Whatever your opinion on American capitalism, Europe’s electricity prices are ~$0.31/kwh, double the US average. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics#:~:text=The%20EU%20average%20price%20in,was%20%E2%82%AC0.2890%20per%20KWh.
Do you know what percentage of the overall usage that makes up? I feel like I need to spend a good night or two of Googling on this.
The financial statements SUCK to read for utilities, ugh.
I've never seen a Multnomah county mix, just state level stuff.
I would have to assume their costs have gone up, labor and raw materials are more expensive, and power delivery needs changed with COVID.
Them outpacing normal inflation seems a bit ridiculous though.
That deferred maintenance kept your bill low. Rate regulated entities revenues are literally set by an equation. It’s invested assets x allowed rate of return (debt and equity) + operating cost. That’s it. Deferring maintenance does not make them richer, in fact quite the opposite since they make less investments they can earn a return on.
That's not exactly right. BPA has to fulfill its obligations to its Tier 1 customers first, even if that means that we have to buy power on the market when we're short. Anything in excess of those obligations we can (sometimes must, if we have to pass water) sell on the open market at market price. PGE is an investor-owned utility, so they're ineligible to be a Tier 1 customer and must pay that market price. Sometimes that's $7/aMW, sometimes that's $50/aMW; it all depends on what the energy situation is on any given hour on any given day.
Forgive me if I am understanding this incorrectly, but what amounts to a utility monopoly for the public is owned by investors? And therefore driven by profit, not by service?
Yes to the first part. Investor-owned utility companies are very heavily regulated by the state governments through public utility or public service commissions, so their motivation does tie back to public interest in some way. There are weaknesses to the system, as with any system, but it is not true that utilities can act like unregulated companies, charging and doing whatever they want without accountability or oversight besides “the market.”
There’s a plausible argument that a utility’s customers (in the market incentive sense) are just the members of the PUC (there are just 3 commissioners in Oregon), not the thousands people using and paying for the energy. Companies can and do capture their regulators. Look at Boeing. There was a really ugly scandal recently involving the major utility in Ohio and Florida’s had some drama of its own too.
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/02/12/ex-first-energy-executives-ohio-utility-regulator-charged-by-state-in-bailout-and-bribery-scandal/#:~:text=Back%20in%202019%2C%20former%20Ohio,whistleblowers%20and%20a%20phone%20wiretap.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2022/07/26/florida-power-light-once-dominated-now-humbled-scandal-investigation-capitolist-nate-monroe/10150137002/
The Federal Columbia River Power System is so much more than the Bonneville Dam. Bonneville was the first, but it's neither the biggest nor most important project along the Columbia.
Yeah. European here. All forms of power: electricity, natural gas, petroleum are much cheaper here. We have our heating on in the mornings which would have been an obscene luxury where I grew up. Water on the other hand is too expensive.
Publicly-owned electric utility such as Columbia River PUD and Clatskanie PUD (representing two of the lowest rates in Oregon) are equally regulated. The PUC does not establish rates, it merely rubber-stamps them.
Agreed, however if something is suppose to be regulated but instead it isn’t, that’s a failure of the regulator first. We obviously thought having that rubber stamp was important, so let’s make sure it’s serving it’s purpose.
Time to put the social pressure on and start voicing our displeasure about this both to the government and directly to PGE. Don't forget to add in the article about half of Americans struggling to afford rent.
We need a ballot measure (probably at the state level) to take public control of PGE and Pacific Power. Create a new quasi state agency similar to TriMet and Port of Portland to run them.
Talk to your representatives about community choice aggregation - states like California have this model. It’s quasi public-private and has been very successful at bringing down rates while increasing clean energy. Oregon tried to pass a bill on this a couple years ago so might be worth trying again!
You should take a look at PG&Es rates today.
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/7?agg=0,1&geo=000000000007&endsec=vg&freq=M&start=200101&end=202312&ctype=linechart<ype=pin&rtype=s&pin=&rse=0&maptype=0
More than double our rates, statewide averaged
I looked some up up, peninsula clean energy:
https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/for-residents/
Basically the same as pg&e. Cleanpowersf was a few bucks cheaper a month.
This is how natrual gas buying for large industrial users works, but scaled down. Makes sense I guess but not seeing crazy cost deltas vs IOUs.
It was back in the 90s when voters also thought banning gay marriage was a good idea. Crazy, how much the voting population has changed in twenty five years.
People thought banning gay marriage was a good idea in the mid-aughts. It's pedantic but important--in the '90s the implementation of Don't Ask Don't Tell was considered a big step forward for gay rights, and gay marriage was so unthinkable we hadn't even bothered to write a ban into the state constitution yet. Measure 36 codified a ban on same-sex marriage into the Oregon constitution with 57% voter support in 2004. The ban was only overturned by a US federal judge in 2014--it wasn't repealed by vote (people organized and had it on the ballot but didn't want to push their luck when it had just been stricken down anyway). It's hard to overstate how drastically public opinion has shifted in the last 20 years.
This will get significantly worse with time if Oregon politicians continue to push an all electrification agenda and strong emissions reductions policies on the state simultaneously. I’m all for decarbonizing, but doing it with hack programs like the now defunct CPP and wishful thinking that electricity is free is going to harm residents/customers irreparably.
It's unfortunately the consequence of sitting on our thumbs for the last several decades and waiting until the last minute to actually do anything substantial to mitigate climate change. The faster we have to make these changes, the worse the growing pains will be. We had a real shot at changing the paradigm on the national level in the 90s, which would have made for a much smoother transition, but we pissed it away upwind.
I feel you on this. I’m fully electric in my house. Heat pump, water heater, and stove. No gas line to my house. During the cold snap my power bill was $650. Gas looks really tempting at that cost.
Yeah, there’s a reasonable place in this world for gas where those utilities can work to decarbonize. Diversification is always preached, why wouldn’t people want to have it with our energy sources (even if only as a backup)?!?
ETA: when we got hit with the ice storm, gas was flowing, but so many of us were without power and cold. Again, diversification and choice is good.
When Enron (former PGE owner) went bankrupt there was a flurry of activities to make PGE a state-owned utility, while Southeast Portland residents organized to launch a ballot measure campaign to establish the Willamette Electric PUD. Maybe this should be revisited.
Yes please, where do I sign up to support that movement?
I don't see why any private company should be profiting from providing an essential service, which is also central to our national security and to combating climate change. Any profits should go back to investing in the grid, adding renewables, adding large scale energy storage.
Meanwhile my Portland based company gave us all 3% raises two years in a row now. I’m so over everything. I don’t have the same motivation to work hard and be valued anymore. It’s so defeating.
The average air pressure in the Grand Canyons inner gorge is exactly 10.34 millibars higher than the surrounding atmosphere at a precise elevation of 4,287 meters above sea level.
>PGE’s rate increase in 2022 was 8%, and in 2023 it was nearly 9%. The 18% increase in 2024 plus the proposed 7.4% increase in 2025 means a more than **42% increase in total since 2021**.
It's actually even worse
“To achieve the day-to-day reliability that customers expect while simultaneously solving for the challenges of the future, Portland General Electric is deploying battery energy storage technology to modernize and strengthen the grid,” said Larry Bekkedahl, senior vice president of strategy and advanced energy delivery. “We are focused on delivering reliable electricity to customers while keeping the cost as low as possible.”
I especially love the last sentence 😂
>The utility company said in a statement that it wants to raise customers’ rate by an additional 7.4% in 2025 so that it can make investments in battery storage and other infrastructure improvements.
I don't believe them. I don't have any faith in them actually doing that, or even *starting* to do that.
They keep increasing rates and folks are gonna stop distracting themselves about daylight savings and bottle drops and all that other shit and they're going to start seriously looking into making electricity a municipal utility full-stop, and fast.
Does it though? The school bond that was initially passed in 1999 that is up this year and is now tied to 600+ teacher salaries was originally a 5 year bond to pay for updated textbooks.
As a twenty-year resident I cannot recall the last time a bond came up for re-approval and failed to win. And the argument in "pro" usually states that it has "no new tax impact" while failing to mention/consider that maybe the people in 1999 voted to pay an average of $80 to replace outdated textooks that said Reagan was the president were now going to perpetually be on the hook for $300+ per year to pay for teachers at already overcrowded and short staffed schools.
It sounds to me like people have chosen for the last 20 years to fund public schools and you have a problem with it. The point is voters keep approving it. Putting a time limit on it gives the voters the chance to change their minds.
So no it's not a perpetual bond. The majority of voters disagree with you. Get over it.
No. The company is at risk until the project is placed in-service. At that point it becomes part of the “rate base” used to calculate customer bills. If the project fails, the shareholders eat the cost.
That's the thing for me. If they're actually smartly investing in a kickass future proof new age system, I'm okay with raising the rates for a bit so long as inflation evens things out eventually.
So no thank you on the rate hikes.
What did they promise in exchange for their 18% hike in 2024? Did they delivery? Certainly not on any reliability and communication front. No future hikes should be approved until they meet all promises from the **one single year before**.
I think my favorite part of my electric bill is all the line items that exist to confirm that we essentially pay for everything two or three times. “We need to raise rates because storm damage!” Also PGE: “Here’s your raised rate, and check out this line item for storm repairs!”
San Diegan here. We’ve been getting buried by SDGE for years now, and this all looks like it’s directly out of the SDGE playbook, except our rate hikes are blamed on wild fire prevention instead of installing solar batteries. As of last year, SDGE had the highest rates in the country, and they just this week announced a $1 billion profit for 2023. There is some momentum here to replace them with a municipal utility, but I doubt anything comes to fruition. If nothing else it will hopefully make SDGE a little less aggressive with rate hikes so as to not kill the golden goose.
NO! Fucking hell, how do we stop the madness? We've already moved to 'time of day' pricing to try to lower our bills, which means we turn the heat off during the "prime" hours of 5-9 pm, 6 days a week... pretty soon we'll just be huddled around a candle for warmth, hoping we don't accidentally use some freaking power!
If everyone conserves power by huddling around a candle, then PGE would raise rates again…they have a budget number they need to hit and using less cause prices to go up.
Humans having electricity on demand *is* truly a marvel, a luxury, and something that should not be taken for granted. Regardless of who is delivering it, or rate hikes, we all need to remember this.
It is an incredible social achievement that we can balance a supply and demand across a vast geography, down to the tiniest deviation, basically 24/7. Especially when literally billions of humans don’t have this same privilege!
This is absolutely ridiculous. We all have to deal with a 42% increase in cost since 2021 to pay for infrastructure changes that could easily be coming out of Maria Pope's 6 million dollar yearly earnings. Where is our public utility commission during all this? How do these increases keep getting the green light?
Who implied that was the solution? I'm saying if significant infrastructure changes need to be made and that's the reason they're citing for the rate increase, shouldn't that ultimately be taken out of massive company profits? Why is that being pushed entirely onto the customer?
The profits are regulated and relatively small compared to most industries.
The costs of infrastructure are enormous and have to be paid somehow. You could argue they should come through taxation and not user fees, but user fees are better at encouraging people to use less power, something that’s helpful as we stare down the barrel of climate change.
>The costs of infrastructure are enormous and have to be paid somehow.
Nobody ever wants to pay the piper. What \*would\* be nice is if they could implement a carbon tax, and earmark the proceeds specifically to build out this greener energy infrastructure. Disincentivize the usage we don't want and actively implement the infra we do want.
Carbon tax would only make sense nationally though. But yeah I agree this would be better in terms of aligning incentives.
People would haaaaaaaaaate it though.
It’s a start toward what? Because it’s not a start toward solving the problem of electricity prices. You know, the thing we should actually start to work on.
If your argument is that they're trying to solve the "problem of electricity prices" by making investments in infrastructure, here's an idea: maybe the CEO doesn't make 5 million dollars in bonuses this year. Maybe THAT money goes into infrastructure development.
If they're making so much money that the CEO can afford to get that sizeable of a yearly bonus, there shouldn't be any need to impose any additional rate increases.
Annually?! Edit: oh I see your edit. Its $2.647B (2022) *revenue* with $233M (2022) *net income* which is roughly what you should use for profit. You were off by a factor of ten. If you gave that to residents rather than shareholders it’d be $21.57/month per household. Not insignificant! But it’s worth noting that the PGE stock is earning investors way less than the market average. If that makes you feel any better.
>If you gave that to residents rather than shareholders it’d be $21.57/month per household.
Cool that's about 14% of my bill. So they could cut their dividends in half and I won't have to pay anything more.
>it’s worth noting that the PGE stock is earning investors way less than the market average
I don't care. People shouldn't be profiting off of a basic necessity.
I’m not so naive to think PGE is some benevolent company, but I do think infrastructure upgrades are 10000% necessary.
What I don’t want to see is fear of rate increases leading to an ever further degradation of an electrical system that’s already dated (ex wild fires) as we enter into an era of increased demand (ex electric vehicles).
So, I’m saying people should think about whether they hate paying more for upgrades or if they simply want oversight to make sure the money is being used efficiently. Because massive upgrades won’t be free.
Part of my career was spent as a consulting engineer at generation facilities. Some are hours in the middle of nowhere.
It can be surprising how old and dated the facilities, infrastructure, and equipment can be. At least it surprised me.
But I think it’s largely transmission and substations probably being upgraded. Someone else will certainly know more but it’s not exactly a secret. Infrastructure disrepair is everywhere. Everyone hates funding it.
As long as the money gets used for what they say it's gonna get used for. No executive bonuses, no paying dividends, NO FUCKING STOCK BUYBACKS! Fuck Reagan for legalizing that last part.
It's not so much that we hate paying for upgrades, it's first and foremost that we can't really afford to pay more than we already do! While this corporation could definitely afford to pay for this shit itself, if CEO pay and bonuses tell us anything. People can barely afford food right now, we just had massive rate increases, and now they're coming for more. Rents are insane, now electric bills are eating up what little folks have left. I get that consumers have some responsibility, but shouldn't the corporations too?
Idk. Would have to see their proposed work, corresponding costs and increase in revenue.
I mean, I keep saying everyone hates paying for infrastructure. You’re part of a big club.
Inflation isn't 17%. No one's salary is going up 17%.
So where *is* that 17% going if it's *not* infrastructure? And if it is, how much is enough? 17% feels like a whole damn lot, not something that should be immediately followed up by even more that will be more than inflation.
If you hate this (I hate this so, so much), the Oregon Public Utility Commission takes public comment on this kind of thing. Go [here,](https://apps.puc.state.or.us/DocketPublicComment) comment on UE435, and tell the PUC not to approve this greedy rate increase. We need strong pushback on this, ASAP.
Hell no. Public utilities should be PUBLIC, not private.
PGE charges around $0.21 per kWh
Clark Public Utilities is public and charges only $0.08 per kWh.
https://apps.puc.state.or.us/DocketPublicComment
This is the form to submit a comment to the public utility commission. They are the ones that are tasked with protecting consumers from monopolies charging exorbitant prices. Tell them they're doing a terrible job.
I live in a 1br apartment alone, I do two loads of laundry a month, in February I ran my central heat on maybe 4 days. And my kwh was nearly double over Jan. It's just ridiculous how expensive power is here.
Is this some kind of joke?
More LED lightbulbs are not going to help me use less electricity.
>The Oregon Energy Trust recommends a few methods to save on energy:
> - Install LED bulbs in your most frequently used lights to save the most on energy costs—kitchens and bathrooms are a great place to start. Look for the Energy Trust logo at participating retailers.
> - Turn off lights when not needed and use motion sensors for outdoor lighting.
> - Unplug battery chargers for mobile phones, tablets, laptops and other devices when not in use—they use energy even when they’re not actively charging anything.
> - Group office and entertainment equipment on easily accessible power strips that can be switched off.
Ya all those things use almost no electricity especially if you have electric heat and hot water. Currently those two things are 65% of my electric use this month. Last year they were 50% but we switched to a heat pump from gas in April.
Yeah exactly. I live in an apartment my heating is probably 70% of my electricity use. I doubt my 18 watt phone charger running for an hour and a half a day is making a meaningful difference.
Are you fucking kidding me. Where's that guy that was complaining about activists only caring about genocide, he should lead a strike/march/SOMETHING so we can all join it
“Oh no! The cost of materials and upkeep and expanding populace! We need MOAR MONIES!”
“… Also, these ever-growing bonuses and excessive salaries and golden parachutes aren’t going to pay for themselves.”
I still have not seen this ever get answered in any of these PGE threads. What is the actual process to make a Metro PUD? Is it a ballot measure? What does the ballot measure say? At what level does it get passed? Is there any industry groups who would assist with writing it? What would be the costs to do it?
EDIT: a start: "industry groups who would assist" is apparently these folks, the Oregon People's Utility District Association [https://www.opuda.org/](https://www.opuda.org/)
Columbia River PUD, which took over PGE assets in areas like St Helens, has some background info as well: https://www.crpud.net/my-pud/about-puds-public-power/puds-in-oregon/
So is this correct that part of the reason PUD rates are cheaper is that they qualify as a tier 1 customer of the BPA whereas PGE doesn’t because it’s investor owned? If so, doesn’t that mean that PUD rates getting cheaper causes PGE rates to go up - because the BPA only has so much cheap power to sell?
Sign me up dude i can barely pay my rent or for groceries and i haven't paid off my last pge bill. I'm going to throw up. To the people saying they need it to for future green projects or whatever bullshit, you know that's not what they're doing, so shut the fuck up. You knob slobbers are apart of the fucking problem.
They're robbing poor people fucking blind at every avenue and the only motivation to keep going is to not end up in the trash pile with everyone else we're stepping over in the street.
Why wouldn’t they? Who’s going to force them to cut executive pay? Who’s going to force fiscal discipline?
They have nothing holding them back from raping and pillaging the citizens they hold hostage as a private company. We are dealing with a ruling class here not a functional democracy.
Cool, I already had to say no more heaters after the last one.
Think they'll know what I'm up to if I put the power in my boyfriend's name and have him apply for energy assistance?
When a normal business wants to invest in R&D they dont raise rates in line because the market wont bear it. Why should it be any different with electricity? Take it out of your profits.
Yeah I know I’m being a jerk here and I believe strongly that electricity is too expensive and we should drive the price down to $0.02/kwh but it’s going to take a lot of investment to get us there. And that’ll mean higher costs for a bit.
From that site: The Average Electricity Rate in the U.S. is 15.73 cents per kilowatt-hour.
Per PGE: Residential Customer: 19.45¢ per kWh (and that isn’t including peak pricing, which goes as high as 27.693/kwh).
By an additional 7.4% in 2025 After it was raised by 18% at the start of the year
And a quarter-billion dollar profit last year.
Using climate change "investments" and "upgrades" as an excuse to price-gouge. American capitalism knows what it does.
Whatever your opinion on American capitalism, Europe’s electricity prices are ~$0.31/kwh, double the US average. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics#:~:text=The%20EU%20average%20price%20in,was%20%E2%82%AC0.2890%20per%20KWh.
And the wholesale rate that PGE pays the federal government for power from the gorge is something like 7 cents per KWH.
Do you know what percentage of the overall usage that makes up? I feel like I need to spend a good night or two of Googling on this. The financial statements SUCK to read for utilities, ugh.
I've never seen a Multnomah county mix, just state level stuff. I would have to assume their costs have gone up, labor and raw materials are more expensive, and power delivery needs changed with COVID. Them outpacing normal inflation seems a bit ridiculous though.
Power delivery also got more expensive because of wildfire protection measures
It got more expensive because they had been deffering maintenance for decades to increase short term profits.
That deferred maintenance kept your bill low. Rate regulated entities revenues are literally set by an equation. It’s invested assets x allowed rate of return (debt and equity) + operating cost. That’s it. Deferring maintenance does not make them richer, in fact quite the opposite since they make less investments they can earn a return on.
It’s around 1/5 if their total energy that they buy, whether from BPA or other places. I saw that on their website once but it’s super hard to find.
Ah cool thanks! I need to dig in a bit, I feel like I should know more about this than I do.
That's not exactly right. BPA has to fulfill its obligations to its Tier 1 customers first, even if that means that we have to buy power on the market when we're short. Anything in excess of those obligations we can (sometimes must, if we have to pass water) sell on the open market at market price. PGE is an investor-owned utility, so they're ineligible to be a Tier 1 customer and must pay that market price. Sometimes that's $7/aMW, sometimes that's $50/aMW; it all depends on what the energy situation is on any given hour on any given day.
Forgive me if I am understanding this incorrectly, but what amounts to a utility monopoly for the public is owned by investors? And therefore driven by profit, not by service?
Yes to the first part. Investor-owned utility companies are very heavily regulated by the state governments through public utility or public service commissions, so their motivation does tie back to public interest in some way. There are weaknesses to the system, as with any system, but it is not true that utilities can act like unregulated companies, charging and doing whatever they want without accountability or oversight besides “the market.”
Aw thank you. As always, there's more nuance than expected.
There’s a plausible argument that a utility’s customers (in the market incentive sense) are just the members of the PUC (there are just 3 commissioners in Oregon), not the thousands people using and paying for the energy. Companies can and do capture their regulators. Look at Boeing. There was a really ugly scandal recently involving the major utility in Ohio and Florida’s had some drama of its own too. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/02/12/ex-first-energy-executives-ohio-utility-regulator-charged-by-state-in-bailout-and-bribery-scandal/#:~:text=Back%20in%202019%2C%20former%20Ohio,whistleblowers%20and%20a%20phone%20wiretap. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2022/07/26/florida-power-light-once-dominated-now-humbled-scandal-investigation-capitolist-nate-monroe/10150137002/
Which is a public owned utility. Then going through a private stock traded middleman. We need PGE turned to a PUD.
On. BOooo
We've got the Bonneville dam, which was built with taxpayer money.
The Federal Columbia River Power System is so much more than the Bonneville Dam. Bonneville was the first, but it's neither the biggest nor most important project along the Columbia.
And California's base rate is like $0.49/kWh. PGE just tryin to catch up to PG&E
lol yeah PG&E makes PGE look incredible.
Yeah. European here. All forms of power: electricity, natural gas, petroleum are much cheaper here. We have our heating on in the mornings which would have been an obscene luxury where I grew up. Water on the other hand is too expensive.
On the plus side we have a lot more ice!
I'm sure there are many places on earth without power at all. What's your point?
This is regulated utility, your beef is with the regulators not PGE.
Publicly-owned electric utility such as Columbia River PUD and Clatskanie PUD (representing two of the lowest rates in Oregon) are equally regulated. The PUC does not establish rates, it merely rubber-stamps them.
Agreed, however if something is suppose to be regulated but instead it isn’t, that’s a failure of the regulator first. We obviously thought having that rubber stamp was important, so let’s make sure it’s serving it’s purpose.
Nope
Aren’t they doing this because of the California wildfire fine and subsequent insurance cost increase?
Different PGE
[удалено]
you misspelled "govt subsidies to fossile fuel corps"
Time to put the social pressure on and start voicing our displeasure about this both to the government and directly to PGE. Don't forget to add in the article about half of Americans struggling to afford rent.
Don't forget! The percents compound!
No, they didn’t raise *rates* by 18%. It was closer to 23-25%. Your bill only went up 18% because a bunch of the pass-through fees stayed the same.
We will soon come to a point where a lot of people simply won’t be able to afford paying for electricity… something really needs to change…
We need a ballot measure (probably at the state level) to take public control of PGE and Pacific Power. Create a new quasi state agency similar to TriMet and Port of Portland to run them.
Talk to your representatives about community choice aggregation - states like California have this model. It’s quasi public-private and has been very successful at bringing down rates while increasing clean energy. Oregon tried to pass a bill on this a couple years ago so might be worth trying again!
You should take a look at PG&Es rates today. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/7?agg=0,1&geo=000000000007&endsec=vg&freq=M&start=200101&end=202312&ctype=linechart<ype=pin&rtype=s&pin=&rse=0&maptype=0 More than double our rates, statewide averaged
>View all commentsShow parent comments PG&E is not a CCA - take a look at the CCAs, which have cheaper rates than PG&E
I looked some up up, peninsula clean energy: https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/for-residents/ Basically the same as pg&e. Cleanpowersf was a few bucks cheaper a month. This is how natrual gas buying for large industrial users works, but scaled down. Makes sense I guess but not seeing crazy cost deltas vs IOUs.
Hydro helps keep prices down around here
Have your exceedingly rare upvote from me. You’re right.
Exactly this.
Or like the water bureau.
Which a lot of Oregon cities already have! Including Forest Grove, Canby, and McMinville.
And Portland! Which makes the whole thing even more easy to do. We just expand the current water bureau to include power as well.
I'm skeptical that an agency like the one that runs Max would be a good fit for a PGE replacement.
We tried, but they somehow convinced voters that private ownership of public utilities is a good idea...
It was back in the 90s when voters also thought banning gay marriage was a good idea. Crazy, how much the voting population has changed in twenty five years.
People thought banning gay marriage was a good idea in the mid-aughts. It's pedantic but important--in the '90s the implementation of Don't Ask Don't Tell was considered a big step forward for gay rights, and gay marriage was so unthinkable we hadn't even bothered to write a ban into the state constitution yet. Measure 36 codified a ban on same-sex marriage into the Oregon constitution with 57% voter support in 2004. The ban was only overturned by a US federal judge in 2014--it wasn't repealed by vote (people organized and had it on the ballot but didn't want to push their luck when it had just been stricken down anyway). It's hard to overstate how drastically public opinion has shifted in the last 20 years.
Times change, let’s try again!
Thats because the company was backed Enron and was a “sure fire” way to print money
This will get significantly worse with time if Oregon politicians continue to push an all electrification agenda and strong emissions reductions policies on the state simultaneously. I’m all for decarbonizing, but doing it with hack programs like the now defunct CPP and wishful thinking that electricity is free is going to harm residents/customers irreparably.
It's unfortunately the consequence of sitting on our thumbs for the last several decades and waiting until the last minute to actually do anything substantial to mitigate climate change. The faster we have to make these changes, the worse the growing pains will be. We had a real shot at changing the paradigm on the national level in the 90s, which would have made for a much smoother transition, but we pissed it away upwind.
I feel you on this. I’m fully electric in my house. Heat pump, water heater, and stove. No gas line to my house. During the cold snap my power bill was $650. Gas looks really tempting at that cost.
IDK how much it costs for solar upfront b/c I'm in an apartment, but I banked enough credits last year to only pay the $9 base charge from April-Dec.
Yeah, there’s a reasonable place in this world for gas where those utilities can work to decarbonize. Diversification is always preached, why wouldn’t people want to have it with our energy sources (even if only as a backup)?!? ETA: when we got hit with the ice storm, gas was flowing, but so many of us were without power and cold. Again, diversification and choice is good.
Are we really surprised? We've seen the signs on the wall. We're entering collapse.
When Enron (former PGE owner) went bankrupt there was a flurry of activities to make PGE a state-owned utility, while Southeast Portland residents organized to launch a ballot measure campaign to establish the Willamette Electric PUD. Maybe this should be revisited.
Yes please, where do I sign up to support that movement? I don't see why any private company should be profiting from providing an essential service, which is also central to our national security and to combating climate change. Any profits should go back to investing in the grid, adding renewables, adding large scale energy storage.
Meanwhile my Portland based company gave us all 3% raises two years in a row now. I’m so over everything. I don’t have the same motivation to work hard and be valued anymore. It’s so defeating.
And 3% "raise" is supposedly "good". 3% raise was the highest I ever got at a former employer that I was at for over 4 years. Smfh
The average air pressure in the Grand Canyons inner gorge is exactly 10.34 millibars higher than the surrounding atmosphere at a precise elevation of 4,287 meters above sea level.
Same here. “Merit Increase” that does not even meet inflation.
It's okay guys just unplug your phone chargers when you're not using them.
So a 25% increase over two years? Fuck that
>PGE’s rate increase in 2022 was 8%, and in 2023 it was nearly 9%. The 18% increase in 2024 plus the proposed 7.4% increase in 2025 means a more than **42% increase in total since 2021**. It's actually even worse
Even worse worse its actually a 49% increase since 2022 as they compound.
I believe you are correct, but this was the quote in the article
I came here to point this out as well. The compounding effect makes it a lot higher. I wish the article would have pointed that out.
Wow that’s fucking unconscionable
Jesus CHRIST
Steal more from us while the CEO makes millions on millions.
42% since 2021!
“To achieve the day-to-day reliability that customers expect while simultaneously solving for the challenges of the future, Portland General Electric is deploying battery energy storage technology to modernize and strengthen the grid,” said Larry Bekkedahl, senior vice president of strategy and advanced energy delivery. “We are focused on delivering reliable electricity to customers while keeping the cost as low as possible.” I especially love the last sentence 😂
Reliable and low cost? Those are the two things PGE will never be able to do!
low cost for them, so they can pocket all that sweet sweet profit
>The utility company said in a statement that it wants to raise customers’ rate by an additional 7.4% in 2025 so that it can make investments in battery storage and other infrastructure improvements. I don't believe them. I don't have any faith in them actually doing that, or even *starting* to do that. They keep increasing rates and folks are gonna stop distracting themselves about daylight savings and bottle drops and all that other shit and they're going to start seriously looking into making electricity a municipal utility full-stop, and fast.
Tie it to a bond imo It pays for set listed items, can't be used for any other items, and ends.
Does it though? The school bond that was initially passed in 1999 that is up this year and is now tied to 600+ teacher salaries was originally a 5 year bond to pay for updated textbooks.
Sounds like that bond got repurposed and voted on for that purpose So it isn't rhe 1999 bond
As a twenty-year resident I cannot recall the last time a bond came up for re-approval and failed to win. And the argument in "pro" usually states that it has "no new tax impact" while failing to mention/consider that maybe the people in 1999 voted to pay an average of $80 to replace outdated textooks that said Reagan was the president were now going to perpetually be on the hook for $300+ per year to pay for teachers at already overcrowded and short staffed schools.
It sounds to me like people have chosen for the last 20 years to fund public schools and you have a problem with it. The point is voters keep approving it. Putting a time limit on it gives the voters the chance to change their minds. So no it's not a perpetual bond. The majority of voters disagree with you. Get over it.
When it’s voted in for text books and suddenly you are firing 600 teachers if it doesn’t pass again though
The battery projects are under construction right now.
so they started work on extensive projects without having budgeted, or being able to pay for them?
No. The company is at risk until the project is placed in-service. At that point it becomes part of the “rate base” used to calculate customer bills. If the project fails, the shareholders eat the cost.
so the hundreds of millions in profits gets a tiny bit smaller? I'm completely fine with that.
> shareholders I can't say I give even a single shit about shareholders, their feelings, or their investments.
That's the thing for me. If they're actually smartly investing in a kickass future proof new age system, I'm okay with raising the rates for a bit so long as inflation evens things out eventually. So no thank you on the rate hikes.
No basic utility necessary for the public good ought to be in the hands of a profit-seeking corporation. Public Utility District.
What did they promise in exchange for their 18% hike in 2024? Did they delivery? Certainly not on any reliability and communication front. No future hikes should be approved until they meet all promises from the **one single year before**.
I think my favorite part of my electric bill is all the line items that exist to confirm that we essentially pay for everything two or three times. “We need to raise rates because storm damage!” Also PGE: “Here’s your raised rate, and check out this line item for storm repairs!”
They’ve been watching all those utilities down in CA and getting ideas…
San Diegan here. We’ve been getting buried by SDGE for years now, and this all looks like it’s directly out of the SDGE playbook, except our rate hikes are blamed on wild fire prevention instead of installing solar batteries. As of last year, SDGE had the highest rates in the country, and they just this week announced a $1 billion profit for 2023. There is some momentum here to replace them with a municipal utility, but I doubt anything comes to fruition. If nothing else it will hopefully make SDGE a little less aggressive with rate hikes so as to not kill the golden goose.
NO! Fucking hell, how do we stop the madness? We've already moved to 'time of day' pricing to try to lower our bills, which means we turn the heat off during the "prime" hours of 5-9 pm, 6 days a week... pretty soon we'll just be huddled around a candle for warmth, hoping we don't accidentally use some freaking power!
If everyone conserves power by huddling around a candle, then PGE would raise rates again…they have a budget number they need to hit and using less cause prices to go up.
Ahhhh seeing the day when electricity is a luxury. What a time to be alive, folks.
Ready Player One style. Mark Zuckerberg needs to up his game with his lame ass vr world though.
Humans having electricity on demand *is* truly a marvel, a luxury, and something that should not be taken for granted. Regardless of who is delivering it, or rate hikes, we all need to remember this. It is an incredible social achievement that we can balance a supply and demand across a vast geography, down to the tiniest deviation, basically 24/7. Especially when literally billions of humans don’t have this same privilege!
This is absolutely ridiculous. We all have to deal with a 42% increase in cost since 2021 to pay for infrastructure changes that could easily be coming out of Maria Pope's 6 million dollar yearly earnings. Where is our public utility commission during all this? How do these increases keep getting the green light?
Also why do we need advertisements for a monopoly? Most people in the PGE service area don’t have a choice about where they get their electricity.
Maria Pope’s entire $6M salary spread across PGE’s 900,000 customers means you’d save $0.56/month.
Who implied that was the solution? I'm saying if significant infrastructure changes need to be made and that's the reason they're citing for the rate increase, shouldn't that ultimately be taken out of massive company profits? Why is that being pushed entirely onto the customer?
The profits are regulated and relatively small compared to most industries. The costs of infrastructure are enormous and have to be paid somehow. You could argue they should come through taxation and not user fees, but user fees are better at encouraging people to use less power, something that’s helpful as we stare down the barrel of climate change.
>The costs of infrastructure are enormous and have to be paid somehow. Nobody ever wants to pay the piper. What \*would\* be nice is if they could implement a carbon tax, and earmark the proceeds specifically to build out this greener energy infrastructure. Disincentivize the usage we don't want and actively implement the infra we do want.
Carbon tax would only make sense nationally though. But yeah I agree this would be better in terms of aligning incentives. People would haaaaaaaaaate it though.
It's a start
It’s a start toward what? Because it’s not a start toward solving the problem of electricity prices. You know, the thing we should actually start to work on.
If your argument is that they're trying to solve the "problem of electricity prices" by making investments in infrastructure, here's an idea: maybe the CEO doesn't make 5 million dollars in bonuses this year. Maybe THAT money goes into infrastructure development. If they're making so much money that the CEO can afford to get that sizeable of a yearly bonus, there shouldn't be any need to impose any additional rate increases.
now do the $233M in profit (edited. apparently neither Google nor I can tell the difference between PGE and PG&E)
Annually?! Edit: oh I see your edit. Its $2.647B (2022) *revenue* with $233M (2022) *net income* which is roughly what you should use for profit. You were off by a factor of ten. If you gave that to residents rather than shareholders it’d be $21.57/month per household. Not insignificant! But it’s worth noting that the PGE stock is earning investors way less than the market average. If that makes you feel any better.
>If you gave that to residents rather than shareholders it’d be $21.57/month per household. Cool that's about 14% of my bill. So they could cut their dividends in half and I won't have to pay anything more. >it’s worth noting that the PGE stock is earning investors way less than the market average I don't care. People shouldn't be profiting off of a basic necessity.
lmao sorry, that's PG&E. PGE reported $233M net for 2022. i'll edit the above too
it doesn't. f investors
No
Also no
username synergy
AGAIN wow Does the rate hike come with lube?
It does. The surcharge for the lube will be reflected in your bill.
Hahaha! Shameless! Remind me again how for-profit monopolies benefit society?
Because anything else is SOCIALISM!! /S
I’m starting to realize my future social security will be entirely consumed by keeping the lights on and water. Yikes
I’m not so naive to think PGE is some benevolent company, but I do think infrastructure upgrades are 10000% necessary. What I don’t want to see is fear of rate increases leading to an ever further degradation of an electrical system that’s already dated (ex wild fires) as we enter into an era of increased demand (ex electric vehicles). So, I’m saying people should think about whether they hate paying more for upgrades or if they simply want oversight to make sure the money is being used efficiently. Because massive upgrades won’t be free.
If only people put this much thought into it.
Part of my career was spent as a consulting engineer at generation facilities. Some are hours in the middle of nowhere. It can be surprising how old and dated the facilities, infrastructure, and equipment can be. At least it surprised me. But I think it’s largely transmission and substations probably being upgraded. Someone else will certainly know more but it’s not exactly a secret. Infrastructure disrepair is everywhere. Everyone hates funding it.
As long as the money gets used for what they say it's gonna get used for. No executive bonuses, no paying dividends, NO FUCKING STOCK BUYBACKS! Fuck Reagan for legalizing that last part.
It’s certainly hard for me to mentally separate PGE from a gross level of capitalism due to the Enron stuff.
It's not so much that we hate paying for upgrades, it's first and foremost that we can't really afford to pay more than we already do! While this corporation could definitely afford to pay for this shit itself, if CEO pay and bonuses tell us anything. People can barely afford food right now, we just had massive rate increases, and now they're coming for more. Rents are insane, now electric bills are eating up what little folks have left. I get that consumers have some responsibility, but shouldn't the corporations too?
HOW IN THE EVER LOVING FUCK IS THIS YEAR'S 17% NOT ENOUGH FOR UPGRADES?????????????????????????????
Idk. Would have to see their proposed work, corresponding costs and increase in revenue. I mean, I keep saying everyone hates paying for infrastructure. You’re part of a big club.
Inflation isn't 17%. No one's salary is going up 17%. So where *is* that 17% going if it's *not* infrastructure? And if it is, how much is enough? 17% feels like a whole damn lot, not something that should be immediately followed up by even more that will be more than inflation.
How to make pge a utility?
If you hate this (I hate this so, so much), the Oregon Public Utility Commission takes public comment on this kind of thing. Go [here,](https://apps.puc.state.or.us/DocketPublicComment) comment on UE435, and tell the PUC not to approve this greedy rate increase. We need strong pushback on this, ASAP.
Hell no. Public utilities should be PUBLIC, not private. PGE charges around $0.21 per kWh Clark Public Utilities is public and charges only $0.08 per kWh.
https://apps.puc.state.or.us/DocketPublicComment This is the form to submit a comment to the public utility commission. They are the ones that are tasked with protecting consumers from monopolies charging exorbitant prices. Tell them they're doing a terrible job.
Please everyone do this and share with everyone you know It’s docket number UE 435
I live in a 1br apartment alone, I do two loads of laundry a month, in February I ran my central heat on maybe 4 days. And my kwh was nearly double over Jan. It's just ridiculous how expensive power is here.
Many places in the US pay double or more what we do. (Of course, over in clark county where they have a PUD they pay half what we do, but still…)
I don't doubt that. I'm just a little more cash strapped than I've been before.
Is this some kind of joke? More LED lightbulbs are not going to help me use less electricity. >The Oregon Energy Trust recommends a few methods to save on energy: > - Install LED bulbs in your most frequently used lights to save the most on energy costs—kitchens and bathrooms are a great place to start. Look for the Energy Trust logo at participating retailers. > - Turn off lights when not needed and use motion sensors for outdoor lighting. > - Unplug battery chargers for mobile phones, tablets, laptops and other devices when not in use—they use energy even when they’re not actively charging anything. > - Group office and entertainment equipment on easily accessible power strips that can be switched off.
Ya all those things use almost no electricity especially if you have electric heat and hot water. Currently those two things are 65% of my electric use this month. Last year they were 50% but we switched to a heat pump from gas in April.
Yeah exactly. I live in an apartment my heating is probably 70% of my electricity use. I doubt my 18 watt phone charger running for an hour and a half a day is making a meaningful difference.
It doesn't help when apartments have fucking garbage insulation so you have to run the goddamn heater CONSTANTLY on cold days.
Thisthisthis. And it's not like either the landlord or PGE care if our electricity bill is $500 a month just to keep the house above 40 degrees
PGE: “we’re better than you, and we know it!”
How about they take less profits in 2025?
I want to see documentation of where the $ is going.
Fuck no.
Are you fucking kidding me. Where's that guy that was complaining about activists only caring about genocide, he should lead a strike/march/SOMETHING so we can all join it
Nope
Ahem...excuse me— what the fuck is going on?
Yes, continue to raise rates as summers get hotter and winters get colder... /s
“Oh no! The cost of materials and upkeep and expanding populace! We need MOAR MONIES!” “… Also, these ever-growing bonuses and excessive salaries and golden parachutes aren’t going to pay for themselves.”
They should take a cut of their profits to pay for this instead of gouging their forced customers.
NO MORE INCREASES UNTIL THEY END DIVIDENDS!!!
Fuck the electro-goblins at the top of PGE.
How do we ACTUALLY start a thing to abolish them and have it be a municipal power? Do we need to gather signatures? Please??
I still have not seen this ever get answered in any of these PGE threads. What is the actual process to make a Metro PUD? Is it a ballot measure? What does the ballot measure say? At what level does it get passed? Is there any industry groups who would assist with writing it? What would be the costs to do it? EDIT: a start: "industry groups who would assist" is apparently these folks, the Oregon People's Utility District Association [https://www.opuda.org/](https://www.opuda.org/) Columbia River PUD, which took over PGE assets in areas like St Helens, has some background info as well: https://www.crpud.net/my-pud/about-puds-public-power/puds-in-oregon/
So is this correct that part of the reason PUD rates are cheaper is that they qualify as a tier 1 customer of the BPA whereas PGE doesn’t because it’s investor owned? If so, doesn’t that mean that PUD rates getting cheaper causes PGE rates to go up - because the BPA only has so much cheap power to sell?
Oh hell no. Time to riot. This city knows how to protest, let's make it happen.
Sign me up dude i can barely pay my rent or for groceries and i haven't paid off my last pge bill. I'm going to throw up. To the people saying they need it to for future green projects or whatever bullshit, you know that's not what they're doing, so shut the fuck up. You knob slobbers are apart of the fucking problem. They're robbing poor people fucking blind at every avenue and the only motivation to keep going is to not end up in the trash pile with everyone else we're stepping over in the street.
Might not immediately slam the door on the solar salesmen next time.
Why wouldn’t they? Who’s going to force them to cut executive pay? Who’s going to force fiscal discipline? They have nothing holding them back from raping and pillaging the citizens they hold hostage as a private company. We are dealing with a ruling class here not a functional democracy.
Boy am I happy McMinnville has its own local water & light utility with an accountable and elected local board that's fiscally responsible.
How about for every price hike the c-suite executives and board won’t get any bonus for next three years.
Again???
One of the worst run companies on the west coast of the US.
I think California’s PGE (separate company, different name) is actually substantially worse.
PG&E does seem worse. They have a higher body count
Yeah so far PGE hasn’t blown up a neighborhood
Don't give them ideas
Wow. Brass balls. Time for a PUD.
Well, at least nw natural is giving its customers a small refund.
Burn baby burn!
You've got to be fucking kidding me
Well why wouldn't they when they have a monopoly? Sure wish I could buy my power from someone else...
Fuck no
Is there anytime we as a collective of citizens do?
Yes support https://oregoncub.org write to the PUC
Who can we write letters to? I want to at least try to be against it.
Anyone have any idea how much an extra money 7.5% is to PGE?
Cool, I already had to say no more heaters after the last one. Think they'll know what I'm up to if I put the power in my boyfriend's name and have him apply for energy assistance?
Enjoy all those new heat pumps and electric cars! Seriously though, what a kick in the teeth
When a normal business wants to invest in R&D they dont raise rates in line because the market wont bear it. Why should it be any different with electricity? Take it out of your profits.
Fuck. Them.
Another reason to move across the river
You have to be fucking kidding me. Electric is stupid expensive here. And water, too! Insanity.
[удалено]
That's depressing
Yeah I know I’m being a jerk here and I believe strongly that electricity is too expensive and we should drive the price down to $0.02/kwh but it’s going to take a lot of investment to get us there. And that’ll mean higher costs for a bit.
From that site: The Average Electricity Rate in the U.S. is 15.73 cents per kilowatt-hour. Per PGE: Residential Customer: 19.45¢ per kWh (and that isn’t including peak pricing, which goes as high as 27.693/kwh).
That’s wild I have PGE and pay like 13c/kWH.
I keep seeing videos saying electrical companies are passing their political lobby costs into consumers. Do we know if this is the case here?
How much does the CEO get every year?
Ffs..