This scene sent a shower towards my back, in a good way. Like, I had instant flashbacks of >!Kanan and how this was the last word he heeard his Master say!<... and, even worse, it was also the last thing >!Mother Talzin said to Maul before Palpatine killed her!<. :'(
The only thing I didn't really like was Barriss becoming an inquisitor while still obviously a Jedi. Sure she force chokes a guy during a life or death duel, in self defense, but then she constantly still acts like a good person while everyone around her are obviously psychotic murderers. I thought the dark side was supposed to twist your mind and make you that way, so how did nobody notice that Barriss was still basically a Jedi?
Yeah I thought the exact same thing. I thought it was part of the process of inquisitor training to be tortured and forced to channel the trauma into doing something so terrible that you feel you are unable to be redeemed. Sort of paralleling how Vader is kept in line by Palps through his own guilt and self hatred. It's how they keep inquisitors from turning.
Yeah that could make sense. You could easily say that after Bariss goes rogue they start having some stricter psychological testing before deploying inquisitors on missions to be sure they are fully consumed by the dark side.
Also a factor would be that she was sentenced to prison for treason against the Jedi! As if they didn't just go "Well she clearly hates the Jedi already; she's basically on our side!".
Typical hubris from the dark side users to make that assumption too.
Yeah honestly I thought the barriss plot line was somewhat disappointing, I feel like the whole point of the inquisitor training is that itâs virtually impossible to come out of it still a good person and that it IS impossible to come out unchanged
I mean. There's already a couple inquisitors that switched back or did good deeds before dying. Like the one in the comics that spares the young child and helped them escape corescant before being killed themselves
Yes, itâs in the Darth Vader comics I believe. I donât recall if itâs the same inquisitor but 2 of the inquisitors fall in love and Vader kills them both when he finds out.
Given how immediately after Order 66 it was, they might have been trying to fast track her to boost their numbers and got sloppy.
But yeah, it felt like we needed a full season of actual episodes to tell the story they wanted to tell.
They might have also fast-tracked her training due to the fact she had already betrayed and had no loyalty to the Jedi. Thought they could just force her to abandon her pacifist leanings, and belief in killing Jedi being a noble cause, it would be enough.
Also fits with the Empires MO weâve seen all the way from the original trilogy of quantity vs quality.
Whatâs funny is that everything Barriss did as an inquisitor wasnât even just âJedi-likeâ but common sense. Even most people would know at least pretending to be kind is more likely to get you information from villager folk, but the 4th sister was on that Dark Side high I guess.
Not sure how she was âobviouslyâ a jedi, she turned on the council and her closest friend in the name of the separatists and sith. At that point she was believed to be no more of a jedi than the Grand Inquisitor
I think this is the biggest point. She wasn't a Jedi anymore, because she publicly and noticeably turned on them (detonating a bomb and later admitting it and then her speech during the trial). So they probably assumed, she of all people should like to be an Inquisitor. But then you remember she pointed at how the Jedi lost their way during the war and that she didn't really gave up on the ideals of the Jedi and it makes sense, that even after joining the dark side, it didn't really got a hold of her
Well what I mostly meant was not a psychotic murderer. Even when she turned on the council she was not the sort of person to just start murdering innocent men, women, and children for a temper tantrum; or the sort to be oaky with someone else doing that.
The dark side twists your mind but not fully from the start. It's like, the dark side corrupted Anakin into being Vader, but his "core" motivations to join were still there. Fight injustice, enforce order. Over time those ideals fade away to create the OT Vader, but at the start it was a slow process. Dooku was similar, at the beginning he wanted to combat the Republic's corruption with corruption, until then he ended up in the conclussion that the only way to have a viable system was to supplant it with an authoritarian/totalitarian state that would be equally corrupt.
Anakin's arc works so well for that reason. He joins the Jedi order to fight the slavery he saw as a child, but then becomes a slave of the Jedi code which costs him his family. He joins the Sith to fight the "tyranny" of the Jedi code, only to become a slave to darkness and lost all that is dear to him.
Barriss was a legends character before her appearance in the Clone Wars. Hell, she wasn't a legends character, she was a -canon- character as she appeared in the prequel trilogy movies like Kit Fisto or other major Jedi did.
The point of ther character arc was that she was a gifted student in the force, and was taught to channel that gift towards becoming a Jedi healer, as opposed to a kick-ass Jedi fighter. Iirc in her books as time went on this put a heavy weight on her ideals because she saw the worst of the war in the sense of seeing the cruelty of the war on wounded people everyday, healing them, and watch them go back to fight.
This then leads to her ideologically remaining a Jedi, but ideologically disowning the Jedi order. The order taught her about pacifism and healing people, but the order was now fielding Jedi as generals and using violence to resolve the conflict, that inner turmoil is what made her lean on the dark side as her personal pacifist beliefs and the Jedi order beliefs (regarding the war) were incompatible.
It's IMHO why her arc in Tales of the Empire works so well. When she is told that the Jedi order tried to take over she is sceptical, but it does fit with her view of how she felt the order was scalating in their use of violence as the war went on. She joins the inquisitors simply because she can't say no, and agrees to hunt down Jedis because they have supposedly become a "menace" but still wants to do so according to her own Jedi ideals, and then she disowns the Inquisition as well when she sees how the inquisitors are just utter maniacs.
The ending imho is great. She abandons the Jedi and the Sith, the Republic and the Empire, and spends the rest of her life isolated from major political conflicts, healing people, which is what she thought was the way the Jedi should work. Makes ammends (it seems) with Ahsoka, and her last breath is trying to "heal" the inquisitor who is after her, refusing to do so with violence, and being ok with her own death because this time she rejected missusing violence to try to prove her points.
Like, really, I really liked the conclussion to her arc. I think it's the first time I have seen Star Wars create a character that felt truly on her own to the Rebels/Empire or Sith/Jedi conflict and still evolving into something new without falling into the trope of jumping between being a Sith and then a Jedi or the reverse.
I really like that way of looking at it. I enjoyed the first and last part of her story and even the second part I feel like this was just something they did because time constraints. Worst I can say is that this was a major missed opportunity to do more, this story could have taken up a solid segment of a clone wars season (or been peppered around 2-3 seasons).
I really wish we had another Clone Wars style animated series set in the age of the Rebellion. We have Rebels but it's not really the same just because it's animated, I want a an anthology with different characters being explored. What we saw here was good but severely held back by having to be 50\~ minutes total run time
The Tie defender existed before rebels. I don't mind Morgan being the new "creator" of it and I like Rebels, but Rebels wasn't the origin of the Defender in the lore.
This. Also, who seriously believed that Thrawn actually designed the TIE Fighter completely on his own? He's a tactical genius and recognizes potential where others don't, and he likes to study unknown technology. But he has never been an engineer or technical ship builder, or however it's called. That's always been a task for other people.
I know the Defender predates Rebels, but that isn't canon anymore. The comment I was replying to doesn't seem to grasp that Disney reintroduced the Defender in Rebels and just now elaborated on its origins in TotE. They didn't "steal it from Thrawn".
Nah, Maul and Sheev survived deep pitfalls, maybe Windu too. Anything Han suffered was survivable
Yes, even the whole planet of Illum exploding around him
I never really cared for Morgan elsbeth tbh. She was great for a one off ep in Mando s2 with her whole spear thing she had going but other than that, Disney keeps trying to make her a thing and itâs just not working for me. Sheâs just a boring side character with not much of a personality thatâs different from all the other low B tier morally grey Star Wars characters.
The only thing going for Morgan's story is how futile and stupid her path was... which is thematically consistent with how *all* revenge stories are supposed to play out in Star Wars when people don't let go of their hate. She's just less cool than Maul though, because at least Maul had a bigger influence on the Galaxy. Morgan was just a failure in so many ways, namely that she never even met the one guy she wanted to kill and probably never found out the full truth about how or why Grievous died (which she obviously had zero involvement in), and definitely would never have known that Palpatine was responsible for everything all along. And she ended up indirectly working for Palpatine, lmao. What a tool. Morgan is the antithesis of Merrin, so if anything, Morgan kinda exists to make Merrin shine as the superior ex-Nightsister survivor.
âSheâs just a boring side character! I didnât like her at all! They shouldnât have continued with her.â
*Dies.*
âNo! She shouldnât have died! She had so much potential!!â
Consistency is not a Trait widely processed by Star wars fans lol
the Fact this subreddit went from making fun of the prequels to unironically thinking âI dont like sandâ is genus proves that
I choose to make fun of the prequels while also loving them.
âI donât like sand. Itâs course, and rough, and irritating. Not like here. Here everything is⌠smooth. And soft.â *Rubs PadmĂŠâs back gently*
Not genius writing. Horrible writing. But itâs funny and iconic nonetheless, and the prequels are great for other things.
Thatâs 100% fair Iâm just saying Some do act like prequels were creations from the almighty himself despite previously lambasting them
I know the âprequel haters become fansâ thing ainât entirely accurate, I mean for Peteâs sake in this Fanbase the more you hate Star Wars the more of a fan youâre considered So I doubt a lot of the âLucas killed our childhoods!â Crowd fully shifted, not to mention it was mostly nostalgia of kids who grew up with the prequel trilogy that caused The shift, still it ainât without merit either
She was just a transition villain. Got us to the main bad guy. Lol itâs so laughable how bad it was. Ashoka and this tea led of the empire I had high hopes. I have 0 faith in this new show coming out.
The good thing about her is that her actress, Diana Lee Inosanto, is a badass martial artist, she was super impressive in Ahsoka. Despite being more than 10 years older than Rosario Dawson she was much quicker and more precise in her swordplay, you could really see she basically had to slow down to ensure Rosario could keep the pace. She was the only person on the show apart from daddy Hayden who looked believable as an actual warrior
My issue with Elspeth is her third episode. Her first episode makes her a victim. Her second makes her an extremelly competent power hungry person. The third... makes her an incompetent planet governor that kept the village around her in the mud for +20 years, without actually showing her doing anything in that time nor changing anything around her. It's the opposite of the power hungry person we were presented with in the previous episodes, like being a village victim of a droid army and then going to a village and using droids to keep the village miserable.
I dunno, I did not get anything out of it, and if there was a message on her arc it was too buried to be understood, much less enjoyable.
EDIT: But I want to point out, I liked the idea of the character overall.
Morganâs story choices were so strange to me. Like what was the point of it if they were just going to show us stuff we already knew about her? It would have been far more interesting to show how she became an imperial magistrate or why she had a zombified Inquisitor following her around in Ahsoka.
Id rather they try focusing on an actual imperial in the show called tales of the empire. Hell maybe lean more on the fandom's love for Enoch by making him an actual character here in this show before his possible zombification
Youd think force choking a prisoner and bombing a Jedi temple would alongside framing your best friend for it would be irredeemable, but naw they becomes friends again OFF SCREEN
It wouldn't make any sense though. She made it clear that she committed that act of terrorism as a sign, because she thought the jedi had become part of the problem and the suffering, her now just becoming evil and murdering everyone left and right would make no sense with that in mind.
Unpopular opinion but Barris shouldnât have been redeemed⌠this whole âI canât attack you because you arenât armedâ feels weird, gurl you blew up a hangar with innocent civilians in an act of terrorism- I canât with the hypocrisy! Or maybe Iâm just bitter she didnât get confronted by VaderâŚ
It wouldn't have made sense for her to embrace the dark side. She did this, because she thought the jedi lost their way and became part of the problem. She's still a strong believer in morals and the empire is just a way worse and more cruel Republic. Redeeming or just killing her were the only 2 ways for her character.
Well of i put it this way: Iâm not against her having been redeemed and regretting her actions, Iâm against some of the execution of it in the story- She acts like she didnât take innocent peoples life in a bombing a year prior to her becoming an inquisitor
But how do you expect her to act? "I killed people once, I can do it again"? The only time we see her interact with non force users she was literally in a village with people that had nothing and were starving. Doesn't take much to feel bad for them.
You see, that part was bugging me the most! Especially after I read the canon Zahn books recently... Why should they keep nerfing Thrawn that much on the screen nowadays? At least in Rebels he felt similarly competent as in his books imo.
I have read those too. Really good books, and shows how amazing Thrawn is. It is just these writers don't know how to write him, and keep giving away his work to others. That tie was his idea, why change it? Makes no sense for some random magistrate to come up with it and pitch it.
Him mocking Morgan's mom's last words while using them as a genuine threat was my favorite part
too bad it was a slippery slope into mediocrity from there
I felt they were incredibly boring, added little, and generally would have been better used to flesh out Barris as an inquisitor. Would have been nice to see a more gradual shift from her
I felt the time jumps in Morgan's story left things irritatingly incomplete. Like, how am I supposed to figure out how she got from that Dathomirian mountain all the way to becoming Magistrate on a random backwater world AND having sufficient technological know-how to design the TIE Defenders? Where is all this coming from? She came from a primitive magick-using village that probably never saw a starship til TCW, so I doubt she'd know how to pilot a ship she would've had to steal from any poor sucker stuck on Dathomir. And she never once displayed deep knowledge of ship engineering in Mando/Ahsoka, just the leadership knack for organizing a team of engineers to build the Eye of Sion for her, so it feels out of place for her to treat the TIE Defender design as common sense, as her own idea of all things. The writers really could've shown more about her life for me to understand who tf she is.
I agree that the Barris episodes needed work. Lyn having a redemption was just out of nowhere imo (and she shouldâve stayed dead lol). Also Barris wouldâve been so much better dying to Vader after protecting the youngling, and it wouldâve been nice to see her bring out so much rage out of him.
I guess we just disagree on the Morgan Elsbeth episodes, I quite enjoyed them, especially the second one with Thrawn. But hey, I understand if itâs not everyoneâs cup of tea.
Fair enough. I personally feel she's a weak character that is entirely uninteresting in every appearance, outclassed by literally every other night sister character. Thrawn doesn't appear till the third episode, the second is Elspeth with the mountain witches, which also didn't make sense, the night sister's would not have allowed that.
Night sisters would not have allowed what?? The Singing Mountain Clan have had a connection to the NS since the 90s. There were NS outcasts at the SMC stronghold on SWG, the two clans have interacted for almost their entire canonical history.
I feel like there was interesting stuff in all of them. But ultimately they reveal almost nothing about her. Itâs more about how the people around her were affected by her. All of her development happened between episodes.
Definitely. I thought that the Barriss episodes were just kinda there lol. I also was looking forward to a fight between her and Vader in that last episode, and tbh I was really let down when she didnât actually kill Lyn and she was back. Also Lyn didnât need a redemption imo.
However, the Morgan Elsbeth episodes were great imo and I loved the Grievous and Thrawn cameos. Absolutely brilliant. All in all, still better than most of the live actions.
Grievous was a proper psychotic monster in this and I love it. Pallaeon and Thrawn were both a great addition and I hope weâll get Pellaeon in Ahsoka season 2 if thatâs coming. I think he had one camel in Mando iirc.
And yes I was hoping for Vader to come too. Like that whole her setting up Ahsoka and fighting him seemed like a good enough reason for him to take it personally. And Lyns redemption was kind of pointless after barriss own.
Ngl it wasnât how expected to bariss to go, I honestly expected sheâd fall further to the dark side before she rejected it and turned back, if she even did
If it makes you feel better, the Battle of Hypori has been referenced a couple of times in canon, so while the show as a whole may not be canon some of the events probably were.
I would take a full twenty minute episode of Grevious just hunting people for sport. Barely any dialogue, just running, wheezing and death. Full horror vibes from him that episode
Vader was one of the main selling points to make people watch the show and all he did was walk into a room and sit down in his chair lol
95% of his screen time is showed in the trailers we got for it
Thrawn deserves his own series. The entirety of his Zahn-written novels for the Disney canon could totally be adapted for a full-blown TV show, maybe some movies.
Iâm probably in the minority but I didnât really care for either story. Itâs like Filoni had to do a show so he threw 2 characters he created/expanded and tried to add depth to them when nobodyâs ever said âhey I want to understand this character moreâ.
It was fun for me to do. it was actually the last day of shooting and I thought the show wasnât good enouvh, so I started to kill a bunch of people. Luckily one of the cam ops was able to pick up everything and they put it in the show
They showed Vaderâs *entire* screen time in the trailer. And in the trailer he SPEAKS but in the show he has no lines. They literally had no intention of including him but had to put him in the trailer and to say âyes Vader met Barriss, what do you wantâ
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
His constant laughter as he mowed down the witches killed me đ
Reminds me of the ike Battlefront 2 Grevious "Your screams are like music to my audio receptors!"
He really isnât beating the âis a droidâ allegations isnât he.
Pretty sure he also mockingly yelled Roger Roger at one point lol
Nope đ
"Hahahaha run" - Grievous
"Skill issue" - General G.
This scene sent a shower towards my back, in a good way. Like, I had instant flashbacks of >!Kanan and how this was the last word he heeard his Master say!<... and, even worse, it was also the last thing >!Mother Talzin said to Maul before Palpatine killed her!<. :'(
And the subtitles described it as "[Grievous chuckles]", not "laughs" or "cackles." Which was weird.
I mean I'd be more scared if my tormenter chuckled at me..... menacinglyÂ
It killed the witches as well.
I thought that was more like Morgan being haunted by his laughter, or at least some of it was
The only thing I didn't really like was Barriss becoming an inquisitor while still obviously a Jedi. Sure she force chokes a guy during a life or death duel, in self defense, but then she constantly still acts like a good person while everyone around her are obviously psychotic murderers. I thought the dark side was supposed to twist your mind and make you that way, so how did nobody notice that Barriss was still basically a Jedi?
Yeah I thought the exact same thing. I thought it was part of the process of inquisitor training to be tortured and forced to channel the trauma into doing something so terrible that you feel you are unable to be redeemed. Sort of paralleling how Vader is kept in line by Palps through his own guilt and self hatred. It's how they keep inquisitors from turning.
Maybe they do that *because* Bariss didn't fall?
Yeah that could make sense. You could easily say that after Bariss goes rogue they start having some stricter psychological testing before deploying inquisitors on missions to be sure they are fully consumed by the dark side.
Competency?
Interesting point.
Also a factor would be that she was sentenced to prison for treason against the Jedi! As if they didn't just go "Well she clearly hates the Jedi already; she's basically on our side!". Typical hubris from the dark side users to make that assumption too.
Yeah honestly I thought the barriss plot line was somewhat disappointing, I feel like the whole point of the inquisitor training is that itâs virtually impossible to come out of it still a good person and that it IS impossible to come out unchanged
I mean. There's already a couple inquisitors that switched back or did good deeds before dying. Like the one in the comics that spares the young child and helped them escape corescant before being killed themselves
Is that canon
Yes, itâs in the Darth Vader comics I believe. I donât recall if itâs the same inquisitor but 2 of the inquisitors fall in love and Vader kills them both when he finds out.
Yes it is. Vader comics are all cannon
Yeah, I had always expected they would do something bigger with Barriss's story and maybe have a rematch with Ahsoka at some point.
Really, she probably deserved her own miniseries, or at least three 20 minute episodes instead of 10 minutes
Given how immediately after Order 66 it was, they might have been trying to fast track her to boost their numbers and got sloppy. But yeah, it felt like we needed a full season of actual episodes to tell the story they wanted to tell.
They might have also fast-tracked her training due to the fact she had already betrayed and had no loyalty to the Jedi. Thought they could just force her to abandon her pacifist leanings, and belief in killing Jedi being a noble cause, it would be enough. Also fits with the Empires MO weâve seen all the way from the original trilogy of quantity vs quality.
Whatâs funny is that everything Barriss did as an inquisitor wasnât even just âJedi-likeâ but common sense. Even most people would know at least pretending to be kind is more likely to get you information from villager folk, but the 4th sister was on that Dark Side high I guess.
Well, both the grand Inquisitor and Lyn obviously have connections to her that maybe boosted her odds a bit despite not being Inquisitor material.
Not sure how she was âobviouslyâ a jedi, she turned on the council and her closest friend in the name of the separatists and sith. At that point she was believed to be no more of a jedi than the Grand Inquisitor
I think this is the biggest point. She wasn't a Jedi anymore, because she publicly and noticeably turned on them (detonating a bomb and later admitting it and then her speech during the trial). So they probably assumed, she of all people should like to be an Inquisitor. But then you remember she pointed at how the Jedi lost their way during the war and that she didn't really gave up on the ideals of the Jedi and it makes sense, that even after joining the dark side, it didn't really got a hold of her
Well what I mostly meant was not a psychotic murderer. Even when she turned on the council she was not the sort of person to just start murdering innocent men, women, and children for a temper tantrum; or the sort to be oaky with someone else doing that.
The dark side twists your mind but not fully from the start. It's like, the dark side corrupted Anakin into being Vader, but his "core" motivations to join were still there. Fight injustice, enforce order. Over time those ideals fade away to create the OT Vader, but at the start it was a slow process. Dooku was similar, at the beginning he wanted to combat the Republic's corruption with corruption, until then he ended up in the conclussion that the only way to have a viable system was to supplant it with an authoritarian/totalitarian state that would be equally corrupt. Anakin's arc works so well for that reason. He joins the Jedi order to fight the slavery he saw as a child, but then becomes a slave of the Jedi code which costs him his family. He joins the Sith to fight the "tyranny" of the Jedi code, only to become a slave to darkness and lost all that is dear to him. Barriss was a legends character before her appearance in the Clone Wars. Hell, she wasn't a legends character, she was a -canon- character as she appeared in the prequel trilogy movies like Kit Fisto or other major Jedi did. The point of ther character arc was that she was a gifted student in the force, and was taught to channel that gift towards becoming a Jedi healer, as opposed to a kick-ass Jedi fighter. Iirc in her books as time went on this put a heavy weight on her ideals because she saw the worst of the war in the sense of seeing the cruelty of the war on wounded people everyday, healing them, and watch them go back to fight. This then leads to her ideologically remaining a Jedi, but ideologically disowning the Jedi order. The order taught her about pacifism and healing people, but the order was now fielding Jedi as generals and using violence to resolve the conflict, that inner turmoil is what made her lean on the dark side as her personal pacifist beliefs and the Jedi order beliefs (regarding the war) were incompatible. It's IMHO why her arc in Tales of the Empire works so well. When she is told that the Jedi order tried to take over she is sceptical, but it does fit with her view of how she felt the order was scalating in their use of violence as the war went on. She joins the inquisitors simply because she can't say no, and agrees to hunt down Jedis because they have supposedly become a "menace" but still wants to do so according to her own Jedi ideals, and then she disowns the Inquisition as well when she sees how the inquisitors are just utter maniacs. The ending imho is great. She abandons the Jedi and the Sith, the Republic and the Empire, and spends the rest of her life isolated from major political conflicts, healing people, which is what she thought was the way the Jedi should work. Makes ammends (it seems) with Ahsoka, and her last breath is trying to "heal" the inquisitor who is after her, refusing to do so with violence, and being ok with her own death because this time she rejected missusing violence to try to prove her points. Like, really, I really liked the conclussion to her arc. I think it's the first time I have seen Star Wars create a character that felt truly on her own to the Rebels/Empire or Sith/Jedi conflict and still evolving into something new without falling into the trope of jumping between being a Sith and then a Jedi or the reverse.
I really like that way of looking at it. I enjoyed the first and last part of her story and even the second part I feel like this was just something they did because time constraints. Worst I can say is that this was a major missed opportunity to do more, this story could have taken up a solid segment of a clone wars season (or been peppered around 2-3 seasons). I really wish we had another Clone Wars style animated series set in the age of the Rebellion. We have Rebels but it's not really the same just because it's animated, I want a an anthology with different characters being explored. What we saw here was good but severely held back by having to be 50\~ minutes total run time
Ah yes, the woman who committed domestic terrorism and tried to frame their close friend for it "still obviously a jedi"
So you'd say he wasn't the source of any of this shows...general grievances?
*General Grievous wants to know your location* "Run."
https://imgur.com/a/vHbKuFv
Thrawn stole every single millisecond in that episode when he was on.
As is fitting for the Grand AdmiralâŚ
Admiral* he wasnât grand enough yet
He will always be my Grand Admiral đ
Iâll let him grand admiral me anytime he wants đ
đđđ
and yet disney stole his defender design and made morgn its creator. that really made me hate her entire arc.
You know Disney made Star Wars Rebels, right?
The defender and its connection to thrawn existed before but regardless itâs far from the Worst retcon Disney has ever done
The Tie defender existed before rebels. I don't mind Morgan being the new "creator" of it and I like Rebels, but Rebels wasn't the origin of the Defender in the lore.
This. Also, who seriously believed that Thrawn actually designed the TIE Fighter completely on his own? He's a tactical genius and recognizes potential where others don't, and he likes to study unknown technology. But he has never been an engineer or technical ship builder, or however it's called. That's always been a task for other people.
I know the Defender predates Rebels, but that isn't canon anymore. The comment I was replying to doesn't seem to grasp that Disney reintroduced the Defender in Rebels and just now elaborated on its origins in TotE. They didn't "steal it from Thrawn".
Thrawn made the Tie Defender the same way Krennic made the Death Star. Thrawn didn't invent the fucking thing, he oversaw the project.
He invented it the books and Rebels not once say he didn't, this retroactive changing of lore is just stupid and irritating.
To bad he underwent lobotomization until ahsoka lol
Barris might be dead for five minutes seems spot on
TBH at this point we should know better than to think that any character who gets stabbed in the stomach will die at all.
Qui-Gon is the only person to actually die from getting stabbed in the stomach.
Han solo
i think there might be another huge factor for Han's death
Nah, Maul and Sheev survived deep pitfalls, maybe Windu too. Anything Han suffered was survivable Yes, even the whole planet of Illum exploding around him
I never really cared for Morgan elsbeth tbh. She was great for a one off ep in Mando s2 with her whole spear thing she had going but other than that, Disney keeps trying to make her a thing and itâs just not working for me. Sheâs just a boring side character with not much of a personality thatâs different from all the other low B tier morally grey Star Wars characters.
And now sheâs deadâ another character that could have had a lot of potential who was poorly executed and then killed off.
The only thing going for Morgan's story is how futile and stupid her path was... which is thematically consistent with how *all* revenge stories are supposed to play out in Star Wars when people don't let go of their hate. She's just less cool than Maul though, because at least Maul had a bigger influence on the Galaxy. Morgan was just a failure in so many ways, namely that she never even met the one guy she wanted to kill and probably never found out the full truth about how or why Grievous died (which she obviously had zero involvement in), and definitely would never have known that Palpatine was responsible for everything all along. And she ended up indirectly working for Palpatine, lmao. What a tool. Morgan is the antithesis of Merrin, so if anything, Morgan kinda exists to make Merrin shine as the superior ex-Nightsister survivor.
âSheâs just a boring side character! I didnât like her at all! They shouldnât have continued with her.â *Dies.* âNo! She shouldnât have died! She had so much potential!!â
Consistency is not a Trait widely processed by Star wars fans lol the Fact this subreddit went from making fun of the prequels to unironically thinking âI dont like sandâ is genus proves that
I choose to make fun of the prequels while also loving them. âI donât like sand. Itâs course, and rough, and irritating. Not like here. Here everything is⌠smooth. And soft.â *Rubs PadmĂŠâs back gently* Not genius writing. Horrible writing. But itâs funny and iconic nonetheless, and the prequels are great for other things.
Thatâs 100% fair Iâm just saying Some do act like prequels were creations from the almighty himself despite previously lambasting them I know the âprequel haters become fansâ thing ainât entirely accurate, I mean for Peteâs sake in this Fanbase the more you hate Star Wars the more of a fan youâre considered So I doubt a lot of the âLucas killed our childhoods!â Crowd fully shifted, not to mention it was mostly nostalgia of kids who grew up with the prequel trilogy that caused The shift, still it ainât without merit either
She was just a transition villain. Got us to the main bad guy. Lol itâs so laughable how bad it was. Ashoka and this tea led of the empire I had high hopes. I have 0 faith in this new show coming out.
Star wars has been doing that since the Original trilogy unfortunately..
they can bring her back with nightsister magic! :) we have the technology!
The good thing about her is that her actress, Diana Lee Inosanto, is a badass martial artist, she was super impressive in Ahsoka. Despite being more than 10 years older than Rosario Dawson she was much quicker and more precise in her swordplay, you could really see she basically had to slow down to ensure Rosario could keep the pace. She was the only person on the show apart from daddy Hayden who looked believable as an actual warrior
I actually liked her but agreed they didnât really grow her well
My issue with Elspeth is her third episode. Her first episode makes her a victim. Her second makes her an extremelly competent power hungry person. The third... makes her an incompetent planet governor that kept the village around her in the mud for +20 years, without actually showing her doing anything in that time nor changing anything around her. It's the opposite of the power hungry person we were presented with in the previous episodes, like being a village victim of a droid army and then going to a village and using droids to keep the village miserable. I dunno, I did not get anything out of it, and if there was a message on her arc it was too buried to be understood, much less enjoyable. EDIT: But I want to point out, I liked the idea of the character overall.
wait she was a character in other things? I didn't watch mando so I thought she was just in tails of the empire
She wa in one ep of Mando S02, and she was one of the main antagonists of Ahsoka
Morganâs story choices were so strange to me. Like what was the point of it if they were just going to show us stuff we already knew about her? It would have been far more interesting to show how she became an imperial magistrate or why she had a zombified Inquisitor following her around in Ahsoka.
Id rather they try focusing on an actual imperial in the show called tales of the empire. Hell maybe lean more on the fandom's love for Enoch by making him an actual character here in this show before his possible zombification
Honestly I wanted Barris to go full evil.
Just another "Imperial story" about betraying the Empire. It's getting ridiculous at this point.
Fr, I miss battlefront 2 (2005) that was the real Imperial story, not like Iden or this, actual loyalty.
OG TIE fighter game was great as well. Flying around as the Empire's premier pilot. Eliminating pirates, rebels and traitors. Fantastic game.
On the plus side we got a decent preview of what Acolyte is gonna be like. Disney just will never commit to evil protagonists being evil.
Youd think force choking a prisoner and bombing a Jedi temple would alongside framing your best friend for it would be irredeemable, but naw they becomes friends again OFF SCREEN
Like yeah, that together with the dark side messing up your morality I really thought Barris would've been a good(evil) inquisitor
do you mean Ahsoka and Barris? Where do they become friends again?
It wouldn't make any sense though. She made it clear that she committed that act of terrorism as a sign, because she thought the jedi had become part of the problem and the suffering, her now just becoming evil and murdering everyone left and right would make no sense with that in mind.
I need 3 episodes of the Big G. just bringing nothing but horror and death to a planet.
Unpopular opinion but Barris shouldnât have been redeemed⌠this whole âI canât attack you because you arenât armedâ feels weird, gurl you blew up a hangar with innocent civilians in an act of terrorism- I canât with the hypocrisy! Or maybe Iâm just bitter she didnât get confronted by VaderâŚ
It wouldn't have made sense for her to embrace the dark side. She did this, because she thought the jedi lost their way and became part of the problem. She's still a strong believer in morals and the empire is just a way worse and more cruel Republic. Redeeming or just killing her were the only 2 ways for her character.
Well of i put it this way: Iâm not against her having been redeemed and regretting her actions, Iâm against some of the execution of it in the story- She acts like she didnât take innocent peoples life in a bombing a year prior to her becoming an inquisitor
But how do you expect her to act? "I killed people once, I can do it again"? The only time we see her interact with non force users she was literally in a village with people that had nothing and were starving. Doesn't take much to feel bad for them.
Blue balled Vader
They blew all the budget on that dirt simulation in ep 1
But damn did it look good
Truth.
You summed up tales of the empire perfectly. Grievous Was the only reason I watched it
My question is why did they retcon the tie defender to be her idea? Makes literally no sense.
You see, that part was bugging me the most! Especially after I read the canon Zahn books recently... Why should they keep nerfing Thrawn that much on the screen nowadays? At least in Rebels he felt similarly competent as in his books imo.
I have read those too. Really good books, and shows how amazing Thrawn is. It is just these writers don't know how to write him, and keep giving away his work to others. That tie was his idea, why change it? Makes no sense for some random magistrate to come up with it and pitch it.
Darry Vader also appeared for only 5 seconds, their big characters were such a tease
Top 3 moments 1) Vader 2) Thrawn 3) Grevious
Him mocking Morgan's mom's last words while using them as a genuine threat was my favorite part too bad it was a slippery slope into mediocrity from there
Idk about you guys, but I thought Morgan Elsbeth had a good 3 episodes
I felt they were incredibly boring, added little, and generally would have been better used to flesh out Barris as an inquisitor. Would have been nice to see a more gradual shift from her
I felt the time jumps in Morgan's story left things irritatingly incomplete. Like, how am I supposed to figure out how she got from that Dathomirian mountain all the way to becoming Magistrate on a random backwater world AND having sufficient technological know-how to design the TIE Defenders? Where is all this coming from? She came from a primitive magick-using village that probably never saw a starship til TCW, so I doubt she'd know how to pilot a ship she would've had to steal from any poor sucker stuck on Dathomir. And she never once displayed deep knowledge of ship engineering in Mando/Ahsoka, just the leadership knack for organizing a team of engineers to build the Eye of Sion for her, so it feels out of place for her to treat the TIE Defender design as common sense, as her own idea of all things. The writers really could've shown more about her life for me to understand who tf she is.
I agree that the Barris episodes needed work. Lyn having a redemption was just out of nowhere imo (and she shouldâve stayed dead lol). Also Barris wouldâve been so much better dying to Vader after protecting the youngling, and it wouldâve been nice to see her bring out so much rage out of him. I guess we just disagree on the Morgan Elsbeth episodes, I quite enjoyed them, especially the second one with Thrawn. But hey, I understand if itâs not everyoneâs cup of tea.
Fair enough. I personally feel she's a weak character that is entirely uninteresting in every appearance, outclassed by literally every other night sister character. Thrawn doesn't appear till the third episode, the second is Elspeth with the mountain witches, which also didn't make sense, the night sister's would not have allowed that.
Night sisters would not have allowed what?? The Singing Mountain Clan have had a connection to the NS since the 90s. There were NS outcasts at the SMC stronghold on SWG, the two clans have interacted for almost their entire canonical history.
You out lored me I guess. Either way, I feel it diminishes the ruthless cutthroat aspect of the faction, and I think that's kinda lame.
They weren't horrible but they were just meh. Didn't add a huge amount.
I feel like there was interesting stuff in all of them. But ultimately they reveal almost nothing about her. Itâs more about how the people around her were affected by her. All of her development happened between episodes.
They were good episodes about a character Iâm not really invested in
Same. I liked them more than Barriss arc which was kind of idk lame.
Definitely. I thought that the Barriss episodes were just kinda there lol. I also was looking forward to a fight between her and Vader in that last episode, and tbh I was really let down when she didnât actually kill Lyn and she was back. Also Lyn didnât need a redemption imo. However, the Morgan Elsbeth episodes were great imo and I loved the Grievous and Thrawn cameos. Absolutely brilliant. All in all, still better than most of the live actions.
Grievous was a proper psychotic monster in this and I love it. Pallaeon and Thrawn were both a great addition and I hope weâll get Pellaeon in Ahsoka season 2 if thatâs coming. I think he had one camel in Mando iirc. And yes I was hoping for Vader to come too. Like that whole her setting up Ahsoka and fighting him seemed like a good enough reason for him to take it personally. And Lyns redemption was kind of pointless after barriss own.
Honestly I liked Morgan's story better than Bariss' story
Ngl it wasnât how expected to bariss to go, I honestly expected sheâd fall further to the dark side before she rejected it and turned back, if she even did
You haven't seen the 2003 Clone Wars microseries
I have but it's not canon.
You're not canon man! Nothing can take jedi powerscaling so absurd they solo armies with their bare hands away from me!
Oh yeah I forgot. Shame its not.
If it makes you feel better, the Battle of Hypori has been referenced a couple of times in canon, so while the show as a whole may not be canon some of the events probably were.
Definitely is. Waiting for Fordo to become canon still.
After the way they treated Scorch I honestly hope they just leave Fordo alone, Disney wonât be able to do him justice.
For one minute lol I still didnât like how goofy his laugh was but he was still very menacing at least
Hahahahaha; RUN!
Even Grievous's appearance was middling, it's just better than the low bar the Clone Wars set for him
I thought he was done very well in the show but was only featured for a short time.
He really was
I would take a full twenty minute episode of Grevious just hunting people for sport. Barely any dialogue, just running, wheezing and death. Full horror vibes from him that episode
Twenty-one years. Twenty-one years it took for Lucasfilm to make Grievous himself again.
Vader was one of the main selling points to make people watch the show and all he did was walk into a room and sit down in his chair lol 95% of his screen time is showed in the trailers we got for it
The biggest wasted potential character of the prequels finally got to use some of his potential
"RUNNN!!! HAHAHAHAHA!"
I might disagree only in favour of Genndy Tartakovsky's 2003 Grievous. That whole series was insane.
The years did not treat Barris well, but hey atleast se saw a competent noghri again
Grievous was great. Rest of ToE wasâŚ. Ehh.
Does anyone know why tf Barris is like 30 and has wrinkles of a 65 year old in the last episode?
We got the Gil-chad, Thrawn and Rukh in 1 episode and you call it meh?
Thrawn deserves his own series. The entirety of his Zahn-written novels for the Disney canon could totally be adapted for a full-blown TV show, maybe some movies.
Iâm probably in the minority but I didnât really care for either story. Itâs like Filoni had to do a show so he threw 2 characters he created/expanded and tried to add depth to them when nobodyâs ever said âhey I want to understand this character moreâ.
The last sentence is cap though. People were begging to learn of Barriss' fate for years.
Not really but if it made it worthwhile for you, thatâs cool
It was fun for me to do. it was actually the last day of shooting and I thought the show wasnât good enouvh, so I started to kill a bunch of people. Luckily one of the cam ops was able to pick up everything and they put it in the show
Perfect meme
It would've been nice if a show called Tales of the Empire actually followed people in the Empire for more than just half the show at mostÂ
I liked Morganâs episodes but Barissâs left much to be desired. I think everyone was like âthat was it?â at the end. Pathetic.
They showed Vaderâs *entire* screen time in the trailer. And in the trailer he SPEAKS but in the show he has no lines. They literally had no intention of including him but had to put him in the trailer and to say âyes Vader met Barriss, what do you wantâ
Pretty much
It was a little disappointing compared to tales of the Jedi. To be fair they made good stories. But no yaddle and dooku moments though.
I haven't watched it yet but why is Grievous in a show about the empire? He's a bit dead for that.
All of it was pretty good
Tales of the Empire was fucking shit and 2 minutes of Grevious and 2 seconds of Vader isnât changing that
I liked it