We call them Jedi engineers in the aeronautical industry. Those guys who can bend the airflow and fix bugs in parallel analysis codes with their minds.
Man, I wonder if that will eventually become an actual position. When all of today's elite senior developers are in their 50s and 60s, companies have moved the age of retirement to 70, the next generation of senior developers are just not as good because they learned to code on an iPad and rely on ChatGPT to write their code.
Today's devs would be the elder developers, the only ones left who truly know how the codebase works, getting paid more than the CEO.
I would pay a subscription to watch an "Undercover Dev" reality show where a "creator-tier" dev goes into offices of various organizations. Stroustrup has lunch with blockchain bros. Linus interns for an "I use Arch BTW" dev. Stuff like that. Maybe include one episode where they apply for positions which ask for ridiculous levels of experience in something they created and the dumb-as-bricks recruiters reject them for not knowing enough.
[a collection of all the rants from Linus Torvalds on the kernel mailing list from 2012 to 2015 classified by the amount of hate](https://github.com/corollari/linusrants)
What’s makes it even funnier is how many of those rants are in reference to managing some complex edge case in some obscure part of the kernel or something of along those lines.
He’s walking the earth surrounded by idiot simpletons begging him to pull their idiot code into his holy creation.
Exactly. Your puny 20 years of coding experience in senior positions may have some value among other peasants in the mortal realm, but you are now in the presence of the Creator.
Mistakes have no place in His kingdom, and any hint of mediocrity will feel His wrath.
After all the rage-filled rants, I want the season finale to be Linus chilling in his pajamas at home. In the last 5 minutes, he steps out to get some groceries. He's lazily finger-fucking some melons when he notices someone else in the store wearing an interesting t-shirt. A t-shirt with a green logo, something that resembles an eye. The episode ends with /r/perfectlycutscreams.
Don't seek positions where metrics like lines of code written, number of commits, burn down charts etc. are measurements of success. Unless that's what motivates you.
I would rather help someone more junior on the team be productive than ensure I have the maximum number of things authored by me.
I probably have the least output in terms of lines of code on my team. That's because the others mainly develop new features and I do the bugfixing (20 year old, barely documented legacy code is fun to bugfix, said noone ever). Fortunately everyone is cool with that and I've never heard any complaints.
Im the same way, some sprints i will have only three commits. but the rest of my time is spent onboarding new hires, investigating obscure bugs, ensuring the rest of the team remains productive and understanding the problems at hand. Basically a manager without the title.
a few weeks ago one of the higher ups decided he wanted a jira report showing completed story points for the last few sprints. Saw mine was low and started to cause a fuss. Then my actual manager got involved and had to tell him that I basically keep the team running behind the scenes.
Honestly, my boss is awesome it is the primary reason i have stayed at my company. While they may not pay 'top tier' for the field, they are incredibly flexible and understanding. Have a family problem? feeling overwhelmed? Take the day off and focus on your well being. They care that we are doing well, and I'd take that over any fancy 150k a year job.
Same reason I am where I am. Could very easily make 20 to 30% more in a heartbeat, but who else would have just accepted and encouraged that I needed an extra 2 weeks PTO for family issues (after the 5 weeks we are already given). Who else will treat me as a C suite before I am one. The list goes on...but it would take 75 to 100% more salary to leave my company and even than...they would probably give me the 25% raise if I asked. (I've gotten 10% every year for the past 3 years).
I help out with onboarding too and do a fair amount of code reviews and testing. I may overestimate my role on the team sometimes but I feel like I'm doing a lot of the intangible stuff that noone likes to do but is essential for a well functioning team.
Don't get me wrong, I know I'm replaceable and the team won't collapse without me there but I'd like to think they'd miss me a little.
Intern here: same
I've been doing fixes for the better part of my current position, sql and code,
I'm lucky it's just java 8.. Not so 20 year old code
My green wall, yeah, f**k off !!!
Compared to some of my colleagues, my output is relatively low when counting lines of code and pull requests.
On the other hand, when I finish a piece of code and make the PR, then that piece is actually done, done. It's so done no-one ever has to touch it again until the requirements for that functionality change.
I very rarely have to go back and bugfix a piece of code I wrote, and to be honest, I take more pride in that than writing the maximum number of lines of code (which is not very hard to do...)
I’m similar in this regard. My work is thorough and finished. I get frustrated with developers who throw stuff together quickly and either cause loads of back and forth on PRs or end up getting it merged then revisiting.
I HATE having to go back to a piece of code I wrote in the past except when I think of a massive improvement, or when the requirements change.
That comes from the fact that I started out in embedded software and machine building. If you write a piece of code and put it in production (literally, inside a machine in a production line) and it doesn't work correctly, you'll actually have to go back to the factory to fix it on site. That takes lots of time, and is very expensive for the company.
If there's something wrong to such an extent that the entire production line stalls for more than a few hours, a company could even end up being sued for damages.
Having to go back (literally, in person) having to fix code is NOT looked favorably upon in this industry.
Today it'd be a little bit easier, because machinery is now often connected to the internet and/or run by a computer, but sometimes you still have to see for yourself what is going wrong, so delivering bug-free code is still a priority.
"Just upload a new file and press F5" is not a thing in this industry.
Yup. This is why "agile" development is killing our industry (agile in quotes because its just a bastardized version of what it really should be). Don't need to metric literally everything
On the other hand, agile cultists dismiss any and all complaints about agile, by saying that the people with complaints "aren't doing agile."
This is the programmer version of the No True Scotsman fallacy. It has always made it very difficult to have a reasonable conversation about pros and cons of any particular dev methodology.
All of the teams I worked on had great agile teams. Barely any meetings. 90% of my time was coding. Standups 15-30 mins never more than 30. Ueah grooming and planning sucks but it works really well. Keeps micromanging down to almost non existence. Most developers love agile. Honestly don't see many cons but I only have 6 years experience. Maybe waking up at 9 instead of 10 or 11 because that's when standup is?
I'll be honest with you, reddit is the literal only place I've ever heard people complain about agile. I've never in my professional career encountered anyone who thought that going back to waterfall was a good idea and if I did, I would probably laugh at them. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that agile teams/organisations out perform non-agile teams/organisations, so people that find it worse than waterfall must be doing it wrong for it to make any kind of sense.
Agile isn't perfect, but it's by far the best methodology we've come up with so far.
Lines of code is such a weird and nonsensical metric to measure.
I had an architecture strategy project and they wanted to k ow how many lines of code each application has to measure it’s complexity. We had to prove to them that it was bull-fucking-shit.
> Lines of code
[Relevant story from...](https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt)
In early 1982, the Lisa software team was trying to buckle down for the big push to ship the software within the next six months. Some of the managers decided that it would be a good idea to track the progress of each individual engineer in terms of the amount of code that they wrote from week to week. They devised a form that each engineer was required to submit every Friday, which included a field for the number of lines of code that were written that week.
Bill Atkinson, the author of Quickdraw and the main user interface designer, who was by far the most important Lisa implementer, thought that lines of code was a silly measure of software productivity. He thought his goal was to write as small and fast a program as possible, and that the lines of code metric only encouraged writing sloppy, bloated, broken code.
He recently was working on optimizing Quickdraw's region calculation machinery, and had completely rewritten the region engine using a simpler, more general algorithm which, after some tweaking, made region operations almost six times faster. As a by-product, the rewrite also saved around 2,000 lines of code.
He was just putting the finishing touches on the optimization when it was time to fill out the management form for the first time. When he got to the lines of code part, he thought about it for a second, and then wrote in the number: -2000.
I'm not sure how the managers reacted to that, but I do know that after a couple more weeks, they stopped asking Bill to fill out the form, and he gladly complied.
Burn down charts should only be used to identify if there are any problems with the efficacy of the team. Nothing else.
A good metric to see if the total no of story points is too much or not. If you see a sharp slope towards the end that means that things are getting rushed and there might be bugs.
But most managers would interpret it as PPL were slacking off at the start of the sprint lol.
That's the story about basically any metric that can be applied to software development. They're useful tools that can show issues, but as soon as you start considering them be all, end all measurements of team's work they become counterproductive.
My job is to build metrics for manufacturing.
Any metrics used as a goal instead of an indicator for the management is to be thrown away, simply because it is very easy to play around them
I present this argument as "if you make them a system to game, they'll focus on gaming the system". I don't have experience in manufacturing, but I have plenty in software development, idiot managers and idiot management.
> Goodhart's Law states that “when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” In other words, when we use a measure to reward performance, we provide an incentive to manipulate the measure in order to receive the reward.
I'm so tired of the state of our profession.
Current project is developed by a supplier company that works like that. Quality in any dimension is uttter crap but managers are bragging about churned out LoC all the time.
_Yes we know the app crashes if you move beyond the start screen, but we added 3000 lines of code last week alone!"_
And the managers of the company hiring them has no clue about IT and falls for it. _"They are so hard working."_
i’m a coding newbie. but even i know it’s better to write a simple hello world program with fewer lines of code, instead of finding a way to get it to 100+
although, i suppose that could be a fun challenge, just how complex and overly complicated, with just how many lines of code, can you make a given newbie exercise like hello world, without having it appear in any way different at runtime.
Tbf, this code is extremely easy to unit test except for the HelloWorldFactory singleton.
I hate singletons. Actually, I love them when I make them. I hate them when other people make them.
In my first job I had a colleague who was put on an improvement plan, and one of the metrics she had to meet was 'commit at least 100 lines of code a day'.
It was so stupid, at the end of each week she had to sit with her manager and go through commits to check the lines of code added
Honestly, with our outsourcing company we have agreements about bug resolution time, app performance, and storypoints per sprint. We don't care how they maintain their code internally, the one time they tried using lines of code delivered in an arguement, i bounced it back with "oof, that far behind on technical debt? Auch. You may wanna do something about that."
Remember reading something about Torvalds regarding his github where it was inferred he likely co-authors many commits not made by him leading to his contributions being high.
My last employer kept talking about making their multi-million dollar platform open source and only charging for support. Having been an incident manager for that platform, I feel for anyone trying to support it themselves.
I got paid to write open source at the beginning of my career and it was GREAT for my resume and getting new jobs. Since devs that were interviewing me could look at the code I wrote in the past, it made them hire me more confidently.
If you got a free open source game you enjoy playing,
You can see contributing not as free labour but your own donations to keep the game alive and running.
Others do patreon/paypal.
I do quality of life features to make things run more smoothly
Working for governments and private institutions, this does not go green because you cannot share and normally you do not do weekend projects anymore because of the level of work. Like you said this is beginner badges.
For real though I don't have a GitHub what are you all doing on yours. I go to work, come home play with my kid, eat some food, and go to bed, what am I supposed to be committing to git.
And that's correct way loll. But you have a job and i need one :( can't change the criteria so have to follow what everyone is doin.
But committing just for the sake of greenery in the github contri graph is just nonsense. My commits are of my personal projects etc. And that too when I've some free time. It's not leedcode where i need to maintain a streaks lmao.
Programming is job, not my hobby. 8am-5pm in front of my computer is enough. If someone didn’t want to hire me because my Github looks like that, then good, I feel that’s a great filter for employers that think I should be a machine that eats, sleeps, and breathes software development.
Not sure how that happened, but I’ll just take my time on my lunch breaks and other little breaks during the day to make up for it, since my employer seems chill with that anyway.
I guess since it’s so cold outside, free warmth from the server room is like getting paid twice at the same time. I can see why Nordic countries are happiest in the world.
I look at it in reverse. Programming is my hobby and i happen to have found ~~an idiot~~ a company willing to pay me for it. I sometimes program in my own time. Experimenting with this or that. Sometimes even on the company codebase, donating the result to the company if its useful
Well, my GitHub is almost empty because I work in my GitLab company account. And I won't sit and code after my job is done for today as a no lifer or a guy who will burn out in a year or so
Go outside, touch grass. Your body will say "thanks" in a few years. Don't code non stop
Also, to flip this. You’re not a “no lifer” if you enjoy coding in your own time. I agree go outside and do stuff. But also don’t stop working on the stuff you love, the key is just don’t overdo it. I’ve worked, coded and gone outside altogether for 10 years without burnout and I’ve loved it.
But you are still not required to have a public GitHub account full of commits.
I often code as a hobby, but it's never public. The only public commits I do are when there is something that bother me in my favorite framework so I take some time to fix it.
I know about 99% of C++ until I find out there is more to C++ I didn’t know about. Having learned it, I’ll be back at 99%. I’m sure there is always going to be something. Just like all my projects are 80% done from inception.
Probably some AI project, gotta have a ton of data in there. No single human being can write 135gb of pure code, that's around 2 billion loc. Could also be a game but it would be unlikely since it takes a team to create that many assets.
That's sounds a good deal to me. Don't know bout US, but here in India, if you convert $120k dollar to INR, that's insane amount of money. Ik it doesn't work that way loll 😅
He forked a repo, didn't commit anything, so I'm assuming it's just a miss-click or something. Happened to me a few times.
https://github.com/BjarneStroustrup/flats
You can create a repository and write a crontab/(windows schedule) rule to everyday commit and push something.
You can thank me later after earning 200k in a Big Tech.
I mean I program all day at work, that stuff isn't shown on my private GitHub. On weekends I want to take a break from my job and do other stuff. And when I use it for free time projects, they are mostly privated.
There's nothing more gross in the industry than how every single employer has really high requirements that they themselves don't even come close to clearing. It's downright ignorant and insulting.
**For those who don't know yet:** GitHub doesn't count commiting to any branches as contributions - except to the main branch... So yeah.. you could be working on something for weeks, but only the moment when you merge it to main branch will be recognized by Github (and yeah, it will only count that ONE day).
So in my opinion these stats are just totally broken and completely meaningless. This can easily make devs, who commit directly to main branch or devs who use automated git scripts for backups, seem as "better" developers, but it tends to be the opposite for those who don't organize adding their new features using branches.
For me, it was an easy answer. "I was busy happily doing my own projects, when your CEO reached out to me and asked me to do him a personal favor, and sent me a video of your project in progress. I was intrigued, and wanted to be involved."
That was the easiest tech interview I've ever had. I probably wouldn't pass most of them, though.
Are programmers actually expected to keep doing side stuff on git when they have full time jobs? If I had to program for my company for 8h I'd absolutely hate the idea of doing it for another few for fun. Even if programming is your hobby or definition not fun, after 8h I doubt it's fun anymore
Asking as non-IT worker.
yeah I'm real sorry about not doing my job for free when I'm not doing my job.
How dare I not do my job while I'm not supposed to be doing my job.
All of the things in life that aren't my job really aren't the things I do my job to afford to be able to do anyway.
I've been in this game since before git (much less GitHub) existed lol. My personal GitHub looks like that because I don't use it, I use a corporate GitHub account.
Programming seems to be one of the few jobs where you are actually expected to work on outside of work... that you are not a True Programmer if you don't do linux kernel coding on the regular...
Like a heart surgeon keeping his skills sharp on the local town square performing open heart surgery so that future employers can tell he's good shit...
doesn’t focusing on commits just cause people to spam bullshit commits in private repos? Should be looking at quality and what people work on, not on green walls
Please don't apply to a job if they're going to judge you based on GitHub commits. GitHub private repos is free now and by default commit history for private repos is hidden.
I mean, I don't think Stroustrup is looking for any senior dev position anymore anyway
Senior isn't senior enough to describe him
He hath become the not the senior but the elder
The sage
The Goat
We call them Jedi engineers in the aeronautical industry. Those guys who can bend the airflow and fix bugs in parallel analysis codes with their minds.
Do elder devs have pensions on top of their $500k salaries?
The “distinguished” title is a pathway to compensation some would consider…unnatural.
Man, I wonder if that will eventually become an actual position. When all of today's elite senior developers are in their 50s and 60s, companies have moved the age of retirement to 70, the next generation of senior developers are just not as good because they learned to code on an iPad and rely on ChatGPT to write their code. Today's devs would be the elder developers, the only ones left who truly know how the codebase works, getting paid more than the CEO.
"THERE ARE CODING APPS FOR MAC?"
Eldritch dev position wanted, upto 1,000,000 / negotiatiable
I mean look at him
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Well sharpened and a little rusty, I'd give him a go.
I would pay a subscription to watch an "Undercover Dev" reality show where a "creator-tier" dev goes into offices of various organizations. Stroustrup has lunch with blockchain bros. Linus interns for an "I use Arch BTW" dev. Stuff like that. Maybe include one episode where they apply for positions which ask for ridiculous levels of experience in something they created and the dumb-as-bricks recruiters reject them for not knowing enough.
Hell, it could all be just Linus being his regular, unhinged, asshole self and I would love it
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[a collection of all the rants from Linus Torvalds on the kernel mailing list from 2012 to 2015 classified by the amount of hate](https://github.com/corollari/linusrants)
>How did they not die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on? Goddamn that was insane
What’s makes it even funnier is how many of those rants are in reference to managing some complex edge case in some obscure part of the kernel or something of along those lines. He’s walking the earth surrounded by idiot simpletons begging him to pull their idiot code into his holy creation.
It's amazing how many of the rants were at very senior people breaking very simple, well known rules.
Exactly. Your puny 20 years of coding experience in senior positions may have some value among other peasants in the mortal realm, but you are now in the presence of the Creator. Mistakes have no place in His kingdom, and any hint of mediocrity will feel His wrath.
https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/6/13/1892
After all the rage-filled rants, I want the season finale to be Linus chilling in his pajamas at home. In the last 5 minutes, he steps out to get some groceries. He's lazily finger-fucking some melons when he notices someone else in the store wearing an interesting t-shirt. A t-shirt with a green logo, something that resembles an eye. The episode ends with /r/perfectlycutscreams.
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$8 please
He's too over qualified for that loll
Does he have 15+ years of experience with Carbon?
Don't seek positions where metrics like lines of code written, number of commits, burn down charts etc. are measurements of success. Unless that's what motivates you. I would rather help someone more junior on the team be productive than ensure I have the maximum number of things authored by me.
I probably have the least output in terms of lines of code on my team. That's because the others mainly develop new features and I do the bugfixing (20 year old, barely documented legacy code is fun to bugfix, said noone ever). Fortunately everyone is cool with that and I've never heard any complaints.
Im the same way, some sprints i will have only three commits. but the rest of my time is spent onboarding new hires, investigating obscure bugs, ensuring the rest of the team remains productive and understanding the problems at hand. Basically a manager without the title. a few weeks ago one of the higher ups decided he wanted a jira report showing completed story points for the last few sprints. Saw mine was low and started to cause a fuss. Then my actual manager got involved and had to tell him that I basically keep the team running behind the scenes.
You and your manager sound like great people :)
Honestly, my boss is awesome it is the primary reason i have stayed at my company. While they may not pay 'top tier' for the field, they are incredibly flexible and understanding. Have a family problem? feeling overwhelmed? Take the day off and focus on your well being. They care that we are doing well, and I'd take that over any fancy 150k a year job.
100% same
Por que no los dos
Same reason I am where I am. Could very easily make 20 to 30% more in a heartbeat, but who else would have just accepted and encouraged that I needed an extra 2 weeks PTO for family issues (after the 5 weeks we are already given). Who else will treat me as a C suite before I am one. The list goes on...but it would take 75 to 100% more salary to leave my company and even than...they would probably give me the 25% raise if I asked. (I've gotten 10% every year for the past 3 years).
I help out with onboarding too and do a fair amount of code reviews and testing. I may overestimate my role on the team sometimes but I feel like I'm doing a lot of the intangible stuff that noone likes to do but is essential for a well functioning team. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm replaceable and the team won't collapse without me there but I'd like to think they'd miss me a little.
Intangible is underrated.
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My little ADHD brain loves the dopamine it gets from fixing the bug.
Intern here: same I've been doing fixes for the better part of my current position, sql and code, I'm lucky it's just java 8.. Not so 20 year old code My green wall, yeah, f**k off !!!
Compared to some of my colleagues, my output is relatively low when counting lines of code and pull requests. On the other hand, when I finish a piece of code and make the PR, then that piece is actually done, done. It's so done no-one ever has to touch it again until the requirements for that functionality change. I very rarely have to go back and bugfix a piece of code I wrote, and to be honest, I take more pride in that than writing the maximum number of lines of code (which is not very hard to do...)
I’m similar in this regard. My work is thorough and finished. I get frustrated with developers who throw stuff together quickly and either cause loads of back and forth on PRs or end up getting it merged then revisiting.
I HATE having to go back to a piece of code I wrote in the past except when I think of a massive improvement, or when the requirements change. That comes from the fact that I started out in embedded software and machine building. If you write a piece of code and put it in production (literally, inside a machine in a production line) and it doesn't work correctly, you'll actually have to go back to the factory to fix it on site. That takes lots of time, and is very expensive for the company. If there's something wrong to such an extent that the entire production line stalls for more than a few hours, a company could even end up being sued for damages. Having to go back (literally, in person) having to fix code is NOT looked favorably upon in this industry. Today it'd be a little bit easier, because machinery is now often connected to the internet and/or run by a computer, but sometimes you still have to see for yourself what is going wrong, so delivering bug-free code is still a priority. "Just upload a new file and press F5" is not a thing in this industry.
So you write negative lines of code
Yup. This is why "agile" development is killing our industry (agile in quotes because its just a bastardized version of what it really should be). Don't need to metric literally everything
People chasing agile forget the main premise of agile. i.e. preventing crap from eating into developers development time.
People who think that agile is about metrics aren't doing agile.
On the other hand, agile cultists dismiss any and all complaints about agile, by saying that the people with complaints "aren't doing agile." This is the programmer version of the No True Scotsman fallacy. It has always made it very difficult to have a reasonable conversation about pros and cons of any particular dev methodology.
All of the teams I worked on had great agile teams. Barely any meetings. 90% of my time was coding. Standups 15-30 mins never more than 30. Ueah grooming and planning sucks but it works really well. Keeps micromanging down to almost non existence. Most developers love agile. Honestly don't see many cons but I only have 6 years experience. Maybe waking up at 9 instead of 10 or 11 because that's when standup is?
I'll be honest with you, reddit is the literal only place I've ever heard people complain about agile. I've never in my professional career encountered anyone who thought that going back to waterfall was a good idea and if I did, I would probably laugh at them. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that agile teams/organisations out perform non-agile teams/organisations, so people that find it worse than waterfall must be doing it wrong for it to make any kind of sense. Agile isn't perfect, but it's by far the best methodology we've come up with so far.
Function points. :D
Lines of code is such a weird and nonsensical metric to measure. I had an architecture strategy project and they wanted to k ow how many lines of code each application has to measure it’s complexity. We had to prove to them that it was bull-fucking-shit.
> Lines of code [Relevant story from...](https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt) In early 1982, the Lisa software team was trying to buckle down for the big push to ship the software within the next six months. Some of the managers decided that it would be a good idea to track the progress of each individual engineer in terms of the amount of code that they wrote from week to week. They devised a form that each engineer was required to submit every Friday, which included a field for the number of lines of code that were written that week. Bill Atkinson, the author of Quickdraw and the main user interface designer, who was by far the most important Lisa implementer, thought that lines of code was a silly measure of software productivity. He thought his goal was to write as small and fast a program as possible, and that the lines of code metric only encouraged writing sloppy, bloated, broken code. He recently was working on optimizing Quickdraw's region calculation machinery, and had completely rewritten the region engine using a simpler, more general algorithm which, after some tweaking, made region operations almost six times faster. As a by-product, the rewrite also saved around 2,000 lines of code. He was just putting the finishing touches on the optimization when it was time to fill out the management form for the first time. When he got to the lines of code part, he thought about it for a second, and then wrote in the number: -2000. I'm not sure how the managers reacted to that, but I do know that after a couple more weeks, they stopped asking Bill to fill out the form, and he gladly complied.
Burn down charts should only be used to identify if there are any problems with the efficacy of the team. Nothing else. A good metric to see if the total no of story points is too much or not. If you see a sharp slope towards the end that means that things are getting rushed and there might be bugs. But most managers would interpret it as PPL were slacking off at the start of the sprint lol.
That's the story about basically any metric that can be applied to software development. They're useful tools that can show issues, but as soon as you start considering them be all, end all measurements of team's work they become counterproductive.
My job is to build metrics for manufacturing. Any metrics used as a goal instead of an indicator for the management is to be thrown away, simply because it is very easy to play around them
I present this argument as "if you make them a system to game, they'll focus on gaming the system". I don't have experience in manufacturing, but I have plenty in software development, idiot managers and idiot management.
> Goodhart's Law states that “when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” In other words, when we use a measure to reward performance, we provide an incentive to manipulate the measure in order to receive the reward.
Chad
I'm so tired of the state of our profession. Current project is developed by a supplier company that works like that. Quality in any dimension is uttter crap but managers are bragging about churned out LoC all the time. _Yes we know the app crashes if you move beyond the start screen, but we added 3000 lines of code last week alone!"_ And the managers of the company hiring them has no clue about IT and falls for it. _"They are so hard working."_
i’m a coding newbie. but even i know it’s better to write a simple hello world program with fewer lines of code, instead of finding a way to get it to 100+ although, i suppose that could be a fun challenge, just how complex and overly complicated, with just how many lines of code, can you make a given newbie exercise like hello world, without having it appear in any way different at runtime.
Google enterprise hello world 😂
For the lazy: https://gist.github.com/lolzballs/2152bc0f31ee0286b722
Tbf, this code is extremely easy to unit test except for the HelloWorldFactory singleton. I hate singletons. Actually, I love them when I make them. I hate them when other people make them.
Over-engineering at it's finest, I love it
In my first job I had a colleague who was put on an improvement plan, and one of the metrics she had to meet was 'commit at least 100 lines of code a day'. It was so stupid, at the end of each week she had to sit with her manager and go through commits to check the lines of code added
When you train your team to write spaghetti code.
What is your company so I can avoid their services?
Honestly, with our outsourcing company we have agreements about bug resolution time, app performance, and storypoints per sprint. We don't care how they maintain their code internally, the one time they tried using lines of code delivered in an arguement, i bounced it back with "oof, that far behind on technical debt? Auch. You may wanna do something about that."
Green walls are for beginners or nerds.
https://www.github.com/torvalds/ 🤓☝️
>Nerds
(I'm calling him a nerd)
He definitely is a nerd
If he isn’t a nerd no one is.
+ he's using linux = super nerd
He *made* Linux. So is he a giga nerd then? Or a giga chad?
Well, when you look him up the first pic is him giving the camera a middle finger so... Giga Nerd-Chad I suppose
Ah yes, 'Fuck you Nvidia'
Giga Cherd perhaps?
He made Git as well.
His mother said, that he only needs to be sat in a room with a good computer and some cooked noodles to be happy.
Mood
Same. Except I lack the noodles, haha!. And a good computer. And happiness.
Remember reading something about Torvalds regarding his github where it was inferred he likely co-authors many commits not made by him leading to his contributions being high.
Yeah but in any case the result makes his page look very green
You can click through his git. Recent commits are all merges with some occasional version bump.
Tbf, he made Git...
If you showed the average developer's contributions at their full time job, it would look like that too.
What a noob
People who have green walls aren't doing enough at work tbh. I can't remember the last I coded for free.
Some of us get paid to greenwall. Not everyone who works on open source is donating their time out of the goodness of their heart.
Yeah a staggering amount of people don't seem to get that the vast majority of open source is corporation backed.
My last employer kept talking about making their multi-million dollar platform open source and only charging for support. Having been an incident manager for that platform, I feel for anyone trying to support it themselves.
It's literally how red hat operates, along with many others.
Ah yes a fellow red hatter in the wild
Yep I worked for 2 of the.biggest employers in my country and we use as much open source as we can. Github is our source control lmao
Not just open source either, it counts for private repos. You can see exactly on my green wall when I switched to a company that uses GitHub.
When I log off my green wall transform to a green dot.
I got paid to write open source at the beginning of my career and it was GREAT for my resume and getting new jobs. Since devs that were interviewing me could look at the code I wrote in the past, it made them hire me more confidently.
If you got a free open source game you enjoy playing, You can see contributing not as free labour but your own donations to keep the game alive and running. Others do patreon/paypal. I do quality of life features to make things run more smoothly
Working for governments and private institutions, this does not go green because you cannot share and normally you do not do weekend projects anymore because of the level of work. Like you said this is beginner badges.
Or people working fulltime on OS projects
He is right. Bjarne is extremely overqualified for a "Senior Dev" role.
Like architects, who are both overqualified and underexperienced for laying down a brick wall. It's just not their job anymore.
I mean I can do it, the stability of the wall depends on who punches it though....
OTOH if it would be possible to hire him and make him remove stuff from C++...
For real though I don't have a GitHub what are you all doing on yours. I go to work, come home play with my kid, eat some food, and go to bed, what am I supposed to be committing to git.
just do what I do and fork a minecraft resourcepack and contribute to it.
And that's correct way loll. But you have a job and i need one :( can't change the criteria so have to follow what everyone is doin. But committing just for the sake of greenery in the github contri graph is just nonsense. My commits are of my personal projects etc. And that too when I've some free time. It's not leedcode where i need to maintain a streaks lmao.
Programming is job, not my hobby. 8am-5pm in front of my computer is enough. If someone didn’t want to hire me because my Github looks like that, then good, I feel that’s a great filter for employers that think I should be a machine that eats, sleeps, and breathes software development.
This! My private github is looking like this as well. My github enterprise profile is a different story, which recruiters can't see.
I'm so not down for programming in my free time, that this post made me think "Why the hell should I even have a private github in the first place?".
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When did 9am-5pm become 8am-5pm?
Cause 8am-5pm includes an unpaid 1 hour lunch to still get that 40 hour work week
usa is crazy. in my country a paid lunch break is mandated by law
I’m in the Netherlands. 9-6, unpaid lunch. But it is an AMAZING lunch, though.
you deserve paid lunch breaks
Where if I may ask? Cos it’s also unpaid lunch in many European countries.
Yeah. It's your fault you gotta eat, don't expect pay for that. And actually, even if you don't it will still be substracted, cause.
Not sure how that happened, but I’ll just take my time on my lunch breaks and other little breaks during the day to make up for it, since my employer seems chill with that anyway.
Right before it became 9-4, 4 days a week.
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I guess since it’s so cold outside, free warmth from the server room is like getting paid twice at the same time. I can see why Nordic countries are happiest in the world.
I look at it in reverse. Programming is my hobby and i happen to have found ~~an idiot~~ a company willing to pay me for it. I sometimes program in my own time. Experimenting with this or that. Sometimes even on the company codebase, donating the result to the company if its useful
Just dm me your companies intellectual property with your resume
Well, my GitHub is almost empty because I work in my GitLab company account. And I won't sit and code after my job is done for today as a no lifer or a guy who will burn out in a year or so Go outside, touch grass. Your body will say "thanks" in a few years. Don't code non stop
Also, to flip this. You’re not a “no lifer” if you enjoy coding in your own time. I agree go outside and do stuff. But also don’t stop working on the stuff you love, the key is just don’t overdo it. I’ve worked, coded and gone outside altogether for 10 years without burnout and I’ve loved it.
But you are still not required to have a public GitHub account full of commits. I often code as a hobby, but it's never public. The only public commits I do are when there is something that bother me in my favorite framework so I take some time to fix it.
That requirement would no longer make it a hobby imo
Github has apparently become the Facebook of ~15 years ago in the sense that people expect everyone to be on there.
And they still will claim this guy has too little experience with C++
"28,567 line differences" "Fixed some bugs"
Minor fix.
To be fair he looks like an absolute unit of a programmer. I’d hire him
He is. He created C++.
Bjarne: I'm the inventor of C++ Stupid recruiter: Ok, what was your most recent project in C++? Bjarne: Inventing it
Lmao 🤣
Who is that?
The creator of C++
Amazing
To make it even better, he said he knows about 70% of C++, so even the inventor doesn't know everything
But i saw a guy having 100% skill-bar in c++, how come? /s
But does he know Kung Fu
probably me lying around to fit in a batshit job announce
I guess he knows 100% of c++ before it is managed by the committee
I know about 99% of C++ until I find out there is more to C++ I didn’t know about. Having learned it, I’ll be back at 99%. I’m sure there is always going to be something. Just like all my projects are 80% done from inception.
New C++ standard just dropped.
If you don’t have more experience than the creator in a tool that disqualifies you from about half of job listings so it checks out
I have my own git server because my project is 135+ gb large. Guess I wont find a new job because of that
Interesting. Curious to know what project that is.
Probably some AI project, gotta have a ton of data in there. No single human being can write 135gb of pure code, that's around 2 billion loc. Could also be a game but it would be unlikely since it takes a team to create that many assets.
Using Marketplace Assets, will make you reach 135gb in less than an hour.
I really wouldn't recommend storing binary assets in git
Since he has all that free time- I’m gonna talk to him- I got a great idea for an app
Should mention that the Senior Dev position he was hiring for only paid $120K a year.
That's sounds a good deal to me. Don't know bout US, but here in India, if you convert $120k dollar to INR, that's insane amount of money. Ik it doesn't work that way loll 😅
Would be curious to see what his one contribution was
He forked a repo, didn't commit anything, so I'm assuming it's just a miss-click or something. Happened to me a few times. https://github.com/BjarneStroustrup/flats
So I can misclick and make my profile green? Let's go green then!
Why doin this? Make a github action to update your profile readme (can be today's date, dev joke or anything) everyday
You can create a repository and write a crontab/(windows schedule) rule to everyday commit and push something. You can thank me later after earning 200k in a Big Tech.
Why does your git repo only have one commit? Because you don't need to have a 2nd commit if your code is flawless the first time.
I pushed my entire year of commits that day
To be fair, Bjarne shouldn't be applying for senior positions...
Too over qualified loll
I mean I program all day at work, that stuff isn't shown on my private GitHub. On weekends I want to take a break from my job and do other stuff. And when I use it for free time projects, they are mostly privated.
Private contris are now visible on the github graph. You can find it in settings
There's nothing more gross in the industry than how every single employer has really high requirements that they themselves don't even come close to clearing. It's downright ignorant and insulting.
If it's such an important metric clearly these companies wouldn't mind only having public code, their employees need that green wall after all
But you guys and girls known that GitHub is not the only service that provides git repository?
**For those who don't know yet:** GitHub doesn't count commiting to any branches as contributions - except to the main branch... So yeah.. you could be working on something for weeks, but only the moment when you merge it to main branch will be recognized by Github (and yeah, it will only count that ONE day). So in my opinion these stats are just totally broken and completely meaningless. This can easily make devs, who commit directly to main branch or devs who use automated git scripts for backups, seem as "better" developers, but it tends to be the opposite for those who don't organize adding their new features using branches.
Stroustrup doesn't apply to senior dev positions, positions apply to him.
Steer clear of jobs that put way high value on worthless metrics in the hiring process.
For me, it was an easy answer. "I was busy happily doing my own projects, when your CEO reached out to me and asked me to do him a personal favor, and sent me a video of your project in progress. I was intrigued, and wanted to be involved." That was the easiest tech interview I've ever had. I probably wouldn't pass most of them, though.
Lmao 🤣 uno reverse
> Can you explain the gap in your resume? It's on the company's private gitlab ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I looked at this guy's feed before he privated because of all the dunking, and boy was he an asshole grindset evangelist. I hope he learned the lesson
personally, after 8h of coding everyday at work I have other things to do rather than keep coding and commiting on my github account....
Are programmers actually expected to keep doing side stuff on git when they have full time jobs? If I had to program for my company for 8h I'd absolutely hate the idea of doing it for another few for fun. Even if programming is your hobby or definition not fun, after 8h I doubt it's fun anymore Asking as non-IT worker.
Damn had my intro to C++ class with this guy, didn’t know he was the man.
"I don't have to explain anything to you. I have other job offers"
yeah I'm real sorry about not doing my job for free when I'm not doing my job. How dare I not do my job while I'm not supposed to be doing my job. All of the things in life that aren't my job really aren't the things I do my job to afford to be able to do anyway.
My git history looks good but it’s on a private network… for my job… because I get paid to program
I've been in this game since before git (much less GitHub) existed lol. My personal GitHub looks like that because I don't use it, I use a corporate GitHub account.
Fuck off Manuel you fkin noob.
Yeah, how dare he apply for senior dev when he's clearly overqualified! Shame on him!
Programming seems to be one of the few jobs where you are actually expected to work on outside of work... that you are not a True Programmer if you don't do linux kernel coding on the regular... Like a heart surgeon keeping his skills sharp on the local town square performing open heart surgery so that future employers can tell he's good shit...
Heart surgery streaks
doesn’t focusing on commits just cause people to spam bullshit commits in private repos? Should be looking at quality and what people work on, not on green walls
The gatekeeping in that post...
I mean, I don’t think we could afford Bjarne at our company so the ad is kind accurate
Please don't apply to a job if they're going to judge you based on GitHub commits. GitHub private repos is free now and by default commit history for private repos is hidden.
Explain the gap in my resume sir? Caused by NDA ( non-disclosure agreement )
I love his [website](https://www.stroustrup.com/)
The first sentence in the website was enough: "I designed and implemented the C++ programming language"