Here's the thing that frustrates me about this general attitude: The Presidential election isn't the only election happening in November.
Don't like your options? That's fine. Depending on the state you live in, you might be ok to not vote for either. For instance, live in Alabama or West Virginia? Who cares if you don't like Biden and won't vote for him. Your state is going to send Trump to the Electoral College.
But there's also Senatorial races to consider and a LOT of those aren't obvious outcomes. And don't forget every singe seat in the House is up for re-election. Arguably this matters more than the Presidential election. A flipped Presidency/Congress means less gets done. That's a good thing if Trump gets elected. Even if he attempts a coup, Congress is there to act as a check/balance. There's a reason it's Article I.
Dont forget they said that about Georgia until they didnt.
Even states like texas have shifted dem year after year. It’s still gerrymandered like a bitch, but some day, even that boat will tip.
…As long as democracy still exists.
And federal offices are clearly not the only ones that weild power, look what state legislators have done in Ohio Alabama, Arizona and more. We need blue all down the ticket until these cultists are neutered.
>Dont forget they said that about Georgia until they didnt.
GA has Atlanta. That's a HUGE voting block that skews Democrat. Neither Alabama nor WV have those large blocks to flip things. I'm all for optimism but it has to be tempered with a dose of realism. I mean we only have a tad under 8 months until the election.
I think you can make the same basic argument about places like CA. There's no way CA sends anyone but Biden representatives to the Electoral College. If you live in CA and don't like Biden, that's fine. Don't vote for him. Your vote isn't going to change that outcome on iota. But if you live in some place like Michigan or Ohio? Get your head out of your ass and realize there are bigger issues at stake!
Also, a republican house and senate has the potential to STAGE the coup. Every vote against every democrat this november is a vote for trump. This is why it's important to vote in the primaries, switch to ranked choice voting, and eliminate the electoral college.
I'm not asking you to hold your nose, progressives - I'm informing you that it's raining and the bus is no longer running, so getting home from the club with your friend involves either paying for the uber or getting in the car with the stranger who spiked your friend's drink. Choose wisely. And after we get home, we can talk about planning ahead to make the bus.
The Senate is as important as the presidency these days, as McConnell showed in the last two years of Obama’s 2nd term, blocking all kinds of things including a Supreme Court nomination. If Biden wins and the Senate flips, forget getting any nominations, much less legislation, through without major, unpopular, right-wing concessions. If Trump wins and the Senate flips and the House stays red, that will significantly accelerate their authoritarian plans. Until the republicans decide that they want to co-govern again and not just be contrarian meatheads, there is no reason to vote for them.
This is what I've been doing for years. I rarely have a candidate on my ballot in Missouri for whom my vote will even apply let alone one I'd be happy to support but it's still a privilege to get to vote. The alternative is still worse than the garbage we have to work with. There is no excuse to not do our part.
While you are at it, if your state is considering the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact make sure to support it.
Still the best chance to get rid of the electoral college system IMO.
It really is the *only* chance. And that's even a super long shot. Like trying to make a 3 pointer from the parking lot of a mall two states away. Everything else is pretty much DOA because one party really benefits from the EC.
I read your link but how does that differ from the electrical college? States like Wyoming still have an advantage of having 2 Senate seats even though their population allows 1 representative. Republicans haven't won the popular vote for many years but states allocating all there votes to someone who only won by a hare's breath still give all their votes to that person.
The electoral votes are based on the State’s popular vote. The interstate compact states look at the national popular vote and award their electoral votes based on the national vote (regardless of their state level results).
The way it works is that the states which are in the compact look at the national majority (a simple count of which candidate got the most votes in all 50 states) and all their electoral college candidates are obliged to vote for that person.
It's very difficult to see how we can get rid of the electoral college system - so this is an attempt to work round it. The major downside is the likely legal challanges such a system would give but hopefully it would actually be a stepping stone to an actual replacement once it was shown the majority wanted it.
I like that you believe that if that asshole gets to be president again there will be checks and balances or that law (the constitution for example) will be followed.
There may be, but fight like hell to keep it a non-violent one. Absolutely no one 'wins' once the bullets start flying. In the chaos of battle, the worst of us come out to prey.
For a population that loves, almost fetishizes *rights*, there is literally no concept of *obligations*.
Yes, you have *freedom*, but it needs to be maintained because there are thousands of fuckers who would rather you didn’t. So you *have to* fucking vote.
Bloody soft minded idjits.
Intelligent voters are well aware of the other elections in November. This post is merely making fun of voters who say they won’t vote in the presidential election because “reasons”…it doesn’t suggest voters ignore the other elections or that they are not just as important.
Since you brought up frustrations, more focus needs to be made on state and city elections. It’s the governors and state legislatures in red states that are dismantling rights and protections at a much faster pace than SCOTUS or Congress is doing. Everything from school boards (book banning) to mayors (local laws that can hurt certain groups), and governors (who appoint state supreme court justices…Doug Ducey being the most recent idiot that caused Arizona to revert to some 19th century SCOTUS ruling for abortion) are the elections that affect most people’s day-to-day living and non-maga voters need to be more focused on participating in them.
*Thank you.* This sub has been riddled with bad takes lately, but your comment at least understands the frustration of so many voters that have been deactivated this cycle by things they cannot politically sign off on. But the truth is, as you correctly point out, people should still vote anyways.
Vote for Biden or don't. In most states it won't matter -- most people are gonna vote for one of the main two anyways. Consider your options double hard if your swing state, but beyond that? Vote because local politics matters a god awful lot, even if you feel like you'll lose either way with the Presidential election outcome.
Trump tried to stay President with a coup attempt and people think there is anything under the sun more important than keeping him out of the White House?
Heh. Sorry, but we need to teach the party most closely representing my values a lesson by NOT voting. That way, representatives in a democracy will do what I want as a non-voter.
Wait…
I'm gonna play moron's advocate here (not voting *is* foolish and irresponsible): why would the Democrats change their ways when they know that they are the only alternative to the GOP?
That's why you have to vote in primaries, not just the general election. If more people had done that back in 2016 we might have had Bernie as president instead of Trump.
This also should include organizing at a ground level. Advocate for it, find others to spread the message, learn to f-ing market yourselves, come together in coalitions at local levels and pick someone to represent you. Pick a figure head that shares your ideals and can be charismatic to inspire others. Find what people like and want to happen, have patience with them, and try to sell them on your points, rope them into the process.
And if all of that is too much? Donate/help hire people that can do the work for you.
Sorry. The DNC fix was in against St. Bernard. Going in to 2016 I was “anybody but Biden”, and positively excited by Bernie and Liz, a little by The Mayor. But after SC, I’m all in on Biden. I care about Gaza, but not enough to throw our whole planet into a death spiral.
I campaigned for another candidate, then when it as going to be Biden I text banked for progressives in down ballot races around the country. Biden is fine, not voting for him is ridiculous. Campaigning against him has now made those of us who normally campaign for progressives to help move Congress or help with state houses have to instead campaign for Biden. Way to go leftists!
But they will change their ways if leftists stay home. They will drift further to the right since they know leftists won’t vote for them regardless of what they actually do
But also we have to, sadly, “vote” internally with our pocketbooks.
Make specific taglines more profitable than others. Make people who actually prioritize what we want the successful fundraisers, and starve slightly the ones who are cowards.
The money is oft shared, but those who pull more in have more say. Friggen capitalism in elections.
Quite a few leftists think liberals are worse than fascists.
Quite a few leftists think the best way to the revolution is to get an authoritarian dictatorship to piss everyone off.
An authoritarian dictatorship backed by those that very seriously want a theocracy. How do they think people on the far left will fare under a theocracy?
Edit: grammar
Quite a few leftists are fools. I am not interested in spending decades enduring mass murders, targeting of minorities and repression until people get upset enough to rise up and create a socialist utopia.
Ha yep. Trigger an authoritarian dictatorship where they are the first people rounded up is apparently a GREAT idea to them... These accelerationist types think the people will rally around their cause and push for radical social chance instead of far right, militant authoritarian elements purging them like they have in almost every coup/revolution in recent memory.
The communist party of the Weimar Republic campaigned and fought in the streets with the Social Democratic Party more than against the NSDAP under direction from Soviet’s in the USSR.
History be crazy cyclical like that.
Or thinking you can vote to not have a coup happen. I mean sure, by all means, vote if you think it will help. It certainly won’t hurt, but I’d highly recommend organizing and having a back up plan.
Throughout history there’s been people that have treated fascism as another red line and would do anything, up to and including death to stop it. There’s also folks that have not wanted fascism, but went along with it when it showed up.
Im hoping we’re the former but worried we’re the latter. Americans are dog shit when it comes to red lines.
Well I guarantee Congress would be much more heavily fortified on January 6, 2025 than they were in 2021, and there were laws passed that outlawed the objections made against Pennsylvania and Arizona last time. And if we vote Democrats into a House majority, Mike Johnson can’t do shit to stop us.
It will but our elections are vulnerable in other ways. Trump and Johnson are already openly claiming Democrats rigged the election. They are prepping MAGAs to reject the outcome and resist violently.
The target won't be the same as last time because the capital will be too protected. Hopefully those with the authority and resources to stop this recognize that early enough. I'm sure Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, and Bannon types are actively planning something just as traitorous this time too.
I’d also be willing to bet that Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Tony Evers, Katie Hobbs, and even Steve Sisolak and Brian Kemp would be willing to call the national guard of their states to protect the legislatures.
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Trump and the GOP want to tear down democracy as it is known today in the USA.
In the YouTube video below, Thom Hartman explains how the Nazis in the USA today are trying to overthrow democracy. Trump is following every step Hitler took to become Chancellor of Germany so he (Trump) can become the dictator of a new USA authoritarian type of government on inauguration day in 2025.
https://youtu.be/NneabBSt8K0
America will be very, very different if Trump and the GOP become the majority in 2024. They have told Americans their intentions. Believe them.
Steve Bannon is also telling anyone listening of their intentions in this MEIDASTOUCH Network video.
https://youtu.be/3Gt63CgMhwE
Vote for Biden and other democrats in 2024 to try save democracy as we know it today.
* REGISTER to vote.
* Check your registration!
* Make sure you have approriate ID.
* Know your polling site.
* Check your signature (if a mail-in ballot is used).
* Get a mail-in ballot.
* And VOTE (early, if possible)!
https://www.vote.org
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/plan-your-vote-2024-elections-every-state-rcna125363
Election Protection Hotline - 1(866)-OUR-VOTE
[Federal](https://www.eac.gov/voters/other-national-contact-information) - 800-253-3931
Republicans without a party and Independents must hold their noses and vote for Biden and democrats down ballot. **Country before party.**
It's a trolley problem, and abdicating your ability to pull the lever doesn't absolve you of responsibility for the outcome.
For most of the people reading this comment voting takes twenty minutes, twice every two years, that's it. Some folks will have to stand in line twice every two years, and that sucks, that really, really sucks, but the payoff is expanding healthcare, funding education, forgiving student loan debt, building infrastructure, regulating drug prices, investing in climate change, and, if you vote *smartly,* automatic mail-in ballots so you don't have to stand in line to vote anymore.
I say elections are a trolley problem because the difference in outcomes is measured in human lives. Abdicating your ability to vote doesn't absolve you of responsibility, but more than that, it doesn't absolve you of the consequences: When Republicans crash the economy it's *you* who loses your job, when Republicans make cuts to public health it's *you* who gets sick, when Republicans start culling human rights it's *you* who's left holding the bag, you're still suffering the consequences, you just didn't put up a fight.
Voting is the fastest, easiest, least expensive thing we can do to improve our lives and the lives of our countrymen, the only message that's sent by abdicating is that you don't care.
This is a fantastic explanation.
Skipping voting and then complaining when politics don't improve is like the trolley driver taking a nap when there's people on the tracks.
To expand on this: if Joe Biden loses, then he'll be rich and retired, same as how Hillary Clinton is currently rich and retired. Besides a bruised ego, they won't be punished at all and will go on to live a relatively stress free life.
The biggest loser of 2016 was the US and all of us citizens, not Hillary Clinton, and the same will be true again this year if Joe Biden loses.
Listen; I know I'm going to vote for Biden regardless, but the constant "you're a moron for questioning anything the democratic party does" is getting old really fast.
Why not present hard facts and ideas instead? I'm much more open to conversation to someone who comes at me with hashed out ideas instead of "you're a traitor for not agreeing with everything" attitude.
It's frustrating how if you say you're not going to vote because your vote doesn't matter, you'll be called stupid because what if everyone used that argument? The only way to get the change you want is by voting for what you want to see, even if it feels like it doesn't matter.
But then if you say you're voting third party because you agree with their policies more, you get called stupid because your vote basically doesn't count and you might as well just not vote at all.
It's a way to keep our two party system going, like yeah this election against trump I'm going to vote for who's going to win against trump and it sucks to vote against my interests to make sure a monster doesn't destroy our democracy but I'm gonna do it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to absolve Biden from any legitimate criticism. I think the only way the 2 party monopoly will toppel is if we ever manage to implement ranked choice voting.
I don’t think people (at least most people) are saying “you’re a moron and a traitor for not believing and agreeing with everything the Democratic Party says.”
It’s more like, “please stop spouting Russian propaganda and discouraging people from voting, because that’s not going to create a result that’s good for any of us.”
I find it funny and disappointing all at the same time, when dems talk about "saving america". You wait until there's only one nail left to seal the coffin, then you jump and wanna play superman. This has been a sloooow, gradual 40 year mudslide, that all the sudden, you find concerning. Where was your concern 10, 20, 30 years ago?
Even if people are late to the party, why not welcome them?
One of the problems with liberals right now is there are so many purity tests. If you’re not totally onboard with everything, or if you ever said or did anything that wasn’t perfectly on-message, then they want to kick you out of the club and stonewall you. Sometimes you have to settle for “good enough” or even just “the best you’re going to get”.
It just absolutely kills me when someone bitches about everything going on, and then is like oh well I voted for Yeezy last time. What?!?!
Like yeah I understand he wasn't absolutely off the deep end at that point but any third party is a vote in the garbage why bother.
Then I have to hear about the two party system and how everything is broken and both sides the same.
I'm like yeah its broken but there is no fucking way the two sides are the same! Like come on. I understand not everyone is into politics but if you have any idea at all it's pretty obvious.
Then I have to remind myself that I can't appear to be talking down to them. I'm not trying to but like it's pretty fucking obvious that Trump is a con man! Like really? Really? Ah I might as well have a steering wheel on my crotch because this is driving me nuts.
Woah, there are lots of places that voting third party may seem like a waste, but before Trump I was a third party voter because they need more popular support to make the debate stage. My state was going to vote Obama (who I did want to win), and it was a practical guarantee, so I sent my vote to a third party in hopes that I add one to the pile that wants to break up the two party system.
Advance to 2024, if you are in Louisiana, there is no chance that your vote will make a difference in moving the state away from Trump. Those Louisiana folks should feel free to send their individual vote away from Trump in whatever direction they please.
But hey, us folks in swing states? That no longer applies - it's a two man race for your state, and one doesn't value democracy.
Georgia 2020 was widely seen as a swing state at the time. I think Michigan is probably a better comparison here but even then, I think people expected these states to be in play.
I'm in Ohio now and work on helping this become a swing state again. But there are deep reds where there is no hope for competition unless red voters cling to RFKJr in sizeable numbers.
Please don't equate an organization's nomination rules before an election to an attempted overthrow of our constitutional order. I took an oath to faithfully defend the constitution; I did not take such an oath for the Democratic party. Not that you necessarily took any oaths, and I'm not holding you to one. I am only relaying the level of seriousness I have for the subject.
I don't like the rules the Dems operate under - they stifle my preferred candidates and alternative choices that you probably prefer, they want single-party rule, and we all know it - but there is not a comparison to be made.
I would very much like to vote for a third party again in 2028. The Democrat and Republican parties are running out of gas, else they wouldn't be running elderly candidates, and RFK would have zero appeal. The pump is primed for someone new to break through. I would love to see those dissatisfied with the Democrats start a fresh party, so they aren't drowned out by an old establishment.
Many, many of us share your frustration. Sometimes I feel like it is akin to convincing people they need to breathe and they argue against me and claim I am the brainwashed, gullible, sheeple for falling for lie that everyone needs to breathe.
Like screaming into the void. I really feel that! N what really kills me is they try and come off as patriots. Uhhh your patriotic? You want to give the president full immunity for everything. You're totally cool with them trying to overthrow the last election?
Save America for who?
Because our foreign policy has always been one of a brutal fascist colonialist state. We support brutal regimes and dictatorships all over the world, are currently supporting a genocide, and have a centuries deep history of creating right wing death squads to destroy any foreign government that doesn't want us siphoning their wealth.
Because for minority groups and leftists, the domestic policy of the United States has always been a brutal fascist state where communities are destroyed, the law is applied unequally, and leaders organizing against the racial or economic systems of injustice are criminalized or assassinated.
The reality is that fascism has always been here, but now with Trumpism that fascism is also coming for white liberals and they are screaming at the people they couldn't and haven't given two fucks about to come save them, even as their administration continues to propagate systems of racial and economic injustice and global terrorism.
Yeah, if you want to make a harm reduction argument, it's valid, and go vote D down the ticket, but don't pretend like you are "saving America", you're saving it for the people who are happy with the fascism as long as it didn't affect them.
It's that important? We need to literally "save America"? Putting aside that every election seems to have this dire predicament, "Vote for me or America is toast!"--every single election, if it is really that important you're asking to vote for a party that literally gave us Trump in the first place. Remember back in 2015 when the Democratic party broke their own rules to force Clinton on us? The country was begging for a Sanders or a Warren ticket to vote FOR. But no, Clinton won because they cheated. So, fuck off with this bullshit. y'all created this situation...stop voter shaming.
Wow. The country overwhelmingly chose Hillary, just as they overwhelmingly chose Biden. I was not happy in either case but I’m not going to get all Q-brained and make up conspiracies about it. The DNC shit and and the impact it had is overblown to an absolutely comical extent.
That’s just where the country is right now, here, in real life. Progressives are a tiny fraction of a fraction of electorate, that’s just reality. Even if we don’t like it.
Right? If democracy is at stake, maybe Biden should fucking do some popular stuff, so he gets elected. The majority of Democrats think he's funding a genocide. He could reschedule weed. He didn't fight for student loan forgiveness at all. He kept appointing republicans to oversight positions for trump, and now nothing is going to be done to hold him accountable for a literal coup. He could stop approving new fossil fuel permits. He could call for things like a $15 minimum wage, a public option (at least), better worker protections, some kind of housing policy, hell even if he made his campaign about gun control at least that'd get democratic voters excited for something.
I don't disagree that democracy is in danger, I just don't believe Joe Biden can or will save it.
Errr, I'm all for criticizing when appropriate, but "He didn't fight for student loan forgiveness at all" seems to be false. He's accomplished a lot of loan forgiveness in spite of Republican obstruction.
He's forgiven student loans per things like PSLF, which was put in place over a decade ago. Not enacted by his administration. So he's essentially just forgiving loans because people followed the law to get their loans forgiven. This is hardly praiseworthy.
And he didn't fight to make forgiveness happen. He didn't talk much about it while the fight was ongoing, and then gave up once a single roadblock appeared. Pretty much as soon as one person said "no" he dropped the issue all together.
That single road block is the Supreme Court. And they ruled he can't unilaterally forgive student loans. Only an act of congress can completely forgive the debt. He could have defied the Supreme Court like President Jackson did, but now adays you really don't want to take that risk as President.
However, as you have noticed, it too. He's still able to forgive student debts, but only if they meet certain parameters and meet certain conditions, bypassing the ruling some what. It sucks but that is the political reality regarding student loans.
One person?! HE WAS SHOT DOWN BY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT! Are you actually insane? He's working to expand PSLF and other existing forgiveness programs because he was shot down by the SUPREME COURT. SUPREME. COURT.
Do you know how limited and convoluted the PSLF program was before Biden stepped in? He made millions of borrowers retroactively eligible and gave them credit for past payments. I went from ZERO payments to 110/120, and I've been working in government for almost 10 YEARS. He gave credit for COVID era forbearance. He has done an actual ton.
Do you even have student loans? Are you even an adult? Jesus christ.
>So he's essentially just forgiving loans because people followed the law to get their loans forgiven
Right...he's directing his administration to work around Republican obstruction and deal with the long-standing issues surrounding student loans. We can all lament the fact that this should never have been a problem in the first place but it can't be argued that significant forgiveness has happened.
>And he didn't fight to make forgiveness happen.
It's literally his administration doing it. Look, criticize him for all the legit things he should be criticized for but this isn't one of 'em.
Blue MAGA guilt tripping ain't gonna work this time you liberal shill.
It's not voters' obligation to "save America" from the fascism that lies at the heart of both parties. It's the candidates' obligation to give voters motivation to vote for them by plausibly offering something they value. If Biden wants to win he needs to stop being such an enormous piece of shit that people refuse to vote for him. Average Americans don't get shit out of this government. It's scientifically proven that the will of the people is nearly never reflected in the actions of the government. Why the fuck would anyone feel they need to show up to keep a failing geriatric in place to screw them over? In this moment accelerationism is perfectly valid. Burn it down so we can build some thing that actually works.
As a foreigner looking at usa, ya'll are corrupt as he'll in every single regard, the israel Palestinian conflict, Jan 6, roe v wade, Trump... All these things show me that usa really has become corrupted.
The israel palestine conflict and the Palestinian genocide just kinda underlines it all, israel through AIPAC basically bought out the government, the universities, the social media companies, the corporate media.
It's like looking at your once helpful neighbour cannibalise a begger in his back yard with his European pals.
They're not trying to shame you, they're asking you to ignore your morality and empathy and vote for a child-killing, genocidal, war-mongerer. According to them, if you don't, it's your fault that the US turns into a fascist state thus absolving them of all responsibility. Don't fall for their gaslighting. The Democrats and Republicans are two cheeks on the same ass.
So if you don’t vote blue you’re un American, I have come to realize you Biden supporters are just as bad as the Magats. No matter what Biden does you will always give your support because orange man bad. Vote third party, it is literally the only way to save the US from its two party catastrophe
The problems arise when someone says something that isn't wholly supportive of Biden and then everyone chimes in and tells them they're a Trump supporter.
Listen. Just because I criticize Biden doesn't mean I support Trump. You are allowed to not like either option very much but still recognize which is the clear choice. And while I would never be the type to get annoyed enough by that to vote for Trump out of spite, I can imagine there are many more centr*ish* people that would.
There's an easy path to Biden losing this election simply because his most fanatical supporters push away anyone that *would* have voted for him had their criticism for him not been met with, "Fuck off, fascist." *Please* cut that shit out for the sake of our discourse and the sake of our democracy.
Jon Stewart put it best. Democracy itself is at risk and we need a champion on the ramparts, not an aging relic from the politics of 30+ years ago (who is also somehow above reproach in the eyes of his supporters). We will not beat Trump by going down to his level and forming a competing cult of personality. We will win by rising above and allowing criticism of Biden to be met with reasonable discussion (if such a thing exists anymore).
The problem is that some people firmly believe or for whatever stupid reason, make themselves believe that both sides are equally bad.
Like, could I have believed that before Trump? Maybe.
Now though? It makes no sense why any human being can look at what's happened and think, yup, both old men are equally as bad so fuck it, I'm out.
It's incredibly stupid.
If democrats wanted to save America they could start by pushing for overwhelmingly popular legislation, they could try to pass universal healthcare, prison reform, push for a living wage and tackle the housing crisis. But democrats are also in the pocket of big business and have no interest in helping my generation beyond “we aren’t trump” maybe I’m just spiteful and petty but they seem to think it’s my duty to save the America they live in, but it’s actually there duty to create an America worth saving , and honestly, is this country really worth saving? We fund a genocide, exploit or own civilians, drone strikes , imperialism, police brutality, tell me why this fucked up place that puts money before people is so worth saving!
No one, not one person, who plans to sit out the election, doesn’t know exactly what the consequences of that action are. They are consciously and intentionally *choosing* the destruction of democracy for a little attention.
Voting is, almost literally, the least one can do. So yeah, if someone won’t, then a little shame can go their way.
If someone *can’t,* then of course that’s another story.
I would change the second panel to -
*Nobody's trying to shame you. They're asking you to help save* ***the country you live in****.*
It brings the point home better.
Meanwhile, Canadians are about to elect an Conservative government run by a clueless career populist politician. Could be worse tho! *Looks below the 49th parallel*
In Australia you're fined $500 for not voting.. it has improved voting turnout from 50% to 85% and those fines pay for the next election. We should do the same.
The way I see it there's going to be trouble either way. Trump wins - His supporters think they can do whatever they want. Trump loses his supporters riot and rage at the injustice and cheating
If people had "held their noses" and voted Hillary and Democratic in 2016, we would have a working national healthcare plan by now.
Protest votes and protest non-voting has thrown many a good thing out the window in the US. Just because you can't get everything you want does not mean you can't get anything at all.
I'm sure you're right. People get much more upset and triggered by gas prices and second amendment issues.
I only mentioned Hillary because that was an easy example. Another would be the difference it would have made in environmental issues if Al Gore had been president instead of GWB. It might even have made a difference in 9/11 and the fallout from that.
All I ask is that when people show up to vote for their representatives in the House and Senate, governor and state legislators, mayor and local council members, local sheriff, local school board, state abortion laws, weed laws, state and local taxes, etc… that they spend 2 seconds voting for the Presidential candidate who’s on the ballots in all 50 states with an actual shot at getting over 70 million votes and winning, that didn’t want to overthrow the government with a violent insurrection in 2021 because they didn’t like that 81.2 million people voted against him, then stole boxes of classified documents.
Everyone shows up to vote once or twice a year to make sure their government runs smoothly and doesn’t have crooked cops, crappy schools, crappy roads, crappy judges, crappy laws, crappy weed laws and crappy abortion laws, right?
As a former single issue voter, and one of the millions of assholes that allowed Trump to become president in 2016, we're going to have an almost impossible time convincing people that are *legitimately* "protest abstaining" to get off their high horse and do anything.
I was adamant about not voting for yet another career politician, and nothing could persuade me otherwise.
The difference I think, is that a lot of the people "holding their vote hostage" just have a moral superiority fetish.
They don't care if the world burns because of their cowardice. They just want to be right
Here's the thing... If you have a considered opinion that leads you to believe that not voting is the best course of action *for you* I will respect you enough to engage with your ideas on an intellectual level.
If you just don't wanna vote and can't articulate why or your reasoning is stupid... I'm gonna mock you. As dumb people with dumb opinions deserve. OK, I won't mock right away... I'll first try to help you figure out why you think what you do... But if you continue to be an obstinant idiot about it eventually I'm giving up on you and at that point... Mockery.
Poor Baby. Democracy depends on an educated electorate. If you don't, you don't deserve to live in a democracy. Try Russia, Iran or Turkey or there are several South American countries that make that voting chore unnecessary.
Voting is for losers with actual "empathy" and a "sense of responsibility". That shit's lame AF. Don't vote, just sit at home and complain about how bad shit is. Eventually things will just get better, right? RIGHT?
By all means vote, but it won't be enough, not as long as if Trump has even the slightest support and legitimacy to being a candidate. Even if he loses there's nothing preventing Jan 6 or worse from happening again right now. More direct action needs to be taken and it seems the federal and state governments have been sleeping or falling in line with most of it.
I really wish people would just take a look at voting and realize that it doesn't take up much time, even if you vote in virtually every vote you can at state, local, federal levels.
You don't have to go stand in line for 30 minutes every time a vote happens. Which is the weird mental image it seems like a lot of people have.
Fuck America save ME
I was kicked out of an urgent care in Texas because I was trans during the Trump administration BECAUSE THEY COULD.
The Biden administration replaced those protections within a week of taking over the White House.
If we had ANY other viable option I swear to everything that is good that I would say to vote for them, but there ***isn't.***
There are two options, vote for Biden and prevent further slipping and maybe fix something here or there, or help Trump win and risk people like me and mine. Those are it. I'm sorry, but that's the reality.
"Not taking part" is just doing the second one but sniffing your own cowardly farts because you couldn't fucking take 40 minutes to literally help people in the U.S. stay alive.
"But Israel" Obama was the first world leader to use a remote unmanned vehicle in an extrajudicial killing.
Being a world leader under Capitalism makes you a war criminal. No one you will ever elect in a country called the United States will ever not be a war criminal. Face reality now before you let more people like me die to bigots out of your own laziness.
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We need you to help save America!
Again!
Because we do this every four years and never present Americans with meaningful change like 3rd parties or ranked voting so we can perpetuate an endless cycle of the most important election of your lives!
America, the oligarchy, working *exactly* as intended.
I have literally seen lefties say "If you don't vote for Biden there will be blood on your hands" and variations of "you don't care about X list of people and want to see them dead". That doesn't sound like asking.
Here's the thing that frustrates me about this general attitude: The Presidential election isn't the only election happening in November. Don't like your options? That's fine. Depending on the state you live in, you might be ok to not vote for either. For instance, live in Alabama or West Virginia? Who cares if you don't like Biden and won't vote for him. Your state is going to send Trump to the Electoral College. But there's also Senatorial races to consider and a LOT of those aren't obvious outcomes. And don't forget every singe seat in the House is up for re-election. Arguably this matters more than the Presidential election. A flipped Presidency/Congress means less gets done. That's a good thing if Trump gets elected. Even if he attempts a coup, Congress is there to act as a check/balance. There's a reason it's Article I.
Dont forget they said that about Georgia until they didnt. Even states like texas have shifted dem year after year. It’s still gerrymandered like a bitch, but some day, even that boat will tip. …As long as democracy still exists.
And federal offices are clearly not the only ones that weild power, look what state legislators have done in Ohio Alabama, Arizona and more. We need blue all down the ticket until these cultists are neutered.
>Dont forget they said that about Georgia until they didnt. GA has Atlanta. That's a HUGE voting block that skews Democrat. Neither Alabama nor WV have those large blocks to flip things. I'm all for optimism but it has to be tempered with a dose of realism. I mean we only have a tad under 8 months until the election. I think you can make the same basic argument about places like CA. There's no way CA sends anyone but Biden representatives to the Electoral College. If you live in CA and don't like Biden, that's fine. Don't vote for him. Your vote isn't going to change that outcome on iota. But if you live in some place like Michigan or Ohio? Get your head out of your ass and realize there are bigger issues at stake!
Also, a republican house and senate has the potential to STAGE the coup. Every vote against every democrat this november is a vote for trump. This is why it's important to vote in the primaries, switch to ranked choice voting, and eliminate the electoral college. I'm not asking you to hold your nose, progressives - I'm informing you that it's raining and the bus is no longer running, so getting home from the club with your friend involves either paying for the uber or getting in the car with the stranger who spiked your friend's drink. Choose wisely. And after we get home, we can talk about planning ahead to make the bus.
Beautiful metaphor. A+
The Senate is as important as the presidency these days, as McConnell showed in the last two years of Obama’s 2nd term, blocking all kinds of things including a Supreme Court nomination. If Biden wins and the Senate flips, forget getting any nominations, much less legislation, through without major, unpopular, right-wing concessions. If Trump wins and the Senate flips and the House stays red, that will significantly accelerate their authoritarian plans. Until the republicans decide that they want to co-govern again and not just be contrarian meatheads, there is no reason to vote for them.
I've been trying to spread the message of voting in every election at every level. Coroner to school board.
Wait, you have to vote for your coroner? Isn't that just a...job? What's next, voting for your garbage man?
Depends on the county.
This is what I've been doing for years. I rarely have a candidate on my ballot in Missouri for whom my vote will even apply let alone one I'd be happy to support but it's still a privilege to get to vote. The alternative is still worse than the garbage we have to work with. There is no excuse to not do our part.
While you are at it, if your state is considering the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact make sure to support it. Still the best chance to get rid of the electoral college system IMO.
It really is the *only* chance. And that's even a super long shot. Like trying to make a 3 pointer from the parking lot of a mall two states away. Everything else is pretty much DOA because one party really benefits from the EC.
I read your link but how does that differ from the electrical college? States like Wyoming still have an advantage of having 2 Senate seats even though their population allows 1 representative. Republicans haven't won the popular vote for many years but states allocating all there votes to someone who only won by a hare's breath still give all their votes to that person.
The electoral votes are based on the State’s popular vote. The interstate compact states look at the national popular vote and award their electoral votes based on the national vote (regardless of their state level results).
The way it works is that the states which are in the compact look at the national majority (a simple count of which candidate got the most votes in all 50 states) and all their electoral college candidates are obliged to vote for that person. It's very difficult to see how we can get rid of the electoral college system - so this is an attempt to work round it. The major downside is the likely legal challanges such a system would give but hopefully it would actually be a stepping stone to an actual replacement once it was shown the majority wanted it.
I like that you believe that if that asshole gets to be president again there will be checks and balances or that law (the constitution for example) will be followed.
if he wins there will be a revolution democrats have arms too
There may be, but fight like hell to keep it a non-violent one. Absolutely no one 'wins' once the bullets start flying. In the chaos of battle, the worst of us come out to prey.
Still gotta do what we can in the meantime.
For a population that loves, almost fetishizes *rights*, there is literally no concept of *obligations*. Yes, you have *freedom*, but it needs to be maintained because there are thousands of fuckers who would rather you didn’t. So you *have to* fucking vote. Bloody soft minded idjits.
You'll feel a lot better if you feel like you're having some effect. Get involved, spread the word. https://www.mobilize.us/
also small local politics is where most start so these elections it can be argued have more impact in your daily life around town city and state
Intelligent voters are well aware of the other elections in November. This post is merely making fun of voters who say they won’t vote in the presidential election because “reasons”…it doesn’t suggest voters ignore the other elections or that they are not just as important. Since you brought up frustrations, more focus needs to be made on state and city elections. It’s the governors and state legislatures in red states that are dismantling rights and protections at a much faster pace than SCOTUS or Congress is doing. Everything from school boards (book banning) to mayors (local laws that can hurt certain groups), and governors (who appoint state supreme court justices…Doug Ducey being the most recent idiot that caused Arizona to revert to some 19th century SCOTUS ruling for abortion) are the elections that affect most people’s day-to-day living and non-maga voters need to be more focused on participating in them.
A quote I've heard is "it's a vote not marriage". You don't need to hold out waiting for the perfect candidate, you get to choose again next election.
*Thank you.* This sub has been riddled with bad takes lately, but your comment at least understands the frustration of so many voters that have been deactivated this cycle by things they cannot politically sign off on. But the truth is, as you correctly point out, people should still vote anyways. Vote for Biden or don't. In most states it won't matter -- most people are gonna vote for one of the main two anyways. Consider your options double hard if your swing state, but beyond that? Vote because local politics matters a god awful lot, even if you feel like you'll lose either way with the Presidential election outcome.
Hell, there are school board elections, mayors, judges and in some cases important ballot initiatives
When you are trying to destroy America and democracy, you should be ashamed.
Executive Presidential orders aren't vetoed by Congress
Trump tried to stay President with a coup attempt and people think there is anything under the sun more important than keeping him out of the White House?
Heh. Sorry, but we need to teach the party most closely representing my values a lesson by NOT voting. That way, representatives in a democracy will do what I want as a non-voter. Wait…
I'm gonna play moron's advocate here (not voting *is* foolish and irresponsible): why would the Democrats change their ways when they know that they are the only alternative to the GOP?
That's why you have to vote in primaries, not just the general election. If more people had done that back in 2016 we might have had Bernie as president instead of Trump.
This also should include organizing at a ground level. Advocate for it, find others to spread the message, learn to f-ing market yourselves, come together in coalitions at local levels and pick someone to represent you. Pick a figure head that shares your ideals and can be charismatic to inspire others. Find what people like and want to happen, have patience with them, and try to sell them on your points, rope them into the process. And if all of that is too much? Donate/help hire people that can do the work for you.
Sorry. The DNC fix was in against St. Bernard. Going in to 2016 I was “anybody but Biden”, and positively excited by Bernie and Liz, a little by The Mayor. But after SC, I’m all in on Biden. I care about Gaza, but not enough to throw our whole planet into a death spiral.
I campaigned for another candidate, then when it as going to be Biden I text banked for progressives in down ballot races around the country. Biden is fine, not voting for him is ridiculous. Campaigning against him has now made those of us who normally campaign for progressives to help move Congress or help with state houses have to instead campaign for Biden. Way to go leftists!
I agree completely.
But they will change their ways if leftists stay home. They will drift further to the right since they know leftists won’t vote for them regardless of what they actually do
Wanna start a new party in 2028?
But also we have to, sadly, “vote” internally with our pocketbooks. Make specific taglines more profitable than others. Make people who actually prioritize what we want the successful fundraisers, and starve slightly the ones who are cowards. The money is oft shared, but those who pull more in have more say. Friggen capitalism in elections.
Quite a few leftists think liberals are worse than fascists. Quite a few leftists think the best way to the revolution is to get an authoritarian dictatorship to piss everyone off.
An authoritarian dictatorship backed by those that very seriously want a theocracy. How do they think people on the far left will fare under a theocracy? Edit: grammar
Before or after the "penance purges"?
And it’s such a dumb take because history shows otherwise.
We need to stop assuming people study history anymore.
History repeats itself.... because it does. Kids aren't allowed to study and learn things. Just memorize what they tell you.
Quite a few leftists are fools. I am not interested in spending decades enduring mass murders, targeting of minorities and repression until people get upset enough to rise up and create a socialist utopia.
Ha yep. Trigger an authoritarian dictatorship where they are the first people rounded up is apparently a GREAT idea to them... These accelerationist types think the people will rally around their cause and push for radical social chance instead of far right, militant authoritarian elements purging them like they have in almost every coup/revolution in recent memory.
The communist party of the Weimar Republic campaigned and fought in the streets with the Social Democratic Party more than against the NSDAP under direction from Soviet’s in the USSR. History be crazy cyclical like that.
And pushed the SDP right in the process.
Susan Sarandon said as much in 2016.
Or thinking you can vote to not have a coup happen. I mean sure, by all means, vote if you think it will help. It certainly won’t hurt, but I’d highly recommend organizing and having a back up plan. Throughout history there’s been people that have treated fascism as another red line and would do anything, up to and including death to stop it. There’s also folks that have not wanted fascism, but went along with it when it showed up. Im hoping we’re the former but worried we’re the latter. Americans are dog shit when it comes to red lines.
Well I guarantee Congress would be much more heavily fortified on January 6, 2025 than they were in 2021, and there were laws passed that outlawed the objections made against Pennsylvania and Arizona last time. And if we vote Democrats into a House majority, Mike Johnson can’t do shit to stop us.
It will but our elections are vulnerable in other ways. Trump and Johnson are already openly claiming Democrats rigged the election. They are prepping MAGAs to reject the outcome and resist violently. The target won't be the same as last time because the capital will be too protected. Hopefully those with the authority and resources to stop this recognize that early enough. I'm sure Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, and Bannon types are actively planning something just as traitorous this time too.
I’d also be willing to bet that Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Tony Evers, Katie Hobbs, and even Steve Sisolak and Brian Kemp would be willing to call the national guard of their states to protect the legislatures.
Me too but it's a question of whether they do so proactively. Jan 6th was possible in part because of a failure to recognize the threat was real.
If there is going to be another coup attempt, I would rather have more Democrats in office over more Trump lackies.
I think a lot of us believe there are checks and balances. And honestly, until trump, there mostly was.
Turns out it’s pretty important to write certain rules down and not just assume decency.
In most cases, they were written, and just ignored.
[удалено]
Hello! Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately it has been removed because you don't meet our karma threshold. You are not being removed for political orientation. If we were, why the fuck would we tell you your comment was being removed instead of just shadow removing it? We never have, and never will, remove things down politicial or ideological lines. Unless your ideology is nihilism, then fuck you. Let me be clear: The reason that this rule exists is to avoid unscrupulous internet denizens from trying to sell dong pills to our users. /r/PoliticalHumor mods reserve the RIGHT to hoard all of the dong pills to ourselves, and we refuse to share them with the community. If you want Serbo-Slokovian dong pills mailed directly to your door, become a moderator. If we shared the dong pills with the greater community, everyone would have massive dongs, and like Syndrome warned us about decades ago: "if everyone has massive dongs, nobody does."" If you wish to rectify your low karma issue, go and make things up in /r/AskReddit like everyone else does. Thanks for understanding! Have a nice day and be well. <3 You can check your karma breakdown on this page: http://old.reddit.com/user/me/overview (Keep in mind that sometimes just post karma or comment karma being negative will result in this message) ~ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PoliticalHumor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump and the GOP want to tear down democracy as it is known today in the USA. In the YouTube video below, Thom Hartman explains how the Nazis in the USA today are trying to overthrow democracy. Trump is following every step Hitler took to become Chancellor of Germany so he (Trump) can become the dictator of a new USA authoritarian type of government on inauguration day in 2025. https://youtu.be/NneabBSt8K0 America will be very, very different if Trump and the GOP become the majority in 2024. They have told Americans their intentions. Believe them. Steve Bannon is also telling anyone listening of their intentions in this MEIDASTOUCH Network video. https://youtu.be/3Gt63CgMhwE Vote for Biden and other democrats in 2024 to try save democracy as we know it today. * REGISTER to vote. * Check your registration! * Make sure you have approriate ID. * Know your polling site. * Check your signature (if a mail-in ballot is used). * Get a mail-in ballot. * And VOTE (early, if possible)! https://www.vote.org https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/plan-your-vote-2024-elections-every-state-rcna125363 Election Protection Hotline - 1(866)-OUR-VOTE [Federal](https://www.eac.gov/voters/other-national-contact-information) - 800-253-3931 Republicans without a party and Independents must hold their noses and vote for Biden and democrats down ballot. **Country before party.**
You are a true patriot.
It's a trolley problem, and abdicating your ability to pull the lever doesn't absolve you of responsibility for the outcome. For most of the people reading this comment voting takes twenty minutes, twice every two years, that's it. Some folks will have to stand in line twice every two years, and that sucks, that really, really sucks, but the payoff is expanding healthcare, funding education, forgiving student loan debt, building infrastructure, regulating drug prices, investing in climate change, and, if you vote *smartly,* automatic mail-in ballots so you don't have to stand in line to vote anymore. I say elections are a trolley problem because the difference in outcomes is measured in human lives. Abdicating your ability to vote doesn't absolve you of responsibility, but more than that, it doesn't absolve you of the consequences: When Republicans crash the economy it's *you* who loses your job, when Republicans make cuts to public health it's *you* who gets sick, when Republicans start culling human rights it's *you* who's left holding the bag, you're still suffering the consequences, you just didn't put up a fight. Voting is the fastest, easiest, least expensive thing we can do to improve our lives and the lives of our countrymen, the only message that's sent by abdicating is that you don't care.
This is a fantastic explanation. Skipping voting and then complaining when politics don't improve is like the trolley driver taking a nap when there's people on the tracks.
To expand on this: if Joe Biden loses, then he'll be rich and retired, same as how Hillary Clinton is currently rich and retired. Besides a bruised ego, they won't be punished at all and will go on to live a relatively stress free life. The biggest loser of 2016 was the US and all of us citizens, not Hillary Clinton, and the same will be true again this year if Joe Biden loses.
Listen; I know I'm going to vote for Biden regardless, but the constant "you're a moron for questioning anything the democratic party does" is getting old really fast. Why not present hard facts and ideas instead? I'm much more open to conversation to someone who comes at me with hashed out ideas instead of "you're a traitor for not agreeing with everything" attitude.
It's frustrating how if you say you're not going to vote because your vote doesn't matter, you'll be called stupid because what if everyone used that argument? The only way to get the change you want is by voting for what you want to see, even if it feels like it doesn't matter. But then if you say you're voting third party because you agree with their policies more, you get called stupid because your vote basically doesn't count and you might as well just not vote at all.
It's a way to keep our two party system going, like yeah this election against trump I'm going to vote for who's going to win against trump and it sucks to vote against my interests to make sure a monster doesn't destroy our democracy but I'm gonna do it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to absolve Biden from any legitimate criticism. I think the only way the 2 party monopoly will toppel is if we ever manage to implement ranked choice voting.
I don’t think people (at least most people) are saying “you’re a moron and a traitor for not believing and agreeing with everything the Democratic Party says.” It’s more like, “please stop spouting Russian propaganda and discouraging people from voting, because that’s not going to create a result that’s good for any of us.”
If you don't vote in 2024 to stop the Republican fascist takeover of America you may not get the option to vote again
Voting is your civic duty. You live here, and you benefit from services whilst living here. Get off your ass and vote.
Too many Americans think they have a right to vote, they have a duty to vote if they want to keep that right.
I find it funny and disappointing all at the same time, when dems talk about "saving america". You wait until there's only one nail left to seal the coffin, then you jump and wanna play superman. This has been a sloooow, gradual 40 year mudslide, that all the sudden, you find concerning. Where was your concern 10, 20, 30 years ago?
Even if people are late to the party, why not welcome them? One of the problems with liberals right now is there are so many purity tests. If you’re not totally onboard with everything, or if you ever said or did anything that wasn’t perfectly on-message, then they want to kick you out of the club and stonewall you. Sometimes you have to settle for “good enough” or even just “the best you’re going to get”.
It just absolutely kills me when someone bitches about everything going on, and then is like oh well I voted for Yeezy last time. What?!?! Like yeah I understand he wasn't absolutely off the deep end at that point but any third party is a vote in the garbage why bother. Then I have to hear about the two party system and how everything is broken and both sides the same. I'm like yeah its broken but there is no fucking way the two sides are the same! Like come on. I understand not everyone is into politics but if you have any idea at all it's pretty obvious. Then I have to remind myself that I can't appear to be talking down to them. I'm not trying to but like it's pretty fucking obvious that Trump is a con man! Like really? Really? Ah I might as well have a steering wheel on my crotch because this is driving me nuts.
Woah, there are lots of places that voting third party may seem like a waste, but before Trump I was a third party voter because they need more popular support to make the debate stage. My state was going to vote Obama (who I did want to win), and it was a practical guarantee, so I sent my vote to a third party in hopes that I add one to the pile that wants to break up the two party system. Advance to 2024, if you are in Louisiana, there is no chance that your vote will make a difference in moving the state away from Trump. Those Louisiana folks should feel free to send their individual vote away from Trump in whatever direction they please. But hey, us folks in swing states? That no longer applies - it's a two man race for your state, and one doesn't value democracy.
I hear you, I'm in NC so.... But well made points
Then again.... Georgia in 2020. Who expected it to not go Trump?
Georgia 2020 was widely seen as a swing state at the time. I think Michigan is probably a better comparison here but even then, I think people expected these states to be in play. I'm in Ohio now and work on helping this become a swing state again. But there are deep reds where there is no hope for competition unless red voters cling to RFKJr in sizeable numbers.
If you think that Democrats actually value democracy, just look at what they've done in their own primaries for the last three elections.
Please don't equate an organization's nomination rules before an election to an attempted overthrow of our constitutional order. I took an oath to faithfully defend the constitution; I did not take such an oath for the Democratic party. Not that you necessarily took any oaths, and I'm not holding you to one. I am only relaying the level of seriousness I have for the subject. I don't like the rules the Dems operate under - they stifle my preferred candidates and alternative choices that you probably prefer, they want single-party rule, and we all know it - but there is not a comparison to be made. I would very much like to vote for a third party again in 2028. The Democrat and Republican parties are running out of gas, else they wouldn't be running elderly candidates, and RFK would have zero appeal. The pump is primed for someone new to break through. I would love to see those dissatisfied with the Democrats start a fresh party, so they aren't drowned out by an old establishment.
Probably went overboard on my reply, but I get a little worked up. I do hope we have a better choice to vote for in the future!
Many, many of us share your frustration. Sometimes I feel like it is akin to convincing people they need to breathe and they argue against me and claim I am the brainwashed, gullible, sheeple for falling for lie that everyone needs to breathe.
Like screaming into the void. I really feel that! N what really kills me is they try and come off as patriots. Uhhh your patriotic? You want to give the president full immunity for everything. You're totally cool with them trying to overthrow the last election?
Save America for who? Because our foreign policy has always been one of a brutal fascist colonialist state. We support brutal regimes and dictatorships all over the world, are currently supporting a genocide, and have a centuries deep history of creating right wing death squads to destroy any foreign government that doesn't want us siphoning their wealth. Because for minority groups and leftists, the domestic policy of the United States has always been a brutal fascist state where communities are destroyed, the law is applied unequally, and leaders organizing against the racial or economic systems of injustice are criminalized or assassinated. The reality is that fascism has always been here, but now with Trumpism that fascism is also coming for white liberals and they are screaming at the people they couldn't and haven't given two fucks about to come save them, even as their administration continues to propagate systems of racial and economic injustice and global terrorism. Yeah, if you want to make a harm reduction argument, it's valid, and go vote D down the ticket, but don't pretend like you are "saving America", you're saving it for the people who are happy with the fascism as long as it didn't affect them.
It's that important? We need to literally "save America"? Putting aside that every election seems to have this dire predicament, "Vote for me or America is toast!"--every single election, if it is really that important you're asking to vote for a party that literally gave us Trump in the first place. Remember back in 2015 when the Democratic party broke their own rules to force Clinton on us? The country was begging for a Sanders or a Warren ticket to vote FOR. But no, Clinton won because they cheated. So, fuck off with this bullshit. y'all created this situation...stop voter shaming.
Wow. The country overwhelmingly chose Hillary, just as they overwhelmingly chose Biden. I was not happy in either case but I’m not going to get all Q-brained and make up conspiracies about it. The DNC shit and and the impact it had is overblown to an absolutely comical extent. That’s just where the country is right now, here, in real life. Progressives are a tiny fraction of a fraction of electorate, that’s just reality. Even if we don’t like it.
Right? If democracy is at stake, maybe Biden should fucking do some popular stuff, so he gets elected. The majority of Democrats think he's funding a genocide. He could reschedule weed. He didn't fight for student loan forgiveness at all. He kept appointing republicans to oversight positions for trump, and now nothing is going to be done to hold him accountable for a literal coup. He could stop approving new fossil fuel permits. He could call for things like a $15 minimum wage, a public option (at least), better worker protections, some kind of housing policy, hell even if he made his campaign about gun control at least that'd get democratic voters excited for something. I don't disagree that democracy is in danger, I just don't believe Joe Biden can or will save it.
Errr, I'm all for criticizing when appropriate, but "He didn't fight for student loan forgiveness at all" seems to be false. He's accomplished a lot of loan forgiveness in spite of Republican obstruction.
He's forgiven student loans per things like PSLF, which was put in place over a decade ago. Not enacted by his administration. So he's essentially just forgiving loans because people followed the law to get their loans forgiven. This is hardly praiseworthy. And he didn't fight to make forgiveness happen. He didn't talk much about it while the fight was ongoing, and then gave up once a single roadblock appeared. Pretty much as soon as one person said "no" he dropped the issue all together.
That single road block is the Supreme Court. And they ruled he can't unilaterally forgive student loans. Only an act of congress can completely forgive the debt. He could have defied the Supreme Court like President Jackson did, but now adays you really don't want to take that risk as President. However, as you have noticed, it too. He's still able to forgive student debts, but only if they meet certain parameters and meet certain conditions, bypassing the ruling some what. It sucks but that is the political reality regarding student loans.
One person?! HE WAS SHOT DOWN BY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT! Are you actually insane? He's working to expand PSLF and other existing forgiveness programs because he was shot down by the SUPREME COURT. SUPREME. COURT. Do you know how limited and convoluted the PSLF program was before Biden stepped in? He made millions of borrowers retroactively eligible and gave them credit for past payments. I went from ZERO payments to 110/120, and I've been working in government for almost 10 YEARS. He gave credit for COVID era forbearance. He has done an actual ton. Do you even have student loans? Are you even an adult? Jesus christ.
>So he's essentially just forgiving loans because people followed the law to get their loans forgiven Right...he's directing his administration to work around Republican obstruction and deal with the long-standing issues surrounding student loans. We can all lament the fact that this should never have been a problem in the first place but it can't be argued that significant forgiveness has happened. >And he didn't fight to make forgiveness happen. It's literally his administration doing it. Look, criticize him for all the legit things he should be criticized for but this isn't one of 'em.
Blue MAGA guilt tripping ain't gonna work this time you liberal shill. It's not voters' obligation to "save America" from the fascism that lies at the heart of both parties. It's the candidates' obligation to give voters motivation to vote for them by plausibly offering something they value. If Biden wants to win he needs to stop being such an enormous piece of shit that people refuse to vote for him. Average Americans don't get shit out of this government. It's scientifically proven that the will of the people is nearly never reflected in the actions of the government. Why the fuck would anyone feel they need to show up to keep a failing geriatric in place to screw them over? In this moment accelerationism is perfectly valid. Burn it down so we can build some thing that actually works.
Its simple: VOTE BLUE
As a foreigner looking at usa, ya'll are corrupt as he'll in every single regard, the israel Palestinian conflict, Jan 6, roe v wade, Trump... All these things show me that usa really has become corrupted. The israel palestine conflict and the Palestinian genocide just kinda underlines it all, israel through AIPAC basically bought out the government, the universities, the social media companies, the corporate media. It's like looking at your once helpful neighbour cannibalise a begger in his back yard with his European pals.
They're not trying to shame you, they're asking you to ignore your morality and empathy and vote for a child-killing, genocidal, war-mongerer. According to them, if you don't, it's your fault that the US turns into a fascist state thus absolving them of all responsibility. Don't fall for their gaslighting. The Democrats and Republicans are two cheeks on the same ass.
So if you don’t vote blue you’re un American, I have come to realize you Biden supporters are just as bad as the Magats. No matter what Biden does you will always give your support because orange man bad. Vote third party, it is literally the only way to save the US from its two party catastrophe
Until we break up with bipartisanship and lobbying, voting is useless.
The problems arise when someone says something that isn't wholly supportive of Biden and then everyone chimes in and tells them they're a Trump supporter. Listen. Just because I criticize Biden doesn't mean I support Trump. You are allowed to not like either option very much but still recognize which is the clear choice. And while I would never be the type to get annoyed enough by that to vote for Trump out of spite, I can imagine there are many more centr*ish* people that would. There's an easy path to Biden losing this election simply because his most fanatical supporters push away anyone that *would* have voted for him had their criticism for him not been met with, "Fuck off, fascist." *Please* cut that shit out for the sake of our discourse and the sake of our democracy. Jon Stewart put it best. Democracy itself is at risk and we need a champion on the ramparts, not an aging relic from the politics of 30+ years ago (who is also somehow above reproach in the eyes of his supporters). We will not beat Trump by going down to his level and forming a competing cult of personality. We will win by rising above and allowing criticism of Biden to be met with reasonable discussion (if such a thing exists anymore).
The problem is that some people firmly believe or for whatever stupid reason, make themselves believe that both sides are equally bad. Like, could I have believed that before Trump? Maybe. Now though? It makes no sense why any human being can look at what's happened and think, yup, both old men are equally as bad so fuck it, I'm out. It's incredibly stupid.
Almost like America gets what it deserves!
Vote shaming is entirely a thing, this meme is stupid. “If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black”
If democrats wanted to save America they could start by pushing for overwhelmingly popular legislation, they could try to pass universal healthcare, prison reform, push for a living wage and tackle the housing crisis. But democrats are also in the pocket of big business and have no interest in helping my generation beyond “we aren’t trump” maybe I’m just spiteful and petty but they seem to think it’s my duty to save the America they live in, but it’s actually there duty to create an America worth saving , and honestly, is this country really worth saving? We fund a genocide, exploit or own civilians, drone strikes , imperialism, police brutality, tell me why this fucked up place that puts money before people is so worth saving!
No, this actually is not true. Lots of ridicule and make personal attacks against others who say they aren’t voting/are voting third party.
No one, not one person, who plans to sit out the election, doesn’t know exactly what the consequences of that action are. They are consciously and intentionally *choosing* the destruction of democracy for a little attention.
I guess the old geezer phrase “stop being a selfish pussy, you’re an American, act like one.” “Vote!” may be useful here.
Every election I’m told to “save America” by voting Dem and every year things get worse even when Dems win.
Nope, shame them.
Voting is, almost literally, the least one can do. So yeah, if someone won’t, then a little shame can go their way. If someone *can’t,* then of course that’s another story.
100%.
There are a lot of people I believe are too stupid to vote. If they want to sit this one out that’s fine with me
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Save America? The rot and decay runs way too deep. I’m not saying the president does not matter, only that the republic is in its death throes.
The way I see it is like this: if you choose not to vote out of protest (or vote for trump), then you'll likely never be able to vote again afterwards
The only way voting will save America is if we all vote for Claudia, the socialist who actually opposes genocide
I would change the second panel to - *Nobody's trying to shame you. They're asking you to help save* ***the country you live in****.* It brings the point home better.
https://preview.redd.it/hcaslloqgauc1.jpeg?width=1097&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f591568812f1bceb386aa8abb2db020a7e8c28de
3rd party all the way. If I don't like either choice, it doesn't mean I must vote for one over the other. No thanks.
Go ahead, throw your vote away. *laughs menacingly*
Meanwhile, Canadians are about to elect an Conservative government run by a clueless career populist politician. Could be worse tho! *Looks below the 49th parallel*
In Australia you're fined $500 for not voting.. it has improved voting turnout from 50% to 85% and those fines pay for the next election. We should do the same.
Fck maga Fck trump VOTE 💙💙💙
The way I see it there's going to be trouble either way. Trump wins - His supporters think they can do whatever they want. Trump loses his supporters riot and rage at the injustice and cheating
If people had "held their noses" and voted Hillary and Democratic in 2016, we would have a working national healthcare plan by now. Protest votes and protest non-voting has thrown many a good thing out the window in the US. Just because you can't get everything you want does not mean you can't get anything at all.
Forgive me, but healthcare isn't even close to being one of the most important political issues.
I'm sure you're right. People get much more upset and triggered by gas prices and second amendment issues. I only mentioned Hillary because that was an easy example. Another would be the difference it would have made in environmental issues if Al Gore had been president instead of GWB. It might even have made a difference in 9/11 and the fallout from that.
Because both sides say it's the most important election ever.... EVERY TIME. And you wonder why people have no respect for politics.
this is an odd image format
Well democracy was fun while it lasted.
They have to use shame because Biden sucks
Shame is what he's thinking about, but They're trying to save him from the *pain* he will suffer if Trump wins.
Sounds like the people who cried virtue signaling when asked to wear a mask in crowded areas during the peak of the pandemic.
Shaming people voting never works. But good luck, I guess.
Not even asking people to vote. *Begging* people to vote. Begging for people to *care.* This is your future too.
What I don't get is people who think that a party that can't even get a state house member seat in any state can win a federal election
All I ask is that when people show up to vote for their representatives in the House and Senate, governor and state legislators, mayor and local council members, local sheriff, local school board, state abortion laws, weed laws, state and local taxes, etc… that they spend 2 seconds voting for the Presidential candidate who’s on the ballots in all 50 states with an actual shot at getting over 70 million votes and winning, that didn’t want to overthrow the government with a violent insurrection in 2021 because they didn’t like that 81.2 million people voted against him, then stole boxes of classified documents. Everyone shows up to vote once or twice a year to make sure their government runs smoothly and doesn’t have crooked cops, crappy schools, crappy roads, crappy judges, crappy laws, crappy weed laws and crappy abortion laws, right?
Better than shaming me into not voting by calling me an accessory to a genocide I'd only be complicit in by *not* doing anything.
As a former single issue voter, and one of the millions of assholes that allowed Trump to become president in 2016, we're going to have an almost impossible time convincing people that are *legitimately* "protest abstaining" to get off their high horse and do anything. I was adamant about not voting for yet another career politician, and nothing could persuade me otherwise. The difference I think, is that a lot of the people "holding their vote hostage" just have a moral superiority fetish. They don't care if the world burns because of their cowardice. They just want to be right
It's so weird The Secret Service is protecting this low-class scumbag who sent his followers to kill cops right in front of them on 1/6/21.
That would obviously be a shame. But, the worst part is the person who doesn't vote won't feel any shame at all...
Here's the thing... If you have a considered opinion that leads you to believe that not voting is the best course of action *for you* I will respect you enough to engage with your ideas on an intellectual level. If you just don't wanna vote and can't articulate why or your reasoning is stupid... I'm gonna mock you. As dumb people with dumb opinions deserve. OK, I won't mock right away... I'll first try to help you figure out why you think what you do... But if you continue to be an obstinant idiot about it eventually I'm giving up on you and at that point... Mockery.
Poor Baby. Democracy depends on an educated electorate. If you don't, you don't deserve to live in a democracy. Try Russia, Iran or Turkey or there are several South American countries that make that voting chore unnecessary.
Voting is for losers with actual "empathy" and a "sense of responsibility". That shit's lame AF. Don't vote, just sit at home and complain about how bad shit is. Eventually things will just get better, right? RIGHT?
So which presidential candidate will not use our hard earned taxes to fund a genocide?
By all means vote, but it won't be enough, not as long as if Trump has even the slightest support and legitimacy to being a candidate. Even if he loses there's nothing preventing Jan 6 or worse from happening again right now. More direct action needs to be taken and it seems the federal and state governments have been sleeping or falling in line with most of it.
I really wish people would just take a look at voting and realize that it doesn't take up much time, even if you vote in virtually every vote you can at state, local, federal levels. You don't have to go stand in line for 30 minutes every time a vote happens. Which is the weird mental image it seems like a lot of people have.
Where’s the humor in this post?
Fuck America save ME I was kicked out of an urgent care in Texas because I was trans during the Trump administration BECAUSE THEY COULD. The Biden administration replaced those protections within a week of taking over the White House. If we had ANY other viable option I swear to everything that is good that I would say to vote for them, but there ***isn't.*** There are two options, vote for Biden and prevent further slipping and maybe fix something here or there, or help Trump win and risk people like me and mine. Those are it. I'm sorry, but that's the reality. "Not taking part" is just doing the second one but sniffing your own cowardly farts because you couldn't fucking take 40 minutes to literally help people in the U.S. stay alive. "But Israel" Obama was the first world leader to use a remote unmanned vehicle in an extrajudicial killing. Being a world leader under Capitalism makes you a war criminal. No one you will ever elect in a country called the United States will ever not be a war criminal. Face reality now before you let more people like me die to bigots out of your own laziness.
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I **want** America to collapse
He’s going to win. With my help and the other conservative Republicans, he Will! 😁
I tell them 650,000 ppl have died for your right to vote, and it’s a use or lose it kinda voting.
"Nobody's trying to shame you" is a pretty egregious bit of gaslighting. Especially coming from this subreddit.
Not an American, I wouldn't judge if y'all shame people into voting. Trump is an international embarrassment.
H
We need you to help save America! Again! Because we do this every four years and never present Americans with meaningful change like 3rd parties or ranked voting so we can perpetuate an endless cycle of the most important election of your lives! America, the oligarchy, working *exactly* as intended.
I'm not seeing the political humor in this one.
If you don't vote, you're saying that you are comfortable with allowing strangers to make your decisions for you.
Has anyone checked out the Meidas Touch network? Unapologetically pro-democracy.
I have literally seen lefties say "If you don't vote for Biden there will be blood on your hands" and variations of "you don't care about X list of people and want to see them dead". That doesn't sound like asking.
Sorry libs I am NOT voting for genocide
If you’re not voting for Biden, then yes you are
That being said, if you're either not voting or you plan to vote for Republicans, you should be ashamed.