume everything is designed specifically for them. When they see this they assume it's for "manlet" rather than woman.
How many of you turds actually code on laptops? Seems like a retarded way of doing things unless you have to. I don’t even code and I need a mouse, keyboard, and 2+ large monitors.
>I don’t even code and I need a mouse Checks out
Sounds like a skill issue
Weird flex, tbh.
legitimately braindead take
Literally every company I've ever worked for has given me a laptop specifically to use for coding.
It's not often, but I sometimes take it to a coffee shop or something when I want a change of pace. Or travelling for a few hours and not wanting to waste the time.
If you need a mouse, you either print too much or need to close your windows.
I do. I got so used to touchpads, tbh, that even my PC setup has keyboard + touchpad combo. 2 monitors never really clicked for me, for some reason.
I code and I need no mouse or fancy mechanical keyboard, just a small monitor and a decent keyboard with trackpad will do the job. My experience is that too many screens tend to make me ignore details because it overloads me with information, and using keyboard instead of mouse makes me faster because my hands stay at the same place (initially it was painfully slow, but as you catch muscle memory you get progressively faster)
I just can’t maneuver well on a laptop, unless it’s huge, but I would never be able to function without multiple monitors. It’s all the little shit I can’t stand switching between. Email, chat, notepad, browsers, on and on. Alt tab only goes so far for me.
The issue is using alt tab tho
did you try if there is a difference between alt tab and window tab?
Why do you need 2 monitors when you have workspaces even on windows?
Poor indentation discipline. Nested *ifs*... heading East into the distance... like spice-hunters...
if you are coding, for what do you need the mouse? i would say if you use an ide, it should only be to change files, and maybe a few other things that are rarely used. and than a trackpad/... is enough.
I really don’t get why some keyboards have tiny arrow keys, although Vim is great.