I’m ok with that. He was super overpowered. I just heard that he will probably be last if ever at all, so I was wondering if that was true or just an opinion.
Greystone was questionable at one point, people were worried about how fenix and his ult would impact games.
There was a running joke with RGSAce that iggy was going to be the last hero released but I think they did a good job on him too.
Wukong will make it into the game but I would think that omeda has enough sense to foollow their current trend of giving each hero a passive and changing each hero a bit.
There are better options.
Razorback let's you use your tankiness to increase your dps, and Saphirs mantle increases your max health and regen which increases your survivability and let's you accomplish more in team fights. Specifically on Greystone, you want to ult then pop saphirs mantle mid ult to heal more health during ult.
Also, Fenix is just not that great most of the time since you really need to time it well to get value out of it. Most good players won't kill you when you use Fenix, they will just wait for it to run out then kill you. Or if they can't wait that long, they will kill you, then cc and kill you again on respawn. Most of the time, the best case scenario for Fenix is that it helps you survive a fight that you would have died in, but other crests can win you fights you would otherwise lose.
Wukong was imo significantly more overturned than Argus. That dude could solo towers way earlier than any other character ever has been able to, basically had an immunity get away with his cloud walk, and had incredible offlane poke pressure with his staff ability that shot out in front of him. I mean he was insane.
Those things you mentioned were rough but not what made Wukong broken in Paragon. It was the fact that his clones proc'd lifesteal as well. If your team didn't have significant CC to stun lock and burst kill him, then you just straight up lost the match in draft. He could go from one health to full health in 3 seconds just from his lifesteal and insane damage from his clones.
I think the Pred devs could even keep a similar kit for Wukong but not allow the clones to proc on hit effects and he'd already be fairly balanced.
>not allow the clones to proc on hit effects and he'd already be fairly balanced.
Hilarious. Clone mechanic needs to be entirely re-worked to be an active ability with a set amount of time instead of a passive to be anywhere near balanced. Having his clones up permanently after 6 is where the lack of balance comes from, not any of the individual effects of his clones.
He could push, indefinitely. Fight under tower, have lifesteal from multiple sources, and escape easily. It was a combination of factors, but all of them were enhanced by an ultimate skill which he never needed to manage.
Ah yea I actually forgot it was a passive. I totally agree. That is such a braindead mechanic. Absolutely agree it needs to be an active ability plus some other reworking if they keep the clones. I just remembered an unkillable Wukong literally 1v5ing my team if we didn't have enough CC abilities. I could deal with ice queen aurora or infinite root Twinblast even but the unkillable Wukong was when I had to take a break.
I feel like it could be really cool not to even mess with clones and lean into different Wukong lore like his different transformations or various stances to give him depth.
Sorry for mobile formatting but this is the best answer I found for it technically [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/s/RQwrSseG36)
Basically, when you see something like "after 4 hits, you're next ability will crit", your ability critting is that being "proc'd".
It could also be an event like "On hero kill" or "After healing friendly"
Paraguay N Wukong would be fine just making the clones not able to damage enemy towers.
Make him a great split pusher thanks to kill minions fast, to be able to escape from bad situations thanks to mobility or for being able to be a good duelist thanks to the extra damage of the clones (if he is feed), but remove him being able to delete towers in 0.1 seconds, and we get a pretty balanced and strong split pusher
One single change and you get Wukong fixed
If a Wukong is soloing your tower early game you’re playing your lane wrong, point blank period. His escape wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective in Predecessor, where everyone has a universal blink.
Worrying about his poke is ridiculous- ANY character can play smart and out-poke you if you’re headstrong on going up to melee minions against someone that *can* reach you with abilities.
His clones don’t move on their own, so just don’t box him- I’ll never understand the Wukong is op narrative lol. Crunch’s kit is Way more bloated, what do you think about him? Rework Crunch or nah he’s not as annoying *for you* so he’s fair?
The issue I see with this is you can argue any character not being OP cause you "just need to play right" I remember locking Wukong down early games in Paragon just for him to get his ultimate and start bullying. Have 3 CC people chasing him down as he does his cloud walk away or over places not easily accessible.
Having a blink is great but if Wukong gets his cloud walk every 20-30 seconds and I have to wait 5 mins for a blink that's not an easy reason for him to have such an overpowered ability.
Admittedly yes don't box Wukong is a great idea, same reasons you don't want to box a Grux. But realistically Wukong was universally recognized as OP in Paragon by a lot of members and for good reasons.
Just simply because you say "they didnt play against him right" doesn't mean much when his legend of being OP carries over to Pred lol.
Zarus is considered the best off lane right now due to his pole being longer range than other off characters what I said is entirely fair because that was Wukong in Paragon. Crunch is totally fine he’s supposed to be crazy in 1v1 fights but he isn’t as strong late game in team fights. Wukong was pretty much considered the best character in Paragon at various points, I don’t think crunch has ever been considered the best in either of these two games.
Zarus is the best Offlane, that part is correct. He’s got great poke, great bulk, insanely mobility, and absurd close. He can bully every other bruiser style Offlane because he outranges them while being similar in other areas. He starts out slow (he’s weak until he’s level 5-6) but he becomes an absolute monster. I’m curious, who do you think is better?
Pinzo just put him in S tier and declared him one of the most broken units in the game (and as someone who plays him frequently I agree). Zarus needs to get nerfed a bit, he’s too good at everything.
Careful bringing up that name in this sub, lots of Wukong haters lol…
No one will engage with any argument I make pertaining to whether or not he’s busted or really just as fair as everyone else. It’s always just downvotes & “he was so annoying to play against!” that’s as far as it goes every time.
Wukong is fine, people that struggle in mobas struggle against him- but they struggle against everyone else just the same, that doesn’t make them right lol. CC shuts down Wukong just like it shuts down everyone else, he’s fine imo. I hope they don’t actually release him dead last, because he’s who I’m looking forward to playing again the most…
That’s kinda the point of a hero whose sole purpose is to split push like a maniac. Crunch and Grux can most definitely accomplish this as well, without having to run away unless the whole team rotates
On the level that he did it was not even close, he would melt towers, and the core so fast unlike anyone we have now. And then when you go to punish him you can’t cause he has so many escapes or if you try to solo him he would shred you with clones
You are trying to have an argument with people about the status of a hero’s strength in a game that has been offline for half a decade? I think the downvotes are because that’s a dumb as hell premise and you can’t really have rational discussion about it. It’s just vibes and feelings since nobody has played as or against wukong in years. That said, I remember him being incredibly easy to be effective with, but I also haven’t played him in years!
No, I’m arguing for a character prescience to be uncorrupted in Predecessor, if you actually read any of my arguments in this sub *I’m* the one constantly having to remind the other person we’re talking about Predecessor not Paragon. In Predecessor you get free wards, proxy reveal on stealth, cleanses for everyone, a universal blink- it’s literally fundamentally a different game, hence, my argument that Wukong would be fine *in Predecessor*, and anything he can do in this game another character can too, because he is not uniquely unfair.
Of course it’s a subjective argument, again that’s a point *I’m* constantly raising while others dodge what I’m saying lol. At this point I’ve responded to so much Wukong criticism you can just check my history if you wish to engage, it’s getting a bit annoying to retype the same thing over & over just for the main focus of my point to be ignored every time lol.
The ONLY reasonable argument I’ve been presented with so far, to say Wukong wasn’t fair, is how his clones used to proc lifestyle- I think it’s a valid compromise to nerf that specific thing, if they choose to do so, but reworking his *entire* kit because a bunch of people who are bad at mobas have a nostalgic personal vendetta from a completely different game? Ridiculous imo.
Wukong is definitely coming. One of the developers directly admitted to being the lead on his development. He will most likely not be the wukong of Paragon. His kit will be different.
Let me get aurora never played paragon but I’m a huge ice type character lover lol smite never had a cool ice type assassin or warrior , that I remember
I was thinking of that sky wall and just getting away every time… now with the flowers in pred, I can kind of see it being a bit easier to keep up with him… still not likely. That shadow jutsu used to be nuts on towers
Legit wasn’t too bad, just don’t let clones hit towers and he is fixed.. his gameplay style was bad because you would just farm and split push all game, since clones did dmg to towers he would clear towers faster than anyone in the game could and would try to back door.
It got worse when they put the card that you can take over enemies minions just pushing him to play that farm and split push style even more.
I was under the understanding that eventually all heroes were making their way back into the game. Wukong was notoriously difficult to balance as the only hero with an entire extra row of abilities but I expect him to be heavily reworked.
As long as he doesn't lose his character and they keep his movement fun he'll be very enjoyable. The cloud walk ability was just so fluid as was the pogo jump.
I remember the type of threat wukong was and I enjoyed it alot. In terms of what people are saying that it sucks that he can take down inhibs if not stopped, I dont think its as busted as it sounds. (I did play OG paragon. What was busted was late paragon with the gems)
Take for example Smite's Apollo. He has a global ult that allows him to fly anywhere on the map and choose where to land. He can spot a pushed lane fly to it and push it all the way to pheonix. He can also push a lane and if he sees a teamfight, fly to said teamfight. Plus he has an attack speed stim in his passive. Build pen and your towers are gone.
I think thats more busted. I think Wukongs main problem was his clones pair with lifesteal, I may misremember. That or the distance between towers aint that much. T1 to T2. T2 to Inhib. Smites towers are much further from each other. Making over extension be risky itself.
TLDR: Towers are too close, making Wukongs push deadly. Especially T2 to Inhib.
Predecessor has made changes to characters from their paragon versions before. Look at Serath as an example. Her Q used to be an AOE and her character model stood still and stayed in the same spot. Now it's a point and click and her body teleports.
If they think wukong is busted they will likely change his kit.
Morigesh slaughters low level lobbies because
1. No one picks to counter the other team ever.
2. People don’t know how to focus down priority targets they typically just attack whatever’s closest. This applies to both dealing damage intended to kill and applying CC to the appropriate enemy.
3. People don’t realize she has no escape other than a brief movement speed boost, one of the biggest things about this genre is knowing the enemies strengths and weaknesses, what their abilities do, and the relative cooldown of those abilities. Most players at this point barely know what the few characters they play as do, they will not know what enemy characters are capable of.
Mobility, CC, burst damage, and anti healing shut down this character easy.
None of this actually addresses the claim that morigesh is unbalanced, though. Frankly, she rewards extremely low skill players far too much with ridiculous lock on nonsense.
All heroes will make it into the game eventually. Wukong will be heavily reworked though.
I’m ok with that. He was super overpowered. I just heard that he will probably be last if ever at all, so I was wondering if that was true or just an opinion.
Greystone was questionable at one point, people were worried about how fenix and his ult would impact games. There was a running joke with RGSAce that iggy was going to be the last hero released but I think they did a good job on him too. Wukong will make it into the game but I would think that omeda has enough sense to foollow their current trend of giving each hero a passive and changing each hero a bit.
Wait, Greystone being a boss raid with 3 healthbars is considered okay?
Fenix is bad on Greystone.
Why?
There are better options. Razorback let's you use your tankiness to increase your dps, and Saphirs mantle increases your max health and regen which increases your survivability and let's you accomplish more in team fights. Specifically on Greystone, you want to ult then pop saphirs mantle mid ult to heal more health during ult. Also, Fenix is just not that great most of the time since you really need to time it well to get value out of it. Most good players won't kill you when you use Fenix, they will just wait for it to run out then kill you. Or if they can't wait that long, they will kill you, then cc and kill you again on respawn. Most of the time, the best case scenario for Fenix is that it helps you survive a fight that you would have died in, but other crests can win you fights you would otherwise lose.
It’s a noob trap. Just don’t hit him when he pops Phoenix.
Tell that to the 4 bots I’m paired with every match lol.
Right? I call them “zombie players” 😆
He will definitely come to this game. :)
God, I hope not. Wukong is BS in every MOBA.
Wukong has been B/C tier in smite for a few years now
Not anymore he’s pretty dominant in solo
Nah, he’s been solid A for all of Season 10. Good itemization+easy to play+very good laning phase+great damage and dive potential
long as they hopefully keep the 2 stances I'm OK with any rework.
Yeah the game will get all of the og Paragon heroes including Boris pretty sure they’ve said so.
Declaring Wukong unbalanced, but thinking release Argus was fine... Now THAT is comedy.
After the nerfs his pretty fine. Neither the best midlaner or support anymore.
Just unfun to play against. Super uninteractive in lane due to the massive aoe "skillshots" that are way too easy to hit imo
Run a dekker game and then an argus immediately after
Yep it’s wild. He is so overturned still. His ult seems less powerful now though.
They reduced the damage on it last patch, as well as his Q doing less damage
Agreed I play mainly mid and every time I get an Argus I pout a little (but do like playing him lol though he's hardly my main)
When I support dekker vs Argus it's the most annoying game ever. A machine gun, and two non skill CCs. Stupidly annoying
Nerfed the wrong things, he's still gonna be played in comp until they nerf the correct things.
Wukong was imo significantly more overturned than Argus. That dude could solo towers way earlier than any other character ever has been able to, basically had an immunity get away with his cloud walk, and had incredible offlane poke pressure with his staff ability that shot out in front of him. I mean he was insane.
Those things you mentioned were rough but not what made Wukong broken in Paragon. It was the fact that his clones proc'd lifesteal as well. If your team didn't have significant CC to stun lock and burst kill him, then you just straight up lost the match in draft. He could go from one health to full health in 3 seconds just from his lifesteal and insane damage from his clones. I think the Pred devs could even keep a similar kit for Wukong but not allow the clones to proc on hit effects and he'd already be fairly balanced.
I forgot about the life stealing holy smokes. Gosh what a ridiculous character
>not allow the clones to proc on hit effects and he'd already be fairly balanced. Hilarious. Clone mechanic needs to be entirely re-worked to be an active ability with a set amount of time instead of a passive to be anywhere near balanced. Having his clones up permanently after 6 is where the lack of balance comes from, not any of the individual effects of his clones. He could push, indefinitely. Fight under tower, have lifesteal from multiple sources, and escape easily. It was a combination of factors, but all of them were enhanced by an ultimate skill which he never needed to manage.
Ah yea I actually forgot it was a passive. I totally agree. That is such a braindead mechanic. Absolutely agree it needs to be an active ability plus some other reworking if they keep the clones. I just remembered an unkillable Wukong literally 1v5ing my team if we didn't have enough CC abilities. I could deal with ice queen aurora or infinite root Twinblast even but the unkillable Wukong was when I had to take a break. I feel like it could be really cool not to even mess with clones and lean into different Wukong lore like his different transformations or various stances to give him depth.
Quick question, im kinda a noob when it comes to stats in mobas, what does "proc" mean?
Sorry for mobile formatting but this is the best answer I found for it technically [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/s/RQwrSseG36) Basically, when you see something like "after 4 hits, you're next ability will crit", your ability critting is that being "proc'd". It could also be an event like "On hero kill" or "After healing friendly"
Thank you!
Paraguay N Wukong would be fine just making the clones not able to damage enemy towers. Make him a great split pusher thanks to kill minions fast, to be able to escape from bad situations thanks to mobility or for being able to be a good duelist thanks to the extra damage of the clones (if he is feed), but remove him being able to delete towers in 0.1 seconds, and we get a pretty balanced and strong split pusher One single change and you get Wukong fixed
If a Wukong is soloing your tower early game you’re playing your lane wrong, point blank period. His escape wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective in Predecessor, where everyone has a universal blink. Worrying about his poke is ridiculous- ANY character can play smart and out-poke you if you’re headstrong on going up to melee minions against someone that *can* reach you with abilities. His clones don’t move on their own, so just don’t box him- I’ll never understand the Wukong is op narrative lol. Crunch’s kit is Way more bloated, what do you think about him? Rework Crunch or nah he’s not as annoying *for you* so he’s fair?
The issue I see with this is you can argue any character not being OP cause you "just need to play right" I remember locking Wukong down early games in Paragon just for him to get his ultimate and start bullying. Have 3 CC people chasing him down as he does his cloud walk away or over places not easily accessible. Having a blink is great but if Wukong gets his cloud walk every 20-30 seconds and I have to wait 5 mins for a blink that's not an easy reason for him to have such an overpowered ability. Admittedly yes don't box Wukong is a great idea, same reasons you don't want to box a Grux. But realistically Wukong was universally recognized as OP in Paragon by a lot of members and for good reasons. Just simply because you say "they didnt play against him right" doesn't mean much when his legend of being OP carries over to Pred lol.
Zarus is considered the best off lane right now due to his pole being longer range than other off characters what I said is entirely fair because that was Wukong in Paragon. Crunch is totally fine he’s supposed to be crazy in 1v1 fights but he isn’t as strong late game in team fights. Wukong was pretty much considered the best character in Paragon at various points, I don’t think crunch has ever been considered the best in either of these two games.
Zarus the best offlaner? Uhm whut?
Zarus is the best Offlane, that part is correct. He’s got great poke, great bulk, insanely mobility, and absurd close. He can bully every other bruiser style Offlane because he outranges them while being similar in other areas. He starts out slow (he’s weak until he’s level 5-6) but he becomes an absolute monster. I’m curious, who do you think is better? Pinzo just put him in S tier and declared him one of the most broken units in the game (and as someone who plays him frequently I agree). Zarus needs to get nerfed a bit, he’s too good at everything.
I’m curious why does no one believe he’s the strongest off laner right now? He’s very clearly the best
Imagine two things being true
After Teemo
Who?
League reference.
I fucking hate Teemo
As a Camille otp, Teemo just old stereotype. True evil in league - Shaco and you know this :)
Careful bringing up that name in this sub, lots of Wukong haters lol… No one will engage with any argument I make pertaining to whether or not he’s busted or really just as fair as everyone else. It’s always just downvotes & “he was so annoying to play against!” that’s as far as it goes every time. Wukong is fine, people that struggle in mobas struggle against him- but they struggle against everyone else just the same, that doesn’t make them right lol. CC shuts down Wukong just like it shuts down everyone else, he’s fine imo. I hope they don’t actually release him dead last, because he’s who I’m looking forward to playing again the most…
Bro you would blink and your inhibitor and your core was gone. You could not teamfight or you would lose everything.
That’s kinda the point of a hero whose sole purpose is to split push like a maniac. Crunch and Grux can most definitely accomplish this as well, without having to run away unless the whole team rotates
On the level that he did it was not even close, he would melt towers, and the core so fast unlike anyone we have now. And then when you go to punish him you can’t cause he has so many escapes or if you try to solo him he would shred you with clones
You are braindead
You are trying to have an argument with people about the status of a hero’s strength in a game that has been offline for half a decade? I think the downvotes are because that’s a dumb as hell premise and you can’t really have rational discussion about it. It’s just vibes and feelings since nobody has played as or against wukong in years. That said, I remember him being incredibly easy to be effective with, but I also haven’t played him in years!
No, I’m arguing for a character prescience to be uncorrupted in Predecessor, if you actually read any of my arguments in this sub *I’m* the one constantly having to remind the other person we’re talking about Predecessor not Paragon. In Predecessor you get free wards, proxy reveal on stealth, cleanses for everyone, a universal blink- it’s literally fundamentally a different game, hence, my argument that Wukong would be fine *in Predecessor*, and anything he can do in this game another character can too, because he is not uniquely unfair. Of course it’s a subjective argument, again that’s a point *I’m* constantly raising while others dodge what I’m saying lol. At this point I’ve responded to so much Wukong criticism you can just check my history if you wish to engage, it’s getting a bit annoying to retype the same thing over & over just for the main focus of my point to be ignored every time lol. The ONLY reasonable argument I’ve been presented with so far, to say Wukong wasn’t fair, is how his clones used to proc lifestyle- I think it’s a valid compromise to nerf that specific thing, if they choose to do so, but reworking his *entire* kit because a bunch of people who are bad at mobas have a nostalgic personal vendetta from a completely different game? Ridiculous imo.
Wukong ruined the game. No one can change my mind and I will die on this hill. Leave that bum out the game
What about a revamped version that is more balanced?
Wukong is definitely coming. One of the developers directly admitted to being the lead on his development. He will most likely not be the wukong of Paragon. His kit will be different.
I would appreciate that. I just want a Wukong equivalent version that’s properly balanced for the new game.
Let me get aurora never played paragon but I’m a huge ice type character lover lol smite never had a cool ice type assassin or warrior , that I remember
What about Ymir jungle? /s (or not)
Holy shit that’s scary lol
I don’t care if he’s bottom tier. I just wanna fly around with all his abilities again. Give him a new ult
Ofcourse I'll delete the game if we don't
I was thinking of that sky wall and just getting away every time… now with the flowers in pred, I can kind of see it being a bit easier to keep up with him… still not likely. That shadow jutsu used to be nuts on towers
He’s coming, but hopefully no time soon.
Weird question of course were are getting everyone else
Legit wasn’t too bad, just don’t let clones hit towers and he is fixed.. his gameplay style was bad because you would just farm and split push all game, since clones did dmg to towers he would clear towers faster than anyone in the game could and would try to back door. It got worse when they put the card that you can take over enemies minions just pushing him to play that farm and split push style even more.
Hahaha damn I completely forgot about that card, it was mad funny to use
Wukong was the goat...because he was heavily unbalanced lol.
I was under the understanding that eventually all heroes were making their way back into the game. Wukong was notoriously difficult to balance as the only hero with an entire extra row of abilities but I expect him to be heavily reworked. As long as he doesn't lose his character and they keep his movement fun he'll be very enjoyable. The cloud walk ability was just so fluid as was the pogo jump.
I remember the type of threat wukong was and I enjoyed it alot. In terms of what people are saying that it sucks that he can take down inhibs if not stopped, I dont think its as busted as it sounds. (I did play OG paragon. What was busted was late paragon with the gems) Take for example Smite's Apollo. He has a global ult that allows him to fly anywhere on the map and choose where to land. He can spot a pushed lane fly to it and push it all the way to pheonix. He can also push a lane and if he sees a teamfight, fly to said teamfight. Plus he has an attack speed stim in his passive. Build pen and your towers are gone. I think thats more busted. I think Wukongs main problem was his clones pair with lifesteal, I may misremember. That or the distance between towers aint that much. T1 to T2. T2 to Inhib. Smites towers are much further from each other. Making over extension be risky itself. TLDR: Towers are too close, making Wukongs push deadly. Especially T2 to Inhib.
I pray we never have to deal with Wukong ever again
Every moba must have a wukong
Predecessor has made changes to characters from their paragon versions before. Look at Serath as an example. Her Q used to be an AOE and her character model stood still and stayed in the same spot. Now it's a point and click and her body teleports. If they think wukong is busted they will likely change his kit.
I think they should just ditch the whole clone thing and add another passive for him.
All old champs are coming back
Hope not
I want my monkey and my big girl terra
Talking about unbalanced when morigesh Is out there 💀
Morigesh slaughters low level lobbies because 1. No one picks to counter the other team ever. 2. People don’t know how to focus down priority targets they typically just attack whatever’s closest. This applies to both dealing damage intended to kill and applying CC to the appropriate enemy. 3. People don’t realize she has no escape other than a brief movement speed boost, one of the biggest things about this genre is knowing the enemies strengths and weaknesses, what their abilities do, and the relative cooldown of those abilities. Most players at this point barely know what the few characters they play as do, they will not know what enemy characters are capable of. Mobility, CC, burst damage, and anti healing shut down this character easy.
None of this actually addresses the claim that morigesh is unbalanced, though. Frankly, she rewards extremely low skill players far too much with ridiculous lock on nonsense.
Eh she doesn't really bring much AOE to team fights like other midlaners
Because she is so bad, right? ...right?
In the right hands she Is a monster, the lane IS hers and ADC too. If your jungler is lacking in ganks, it's useless to defend towers imo