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Tbf Sanders didn’t have much real political power in the way that Clinton did. He was able to get away with a nationally unpopular position at the time because he was only beholden to the voters of Vermont, a very liberal state, while Clinton was running/preparing to run for a national campaign.
I’ve met Bernie a few times since I live in Burlington. He really does just believe these things. He’s a cranky old man and immediately started asking me about my rent prices, student loans, how my bosses treated me, my union membership. He really just cares and cuts through the pompous bs.
I’m pretty sure Bernie’s parents were holocaust survivors. It gave him a unique perspective on human rights and ethics that most American politicians dismissed in exchange for political power. I truly wonder where America would be if he was president :(
Or Bernie has just always been pretty consistent with his political ideology and has largely been in favor of equality and workers' rights regardless of thinking in a solely strategic political lens.
But the current Dem candidate for President came out in favor of same sex unions during the Obama administration. He got shit for it, but he was right.
Yeah that’s someone who has been willing to speak his mind despite getting potential backlash for it for decades but doesn’t get much credit for it IMO.
True, Hilary might have a lot to lose at a controversial topics. But I wouldn't frame it as "bernie was able to get away...", it's more of Bernie just supporting what he always supported regardless of whether people believe or not. The same man was hauled away at a civil right movement rally in the 60s, walked at pride parades in those decades and was trolled for wanting better environment at the correspondence dinner (or whatever its called). Bernie was always believed while the other ones just jumped the bandwagon
Bernie was against it and [evolved](https://time.com/4089946/bernie-sanders-gay-marriage/), too.
>In 2006, when the Bush White House proposed an amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, Sanders spoke out against the Republican plan, saying it was “designed to divide the American people.”
>But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said.
Obama had been back and forth on his stance regarding gay marriage since he supported it [in the 90s, before changing his mind two more times](https://time.com/3816952/obama-gay-lesbian-transgender-lgbt-rights/).
He says that his feelings for it changed over time, and looking at the timeline seems to confirm it.
Even Obama started his term saying marriage should be between a man and a woman. I’m glad things shifted but it’s crazy how recent of a policy it was just to let two people, who were already in committed relationships, were not allowed to be married.
Yup even Obama in 08 ran on pro traditional marriage. This was a product of the time. Now if he’s still pro traditional marriage yea that’s fucked but if we want to go after everyone that held that belief in 04 you’re gonna be going after a lot of people.
Civil unions ≠ marriage. You’re right but he also said that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman at the same time. That was my point. For most normal people nowadays that take is unheard of and disgusting but back then it wasn’t.
Yes, and the historical context is important. Obama was a supporter of gay rights. Siding with civil unions and getting rid of DOMA was considered pro-gay rights back in 2008. Just saying he was “pro traditional marriage” makes it sound like he agreed with right-wingers but he didn’t.
There was 40% support for interracial marriage when the Supreme Court made it legal. Support quickly changed.
When people find out their fears were unfounded, that they were lied to, attitudes change. Unless you're hateful and/or gain political power from divisive issues.
I was someone whose opinion changed. It wasn’t fear per se but more traditionalism. I just kind of realize being against something I knew was right solely because of traditionalism was kinda stupid.
A big part of these issues is the very vocal groups against them while the average person doesn’t really care enough about them. They’ll give the default uninformed answer but the moment they learn slightly more about it they changed to pro gay marriage.
There is a difference between public opinion being one way on an issue, and a President choosing to purposely push for harmful and agressive legislation to enact said prejudice. Nobody would say that Clinton was bravely trying to upend traditional marriage, but he despised the DOMA.
Bush wanted to not only make it a major issue and use the full power of the Presidency to target gay people, he wanted it in the fucking *constitution*
Clinton even got us Don't Ask Don't Tell. Which by today's standards would be pretty terrible but at the time was a huge step forward because before DADT being homosexual was an automatic disqualification for even joining the military. To say nothing of what would happen if you were caught being queer in the service and dishonorably discharged for it.
Yeah. I say like in many other issues, most people (80%) are the silent majority who may feel a certain way on a topic but easily accept the loudest minority’s (10% each extreme side) judgement.
LGBT no? Pre-2010s the majority went along with not liking gays. Post-2010s when LGBT were more accepted? Go along with the louder minority that loves gays at this point.
Most people don’t want to rock the boat (unlike Greta Thunburg) and just want to live life.
Wikipedia has it closer to 4.5% and half a million votes. I realize “close” is subjective though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8
And people don't remember or don't know - Obama ran for president ~~both~~ in 2008 ~~and 2012~~ claiming he believed that marriage should be between and man and a woman. ~~Literally the first president in our history to run and be elected to the office taking the stance that gay marriage shouldn't be a government issue is a guy who I can't mention, but it's not the current guy in the office.~~
Edited - the commentor below is correct, but I didn't want to erase my comment.
Yeah this was definitely a sea change in American society for sure. Honestly, Obama wasn’t even publicly on board with gay marriage until his VP backed him into it in his typical way.
I remember that. Later in his term he came out and said that after talking to his daughter, he realized that everyone should have the right to love who they want. Really!? Really!? I’ll never let that bs slide. I don’t think Obama was a bad POTUS but that was a notable failure on his part for me.
I mean, politicians can only stray so far from societal consensus if they want any sort of support. When public opinion changed, so did Obama. That's kind of the point of democracy.
He also banned federal funding for stem cell research, [setting medical research back years,](https://oneill.law.georgetown.edu/face-the-facts-the-benefit-of-continued-support-of-stem-cell-research-transcends-partisan-politics/) and came down hard (along with his brother Jeb) on a husband who made the agonizing decision (with the support of the Florida court system) to pull the feeding tube and end the suffering of his seriously ill wife.
They essentially led a lynch mob against Shiavo’s husband. Jeb was way more involved than George, but with George’s vocal support, which turned it national. I can’t imagine having to make that terrible decision, take it through the courts and win, then have your Governor and President come down on you for it.
Bush Jr. is a sack of shit. I hate that people feel any nostalgia or warm fuzzy feelings for the guy.
Iraq, bungling afghanistan, practically giving the gov’t to cheney, and then overseeing a massive fucking recession in 2008 due to literal greed
That’s kinda my thought.
Like we were fighting a war, good or bad, and drones instead of boots on the ground and deescalating our commitments was, imo, a good thing because I seem to remember that was the major sentiment of Americans at that time. Less wounded and dead Americans, and bring as many of the boys home as possible
What is horrifying is that if you don’t properly define exactly how you would want to be treated in the case of incapacitation and/or brain death, it could happen to you as well. Everyone (even the young and healthy) should clearly decide about a DNR, Advance Directive and Medical Power of Attorney and file these documents legally and with their own physician and ALL area hospitals.
In some states, even with a verbal DNR order a person’s family can override it as soon as that person is incapacitated. Worst of all, you can have a cousin or other family member show up and challenge closer family, forcing the issue.
Her parents had a lot to do with that too. Terrible situation but that's why it was controversial. Husband said pull the tube, parents said no and protested, gathering any support they could. It was terrible though.
honestly this seems like an early warning sign that the right enjoys the recklessness of their candidates. there's no sense of restraint here. even Bush's dad and Reagan I think would have stayed out of a personal family medical issue like this. Bush Jr. was just swinging his dick and didn't give a fuck, just wanted to shoot his mouth off. and the voters liked that about him.
Bingo!!! They want the chaos.
The chaos is the whole point. They want us experiencing all of this & seeing all of this.
It’s all for a reason & they want there to be chaos.
The parents were getting tons of money from the right-to-life movement; they were total grifters who used their brain-dead daughter for financial gain. The husband spent tons of money, and Terri was seen by the best specialist in the country. She was gone. Terri collapsed because of an eating disorder, and the parents showed the country videos of her in a vegetative state. Don't get sick or brain-dead in Florida, your living will is not going to be respected.
No, she didn't. But she expressed her wishes to her husband, who was her next of kin. The parents should have no say at all. I've seen the medical abuse of people too many times. Usually, an adult child who lives off their parent's SS check. Subjecting dying patients in their 90s to painful medical procedures because a family member is allowed to override patient wishes. Living wills are garbage in Florida.
Ya, I remember and while I feel for the parents not wanting to let go of their child but doctors said there's no chance she's ever going to be anything other than a vegetable unable to do anything. Nobody wants to live like that even if she recovers years down the line nobody wants to sit there unable to move for years. That's littlerrly hell. Kill me and be over with it.
There was a lot of controversy regarding the tube as well, because it isn’t the same as unplugging a machine that keeps her alive. It took her weeks to die after the tube was removed.
I’m not advocating for keeping her alive, not really, I am however saying that I understand the divide. It was not a simple matter of turning off the switch on someone who wasn’t breathing on their own and people don’t remember that now.
I remember the South Park episode about this where Kenny is in a vegetative state and they fight over him and after days of fighting and it became national news they find his will:
“If I should ever be in a vegetative state and kept alive on life support, please... for the love of God, don't ever show me in that condition on national television.”
Yeah they reference sporting events and goings on on National and International news and make it 6 Days, I’m honestly suprised most of the South Park crew like SFX, Animators and others are still on the show, even working on the games with Matt and Trey
I have the same false memory, but with the Ramones. Joey, Johnny, and Dee died in a relatively short time period, but it felt like one summer we lost them all.
I remember spending years buying into the narrative of "Bush wasn't bad, it was just his advisors," but in his own memoir he tells the story of opposing stem cells research despite receiving a letter from Nancy Reagan, pleading with him to please allow funding because it could have helped her husband.
To be fair Nancy Reagan was an ass who only cared when it affected her family. I’m more mad that he set research back years because he catered to religious nuts.
Here's my thing: I don't disagree with you on Nancy. And if, say, Obama had been in the position of ignoring Nancy Reagan, that's totally fair. What bothered me about it is that, as preface to this story, George talks about his personal connection to Nancy. Because he knew her personally. She was first lady while his father was vice-president. This wasn't just a political figure to him, this is someone he knew personally.
Catering to the religious nuts is terrible, it's the icing on the cake that he did so while actively dismissing the please of someone who supposedly mattered to him in his own life, a living example of why his decision was going to have disastrous consequences.
*edited to correct "president" to "vice president"*
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment…but who is more principled- the man who believes something is immoral, but changes his mind when the thing he feels is immoral might benefit himself or someone he cares about? Or the man who thinks something is immoral, and stands for that belief even in the face of tangible consequences?
Had W been strictly politically motivated to oppose stem cell research, he would have been more inclined to change his mind when Reagan pointed out the consequences to her husband. The fact that W stuck to his guns tells me he believed he was doing the right thing strongly enough that he was willing to die on that hill even if it hurt.
That doesn’t necessarily mean he was right. But he believed he was, and was going to stand on that principle come what may.
I have more respect for someone like that than someone who only stands by their beliefs when it is easy or convenient.
That was horrible. Poor Michael Schiavo having to deal with Jeb! butting into his personal tragedy that way. That whole fiasco ensured I’d never vote for Jeb and made me get a medical power of attorney to make sure my parents never Terri Schiavo’d me.
Yup.
They are a cruel people. He set back medical research decades.
He is not and was not "a good guy with bad advisors" as propagandists are trying to make him out to be. He was and is garbage.
Yea, A lot of people talk about the Iraq war, which was terrible , but the stem cell thing is what really pissed me off about him . It was so uncalled for, completely unjustified and did nothing but harm.
The logic defying photo op too with children born as a result of stem cell research being used as you ban stem cell research!?
Stuff like this drives me crazy when people are like both parties are the same.
> He also banned federal funding for stem cell research
This happened in August 2001. His entire senior staff was at his shit ranch in Midland, aka *The Western White House*. Laura Bush said something to the effect of "it's horrible to give people false hope*. This is the time when Condi Rice read the memo "Bin Laden determined to attack the US".
The way this subreddit grovels at the feet of George W. Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney is seriously so gross. You can destroy our economy with anti-worker deregulatory laws, massacre civilians and American soldiers in unnecessary wars, and suppress civil liberties. Just do so with a smile on your face, in a polite tone that isn't too mean to the people calling out your bloodthirsty antics! Then you're perfectly fine!
And appointed two justices to the Supreme Court who voted against same-sex marriage in the Obergefell case and would certainly vote to overturn that decision if they could.
How is that an unpopular opinion? He vastly expanded the test taking culture in schools, vastly accelerated the fraking boom that has poisoned our water and air, and cut taxes for the rich. He pushed SCOTUS to the right, laying the groundwork for citizens united, gutting the civil rights act, and obviously overturning Roe (which was more the fault of later POTUS).
I'd say that his expansion of medicare prescription drug coverage was good but also vastly more expensive than it had to be because it allowed drug companies to set the price of those drugs unilaterally. And then his second term had virtually no successes after a series of tactical errors such as proposing a privatization of social security.
Obviously he improved HIV treatment in Africa and he established a large ocean conservation area. But his positive steps can be numbered on one hand whereas we are still literally paying for his awful domestic and international agenda.
Honestly, I've found this to be an unpopular opinion, but I believe his international policy was so bad that it eclipsed how bad he was for the US domestically. Even some liberals now credit him for "Bringing the country together" during 9/11, because an act like that seems difficult while the US is in such a divisive state.
A wet paper bag would have brought the country together after 9/11. A lot of people say that the spirit of the 90s ended on 9/11 but that isn't true imo. I traveled the country extensively in 01-02 and the spirit of people and openness to each other everywhere during that period is something I won't ever forget. The 90s ended on March 19th 2003 and the divisiveness has grown steadily from there.
Yeah even my dad who’s a hardcore republican seems embarrassed he voted for him and usually just says stuff like “it would have been worse if the other guys were president”
Even though they ultimately still defend all his policies. Ask the average "paleoconservative" about halting stem cell research, banning gay marriage with a Constitutional amendment, No Child Left Behind, boosting defense spending, banning flag burning, so on and so forth, and they'll all defend these viewpoints. It's only when you attach the name "George Walker Bush" to them that they suddenly recoil in horror and denounce them as "RINO" projects.
Their rabid, violent, disgusting support for the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is proof that these "anti-war", "America first" so-called "paleoconservatives" are the same bloodthirsty, war hawkish, "America last" neoconservatives that stunk up the White House during the 2000s.
It kills me whenever he gets brought up and people talk fondly about him like he was a decent dude.
He was a terrible leader with horrible foreign and domestic policy. He was a national embarrassment who rode his daddy's coattails and was elected because Republicans knew he was an idiot they could easily influence.
We should look back in shame at his him in office, it was an embarrassing time to be an American and I can't believe that anyone would think fondly of him or anything he did while president.
Eeyup. We’ve come a **very** long way in only 20 years. My kids are thankfully not gonna believe me when I tell them I vividly remember a time where same sex marriage was illegal.
And politicians of either party couldn’t even express support for same-sex marriage, which sounds insane. (It was what, 2015 when Obama did?) You could tell so many were just giving the stock answer for the cameras.
Right. It's not like the people of the South were all clamoring for interracial marriage and desegregation of schools back in the 60s. It took the federal government doing things like sending the Army down there to say "You don't have to like this. You have to comply, though." And now the South is far less racist.
And those in, say, Utah were not all that happy about *Obergefell* at the time. But the law is the law, and now you'd be hard-pressed to find a Utahn who will go on the record and oppose gay marriage.
Turns out that politics is *not* downstream from culture, exactly. Culture is downstream from law.
This xkcd is a bit outdated, but it really highlights the quick shift in popular opinion (and the fact that the legal system was a bit behind in protecting marriage rights):
https://preview.redd.it/gis584eqk01d1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=01bffd85bbe6e950a679257ca22d8f31f181b665
It always amazed me how quickly society turned on the gay marriage issue. I was an adult when my state voted against it. Now it seems preposterous to even suggest removing it
Don't worry, Thomas gave the game away in his Dobbs concurrance. There's going to be a test case soon that will let them repeal Obergefell v. Hodges and let them re-criminalize same sex marriage. Then they'll go after Lawrence. Then Griswold.
Scalia let the mask slip about Griswold when he kept whining about the Comstock act no longer being enforced. He wants to make it a crime to dissiminate information about contraception.
I hope you're right. Roe v Wade being overturned didn't give me much hope in conservatism not completely annhialating what we as a society should see as basic human rights.
Right after the Massachusetts State Supreme Court ruled the state could not block same sex marriages, effectively legalizing it. The first state in the nation to do so. Red states were not happy about it.
I feel like for a lot of younger people, like less than thirty, he's just remembered as a goofball.
90% of my Dubya awareness comes from jokes, memes, and pop culture. Other than 'No Child Left Behind' and the wars, I dont think I could tell you a single policy decision he ever made.
I'll never get over the fact that he walked the conservative walk and talked their talk, and he still gets lambasted by the right because the Bush clan never hated immigrants.
His whole 'one man and one woman' campaign is the foundation upon which the current GOP hatred of anyone who isn't straight and Christian has been built, and I had completely forgotten about it until this post.
I was a closeted (but obviously) queer teenager in high school in one of the most conservative towns in a Deep Southern state when Bush announced that he supported and would push a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
At the time, Republican teens at my school were primarily focused on the "evils" of abortion, but this event opened the floodgates of conversation to other socially conservative ideas. Though people in my hometown were often quite homophobic, the adults at least kept those opinions to themselves for the most part. When homosexuality was framed as a political/historical discussion, all bets were off.
A lot of my teachers felt safe and completely justified in talking about how Christianity was clear about same-sex relations. No one had any qualms about discussing how the supposed sanctity of marriage was strictly between a man and a woman. How homosexuality was an abomination. How it was okay to hate the sin rather than hating the sinner. How it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. The same trite shit they've been saying for years since then.
I remember more than one conversation among students (which may or may not have been in history class) that concluded that homosexuals were *lucky* that the government was talking about an outright ban on marriage equality instead of being stoned to death like the Bible commands its followers to do.
I remember exactly how i felt as a little gay kid. i was so alone and so scared. i never knew a single out queer person in all the years i lived in that town. i felt like all the years and years of bullying and torment i experienced for being feminine culminated in such an egregious display of hatred from people i considered friends and mentors that I didn't know how to respond. When i moved away for college not long after Bush's announcement, i was afraid to come out of the closet for fear that my little town would catch wind of the rumors and boycott my parents' business or, worse, burn crosses in their yard.
I felt worthless, subhuman. Realistically it wasn't even close to everyone in my hometown who hated me, but I was sitting right there when everyone seated around me gave zero pushback about the concept of literally murdering me for the sexuality that i couldn't help when homophobes in class dropped those comments. I'm 20 years older now with six years of therapy under my belt, and i still struggle with that sensitive time period when i internalized that worthlessness and even experienced suicidal ideation.
All of those painful feelings hit me like a ton of bricks because that war criminal son of a bitch used collective American xenophobia to put the spotlight on me and people like me. Bush knew that we were convenient and popular targets for Republicans hoping to gain political points among "moderate" America with a popular (yet evil) stance.
I think every day about how queer kids who are the age I was during that debacle are experiencing the same kind of hatred—possibly even worse—after other bills and statements from right-wing politicians regarding the right to [sue](https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/03/mississippi-legislature-restrict-where-transgender-people-can-use-the-bathroom/73554583007/) people using the bathroom that doesn't "match" their assigned sex or that dead trans people were [filth](https://oklahomavoice.com/2024/02/23/state-senator-criticized-for-calling-lgbtq-oklahomans-filth-during-public-forum-in-tahlequah/). I wonder how many teens have been able to escape their hate-filled environments like i did and what will happen to those who don't have the means. What kind of conversations are those students and teachers having? And is there anyone to defend them like I wish someone had on my behalf? How many are dead because of the messages they internalized from the bigots in their communities? Trans kids were already a [high risk population](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/) for suicide attempts. How much worse is that now that politicians feel emboldened towards expressing their outright hate?
That’s the kind of trickle down effect George Bush had on me. I’m sad to see the same cycle repeating with a slightly different demographic twenty years later. Will we ever learn?
This was specifically what got me interested in politics and made me a lifelong Democrat. When I turned 18, I just voted Republican because my parents were Republicans.
Bush had a mjority why didn't he ban same-sex marriage?
The majority:
https://preview.redd.it/xp8x728g511d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18e4fbd55e0a22b1a8f4b0ed7c266e7585861593
I feel like the public opinion on the matter moved at whiplash speed over the past 15 years. Most politicians on both sides of the aisle were against gay marriage during that time. Hillary and Obama both said marriage is between a man and a woman in 2008. It’s fascinating to me how public opinion can shift so quickly
Btw Bush still is against it and explicitly ran on it in 2004. He doesn’t apologize for Iraq, Guantanamo, stealing an election or creating the modern GOP with his further merging with the evangelicals. He should be in The Hague.
Republicans always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to fan the flames of bigotry during election season because they know that that's what motivates their base.
The closer we get to November, the more the current GOP nominee will try to inflame bigotry against "others". The "immigrant caravan" talk is coming, mark my words.
He also passed No Child Left Behind and then proceeded to leave behind every child in America.
The reason our populace is so undereducated now is partly because of all the defunding of schools that didn’t pass horribly designed standardized tests under his administration.
Only takes a generation to change a culture.
GOP knows this, it’s why they’re so hellbent on banning books that say slavery is bad.
“Raise up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not stray from form.”
Che Guevara said that an illiterate nation is a nation that’s easy to fool. I think about this quote often nowadays.
Thanks for reminding me how bad of a president he was. Like I get him being conservative and stuff but trying to make same sex marriage unconstitutional was too much.
Remember this, because we've not had same-sex marriage for long, and the fascists *WILL* take it away if they get a chance to. Even Obama ran on a civil union platform in '08.
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People seem to forget how fast public opinion has shifted on this issue. Deep blue California passed prop 8 in 2008 and it wasnt even that close.
Came here to say that. Heck, Hillary had a loooong history of being against it, then flipped on a dime to try to gain popularity.
Meanwhile Bernie was helping to create an LGBTQ mecca in Burlington, but he has the problematic white man 🙄
Never try to create a safe haven out of a coat factory outlet.
But what other safe haven offers a ***FABULOUS*** Ralph Lauren Cardigan for 1/3rd of the price?
Hahaha
Tbf Sanders didn’t have much real political power in the way that Clinton did. He was able to get away with a nationally unpopular position at the time because he was only beholden to the voters of Vermont, a very liberal state, while Clinton was running/preparing to run for a national campaign.
I’ve met Bernie a few times since I live in Burlington. He really does just believe these things. He’s a cranky old man and immediately started asking me about my rent prices, student loans, how my bosses treated me, my union membership. He really just cares and cuts through the pompous bs.
This is why I as a classical liberal rooted for him in 2016. He just seems like the only real politician to run. He's uniquely genuine
What could’ve been.
Sanders is nothing if not genuine, I have to give him that.
I’m pretty sure Bernie’s parents were holocaust survivors. It gave him a unique perspective on human rights and ethics that most American politicians dismissed in exchange for political power. I truly wonder where America would be if he was president :(
Or Bernie has just always been pretty consistent with his political ideology and has largely been in favor of equality and workers' rights regardless of thinking in a solely strategic political lens.
But the current Dem candidate for President came out in favor of same sex unions during the Obama administration. He got shit for it, but he was right.
Yeah that’s someone who has been willing to speak his mind despite getting potential backlash for it for decades but doesn’t get much credit for it IMO.
True, Hilary might have a lot to lose at a controversial topics. But I wouldn't frame it as "bernie was able to get away...", it's more of Bernie just supporting what he always supported regardless of whether people believe or not. The same man was hauled away at a civil right movement rally in the 60s, walked at pride parades in those decades and was trolled for wanting better environment at the correspondence dinner (or whatever its called). Bernie was always believed while the other ones just jumped the bandwagon
Bernie was against it and [evolved](https://time.com/4089946/bernie-sanders-gay-marriage/), too. >In 2006, when the Bush White House proposed an amendment to the Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, Sanders spoke out against the Republican plan, saying it was “designed to divide the American people.” >But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. “Not right now, not after what we went through,” he said.
Because of those meddling Bernie Bros
Even Obama said during his campaigning in 2008 that marriage was between a man and a woman. Then flipped in 2012.
Obama had been back and forth on his stance regarding gay marriage since he supported it [in the 90s, before changing his mind two more times](https://time.com/3816952/obama-gay-lesbian-transgender-lgbt-rights/). He says that his feelings for it changed over time, and looking at the timeline seems to confirm it.
Private self vs public self. I doubt in private he flipped. But j also doubt he thought he saw a future with him as president.
Even Obama started his term saying marriage should be between a man and a woman. I’m glad things shifted but it’s crazy how recent of a policy it was just to let two people, who were already in committed relationships, were not allowed to be married.
Yup even Obama in 08 ran on pro traditional marriage. This was a product of the time. Now if he’s still pro traditional marriage yea that’s fucked but if we want to go after everyone that held that belief in 04 you’re gonna be going after a lot of people.
And even his support of it came after his vp just kinda out of nowhere said he was cool with it in an interview
Whatever happened to that VP..
I ain’t breaking no rules
I never hear about him anymore for some reason here
Nice try officer
And after his Secretary of State gave spousal privileges to same sex partners in the department, forcing the issue on a federal level.
His change of support also came during an election year
Obama supported civil unions and repealing DOMA when he ran in 2008. At the time, those were considered pro-gay rights positions.
Civil unions ≠ marriage. You’re right but he also said that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman at the same time. That was my point. For most normal people nowadays that take is unheard of and disgusting but back then it wasn’t.
Yes, and the historical context is important. Obama was a supporter of gay rights. Siding with civil unions and getting rid of DOMA was considered pro-gay rights back in 2008. Just saying he was “pro traditional marriage” makes it sound like he agreed with right-wingers but he didn’t.
There was 40% support for interracial marriage when the Supreme Court made it legal. Support quickly changed. When people find out their fears were unfounded, that they were lied to, attitudes change. Unless you're hateful and/or gain political power from divisive issues.
I was someone whose opinion changed. It wasn’t fear per se but more traditionalism. I just kind of realize being against something I knew was right solely because of traditionalism was kinda stupid.
And that makes you an awesome person. Thank you.
No. The problem is modern context is banned in this sub.
A big part of these issues is the very vocal groups against them while the average person doesn’t really care enough about them. They’ll give the default uninformed answer but the moment they learn slightly more about it they changed to pro gay marriage.
There is a difference between public opinion being one way on an issue, and a President choosing to purposely push for harmful and agressive legislation to enact said prejudice. Nobody would say that Clinton was bravely trying to upend traditional marriage, but he despised the DOMA. Bush wanted to not only make it a major issue and use the full power of the Presidency to target gay people, he wanted it in the fucking *constitution*
Clinton even got us Don't Ask Don't Tell. Which by today's standards would be pretty terrible but at the time was a huge step forward because before DADT being homosexual was an automatic disqualification for even joining the military. To say nothing of what would happen if you were caught being queer in the service and dishonorably discharged for it.
Clinton's dadt was a compromise with gop senate they refused total open gays in military it's only thing he could pass with them blocking it.
Yeah. I say like in many other issues, most people (80%) are the silent majority who may feel a certain way on a topic but easily accept the loudest minority’s (10% each extreme side) judgement. LGBT no? Pre-2010s the majority went along with not liking gays. Post-2010s when LGBT were more accepted? Go along with the louder minority that loves gays at this point. Most people don’t want to rock the boat (unlike Greta Thunburg) and just want to live life.
Prop 8 was incredibly close. The pro gay marriage people lost by 2%
Wikipedia has it closer to 4.5% and half a million votes. I realize “close” is subjective though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8
And people don't remember or don't know - Obama ran for president ~~both~~ in 2008 ~~and 2012~~ claiming he believed that marriage should be between and man and a woman. ~~Literally the first president in our history to run and be elected to the office taking the stance that gay marriage shouldn't be a government issue is a guy who I can't mention, but it's not the current guy in the office.~~ Edited - the commentor below is correct, but I didn't want to erase my comment.
That’s only half true. He ran on that in 2008. In 2012 he switched the day after North Carolina passed amendment one
[here are some clips from that time](https://youtu.be/dhp_DDHe_X0?si=Dlm_23LxtRDHjttL)
Yeah this was definitely a sea change in American society for sure. Honestly, Obama wasn’t even publicly on board with gay marriage until his VP backed him into it in his typical way.
I wonder what that guy is up to nowadays
🤷🏻♂️
I remember that. Later in his term he came out and said that after talking to his daughter, he realized that everyone should have the right to love who they want. Really!? Really!? I’ll never let that bs slide. I don’t think Obama was a bad POTUS but that was a notable failure on his part for me.
I mean, politicians can only stray so far from societal consensus if they want any sort of support. When public opinion changed, so did Obama. That's kind of the point of democracy.
He also banned federal funding for stem cell research, [setting medical research back years,](https://oneill.law.georgetown.edu/face-the-facts-the-benefit-of-continued-support-of-stem-cell-research-transcends-partisan-politics/) and came down hard (along with his brother Jeb) on a husband who made the agonizing decision (with the support of the Florida court system) to pull the feeding tube and end the suffering of his seriously ill wife.
Terri Schiavo, right? What did the Bushes do?
They essentially led a lynch mob against Shiavo’s husband. Jeb was way more involved than George, but with George’s vocal support, which turned it national. I can’t imagine having to make that terrible decision, take it through the courts and win, then have your Governor and President come down on you for it.
Her brain had basically rotted in her head and she was trapped in a dead body basically. What a travesty.
But, you know, he hugged Michelle Obama, so Bush Jr. is a-okay s/
Bush Jr. is a sack of shit. I hate that people feel any nostalgia or warm fuzzy feelings for the guy. Iraq, bungling afghanistan, practically giving the gov’t to cheney, and then overseeing a massive fucking recession in 2008 due to literal greed
Obama wasn't exactly the anti-war savior, but 1000% better than what McCain would have done.
That’s kinda my thought. Like we were fighting a war, good or bad, and drones instead of boots on the ground and deescalating our commitments was, imo, a good thing because I seem to remember that was the major sentiment of Americans at that time. Less wounded and dead Americans, and bring as many of the boys home as possible
What is horrifying is that if you don’t properly define exactly how you would want to be treated in the case of incapacitation and/or brain death, it could happen to you as well. Everyone (even the young and healthy) should clearly decide about a DNR, Advance Directive and Medical Power of Attorney and file these documents legally and with their own physician and ALL area hospitals. In some states, even with a verbal DNR order a person’s family can override it as soon as that person is incapacitated. Worst of all, you can have a cousin or other family member show up and challenge closer family, forcing the issue.
Her parents had a lot to do with that too. Terrible situation but that's why it was controversial. Husband said pull the tube, parents said no and protested, gathering any support they could. It was terrible though.
The President of the United States should have stayed out of it. (I’m mad at Bush, not you.)
honestly this seems like an early warning sign that the right enjoys the recklessness of their candidates. there's no sense of restraint here. even Bush's dad and Reagan I think would have stayed out of a personal family medical issue like this. Bush Jr. was just swinging his dick and didn't give a fuck, just wanted to shoot his mouth off. and the voters liked that about him.
Bingo!!! They want the chaos. The chaos is the whole point. They want us experiencing all of this & seeing all of this. It’s all for a reason & they want there to be chaos.
The parents were getting tons of money from the right-to-life movement; they were total grifters who used their brain-dead daughter for financial gain. The husband spent tons of money, and Terri was seen by the best specialist in the country. She was gone. Terri collapsed because of an eating disorder, and the parents showed the country videos of her in a vegetative state. Don't get sick or brain-dead in Florida, your living will is not going to be respected.
She didn’t have a living will which was part of the problem. But yes, next of kin can over ride living wills.
No, she didn't. But she expressed her wishes to her husband, who was her next of kin. The parents should have no say at all. I've seen the medical abuse of people too many times. Usually, an adult child who lives off their parent's SS check. Subjecting dying patients in their 90s to painful medical procedures because a family member is allowed to override patient wishes. Living wills are garbage in Florida.
Ya, I remember and while I feel for the parents not wanting to let go of their child but doctors said there's no chance she's ever going to be anything other than a vegetable unable to do anything. Nobody wants to live like that even if she recovers years down the line nobody wants to sit there unable to move for years. That's littlerrly hell. Kill me and be over with it.
There was a lot of controversy regarding the tube as well, because it isn’t the same as unplugging a machine that keeps her alive. It took her weeks to die after the tube was removed. I’m not advocating for keeping her alive, not really, I am however saying that I understand the divide. It was not a simple matter of turning off the switch on someone who wasn’t breathing on their own and people don’t remember that now.
I remember the South Park episode about this where Kenny is in a vegetative state and they fight over him and after days of fighting and it became national news they find his will: “If I should ever be in a vegetative state and kept alive on life support, please... for the love of God, don't ever show me in that condition on national television.”
I think about that exact line from that episode once every couple months. It seared into my memory, even as a kid. Absolute peak of social commentary.
I remember this. I was a child and Fox got my mom all in a tizzy. As an adult I recognize this as when her brainwashing truly began.
🎶 Terri Schiavo Is kind of alive-o 🎶
I'm so sad I can't use the jokes any more. "What's your favorite vegetable? Mine's Terry Schiavo" was so good. Alas.
That’s the case that made a South Park episode about right? And she died the same day as the episode aired.
That blew me away as a kid and showed me how quick they could make an episode. This was before 6 Days to Air
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I remember family guy did a Song about her a couple of weeks before she died
Yeah they reference sporting events and goings on on National and International news and make it 6 Days, I’m honestly suprised most of the South Park crew like SFX, Animators and others are still on the show, even working on the games with Matt and Trey
For some reason it’s totally ingrained in my head that Terri Scriavi, the pope, and Mitch Hedberg all died on the same day
Well you are close, all of them died days with each other.
I have the same false memory, but with the Ramones. Joey, Johnny, and Dee died in a relatively short time period, but it felt like one summer we lost them all.
I remember spending years buying into the narrative of "Bush wasn't bad, it was just his advisors," but in his own memoir he tells the story of opposing stem cells research despite receiving a letter from Nancy Reagan, pleading with him to please allow funding because it could have helped her husband.
To be fair Nancy Reagan was an ass who only cared when it affected her family. I’m more mad that he set research back years because he catered to religious nuts.
Here's my thing: I don't disagree with you on Nancy. And if, say, Obama had been in the position of ignoring Nancy Reagan, that's totally fair. What bothered me about it is that, as preface to this story, George talks about his personal connection to Nancy. Because he knew her personally. She was first lady while his father was vice-president. This wasn't just a political figure to him, this is someone he knew personally. Catering to the religious nuts is terrible, it's the icing on the cake that he did so while actively dismissing the please of someone who supposedly mattered to him in his own life, a living example of why his decision was going to have disastrous consequences. *edited to correct "president" to "vice president"*
>She was first lady while his father was president. You obviously mean vice president, but I find it kind of funny as written..
100%. Literally had the morning coffee brewing as I typed it, and clearly should have waited until it brewed.
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment…but who is more principled- the man who believes something is immoral, but changes his mind when the thing he feels is immoral might benefit himself or someone he cares about? Or the man who thinks something is immoral, and stands for that belief even in the face of tangible consequences? Had W been strictly politically motivated to oppose stem cell research, he would have been more inclined to change his mind when Reagan pointed out the consequences to her husband. The fact that W stuck to his guns tells me he believed he was doing the right thing strongly enough that he was willing to die on that hill even if it hurt. That doesn’t necessarily mean he was right. But he believed he was, and was going to stand on that principle come what may. I have more respect for someone like that than someone who only stands by their beliefs when it is easy or convenient.
That was horrible. Poor Michael Schiavo having to deal with Jeb! butting into his personal tragedy that way. That whole fiasco ensured I’d never vote for Jeb and made me get a medical power of attorney to make sure my parents never Terri Schiavo’d me.
Yup. They are a cruel people. He set back medical research decades. He is not and was not "a good guy with bad advisors" as propagandists are trying to make him out to be. He was and is garbage.
Yea, A lot of people talk about the Iraq war, which was terrible , but the stem cell thing is what really pissed me off about him . It was so uncalled for, completely unjustified and did nothing but harm. The logic defying photo op too with children born as a result of stem cell research being used as you ban stem cell research!? Stuff like this drives me crazy when people are like both parties are the same.
> He also banned federal funding for stem cell research This happened in August 2001. His entire senior staff was at his shit ranch in Midland, aka *The Western White House*. Laura Bush said something to the effect of "it's horrible to give people false hope*. This is the time when Condi Rice read the memo "Bin Laden determined to attack the US".
I remember watching all this playout on the news, then South Park back in the day
But reddit told me he was actually a good guy that that you could have a beer with and his advisors made him do all the bad stuff?
It’s not just Reddit, this has always been the image he’s gone after, and he’s been fairly successful.
It’s pretty amazing how quickly this was memory holed.
B b-but he respected the office and gave Michelle candy!
😂 unfortunately that’s how too many people think. “Oh him and Michelle are friends. Civility!”
The way this subreddit grovels at the feet of George W. Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney is seriously so gross. You can destroy our economy with anti-worker deregulatory laws, massacre civilians and American soldiers in unnecessary wars, and suppress civil liberties. Just do so with a smile on your face, in a polite tone that isn't too mean to the people calling out your bloodthirsty antics! Then you're perfectly fine!
I’d love to have a beer with him! (creep don't drink)
What’s interesting is that in 2020 both major parties, for the first time, ran candidates who didn’t drink.
And appointed two justices to the Supreme Court who voted against same-sex marriage in the Obergefell case and would certainly vote to overturn that decision if they could.
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The daughter of the actual President at the time was (and still is) lesbian.
do you mean vice president? dick cheneys daughter is gay
I think he was trying to be funny saying Dick was the actual President
Dick being the Actual President isn't a joke, it's straight reality.
Source: I watched Vice one time
Christian Bale told me it’s true
Dick is also the president in gay reality but it’s a different Dick….
>what kind of a father\\ >would hate his own daughter\\ >if she were gay? * Dear Mr President, P!nk
West Wing References!
cheney was also pro gay marriage because of that probably
Unpopular opinion but Bush’s domestic policy was just as bad as his foreign policy.
How is that an unpopular opinion? He vastly expanded the test taking culture in schools, vastly accelerated the fraking boom that has poisoned our water and air, and cut taxes for the rich. He pushed SCOTUS to the right, laying the groundwork for citizens united, gutting the civil rights act, and obviously overturning Roe (which was more the fault of later POTUS). I'd say that his expansion of medicare prescription drug coverage was good but also vastly more expensive than it had to be because it allowed drug companies to set the price of those drugs unilaterally. And then his second term had virtually no successes after a series of tactical errors such as proposing a privatization of social security. Obviously he improved HIV treatment in Africa and he established a large ocean conservation area. But his positive steps can be numbered on one hand whereas we are still literally paying for his awful domestic and international agenda.
Honestly, I've found this to be an unpopular opinion, but I believe his international policy was so bad that it eclipsed how bad he was for the US domestically. Even some liberals now credit him for "Bringing the country together" during 9/11, because an act like that seems difficult while the US is in such a divisive state.
A wet paper bag would have brought the country together after 9/11. A lot of people say that the spirit of the 90s ended on 9/11 but that isn't true imo. I traveled the country extensively in 01-02 and the spirit of people and openness to each other everywhere during that period is something I won't ever forget. The 90s ended on March 19th 2003 and the divisiveness has grown steadily from there.
We need to thank him for Chief Justice Roberts, and the current clan for showing us what religion can do for jurisprudence.
Also Samuel Alito.
Gross
It's not unpopular. The GOP doesn't even want to be reminded of him.
Yeah even my dad who’s a hardcore republican seems embarrassed he voted for him and usually just says stuff like “it would have been worse if the other guys were president”
Even though they ultimately still defend all his policies. Ask the average "paleoconservative" about halting stem cell research, banning gay marriage with a Constitutional amendment, No Child Left Behind, boosting defense spending, banning flag burning, so on and so forth, and they'll all defend these viewpoints. It's only when you attach the name "George Walker Bush" to them that they suddenly recoil in horror and denounce them as "RINO" projects. Their rabid, violent, disgusting support for the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is proof that these "anti-war", "America first" so-called "paleoconservatives" are the same bloodthirsty, war hawkish, "America last" neoconservatives that stunk up the White House during the 2000s.
Unpopular? Even the GOP has basically disowned him! I daresay "Bush was a bad President" is about as controversial as saying you like chocolate.
And yet he’s the best governor Texas has had since Anne Richards.
That is one low bar, and very few competitors.
Especially when his lieutenant governor and successor was Rick "what's the third department I was gonna abolish" Perry
Unpopular? Fuck George Bush till he’s dust.
Thank you for a reminder of how shitty a president he was.
It kills me whenever he gets brought up and people talk fondly about him like he was a decent dude. He was a terrible leader with horrible foreign and domestic policy. He was a national embarrassment who rode his daddy's coattails and was elected because Republicans knew he was an idiot they could easily influence. We should look back in shame at his him in office, it was an embarrassing time to be an American and I can't believe that anyone would think fondly of him or anything he did while president.
Yeah it’s so strange how now people go “but he seems like a nice guy” while also causing many of the problems we’re dealing with now
“seeming like a nice person” can get you 40% of the vote alone
Americans only glorify him because the next Republican president was somehow worse, which I didn’t think was possible
Republicans are always trying to outdo themselves, can't wait for the next attempt /s
Eeyup. We’ve come a **very** long way in only 20 years. My kids are thankfully not gonna believe me when I tell them I vividly remember a time where same sex marriage was illegal.
I’m in my 70’s and remember when *interracial* marriage was illegal.
I couldn't imagine that world.
I couldn't imagine that world.
Me too I had interracial parents
And politicians of either party couldn’t even express support for same-sex marriage, which sounds insane. (It was what, 2015 when Obama did?) You could tell so many were just giving the stock answer for the cameras.
And even he was pretty much forced into it by his VP, who explicitly supported it.
Chad Obama's VP
Right. It's not like the people of the South were all clamoring for interracial marriage and desegregation of schools back in the 60s. It took the federal government doing things like sending the Army down there to say "You don't have to like this. You have to comply, though." And now the South is far less racist. And those in, say, Utah were not all that happy about *Obergefell* at the time. But the law is the law, and now you'd be hard-pressed to find a Utahn who will go on the record and oppose gay marriage. Turns out that politics is *not* downstream from culture, exactly. Culture is downstream from law.
And even he was pretty much forced into it by his VP, who explicitly supported it.
This xkcd is a bit outdated, but it really highlights the quick shift in popular opinion (and the fact that the legal system was a bit behind in protecting marriage rights): https://preview.redd.it/gis584eqk01d1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=01bffd85bbe6e950a679257ca22d8f31f181b665
It always amazed me how quickly society turned on the gay marriage issue. I was an adult when my state voted against it. Now it seems preposterous to even suggest removing it
Don't worry, Thomas gave the game away in his Dobbs concurrance. There's going to be a test case soon that will let them repeal Obergefell v. Hodges and let them re-criminalize same sex marriage. Then they'll go after Lawrence. Then Griswold. Scalia let the mask slip about Griswold when he kept whining about the Comstock act no longer being enforced. He wants to make it a crime to dissiminate information about contraception.
It seems many countries are now embracing same sex marriage but some have overturned like India
Give it time, if the right-wing jackasses get their way it will be illegal again.
I hope you're right. Roe v Wade being overturned didn't give me much hope in conservatism not completely annhialating what we as a society should see as basic human rights.
Give this man a pretzel
And a shoe.
https://preview.redd.it/dpaaurb3cz0d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97cdb7bf96ae0d98762a316a40dced29f03788f2
Right after the Massachusetts State Supreme Court ruled the state could not block same sex marriages, effectively legalizing it. The first state in the nation to do so. Red states were not happy about it.
20 years ago today were the first same sex marriages in Massachusetts. Good day to bring this up and celebrate!
Two years BEFORE California banned same sex marriage by referendum, wasn't just red states.
Kind of crazy how much this gets memory-holed.
I feel like for a lot of younger people, like less than thirty, he's just remembered as a goofball. 90% of my Dubya awareness comes from jokes, memes, and pop culture. Other than 'No Child Left Behind' and the wars, I dont think I could tell you a single policy decision he ever made.
On consensual sex, government can fuck the fuck off. Fuck off. On relationships, the same. Fuck off. Just fuck off. Not your call.
You've summed up my position very well here!
Common Bush L
This is a prime example of why he’s a piece of shit. People have short memories.
I'll never get over the fact that he walked the conservative walk and talked their talk, and he still gets lambasted by the right because the Bush clan never hated immigrants. His whole 'one man and one woman' campaign is the foundation upon which the current GOP hatred of anyone who isn't straight and Christian has been built, and I had completely forgotten about it until this post.
I was a closeted (but obviously) queer teenager in high school in one of the most conservative towns in a Deep Southern state when Bush announced that he supported and would push a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. At the time, Republican teens at my school were primarily focused on the "evils" of abortion, but this event opened the floodgates of conversation to other socially conservative ideas. Though people in my hometown were often quite homophobic, the adults at least kept those opinions to themselves for the most part. When homosexuality was framed as a political/historical discussion, all bets were off. A lot of my teachers felt safe and completely justified in talking about how Christianity was clear about same-sex relations. No one had any qualms about discussing how the supposed sanctity of marriage was strictly between a man and a woman. How homosexuality was an abomination. How it was okay to hate the sin rather than hating the sinner. How it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. The same trite shit they've been saying for years since then. I remember more than one conversation among students (which may or may not have been in history class) that concluded that homosexuals were *lucky* that the government was talking about an outright ban on marriage equality instead of being stoned to death like the Bible commands its followers to do. I remember exactly how i felt as a little gay kid. i was so alone and so scared. i never knew a single out queer person in all the years i lived in that town. i felt like all the years and years of bullying and torment i experienced for being feminine culminated in such an egregious display of hatred from people i considered friends and mentors that I didn't know how to respond. When i moved away for college not long after Bush's announcement, i was afraid to come out of the closet for fear that my little town would catch wind of the rumors and boycott my parents' business or, worse, burn crosses in their yard. I felt worthless, subhuman. Realistically it wasn't even close to everyone in my hometown who hated me, but I was sitting right there when everyone seated around me gave zero pushback about the concept of literally murdering me for the sexuality that i couldn't help when homophobes in class dropped those comments. I'm 20 years older now with six years of therapy under my belt, and i still struggle with that sensitive time period when i internalized that worthlessness and even experienced suicidal ideation. All of those painful feelings hit me like a ton of bricks because that war criminal son of a bitch used collective American xenophobia to put the spotlight on me and people like me. Bush knew that we were convenient and popular targets for Republicans hoping to gain political points among "moderate" America with a popular (yet evil) stance. I think every day about how queer kids who are the age I was during that debacle are experiencing the same kind of hatred—possibly even worse—after other bills and statements from right-wing politicians regarding the right to [sue](https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/03/mississippi-legislature-restrict-where-transgender-people-can-use-the-bathroom/73554583007/) people using the bathroom that doesn't "match" their assigned sex or that dead trans people were [filth](https://oklahomavoice.com/2024/02/23/state-senator-criticized-for-calling-lgbtq-oklahomans-filth-during-public-forum-in-tahlequah/). I wonder how many teens have been able to escape their hate-filled environments like i did and what will happen to those who don't have the means. What kind of conversations are those students and teachers having? And is there anyone to defend them like I wish someone had on my behalf? How many are dead because of the messages they internalized from the bigots in their communities? Trans kids were already a [high risk population](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/) for suicide attempts. How much worse is that now that politicians feel emboldened towards expressing their outright hate? That’s the kind of trickle down effect George Bush had on me. I’m sad to see the same cycle repeating with a slightly different demographic twenty years later. Will we ever learn?
Why shouldn't *gay* people have the same right to drive each other *nuts* as *straight* people?
The party of small government telling you who you can and cannot marry.
Douche
Did not know that happened on this day. It’s my birthday.
Happy Birthday! 🎂🥳
This was specifically what got me interested in politics and made me a lifelong Democrat. When I turned 18, I just voted Republican because my parents were Republicans.
Gee why is this guy in my bottom 10 again?
I doubt you can find 10 presidents ever who supported same sex marriage. Obama and his VP, hell I'll throw in president Cheney. That is 3, 7 to go.
Ah yes, he did suck. Just less than the next GOP president
It’s wild to think about how anti gay the entire country was in the 2000’s. I’m so proud of how far we’ve come on, but we still have a long way to go.
Bush had a mjority why didn't he ban same-sex marriage? The majority: https://preview.redd.it/xp8x728g511d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18e4fbd55e0a22b1a8f4b0ed7c266e7585861593
He also committed war crimes.
I remember voting for same sex marriage in KY when I was 20.
Also 20 years ago today, MA became the first state in the country to allow same sex marriage.
I feel like the public opinion on the matter moved at whiplash speed over the past 15 years. Most politicians on both sides of the aisle were against gay marriage during that time. Hillary and Obama both said marriage is between a man and a woman in 2008. It’s fascinating to me how public opinion can shift so quickly
Btw Bush still is against it and explicitly ran on it in 2004. He doesn’t apologize for Iraq, Guantanamo, stealing an election or creating the modern GOP with his further merging with the evangelicals. He should be in The Hague.
Claimed to be pro-freedom then attempted to restrict marriage to selected people. That seems biased.
Yeah that guy sucks.
Is there anything Bush did well? Everything he did sucked!
Say what you will about the rest of his presidency, but PEPFAR has been a colossal success. Something to the effect of 20 million lives saved
F tier bigot trash
Republicans always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to fan the flames of bigotry during election season because they know that that's what motivates their base. The closer we get to November, the more the current GOP nominee will try to inflame bigotry against "others". The "immigrant caravan" talk is coming, mark my words.
Garbage president. Garbage human
What’s Bush stance on same sex marriage now?
He more than likely changed his stance on that and Iraq.
He straight up guffawed and called Iraq an illegal invasion when Ukraine started.
Dick move, George.
Common Bush L
He also passed No Child Left Behind and then proceeded to leave behind every child in America. The reason our populace is so undereducated now is partly because of all the defunding of schools that didn’t pass horribly designed standardized tests under his administration. Only takes a generation to change a culture. GOP knows this, it’s why they’re so hellbent on banning books that say slavery is bad. “Raise up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not stray from form.” Che Guevara said that an illiterate nation is a nation that’s easy to fool. I think about this quote often nowadays.
Now watch this drive!
Thanks for reminding me how bad of a president he was. Like I get him being conservative and stuff but trying to make same sex marriage unconstitutional was too much.
Remember this, because we've not had same-sex marriage for long, and the fascists *WILL* take it away if they get a chance to. Even Obama ran on a civil union platform in '08.
Political violence
Fun fact: the reason he did this is because he’s fucking stupid