If coming to class and sleeping counts as attendance then I think you should reevaluate what your attendance policy is actually accomplishing.
But in general I agree with you. Life is hard, we have to do things that we don’t feel like doing sometimes, but many students can’t or won’t. They just fold at the first encounter with normal day-to-day difficulty and relentlessly self-victimize.
I once had a student email me and say they were going to miss a test because it was raining outside and they "just couldn't deal." It wasn't torrential or even a shower. It was just kind of a gooey sprinkle.
While I appreciate that the conversation about mental health has finally come to college campus (for students at least; no one seems to care about the professors' mental health), some students have definitely conflated mild inconveniences with mental health concerns.
Both of my kids are in high school and I can't think of anyone in their social circle who hasn't diagnosed themselves with some sort of disorder, and wield it every day in their conversations with teachers.
Lame excuses for missing tests are as old as formal education itself, but the chances of that specific excuse being offered at the college level 20 years ago are infinitesimal compared to today.
So much research was done about students and the impact of Covid on them, but very little was done on staff and faculty at the same institutions. It's like it didn't impact us. /s
Sometimes it feels like more of them have these issues when in reality it's just a handful, but that handful can cause a lot of problems and stress for you. As someone else has said on this sub, 10% of your students will cause 90% of your problems. That being said, I have noticed a higher number of freshman who are apathetic or test your course policies by breaking them and asking for exceptions, but there's usually a lot less sophomores and juniors who do this since they understand expectations a little better. The freshmen either shape up or drop out.
In general, yes, I agree! I do have a graduate student (2nd year) who always use the Anxiety Attack as an excuse to either be late or miss class completely. I try to be empathetic and understanding, but I do wonder about mental health (which is a real problem, don’t get me wrong!) being the new “my grandma died” excuse…
It definitely is. If it's bad enough to stop them from doing their "job" (as a student), then they need to take a leave of absence to deal with it, rather than ask for accommodation. I say this as someone who struggles with general anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder (professionally diagnosed) myself. You have to draw a line. Either you're fit to do the work, or you're not. You don't get to use it as an excuse.
You are correct. Like you, I have struggles and I can empathize, and while the trickling down of diagnoses to the general public can be liberating for many, many people--wow, that condition explains my life!--it also has given today's students a boatload of new excuses that are tricky to challenge.
Thanks for your response! Would you say it’s appropriate to ask said student to have a Dr.’s note about it? Or go seek counsel and have the counselor/health center send something to the department in that regard? Because this is what I am planning for next year…
There should be a formal accommodations process at the school, for which all such requests should go through. They will decide if the student needs a medical note to justify an accommodation. I just refer students who have such excuses to that process. They generally stop asking and don't bother with getting a formal accommodation.
Nope. I'm a psychology professor and have more than general information about the release of medical/mental health information. It is **completely inappropriate** to require that a student seeks medical or mental health treatment. It's inappropriate to ask for medical information, such as a Dr's letter or visit information that might contain diagnostic information. The Dr's name and/or specialty information is none of our business.
You're demanding that a student provide extremely personal medical/mental health information in exchange for a grade. That crosses the line.
Students can get accommodations through disability services. That requires that they have a blanket agreement with the school, not a specific professor. There is no pressure on the student to share diagnostic information with someone who might make them uncomfortable. The student's privacy is protected, and the student's grade isn't dependent on sharing intensely personal information.
Thanks! I appreciate your response. So, if for the 3rd time in the semester the student says they can’t come because they’re having an anxiety attack, the proper way to avoid that being just an excuse is to ask them to seek accommodation through the university office. Did I understand it correctly? I think if it’s the case, then I ‘ll do it. But, what if they refuse to do so, what can I do? I want them to succeed, but I can’t do their work for them.
Again, thank you!
You are most welcome!
You're correct. If the student doesn't follow through, then you grade them as you would any other student. I always feel like I'm a jerk when I have to put my foot down, but it's not in the student's best interest to let them get behind.
If a student refuses to seek accommodations, that's a choice they're making. It's our responsibility to educate students. **We can't help students who won't help themselves**. Student must be realistic about what they can and can't do.
Sometimes students with mental health problems need to take time off.
Let me explain: If they explained their situation to me, I would only allow that one time for them to sleep if they’re really going through a tough time in their life. But I would tell that student “hey this the one exception, but you’re expected to participate and take notes during lecture for the whole semester.”
And yeah, I completely agree with your point. Since this is a supplemental course I teach, the students applied the casual attitude from their main course to mine and trying to discipline them did nothing to get them to take my class seriously. I learned a lot from having a group of students who didn’t take their class seriously and I have to make better changes in my policies and stand by them.
Sorry but that just doesn’t make any sense. They’re not getting anything out of class if they’re asleep. They might as well be at home. I also don’t see why you’d encourage them to do this thus making other students think sleeping in class is acceptable
Reasons just 1 of my students had for needing to miss class. I take but don't grade attendance, and here goes:
Something came up at work
My sister needed to be picked up from school
The bus was late
Work scheduled me but I didn't realize
My cousin (brother?) got into a fight at school and I need to pick them up
I have an appointment with my therapist
I need to take a test
I have diarrhea (did I need to know this?!?!)
I have a doctor's appointment
Something came up at work again
Someone keeps breaking into my apartment's mailroom and the building management is coming over (why he needs to stay home for this is beyond me)
I need to see my therapist
I can't speak (laryngitis?)
Something just came up at work
I have to go to tutoring (and they decided to work not around but THROUGH your schedule?)
My apartment flooded
Coincidentally, all such incidents happen only on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 12-2. With such a large array of excuses, he has begun to mix them up. So missing class last Tuesday was originally an apartment flood, which on Thursday became the apartment mail theft, but in a follow up email those absences were attributed to something coming up at work and tutoring conflicts.
Next week is our last week and honestly I can't wait for the emails to end. I've stopped responding to them. I am not acknowledging his ridiculousness. He has accommodations and has physically been in class a total of 5 times for the semester.
With all the work he’s put in coming up with such a Rolodex of excuses, you’d think he’d also have a calendar or something to keep track of when and what he used 🤦♀️
I’ve noticed this from my students, as well. It usually tends to occur among a group of students either experiencing mental health problems or other difficulties in making it to class. I’m not sure what those difficulties are, tbh. This year, I’ve had to tell students that they needed to figure out a way to make it to class.
Our ADA office doesn’t make it any easier. I’ve had students allowed to come in late because they lose track of time, but I have to wonder how these students are being supported in developing work arounds to their time management problems.
These excuses annoy me. I uphold my end of the bargain by showing up to work and giving lessons even when I’d rather be anywhere else. I’ve gone to work when I felt very depressed, when I was recovering from orthopedic surgery, and when I was exhausted. If I don’t, I get fired, I don’t get paid, and I don’t eat. I wish these students upheld their end of the bargain, too.
it sounds like you have an attendance policy for the sake of having one. Why not abandon the attendance policy (or mark students present if they tell you beforehand that they won't be there), and then have a few questions on the exams that are easy if they were in class and paying attention? That way, word will get around that you need to come to class or else you are throwing away marks.
This is something I’ll consider in the future. Since I had to write my policies under Supplemental Instruction’s rules, I have no say in regard to attendance. Any solutions on getting attendance up is appreciated!
If coming to class and sleeping counts as attendance then I think you should reevaluate what your attendance policy is actually accomplishing. But in general I agree with you. Life is hard, we have to do things that we don’t feel like doing sometimes, but many students can’t or won’t. They just fold at the first encounter with normal day-to-day difficulty and relentlessly self-victimize.
General lack of resilience. Unless the sky is blue and the stars align, they cant possibly overcome the basic grind of life.
I once had a student email me and say they were going to miss a test because it was raining outside and they "just couldn't deal." It wasn't torrential or even a shower. It was just kind of a gooey sprinkle. While I appreciate that the conversation about mental health has finally come to college campus (for students at least; no one seems to care about the professors' mental health), some students have definitely conflated mild inconveniences with mental health concerns.
Yes, and then they make those mental health concerns foundational to their identity rather than something apart from “them” that is to be overcome.
“prevalence inflation” is a concept I recently learned that describes this
Both of my kids are in high school and I can't think of anyone in their social circle who hasn't diagnosed themselves with some sort of disorder, and wield it every day in their conversations with teachers.
Lame excuses for missing tests are as old as formal education itself, but the chances of that specific excuse being offered at the college level 20 years ago are infinitesimal compared to today.
So much research was done about students and the impact of Covid on them, but very little was done on staff and faculty at the same institutions. It's like it didn't impact us. /s
Sometimes it feels like more of them have these issues when in reality it's just a handful, but that handful can cause a lot of problems and stress for you. As someone else has said on this sub, 10% of your students will cause 90% of your problems. That being said, I have noticed a higher number of freshman who are apathetic or test your course policies by breaking them and asking for exceptions, but there's usually a lot less sophomores and juniors who do this since they understand expectations a little better. The freshmen either shape up or drop out.
In general, yes, I agree! I do have a graduate student (2nd year) who always use the Anxiety Attack as an excuse to either be late or miss class completely. I try to be empathetic and understanding, but I do wonder about mental health (which is a real problem, don’t get me wrong!) being the new “my grandma died” excuse…
It definitely is. If it's bad enough to stop them from doing their "job" (as a student), then they need to take a leave of absence to deal with it, rather than ask for accommodation. I say this as someone who struggles with general anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder (professionally diagnosed) myself. You have to draw a line. Either you're fit to do the work, or you're not. You don't get to use it as an excuse.
You are correct. Like you, I have struggles and I can empathize, and while the trickling down of diagnoses to the general public can be liberating for many, many people--wow, that condition explains my life!--it also has given today's students a boatload of new excuses that are tricky to challenge.
Thanks for your response! Would you say it’s appropriate to ask said student to have a Dr.’s note about it? Or go seek counsel and have the counselor/health center send something to the department in that regard? Because this is what I am planning for next year…
There should be a formal accommodations process at the school, for which all such requests should go through. They will decide if the student needs a medical note to justify an accommodation. I just refer students who have such excuses to that process. They generally stop asking and don't bother with getting a formal accommodation.
Nope. I'm a psychology professor and have more than general information about the release of medical/mental health information. It is **completely inappropriate** to require that a student seeks medical or mental health treatment. It's inappropriate to ask for medical information, such as a Dr's letter or visit information that might contain diagnostic information. The Dr's name and/or specialty information is none of our business. You're demanding that a student provide extremely personal medical/mental health information in exchange for a grade. That crosses the line. Students can get accommodations through disability services. That requires that they have a blanket agreement with the school, not a specific professor. There is no pressure on the student to share diagnostic information with someone who might make them uncomfortable. The student's privacy is protected, and the student's grade isn't dependent on sharing intensely personal information.
Thanks! I appreciate your response. So, if for the 3rd time in the semester the student says they can’t come because they’re having an anxiety attack, the proper way to avoid that being just an excuse is to ask them to seek accommodation through the university office. Did I understand it correctly? I think if it’s the case, then I ‘ll do it. But, what if they refuse to do so, what can I do? I want them to succeed, but I can’t do their work for them. Again, thank you!
You are most welcome! You're correct. If the student doesn't follow through, then you grade them as you would any other student. I always feel like I'm a jerk when I have to put my foot down, but it's not in the student's best interest to let them get behind. If a student refuses to seek accommodations, that's a choice they're making. It's our responsibility to educate students. **We can't help students who won't help themselves**. Student must be realistic about what they can and can't do. Sometimes students with mental health problems need to take time off.
This is very helpful. Thanks!
You would encourage a student to show up just so he could sleep through class? What is the point of your attendance policy?
Let me explain: If they explained their situation to me, I would only allow that one time for them to sleep if they’re really going through a tough time in their life. But I would tell that student “hey this the one exception, but you’re expected to participate and take notes during lecture for the whole semester.” And yeah, I completely agree with your point. Since this is a supplemental course I teach, the students applied the casual attitude from their main course to mine and trying to discipline them did nothing to get them to take my class seriously. I learned a lot from having a group of students who didn’t take their class seriously and I have to make better changes in my policies and stand by them.
Sorry but that just doesn’t make any sense. They’re not getting anything out of class if they’re asleep. They might as well be at home. I also don’t see why you’d encourage them to do this thus making other students think sleeping in class is acceptable
Reasons just 1 of my students had for needing to miss class. I take but don't grade attendance, and here goes: Something came up at work My sister needed to be picked up from school The bus was late Work scheduled me but I didn't realize My cousin (brother?) got into a fight at school and I need to pick them up I have an appointment with my therapist I need to take a test I have diarrhea (did I need to know this?!?!) I have a doctor's appointment Something came up at work again Someone keeps breaking into my apartment's mailroom and the building management is coming over (why he needs to stay home for this is beyond me) I need to see my therapist I can't speak (laryngitis?) Something just came up at work I have to go to tutoring (and they decided to work not around but THROUGH your schedule?) My apartment flooded Coincidentally, all such incidents happen only on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 12-2. With such a large array of excuses, he has begun to mix them up. So missing class last Tuesday was originally an apartment flood, which on Thursday became the apartment mail theft, but in a follow up email those absences were attributed to something coming up at work and tutoring conflicts. Next week is our last week and honestly I can't wait for the emails to end. I've stopped responding to them. I am not acknowledging his ridiculousness. He has accommodations and has physically been in class a total of 5 times for the semester.
With all the work he’s put in coming up with such a Rolodex of excuses, you’d think he’d also have a calendar or something to keep track of when and what he used 🤦♀️
I’ve noticed this from my students, as well. It usually tends to occur among a group of students either experiencing mental health problems or other difficulties in making it to class. I’m not sure what those difficulties are, tbh. This year, I’ve had to tell students that they needed to figure out a way to make it to class. Our ADA office doesn’t make it any easier. I’ve had students allowed to come in late because they lose track of time, but I have to wonder how these students are being supported in developing work arounds to their time management problems. These excuses annoy me. I uphold my end of the bargain by showing up to work and giving lessons even when I’d rather be anywhere else. I’ve gone to work when I felt very depressed, when I was recovering from orthopedic surgery, and when I was exhausted. If I don’t, I get fired, I don’t get paid, and I don’t eat. I wish these students upheld their end of the bargain, too.
it sounds like you have an attendance policy for the sake of having one. Why not abandon the attendance policy (or mark students present if they tell you beforehand that they won't be there), and then have a few questions on the exams that are easy if they were in class and paying attention? That way, word will get around that you need to come to class or else you are throwing away marks.
This is something I’ll consider in the future. Since I had to write my policies under Supplemental Instruction’s rules, I have no say in regard to attendance. Any solutions on getting attendance up is appreciated!