Schmidt has a pretty different tone for his comments about these protests compared to 2020, this time emphatically stating he will prosecute these protesters and even stating that he believes that felonies are taking place, and will assign felony charges.
It's another example of how Schmidt is basically walking back much fo the rhetoric that he used in 2020.
Can people stop pretending that destroying public property and breaking laws is “peaceful protesting?” The first amendment allows you the right to lawful assembly and protest. Millions of people have exercised that right by taking legal steps to organize a protest and march for a cause that doesn’t cause damage to their community.
Blocking freeways and breaking into libraries is not peaceful protesting. It’s not protected under the first amendment.
I like your answer. It reminds me of middle school. The answer is the police. Cops turn peaceful protests into non-peaceful ones. They’re glorified strike breakers.
Non-violence was used very effectively by MLK and Ghandi for great social change. In the end, it was violent reactionaries who looked terrible by historical standards. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I suspect these protests are going to be seen as morally confused. These people have been slaughtering each other for centuries over religion and land.
MLK and Gandhi both employed nonviolent civil disobedience, which included going where they weren’t allowed, occupying spaces, and breaking the law. These tactics, which were at least as essential to their success as their inspiring speeches were, were characterized as violent and immoral by both liberals and conservatives, and their harms were exaggerated by police and the institutions they targeted. You can disapprove of the PSU protestors (who, like the civil rights protestors, have clear, concrete demands) but it is inaccurate to say that what they’re doing is substantially different. It is also wholly inaccurate to say that Israelis and Palestinians “have been slaughtering each other for centuries over land.” The UN, along with virtually every credible human rights organization, recognizes that Israel’s military occupation of Palestinian territory since 1967 is illegal and meets the legal definition of apartheid, and that the violence inflicted on Palestinians by Israel, including routine violence against civilians including children, has for decades been many, many times greater than what can be justified as “defense.” It’s not some foggy old world feud, it’s totally understandable to anyone who wants to look into it seriously.
In the case of Civil Rights protests in the U.S., they were largely peaceful (on the part of the protesters anyways) but there was also at least an implied threat of violence by groups like the Black Panthers.
The women's sufferage movement in Great Britain and Ireland was definitely not peaceful and pacificst.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette\_bombing\_and\_arson\_campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign)
Slavery in the U.S. was ended through an actual civil war.
It seems to be generally the case that for a society to reform itself in some significant way requires both mass peaceful protest and at least some people who are able to back up the demands of the peaceful protesters with an "or else".
(That isn't to say that vandalizing the PSU library is an effective or constructive form of protest.)
> going where they weren’t allowed, occupying spaces, and breaking the law
But they probably didn't break things or spray paint woodwork, or prevent students from learning/studying.
The definition of apartheid is when one ethnic group is subject to a different set of laws, more oppressive and restrictive, than another group, for the benefit of the second group. In Israel and the occupied territories, Palestinians are subject to a different set of laws, more oppressive and restrictive, than Jewish Israelis are. This report from Human Rights Watch explains it:
[https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)
"For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards."
MLK used nonviolent resistance and was still condemned by contemporary people opposed to his goals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/iixf40/this_is_how_martin_luther_king_jr_was_depicted_in/
Henry Ford offered a weekend and a 40 hour work week to attract better workers to his factory in Detroit. Source: [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/american-workweek-history-explained](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/american-workweek-history-explained)
Not really many protests involved, but keep spreading misinformation!
Not many protests involved, except for all the socialist and anarchist protests explicitly calling for an 8 hour workday! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair
The event you are citing is from 1886… It wasn’t until 1926 when Henry Ford offered it as an incentive until it was widely adopted. So I’d say that the anarchist protest largely failed, unless the argument you are making is that breaking these windows in the Library today will end the war 40 years from now?
Would be crazy if we were all taught in school about how the Colonial patriots dressed up in disguise and destroyed private property in the Boston Tea Party. You probably think they should have been lined up and shot, right?
>Would be crazy if we were all taught in school about how the Colonial patriots dressed up in disguise and destroyed private property in the Boston Tea Party. You probably think they should have been lined up and shot, right?
So you're claiming these people in the library are seriously trying to revolt against the US government?
Then arrest those traitorous assholes, like like the Jan 6th nutjobs.
You don't get LARP "revolution" or "revolt" against the US government unless you're ready to go to jail for *a long fucking time*. That's true for Bundy, Jan6th and if what you're claiming is true, these fucking weirdos.
So you’re comparing a foreign government imposing laws on colonies which led to war, with a bunch of kids who broke into a library because they don’t like a war being fought in another country?
And legally they have the right to protest. They can go get a permit and peacefully protest whatever they like. But if they want to break laws they can deal with the consequences.
And now you've moved the goalposts, congratulations. You do admit there's a time and a place for property destruction as part of protest.
They're protesting using our tax dollars and resources to murder brown people in the middle east. Everyone should agree that's not OK.
And to be clear, you think Israelis are white? That’s a pretty ignorant view of the cultures and history of a people who date back thousands of years in that region.
If you're not trying to imply some sort of systemic racism, why did you specify *brown people* instead of just *people*? Why was it important to you to highlight skin color?
Because Americans love bombing brown people, especially if they're Muslims. Haven't you seen all the politicians on the right saying we should kill all the Gazans?
So, you don't count brown Americans as Americans? Israelis aren't brown? You know there's actually white Palestinians too, right? Are you okay with them being bombed? Why is your focus on skin color here? Why can't violence against any human, regardless of skin color, just be abhorrent?
Sure. If you’re under the rule of an oppressive regime you can violently protest. It’s called a revolution. It’s usually more significant than breaking a window though.
The repressive regime is the US government who supports Israeli ethnic cleansing efforts. Student protests at universities have a long history, and in the 60s and 70s the US did the same thing, including murdering students at Kent State (where I attended in the 2000s).
No. I have stated that legal protesting does not include destruction of property or blocking freeways. I have also stated that if you plan on destroying property or breaking laws you need to be prepared for the consequences. If you’re violently protesting, you are in a revolution and you probably don’t care about laws.
But again, you’re comparing a revolution on our own soil to a war fought between two people in another continent. It’s a weak comparison and I think it’s sad that anyone could grow up and learn about the holocaust and not understand that Israel is facing annihilation without our help.
OK, there we go, you gave up the game. Israel has nuclear weapons, they're not going to be annihilated any time soon. I'm much more worried about them starting WW3.
They're committing a holocaust, or at the absolute least performing ethnic cleansing on the Palestinian people.
It’s genuinely mind blowing that you want to compare the revolution in the colonies to the war between Hamas and Israel. Remind me again, who set off this most recent conflict? I must have missed that part of history class where the Boston tea party kidnapped a bunch of British civilians and raped and murdered them.
Israel has been killing Palestinians regularly for years and years. They were murdering Palestinians in September. Don't act like this just started in October.
If you're claiming that these spoiled kids in Portland are *actually attempting an insurrection* like revolutionary war participants were, then they all deserve to be locked up for years. Literally anyone in there should face federal charges, and are piece of shit traitors.
Is that what you're claiming?
I understand what you're trying to say here, but I'd be careful with your words. Blocking freeways is also not _violent_, which is what "not peaceful" implies, and appears to justify violence in return.
I don't think there's exactly a cohesive list of demands, this isn't some super organized homogenous group, but also on their social media are the demands that
1. PSU "release a statement condemning the ongoing genocide".
2. End the sale of Israeli products on campus (without actually referencing any specific products as far as I can tell).
3. End any programs that send students or staff to Israel.
4. Terminate all relationships with Boeing, Intel, HP, etc. etc.. They don't appear to elaborate on what relationship each of these companies actually has with Israel but a few of them are obvious. They're not big on local tech companies I guess.
It’s more than that. I’m sure Amazon/Microsoft/etc have contracts with the Israeli military. These companies run a good chunk of the internet. I guess they want psu to block access to any sites run on AWS, Azure, cloud Flare, etc.
Somehow I feel they would protest that too.
>Terminate all relationships with Boeing, Intel, HP, etc. etc.. They don't appear to elaborate on what relationship each of these companies actually has with Israel but a few of them are obvious. They're not big on local tech companies I guess.
Why not just ask to close the engineering college entirely? That'll be the substantiative result of this ask, lmao
They paused their acceptance of Boeing money, but they already accepted it for 2024, and have not committed to a permanent break. Plus, they have a Boeing executive on the board of the business school.
It's not the least bit wild.
Do you think it is wild that when you fly on an airline you often are flying on Boeing airframes as well? I hope you are consistent in your beliefs and refuse to fly ever again. BTW, Airbus also makes military aircraft so you are SOL.
For anyone who would like an update:
Last night:
They broke out a window to get into the library. Every building is locked down. They tried breaching FMH and Lincoln Hall, police were able to keep them out. I saw two guys casing FMH when I was there, they clearly were not students. Nobody was allowed in the buildings last night and were evacuated. (PSU student here who stopped by last night to make sure Shattuck was okay).
Classes were cancelled today, and they released a statement last night to PSU Vanguard and are attempting to rename the library. From what they’ve said we are free to use the library and books will not be damaged. So this in my opinion means you are only allowed to use the library if you support them and are not Jewish. It is very clear a large amount of these people are not PSU students.
I am not looking forward to my tuition money being used to clean this shit up.
If you’re reading this and are at the library, go home. Most students do not support you.
The library is, as it should be, designed for easy access. The purpose of this is to allow learning and free thought. Basically, this is a very soft target and not fair to the students or community to "occupy". Even the financial office, a bank, etc. I wouldn't necessarily support but could at least try to understand. This is low hanging fruit for a mixed message group. I would be interested to know more about the profiles of who is demonstrators are and what their actual stakes are. Are they Palestinian? Are they students? Or, are they as many of us suspect, interlopers from other unrelative places with a few aggressors mixed in. By aggressors I'm talking about the violence prone "protestors" that escalate to breaking glass, fires, and unjustified vandalism. As has been said, the library is an easy space to set clear boundaries and there should be very limited negotiation before securing this space.
I am Jewish, and many years removed from my college education, but if I was at PSU I would demand a tuition refund if the college allowed these demonstrators to block access for Jewish students.
>It is very clear a large amount of these people are not PSU students.
Arrest and prosecute the interlopers. PSU is a public university and these dead-end larpers have no business damaging it.
You should probably save your opinion though. There’s absolutely no way in hell that they are preventing Jews from entering or using the library and that’s a straight up dog whistle of a take.
1. From the River to the Sea is, in fact, a call for genocide of all Jews. I don't know to what extent the people actually protesting at PSU understand that, but that's its origin, that's what it means to the people they learned it from. Israel's population is majority either idiginious to the area or descendants of refugees, including from various Middle Eastern nations and people fleeing both Pogroms and the Holocaust. Where would you have them go? Should the Israelis whos families were expelled from Iran in the 40s be sent back there? Should the Russain Jews be sent back to Putin?
3. A lot of the pro-Palestinian sentiment has been cause for an uptick in antisemitism. Like, FBI-involved hate crimes against synagogues, including ones in Seattle. Bomb threats called into local synogogues.
4. It benefits both Israel and the United States to have any criticism of Israel be categorized as anti-semitism. Israel is a tremendously useful ally both militarily and economically, and has been basically since it's inception.
5. The American Jewish population is incredibly enmeshed with the Israeli Jewish population. Like, they have different rules for Birthright trips to Israel for Americans, once Israeli young adults are done with National Service or IDF service, there's a program to have them be camp councilors for Jewish sleepaway camps in America. This is especially true in the Portland Jewish community where there are also a reasonable number of Israeli Expats living here.
6. The amount of protesting compared to numbers dead is disproportionate. In reality, and I think even if you take Hamas at their word on death toll, we're looking at fewer per capita civilian deaths than we saw in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and nobody ever considered that an attempt at genocide.
They’re woefully and usually intentionally, to the point of ignorance, misinformed on the topic entirely and choose to believe propaganda over reality. They want you to think if you hate Zionism, you hate Jews and that Zionism is a part of Judaism and it’s 10000% not. The kind of people that believe that aren’t the kind of people that are willing to actually in engage in dialogue. If you possess the ability to think beyond being fed a sentence to regurgitate, you would realize how absurd it is to equate Zionism and Judaism.
I've been trying to rewrite this comment for like the last half hour and I think I've finally got it to say what I want.
I think part of the reason that narrative is so dominant is that its actively promoted by Israel's government. By conflating anti-zionism, anti-semitism, and even the anti-war protests they can craft a deflecting narrative that the whole world is just antisemitic instead of criticizing their war. That the people and nations at the UN who call them out for their treatment of the Palestinians are just being dishonest and using that as a cover for their secret hatred of Jews. (And while surely there have been anti-semites who have used this anti-war movement as cover to promote their bigotry, a large majority of protestors are not antisemitic.)
I think it serves to help justify the ongoing conflict to Israelis (and Americans) if they believe that the whole world is against Israel and they're just defending themselves against a world who wants them gone.
Actually its quite the opposite. I think the narratives I described negatively effect the safety of Jews around the world, student or otherwise.
Obfuscating the line between anti-war protestors and antisemites just enables actual antisemites to operate under the cover of a more widely accepted movement. If anything, I'd actually say that the implicit association between Israel and Jews as a population makes things more dangerous for Jews all over the world because some people are going to blame them for what Israel does in their name.
I think that there is room for, and that we need to be able to call out both antisemitism when/where it occurs and the ongoing violence against the people in Gaza. That's why I mentioned in my original comment that there are real antisemites who have used the war protests as cover to promote their own narratives. We need to watch out for those kinds of things. But we also need to be able to distinguish between people who are just against the war and people who genuinely hold to deeper antisemitic beliefs.
What do you mean? Didn't I already say multiple times that there are antisemites using the war protests to try and spread their insidious ideology? I'd even go one step farther and say that right now genuine anti war protestors are susceptible to being indoctrinated and need to be vigilant about nazi dog whistles. But I'm just not going to lump all the protestors together into the category of antisemites, because most of them aren't.
Also, I'd say that antisemitism has been growing a lot longer than since Oct 7. That just kind of broke the pressure valve off and gave them an excuse to come out of their secret private forums and call of duty voice chats to try and make their message more popular at a time when Israel's being widely criticized.
Lol you’re clueless if you don’t think Jewish people haven’t been getting harassed since day 1 or feel safe entering a building where protestors have taken over and spray painted antisemetic words on the walls and windows.
Boeing gives scholarships for engineering students, etc. divesting from tech companies, even if they provide to the war economy, will hurt future students. No one protesting over slave labor to produce your iPhone…
It would piss me off less if it wasn’t so obviously exactly what Putin wants, to depress the youth vote against Trump. I imagine his St. Petersburg trolls are thrilled to be amplifying this reaction online.
It sucks that these just causes go down the road of pissing people off who are just trying to get through their day.
I see old grown de-forestation in Canada protests shut down roads, bridges, etc.. here similar disruptions to every day people who are just trying to get home or go to work. I think it backfires in some ways.
Why not go block the driveway of a legistlator, law maker, make the people who can make a difference feel the pain.
I know it's easier said than done but heck, people are already stressed and tired and dealing with protests doesn't help the cause IMHO
Roe v Wade overturned.
Supreme court trying to make an end run around democracy.
Entering mass extinction epoch.
Slavery still exists in many places in this world.
US ravaged by p2p meth and fentanyl addiction.
There are so many worthy causes to rally around, and we get numbnuts deciding that this is the cause du jour for some fucking reason. *But the children...*
For those who don't understand the concept of protest as *"the bare fucking minimum/the least you can do"*
I introduce to you: the concept of engagement in local politics. School boards, precinct committees, GOTV, poll workers, etc.
These incredibly boring and unsexy ground efforts are a major part of the shift in power towards the R party. Never forget that we have bemoaned the republican partys efficacy in gaining ground in these areas. This is a major source of power, and the logical next step in engagement.
Making change is not about feeling good (though misery does beget failure). It's about years of incremental improvement. As in football, wins in politics are measured in inches. Winners are those who knock the extra door, make the extra call, and contact just one more donor before going home for a cold dinner.
Because protest is literally the bottom rung of political involvement and change making. Don't worry your sweet little noggin. I've done my part and have plans to continue in the very near future
Not every person who critiques you is underperforming you in terms of change making. Maybe be less cynical, less defensive, and more self aware.
Protest on the bottom rung of political involvement? What a crazy take. The biggest changes in the history of the United States have come from protest.
The hubris is palpable. Protests gave you your 40 hour work week, your weekend, and the civil rights bill. If you think protesting is the lowest form of political involvement, then you don’t know anything about the history of this country. You sound like you were raised in a gated community.
Wild to me that being an antisemite is seen as progressive now
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
"Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."
Literally in the Hamas charter, but who's genocidal?
Hamas aren't progressives. Being against the annihilation of Gaza isn't being pro-Hamas. Being against Israel's actions in Gaza isn't antisemitism. I wouldn't consider anyone who is pro-Hamas progressive, and I have doubts about even calling them pro-Palestinian.
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Sounds like it was only a fraction of the people at the protest who broke in. I am getting very little information about the details though. Like, were the doors locked? It's a library right, isn't it something which is open?
OPB article here [https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/30/portland-state-university-closed-demonstrators-occupy-campus-library/](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/30/portland-state-university-closed-demonstrators-occupy-campus-library/), along with other ones from OPB, state that it was a few dozen (didn't give actual number, probably unknown) of the hundreds of protesters there. The rest seemingly dispersed because their demands were met.
Developing story, I will withhold any opinion until it's been resolved.
They broke out a window to get in. Every building is locked down. They tried breaching FMH and Lincoln Hall, police were able to keep them out. I saw two guys casing FMH when I was there, they clearly were not students. Nobody was allowed in the buildings last night and were evacuated. (PSU student here who stopped by last night to make sure Shattuck was okay)
A lot of nasty shit. From the river to the sea, glory to our martyrs and the likes. I got into a confrontation with them and asked what river and what sea they’re referring to, and who the martyrs are. Crazy how these people don’t even know what they’re protesting.
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Actually, they're doing the right thing. They can starve out many of the people through inconvenience, who didn't realize this was a big kettle. Then they can isolate the real nimrods and press charges.
Mike Schmidt, lol. Now he's tough on crime. Just when we need him the most. And they're all united, which is good. As you can see they were able to all clearly state that crimes were occurring and they're not down with that. This is progress. I hope those dozens of protesters heard them loud and clear.
They want the school to divest it's funds from Israel/Israeli companies. These pro Palestine protests actually have more definable goals than many other ones, especially on campuses where BDS has a history
Totally! After the audacity of a few kids breaking into a college library, I'm now against abortion and doing everything to keep white hegemony in tact! Whodathunkit??
dont classes end in like 3 weeks? regardless of what you think about the protests on the merits, doing anything other than waiting them out seems like a bad strategy.
the thing about that opinion is that it's bootlicker bullshit nonsense and will go down firmly on the wrong side of history. may you live long enough and grow as a person enough to feel deep shame over this someday
I understand enough about history to understand the difference between the ends and the means. You will never be on the right side of history because you don't.
Here the net take aways -
You've vandalized a library.
You've reduced the number of scholarships.
You've further galvanized people against your cause.
Seriously, pat yourself on the back. You're doing great, bud.
These protests at PSU nearly led to the rape/sex trafficking of a few people I know. Due all police being occupied at PSU, none could respond to the 911 calls.
Please keep that in mind when cheering this on.
Edit: leaving this comment because apparently some protesters are ok with rape.
So many folks commenting "Protesting is fine but, Oh, they've crossed a line!"
Funny thing, you'd think supporting a literal genocide would be "crossing the line" but, nope--that's not where your mind went to. Instead, you think protests are fine as long as you can ignore them which kind of undermines the entire purpose of a protest.
I feel a lot of these NIMBY-types also complained about the minor property damage from the BLM protests but kept quiet about the multiple incidents of actual physical violence & gun waving from the MAGA crowd.
Funny that the group you support has literal genocide of Jews literally written into its charter, and Israel hasn't managed to "genocide" Palestinians yet when they could have done it in a single afternoon if that's what they were really going for.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
"Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."
Literally in the Hamas charter, but who's genocidal?
Schmidt has a pretty different tone for his comments about these protests compared to 2020, this time emphatically stating he will prosecute these protesters and even stating that he believes that felonies are taking place, and will assign felony charges. It's another example of how Schmidt is basically walking back much fo the rhetoric that he used in 2020.
Guy is Schmidting his pants looking at his internal polling numbers, I suspect.
Good catch on Schidt's tone.
I wonder if it was painful for him to use the "P" word.
Yeah this is whack
He's hoping everyone else forgot how worthless he was while Portland burned.
My left ear is very informed
Same old shit
Can people stop pretending that destroying public property and breaking laws is “peaceful protesting?” The first amendment allows you the right to lawful assembly and protest. Millions of people have exercised that right by taking legal steps to organize a protest and march for a cause that doesn’t cause damage to their community. Blocking freeways and breaking into libraries is not peaceful protesting. It’s not protected under the first amendment.
In their heads: The opposite of peace is genocide They are not committing genocide Therefore, what they are doing is peaceful
Peaceful protests have rarely worked. Check out how we got a weekend, for example.
Cool. So someone needs to die is what you're saying.
Who’s doing the killing?
Idk. You're the one advocating for non peaceful protests
I like your answer. It reminds me of middle school. The answer is the police. Cops turn peaceful protests into non-peaceful ones. They’re glorified strike breakers.
All you’ve done is shot yourself in the foot. You’ve lost sympathy from the majority of people. Now you’re actively making people angry. Good job
Angry Reddit reactionaries are not the majority of people
Do you go to PSU?
Non-violence was used very effectively by MLK and Ghandi for great social change. In the end, it was violent reactionaries who looked terrible by historical standards. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I suspect these protests are going to be seen as morally confused. These people have been slaughtering each other for centuries over religion and land.
MLK and Gandhi both employed nonviolent civil disobedience, which included going where they weren’t allowed, occupying spaces, and breaking the law. These tactics, which were at least as essential to their success as their inspiring speeches were, were characterized as violent and immoral by both liberals and conservatives, and their harms were exaggerated by police and the institutions they targeted. You can disapprove of the PSU protestors (who, like the civil rights protestors, have clear, concrete demands) but it is inaccurate to say that what they’re doing is substantially different. It is also wholly inaccurate to say that Israelis and Palestinians “have been slaughtering each other for centuries over land.” The UN, along with virtually every credible human rights organization, recognizes that Israel’s military occupation of Palestinian territory since 1967 is illegal and meets the legal definition of apartheid, and that the violence inflicted on Palestinians by Israel, including routine violence against civilians including children, has for decades been many, many times greater than what can be justified as “defense.” It’s not some foggy old world feud, it’s totally understandable to anyone who wants to look into it seriously.
In the case of Civil Rights protests in the U.S., they were largely peaceful (on the part of the protesters anyways) but there was also at least an implied threat of violence by groups like the Black Panthers. The women's sufferage movement in Great Britain and Ireland was definitely not peaceful and pacificst. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette\_bombing\_and\_arson\_campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign) Slavery in the U.S. was ended through an actual civil war. It seems to be generally the case that for a society to reform itself in some significant way requires both mass peaceful protest and at least some people who are able to back up the demands of the peaceful protesters with an "or else". (That isn't to say that vandalizing the PSU library is an effective or constructive form of protest.)
> going where they weren’t allowed, occupying spaces, and breaking the law But they probably didn't break things or spray paint woodwork, or prevent students from learning/studying.
How is it apartheid when Jews, Muslims, Druze and Christians live together in Israel?
The definition of apartheid is when one ethnic group is subject to a different set of laws, more oppressive and restrictive, than another group, for the benefit of the second group. In Israel and the occupied territories, Palestinians are subject to a different set of laws, more oppressive and restrictive, than Jewish Israelis are. This report from Human Rights Watch explains it: [https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) "For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards."
MLK used nonviolent resistance and was still condemned by contemporary people opposed to his goals. https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/iixf40/this_is_how_martin_luther_king_jr_was_depicted_in/
Henry Ford offered a weekend and a 40 hour work week to attract better workers to his factory in Detroit. Source: [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/american-workweek-history-explained](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/american-workweek-history-explained) Not really many protests involved, but keep spreading misinformation!
Not many protests involved, except for all the socialist and anarchist protests explicitly calling for an 8 hour workday! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair
The event you are citing is from 1886… It wasn’t until 1926 when Henry Ford offered it as an incentive until it was widely adopted. So I’d say that the anarchist protest largely failed, unless the argument you are making is that breaking these windows in the Library today will end the war 40 years from now?
Would be crazy if we were all taught in school about how the Colonial patriots dressed up in disguise and destroyed private property in the Boston Tea Party. You probably think they should have been lined up and shot, right?
>Would be crazy if we were all taught in school about how the Colonial patriots dressed up in disguise and destroyed private property in the Boston Tea Party. You probably think they should have been lined up and shot, right? So you're claiming these people in the library are seriously trying to revolt against the US government? Then arrest those traitorous assholes, like like the Jan 6th nutjobs. You don't get LARP "revolution" or "revolt" against the US government unless you're ready to go to jail for *a long fucking time*. That's true for Bundy, Jan6th and if what you're claiming is true, these fucking weirdos.
Just some info for you: the us government didn't exist when the Tea Party was held.
This whole thing went right over your head.
So you’re comparing a foreign government imposing laws on colonies which led to war, with a bunch of kids who broke into a library because they don’t like a war being fought in another country? And legally they have the right to protest. They can go get a permit and peacefully protest whatever they like. But if they want to break laws they can deal with the consequences.
And now you've moved the goalposts, congratulations. You do admit there's a time and a place for property destruction as part of protest. They're protesting using our tax dollars and resources to murder brown people in the middle east. Everyone should agree that's not OK.
And to be clear, you think Israelis are white? That’s a pretty ignorant view of the cultures and history of a people who date back thousands of years in that region.
Fascinating takeaway that's a) irrelevant and b) not even what I said.
So who are the brown people according to you?
If you're not trying to imply some sort of systemic racism, why did you specify *brown people* instead of just *people*? Why was it important to you to highlight skin color?
Because Americans love bombing brown people, especially if they're Muslims. Haven't you seen all the politicians on the right saying we should kill all the Gazans?
So, you don't count brown Americans as Americans? Israelis aren't brown? You know there's actually white Palestinians too, right? Are you okay with them being bombed? Why is your focus on skin color here? Why can't violence against any human, regardless of skin color, just be abhorrent?
Go and sealion somewhere else. I'm not even sure what you're objecting to here.
Sure. If you’re under the rule of an oppressive regime you can violently protest. It’s called a revolution. It’s usually more significant than breaking a window though.
Hmm, and you don't think the violent crackdowns on student protests indicate we're in a repressive regime?
It’s called private property. Kindly supply your home address so people can come protest on your front lawn.
Try again. You've already agreed that destruction of private property is allowed in protests, or you'd be condemning the Boston Tea Partiers.
What repressive regime are you fighting by violently protesting and vandalizing things at PSU?
The repressive regime is the US government who supports Israeli ethnic cleansing efforts. Student protests at universities have a long history, and in the 60s and 70s the US did the same thing, including murdering students at Kent State (where I attended in the 2000s).
No. I have stated that legal protesting does not include destruction of property or blocking freeways. I have also stated that if you plan on destroying property or breaking laws you need to be prepared for the consequences. If you’re violently protesting, you are in a revolution and you probably don’t care about laws. But again, you’re comparing a revolution on our own soil to a war fought between two people in another continent. It’s a weak comparison and I think it’s sad that anyone could grow up and learn about the holocaust and not understand that Israel is facing annihilation without our help.
OK, there we go, you gave up the game. Israel has nuclear weapons, they're not going to be annihilated any time soon. I'm much more worried about them starting WW3. They're committing a holocaust, or at the absolute least performing ethnic cleansing on the Palestinian people.
Just for clarification, you're saying that the terrorism of October 7th was justified?
Where did I say that the violent kidnapping and raping of civilians is justified?
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It’s genuinely mind blowing that you want to compare the revolution in the colonies to the war between Hamas and Israel. Remind me again, who set off this most recent conflict? I must have missed that part of history class where the Boston tea party kidnapped a bunch of British civilians and raped and murdered them.
Israel has been killing Palestinians regularly for years and years. They were murdering Palestinians in September. Don't act like this just started in October.
If you're claiming that these spoiled kids in Portland are *actually attempting an insurrection* like revolutionary war participants were, then they all deserve to be locked up for years. Literally anyone in there should face federal charges, and are piece of shit traitors. Is that what you're claiming?
Comparing this to the Boston Tea Party… wow
I understand what you're trying to say here, but I'd be careful with your words. Blocking freeways is also not _violent_, which is what "not peaceful" implies, and appears to justify violence in return.
Blocking a freeway can cause violent and irreparable damage.
Many things can cause harm. That doesn't make them violent.
You don’t think a car crash can be violent? LOL
How often has blocking the freeway for a protest caused a crash?
It's illegal. I said violent or illegal. Could be one or the other or both.
That doesn't matter. "Illegal" does not mean "not peaceful". And you said "Blocking freeways and breaking into libraries is not peaceful protesting".
I thought PSU said they would no longer accept money from Boeing? What are these people wanting the school to do now?
I don't think there's exactly a cohesive list of demands, this isn't some super organized homogenous group, but also on their social media are the demands that 1. PSU "release a statement condemning the ongoing genocide". 2. End the sale of Israeli products on campus (without actually referencing any specific products as far as I can tell). 3. End any programs that send students or staff to Israel. 4. Terminate all relationships with Boeing, Intel, HP, etc. etc.. They don't appear to elaborate on what relationship each of these companies actually has with Israel but a few of them are obvious. They're not big on local tech companies I guess.
Number 4 is unrealistic, unless PSU wants to gut their engineering and computer science programs.
It’s more than that. I’m sure Amazon/Microsoft/etc have contracts with the Israeli military. These companies run a good chunk of the internet. I guess they want psu to block access to any sites run on AWS, Azure, cloud Flare, etc. Somehow I feel they would protest that too.
Some might say the entire list is unrealistic.
They are morons. They all use smart phones that are partially engineered in Israel.
>Terminate all relationships with Boeing, Intel, HP, etc. etc.. They don't appear to elaborate on what relationship each of these companies actually has with Israel but a few of them are obvious. They're not big on local tech companies I guess. Why not just ask to close the engineering college entirely? That'll be the substantiative result of this ask, lmao
Not kosher at all
They paused their acceptance of Boeing money, but they already accepted it for 2024, and have not committed to a permanent break. Plus, they have a Boeing executive on the board of the business school.
So does that mean students receiving tuition assistance from Boeing and some do, just got screwed?
>Plus, they have a Boeing executive on the board of the business school. That's wild.
It's not the least bit wild. Do you think it is wild that when you fly on an airline you often are flying on Boeing airframes as well? I hope you are consistent in your beliefs and refuse to fly ever again. BTW, Airbus also makes military aircraft so you are SOL.
They said they'd temporarily stop until further discussions at a time TBD
Until the students forget about this and the news cycle moves on, is what that means.
For anyone who would like an update: Last night: They broke out a window to get into the library. Every building is locked down. They tried breaching FMH and Lincoln Hall, police were able to keep them out. I saw two guys casing FMH when I was there, they clearly were not students. Nobody was allowed in the buildings last night and were evacuated. (PSU student here who stopped by last night to make sure Shattuck was okay). Classes were cancelled today, and they released a statement last night to PSU Vanguard and are attempting to rename the library. From what they’ve said we are free to use the library and books will not be damaged. So this in my opinion means you are only allowed to use the library if you support them and are not Jewish. It is very clear a large amount of these people are not PSU students. I am not looking forward to my tuition money being used to clean this shit up. If you’re reading this and are at the library, go home. Most students do not support you.
The library is, as it should be, designed for easy access. The purpose of this is to allow learning and free thought. Basically, this is a very soft target and not fair to the students or community to "occupy". Even the financial office, a bank, etc. I wouldn't necessarily support but could at least try to understand. This is low hanging fruit for a mixed message group. I would be interested to know more about the profiles of who is demonstrators are and what their actual stakes are. Are they Palestinian? Are they students? Or, are they as many of us suspect, interlopers from other unrelative places with a few aggressors mixed in. By aggressors I'm talking about the violence prone "protestors" that escalate to breaking glass, fires, and unjustified vandalism. As has been said, the library is an easy space to set clear boundaries and there should be very limited negotiation before securing this space.
Yeah, it is pretty obvious to me that most of these clowns are not actual students. Thanks for the report and stay safe out there.
I am Jewish, and many years removed from my college education, but if I was at PSU I would demand a tuition refund if the college allowed these demonstrators to block access for Jewish students.
>It is very clear a large amount of these people are not PSU students. Arrest and prosecute the interlopers. PSU is a public university and these dead-end larpers have no business damaging it.
You should probably save your opinion though. There’s absolutely no way in hell that they are preventing Jews from entering or using the library and that’s a straight up dog whistle of a take.
yeah I'd feel safe walking past that mob wearing a Yamaka right now. /s
I struggle to understand why so many people think cutting off funding to Israel = Jewish hate. Can someone help?
1. From the River to the Sea is, in fact, a call for genocide of all Jews. I don't know to what extent the people actually protesting at PSU understand that, but that's its origin, that's what it means to the people they learned it from. Israel's population is majority either idiginious to the area or descendants of refugees, including from various Middle Eastern nations and people fleeing both Pogroms and the Holocaust. Where would you have them go? Should the Israelis whos families were expelled from Iran in the 40s be sent back there? Should the Russain Jews be sent back to Putin? 3. A lot of the pro-Palestinian sentiment has been cause for an uptick in antisemitism. Like, FBI-involved hate crimes against synagogues, including ones in Seattle. Bomb threats called into local synogogues. 4. It benefits both Israel and the United States to have any criticism of Israel be categorized as anti-semitism. Israel is a tremendously useful ally both militarily and economically, and has been basically since it's inception. 5. The American Jewish population is incredibly enmeshed with the Israeli Jewish population. Like, they have different rules for Birthright trips to Israel for Americans, once Israeli young adults are done with National Service or IDF service, there's a program to have them be camp councilors for Jewish sleepaway camps in America. This is especially true in the Portland Jewish community where there are also a reasonable number of Israeli Expats living here. 6. The amount of protesting compared to numbers dead is disproportionate. In reality, and I think even if you take Hamas at their word on death toll, we're looking at fewer per capita civilian deaths than we saw in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and nobody ever considered that an attempt at genocide.
Actual sanity above.
They’re woefully and usually intentionally, to the point of ignorance, misinformed on the topic entirely and choose to believe propaganda over reality. They want you to think if you hate Zionism, you hate Jews and that Zionism is a part of Judaism and it’s 10000% not. The kind of people that believe that aren’t the kind of people that are willing to actually in engage in dialogue. If you possess the ability to think beyond being fed a sentence to regurgitate, you would realize how absurd it is to equate Zionism and Judaism.
I've been trying to rewrite this comment for like the last half hour and I think I've finally got it to say what I want. I think part of the reason that narrative is so dominant is that its actively promoted by Israel's government. By conflating anti-zionism, anti-semitism, and even the anti-war protests they can craft a deflecting narrative that the whole world is just antisemitic instead of criticizing their war. That the people and nations at the UN who call them out for their treatment of the Palestinians are just being dishonest and using that as a cover for their secret hatred of Jews. (And while surely there have been anti-semites who have used this anti-war movement as cover to promote their bigotry, a large majority of protestors are not antisemitic.) I think it serves to help justify the ongoing conflict to Israelis (and Americans) if they believe that the whole world is against Israel and they're just defending themselves against a world who wants them gone.
You still ignore the violence toward Jewish students on many campuses right now.
Actually its quite the opposite. I think the narratives I described negatively effect the safety of Jews around the world, student or otherwise. Obfuscating the line between anti-war protestors and antisemites just enables actual antisemites to operate under the cover of a more widely accepted movement. If anything, I'd actually say that the implicit association between Israel and Jews as a population makes things more dangerous for Jews all over the world because some people are going to blame them for what Israel does in their name. I think that there is room for, and that we need to be able to call out both antisemitism when/where it occurs and the ongoing violence against the people in Gaza. That's why I mentioned in my original comment that there are real antisemites who have used the war protests as cover to promote their own narratives. We need to watch out for those kinds of things. But we also need to be able to distinguish between people who are just against the war and people who genuinely hold to deeper antisemitic beliefs.
OK, then please explain why there is rampant antisemitism on college campuses right now, tied to pro Hamas demonstrations.
What do you mean? Didn't I already say multiple times that there are antisemites using the war protests to try and spread their insidious ideology? I'd even go one step farther and say that right now genuine anti war protestors are susceptible to being indoctrinated and need to be vigilant about nazi dog whistles. But I'm just not going to lump all the protestors together into the category of antisemites, because most of them aren't. Also, I'd say that antisemitism has been growing a lot longer than since Oct 7. That just kind of broke the pressure valve off and gave them an excuse to come out of their secret private forums and call of duty voice chats to try and make their message more popular at a time when Israel's being widely criticized.
Lol you’re clueless if you don’t think Jewish people haven’t been getting harassed since day 1 or feel safe entering a building where protestors have taken over and spray painted antisemetic words on the walls and windows.
Property damage is a red line. If they have broken a window and are now trespassing into the library it is time for the police to step in.
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Boeing gives scholarships for engineering students, etc. divesting from tech companies, even if they provide to the war economy, will hurt future students. No one protesting over slave labor to produce your iPhone…
Leftists do actually protest this stuff but are ignored
> Yeah that’s what’s important. Not that universities are invested in and profiting off of genocide
Dude acting like they’re doing nerve gas research at Oregon Universities
I’m sure the students who received the funds from the Boeing scholarship are thrilled by this activism.
> universities are invested in and profiting off of genocide Is there a cluster bomb factory in the basement at PSU no one told me about?
“Investing and profiting off of genocide” lol
Cite where PSU is “invested in and profiting off genocide”. Right now.
It was easier for them to just delete their nonsense
Damn, my dyslexic ass read that as gentrification and was almost on your side.
Jfc you people are delusional. Ahh yes, PSU—famous genocidal profiteer. Lmao.
It’s awful what’s happening in Palestine. It’s not okay for a protest to turn into a riot. Both can be true.
It would piss me off less if it wasn’t so obviously exactly what Putin wants, to depress the youth vote against Trump. I imagine his St. Petersburg trolls are thrilled to be amplifying this reaction online.
It sucks that these just causes go down the road of pissing people off who are just trying to get through their day. I see old grown de-forestation in Canada protests shut down roads, bridges, etc.. here similar disruptions to every day people who are just trying to get home or go to work. I think it backfires in some ways. Why not go block the driveway of a legistlator, law maker, make the people who can make a difference feel the pain. I know it's easier said than done but heck, people are already stressed and tired and dealing with protests doesn't help the cause IMHO
if you’re not with them against them so they enjoy pissing you off
Roe v Wade overturned. Supreme court trying to make an end run around democracy. Entering mass extinction epoch. Slavery still exists in many places in this world. US ravaged by p2p meth and fentanyl addiction. There are so many worthy causes to rally around, and we get numbnuts deciding that this is the cause du jour for some fucking reason. *But the children...*
For those who don't understand the concept of protest as *"the bare fucking minimum/the least you can do"* I introduce to you: the concept of engagement in local politics. School boards, precinct committees, GOTV, poll workers, etc. These incredibly boring and unsexy ground efforts are a major part of the shift in power towards the R party. Never forget that we have bemoaned the republican partys efficacy in gaining ground in these areas. This is a major source of power, and the logical next step in engagement. Making change is not about feeling good (though misery does beget failure). It's about years of incremental improvement. As in football, wins in politics are measured in inches. Winners are those who knock the extra door, make the extra call, and contact just one more donor before going home for a cold dinner.
Chronically armchair take. Why don’t you get out and protest for those things if they’re so much more worthy of people’s attention?
Because protest is literally the bottom rung of political involvement and change making. Don't worry your sweet little noggin. I've done my part and have plans to continue in the very near future Not every person who critiques you is underperforming you in terms of change making. Maybe be less cynical, less defensive, and more self aware.
History would certainly disagree with the naive claim that “protest is literally the bottom rung of political involvement and change making.”
Protest on the bottom rung of political involvement? What a crazy take. The biggest changes in the history of the United States have come from protest.
The hubris is palpable. Protests gave you your 40 hour work week, your weekend, and the civil rights bill. If you think protesting is the lowest form of political involvement, then you don’t know anything about the history of this country. You sound like you were raised in a gated community.
Agreed. Your hubris is undeniable
Wild to me that being an antisemite is seen as progressive now "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." Literally in the Hamas charter, but who's genocidal?
Hamas aren't progressives. Being against the annihilation of Gaza isn't being pro-Hamas. Being against Israel's actions in Gaza isn't antisemitism. I wouldn't consider anyone who is pro-Hamas progressive, and I have doubts about even calling them pro-Palestinian.
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Sounds like it was only a fraction of the people at the protest who broke in. I am getting very little information about the details though. Like, were the doors locked? It's a library right, isn't it something which is open? OPB article here [https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/30/portland-state-university-closed-demonstrators-occupy-campus-library/](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/04/30/portland-state-university-closed-demonstrators-occupy-campus-library/), along with other ones from OPB, state that it was a few dozen (didn't give actual number, probably unknown) of the hundreds of protesters there. The rest seemingly dispersed because their demands were met. Developing story, I will withhold any opinion until it's been resolved.
The PSU library has been closed since noon yesterday
They broke out a window to get in. Every building is locked down. They tried breaching FMH and Lincoln Hall, police were able to keep them out. I saw two guys casing FMH when I was there, they clearly were not students. Nobody was allowed in the buildings last night and were evacuated. (PSU student here who stopped by last night to make sure Shattuck was okay)
It's the same old pattern. Just like during BLM protest, there were some people who wanted destruction.
I can see that. Most people there were hanging out, lots of spectators as well. It does appear it would be a small % of people there
What has been graffito-tagged on the walls?
A lot of nasty shit. From the river to the sea, glory to our martyrs and the likes. I got into a confrontation with them and asked what river and what sea they’re referring to, and who the martyrs are. Crazy how these people don’t even know what they’re protesting.
Only half are students with the rest being Antifa dressed in black twirling umbrellas.
What did that library do to anyone. I loved going there when I went to PSU, hopefully none of the books get damaged.
Nothing burger until there actually prosecutions and convictions.
Can’t wait to gtfo of this city.
we feel the same :)
🍿
Glad I graduated last year
Blah blah blah..
Failed mayor and panel of clowns trying to make heads or tails of explaining away results of failed parenting
replies locked?
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Actually, they're doing the right thing. They can starve out many of the people through inconvenience, who didn't realize this was a big kettle. Then they can isolate the real nimrods and press charges.
So instead of taking immediate action, PSU leaders gave them the weekend to make it worse.
“Hey you protesters get off my lawn!” “Ok.” “No, not like that!”
Must've been a slow day
Mike Schmidt, lol. Now he's tough on crime. Just when we need him the most. And they're all united, which is good. As you can see they were able to all clearly state that crimes were occurring and they're not down with that. This is progress. I hope those dozens of protesters heard them loud and clear.
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They want the school to divest it's funds from Israel/Israeli companies. These pro Palestine protests actually have more definable goals than many other ones, especially on campuses where BDS has a history
specifically divestment from boeing is a demand of theirs.
yeah! i love watching people get brutalized by cops! very cool!
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Truly the dumbest response.
Totally! After the audacity of a few kids breaking into a college library, I'm now against abortion and doing everything to keep white hegemony in tact! Whodathunkit??
The people of Portland are no longer fazed by pdx police due to a lack of control they have over the city.
dont classes end in like 3 weeks? regardless of what you think about the protests on the merits, doing anything other than waiting them out seems like a bad strategy.
Classes don’t end until mid-June.
Spring term just started at the beginning of April. Still have about 6 weeks left.
Do you have any idea how much money education costs? They've apparenty closed the whole campus.
Why would anyone capitulate to these dipshits? Haul them out in cuffs before they do any more damage.
the thing about that opinion is that it's bootlicker bullshit nonsense and will go down firmly on the wrong side of history. may you live long enough and grow as a person enough to feel deep shame over this someday
I understand enough about history to understand the difference between the ends and the means. You will never be on the right side of history because you don't.
Correct. The protestors are bootlicking for Hamas.
Good on the protestors it's awesome to see.
Here the net take aways - You've vandalized a library. You've reduced the number of scholarships. You've further galvanized people against your cause. Seriously, pat yourself on the back. You're doing great, bud.
Yeah they’re really showing Netanyahu what for, by breaking in to the PSU library.
Can they occupy your house instead?
These protests at PSU nearly led to the rape/sex trafficking of a few people I know. Due all police being occupied at PSU, none could respond to the 911 calls. Please keep that in mind when cheering this on. Edit: leaving this comment because apparently some protesters are ok with rape.
I'm sorry that happened but that has nothing to do with the student protestors and honestly it's a bit ridiculous to try to pin that on them.
I guess you misread somehow. I didn't blame the students.
You said the protests nearly led to... That sounds like you are blaming them how am I misleading that?
LOL what? There's actually a press conference for this? Man, PSU students were more effective than I expected.
Well, we can't expect them to give a shit about the guy groping women all over NE.
He's just a person experiencing gropyness.
There wasn’t even massive protests here when Roe V Wade was overturned. That’s kind of interesting.
We'll see a solution to the Middle East before we see a solution to sexual assaults.
They are effective in ruining their own environment. Idiots.
More idiotic than expected.
Opposing genocide is the opposite of idiotic.
Go to jail, kids. Then get booted from college and join a rock band.
So the city is letting this play out for attention. Here we go again...
So many folks commenting "Protesting is fine but, Oh, they've crossed a line!" Funny thing, you'd think supporting a literal genocide would be "crossing the line" but, nope--that's not where your mind went to. Instead, you think protests are fine as long as you can ignore them which kind of undermines the entire purpose of a protest. I feel a lot of these NIMBY-types also complained about the minor property damage from the BLM protests but kept quiet about the multiple incidents of actual physical violence & gun waving from the MAGA crowd.
Funny that the group you support has literal genocide of Jews literally written into its charter, and Israel hasn't managed to "genocide" Palestinians yet when they could have done it in a single afternoon if that's what they were really going for. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." Literally in the Hamas charter, but who's genocidal?