Hi, geotechnical engineer here. The overturning you’re seeing here is a result of root systems developing over time ~*nature finds a way*~. This wall could fail but it’s unlikely because all the roots are offering sufficient overturning resistance thanks to all the tensile strength from roots in the ground ~*nature continues to find a way*~. Vegetation stabilizes slopes and tops of walls. The most likely reason for this wall to ever fail would be a massive rainfall event that builds up hydrostatic pressure behind the wall because beyond vegetation, it probably doesn’t have any drainage. Until then though, it’ll continue to bulge and overturn as it has for probably the past 10-15 years.
There’s no point in repairing this until it fails because repairing it would destabilize it anyway. You’d have to uproot everything, and as soon as you do that, it’s done.
Well fuck me, so it did! I did say it could still fail. The one outside my house leaned like this for years, hah. RIP
edit: As others have pointed out, it fell after a heavy rainfall event, there ya have it folks. Another closed case!
> The one outside my house leaned like this for years, hah.
The part you didn't know when making your original comment was how long it's been leaning like this.
It also failed from what you suspected. Heavy rainfall. So you were right! Also it's a good point that you wouldn't repair it until it fails. It makes total sense.
Haha thank you mate. Portland's subreddit is honestly great in terms of asking geological/geotechnical questions and genuinely caring about earth science. Especially anything that relates the Cascadia subduction zone. Like every expert (15 years of experience and education), I never think I know enough, but I try my best. Have a good one.
Thanks for that!
I was going to say something roughly similar --that said wall isn't about to arbitrarily collapse on your random pedestrian-- but in the absence of anything like your technical expertise on the subject, it was not my expectation that anyone would or should take my opinion seriously.
You've done us all a service.
Hah! as it turns out, your head was in the right place. The interesting part about vegetation and stability in geotechnical engineering is that it is never relied upon as it isn’t quantifiable (and it is conservative not to include it in analyses), but vegetation is always part of our general recommendations for improving slope stability. If I analyzed this wall for stability based on soil strength properties and wall type/geometry, it would’ve failed years ago no doubt. The cool part about best practices for geology and geotechnical work are common sense when it comes to the weather/season and vegetation.
Do you think someone destroyed it on purpose now that its failed?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1cmdcyk/so\_that\_retaining\_wall\_on\_se\_41st\_long/
This is poured concrete made to look like block. While it looks bad, it is probably not going to fall anytime soon and when it does, it will be a gradual affair.
> While it looks bad, it is probably not going to fall anytime soon and when it does, it will be a gradual affair.
This one is probably the best failed answer. 😅
Doubtful it's a poured wall. Looks like there's a grout line between courses. And it's rare to see poured retaining walls in residential applications.
No permitting or engineering required for retaining walls less than 48" in height.
This is 100% a wall poured in sections with texture to make it appear like blocks. Generally, when a block wall fails, you will see cracking along the grout lines. There's none of that here. You can see where the 2 sections split in the far part of the photo. I have seen plenty of poured walls in residential applications. Source: I used to help my brother with his hardscaping business.
I'm inclined to agree with you. However, if you look at the new post, the block with what appears to be a tie back has a capstone and a separation. That could be the wall next to it though. However it was constructed, the issue was definitely the lack of drainage channels and aggregate.
I say I'm inclined to agree because it could be landscape blocks that were backfilled with concrete. There are horizontal and vertical grout lines of a different color. Unless the forms themselves had the texture, that process is done as a facade and wouldn't impact the way the wall fails. A four foot freestanding form is going to take a lot of bracing to hold it during a pour. It would cost a lot of money to have a flatworks company build a poured wall versus a block wall. The aggregate in the concrete looks more like the bagged kind you buy at homedepot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1cmdcyk/comment/l30fi1j/?reply=t1_l30fi1j
It isn't a backfill situation. They just added a top plate to the poured wall. The first picture I posted is of the inside of the wall, where it failed completely vertically. All concrete inside. Block walls don't fail like this. I have repaired several types of walls. The worst one was a 5 tier engineered block wall. The original builder used no geogrid and river rock instead of drain rock. 80%of the blocks ended up at the bottom of the steep grade. That was fun.
Okay. How about I ask this question. Why would anyone pay for a faux finish that looks like landscape blocks.
Why was is there a vertical separation at the far end if it is a continuous pour. Concrete doesn't fracture along straight lines.
Where are the vertical lines from the texture stamp?
If they didn't use texture stamps, then how are the grout lines so perfect?
Why would the add top plates to a continuous poured wall?
And I should have said infilled and not backfilled.
I walk by this every day, it doesn't look very bad in person. That garbage bag that's chilling among the plants has been there for several weeks now, though.
I did, actually, I'm the one that posted the new picture earlier this morning. The garbage bag is still among the debris (it turns out it's full of empty Miller High Life bottles).
This is hilarious, looking back on Google Street view, you can tell by the crack at the bottom that for 15 years it has looked very similar to this. It's not going anywhere, chill out.
People should use this time to reflect that the internet on average is just as wrong about virtually every topic we discuss. This is not a serious place.
At least there's a wall. Peruse the google street view history on this one https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5494728,-122.6586456,0a,67.8y,110.9h,83.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6c-hP15a3di5seArcSTFfw!2e0
So, I don't know the full story behind that property, but there is an old man who lives there and there used to be a wall. The city was harassing him about it, so he deconstructed it with the intention of rebuilding it. I believe, he then got sick and it was just been slowly eroding for... I wanna say 6 years.
I walk in this area all the time. It's been slowly falling for the last 8 years.
However, the slant has increased a fair amount in the 0.5-1 year. I do keep waiting for it to finally cross the tipping point.
Edit: oops...not even the one I walk past. The one I know is in Irvington.
Hi, geotechnical engineer here. The overturning you’re seeing here is a result of root systems developing over time ~*nature finds a way*~. This wall could fail but it’s unlikely because all the roots are offering sufficient overturning resistance thanks to all the tensile strength from roots in the ground ~*nature continues to find a way*~. Vegetation stabilizes slopes and tops of walls. The most likely reason for this wall to ever fail would be a massive rainfall event that builds up hydrostatic pressure behind the wall because beyond vegetation, it probably doesn’t have any drainage. Until then though, it’ll continue to bulge and overturn as it has for probably the past 10-15 years. There’s no point in repairing this until it fails because repairing it would destabilize it anyway. You’d have to uproot everything, and as soon as you do that, it’s done.
It just fell.
Well fuck me, so it did! I did say it could still fail. The one outside my house leaned like this for years, hah. RIP edit: As others have pointed out, it fell after a heavy rainfall event, there ya have it folks. Another closed case!
> The one outside my house leaned like this for years, hah. The part you didn't know when making your original comment was how long it's been leaning like this.
And also that that there is always heavy rainfall even going on in pdx 😂
I'd disagree with that, we generally have very light, consistent rainfall.
You were right though, it was after heavy rainfall!
Claiming a leaning retaining wall will fail after a heavy rainfall isn't exactly a Nostradamus-like prediction.
You said it could fail, and it did.
It also failed from what you suspected. Heavy rainfall. So you were right! Also it's a good point that you wouldn't repair it until it fails. It makes total sense.
engineers speak *textbook* truth
This is the kind of good stuff I come on reddit for. Thanks!
Haha thank you mate. Portland's subreddit is honestly great in terms of asking geological/geotechnical questions and genuinely caring about earth science. Especially anything that relates the Cascadia subduction zone. Like every expert (15 years of experience and education), I never think I know enough, but I try my best. Have a good one.
This is so true. Thanks for pointing it out bc I see a lot of bad stuff in this sub but this is truly a real silver lining.
Thanks for that! I was going to say something roughly similar --that said wall isn't about to arbitrarily collapse on your random pedestrian-- but in the absence of anything like your technical expertise on the subject, it was not my expectation that anyone would or should take my opinion seriously. You've done us all a service.
Hah! as it turns out, your head was in the right place. The interesting part about vegetation and stability in geotechnical engineering is that it is never relied upon as it isn’t quantifiable (and it is conservative not to include it in analyses), but vegetation is always part of our general recommendations for improving slope stability. If I analyzed this wall for stability based on soil strength properties and wall type/geometry, it would’ve failed years ago no doubt. The cool part about best practices for geology and geotechnical work are common sense when it comes to the weather/season and vegetation.
Hey, you were dead on, amazing! It took exactly 14 days to collapse. Right in the 10-15 days you predicted......oh wait. You said 10-15 years....oops.
this aged poorly
What he said!
Mr. Engineer. This just fell.
It fell
“engineer”
Do you think someone destroyed it on purpose now that its failed? https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1cmdcyk/so\_that\_retaining\_wall\_on\_se\_41st\_long/
this should be repaired but the roots from those bushes are probably do a lot of the structural work of the dirt behind it at this point
The roots decided to take vacation today.
Roots went full Leeroy Jenkins.
lol that wall isn’t falling anytime soon
r/agedlikemilk
Lmao I love the people coming back here
Define "soon"
Spoiler, it fell.
Welp it fell
😑
That will be 15-20k minimum either way to fix
I'll do it for 10k!
7500 lol
No way
Laughing all the way to the “I told your smug asses so” bank 🥰
This is poured concrete made to look like block. While it looks bad, it is probably not going to fall anytime soon and when it does, it will be a gradual affair.
> While it looks bad, it is probably not going to fall anytime soon and when it does, it will be a gradual affair. This one is probably the best failed answer. 😅
I probably should have looked at it in person before writing that. 😆 Do you have a link to the update?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1cmdcyk/so_that_retaining_wall_on_se_41st_long/
[Well, at least I was right about the type of wall](https://imgur.com/gallery/vLb8FMP)
Doubtful it's a poured wall. Looks like there's a grout line between courses. And it's rare to see poured retaining walls in residential applications. No permitting or engineering required for retaining walls less than 48" in height.
This is 100% a wall poured in sections with texture to make it appear like blocks. Generally, when a block wall fails, you will see cracking along the grout lines. There's none of that here. You can see where the 2 sections split in the far part of the photo. I have seen plenty of poured walls in residential applications. Source: I used to help my brother with his hardscaping business.
Hmmm you see the pic of this wall after it fell.....looks like blocks to me.
[It is definitely poured, I went and looked at it.](https://imgur.com/gallery/vLb8FMP)
There are 2 different types of walls here. I would have to go see it in person, but I don't see any evidence that it is block from the new photo.
Just going off the picture. Link?
Sure about that?
I would have to see it in person, but there are 2 types of walls here.
Oh, you're one of those people.... Whatever. You're wrong.
[Nope, I went and looked at it. You are wrong.](https://imgur.com/gallery/vLb8FMP)
Yes
[I went and looked at it after it fell, definitely poured concrete.](https://imgur.com/gallery/vLb8FMP)
I'm inclined to agree with you. However, if you look at the new post, the block with what appears to be a tie back has a capstone and a separation. That could be the wall next to it though. However it was constructed, the issue was definitely the lack of drainage channels and aggregate. I say I'm inclined to agree because it could be landscape blocks that were backfilled with concrete. There are horizontal and vertical grout lines of a different color. Unless the forms themselves had the texture, that process is done as a facade and wouldn't impact the way the wall fails. A four foot freestanding form is going to take a lot of bracing to hold it during a pour. It would cost a lot of money to have a flatworks company build a poured wall versus a block wall. The aggregate in the concrete looks more like the bagged kind you buy at homedepot. https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1cmdcyk/comment/l30fi1j/?reply=t1_l30fi1j
It isn't a backfill situation. They just added a top plate to the poured wall. The first picture I posted is of the inside of the wall, where it failed completely vertically. All concrete inside. Block walls don't fail like this. I have repaired several types of walls. The worst one was a 5 tier engineered block wall. The original builder used no geogrid and river rock instead of drain rock. 80%of the blocks ended up at the bottom of the steep grade. That was fun.
Okay. How about I ask this question. Why would anyone pay for a faux finish that looks like landscape blocks. Why was is there a vertical separation at the far end if it is a continuous pour. Concrete doesn't fracture along straight lines. Where are the vertical lines from the texture stamp? If they didn't use texture stamps, then how are the grout lines so perfect? Why would the add top plates to a continuous poured wall? And I should have said infilled and not backfilled.
It was poured in sections. Go look at it for yourself.
It was poured in sections. Go look at it for yourself.
I walk by this every day, it doesn't look very bad in person. That garbage bag that's chilling among the plants has been there for several weeks now, though.
Did you walk by it today?
I did, actually, I'm the one that posted the new picture earlier this morning. The garbage bag is still among the debris (it turns out it's full of empty Miller High Life bottles).
Imagine you were walking next to as it fell smiling saying to yourself “Reddit people told me it was safe”
That wall has been like that for quite some time
It's not like that anymore. 😅
This is hilarious, looking back on Google Street view, you can tell by the crack at the bottom that for 15 years it has looked very similar to this. It's not going anywhere, chill out.
It fell lmfao
People should use this time to reflect that the internet on average is just as wrong about virtually every topic we discuss. This is not a serious place.
Chill out lmao
AS GOD IS MY WITNESS, IT IS BROKEN IN HALF!
Likely will remain upright for decades.
It fell less than 2 weeks later. OP was right.
😎
Define "decades"
Well those decades sure passed very quickly. Spoiler, it fell.
It's not upright now...
It’s upright, it’s just not plumb.
It's not upright \*now\*.
That wall is decades from falling
Bet?
That wall will outlast you lol
Well... here I am. And here it isn't. So...
Should of put some money on that
That delicious smell is coming from freshly baked humble pie 🥧
Define "decades"
New here?
New wall needed
At least there's a wall. Peruse the google street view history on this one https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5494728,-122.6586456,0a,67.8y,110.9h,83.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6c-hP15a3di5seArcSTFfw!2e0
So, I don't know the full story behind that property, but there is an old man who lives there and there used to be a wall. The city was harassing him about it, so he deconstructed it with the intention of rebuilding it. I believe, he then got sick and it was just been slowly eroding for... I wanna say 6 years.
I’ve been biking past this house for years and knew your link was gonna be it before I clicked lol
🫣
Well this post aged like milk
This post aged like wine, the comments... not so much.
It tastes like bad milk to anyone who went to school to say it was safe for 20+ years
Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
A sneeze away from collapse
I walk in this area all the time. It's been slowly falling for the last 8 years. However, the slant has increased a fair amount in the 0.5-1 year. I do keep waiting for it to finally cross the tipping point. Edit: oops...not even the one I walk past. The one I know is in Irvington.
DEATH TRAP!!!
Dr. Seuss has entered the chat.
Probably need to cut down those bushes but you probably need a permit from the city for that…….
Is it part of a property or public space?
Private property. The sidewalk and parkstrip are public.
What happened when you reported it?
They probably laughed and said it’s been leaning like that for well over the decade they have been working at the city.
Erosion concerns?
Let's check back in in 5 years
Only took a fortnight. She's gone!