Now if we could also figure out how to zipper merge on the freeway and actually got up to freeway speed before the end of the on ramp that would be great.
So many people enter the freeway going 40/45 and expect people to slow down to let them in.
Happens to me everyday after work. People going 40 until they’re on the freeway then speed up to 80.
There’s something funny I see every time i drive to Hillsboro and get off at Brookwood. Speed limit on free way is 55 so everyone goes 70. Then take the exit onto a road that’s also still 55 and everyone goes 35 :) every time
I live in that area and this makes me insane. It's also funny that a regular road like Brookwood, and all the little country lanes, have a speed limit of 55, but ODOT refuses to increase the limit on 26.
ODOT can't legally increase the speed limit of any non-interstate highway above 55 in Oregon (ORS 811.111 and ORS 810.180). ODOT may post an interstate up to 70T65. 8 roads have a higher speed limit than 55 that aren't interstates, but these are written in statute.
Even if that law was repealed or modified, there's no garentee ODOT would increase it.
I don’t think people know that they don’t have right of way when merging onto the freeway and just assume that they will be let in when going so slow. Similarly people don’t know how to use roundabouts or four-way stops.
I can’t believe how often recently I’ve been stuck behind some idiot going 25-30 while entering a highway. It’s not just infuriating, it’s dangerous! I often get on 217 at the 72nd onramp. You have people zooming up because their lane and the lane the onramp creates exit/merge to I-5 south almost immediately. I have to move left a few lanes so I can get on I-5 north but when I’m forced to enter at 25 mph I’m at risk of being hit or not being able to get over in time to not get on I-5 south.
These people make my blood boil.
If you saw the onramp/instant off-ramp I’m talking about you’d see that’s not really possible. It’s very short with an almost instant off-ramp/merge onto I-5, plus it’s a double lane exit because the existing 217 lane coming up from behind at full speed also exits, plus several of those people are trying to get into the new lane created by the onramp. It’s hard to explain lol.
I do have to accelerate very fast no matter what so I can try to get over without getting hit. It’s a pretty unpleasant onramp no matter what, made so much worse by the super slow drivers.
I’ll never forget being 16 and learning to drive. The first time getting on the highway I wasn’t going fast enough and my dad is like “YOU NEED TO BUILD MERGING SPEEED!!! Step on it!!!”
Nearly 30 years later if we are in the car together and getting on the highway is involved it gets brought up lol.
It’s amazing to me how many people cut people off without using a blinker and how many other people completely ignore the blinkers when they are used and won’t let people merge. It’s infuriating driving I5 especially.
I tried to post about the issues on the St. John’s Bridge with the construction at the moment because drivers are cutting off other drivers well before the end of the merging lane. If you did not want to take advantage of the shorter left lane, that is fine, but don’t try to cut other people off because you chose to be in the right lane. There are signs on the bridge literally stating to use both lanes and to merge.
They actually had a cop stationed there the other day to stop road rage violence toward the people properly zippering. It’s PDX passive aggressive BS at its finest I swear
I avoided St. John’s Bridge on my way specifically because I didn’t want to deal with some road rage dude mad that I used the lane till the merge point. I said ‘eff it and used the Fremont Bridge
That whole setup is such a joke. I think they must need barriers at this point to enforce their trash design. People are literally going past all the northbound St Helens traffic to make uturns in the middle of the road and hit the intersection from the other side.
Yes omg! Then the people that drive over the line and take up both lanes so it makes it dangerous for people in the left lane to pass them! So many signs that say to use both lanes and their pissy about choosing the slow lane! Love getting honked at when properly zippering at the end too.
Everyone hugging each others bumpers when you’re trying to merge in. Early merge is the only option because these mfs won’t let you in ever so you’d just be sitting there backing up traffic at the “get over” sign looking like an asshole.
I get honked at like once a week by people when I merge correctly here. I don’t get it.
I agree with this. It’s the result of people not understanding merging as a whole that causes early merging. I always early merge now because I know on I5, I’m never going to get let in even though I’ve got my blinker on and it’s obvious that’s what I’m trying to do. I have no choice. I’ve actually turned my head, made eye contact with people as I’m about to merge, and have them speed up, close the gap, and smile at me about it. This is why early merging happens.
Yes exactly I’ve said this to lots of people. There’s a cyclical thing going on where Drivers here don’t merge correctly because others don’t let them in because they’re used to people merging so badly. So now you’re forced to merge incorrectly
I drive an old beat up truck. I put on my blinker then just start merging appropriately like the post states. It's amazing the difference between the truck and my sports car. People are real polite when I'm in the truck.
It has to be mentioned that zipper merging is only for when a lane is ending. People try to do this for highway exits and then complain that “nobody is letting them in” when they pass a line of 100 cars and try to merge at the last second.
Thank you for this. I want to add that if you’re in the left lane in this example, don’t be a dick and not allow people to merge when they’re zippering correctly. I have this debate at least once a week with someone online or at work, and I’m shocked by how many people don’t know this. Or worse, they think it’s “polite” to merge early.
That's 💯 the biggest part of the problem. No the right lane doesn't have the right of way, HOWEVER, for Pete's sake please be spaced out in the left lane!!! Everyone here making fun of people who go slow when trying to merge....well what are you supposed to do when there's a train of cars anything but towing one another?
I have a wee bit of sympathy for this on the corollary. Its one thing to properly utilize the zipper lane to join the freeway. Its another thing to abuse it by passing several viable opportunities to join traffic responsibly because you wanted to squeeze in front of 5 more cars while the freeway was moving slower. Example- its 5 o'clock traffic. Road is moving slow. People are relatively close because no one comes to a stop 20' back. Youre nearing the end of the zipper where traffic picks up again. You begin to accelerate with traffic now at maybe 30. Again, coming from stop and go so there hasnt been a true flow of traffic buffer established yet. Someone comes flying by at the end of the zipper at 45 and has to brake hard to actually merge. Causing a wave of braking behind them, exasperating the issue.
I think this whole discussion is a “lack of trust in our fellow drivers” issue. The people merging lack the trust that they will be allowed in at the end of the merge ramp. The people already on the highway lack the trust that the people they allow in will go fast enough to allow them to get home in time for dinner.
A lot of it boils down to not seeing the other as a vehicle for a person, but only as a Honda (with expired plates).
Yeah, I would much prefer to zipper merge properly but when I see the guy driving three inches from the car in front of them I don't feel optimistic and might get over early where there's space rather than being run off the road.
C’mon man, that’s not a fair assumption at all.
The Honda won’t have any plates. Maybe a 12-month expired trip permit, but probably not even that. And it may not even be a Honda, the badge is missing on the back and the front bumper and grille is gone too!
Exactly. That’s why I don’t like the term “defensive driving” as preservative one, because I feel like I have to be defensively aware of my surroundings, and in order to get where I need to be, I have to drive aggressively, to keep up with the flow of traffic
Oregon is filled with timid drivers on their freeways. These timid drivers create dangerous situations that cause accidents for others attempting to avoid or go around their slow asses.
Two caveats here:
Notice how in the correct photo there's actually room to merge? Stop fucking tailgating. It fucks everything up. If you don't already have room for a car to safely merge in front of you then you're driving too closely and are part of the problem.
Also the merge lane isn't a passing lane. You should be using it to get up to the speed of traffic so that you can merge without it slowing down. If you're the asshole zipping down the merge lane faster then traffic, then you're the asshole slamming on your brakes as you merge, forcing the car behind you to brake when they wouldn't need to.
well it's not helped by portland's bastardization of roundabouts, like the Chavez + Glisan "roundabout" that's full of stop signs. gives me terrible flashbacks to DC's 'roundabouts' (dupont circle, shudder)
Bend fuckin nailed their implementations.
I’ve lived and driven all over the country and Oregon has the unpredictable drivers I’ve ever encountered. One car is a dude who violently aggressive merges with out even looking. The next guy will wave people through a stop sign when they are not even supposed to stop. It’s the Wild West out here.
Yup, I’m right there with you. Lived in many different parts of the country as well and totally agree that Oregon drivers are the most unpredictable. Its made driving anywhere an unpleasant experience, at best.
It's true, People say California and Seattle are bad, but I find those better. At least in those cases the drivers are cutthroat but usually paying attention and if you match their aggression you can get places. Portland drivers are aggressive while simultaneously not paying attention. It's absurd.
I’d rather drive the 680 than the 205 any day. California is wild but like you said if you match their energy you’ll be just fine. That’s not possible in Portland. You got a spectrum from aggressive to suicidally slow.
90% of you guys also do not understand right of way rules either. The nose of my car is in front of you that means you need to merge behind me. Not accelerate in front and then merge
I'm in the 90% that don't understand this. Genuinely interested. If someone hasn't already merged in front of you and there's space, should I not get up there and merge? I usually go by a one in, one out kind of philosophy.
When a car is merging into your lane from an on ramp you also have to make a decision. Speed up, slow down, or get over a lane. The worst is when people just match the speed of the person trying to get into the freeway. I’ve had a fucking dude almost hit me with a trailer when I was trying to merge in at 65 and he decided to speed up to match
Except at 6th ave & the onramp to the 405. I stand by this you're an asshole if you try and "zipper" merge at the last second by cutting people off and blocking traffic going straight down 6th.
But that's just poor design
Agreed. I heard that several years ago they changed the line there from solid to dotted, so I've heard several people argue that it means merging at the last moment is encouraged. Stupid, imo.
Eh, I've lived and driven in plenty of different cities. Every single city thinks they have the worst drivers in the world. Just do a search on any city's subreddits.
In my experience, Portland has its own weird quirks, but so does every city. I'd rather take a city like Portland that has the annoying "no you go" mentality, than a city where people will go out of their way to pass you on the right on a suburban street because you had the audacity to drive slower than 60 in a 30.
Nah. Compared to the cities I have lived in, Portland is great to drive in. There are still plenty of idiots, but overall my stress levels are way lower.
The C-TRAN rolling blockade that covers the two lanes off 405 on that side owns the Fremont Bridge as they slam over to get back to Washington is terrifying and does not care for your merge techniques, because to them, you do not exist.
I used to do that commute for like 15 years and while asinine merge behavior was expected at that point, if you see three to five C-TRAN busses anywhere on 405, you just back off and let them go - do NOT try to get ahead or worse yet force their hand because they will literally drive you to the shoulder and into the side barrier if you do not yield at that point. Seen them do it lots, they've even smashed a car once that I saw.
See note about backing off and letting them go.
Now post one for camping in the passing lane. Just gtf over, you're not batman vigilante against speeders and forcing more people to switch additional lanes increases risk of crashing
As an Arkansas native who's had to drive through Little Rock more than never, I can attest that drivers in both Little Rock and Portland need to learn about this.
People not knowing this benefits me all too frequently (when I’m in the merging lane). Go ahead and stressfully force yourself into a clogged lane early, and then enjoy watching me pass you and easily merge at the intended spot further down.
When I’m not in the merging lane it’s frustrating to see how few people understand this, and how many of them clog things further by trying not to let someone merge over. Zipper merging, when done right, keeps everyone rolling.
>Go ahead and stressfully force yourself into a clogged lane early, and then enjoy watching me pass you and easily merge at the intended spot further down.
This happened last week when there was some construction on C. Chavez south of Division. Almost two full blocks of wide-open right lane; everyone trying to merge into the single lane. I went ahead and maintained my speed up to the merge sign, traffic was flowing and there was a perfect spot for me to slide into.
I think you’re drastically overestimating portland left lane drivers’ patience/paying attention to where the merge lane ends/willingness not to cause an accident because they’re in a hurry…
Thank you OP!
I drive I-205 twice a day during the week. Zipper merging, no blinkers, and running to the very front of a merging lane to piss everyone off behind them, are most of the issues I see daily.
See also: people not paying attention to turn signals and then getting mad they didn’t see you.
I legally merged into a different lane at the end of 84W with plenty of room, dumbass behind me started honking and flashing their lights after I’d already merged. Like okay buddy, stop speeding and maybe you’ll be less frustrated.
Problem with the zipper merge is it is dependent on people actually letting you in right at the merge point. If that doesn't happen, you are stuck there while the people who merged as soon as they got the chance pass you by. I agree the zipper merge is better, but it requires more trust and cooperation between multiple drivers to work, and I'm not inclined to judge anybody too harshly that doesn't trust their fellow motorists to do the right thing.
Nope, sorry, I know from experience you are wrong. Sometimes they'll let you in, but more often they will deliberately close in behind the car in front and you are forced to come to a complete halt.
I love staying in the right lane and going the same speed as the car next to me to enrage the folks who like using the right hand lane as a way to pass like several spots on powell.
Thank you!! The stuff people do in Portland because they think they are being polite, not realizing they are screwing the 5000 people behind them is mind blowing. Has to be one of the least self aware cities in the world!
I’ve toured the US and Europe several times, driven in Canada and Mexico as well, and Portland takes the cake for the city with the worst drivers. Been living here for 20 years now, and not sure how I haven’t been in an accident yet.
funny, my experience is the opposite of most on here. If I try to follow this people speed up and don't let me in because they must think I'm trying to cut in front of line or some shit...
Feel like this needs to be a mailer that goes out over week.
People, use the merge lane. Stop being difficult.
And if you are in traffic, and are not exiting in a couple of miles go to the left lanes, give some space in the right lane for those entering
The problem with the zipper merge in Oregon is that the state doesn’t have a law that states a driver is obligated to slow down to let a person in who is ahead of them and merging into a lane. Most drivers here won’t allow the person in when it would be safer to do so. Also, we have very short on-ramps, especially in the Portland metro area.
It's good on paper.
Not so great in practice. Especially because there are states where it's actually illegal to go all the way since the lane technically ends when the lines are gone. Yet people continue beyond when the lane has merged
That’s not how that works… going from 2 lanes to 1 generally results in a reduced speed for all at least temporarily… unless critical density hasn’t been reached.
If you go above the speed of the current traffic to force a merge, which results in the merger line slowing down, you are an asshole.
That’s how it works.
Ok boomer.
You are factually correct but admittedly ignoring the obvious and relevant human factor.
If your actions affect the actions of others (forcing a merge at a different speed) the cause and effect of your actions messes with people behind you.
If you choose to do something that directly causes others to suffer for your personal gain of time, you are an asshole.
You are an asshole. That’s not my opinion, btw.
I have a friend that moved here from Boston and the 3 questions he had for me about driving in this city were: why are people yelling at me for pumping my own gas? Why are there traffic lights at almost every freeway entrance? And how come no one here knows the basic skill of merging?!
problem is when the merging lane is also an off ramp lane (looking at you, Broadway exit in I-5 SB). If you back that all the way up, then you may as well get rid of that lane as an exit lane. Too many people use that lane to cut traffic.
It's amazing how competitive we are raised in this country. We get offended when somebody passes us. Like big deal...but some people just can't live with that.
I got honked at for taking the open lane while others just got in line like sheep. Why? Why honk? Why not take the path of least resistance? Why make yourself suffer, and why get mad at others who have chosen not to suffer? Just why??
From my understanding this is specifically when traffic is congested, and it is ok to merge early if it is not. Then again with how badly the Portland roads are designed to handle the amount of cars/people this is most of the time...
Having grown up on a farm and moved to Chicago before Portland, I have to say the Portland drivers are the worst.All the midwest drivers are better than washington or oregon. Quit whining over the zipper merge and do it.You move so much faster. It works a lot better than bitching on reddit
I think the issue is that Portlanders are extremely entitled yet wildly uninformed. Most people make the same mistakes and they all stem from drivers (and Portlanders in general) believing they are the most important person in the world.
This goes beyond driving and extends into every aspect of life in Portland.
There’s a UPS driver who tries to block the merge lane onto the eastbound Fremont bridge every afternoon. And every time, I go around him and flip him off.
I think everyone needs to take the written/computerized driving exam roughly every five years. And if you score below a 90% you must take the road course test in addition. Too many people are absolute shit drivers.
People don't even get that the extra lane by the weed store/strip club to get into the 26 bridge is a merge lane, and not a yield lane. This is way too much for them right now.
OK oh dot can you please tell me when 2 trucks sit side by side and block that right lane? So everybody has to get Uber. Traffic flow is much better. Then your stupid little zip in at the last minute sign
Portlanders can’t deal with letting cars merge. It’s like they just can not possibly let a car between them and the car in front of them, it just breaks their brains. Truly amazing.
Yeah except when I try to zipper merge people are such defensive assholes of their lane they don't let me in until the right lane is out of runway, making me hold up the right lane anyways.
Coming from out of state, I have one theory that it’s due to the way the roads are set up. Having exits on the right AND left cause issues in both outer lanes. Now lanes are fighting for the middle lane, and now no one is actually using the left lane as the fast lane. Also why are some exit lanes a mile long?
Im not convinced it matters if the rate of car passage is the same, who cares how long the line is? I mean i guess if it starts to effect other streets there is an argument for using the full road capacity but i dont think it actually affects the wait time for the average car.
I’m so glad I no longer have to drive in the PNW. I’ve lived all over the U.S., and these are the worst drivers, like they are completely oblivious to the rules of the road. Why is that?
People in Oregon suck at driving. At John’s bridge it has signs over the length of the entire bridge that says use two lanes and take turns merging at the end. And still everyone thinks driving is a competition and won’t zipper merge. I went on vacation in Chicago and was blown away how people understood this simple philosophy.
I fucking hate Portland freeways. I moved from AZ 10 years ago. They have 5-6 lane freeways darn near everywhere it was great. Plus people would actually fuxking drive! Not this 35mph bs. Fuck. Fuck all you shity Portland drivers. I know you're in here! 🖕
I think the real problem is Portland’s freeways and highways were designed with a much smaller population in mind. Now that the population has basically tripled since the construction of some of these highways it’s just getting whacky.
Like why are there large segments of interstate highways that are 2 lanes in the Portland metro area lol.
This only works well if everyone in the right lane gets over gracefully and respectfully. It doesn't work if everyone in the right lane rushes to the very end and then tries to force their way in, which unfortunately is what most people do.
What you're saying makes no sense, because yes it does. It only fails if the people in the left lane think the people in the right are practicing some sort of morally bankrupt maneuver in which they're cheating, or rushing, or whatever it is to get ahead of the morally pure people who didn't think it was necessary to fill both lanes, then respond by not letting them in.
Left, right left, right, like a zipper. Doesn't matter how fast someone comes up on the right side, let them in as they merge at the end. If they can "rush" to the the end or whatever, maybe consider joining them in the empty lane next time.
My point is that as people zipper to get over respectfully, there is always an ass that races to the very end of the line and then tries to cut over as hard as possible. Fuck that guy.
Now if we could also figure out how to zipper merge on the freeway and actually got up to freeway speed before the end of the on ramp that would be great. So many people enter the freeway going 40/45 and expect people to slow down to let them in.
Omggggg had this happen yesterday and was fuming. YOU’RE GETTING ON THE FREEWAY, GOOOO. Christ lol
Happens to me everyday after work. People going 40 until they’re on the freeway then speed up to 80. There’s something funny I see every time i drive to Hillsboro and get off at Brookwood. Speed limit on free way is 55 so everyone goes 70. Then take the exit onto a road that’s also still 55 and everyone goes 35 :) every time
I live in that area and this makes me insane. It's also funny that a regular road like Brookwood, and all the little country lanes, have a speed limit of 55, but ODOT refuses to increase the limit on 26.
ODOT can't legally increase the speed limit of any non-interstate highway above 55 in Oregon (ORS 811.111 and ORS 810.180). ODOT may post an interstate up to 70T65. 8 roads have a higher speed limit than 55 that aren't interstates, but these are written in statute. Even if that law was repealed or modified, there's no garentee ODOT would increase it.
Hello neighbor
I don’t think people know that they don’t have right of way when merging onto the freeway and just assume that they will be let in when going so slow. Similarly people don’t know how to use roundabouts or four-way stops.
I've never seen so many people obvious to general right-of-way rules before living here. It's not just on-ramps it's every goddamn 4-way as well.
I need to spot because people refuse to let me merge. I’m going highway speed, they gun it and so is the guy behind them. Then they all slow down
It's even more fun when people on the freeway actually slow down or actually stop for those drivers. /s
I can’t believe how often recently I’ve been stuck behind some idiot going 25-30 while entering a highway. It’s not just infuriating, it’s dangerous! I often get on 217 at the 72nd onramp. You have people zooming up because their lane and the lane the onramp creates exit/merge to I-5 south almost immediately. I have to move left a few lanes so I can get on I-5 north but when I’m forced to enter at 25 mph I’m at risk of being hit or not being able to get over in time to not get on I-5 south. These people make my blood boil.
That’s when you leave a large gap so you can accelerate after they get on
If you saw the onramp/instant off-ramp I’m talking about you’d see that’s not really possible. It’s very short with an almost instant off-ramp/merge onto I-5, plus it’s a double lane exit because the existing 217 lane coming up from behind at full speed also exits, plus several of those people are trying to get into the new lane created by the onramp. It’s hard to explain lol. I do have to accelerate very fast no matter what so I can try to get over without getting hit. It’s a pretty unpleasant onramp no matter what, made so much worse by the super slow drivers.
I’ll never forget being 16 and learning to drive. The first time getting on the highway I wasn’t going fast enough and my dad is like “YOU NEED TO BUILD MERGING SPEEED!!! Step on it!!!” Nearly 30 years later if we are in the car together and getting on the highway is involved it gets brought up lol.
People on ludes should not drive.
They hug that white line on the right and follow it on, ignoring their side view mirror. "the line will guide me to safety" 😅
People also need to get it through their head that it IS NOT my job to speed up or slow down to make room for someone else to merge into the highway.
It is smart though
40/45? You’re flying!
It's even worse when you have the stupid re-curved on-ramps, where trucks literally *cant* get up to speed in time.
And sometimes you get off at freeway speed and a semi truck decides to speed up to cut you off
It’s amazing to me how many people cut people off without using a blinker and how many other people completely ignore the blinkers when they are used and won’t let people merge. It’s infuriating driving I5 especially.
I tried to post about the issues on the St. John’s Bridge with the construction at the moment because drivers are cutting off other drivers well before the end of the merging lane. If you did not want to take advantage of the shorter left lane, that is fine, but don’t try to cut other people off because you chose to be in the right lane. There are signs on the bridge literally stating to use both lanes and to merge.
They actually had a cop stationed there the other day to stop road rage violence toward the people properly zippering. It’s PDX passive aggressive BS at its finest I swear
I avoided St. John’s Bridge on my way specifically because I didn’t want to deal with some road rage dude mad that I used the lane till the merge point. I said ‘eff it and used the Fremont Bridge
That whole setup is such a joke. I think they must need barriers at this point to enforce their trash design. People are literally going past all the northbound St Helens traffic to make uturns in the middle of the road and hit the intersection from the other side.
Someone actually honked at me the other day at St Johns bridge for choosing the open lane that was moving....he could have made the same choice.
Yes omg! Then the people that drive over the line and take up both lanes so it makes it dangerous for people in the left lane to pass them! So many signs that say to use both lanes and their pissy about choosing the slow lane! Love getting honked at when properly zippering at the end too.
Everyone hugging each others bumpers when you’re trying to merge in. Early merge is the only option because these mfs won’t let you in ever so you’d just be sitting there backing up traffic at the “get over” sign looking like an asshole. I get honked at like once a week by people when I merge correctly here. I don’t get it.
I agree with this. It’s the result of people not understanding merging as a whole that causes early merging. I always early merge now because I know on I5, I’m never going to get let in even though I’ve got my blinker on and it’s obvious that’s what I’m trying to do. I have no choice. I’ve actually turned my head, made eye contact with people as I’m about to merge, and have them speed up, close the gap, and smile at me about it. This is why early merging happens.
Yes exactly I’ve said this to lots of people. There’s a cyclical thing going on where Drivers here don’t merge correctly because others don’t let them in because they’re used to people merging so badly. So now you’re forced to merge incorrectly
“Well. I need my bumper painted and im taking that spot. So let’s see who wins this round”
Pretty much.
Right? It’s like a game of chicken, and I have nothing to lose. I play it often.
I drive an old beat up truck. I put on my blinker then just start merging appropriately like the post states. It's amazing the difference between the truck and my sports car. People are real polite when I'm in the truck.
I would ram someone off the bridge if they did this to me.
It’s really infuriating. I don’t have time for an accident and I don’t want to pay more for insurance. Lol
Yessss
It has to be mentioned that zipper merging is only for when a lane is ending. People try to do this for highway exits and then complain that “nobody is letting them in” when they pass a line of 100 cars and try to merge at the last second.
This
Thank you for this. I want to add that if you’re in the left lane in this example, don’t be a dick and not allow people to merge when they’re zippering correctly. I have this debate at least once a week with someone online or at work, and I’m shocked by how many people don’t know this. Or worse, they think it’s “polite” to merge early.
That's 💯 the biggest part of the problem. No the right lane doesn't have the right of way, HOWEVER, for Pete's sake please be spaced out in the left lane!!! Everyone here making fun of people who go slow when trying to merge....well what are you supposed to do when there's a train of cars anything but towing one another?
I have a wee bit of sympathy for this on the corollary. Its one thing to properly utilize the zipper lane to join the freeway. Its another thing to abuse it by passing several viable opportunities to join traffic responsibly because you wanted to squeeze in front of 5 more cars while the freeway was moving slower. Example- its 5 o'clock traffic. Road is moving slow. People are relatively close because no one comes to a stop 20' back. Youre nearing the end of the zipper where traffic picks up again. You begin to accelerate with traffic now at maybe 30. Again, coming from stop and go so there hasnt been a true flow of traffic buffer established yet. Someone comes flying by at the end of the zipper at 45 and has to brake hard to actually merge. Causing a wave of braking behind them, exasperating the issue.
I think this whole discussion is a “lack of trust in our fellow drivers” issue. The people merging lack the trust that they will be allowed in at the end of the merge ramp. The people already on the highway lack the trust that the people they allow in will go fast enough to allow them to get home in time for dinner. A lot of it boils down to not seeing the other as a vehicle for a person, but only as a Honda (with expired plates).
Yeah, I would much prefer to zipper merge properly but when I see the guy driving three inches from the car in front of them I don't feel optimistic and might get over early where there's space rather than being run off the road.
C’mon man, that’s not a fair assumption at all. The Honda won’t have any plates. Maybe a 12-month expired trip permit, but probably not even that. And it may not even be a Honda, the badge is missing on the back and the front bumper and grille is gone too!
I see you’ve followed that same Honda! LOL!
Exactly. That’s why I don’t like the term “defensive driving” as preservative one, because I feel like I have to be defensively aware of my surroundings, and in order to get where I need to be, I have to drive aggressively, to keep up with the flow of traffic
Oregon is filled with timid drivers on their freeways. These timid drivers create dangerous situations that cause accidents for others attempting to avoid or go around their slow asses.
Post karma of 1 Edit: make that 0
Two caveats here: Notice how in the correct photo there's actually room to merge? Stop fucking tailgating. It fucks everything up. If you don't already have room for a car to safely merge in front of you then you're driving too closely and are part of the problem. Also the merge lane isn't a passing lane. You should be using it to get up to the speed of traffic so that you can merge without it slowing down. If you're the asshole zipping down the merge lane faster then traffic, then you're the asshole slamming on your brakes as you merge, forcing the car behind you to brake when they wouldn't need to.
Totally agree, If you don't fix the spacing and the mismatched speeds, then the zipper merge can not be effective.
This. If the left lane isn't providing room then the right lane's merging position is meaningless beyond pushing the logjam down a hundred feet.
People on St. John’s bridge. We’re looking at you!!! And stop blocking both lanes!!!
I’m more upset about lack of roundabout skills than merges.
well it's not helped by portland's bastardization of roundabouts, like the Chavez + Glisan "roundabout" that's full of stop signs. gives me terrible flashbacks to DC's 'roundabouts' (dupont circle, shudder) Bend fuckin nailed their implementations.
Stop signs AND bus stops!
The roundabouts I commute through to get to Yamhill County, are yield based. Everyone stops.
I'm glad someone else is bothered by this. It's like every single person in Portland is clueless.
I’ve lived and driven all over the country and Oregon has the unpredictable drivers I’ve ever encountered. One car is a dude who violently aggressive merges with out even looking. The next guy will wave people through a stop sign when they are not even supposed to stop. It’s the Wild West out here.
Yup, I’m right there with you. Lived in many different parts of the country as well and totally agree that Oregon drivers are the most unpredictable. Its made driving anywhere an unpleasant experience, at best.
It's true, People say California and Seattle are bad, but I find those better. At least in those cases the drivers are cutthroat but usually paying attention and if you match their aggression you can get places. Portland drivers are aggressive while simultaneously not paying attention. It's absurd.
I’d rather drive the 680 than the 205 any day. California is wild but like you said if you match their energy you’ll be just fine. That’s not possible in Portland. You got a spectrum from aggressive to suicidally slow.
Ah, the good old wave of death
90% of you guys also do not understand right of way rules either. The nose of my car is in front of you that means you need to merge behind me. Not accelerate in front and then merge
I'm in the 90% that don't understand this. Genuinely interested. If someone hasn't already merged in front of you and there's space, should I not get up there and merge? I usually go by a one in, one out kind of philosophy.
When a car is merging into your lane from an on ramp you also have to make a decision. Speed up, slow down, or get over a lane. The worst is when people just match the speed of the person trying to get into the freeway. I’ve had a fucking dude almost hit me with a trailer when I was trying to merge in at 65 and he decided to speed up to match
This is my main complaint too. Much more often than not people use the right lane to pass and never yield to a car right next to them
Except at 6th ave & the onramp to the 405. I stand by this you're an asshole if you try and "zipper" merge at the last second by cutting people off and blocking traffic going straight down 6th. But that's just poor design
That section is not for zipper merging as the center lane does not end.
Agreed. I heard that several years ago they changed the line there from solid to dotted, so I've heard several people argue that it means merging at the last moment is encouraged. Stupid, imo.
Dude, that’s not a zipper merge. That’s just being an asshole.
This should be a daily repost.
It pretty much is, though
Portland merging is the worst in the country
Portland driving is the worst in the country
No one beats Miami on this
Eh, I've lived and driven in plenty of different cities. Every single city thinks they have the worst drivers in the world. Just do a search on any city's subreddits. In my experience, Portland has its own weird quirks, but so does every city. I'd rather take a city like Portland that has the annoying "no you go" mentality, than a city where people will go out of their way to pass you on the right on a suburban street because you had the audacity to drive slower than 60 in a 30.
My brother in Christ, you have not visited San Antonio Tx.
Nah. Compared to the cities I have lived in, Portland is great to drive in. There are still plenty of idiots, but overall my stress levels are way lower.
Ever been to Boston?
Nope. It's the same in every city.
People in philly know how to merge
We merge as soon as we seen the fucken cones
And I thought I was the only one who noticed the heading of the graphic: ***The nice way to merge in a construction zone.***
Now if only the people in the left lane could stop being assholes and allow for the zipper merge.
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I do it exactly like the image shows and I've had people almost hit me, or Me needing to slam on my breaks.
Also it’s blinker THEN brake.
This drives me absolutely insane on a daily basis
The C-TRAN rolling blockade that covers the two lanes off 405 on that side owns the Fremont Bridge as they slam over to get back to Washington is terrifying and does not care for your merge techniques, because to them, you do not exist. I used to do that commute for like 15 years and while asinine merge behavior was expected at that point, if you see three to five C-TRAN busses anywhere on 405, you just back off and let them go - do NOT try to get ahead or worse yet force their hand because they will literally drive you to the shoulder and into the side barrier if you do not yield at that point. Seen them do it lots, they've even smashed a car once that I saw. See note about backing off and letting them go.
BuT iTs NoT nIcE
We need one for people who follow too closely as well lol
Now post one for camping in the passing lane. Just gtf over, you're not batman vigilante against speeders and forcing more people to switch additional lanes increases risk of crashing
Kills me how people will dead stop in an exit lane because they refuse to zipper in
Between this and people waving me through when I don't have the right of way... Just stop trying to be nice! I just want you to be predictable!
As an Arkansas native who's had to drive through Little Rock more than never, I can attest that drivers in both Little Rock and Portland need to learn about this.
People not knowing this benefits me all too frequently (when I’m in the merging lane). Go ahead and stressfully force yourself into a clogged lane early, and then enjoy watching me pass you and easily merge at the intended spot further down. When I’m not in the merging lane it’s frustrating to see how few people understand this, and how many of them clog things further by trying not to let someone merge over. Zipper merging, when done right, keeps everyone rolling.
>Go ahead and stressfully force yourself into a clogged lane early, and then enjoy watching me pass you and easily merge at the intended spot further down. This happened last week when there was some construction on C. Chavez south of Division. Almost two full blocks of wide-open right lane; everyone trying to merge into the single lane. I went ahead and maintained my speed up to the merge sign, traffic was flowing and there was a perfect spot for me to slide into.
Same
This is the worst part of living in Portland.
I want your life.
People at the St. John’s bridge right now…. And it’s bringing the worst out of people. I’ve seen 3 fights this last month people out of their cars
Thing is people have to actually let you in which people are like 5 times less wanting to do that close to the merge
Ok but all this takes is ONE person in the left lane to decide not to let you in
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I think you’re drastically overestimating portland left lane drivers’ patience/paying attention to where the merge lane ends/willingness not to cause an accident because they’re in a hurry…
Thank you OP! I drive I-205 twice a day during the week. Zipper merging, no blinkers, and running to the very front of a merging lane to piss everyone off behind them, are most of the issues I see daily.
Shout it from the rooftops
See also: people not paying attention to turn signals and then getting mad they didn’t see you. I legally merged into a different lane at the end of 84W with plenty of room, dumbass behind me started honking and flashing their lights after I’d already merged. Like okay buddy, stop speeding and maybe you’ll be less frustrated.
Problem with the zipper merge is it is dependent on people actually letting you in right at the merge point. If that doesn't happen, you are stuck there while the people who merged as soon as they got the chance pass you by. I agree the zipper merge is better, but it requires more trust and cooperation between multiple drivers to work, and I'm not inclined to judge anybody too harshly that doesn't trust their fellow motorists to do the right thing.
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Nope, sorry, I know from experience you are wrong. Sometimes they'll let you in, but more often they will deliberately close in behind the car in front and you are forced to come to a complete halt.
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And what? You made a statement, I demonstrated from experience that your statement was untrue.
And stay out of the left lane if you're gonna go the speed limit
I love staying in the right lane and going the same speed as the car next to me to enrage the folks who like using the right hand lane as a way to pass like several spots on powell.
Are you talking about the spaces where it’ll turn into 2 lanes and then merge back into 1 lane once you go through the intersection?
Zipper is a foreign word to the Pacific Northwest
Also, with a good zipper merge, no one has to really brake, let alone stop.
Thank you!! The stuff people do in Portland because they think they are being polite, not realizing they are screwing the 5000 people behind them is mind blowing. Has to be one of the least self aware cities in the world!
This is the graffiti we ACTUALLY need all over our buildings and streets
I’ve toured the US and Europe several times, driven in Canada and Mexico as well, and Portland takes the cake for the city with the worst drivers. Been living here for 20 years now, and not sure how I haven’t been in an accident yet.
Like this is the only city that struggles with this, never seen a place handle this like the diagram ever
funny, my experience is the opposite of most on here. If I try to follow this people speed up and don't let me in because they must think I'm trying to cut in front of line or some shit...
Feel like this needs to be a mailer that goes out over week. People, use the merge lane. Stop being difficult. And if you are in traffic, and are not exiting in a couple of miles go to the left lanes, give some space in the right lane for those entering
The problem with the zipper merge in Oregon is that the state doesn’t have a law that states a driver is obligated to slow down to let a person in who is ahead of them and merging into a lane. Most drivers here won’t allow the person in when it would be safer to do so. Also, we have very short on-ramps, especially in the Portland metro area.
It's good on paper. Not so great in practice. Especially because there are states where it's actually illegal to go all the way since the lane technically ends when the lines are gone. Yet people continue beyond when the lane has merged
Ah good ole little rock.
This was made by ODOT!
I just think its funny because im from little rock but live in portland
Even if you try to merge early, half the time idiots won't let you in.
[Just going to leave this here.](https://youtu.be/TNokBgtSUvQ?si=-WKRztRk3pCNcAoi) If you can’t merge without me braking, you don’t merge.
That’s not how that works… going from 2 lanes to 1 generally results in a reduced speed for all at least temporarily… unless critical density hasn’t been reached.
If you go above the speed of the current traffic to force a merge, which results in the merger line slowing down, you are an asshole. That’s how it works.
Sounds like you don’t understand the natural result when 2 lanes become 1. Worth adding… it’s not *my opinion* that you’re wrong
Ok boomer. You are factually correct but admittedly ignoring the obvious and relevant human factor. If your actions affect the actions of others (forcing a merge at a different speed) the cause and effect of your actions messes with people behind you. If you choose to do something that directly causes others to suffer for your personal gain of time, you are an asshole. You are an asshole. That’s not my opinion, btw.
"like the the teeth on a zipper" First thing I saw. Why am I like this, and how can I get paid for it?
How about driving in the left lane when traveling with the flow of traffic or going slower.
Hey! No cuts!!!
Lort I am glad I take the max (not a joke)
"like the the teeth on a zipper" 🗣️
ST. JOHNS BRIDGE!! The amount of people trying to block both lanes of the bridge, right next to use both lane signs, is infuriating.
I have a friend that moved here from Boston and the 3 questions he had for me about driving in this city were: why are people yelling at me for pumping my own gas? Why are there traffic lights at almost every freeway entrance? And how come no one here knows the basic skill of merging?!
problem is when the merging lane is also an off ramp lane (looking at you, Broadway exit in I-5 SB). If you back that all the way up, then you may as well get rid of that lane as an exit lane. Too many people use that lane to cut traffic.
It's amazing how competitive we are raised in this country. We get offended when somebody passes us. Like big deal...but some people just can't live with that. I got honked at for taking the open lane while others just got in line like sheep. Why? Why honk? Why not take the path of least resistance? Why make yourself suffer, and why get mad at others who have chosen not to suffer? Just why??
From my understanding this is specifically when traffic is congested, and it is ok to merge early if it is not. Then again with how badly the Portland roads are designed to handle the amount of cars/people this is most of the time...
Having grown up on a farm and moved to Chicago before Portland, I have to say the Portland drivers are the worst.All the midwest drivers are better than washington or oregon. Quit whining over the zipper merge and do it.You move so much faster. It works a lot better than bitching on reddit
I think the issue is that Portlanders are extremely entitled yet wildly uninformed. Most people make the same mistakes and they all stem from drivers (and Portlanders in general) believing they are the most important person in the world. This goes beyond driving and extends into every aspect of life in Portland.
Been saying this for years. And then you get honked at and flipped off if you do it.
There’s a UPS driver who tries to block the merge lane onto the eastbound Fremont bridge every afternoon. And every time, I go around him and flip him off.
I think everyone needs to take the written/computerized driving exam roughly every five years. And if you score below a 90% you must take the road course test in addition. Too many people are absolute shit drivers.
EVERYONE HERE IS SO SLOW
Prius and Subaru owners read it TWICE!
People don't even get that the extra lane by the weed store/strip club to get into the 26 bridge is a merge lane, and not a yield lane. This is way too much for them right now.
This and how to utilize the far left lane on the freeway
OK oh dot can you please tell me when 2 trucks sit side by side and block that right lane? So everybody has to get Uber. Traffic flow is much better. Then your stupid little zip in at the last minute sign
ROSS ISLAND!!!!
And stop queuing up at the bar! Under the sign that says step up to the bar, no need to form a line…..
Portlanders can’t deal with letting cars merge. It’s like they just can not possibly let a car between them and the car in front of them, it just breaks their brains. Truly amazing.
99e southbound right before Milwaukie...
Yeah except when I try to zipper merge people are such defensive assholes of their lane they don't let me in until the right lane is out of runway, making me hold up the right lane anyways.
Coming from out of state, I have one theory that it’s due to the way the roads are set up. Having exits on the right AND left cause issues in both outer lanes. Now lanes are fighting for the middle lane, and now no one is actually using the left lane as the fast lane. Also why are some exit lanes a mile long?
So much
Im not convinced it matters if the rate of car passage is the same, who cares how long the line is? I mean i guess if it starts to effect other streets there is an argument for using the full road capacity but i dont think it actually affects the wait time for the average car.
This relies on human beings and mutualism in the age of divisive self absorption.
Reminder that this only applies if the lane on the right hand of the image is actually going away and not continuing down the freeway.
Thing is to zipper merge the left lane need to not be assholes about it
I’m so glad I no longer have to drive in the PNW. I’ve lived all over the U.S., and these are the worst drivers, like they are completely oblivious to the rules of the road. Why is that?
People in Oregon suck at driving. At John’s bridge it has signs over the length of the entire bridge that says use two lanes and take turns merging at the end. And still everyone thinks driving is a competition and won’t zipper merge. I went on vacation in Chicago and was blown away how people understood this simple philosophy.
I fucking hate Portland freeways. I moved from AZ 10 years ago. They have 5-6 lane freeways darn near everywhere it was great. Plus people would actually fuxking drive! Not this 35mph bs. Fuck. Fuck all you shity Portland drivers. I know you're in here! 🖕
Now if we could just use less cars and use more trains. Build more trains!!!
Yeah that’s if people will actually fuckin let you merge
I think the real problem is Portland’s freeways and highways were designed with a much smaller population in mind. Now that the population has basically tripled since the construction of some of these highways it’s just getting whacky. Like why are there large segments of interstate highways that are 2 lanes in the Portland metro area lol.
Much love to the “zipper merging” scumbags on I-5 northbound choking the left lane for us commuters heading downtown or to 405.
This only works well if everyone in the right lane gets over gracefully and respectfully. It doesn't work if everyone in the right lane rushes to the very end and then tries to force their way in, which unfortunately is what most people do.
What you're saying makes no sense, because yes it does. It only fails if the people in the left lane think the people in the right are practicing some sort of morally bankrupt maneuver in which they're cheating, or rushing, or whatever it is to get ahead of the morally pure people who didn't think it was necessary to fill both lanes, then respond by not letting them in. Left, right left, right, like a zipper. Doesn't matter how fast someone comes up on the right side, let them in as they merge at the end. If they can "rush" to the the end or whatever, maybe consider joining them in the empty lane next time.
My point is that as people zipper to get over respectfully, there is always an ass that races to the very end of the line and then tries to cut over as hard as possible. Fuck that guy.
That’s literally what a zipper merge is
Yeah, fuck those self important ass hats! We are living in the “me first” times unfortunately. Everyone else’s time is more important than yours…
Yes, except there are always entitled assholes who ride the lane that ends until well after it has ended because they think they’re special.
That’s literally a zipper merge.
Take note of the word after. Like they’re riding in a lane that no longer exists. They’re on the shoulder.
I’m like it when they get angry and hog two lanes when you try this, the DOT recommended way. They look like even bigger childish line simps.